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Artistic Gymnastics: Stick the Landing!

HartofDixie

By HartofDixie
in 2016 Olympics

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Rinaldo

Rinaldo

42 minutes ago, Daisy said:

USA won their qualifaction so they are in. 
it's USA / Japan / GBR / Brazil. ...

Daisy, you were so helpful before, I'm asking again. (Honest, I searched a lot online. There are plenty of Wikipedia pages with charts ready to enter rankings, and talk about rule changes for 2020, but not much explaining how it works now.) What does it mean to "win their qualification"? Highest team score? But how can they be certain no team yet to come will have a higher total? What is the specified procedure?

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GreyBunny
GreyBunny

Gabby has worked her ass off for years, has been a proud member of the US team, and is a great role model for young kids who are up and coming. To say that her not putting her hand over her heart nega

KBrownie
KBrownie

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walnutqueen
walnutqueen

Protocol is not law, and has nothing to do with being an American.  Fortunately, Americans live in a free country where they have the right to disagree with your sentiments and still be Americans (and

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Daisy

Daisy

Just now, Rinaldo said:

Daisy, you were so helpful before, I'm asking again. (Honest, I searched a lot online. There are plenty of Wikipedia pages with charts ready to enter rankings, and talk about rule changes for 2020, but not much explaining how it works now.) What does it mean to "win their qualification"? Highest team score? But how can they be certain no team yet to come will have a higher total? What is the specified procedure?

Okay so there are 12 teams that qualified.
and there are some "teams" that  are mixed. (that is - people who have qualified but have no team)

there are eight teams that qualify for the finals. (I don't even know why they don't stick to the old way - where they would have team finals - and you'd have 12  (or just 6 best), and it's done. this way you have no teams waiting, but i digress). 

since there are 3 qualification groups - if you "win qualification" (this is my term albeit) - there's no way you're going to drop out of the top eight. so Japan, (was 1st after their first 6 rotations) and the United States (who was 1st in theirs). if (or rather, when) China wins theirs, that's your top 3. 

everyone else will slot in after Brazil and Great Britain and that's where the scores come in.  - Great Britain SHOULD be okay (as should Brazil) because they had high scores - but anything can happen. 

though you can argue - that USA and Japan could also be 7-8 if the six teams in the final qualification completely kick ass (knocking out Brazil + GBR) but that is very unlikely. so ultimately. Being first in qualification more than likely secures your spot in team finals. 
 

you can also apply this logic for All Around as well as Event Finals :)

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Daisy

Daisy

4 minutes ago, Rinaldo said:

OK! That's absolutely the clearest I've seen it laid out. Thank you so much.

Actually, if I understand correctly, even if USA and Japan (against all probability) are surpassed by the six teams in Group 3, they still have slots 7 and 8, and hence are assured of the finals. Am I right?

you are so welcome - and you are right. 
basically, the only three teams who can rest easy is USA, Japan, and the team that is 1st after the final flight of teams. everyone else will be sorted due to final scorings. 

greendog78

greendog78

1 minute ago, kittykat said:

Do we know which two are going to AA yet?  Sam and Jake? Sam and Danell?  Did Naddour make PH finals?  I didn't catch much after the first group (errands) or are we still waiting for group 3 to finish?

Sam and Chris Brooks are doing AA. Naddour will get bumped after this group. His score isn't high enough.

Daisy

Daisy

2 minutes ago, PoshSprinkles said:

@Daisy Nope. They only have one athlete competing. They didn't qualify to send an entire team. The same thing happened to the women. There was a huge to-do about sending Catalina Ponor over Larisa Iorache as their sole representative. 

Holy Moses. No Romania... 
it's really more stunning too because it's the 40th anniversary of Nadia's perfect 10's so that must be so doubly hard that they are only sending 2 athletes period when they used to be a powerhouse. 

kittykat

kittykat

(edited)
3 minutes ago, greendog78 said:

Sam and Chris Brooks are doing AA. Naddour will get bumped after this group. His score isn't high enough.

That's too bad.  I was hoping we'd see some US representation in PH.  Thanks for clarifying.  Glad Sam (and hopefully Chris) are looking good.

Sad about the Romanians.  Good to see Marian and Catalina still competing.  They always had gorgeous routines.

Edited by kittykat
Daisy

Daisy

just as a as you know for those who don't really watch or wondering what we're talking about. 

The Vault (well all equipment) have a basic standard. You can adjust some of them (ie: uneven bars for your height etc), but things like the vault is standard height and it needs to be at a certain tension. You can adjust the the springboard though (to compensate for your length) in order to perform the element

If you see the mat you see there are 3 green lines. Ideally, a good vault means you land in the middle. if you fall back (or forward) generally speaking that's a "good" thing - you're just under rotated or over rotated (and you can adjust that with training). 

to fall to the side, it means you aren't hitting the horse properly. If it was just one or two people - you can say that's gymnast error. but when it's almost every single gymnast, it could mean that the vault is not adjusted properly (height or tension) and so you can hit it wrong, and everything is off - forcing the gymnast to over compensate and hit left and right - and then forward.. 

The best and infamous example is the Sydney Olympics in the women's All Around. they went through podium training, warm-ups, and 1.5 rotations before a gymnast (from Australia natch) went. "this is wrong, it feels too low". (which it was). but the damage was done already. As podium training has shown that many gymnasts have been going towards the side - and we've seen it this entire match - someone needs to be saying something. (or i would). 

 

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kili

kili

If the vault is adjusted to the wrong height or tension (or whatever else is configurable), that seems kind of dangerous (and if that contributed to what happened to that French guy's leg, then it is definitely dangerous). So, it seems like if it is wrong, it should be adjusted to be correct.

But, if the adjustment is corrected, it seems like that would be unfair to those that performed already on the incorrectly adjusted vault. Would they have higher scores if the vault had been right from the start? So, adjusting mid-competition seems unfair. Can people opt to try their vault again or are they just out of luck? 

How is the height ever wrong? "You had one job." Tension seems more easy to get wrong.

Does the vault score today get considered in the finals? Sorry, noob question.

Daisy

Daisy

3 minutes ago, kili said:

If the vault is adjusted to the wrong height or tension (or whatever else is configurable), that seems kind of dangerous (and if that contributed to what happened to that French guy's leg, then it is definitely dangerous). So, it seems like if it is wrong, it should be adjusted to be correct.

But, if the adjustment is corrected, it seems like that would be unfair to those that performed already on the incorrectly adjusted vault. Would they have higher scores if the vault had been right from the start? So, adjusting mid-competition seems unfair. Can people opt to try their vault again or are they just out of luck? 

How is the height ever wrong? "You had one job." Tension seems more easy to get wrong.

Does the vault score today get considered in the finals? Sorry, noob question.

In 2000, anyone who was affected by the bad vault were allowed to re-compete. but the damage was already done. Svetlana Khorkina was already rattled by her fall, and she fell on the bars. (this was literally during the realization that they screwed up, and they were allowing others to compete). Tim Daggett was apoplectic (as was I), and was like - if it was up to him you cancel the meet, you reschedule, there are rest days - but there should be no excuses for having A: something like that happening at the Olympics, and B: this impacting all the gymnasts. 

The vault score today is considered in the finals in the sense - that - you make the EF (event finals) AA (all around) or team. so it matters. but it doesn't carry over if that's what you mean. 

And generally speaking if they were to do it now it's just too bad, so sad. but they better as heck be on their game for tomorrow and Team Finals, etc. 

To me - it just looks off. A Lot of gymnasts aren't hitting it flush. But I would also not expect them to be all "hey - maybe it's off." a lot of people would go "its' nerves" or "its bad luck." like the only reason the Sydney ones was so infamous was that while others said it "felt wrong."  - it was Alana Slater (from Australia) who basically copped a fit and said no - something is wrong with the vault, check it - and they almost didn't. (because technically - due to the standards, why would it be wrong?)

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Black Knight

Black Knight

Yes, I remember watching Sydney coverage, and the U.S. coach telling the person who had come around asking if anyone wanted to do their vault over that Kristen Maloney did not and Elise Ray did.

And I vividly remember watching when Svetlana Khorkina, who as noted upthread had already blown it on bars in the interim, was approached to be informed about the vault. The announcer intoned, "And the news reaches Khorkina..." - and then NBC cut to commercial! Stupid NBC. Khorkina wasn't dubbed the Mad Stork for nothing, and I wanted to see her pitch the (deserved) fit she no doubt pitched.

I also remember reading that a Japanese gymnast thought something was wrong with the vault's height, but her coach told her to shut up and get back in line. So it took the Australian gymnast being stubborn before anyone actually did check it.

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Daisy

Daisy

Ukraine and France are now 7th-8th. Switzerland is 10th. 
USA - still #1 over China. 
LOL I can hear the tape delay of Tim Dagget now. 

but honestly, that should be HUGE motiviation for them. China  crashing and burning, Japan crashed and burned - and they were relatively steady. repeat that, they TOTALLY get a medal.. and imagine if it were Gold. 

Dots And Stripes

Dots And Stripes

I'm happy for Danell Leyva. Going from not making the team to qualifying for 2 (that I noticed) event finals. I feel like NBC may need to come up with another storyline other than the USA is all about Sam Mikulak. He may be the best all around the U.S. Men have but he doesn't exactly appear to be the star they were hoping for.

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legaleagle53

legaleagle53

Just now, kittykat said:

Alright. Naddour in PH final.  Danell made finals for both bars, Sam and Jake finished 1-2 for FE.  Brooks and Sam in AA and 2nd for team.  Fantastic day for US.  

And a lot better than I think anyone expected for the US men, given the fact that the US men have had a history of imploding in recent years.  Keep up the good work, gentlemen!

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DawnDavenport

DawnDavenport

59 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

Yeah, what's up with China on the floor? Very uncharacteristic. 

It's not really surprising. The Chinese teams are known to be very inconsistent. Remember '96? They melted down on HB. They watered down in Sydney and took advantage of other team's mistakes there. They were supposed to battle the US for team gold in '04 and melted down and finished 5th in team finals and Japan won with the US second. Of course they had to win in '08. Without those huge scores on Parallels Bars and Rings with their specialist, they probably would have only qualified 4th or 5th. 

I'm glad we only have to endure their gymnasts on Rings and Pbars, I've never really cared for them or their gymnasts.

I just hope that the US not finishing first after Quals means they won't have a meltdown light London and can perhaps medal. It appears it's going to be a good Men's competition this year with China Japan, Russia, US, and Great Britain all in the mix. 3 up 3 count certainly makes things more interesting.

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