S04.E10: From Dancing Mice to Psychopaths

[romantic idiot]

So the self healing was never something that i was convinced about, I'll confess. And I don't find Kira more creepy than any other precocious child. She's actually been good about being silent and cute. It's only this season that they are playing up her connection to the sisters but even that's been mostly low key. 

[Blackie]

Another reason they have to finish up this show...the timeline for the whole series is less then 1 year but in actual time by it will be , what, over 5 years?  They won't be able to have Kira still looking like the same little girl.  I kind of think that is why you never really see much of Alison's kids, especially her son.  The actor probably aged out of the role.

[snarktini]

I didn't expect it to be Sarah playing Krystal. (I wasn't watching super closely on first pass so I missed the acting details. Frankly, in the really tense episodes I have to distract myself a little!) When "Krystal" walked away I did notice the hair seemed unusually wig-like, and I still didn't clue in! Probably because it didn't seem necessary for the plan -- Krystal could still the bait, with Sarah and Mrs S waiting in the blind. Seems like more trouble than it's worth to get a wig and make over Sarah. Unless they think she's too flaky to go undercover like that? Or didn't want to risk having two clones out in public near each other?

Whatever! Doesn't matter. But it highlights an attention to detail I appreciate about the show. They could simply re-use the Krystal wig for Sarah-as-Krystal. They go to the trouble of having wigs for each clone and lesser wigs for clones imitating other clones. That's usually one of the giveaways.

Edited June 19, 2016 by snarktini

[godonlyknows]

I just wonder where they (the characters) get all these wigs on short notice - I don't suppose a blonde one like Krystal's is hard to find but Rachel's bob from last year couldn't have been as easy to get hold of. And even Helena managed to find a Sarah wig.

[gibasi]

I am also glad next season is the last. The writers might be able to do the story justice then.  I am not sure what Seasons 2 and 3 were because they were pretty much forgotten by everyone.  One comment about Ira looking like the others and that was it.  But I am so glad because I hated the whole Castor  and Prometheus nonsense and I never want to see Mark and Gracie again either.

I also wish Delphine had stayed dead.  I don't like it when shows plays so fast and loose with the emotions of their characters and their audiences.  Because Delphine survived it makes you question every other death on the show.

I think it was  slf who said she wished the show had been about the original clones and the connections they forged with each other and trying to make their way in the world.  I agree that would have made an awesome story!  This conspiracy nonsense and now PT Westmoreland is still alive!.  It just brings  everything down in my opinion. And when in doubt create another damn clone.  MK.  Krystal.  The boy from last season.

I don't have much faith in the writers based on the detours of Seasons 2 and 3 and all of the loose threads they have dangling.  I would like to see our original clones (Allison, Cosima, Helena, Sarah) and Felix and S featured prominently the finale season.

[holly4755]

I believe when Sarah imitated Krystal, her voice was deeper. 

[maddie965]

As much as I enjoyed watching this episode, because, well, it's Orphan Black, I agree with everyone who thought it was disappointing. It felt like a Lost episode to me, and I say that in a bad way: very exciting to watch, but when you think about it, nothing makes sense at all. I don't understand Neotution's purpose, or why they would want Rachel as their leader. I don't know who the "Others" are (Tks, Lady Calipso!) and I don't really care. I couldn't care less for Delphine (she's just Rachel 2 to me), and her being alive sounds like a weak trick to me. I can't, for the life of me, understand why Sarah would go alone to the island. Bring Art, or Helena, or Ira, or all of them, for God's sake! I don't understand how Cosima found a cure so fast, or how she managed to take it with her. I don't understand why we need a new vilain each season (the leader of the Others, the ageless man, whatever), when they all end up being meaningless in the end. Really, Orphan Black writers, you should know better right now.

That said, I'm still hooked, of course. Tatiana is a Goddess, and the way she played Sarah playing Krystal was just genius. Plus, I love Cosima and Helena more than words can say. Felix, Alison, Donnie, Mrs. S, Kira, Mika, they're all in my heart. I do wish they made the show about the characters, and not about some stupid plots that make no sense at all. But, since that won't happen, I'll take whatever I can get. Bring on the next season, please! 

[ottoDbusdriver]

I was surprised that the season finale was Alison-free.  Donnie was in it, albeit briefly, and Alison was referred to but that was about it.

And I didn't like that Helena really didn't do that much all season, except pull that Robin Hood act a few episodes back, and then back to the national park she's camped out in.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

Orphan Black's Season Finale Goes Dark

When Rachel goes rogue, the sestras are frozen out -- and clubbed, and stabbed, and rendered incontinent, and….

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Here's the Alison/Donnie scene for anyone who didn't get to see it:

[dampfire]

Anybody else see what looked like a female body (a "swap-out" body for Delphine?) in the back of the van when the door was opened?  Absolutely thought I saw a body on first viewing.  The more I look at it though, the less convinced I get.  

A little disappointed that Duko turned out to be the one who shot Delphine.*  Sure, it makes objective sense if Evie was the Neo tasked with eliminating Delphine.  But Delphine asking Duko, "What will happen to her?" makes less sense.  Delphine (as Leekie's protege) in all likelihood knew who Evie was.  And she may have even been vaguely aware that Duko was Evie's henchman.  But why would she assume that Duko knew to whom she was referring when she asked the question?  Henchmen and hitmen oftentimes are merely acting on orders and don't necessarily know a lot about the reasons behind those orders.  (During the course of S's interrogation of Duko in 408 he pleads ignorance saying, "That's not my end of things!")  Then again...Delphine really didn't have anyone else to ask under the circumstances, did she?

* Hey, JohnSmithSensei.  Looked to me like Duko was moving in for the head shot before Krystal's "ringtone" distracted him.   
~~
Good grief!!!  Was Rachel w-w-working that cane of hers for all it was worth or what?  I'm inclined to agree, at least in part, with Ferdinand's assessment: "I like the cane. Elegant. Multi-purpose." [emphasis mine]
~~
Where the hell is the Island of Doctor Moreau anyway?  Initially, I was under the impression that it was located at a significant remove from most of the action.  (If Delphine's account of Rachel's journey after her escape from DYAD is correct, that is.  "We know Rachel flew to Austria as 'Krystal Goderitch,'" Delphine tells Nealon.  "She took a car to Innsbruck, was admitted to a private hospital, and disappeared."  Why take Rachel all the way to Austria for eye surgery only to bring her back to, essentially, the place where she started?)  I just kind of assumed that the island was off the coast of England (Susan being from England) or something.  But the way people just seem to be hopping on helicopters to go and come (rather quickly) to and from the island, I'm thinking it's in Lake Ontario.  Or maybe Lake Erie or even Lake Huron.  One way or another, it seems it's in a substantial body of water.  Not just some little lake with an island in it.  No biggie, I know.  But this show makes me think this way.
~~
I understand the rationale behind Sarah going to the island alone.  Nonetheless...WTF was she thinking!?!  

Okay, maybe she didn't want to take Helena because she's pregnant.  Or because Helena's on a new path (a path she's negotiated so successfully already that she's managed to only kill 5 or 6 people while on it!)  Or maybe Sarah thought Helena's solution to the problem at hand might escalate, be it figuratively or literally, to OVERKILL.  Maybe she didn't take Felix because she wanted to keep him out of danger...or it might merely have been because, typically, the comically caustic nature of any interaction between Felix and Rachel tends to suck some of the seriousness out of any situation.  (Rachel's, "You're not immune to me, you cockroach!" nearly managed to do this all on its own.)  Might be that Art couldn't accompany Sarah because (a little late for this line of thinking, Sarah!) she didn't want to get him that directly involved in this mess.  And maybe she wanted to continue to keep Alison (cocked and loaded and raring to go as the Special Extended Scene showed us she indeed was) as insulated from the main action as possible.  And maybe she didn't want to bring Krystal because, well, Sarah's just not used to being so summarily dismissed.  (Gotta admit that the prospect of this pairing going on a "mission" together is actually so awesome that its sheer entertainment value probably would have mitigated against the dramatic intensity F&M were shooting for in the subterranean showdown between Sarah and Rachel.)  MK might have flat out torched the island, reducing it to little more than 4 billion year-old Precambrian rock.  Goes without saying that Benjamin was unavailable because he was attending a memorial service for Kendall's driver...a person nobody else in Clone Club seems to have given a flying fuck about.  And yes (of course, of course), S has to watch Kira...just like she was when Sarah was confronting Van Lier while Art and Felix were searching for Rachel.  Oh, wait....

And what BTW was Sarah's Exit Strategy?  Is there some Special Fucking Neolutionist Regulation that helicopters can't land on this island and just...fucking...WAIT?
~~
I suppose Evie's fatal comeuppance was ironically apropos.  Killed by her own tech.  Agree with others though that it was a bit anti-climatic.  Would have loved to have seen S be the agent of Evie's demise.  Duko's exit was satisfying.  And he was, no doubt, despicable.  But he was (or at least may have been) something of a pawn (a pawn, to be sure, who seemed to enjoy his work a helluvalot more than a little too much).  It's just that S dispatching Evie with extreme prejudice would have been so, so, so much sweeter.

What I kind of don't get is the actual method of Evie's death.  I mean, seriously?  The latest iteration of the bot -- the one Brightborn apparently intends to mass market -- still employs the "kill switch"?  Really?  

I kind of understand why the prototypical versions experimentally implanted in the "tadpoles" were engineered to attack the hosts when removal was attempted.  Even that seemed a fairly risky practice to me though.  Too many tadpoles (with fucking maggot-bots in their cheeks!) start turning up the victims of lethal doses of tetrodotoxin...before the likes of Frank and Roxie and Duko can intervene...and the whole  sinister scheme could have, so to speak, exploded in Evie's face...long, long before before her own bot did exactly that.  (I mean, look what happened when two plucky dreamers, Brightborn "carriers" named Tabitha and Kendra, made an impromptu vid, hit the road, and managed do their damage with a more than respectable survival rate of 50%.)

Furthermore, it just seems to me that if millions of people are supposed to have these things put in their bodies, the scandalous (and, oh yeah, legal) consequences for Brightborn could and would grow exponentially even if people were just getting socked in their jaws or having car accidents or faceplanting after one too many tequilas...and were, oh by the way, being poisoned to death in the process.  I mean, WTF?  

And why the hell would Evie allow herself to be implanted with a potentially toxic bot (unless, I guess, Van Lier did so surreptitiously)?  Why, for that matter, would any of the Neo bigwigs (Leekie, Nealon, et al) agree to having toxic bots?  I don't get it!  Efficacious, maybe.  But dangerous, definitely!  Am I missing something?  Is there some reason that I can't imagine that bots sans tetrodotoxin couldn't be designed and manufactured?  Is there some reason that the bots wouldn't properly function for genetic therapy without the toxin?  If so, it's beyond my understanding.

So too with the design of the bot.  Does it really have to look like a maggot or a worm?  Sure, a lot of potential customers would opt for the benefits of the treatment regardless of the appearance of the device.  But don't tell me that a good chunk of business wouldn't be lost simply because of the "creep out" factor.  I mean, Ewww.  Gross.  Couldn't the device look a little more innocuous?  Look like a capsule or something?   
~~
Totally surprised by Krystal's reaction to the revelation of her clonehood.  Expected her to friggin' freak.  Instead: "Right, whatever."  

Personally though, I would have loved to have had her fill in what happened to her after Delphine discovered her captive and comatose at DYAD.  What happened to her between that point and Delphine's shooting?  How and why did she end up in that parkade?  True, that might not have added much of note to Delphine's inarguably important story.  But it would have expanded on Krystal's.  Which, although it may not exactly have been vital information, would certainly have been fun to listen to.

Hell...fact is, I'd pay good money to hear Tat as Krystal doing kind of an e-book recap of the entire series after it ends next year.  

So Sarah gets off this train.  At Huxley Station.  I've been there before.  But like only once I think.  Place smells.  Like, baddd.  Anyways, Sarah makes a call to what turns out to be Siobhan...about Kira.  But that doesn't go well at all.  Sarah's been missing...out of the picture for going on a year.  Not good.  Not good at all.  So she like slams down the receiver of the pay phone -- I swear, a pay phone! -- and she's kind of muttering, "Bitch!" to herself -- about Siobhan -- when she notices this other woman a little ways down the platform.  The woman's sobbing. She puts down her bag.  Then she steps out of her heels.  Then she takes off her jacket, folds it...very neat, and puts it by her heels.  Sarah finds herself like moving towards the woman without really realizing it.  Then the woman turns and looks at Sarah.  They look exactly alike!  I swear!  Well, not exactly exactly.  Beth, the other woman, is normally like an 8.  No question.  And Sarah's a 7 on her best day.  Sarah's kind of shocked.  But Beth is a blank stare walking.  She's not looking good.  At all.  This is definitely not a normal day for her.  Beth's a 6 -- tops! -- as she turns towards the tracks....
~~
"I worry about all the sisters," Kira tells Sarah in this ep.  "There's so many we don't even know."  Sarah answers: "We're doing this for all of them, too. I want us all to be free."

Which leads me to wonder about just how many of the remaining clones MK may be aware  of.  How exhaustive is her list?  Is it anywhere close to comprehensive?  I'm under the impression that, at least since the Helsinki Purge, MK's been obsessively monitoring and scavenging every scrap of information about the clones that she's been able to access.  She was probably the first to identify Helena's European killing spree.  And she probably contacted Katja after determining that Katja was an imminent target.  

Cosima tells Sarah in 103 that, "...six months ago, Katja contacted Beth with this crazy story about her genetic identicals being hunted in Europe."  Yet in 401, after MK asks Beth, "Did you tell the others about me?"  Beth answers, "I never reveal a source. That's why you brought me into this in the first place, isn't it?"  Which would seem to contradict, at least partially, Cosima's version of events.  Which, in turn, is understandable.  Because Beth is quite intentionally withholding information about MK's existence from Cosima and Alison.  

While it's still possible that Katja was the first clone to contact Beth, it's probable, even if that's the case, that Katja did so at MK's urging.  MK was the conduit.  MK was orchestrating things.  Hence Beth saying to MK, "...you brought me into this...."  

Beth knew about other clones too...clones she didn't bother to tell Cosima and Alison about either.  Tony, certainly.  Sarah and Krystal quite probably.  And others, it's likely, as well.  Exactly how many others we don't know...and may never find out.  Alison was probably Beth's first physically verified identical...mainly because of the convenience proximity afforded her.  Beth probably made the effort to contact Cosima because of her Evo-Devo status.

Why bring all this up?  Well...'cuz.  But it does seem kind of important because if Clone Club is indeed finally in possession of the cure (kindly allow me to indulge in a little optimism over the 40-some weeks of the show's hiatus), they'll have to find a way to distribute it to, "...the many we don't even know," to whom Kira refers.  That, of course, is assuming that Clone Club doesn't decide to go public.  If they don't, an effort will have to be made to find out who the Clones Unknown are.  Which is why I find myself wondering how extensive MK's list might be.  And how much Beth may have additionally known.

In my most current meta-fantasy, I find myself imagining Sarah and Cosima (in the Series Finale?) showing up at the door of a modestly successful actress originally hailing from Regina, Saskatchewan.

Which does raise an interesting question.  What was the DYAD/Topside policy regarding "fame"?  One or more of the clones becoming famous...or infamous (as a modestly successful actress, as an assassin, as a notorious soccer mom slash school trustee slash drug dealer slash manslaughterer, as the first scientist to ever appear on the cover of Scientific American... just to float a few thoroughly arbitrary hypotheticals) could certainly draw the attention...at least of other clones and those who know them.  The whole thing could snowball quickly out of control after that.  Was it DYAD and/or Topside's general practice to hasten the demise of clones flirting with fame?  Or was it more usual to merely conspire influentially against such personal notoriety ever coming to fruition?  If it's the latter though, that would go a long way toward explaining why the modestly successful actress from Regina in my meta-fantasy has yet to snag the fucking shitload of Emmys that she so richly deserves!
~~
Delphine!  Delphine!  HEY!  DELPHINE!!!  I'm feeling pretty damn hypothermic myself here!

Edited June 24, 2016 by dampfire

[shapeshifter]

Quote

...And why the hell would Evie allow herself to be implanted with a potentially toxic bot (unless, I guess, Van Lier did so surreptitiously)?  Why, for that matter, would any of the Neo bigwigs (Leekie, Nealon, et al) agree to having toxic bots?  I don't get it!  Efficacious, maybe.  But dangerous, definitely!  Am I missing something?...

Evie suffered from really bad recurring shingles.

 

Quote

What was the DYAD/Topside policy regarding "fame"?  One or more of the clones becoming famous...or infamous (as a modestly successful actress, as an assassin, as a notorious soccer mom slash school trustee slash drug dealer slash manslaughterer, as the first scientist to ever appear on the cover of Scientific American... just to float a few thoroughly arbitrary hypotheticals) could certainly draw the attention...at least of other clones and those who know them.  The whole thing could snowball quickly out of control after that.

That would make a great seriess in and of itself.

[dampfire]

3 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Evie suffered from really bad recurring shingles.

I understand that Evie was suffering from shingles.  I understand why she'd choose to have a bot implanted.  I understand, in general terms anyway, the purpose of the bots.  What I don't understand though is the purpose of the toxicity.  For the tadpole test subjects, okay, I kind of get it.  And there might even be some nefarious ulterior motive for retaining (yet not disclosing) the fail-safe feature when the tech is openly and enthusiastically marketed to the public en masse.  I just don't understand why those "in the know" like Evie and Leekie and Nealon would willingly expose themselves to that toxicity.  It seems to me that the "kill switch" is an ancillary function of the device which has nothing whatsoever to do its "medical" purpose.  I mean, implant the bot, sure.  But remove the toxin and its delivery system (described thusly by Leslie to Sarah at the Dental Implant Clinic: "I've penetrated the device, which now means that the slightest movement on your part will cause it to erupt....If you do move, a burst of tendrils will release a fatal dose of tetrodotoxin....").  Yikes!  As if the toxin ain't bad enough!  But...tendrils!  Yikes!

[Mabinogia]

Maybe she didn't know it was still in there. She's not the top dog, Leekie, Nealon, none of them are the biggest bad. Maybe Biggest Bad decided to tell them the bot was safe for them, but left the toxin in "just in case". I mean, these are people who are not the trusting types. And it did prove to come in handy lol

[romantic idiot]

And honestly, Evie herself was like Rachael. She was the science too, not the instigators. She had childhood diseases which gene therapy cured, and may even have been one of the first to get the bot implanted. 

On 20 June 2016 at 2:51 AM, holly4755 said:

I believe when Sarah imitated Krystal, her voice was deeper. 

For me it was the lips. Krystal's lips look very different to me. 

I'll confess, I'm pretty meh about Delphine's return - though i"m happy for Cosima. I still miss Paul. 

[Ottis]

Quote

It doesn't help that the show still does not care to explain why cloning should get us closer to genetic change in the general population within our life-time - Rachel's mission statement. How is that supposed to work when the clones still die? Are Evie's bots the answer? And if so, how's that supposed to work? And how is producing clones without clone-crud in any way connected to changing the genome of all of us i.e. triggering off a giant evolutionary change. I'm normally willing to handwave the science on this show - but this makes no sense.

And what is this evolutionary change they want, and why? I still don't understand why anyone is doing anything on this show, while liking it all the same. I get that the clones don't like being used for experiments, and I get that the experimenters want to somehow "cure" the clones and are manipulate them against the clones' will (and that's bad, um-kay?). But what is the point of it all? Is humanity about to face an unstoppable virus? Are aliens about to remove our atmosphere and humans need to be able to live in vacuum? Does someone need an evil close army to take out the Jedis and ... no, wait a minute.

[slf]

2 hours ago, romantic idiot said:

I still miss Paul. 

Me too, and I wasn't a huge fan when he was still on the show. Weird. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I'm not sure how much I miss Paul the character, but I definitely missed shirtless Paul this season!

[Mabinogia]

I would just be happy with Shirtless Paul standing around in the background of ever scene. I would willingly suspend my disbelief for a bit of that. That man is stunningly beautiful.

[snarktini]

6 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

I would just be happy with Shirtless Paul standing around in the background of ever scene. I would willingly suspend my disbelief for a bit of that. That man is stunningly beautiful.

Not shirtless, but charming:

[Not Beth]

I had to wait an extra week before watching this episode. It was worth the wait.

I'm glad that Krystal got let in on the whole clone thing, even if she continues to not believe it. Also glad that we have an answer and proper return and reunion regarding Delphine.

I didn't know until I started reading this thread that season five will be the final season. So, will Rachel and the really old man Neolutionist whose name isn't properly engraved in my memory yet be the main bad guys for the final season?

This episode could have done with more Alison, Donnie and Helena.

edited to add: Also, did Sarah or Felix have a Krystal wig sitting in the back of their closets ready for a potential clone swap?

Edited June 24, 2016 by Not Beth

[maddie965]

Oh, they have a bag full of tricks: Krystal and Helena wigs, Alison's gym clothes, Cosima glasses, a Dolly mask and also an inflatable Paul doll! You never know who Sarah might need to impersonate next...

Talking about clone swaps, I am rewatching the first season and having the strangest feeling. Watching the first episodes, I remembered how I used to love Sarah back then. But, this season, I could hardly bring myself to like her. I mean, the bot thing and the Felix-looking-for-his-family thing made her grumpy, sure, but the fact is that I found myself liking Sarah less and less - I don't even like her accent! And I used to love her when she was impersonating Beth.

So did I fall in love with the wrong character? Did I love Beth, and therefore I loved Sarah impersonating Beth? If I can't love Sarah for who she really is, is it my mistake? Or is it the writers mistake? Is Sarah only bearable when whe's impersonating someone? Or at least when she has someone adorable (Felix, Cosima, Helena) by her side? Really, I don't know if I could watch a whole series about her...

Edited June 25, 2016 by maddie965

[LeGrandElephant]

I love this show, so I don't want this to come off as too negative. But I was thinking: I usually understand the motivations of Sarah, Alison, Cosima, Donnie, and Felix, because they are usually only reacting to immediate threats. But, I generally have no idea what is going on with the motivations and goals of all the other evil and/or gray characters, and the overall plot line is so convoluted with so many levels of conspiracy that it never quite seems to add up.

For example, if you're trying to design bots for human implantation, why would you design them so that any attempt to remove them results in the death of the human? I can think of one reason: to terrify the humans out of trying to remove it themselves, which I guess was the meta-motivation for the writers to set that up, so that Sarah couldn't just cut it out. But in-show, that doesn't make sense as a motivation, because the neolutionists never warned any of the hosts that poking the bot would kill them. Sarah found that out by accident. So it doesn't make sense as a way of keeping her from messing with the bot. What other reason could there be? Scientists, even those without ethics, typically don't go out of their way to make it so they can't adjust their experiment later. And why would Evie be willing to implant one in herself, knowing that any attempt to remove it or any accident that punctures or crushes it would immediately kill her? 

[Desiree]

2 hours ago, maddie965 said:

Talking about clone swaps, I am rewatching the first season and having the strangest feeling. Watching the first episodes, I remembered how I used to love Sarah back then. But, this season, I could hardly bring myself to like her. I mean, the bot thing and the Felix-looking-for-his-family thing made her grumpy, sure, but the fact is that I found myself liking Sarah less and less - I don't even like her accent! And I used to love her when she was impersonating Beth.

So did I fall in love with the wrong character? Did I love Beth, and therefore I loved Sarah impersonating Beth? If I can't love Sarah for who she really is, is it my mistake? Or is it the writers mistake? Is Sarah only bearable when whe's impersonating someone? Or at least when she has someone adorable (Felix, Cosima, Helena) by her side? Really, I don't know if I could watch a whole series about her...

I could be wrong, but I think that was by design this season. Sarah was very unlikeable this season, where as other seasons you see her as the underdog. The bad girl turning good for the sake of her sisters. This season, we see her dealing with her demons. Which she has many. For me, an avowed Sarah girl, it made her relatable, unlikable, vulnerable, and a myriad of   other things. Mostly, it made her human. The first three seasons, it's like she could do no wrong, even when she was being a lousy mother to Kira, she was the grifter with a heart of gold. This season, I felt like we finally saw the real Sarah, and she's messy, bitchy, not nice, selfish, a druggie, a sex addict, etc. But in this episode we see, she is still willing to risk all for her sisters. It actually makes me love her that much more.  

[MissLucas]

6 hours ago, LeGrandElephant said:

But, I generally have no idea what is going on with the motivations and goals of all the other evil and/or gray characters, and the overall plot line is so convoluted with so many levels of conspiracy that it never quite seems to add up.

 

That has been the show's biggest weakness from the beginning but since the acting and the characters are so great the writers got away with all the murkiness surrounding the clones' enemies and their motivations/plans - but it gets harder to ignore/handwave. That's why I am okay with the show ending next season.

Edited June 25, 2016 by MissLucas

[slf]

2 hours ago, LeGrandElephant said:

For example, if you're trying to design bots for human implantation, why would you design them so that any attempt to remove them results in the death of the human? I can think of one reason: to terrify the humans out of trying to remove it themselves, which I guess was the meta-motivation for the writers to set that up, so that Sarah couldn't just cut it out. But in-show, that doesn't make sense as a motivation, because the neolutionists never warned any of the hosts that poking the bot would kill them. Sarah found that out by accident. So it doesn't make sense as a way of keeping her from messing with the bot. What other reason could there be? Scientists, even those without ethics, typically don't go out of their way to make it so they can't adjust their experiment later. And why would Evie be willing to implant one in herself, knowing that any attempt to remove it or any accident that punctures or crushes it would immediately kill her? 

They might've designed it that way for a number of reasons: to prevent people from removing them before the neolutionists had the info they wanted, to prevent people from trying to opt out of what were likely illegal experiments (and so wouldn't have told the hosts about the trigger), or it's possible they always intended to kill the trial run hosts. Evie might have been promised a bot that didn't have a self-destruct trigger and she assumed because of her status that the neolutionists wouldn't betray her.

But I agree completely with you, the motivations of the various enemies are pretty murky and there have been too many conspiracies on this show. 

[maddie965]

On 25/06/2016 at 3:26 PM, Desiree said:

I could be wrong, but I think that was by design this season. Sarah was very unlikeable this season, where as other seasons you see her as the underdog. The bad girl turning good for the sake of her sisters. This season, we see her dealing with her demons. Which she has many. For me, an avowed Sarah girl, it made her relatable, unlikable, vulnerable, and a myriad of   other things. Mostly, it made her human. The first three seasons, it's like she could do no wrong, even when she was being a lousy mother to Kira, she was the grifter with a heart of gold. This season, I felt like we finally saw the real Sarah, and she's messy, bitchy, not nice, selfish, a druggie, a sex addict, etc. But in this episode we see, she is still willing to risk all for her sisters. It actually makes me love her that much more.  

That actually makes sense. And I did like the humanization of Sarah - my favorite episode is the one where she goes into autodestruction mode. I guess I don't like when she's just being bitchy (most of her scenes with Felix) or plain stupid (going to the island alone to save Cosima). And I missed her being around the other characters more - the interactions usually soften her personality. But yeah, I guess it was intentional, so I can live with it. It's not like I don't have many characters to love.

(LOL that, for a few seconds, I thougth that Tatiana, being the producer, wouldn't want Sarah to be unlikable, since she is the actress playing her. And then it hit me...)

Edited June 27, 2016 by maddie965

[AudienceofOne]

Just watched this and it was disappointingly underwhelming.

I love this show and I spent most of this season marvelling that it remains compelling even as the plot unravels and things get more and more ridiculous. And a lot of things this season were extremely ridiculous. But this episode was so marginal and so incoherent that it's almost pushing me toward seeing it as being on the wrong end of the "silly" spectrum. It seemed more concerned with setting up next season than it did at resolving anything or providing any motivation for people's actions. I feel like it just ended about halfway through fifteen plotlines and half of them weren't that interesting.

If it only has one season left I think that's good.

[TobinAlbers]

Susan was incredibly dumb to think that after telling Rachel that she regrets making her that she wouldn't cut a bitch.  And then later trying to appeal to her as a mother to save Sarah? Girl, bye.

Rachel's boardroom ensemble was fetching and versatile. She went from a business coup to homicidal rampage and never lost a step.

I have to admit I'm soft on Rachel as well despite her double crossing evil tendencies.  She sadly is the epitome of looking for love and acceptance in all the wrong places and doing anything to get it. She's played herself undoubtedly as Susan said- the board sees her as property and not a person - and her ruthless single minded determination to isolate herself distance herself from the clones and be 'unique' is what will ultimately lead her to dying ruined, alone and unloved. But then between her parents and their plans for her, it seems like she never really had a chance.