Season 7: Speculation and Spoilers Discussion

[Raachel2008]

I don't think the show will ever adress Nissa Nissa/Azor Ahai; it took them all that time to explain PWWP to the general audience; they don't have the time - or the desire, IMO - to do that to AA and NN. I believe the only prophecy from the books they may revisit is the valonqr.

3 hours ago, SimoneS said:

compared to real life punishments for treason against the crown in Europe before the 19th century.

Except Dany is not the crown, she is the invader. So if you are a Lannister bannerman, if you are a soldier there, Danaerys Targaryen is not the queen, she is not the queen; she is the enemy who came overseas. So, I don't think treason is the right word here.

Speaking about Jamie/Bronn, I was surprised with how so many people wanted Bronn dead. Not "the character has run its course", but dead dead dead.

[Minneapple]

3 hours ago, SimoneS said:

Throughout history, all absolute queens, kings, empresses, emperors, etc. Daenerys is better than most. From the promo, she is giving the Lannister bannermen a second chance to bend the knee.  They refused to answer her call to attend her at Dragonstone, they just killed her allies, and stole gold and food. They are lucky she didn't burn all to a crisp instantly which would be a good death compared to real life punishments for treason against the crown in Europe before the 19th century.

 

Yeah, lucky. Well, now they have lost and they're just standing there as she smiles calmly and tells them she'll roast them alive. That's a little scary. Is there no middle ground, like hey let's take some political prisoners and treat them well and not threaten to kill them?

[SeanC]

5 minutes ago, Raachel2008 said:

Except Dany is not the crown, she is the invader. So if you are a Lannister bannerman, if you are a soldier there, Danaerys Targaryen is not the queen, she is not the queen; she is the enemy who came overseas. So, I don't think treason is the right word here.

Treason is in the eye of the beholder.  Dany's campaign is based on her family's claim to the throne of Westeros, and anybody who denies that claim is in rebellion against her (effectively, this is a continuation of Robert's Rebellion in that regard).

[SimoneS]

7 minutes ago, Minneapple said:

Yeah, lucky. Well, now they have lost and they're just standing there as she smiles calmly and tells them she'll roast them alive. That's a little scary. Is there no middle ground, like hey let's take some political prisoners and treat them well and not threaten to kill them?

Usually, there is no the middle ground with treachery, but maybe Daenerys will surprise.

Edited August 7, 2017 by SimoneS

[Raachel2008]

1 hour ago, SeanC said:

Treason is in the eye of the beholder.  Dany's campaign is based on her family's claim to the throne of Westeros, and anybody who denies that claim is in rebellion against her (effectively, this is a continuation of Robert's Rebellion in that regard).

True, which is just what I said. For them  it is not treason.

[MarySNJ]

On 8/5/2017 at 8:13 PM, YaddaYadda said:

This is why I'm bugged by Mel's "I brought ice and fire together."

No, you charlatan, you did not. Even The Hound reads the flames better than that! 

LOL Mel has an inflated sense of rectitude. She is able to See in the flames, but her problem is that she's a true believer who thinks she sees things clearly, makes up her mind and consequently doesn't bother to consider that her interpretation may not be the only valid one. She was so sure that Stannis was the one. Consequently, in her rigid surety, she tried to force the Lord of Light to cause something to happen, and sacrificed a child to flames which instead caused Stannis's defeat. She learned a hard lesson about her own failings and admitted a terrible mistake to Varys - too late for poor Shireen, but that's what it took for her to consider that maybe she's not so good at interpreting what the flames are showing her.  By contrast, Thoros admitted to having lost faith in R'hollor completely, until his friend was killed, in desperation he asked the LoL to save his friend, and brought back by Beric by a miracle (Apparently "Please" is the magic word). 

In any case, Melisandre does not know that Jon is a half Targ; half fire. Everyone "knows" that Jon is Ned Stark's bastard son which makes him the ice to Dany's  fire. The flames apparently aren't telling her that there is a reason to question Jon's parentage, or that Jon is both ice and fire, she just knows that ice and fire need to come together and assumes that means Jon, who the LoL resurrected, and Dany, Mother of Dragons. I actually think that's a reasonable assumption given what everyone "knows" at this point.

 I noticed that she didn't switch sides again and say that Dany is surely the one; she said Dany has a role to play "as does another". She did bring the news that Jon is KitN, and Tyrion recommended that Dany reach out to him as a potential ally. 

[Oscirus]

So this is the last week of the war until season 8. I wonder how they're going to justify the hard turn like that. It goes from invade to fighting the white walkers like that.

Also, the Lannister Males get downright suicidal the rest of this season. It started last show but it continues till the very end.

[SimoneS]

After looking at the preview for next week, I think that the "she" Varys was referring to is Cersei, not Daenerys. I really hope that scenes plays out better than the leaks which suggestion immense stupidity from both Tyrion and Varys.

[anamika]

11 hours ago, Minneapple said:

Yeah, lucky. Well, now they have lost and they're just standing there as she smiles calmly and tells them she'll roast them alive. That's a little scary. Is there no middle ground, like hey let's take some political prisoners and treat them well and not threaten to kill them?

Again, Sansa wanted to punish the children of the people who sided against them to make a point.  Dany is giving her ultimatum to the actual traitors - people who betrayed the Tyrells and ransacked the Reach. As Jon said, the punishment for treason is death.  A little demo and they will all be bending the knee soon enough.

It's funny though that Jon is escaping the 'Bend the Knee or I am going to roast you' talk. As Dany mentioned last episode, he is also in open rebellion against her.  But he seems to be enjoying a vacation on the beach which has made Davos positively chipper!

5 hours ago, SimoneS said:

After looking at the preview for next week, I think that the "she" Varys was referring to is Cersei, not Daenerys. I really hope that scenes plays out better than the leaks which suggestion immense stupidity from both Tyrion and Varys.

Yeah, that's definitely Cersei they are talking about as per the leaks. Tyrion and Varys being worried about Dany is just there for some contrived drama and conflict. Nothing is going to come from it because from the look of things, the focus is going to shift to Eastwatch next episode - and then it's Dany fully pledging herself to the WW conflict.

Edited August 8, 2017 by anamika

[glowbug]

32 minutes ago, anamika said:

Again, Sansa wanted to punish the children of the people who sided against them to make a point.  Dany is giving her ultimatum to the actual traitors - people who betrayed the Tyrells and ransacked the Reach. As Jon said, the punishment for treason is death.  A little demo and they will all be bending the knee soon enough.

It's funny though that Jon is escaping the 'Bend the Knee or I am going to roast you' talk. As Dany mentioned last episode, he is also in open rebellion against her.  But he seems to be enjoying a vacation on the beach which has made Davos positively chipper!

Yeah, that's definitely Cersei they are talking about as per the leaks. Tyrion and Varys being worried about Dany is just there for some contrived drama and conflict. Nothing is going to come from it because from the look of things, the focus is going to shift to Eastwatch next episode - and then it's Dany fully pledging herself to the WW conflict.

I think Jon is escaping dragon fire because while he's refused to bend the knee he hasn't actually attacked her or one of her allies and clearly has no interest in doing so. Tyrion also thinks highly of him and believes he would make a good ally. She's also starting to like him the more time they spend together which reinforces the idea that it would be better to try to convince him to bend the knee than roast him for not doing so already. There's really no down side to keeping him alive for the time being while killing him would probably provoke the north into attacking her. 

Edited August 8, 2017 by glowbug

[Minneapple]

Just now, anamika said:

Again, Sansa wanted to punish the children of the people who sided against them to make a point.  Dany is giving her ultimatum to the actual traitors - people who betrayed the Tyrells and ransacked the Reach. As Jon said, the punishment for treason is death.  A little demo and they will all be bending the knee soon enough.

It's funny though that Jon is escaping the 'Bend the Knee or I am going to roast you' talk. As Dany mentioned last episode, he is also in open rebellion against her.  But he seems to be enjoying a vacation on the beach which has made Davos positively chipper!

What does Sansa have anything to do with this? Did she suggest roasting the children alive? 

Jon has surrendered his weapons and is basically a prisoner at Dragonstone. He doesn't think he's in open rebellion; he's been chosen by his people as King in the North. Dany thinks the Seven Kingdoms are hers by birthright. Treason is in the eye of the beholder. Neither is right or wrong and this conversation has been beaten to death more than the damn horse. Whatever. I don't care anymore. 

This is what annoys me more:

Missandei (to Davos and Jon in 7x04): Dany is the best, we can leave any time we want, we follow her because she's kind and awesome.
Dany (in 7x05 promo): This isn't murder. But bend the knee or die!

So. Dany's going to give everyone a little Drogon demo and rule through fear and death, but she's a nice queen who lets anyone leave whenever they want! This does not compute. It makes no sense. It is bad writing, or the writers are trying to misdirect us in some way. It's probably just bad writing since, you know. This show, these writers.

[anamika]

48 minutes ago, glowbug said:

I think Jon is escaping dragon fire because while he's refused to bend the knee he hasn't actually attacked her or one of her allies and clearly has no interest in doing so. Tyrion also thinks highly of him and believes he would make a good ally. She's also starting to like him the more time they spend together which reinforces the idea that it would be better to try to convince him to bend the knee than roast him for not doing so already. There's really no down side to keeping him alive foe the time being while killing him would probably provoke the north into attacking her. 

Yeah, her treatment of Jon is actually reasonable and shows Dany to be a sensible person - she's not burning down her enemies willy nilly like the mad king did. There's sound reasoning behind her actions - which is why it would be annoying if Tyrion really compares her to her father for burning the Tarlys.

19 minutes ago, Minneapple said:

What does Sansa have anything to do with this? Did she suggest roasting the children alive?

No, Sansa suggested stripping away the homes of the children after their fathers had already been killed for treason. She does not want to stop with the actual traitors, but punish their children too. On the other hand, Dany is just executing the actual traitors. So if Dany is cruel for executing traitors, Sansa is much worse for wanting to inflict punishment on innocent children.

Oh, by the way, Sansa also fed a man to hungry dogs, but that's justified because Ramsay deserved it, right? While Randyll Tarly who threatened his own son with death if he did not go to the wall, chained up his son, starved him and maltreated him, wanted to whip soldiers into action and betrayed the Tyrells should be treated well by Dany - otherwise she is cruel.

19 minutes ago, Minneapple said:

So. Dany's going to give everyone a little Drogon demo and rule through fear and death, but she's a nice queen who lets anyone leave whenever they want! This does not compute. It makes no sense. It is bad writing, or the writers are trying to misdirect us in some way. It's probably just bad writing since, you know. This show, these writers.

The dragons are her weapons. She is using it to execute the treasonous traitors who were responsible for her ally Olenna Tyrell dying.

Of course, we are going to hear about how she is a nice queen from the people she freed from slavery.  Just like how we hear about Jon being an awesome guy despite him hanging a 10 year old boy for mutiny and how we have to hear about how clever Sansa is despite doing jack shit for 6 seasons.

Edited August 8, 2017 by anamika

[Oscirus]

4 hours ago, anamika said:

Yeah, her treatment of Jon is actually reasonable and shows Dany to be a sensible person - she's not burning down her enemies willy nilly like the mad king did. There's sound reasoning behind her actions - which is why it would be annoying if Tyrion really compares her to her father for burning the Tarlys.

Taking someone who poses no threat to you prisoner for refusing to bend the knee is not reasonable. If she doesn't want to be compared to her father then don't act like him. If anything, high value targets like  the Tarlys are the people she should be taking prisoner not Jon. 

 

4 hours ago, anamika said:

The dragons are her weapons. She is using it to execute the treasonous traitors who were responsible for her ally 

Word it however you want, she's using them to force people to do her bidding. The very definition of ruling by fear. If she wants to do that, it's fine but then she should stop talking like she's above the fray. If Dany's actions of killing traitors are reasonable then I guess Cersei's actions of killing traitors is reasonable as well?

 

I just realized another unstark like thing by Sansa. " The person who passes the senstence swings the sword." She definitely ain't doing that with Littlefinger :p

Edited August 8, 2017 by Oscirus

[Katsullivan]

16 hours ago, SimoneS said:

After looking at the preview for next week, I think that the "she" Varys was referring to is Cersei, not Daenerys. I really hope that scenes plays out better than the leaks which suggestion immense stupidity from both Tyrion and Varys.

I'm sure it's Cersei. Varys seems to be asking Tyrion to get Cersei to see reason, probably because of the looming WW threat or maybe even to stop Dany from getting madder and unleashing her dragons on the Red Keep.

Let me add here that it's beyond irritating that the only thing stopping Dany from a definitive win is her own "goodness" and that with each moment that she shows Cersei "mercy", Cersei is buying armies and building spiders and becoming more and more of a threat to her.

 

 

 

10 hours ago, anamika said:

Again, Sansa wanted to punish the children of the people who sided against them to make a point.  Dany is giving her ultimatum to the actual traitors - people who betrayed the Tyrells and ransacked the Reach. As Jon said, the punishment for treason is death.  A little demo and they will all be bending the knee soon enough.

What is beyond the pale about Sansa is that she's advocating for the same kind of exile that was inflicted on her when she was held prisoner in King's Landing and couldn't return to Winterfell. She is asking that these children be punished for their fathers's disloyalty, the same way that Joffrey and Cersei punished her for Ned and Robb.

Quote

No, Sansa suggested stripping away the homes of the children after their fathers had already been killed for treason. She does not want to stop with the actual traitors, but punish their children too. On the other hand, Dany is just executing the actual traitors. So if Dany is cruel for executing traitors, Sansa is much worse for wanting to inflict punishment on innocent children.

But, of course, when Sansa punishes children she's "Smart" while Jon is "Foolish" to show mercy. When Dany punishes full-grown men who raised an army to mutineer, murder and rob an old woman, Dany is crazy.

 

10 hours ago, anamika said:

Yeah, her treatment of Jon is actually reasonable and shows Dany to be a sensible person - she's not burning down her enemies willy nilly like the mad king did. There's sound reasoning behind her actions - which is why it would be annoying if Tyrion really compares her to her father for burning the Tarlys.

Anyone who seriously thought that Dany was going to burn Jon because he didn't bend the knee has not been watching this show. 

[SimoneS]

59 minutes ago, Katsullivan said:

I'm sure it's Cersei. Varys seems to be asking Tyrion to get Cersei to see reason, probably because of the looming WW threat or maybe even to stop Dany from getting madder and unleashing her dragons on the Red Keep.

Let me add here that it's beyond irritating that the only thing stopping Dany from a definitive win is her own "goodness" and that with each moment that she shows Cersei "mercy", Cersei is buying armies and building spiders and becoming more and more of a threat to her.

I have been stewing over this since the season started. By preventing Dany from acting decisively now, they have made her responsible for the deaths of thousands of people when she finally confronts Cersei militarily. They have also turned Tyrion and Varys into idiots (and even traitors). I get that the sizes of these armies and fleets change to accommodate the story, but the Lannisters cannot possibly have many soldiers left after that attack last week and the soldiers lost at Casterly Rock so what is the point of attempting to get Cersei to send their men to help fight the NK?  Daenerys can easily take King's Landing in less than a week and then march north with Jon to Winterfell.

I think that Lena Headey and Alfie Allen are talented actors so I understand why D&D want to keep them in the cast, but Cersei and Theon are two characters who have long outlived their purpose in the show. They are jumping through hoops to keep these characters going and weakening the story in the process. I mean, how does a whole fleet manage to sneak up on experienced sailors like Yara and her people? 

Edited August 8, 2017 by SimoneS

[GrailKing]

7 hours ago, Oscirus said:

I just realized another unstark like thing by Sansa. " The person who passes the senstence swings the sword." She definitely ain't doing that with Littlefinger :p

Words are like weapons / Words cut like a knife, etc.

Sansa's swords are her words.

Sansa  did it the Stark way she passed the sentence and she looked into the man's eyes and listened to his words.

[Katsullivan]

9 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

I have been stewing over this since the season started. By preventing Dany from acting decisively now, they have made her responsible for the deaths of thousands of people when she finally confronts Cersei militarily. They have also turned Tyrion and Varys into idiots (and even traitors). I get that the sizes of these armies and ships change to accommodate the story, but the Lannisters cannot possibly have many soldiers left after that attack last week and the soldiers lost at Casterly Rock so what is the point of attempting to get Cersei to send their men to help find the NK?  Daenerys can easily take King's Landing in less than a week and then march north with Jon to Winterfell.

I think that Lena Headey and Alfie Allen are talented actors so I understand why D&D want to keep in the cast, but Cersei and Theon are two characters who have long outlived their purpose in the show. They are jumping through hoops to keep these characters going and weakening the story in the process. I mean, how does a whole fleet manage to sneak up on experienced sailors like Yara and her people? 

If GRRM had written "Spoils of War", Bronn would have run the other way from Dragon fire and Jaime would have died when he charged Drogon - if he wasn't cut down by a Dothraki by fighting with his left hand. The latter most likely because GRRM was a big fan of realistic, unceremonious conclusions like: a one-handed man versus a Dothraki warrior should have only one realistic outcome. Of course, if GRRM was writing this series, Cersei would have been long dead, and we'd be facing the WW as the Big Bad of the story as it's always been set up to be. Instead, apparently, we're going to have to deal with the WW first, then return to Cersei who will probably have developed the ability to shape-shift into a giant Griffin at the rate this story is going. 

They've fallen into all the repetitive tropes that GRRM wrote this story specifically to subvert and what is heartbreaking about all this is that with GRRM writing at the backwards pace he's been going at, this shitty fanfiction (and yes, I used the dirty word) is what we're going to have to accept as canon.

[anamika]

7 hours ago, Oscirus said:

Taking someone who poses no threat to you prisoner for refusing to bend the knee is not reasonable. If she doesn't want to be compared to her father then don't act like him. If anything, high value targets like  the Tarlys are the people she should be taking prisoner not Jon.

Is Jon really a prisoner though? So, if Dany gave him his ship back, he is going to stop mining for dragon glass and leave to go sit in the North with no food, men, or weapons? He is still hanging around to try to convince Dany of the bigger threat up North and get her help. I just don't see Jon as a prisoner anymore, especially after last episode.

3 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

I think that Lena Headey and Alfie Allen are talented actors so I understand why D&D want to keep in the cast, but Cersei and Theon are two characters who have long outlived their purpose in the show. They are jumping through hoops to keep these characters going and weakening the story in the process. I mean, how does a whole fleet manage to sneak up on experienced sailors like Yara and her people? 

I would like to see more of Theon actually. He still has a story that needs to be told. He's such an interesting character in the books, that I am hoping they do more with the character on the show. 

As for Cersei, I think they need her to stay till the very end because she is representative of the 'game' in game of thrones. Who else is left? We already have people complaining about the show becoming too much about magic/fantasy for their tastes with the fight against the WW getting more focus. They need the soap-opera KL drama to keep these folks watching. And that means we are stuck with Cersei and her plot gifts till the very end.

[Katsullivan]

1 minute ago, GrailKing said:

Words are like weapons / Words cut like a knife, etc.

Sansa's swords are her words.

Sansa  did it the Stark way she passed the sentence and she looked into the man's eyes and listened to his words.

That's not the Stark way. That's Cersei Lannister asking for Lady to be killed. 

If anything Cersei death-kissing that Sand Snake herself, and swallowing the antidote seconds later, was a more Stark-like execution than anything Sansa's  done.

[Katsullivan]

8 minutes ago, anamika said:

Is Jon really a prisoner though? So, if Dany gave him his ship back, he is going to stop mining for dragon glass and leave to go sit in the North with no food, men, or weapons? He is still hanging around to try to convince Dany of the bigger threat up North and get her help. I just don't see Jon as a prisoner anymore, especially after last episode.

Dany literally told him "I have an emergency meeting. Make yourself comfortable and we'll talk later." When she's talking to Tyrion about it, the question isn't whether or not she'll keep him prisoner or turn him to dragon-food, it's whether or not she'll help him. Like Jon being a hostage or prisoner or whatever was not even on the roster of decisions she needed to make. It was whether or not he'd get any help from her. And when Jon is talking to Tyrion, the issue again is "What can we do for you? You haven't given us enough to commit dragons or armies so is there anything else that we can help you with?" 

Yes, he broods for (about 5 seconds) about losing his ship and maybe he shouldn't have come to Dragonstone but even then, it seemed more about him being angry that he wasted his time making the journey than any real fear for his life. 

He's obviously free to walk around Dragonstone and approach the Dragon Queen without her guards surrounding her. 

But of course, if people want to insist that he was a PRISONER to suit their agenda, I daresay nothing will convince them otherwise.

[stagmania]

Have people seen the episode 5 leaks? Hackers posted the script.

[anamika]

8 minutes ago, Katsullivan said:

Yes, he broods for (about 5 seconds) about losing his ship

Which I found to be rather hilarious. Just the way he was being grumpy about Dany taking his ship. Jon in Dragonstone is playing out like some kind of romcom. With Davos as his wingman.

3 minutes ago, stagmania said:

Have people seen the episode 5 leaks? Hackers posted the script.

Last I heard it was not leaked to the public according to freefolk reddit?

Edited August 8, 2017 by anamika

[stagmania]

2 minutes ago, anamika said:

Not to the public according to freefolk reddit.

There's an easy to find summary of the episode on youtube that purports to come from the leak. I don't follow the leaks as closely as some here, so I can't say whether it's a trusted source. 

[SeanC]

1 hour ago, Katsullivan said:

What is beyond the pale about Sansa is that she's advocating for the same kind of exile that was inflicted on her when she was held prisoner in King's Landing and couldn't return to Winterfell. She is asking that these children be punished for their fathers's disloyalty, the same way that Joffrey and Cersei punished her for Ned and Robb.

No, she was not asking for them to be punished the way Joffrey and Cersei did.  At no point did she call for them to be physically harmed.

Her position was that the violation of the feudal contract should lead to the lands bestowed under it being rescinded. That's a reasonable position (as was Jon's, I should add; there's no "correct" answer to that sort of political question).

8 hours ago, Oscirus said:

I just realized another unstark like thing by Sansa. " The person who passes the senstence swings the sword." She definitely ain't doing that with Littlefinger :p

The whole "passes sentence" idea presumes that the ruler is skilled at arms for conducting an execution (i.e., is an ablebodied man).

[GrailKing]

1 minute ago, Katsullivan said:

That's not the Stark way. That's Cersei Lannister asking for Lady to be killed. 

If anything Cersei death-kissing that Sand Snake herself, and swallowing the antidote seconds later, was a more Stark-like execution than anything Sansa's  done.

OKAY  : )

She metaphorically did it the Stark way !

Sansa can't swing swords, like Robb, Jon or Arya........ but Sansa has her mind...... GRRM

She also has pens, which are mightier then swords on many occasions.

People can take Neds words literally or how I have done, and they both fit the Stark definition.

If Ned wanted his girls to do it his way he train them in it, he didn't.

Arya's the rebel in House Stark, she refused to follow rules. 

I like Arya, but I like Sansa more, I like how she uses her life training over someone with super abilities beyond their years, I like the political and human over the magical.

[SimoneS]

2 hours ago, Katsullivan said:

If GRRM had written "Spoils of War", Bronn would have run the other way from Dragon fire and Jaime would have died when he charged Drogon - if he wasn't cut down by a Dothraki by fighting with his left hand. The latter most likely because GRRM was a big fan of realistic, unceremonious conclusions like: a one-handed man versus a Dothraki warrior should have only one realistic outcome. Of course, if GRRM was writing this series, Cersei would have been long dead, and we'd be facing the WW as the Big Bad of the story as it's always been set up to be. Instead, apparently, we're going to have to deal with the WW first, then return to Cersei who will probably have developed the ability to shape-shift into a giant Griffin at the rate this story is going. 

They've fallen into all the repetitive tropes that GRRM wrote this story specifically to subvert and what is heartbreaking about all this is that with GRRM writing at the backwards pace he's been going at, this shitty fanfiction (and yes, I used the dirty word) is what we're going to have to accept as canon.

I would have preferred more realistic reactions from both Bronn and Jaime during the battle. I thought Jaime beating the Dothraki was so ridiculous that it took me right out of the scene. I have been fast forwarding through that bit when I rewatch.  I really hope that upcoming ridiculous "capture the wight" adventure does better.  

I am not a big fan of Martin's writing style and do I think that he has many of the same tropes that used in the sci fantasy genre, but it would be good if he could finish so we can see his full vision of the story. I think that he should forget about the many more books that he intended and focus on completing one final book. He should hire a full-time editor (read ghost writer) to help him flesh out the story from his outline and then he could fill in the details. He can then go back and tell the complete stories of various characters in additional books if he can manage it.

 

2 hours ago, anamika said:

I would like to see more of Theon actually. He still has a story that needs to be told. He's such an interesting character in the books, that I am hoping they do more with the character on the show. 

As for Cersei, I think they need her to stay till the very end because she is representative of the 'game' in game of thrones. Who else is left? We already have people complaining about the show becoming too much about magic/fantasy for their tastes with the fight against the WW getting more focus. They need the soap-opera KL drama to keep these folks watching. And that means we are stuck with Cersei and her plot gifts till the very end.

Although people who complain about magic in the sci fantasy genre are idiots, I concede that you are right about Cersei. She is the only villain left in the Game of Thrones with whom the audience is familiar as Euron is very new.

As for Theon, I suppose rescuing Yara is something. He better go north to help fight NK or he is even less than useless.

Edited August 8, 2017 by SimoneS

[GrailKing]

1 minute ago, SimoneS said:

As for Theon, I suppose rescuing Yara is something. He better go north to help fight NK or he is even less than useless.

I don't know how much fighting he could do himself, but command Iron Borne, or ferry people out of harms way would be a good start.

[GrailKing]

41 minutes ago, stagmania said:

Have people seen the episode 5 leaks? Hackers posted the script.

Are we talking about the YTuber who blurted out a S8 so call spoiler then read it on YT?

[sacrebleu]

with all the discussion in the episode thread regarding whether ALL the gold got there-- I wonder (actually, I hope) that Dany's army captures Jamie and ransoms him to KL for a chunk of the Tyrell gold. Cersei is faced with a choice: her brother or her standing with the Iron Bank. She chooses to keep the gold-- Jamie finally gets that she's beyond hope-- and sides with Tyrion/Dany and redeems himself by killing Cersei then taking the oath to join the Night's Watch.

We'd get good scenes between Tyrion/Jamie-- the final confrontation with Jamie/Cersei --and the fulfillment of her childhood gypsy prophecy. 

[anamika]

1 hour ago, stagmania said:

There's an easy to find summary of the episode on youtube that purports to come from the leak. I don't follow the leaks as closely as some here, so I can't say whether it's a trusted source. 

We already have episode discussions and summaries from frikidoctor. But I don't think the script has been leaked yet like episode 4. Apparently they holding out for ransom money:

https://twitter.com/businessinsider/status/894912077248290816

I don't think HBO is going to cave. Spoils of War had the highest ratings yet despite the episode being leaked!

1 hour ago, SeanC said:

No, she was not asking for them to be punished the way Joffrey and Cersei did.  At no point did she call for them to be physically harmed.

Her position was that the violation of the feudal contract should lead to the lands bestowed under it being rescinded. That's a reasonable position (as was Jon's, I should add; there's no "correct" answer to that sort of political question).

Which would lead to the children getting kicked out and ending up homeless - like an Arya or a Dany wanting vengeance. How would they adjust to life as common folk. Unnecessary and cruel punishment since the actual traitors had already been executed for their violation of that feudal contract. Something else I would like to point out here is that, this scene was clearly written as Jon being in the right and Sansa being in the wrong. After Jon makes the decision, we see this young child come forward, he forgives them, they swear allegiance, everyone smiles and cheers.

Edited August 8, 2017 by anamika

[Eyes High]

6 minutes ago, anamika said:

We already have episode discussions and summaries from frikidoctor. But I don't think the script has been leaked yet like episode 4. Apparently they holding out for ransom money:

https://twitter.com/businessinsider/status/894912077248290816

The script never leaked for 7x04, but what was leaked was a scene-by-scene outline of the episode written by D&D, basically a skeleton for what the script would be. I'm guessing the "script" for 7x05 would be the same thing.

[YaddaYadda]

These hackers are really not that bright. Season 7 was leaked already. Anyone who cared to look around could find the spoilers easily. GoT is the number one pirated show in the world and HBO doesn't seem to care all that much because it's not hurting their bottom line. The ratings keep going up from one episode to the other. I'm sure HBO is going to throw $7 million and that's not at all extortion. 

Anyway...

I guess the "convince her" part of Varys's dialogue in the trailer for episode 5 is the reason Tyrion ends up in KL with Davos. I'm really surprised Varys is buying into this whole WW thing at all. He is sitting there with Dany when Jon tells them that Bran saw the NK and his army marching on Eastwatch (if it means Edd is safe for another season, then I'm all for it). I'd think that this is another thing that would really unsettle Varys, especially after his encounter with Mel.

Tormund and the BwB are back in this episode, right?

Edited August 8, 2017 by YaddaYadda

[stagmania]

1 minute ago, YaddaYadda said:

These hackers are really not that bright. Season 7 was leaked already. Anyone who cared to look around could find the spoilers easily. GoT is the number one pirated show in the world and HBO doesn't seem to care all that much because it's not hurting their bottom line. The ratings keep going up from one episode to the other. I'm sure HBO is going to throw $7 million and that's not at all extortion. 

That's probably why they've now resorted to doxxing cast members.

[SeanC]

11 minutes ago, anamika said:

Which would lead to the children getting kicked out and ending up homeless - like an Arya or a Dany wanting vengeance. How would they adjust to life as common folk. Unnecessary and cruel punishment since the actual traitors had already been executed for their violation of that feudal contract. Something else I would like to point out here is that, this scene was clearly written as Jon being in the right and Sansa being in the wrong. After Jon makes the decision, we see this young child come forward, he forgives them, they swear allegiance, everyone smiles and cheers.

The children may already want vengeance for their parents' deaths. Taking away their power deprives them of the most ready means of achieving that.  It's not unnecessary or cruel to say you don't want banner houses with that sort of cloud hanging over them.  Westerosi and real-world history offers plenty of examples where retaining a defeated rival just gives them the chance to stab you in the back again later.

I'm not speaking to how the writers view it, since they've made a habit of presenting only one side of a multi-faceted case.  Discussed objectively, neither position is incorrect (and I say that as someone who thinks TV Sansa's stance is the exact opposite of what Book Sansa would do).

Edited August 8, 2017 by SeanC

[YaddaYadda]

3 minutes ago, stagmania said:

That's probably why they've now resorted to doxxing cast members.

Wow! That's pretty vile.

[Azi]

Those hackers are not the brightest crayons in the box, aren't they? HBO won't pay anything. They wouldn't even if they had the (ofc not yet existing) series finale.

I think the next episode is the only one I'm actively dreading a bit what with the whole Tarly burnig stuff, but I'm really looking forward to literally everything else. I also had already almost forgotten that Gendry will show up again. Really wonder why he went back to his old neighbourhood (I assume he could have found work as a smith in many places). Maybe he thought Stannis and Mel wouldn't be able to kidnap him from there so easily.
Am however bummed that the spoilers say he won't talk about Arya, because that always bugs me in tv shows when characters who should talk about other characters for logical reasons never do. 
 

[SeanC]

9 minutes ago, stagmania said:

That's probably why they've now resorted to doxxing cast members.

Even if Season 7 hadn't leaked, HBO wouldn't do anything, as it would just invite more hackers later.  Whatever short term problems this causes, people will know going forward that there's no pot of gold at the end of this particular rainbow.  For a certain type of hacker that just likes to fuck with people, that won't be a deterrent, but the time investment involved would be offputting for many without some financial motive.

Edited August 8, 2017 by SeanC

[anamika]

15 minutes ago, SeanC said:

The children may already want vengeance for their parents' deaths. Taking away their power deprives them of the most ready means of achieving that.  It's not unnecessary or cruel to say you don't want banner houses with that sort of cloud hanging over them.  Westerosi and real-world history offers plenty of examples where retaining a defeated rival just gives them the chance to stab you in the back again later.

I'm not speaking to how the writers view it, since they've made a habit of presenting only one side of a multi-faceted case.  Discussed objectively, neither position is incorrect (and I say that as someone who thinks TV Sansa's stance is the exact opposite of what Book Sansa would do).

Taking away their power did not prevent an Arya or a Dany from wreaking vengeance on the people who killed their family and took away their homes. Forgiving them and bringing them into the fold could prevent that from happening and ensure their loyalty in the future.

And if Sansa is allowed to practice barbaric medieval customs because it's a reasonable position to take to punish the children of traitors, then Dany should be allowed to execute the actual traitors without being labelled cruel and mad despite the writers presenting one side of a multi-faceted case by having Tyrion call her out as cruel. Which was my original point.

Edited August 8, 2017 by anamika

[SeanC]

11 minutes ago, anamika said:

Taking away their power did not prevent an Arya or a Dany from wreaking vengeance on the people who killed their family and took away their homes. Forgiving them and bringing them into the fold could prevent that from happening and ensure their loyalty in the future.

Or it could backfire, as I said.  There's plenty of historical precedent for either, which is why neither position is unreasonable.

I'd also say that Alys Karstark acquiring dragons or becoming a rogue member of an assassin cult are justifiably fairly low on the list of calculated possible outcomes.

Quote

And if Sansa is allowed to practice barbaric medieval customs because it's a reasonable position to take to punish the children of traitors, then Dany should be allowed to execute the actual traitors without being labelled cruel and mad despite the writers presenting one side of a multi-faceted case by having Tyrion call her out as cruel. Which was my original point.

I don't disagree about Dany.  Indeed, based on the spoilers I would say that offering Randyll Tarly the chance to rejoin her side is actually quite generous, considering the circumstances.

I wouldn't call stripping away lands that were only given on the precondition of loyal service "barbaric" either.  Indeed, House Karstark was quite literally founded when a past King in the North gave the lands of a defeated rebel house to his younger son. 

[Katsullivan]

1 hour ago, anamika said:

Which I found to be rather hilarious. Just the way he was being grumpy about Dany taking his ship. Jon in Dragonstone is playing out like some kind of romcom. With Davos as his wingman.

Don't get me wrong, I'm happy with the Jonerys (is that the ship name?) that's clearly being building this season --- but (tiny book purist whine) they're doing it all wrong! 

 

18 minutes ago, anamika said:

Taking away their power did not prevent an Arya or a Dany from wreaking vengeance on the people who killed their family and took away their homes. Forgiving them and bringing them into the fold could prevent that from happening and ensure their loyalty in the future.

And if Sansa is allowed to practice barbaric medieval customs because it's a reasonable position to take to punish the children of traitors, then Dany should be allowed to execute the actual traitors without being labelled cruel and mad despite the writers presenting one side of a multi-faceted case by having Tyrion call her out as cruel. Which was my original point.

This exactly. 

2 minutes ago, SeanC said:

Alys Karstark acquiring dragons or becoming a rogue member of an assassin cult are justifiably fairly low on the list of calculated possible outcomes.

Speak for yourself. Alys Karstark acquiring a pack of direwolves sounds like the plot of a sequel to me.

[Katsullivan]

1 hour ago, SimoneS said:

I thought Jaime beating the Dothraki was so ridiculous that it took me right out of the scene.

Ugh. Don't remind me. 

[Eyes High]

I checked Frikidoctor's Ep 4 summary, and he got the details that weren't in Lads' spoilers right, so I thought I'd post /resentmentforevere's summary of Frikidoctor's Ep 5 spoilers (grammar and spelling transcribed as is, because I can't be bothered to clean it up):

Quote

 

Ep.5 starts w/ the aftermath of Field of Fire 2.0 Bronn is scolding Jaime "what were u think"; Jamie is troubled (how is he going to tell Cersei about this overwhelming defeat).

Next Tarlys' "trial" - Dany rounds up the prisoners while the Dothraki pillage whatever they can. Dany tells the Tarleys to bend the knee, they both refuse (Randyll shouts Cersei is my queen). FD rants about Dickon ("know by some as Rickon" wink wink) being born stupid. Dany "barbeques" both Tarlys while Tyron watches in dismay. Then FD explains why he thinks both Tarlys made an "absurd" choice. After Dany's pyrotechnics "trial" the rest of the Lannister soldiers & the leaders of the smaller houses bend the knee.

In Dragonstone - epic scene where Dany lands & Jon pets Drogon (Dany obviously taken aback but ponders whether he might be special). She gets of Drogon, begins to tell Jon how the dragons are her babies not savage beasts, "she a proud mama" etc ... then TADAA! here comes greyscale free Jorah only to find ... "friend zone" again. Dany happy to see him "u found the cure", Jorah scrutinizing Jon (-who dat? -he new KitN.).

FD mentions Jon's relationship w/ Jeor and Ned "hunting" Jorah but never catching him, and both Jon & Jorah having "daddy issues", and being both Northerners ... and they end up being good friends.

Next Bran wargs a flock of ravens (not one but all of them) beyond the wall to spy on the NK but the NK senses him (u're not gonna get me that easy) so B exits the vision.

Next FD is reasoning "why warg all not just one, why does he need so many ravens?" A: RAVENS=LETTERS. Bran knows that the WW are close so he needs ravens to send warning letters to everybody.

Jon receives a letter f. WF which says that Bran & Arya are back at home + WARNING: the NK is coming! This will trigger a crisis: they have to get proof to make everybody come together.

Tyrion & Varys worry over Dany (what if she crazy like her daddy, there was no need for such cruelty, what are we going to do etc)

Team Dragonstone agrees they have to convince Cersei to unite to fight together, putting aside their differences for the time being. But they know Cersei is stubborn like a mule so they decide to approach Jamie. So the plan is for Davos (who has previous experience) to smuggle Tyrion (who has a connection w/ Jaime) into KL. There they contact Bronn & arrange to trick Jamie into meeting.

FD reminds us that Tyrion killed Tywin, but now Jaime (& Cersei) know that Tyrion was wrongly accused - Olen was responsible for Joffrey's death. FD also lets us know that he thinks Tyrion is a Targ

While Tyrion meets w/ Jamie, Davos finds Gendry in the smithy. Gendry, sick of forging swards for the Lannister is happy to join Davos's cause. Gendry forged for himself an impressive war hammer w/ the Baratheon symbol engraved on it. (FD makes a joke about Gendry being Azor Ahai)

Next Davos & Gendry go meet Tyron on the beach but they are stopped by 2 Gold Cloaks. Davos tries to smooth talk his way out of the situation (he & Gendry are "fishermen", bribes the guards w/ "aphrodisiac crabs") while Tyrion the most known dwarf in the 7 Kingdoms is trying to pass the guards unobserved. Gendry ends up knocking off the GC w/ his war hammer.

Jamie has to tell Cersei that he met Tyrion. She's not gonna be happy about it (even if she knows Tyron is not responsible for Joffrey's death.). Jamie will "plead entrapment" (he was set up by Bronn). Poor Bronn will find himself unexpectedly guilty.

Tyrion, Davos, Gendry return to Dragonstone where u have "the meeting of the bastards". Gendry meets Jon; they bond over memories of their respective fathers (Jon met Robert, Gendry met Ned). Next Tyron "reunites" w/ Jorah. Since the Lannister twins don't believe the threat is real they have to get a irrefutable proof which will unite everyone in the war against the WW. So they organize the Expedition beyond the Wall consisting of: Jon, Davos, Gendry & Jorah. Jon & Dany say their goodbyes which will marc the beginning of "Jonerys" ("if I don't return u won't have to worry about the KofN anymore ... I've gotten used to him").

Off they go by boat to Eastwatch-by-the-Sea where they meet Tormund who has captured the BwB. The atmosphere is tensed due to "pending grudges": Gendry vs BwB, Jorah vs the wildlings (via Jeor's struggles w/ the wildlings), Jon vs the Hound (him being Sansa's guard dog) - a lot of resentment between ppl that have to unite. Beric says the Lord of Light's word must prevail. Jon will free the BwB if they join him. We got ourselves a posse ready to go wight hunting.

At Winterfell Sansa is in charge, "chaos is a ladder", here comes LF w/ his ally Yohn Royce trying to take advantage of the situation. The Northern lords keep asking "where is the KitN", Sansa "he'll be back, pay attention to me, I'm in charge now", and they "no, we want our KitN Jon".

I couldn't find (I'm not saying that it isn't) a specific scene like this on Chili's blog, if some wants to double-check the translation for this part pls, the vid starts here

Arya realizes that Sansa has the tendency to "take charge" despite Jon being the true KofN thus conflict among sisters ensues. Arya & Sansa argue (probably in Sansa's room/Ned & Cat former bedroom). Arya believes Sansa wants the power for herself (and she doesn't like Jon so much after all).

Arya is strongly distrusts LF (FD mentions Arya's time in Harrenhal when she witnessed the meeting between Tywin & LF, LF= Tywin's middleman) and she starts spying on him. LF, shrewd as usual, arranges a trap for Arya using Sansa's letter to Rob. Knowing that she's watching him, LF "hides" the letter under the mattress. Arya sneaks in, finds & reads the letter while LF is sneakily watching her.

In Oldtown Sam has had enough. Bran's warning letter reached Oldtown but NOBODY there cares about Sam & his walking dead.

While practicing reading, Gilly uses High Septon Maynard's journal which describes the annulment of R's 1st marriage & the new marriage to Liana Stark, in a clearing in Dorn (she struggles w/ Raegar's name, and Sam, preoccupied w/ his things, doesn't pay much attention to her).

Sam + Gilly + baby Sam + Heartsbane + the best books Sam could steal take the cart express to Winterfell.

End of ep5. FD believes that Sam has the secret to making Valyrian steel and some other things he may have read in the "forbidden zone" - details we will not find out this season.

 

I'm most curious about Arya and Sansa's fight, because based on the little information we have it sounds completely ridiculous.

Here's another translation of Frikidoctor's Ep 5 spoilers from /inostrale at /Freefolk (I added paragraph breaks to make it easier to read):

Quote

We see the consequences of the field of fire, episode 4 finished with Bronn saving Jaime from Drogon's firebreath. Bring asks Jaime if he lost his mind for charging at a dragon, Jaime tells him he's right. Then just like Tyrion had to tell Daenerys about the failure of the taking of Casterly Rock, Jaime has to tell his men about losing the battle in episode 5. Frikidoctor is confident that the following is going to take place in episode 5 as episode 4 is pretty short (47 mins) and the battle takes up most of it. After the battle the prisoners are rounded up as the Dothraki loot and pillage from corpses and caravans. Daenerys orders the Tarlys to bend the knee. They are loyal to Cersei. Daenerys makes a barbecue out of them. Tyrion witnesses and disapproves. Every other prisoner bends the knee in horror after witnessing the Tarlys burning.

Daenerys flies back to Dragonstone, they land close to Jon and Jon gets to pat Drogon's head, which impresses Daenerys. She asks him about his views on the dragons and he doesn't consider beasts as most people do. As they speak Jorah Mormont arrives in Dragonstone on a small boat, as he approaches he seems to be happy as now that he is cured he has a chance with Daenerys, but when he lands he sees Dany and Jon speaking. He wants to know who Jon is and of course is bothered by the fact that he is Eddard's son, the man who exiled him. But they seem to get on well.

Then we have a mysterious scene (the shot of flying ravens in the trailer). Frik doesn't actually know if this is in episode 5! Bran wargs into ALL of the ravens at Winterfall and flies some of them beyond the Wall to check out the situation with the WW. He sees the army of the dead marching. Some he sends to Dragonstone to inform Jon that he and Arya are at Winterfall and tells him the Night King is coming.

Then we have a conversation between Tyrion and Varys where they worry about Daenerys' cruelty.

Meanwhile Jon realizes that he really needs to convince Cersei about the threat of the WW. As she's so stubborn he decides to try to convince Jaime instead. To do so he asks for help from Tyrion, because Jaime will be willing to listen to hi'm, and Davos, because he can smuggle them out of Dragonstone. They manage to organize a meeting through Bronn (In King's Landing!). Jaime now knows Tyrion didn't kill Joffrey so he's willing to speak to him even though he allied with the dragon queen betraying the Lannisters. Tyrion tries to convince him to yield to Dany and warns him about a more serious threat: the WW. Davos walks into an armory and meets Gendry and he makes a gesture like he's rowing as a way of joking. Gendry is tired of working there for the Lannisters and joins Davos. He has forged a weapon for himself: a very impressive hammer with the Baratheon sigil emblazoned on it. As they leave and go to the boat they are questioned by two guards because they almost recognized Tyrion and Gendry kills them to be done with it. Jaime tells Cersei he met with Tyrion. She loses her shit and Bronn is the spacegoat as he deceived Jaime into meeting him.

Back in Dragonstone Jon meets Gendry. They are both bastards and Gendry remembers Ned so they get along. Tyrion meets Jorah again (nothing special). Then the wight hunt is organized (Friki doesn't provide any other details about how they come up with it) . Jon and others (you know who they are) get ready to set sail and Jon says goodbye to Daenerys. Things get slightly romantic.

They go to Eastwatch as Tormund and the wildlings are manning the castle. Tormund shows them some prisoners they have: it's the hound, Thoros and Beric. Jon asks them to join him, Gendry isn't too happy about this of course. Tormund is not happy about Jorah's presence because of what his father did. Beric destroys both conflicts by saying that they have a mission and go out the past aside. So the group is formed.

Meanwhile in Winterfall things get tense. The lords of the north are agitated as they want to know what is going on with Jon. Sansa is in charge and tries to keep them at bay. Arya sees this and thinks she craves power. Also Arya already knows what kind of person LF is because she remembers him from Harrenhal. She wants to see what he's up to so she spies him as he's in his chamber. He notices it and pulls out the letter Sansa wrote to Rob back in season 1 and hides it under the bed all the while knowing that Arya is watching him. When he leaves Arya finds a way into the locked room and as she reads it we see LF's shot from the trailer where he is lurking in a corner in the dark.

Bran has also sent a letter to the Citdel to warn them of the WW, Sam reads it and is tired to see the masters' indifference once again. Gilly practices reading and finds out that Rhaegar broke his marriage with Elia and married Lyanna. Sam decides to leave with Gilly and the kid on a carriage full of stolen stuff. They are going to Winterfall to help Jon with the WW. Friki is also sure that now Sam has also information about the WW he won't talk about until season 8.

Edited August 8, 2017 by Eyes High

[Katsullivan]

6 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

I'm most curious about Arya and Sansa's fight, because based on the little information we have it sounds completely ridiculous.

Since the show parted from the books, everything concerning Sansa sounds completely ridiculous.

Also, what was the point of the Hound/Arya buddy cup show of Season 5 since that doesn't come up when the Hound deals with Jon?

8 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

Team Dragonstone agrees they have to convince Cersei to unite to fight together, putting aside their differences for the time being.

Or Dany could just end the war faster???

 

8 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

Ep.5 starts w/ the aftermath of Field of Fire 2.0 Bronn is scolding Jaime "what were u think"; Jamie is troubled (how is he going to tell Cersei about this overwhelming defeat).

I love that they don't even bother trying to explain how Jaime and Bronn walked out of that situation.

[Oscirus]

2 hours ago, GrailKing said:

OKAY  : )

She metaphorically did it the Stark way !

Sansa can't swing swords, like Robb, Jon or Arya........ but Sansa has her mind...... GRRM

She also has pens, which are mightier then swords on many occasions.

People can take Neds words literally or how I have done, and they both fit the Stark definition.

If Ned wanted his girls to do it his way he train them in it, he didn't.

Arya's the rebel in House Stark, she refused to follow rules. 

I like Arya, but I like Sansa more, I like how she uses her life training over someone with super abilities beyond their years, I like the political and human over the magical.

Her using dogs to kill Ramsey was doing it the Stark way. Her passing the sentence and watching  Arya do it is not at all the stark way since she only performs half the quote in that sense.

[Eyes High]

7 minutes ago, Katsullivan said:

Also, what was the point of the Hound/Arya buddy cup show of Season 5 since that doesn't come up when the Hound deals with Jon?

One would also think that if Sansa had told Jon about Sandor being one of her keepers in KL--which seems to be the reason Jon's nose is out of joint about working with Sandor--that she also would have told him about Sandor saving her during the riot. I'm less concerned about the Sandor/Arya road trip not coming up in that conversation, since it's not clear that Sansa ever found out about that--although she doesn't blink when LF mentions that Brienne beat the Hound--and therefore Jon would have no way of knowing. Also, Sandor would be unlikely to bring up his relationship with Arya to defend himself against the charge of having been one of Sansa's keepers in KL; he'd be more likely to bring up the fact that he saved Sansa during the riot.

Sandor and Arya's prior relationship does come up in 7x07, when Sandor apparently asks Brienne something to the effect of why isn't she in Winterfell taking care of Arya, and Brienne replies that the only one who needs protecting is the one who tries to get in Arya's way. This prompts a smile from Sandor and a comment that he doesn't plan to be the one to do that, presumably smoothing over the whole S4 deathmatch thing.

[SimoneS]

Quote

Next Tarlys' "trial" - Dany rounds up the prisoners while the Dothraki pillage whatever they can. Dany tells the Tarleys to bend the knee, they both refuse (Randyll shouts Cersei is my queen). FD rants about Dickon ("know by some as Rickon" wink wink) being born stupid. Dany "barbeques" both Tarlys while Tyron watches in dismay. Then FD explains why he thinks both Tarlys made an "absurd" choice. After Dany's pyrotechnics "trial" the rest of the Lannister soldiers & the leaders of the smaller houses bend the knee.

How stupid are those Tarlys! I will be cheering when Daenerys fries them. Justice for Lady Olenna! And gets the other lords to bend the knee. Imagine how many lives would have been saved, if Dany had done this sooner. It occurs to me that this will allow Sam to become lord of Highgarden.

[sacrebleu]

Quote

 Jaime has to tell his men about losing the battle

how do Bronn and Jamie get out of water and manage to elude the Dothraki/being taken prisoner? Come on, show! 

[YaddaYadda]

Jon not gonna bring up Ghost at all then? 

[SimoneS]

I don't know who is more idiotic at this point, Jon, Tyrion, or Varys. I am going with Jon as the least idiotic of the bunch because he doesn't know Cersei so he naively believes that she can be reasoned with. There is no excuse for Tyrion and Varys. They are now being written as dummies.

Edited August 8, 2017 by SimoneS

[Eyes High]

15 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

It occurs to me that this will allow Sam to become lord of Highgarden.

That does seem to be where this is going (coupled with Sam's rejection of becoming a maester and stealing a bunch of Citadel shit in 7x05, which is likely to make him persona non grata), if we assume that the NW will be disbanded in the end. Some viewers also noticed in the episode where Jaime is getting Randyll Tarly to turn on Olenna that Jaime says something along the lines of "What better man for Warden of the South?" and the next scene shows Sam.

Edited August 8, 2017 by Eyes High