How I Want The Americans To End

[ThisIsMe]

Things are coming down to the wire.  How do you think the writers are going to wrap things up from a story point of view and also for each of the characters?

I can't see it ending well for Mother Russia or any of the characters in her corner.  I, mean, we're not all on-board with Stan's Thanksgiving toast, but when the rubber meets the road, we still want our messy love affair to continue with America, right?

But who's working for who?  Elizabeth for sure is with Mother Russia ... and for a time I believed that Phillip had moved on, but now I am not so sure.  I think Stan's speech and his family/country loyalties may have tipped him back towards him homeland.

Somehow Renee is going to factor into this.  And Stavos.  

What do you think?

[scrb]

Seems unlikely that they'd send one of their top assets on a desperate attempt to rescue someone who's under tight FBI surveillance.

Considering how much effort they put into implanting the illegals, if one is going to be caught, you want to risk other illegals getting caught?

But I guess they want a dramatic end to the series, even though in reality, these illegals kind of kept going or slid away quietly.

[jnymph]

I totally think Philip is going to turn on Elizabeth.  

[qtpye]

On 3/29/2018 at 7:12 PM, Novel8 said:

Honestly, that is one of the main reason I keep watching this show, besides it being very well done and acted. Whats wrong with you people who are rooting for them to get away and be happy? Stop thinking of a Hollywood ending of years gone by. They deserve to be killed or at least caught. There are a few variables that come to mind. They get caught, life imprisonment, one or both get killed, or betrayed. So far, to me it seems that Elizabeth is the worse of the two, so I think she would get killed or who knows, take that pill that she was given, that is hanging around her neck, in the event things go wrong. As for Phillip, though he seems to come to terms with his conscience, I cannot see him getting absolved. Both of them are killers, and sometimes, in the most ruthless way. Then that leaves Paige..what happens to her? A slap on the wrist? . That is one part of this series that i could not accept..in  last nights show...how quick, she wants to become a spy, and against her own country, which she was so devoted to at the beginning. The one scene in tonight episode shows Elizabeth taking some time to cool down Paige's performance with that sailor, and yet she travels around and just  happens to meet the same sailor and kills him. There is never anyone in sight to witness this...how convient. The Rosenbergs both got the chair, way back when,, and as far as I know, they did not kill anyone, like these 2 have.

 

On 3/29/2018 at 7:17 PM, Umbelina said:

They've killed 33 people so far.  17 for Liz, 16 for Phil, until this episode, they were even.  They are nothing at all like the embedded spies that inspired this story.

 

On 3/29/2018 at 7:29 PM, Erin9 said:

There’s nothing wrong with anyone who would like a happy ending. I would. It won’t happen, but I want it. I don’t care that they’re “bad.” I’ve spent upteen hours getting emotionally invested in their lives. I care about THEM. Seeing as this is fiction, I don’t care that they’ve done bad things. They might not have died or gotten caught yet, but they’ve already been paying. Lost time with their kids; job related difficulties with both kids. There is remorse for some of their victims. The exhaustion we’ve seen. They haven’t exactly been having fun. They’ve generally been stressed and miserable. 

But you are are lucky. You want an unhappy ending. I’m sure that’s what you’ll get. 

 

On 3/29/2018 at 7:50 PM, Erin9 said:

I don’t take TV that seriously. Immoral stuff happens all the time on TV. The extent and way which anyone pays depends on the show. I’ve seen E and P pay in ways that suit me- for a fictional show. Obviously not for the real world. My moral judgment is fine, and if people gets theirs from TV, they have serious issues. 

I said I’ve emotionally invested in the characters over the hours I’ve spent watching the show. Which are many given its runtime. If I didn’t care about the characters, I wouldn’t watch. It would be a waste of my time to watch a show where I didn’t care about the core players. I don’t watch much TV anyway. 

 

On 3/29/2018 at 7:57 PM, Umbelina said:

I don't see them having a "happy ending" but I honestly wouldn't mind it either.

I don't need them to "pay" because that would mean I would need all spies in all movies or books to "pay."  There are never any perfectly good guys who spy on this kind of level.  Aderholt is on home turf, not an embedded spy without cover in someplace like Moscow.  He's able to be "good."  Stan isn't good, he murdered an innocent man. 

I just can't see this working out happily, because of the choices they have made, and not made.  Now that they are both playing around with the BIG boys in the USSR?  On opposite sides?  How in the hell can that possibly work out?  Forget the FBI, the KGB is going to be very pissed at one, or both of them, depending on who wins, and we all know Gorbachev will stay in power, and not be "out" as Elizabeth's mission intends.  Could Philip save her?  Maybe.

After that we get into spoiler territory, courtesy of Holly's latest interview, so I have to drop it.

I think my biggest fear is that we will get a totally ambiguous artsy fartsy ending that will not give us any type of closure on anything. Something like the last scene in the series is E looking in the mirror of her room, P looking in the mirror of some other, they both step out into the hallway and look at each other and then FIN....The End. All the plotlines from Paige, Stan, Renee, and Henry come to nothing. It is just another day in the spy world and our characters are just going to go on with their lives the best they can.

[Chaos Theory]

I know a lot of people have high expectations of this show and I do too but honestly I just want everything to end in a logical fashion.  I don’t hate Paige and I don’t understand the hatred of the character and I would actually love the irony of her growing up to be the next generation of Russian spy.  A Putin hard liner.  I just want to see a glimpse of Martha one last time.  I would love to see Henry grow up to be a capitalist pig.   I am not sure if I want P&E caught or killed.  I never have been.  A part of me likes the idea of them forever trapped in America cut off from everyone and everything they knew on the the run from both sides.  Accomplished nothing.  Accomplishing nothing.    That would be a truly Russian ending.  

Edited May 7, 2018 by Chaos Theory

[Juliegirlj]

I am starting to wonder if Stan figures out who P & E are and super mole Renee coldly kills him to protect her comrades. Stan has too many secrets for a happy ending. 

Alternatively, maybe Henry gets the kind of Dad he always wanted and Stan takes him in after Phillip and Elizabeth are forced to return to Russia and Paige goes on the lamb. 

[Umbelina]

http://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/will-supreme-court-hear-case-of-sons-of-kgb-spies/\

There is more news about the children of two of the Boston embedded spies that were caught in Boston, and traded to the USSR by the FBI.   The FBI watched them, and had their house bugged for 10 years before rounding up the illegals, they were trying to find out more, get them to expose other in their ring of spies. 

I would have loved to see Stan be aware of The Jennings for a while, and be under orders to suck it up and keep acting like their friendly neighbor, but it's just not that kind of show, and the murders make Elizabeth and Philip quite different than the embedded spies the FBI finally arrested in 2010.

However, The Americans may play out with something similar, in some ways.  I expect a huge fight, chase, action, and I really think either Philip or Elizabeth sacrifices to save the other one, or maybe even to save Stan (that would be Philip) but in reality, all of the parents actions will also impact Henry and Paige in so many ways.  I have a feeling we will see some of that devastation (Henry) and something else from spy-girl Paige, maybe even a continuation of her inexplicable devotion to the USSR.

[Chaos Theory]

I am actually curious what the last big 80's song is going to be.   I am pulling for "We Didn't Start The Fire" although it didn't come out until 1989 it fits in well to the story.  

[Umbelina]

20 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

I am actually curious what the last big 80's song is going to be.   I am pulling for "We Didn't Start The Fire" although it didn't come out until 1989 it fits in well to the story.  

There are a few good choices here, I also thought of

 

and of course

 

I do think it will be a song about Philip and Elizabeth's relationship though, their marriage.

This one would work too, this is fun, I hope others had a few ideas.

Oh I, I just died in your arms tonight
It must been some kind of kiss
I should have walked away, I should have walked away

It was a long hot night
She made it easy, she made it feel right
But now it's over the moment has gone
I followed my hands not my head, I knew I was wrong

[Umbelina]

 

This one works too, but I like the others better.

All that time I was searching, nowhere to run to, it started me thinking,
Wondering what I could make of my life, who'd be waiting,
Asking all kinds of questions, to myself, but never finding the answers,
Crying at the top of my voice, no one listening,
All this time, I still remember everything you said
There's so much you promised, how could I ever forget.

Listen, you know I love you, but I just can't take this,
You know I love you, but I'm playing for keeps,
Although I need you, I'm not gonna make this,
You know I want to, but I'm in too deep.

Maybe in honor of Philip they'll go country, but I can't find a 1987 song that fits there.

Edited May 7, 2018 by Umbelina

[Umbelina]

OK, I finally found a country song sung by a man, that could work, provided Elizabeth dies, instead of Philip.

He walked over to the window
He silently stared into space
Then he said, well I just want to protect you
'Cause this world is a dangerous place
She put her arms around him
She said, I know you mean well
But there are lessons I must learn for myself

So if you love me, give me wings

I'm kind of betting on U2 and Philip dying though, in which case, I don't think they'd use country music.

This one wouldn't end the show, but it might be included before that.

Nobody's worried 'bout me
I come and I go, just as I please
Since I set myself free

But I can't win for losin' you
I just can't get over you
Bein' footloose and fancy free
Ain't all it's cracked up to be

And the grass ain't no greener
Here on the other side

Edited May 8, 2018 by Umbelina

[Anela]

I've googled "depressing 80's songs" to see if I can think of anything else. 

[Anela]

 

Haven't we been here before
Footsteps lead down to the note on the door
That says I can't stay here anymore
And haven't we felt this same way
Sure in our hearts, but afraid just the same
To say I can't stay one minute more
You might think that it's hopeless
Beyond our control
But that's not necessarily so
Can't you see there's a chance
For the daring young soul
Who's finally learned to say no
No, I won't be misused
Ignored or refused
And I won't just give up and let go
So tonight hold me close to you
And don't give up what's important to you
And as time rolls on
Nothing can stand in our way
And I believe if we learn from the past
We'd say haven't we been here before
Oh, and I believe if we open our hearts
We'd find keys to unlock every door
Dark would turn into light
We'd be strong
We'd be right
So tonight hold me close to you
And don't give up what's important to you
And as time rolls on
Nothing will stand in our way
And I believe if we learn from the past
We'd say haven't we been here before
Oh, and I believe if we open our hearts
We'd find keys to unlock every door
Hearts could change overnight
We'd be strong...we'd be right
So stay with me now
The future is ours
And we'll be the ones who go on

Not sure about this one, but the lyrics could fit. 

[Anela]

 

This one might be too dramatic/heavy. I'm not so sure that either of them will die. Off to ugly cry now. This song gets me every time. 

Have they already used, "Holding Back The Years". That's one of the first ones I think of, for really sad songs. 

[Halting Hex]

Paige kills Stan.  Duh.

(Stan has finally realized who his neighbors are and is trying to take either Philip or Elizabeth down, all "don't make me do this in front of your kids", and so forth.  He never considers that Paige doesn't want to be "rescued" from "Mother" Russia, and she drills him from behind, confusion on his face, steel-eyed determination on hers.  Philip contemplates the situation, while Elizabeth barks orders about cleaning up the body.  Fleetwood Mac plays "Don't Stop". Fade to black.)

Quote

It'll be here, better than before

Yesterday's gone

Yesterday's gone…

Edited May 8, 2018 by Halting Hex

[misstwpherecool]

My ending is quite simple. Justice for at least one of P & Es murder victims. That means their pictures are plastered all over the news as murderers, not spies, assassins etc. Just cold blooded killers. They need to tried and penalized as killers. They need to profiled and pontificated upon as serial killers or Donohue or Geraldo. Maybe even a mention on Morton Downey.

[Cardie]

Possible endings, in order from their positive to negative effect on the Jenningses:

1. Aware that the FBI is close to proving they are illegals, P&E fake their deaths and return to Moscow. There they have awkward dinners with Martha and Gabriel. On the bright side, Philip gets together with Mischa at last. Paige gets a job at the State Department and Henry becomes a venture capitalist. Stan drives himself crazy with regrets over the spy neighbors who got away.

2. Her arrest imminent, Elizabeth takes the cyanide pill.  Philip turns himself in to Stan and makes a deal to keep his kids out of prison. Prior to her demise, Elizabeth takes out Oleg.

3. Cornered with their covers blown, Philip and Elizabeth kill each other. Stan discovers the bodies. The kids are deported to the USSR.

In all of these scenarios, Claudia survives and continues her life in the KGB. Granny is an effing cockroach.

[Erin9]

The more I think about it, the more an arrest is just not fitting to me. I’m not sure that ever “worked” for me, but since we’re almost at the end- I really don’t like it. 

Now that I’ve said it, watch that be the end. Lol 

[GingerMarie]

Who knew the Georgia Boy would help in the downfall of Elizabeth and Philip.  He told his bosses, the FBI knows and they are going to start follwoing her, just like Harvest.  Elizabeth is going to put out the call that they have been compromised and Claudia is going to set everything in motion for someone to get the Jennings family out.  Henry will be grabbed at school and taken out of the country.  Paige (will be in a bar using her skills to beat people up) no Paige will also be saved but will be reunited with Henry.  Of course Henry is not going to know who she is until she gets her SAD FACE.  Elizabeth, Philip and Stan will have a shoot out.  Elizabeth will be the last man standing and will spend her life in Federal Prison.  

[Chaos Theory]

On 5/7/2018 at 10:19 PM, Halting Hex said:

Paige kills Stan.  Duh.

(Stan has finally realized who his neighbors are and is trying to take either Philip or Elizabeth down, all "don't make me do this in front of your kids", and so forth.  He never considers that Paige doesn't want to be "rescued" from "Mother" Russia, and she drills him from behind, confusion on his face, steel-eyed determination on hers.  Philip contemplates the situation, while Elizabeth barks orders about cleaning up the body.  Fleetwood Mac plays "Don't Stop". Fade to black.)

OH I LIKE THAT!!!!!!!     Paige's final brainwashing  the killing of the one man who might have saved her.  

[BradandJanet]

Parting shot, a FF to the Jennings house. A couple with a young son and daughter are moving in. Probably just a nice family. But, then again, we'll never know. 

[Helena Dax]

A couple of weeks ago I saw a still from a video that is still haunting me. Something like "teens react to life sentences". And in the still there was that girl, wailing with utter desperation, like a child would do. I don't know who she was and what she had one, but it broke my heart. Even if I'm not fond of Paige, I wouldn't wish that for her. 

An ending where P +`E and Paige were caught and arrested would be too neat, I think. I'm pretty sure one of the Jennings won't make it. But at its core, this isn't a show about Russian spies. It's a show about marriage. So I think their relationship will play a very important part in the end. Maybe one of them will sacrifice for the other of something like that.

Edited May 13, 2018 by Helena Dax

[Chaos Theory]

Right now Paige hasn’t done anything she can’t take back.   Despite what Elizabeth says she can change her mind and walk away.   I want her to do something she simply can’t take back.  I want her to make a decision one way or the other she can’t  turn back from.   Whether it’s murdering Stan (I really like that one) or turn on her parents for whatever reason God country (US or Russia) maybe even Claudia gets into her head.  I want one of the last scenes to be Paige committing an act that she can’t take back.

The one thing that would disappoint me is if both Jennings parents get killed.  This show is about marriage more then it is about spying.  Maybe Elizabeth finally sees the light and shadow in her life and tries to sacrifice herself only Philip beats her to it.  Leaving Elizabeth to be the one thing she never really wanted or learned how to be a mother to her two children.   Maybe that’s how the show ends.  Philip leaves her a letter begging her to reverse the damage she did to Paige and fix the neglect of Henry.    

Can Elizabeth Jennings be...Elizabeth Jennings?

Edited May 14, 2018 by Chaos Theory

[Umbelina]

2 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

Right now Paige hasn’t done anything she can’t take back.   Despite what Elizabeth says she can change her mind and walk away.   I want her to do something she simply can’t take back.  I want her to make a decision one way or the other she can’t  turn back from.   Whether it’s murdering Stan (I really like that one) or turn on her parents for whatever reason God country (US or Russia) maybe even Claudia gets into her head.  I want one of the last scenes to be Paige committing an act that she can’t take back.

The one thing that would disappoint me is if both Jennings parents get killed.  This show is about marriage more then it is about spying.  Maybe Elizabeth finally sees the light and shadow in her life and tries to sacrifice herself only Philip beats her to it.  Leaving Elizabeth to be the one thing she never really wanted or learned how to be a mother to her two children.   Maybe that’s how the show ends.  Philip leaves her a letter begging her to reverse the damage she did to Paige and fix the neglect of Henry.    

Can Elizabeth Jennings be...Elizabeth Jennings?

Paige is an accessory to two murders of military people.  She can't take that back.  She was both lookout, and in the case of the General, has concealed evidence.  Her stake outs are also participating in treason.  She wore a disguise and took clandestine photographs for the KGB.  More treason.

She's in it up to her dramatic eyebrows.

[SunnyBeBe]

I think that I still want P & E to survive.  So, I'd like to see the FBI closing in on P & E.  They don't know about Paige at all and think she's just an innocent adult child of the illegals.  But, P & E make a run for escaping capture, along with Paige.  They can't get to Henry and even if they did, there is no time for explanations. They'll have to send for him later.  P, E, and Paige are trying to get to a plane to leave the country with the help of Claudia. In the process, Claudia takes the bullet for the Jennings family and they escape. Claudia dies.   They show them landing in Russia and they show Stan at Henry's school, breaking the news to him.   

My alternate theory is that Stan discovers their identities and confronts Philip, but, he allows P the option of leaving the country with Paige, but, arresting E.  E then commits suicide before her arrest.  Then Stan goes to break the news to Henry. 

Edited May 15, 2018 by SunnyBeBe

[SunnyBeBe]

I'm thinking that this song might fit well for the finale, especially the lyrics:

 

Think about it, there must be higher love
Down in the heart or hidden in the stars above
Without it, life is a wasted time
Look inside your heart, I'll look inside mine
Things look so bad everywhere
In this whole world, what is fair?
We walk blind and we try to see
Falling behind in what could be

Bring me a higher love
Bring me a higher love
Bring me a higher love
Where's that higher love I keep thinking of?

Worlds are turning and we're just hanging on
Facing our fear and standing out there alone
A yearning, and it's real to me
There must be someone who's feeling for me
Things look so bad everywhere
In this whole world, what is fair?
We walk blind and we try to see
Falling behind in what could be

Bring me a higher love
Bring me a higher love
Bring me…

[hellmouse]

2 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I think that I still want P & E to survive.  So, I'd like to see the FBI closing in on P & E.  They don't know about Paige at all and think she's just an innocent adult child of the illegals.  But, P & E make a run for escaping capture, along with Paige.  They can't get to Henry and even if they did, there is no time for explanations. They'll have to send for him later.  P, E, and Paige are trying to get to a plane to leave the country with the help of Claudia. In the process, Claudia takes the bullet for the Jennings family and they escape. Claudia dies.   They show them landing in Russia and they show Stan at Henry's school, breaking the news to him.   

My alternate theory is that Stan discovers their identities and confronts Philip, but, he allows P the option of leaving the country with Paige, but, arresting E.  E then commits suicide before her arrest.  Then Stan goes to break the news to Henry. 

I want P & E to survive too!

I like the idea of Philip & Elizabeth escaping the FBI. But maybe they can't all leave together. Paige has to leave separately and fails to get away (final example of her not being cut out for this life). She gets brought in for questioning and cracks and is ultimately given a lenient sentence in exchange for telling them everything she knows about her parents, Claudia, Gabriel, etc. Maybe her intel helps the FBI arrest Claudia. 

[SunnyBeBe]

It just seems that the writers would want Paige to witness someone get killed.  It might be too traumatic for it to be a parent or Stan, that's why I thought it might be Claudia. Someone that she knows well and will have serious impact, but, jolts her into the reality.  I've also thought that if Paige sees a killing, she might tell her parents to go on without her and she stays behind.  At least, until the Russians can negotiate a trade for her and Henry.  Still......I've never been able to envision Henry leaving the US.  I suppose he won't have a choice though.  Any chance that Henry could get refuge in Canada? Or would that not work?

[sistermagpie]

41 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

It just seems that the writers would want Paige to witness someone get killed.  It might be too traumatic for it to be a parent or Stan, that's why I thought it might be Claudia. Someone that she knows well and will have serious impact, but, jolts her into the reality.  I've also thought that if Paige sees a killing, she might tell her parents to go on without her and she stays behind.  At least, until the Russians can negotiate a trade for her and Henry.  Still......I've never been able to envision Henry leaving the US.  I suppose he won't have a choice though.  Any chance that Henry could get refuge in Canada? Or would that not work?

It's interesting that Paige doesn't seem to care about Marilyn being dead at all. Elizabeth told Philip that they weren't close (as always the most important thing is how Paige will feel about something personally) but she still worked with the woman and she's clearly not having any particular reaction to someone she knows and works with being dead now.

[SunnyBeBe]

I do realize that Paige saw her mom kill the guy in the parking lot who came after them, but, that was more a case of self defense.  I think that a different scenario would really impact her, like one of them getting shot as they try to escape or E or Claudia killing an FBI agent.  I think that might really freak her out. 

[sistermagpie]

1 hour ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I do realize that Paige saw her mom kill the guy in the parking lot who came after them, but, that was more a case of self defense.  I think that a different scenario would really impact her, like one of them getting shot as they try to escape or E or Claudia killing an FBI agent.  I think that might really freak her out. 

Though tbf the guy in the parking lot *did* freak her out. She slept in a closet for months after it. I wonder if it would be different seeing her dad to it since her mom practically defines herself by this ability at this point. Paige sees her mother hitting people all the time and even when Philip fought with her he just held her.

[hellmouse]

1 minute ago, sistermagpie said:

Though tbf the guy in the parking lot *did* freak her out. She slept in a closet for months after it. I wonder if it would be different seeing her dad to it since her mom practically defines herself by this ability at this point. Paige sees her mother hitting people all the time and even when Philip fought with her he just held her.

Imagine Paige seeing her father chop off Marilyn's head with an axe. LOL.

[Chaos Theory]

22 hours ago, Umbelina said:

Paige is an accessory to two murders of military people.  She can't take that back.  She was both lookout, and in the case of the General, has concealed evidence.  Her stake outs are also participating in treason.  She wore a disguise and took clandestine photographs for the KGB.  More treason.

She's in it up to her dramatic eyebrows.

But see that is where we essentially disagree on Paige.  She hasn’t yet committed an overt act.   Yeah she has sat in a car while her mother has and taken some pictures but that isn’t anything she can’t just walk away from like her mother says.  It’s not like she put anyone in a suitcase or chopped someone’s head and hands off.  Yet I would think there at people who feel more compassion for Philip then they do Paige which confounds me.   I think people look for reasons to hate Paige and reasons to forgive Philip.  If Elizabeth and Paige die in the end And Philip and Henry walk off to America the beautiful I think some people would find that a perfect ending.  

Edited May 15, 2018 by Chaos Theory

[sistermagpie]

6 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

But see that is where we essentially disagree on Paige.  She hasn’t yet committed an overt act.   Yeah she has sat in a car while her mother has and taken some pictures but that isn’t anything she can’t just walk away from like her mother says.  It’s not like she put anyone in a suitcase or chopped someone’s head and hands off.  Yet I would think there at people who feel more compassion for Philip then they do Paige which confounds me.   I think people look for reasons to hate Paige and reasons to forgive Philip.  If Elizabeth and Paige die in the end And Philip and Henry walk off to America the beautiful I think some people would find that a perfect ending.  

It seems like you're both using totally different definitions of "things she can't take back." Umbelina is talking about legal consequences--she's an accessory to important crimes. You're talking about things that Paige has done herself that will leave a mark on her like Philip has and there, as you say, there's really nothing. She hasn't hurt any innocent people or killed anyone or betrayed them. She's just sat in cars and taken pictures. Her soul remains untouched--so much so that she doesn't even know about the crimes she was an accessory to. She's even more innocent than early seasons Martha in her denial. 

[qtpye]

3 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

It just seems that the writers would want Paige to witness someone get killed.  It might be too traumatic for it to be a parent or Stan, that's why I thought it might be Claudia. Someone that she knows well and will have serious impact, but, jolts her into the reality.  I've also thought that if Paige sees a killing, she might tell her parents to go on without her and she stays behind.  At least, until the Russians can negotiate a trade for her and Henry.  Still......I've never been able to envision Henry leaving the US.  I suppose he won't have a choice though.  Any chance that Henry could get refuge in Canada? Or would that not work?

I never even thought about how Henry would react to living in Russia. I would imagine that he would hate it there (at least while Communism is still around) after growing up in the relative freedom and comfort of being an upper-middle-class kid in the United States.

[Erin9]

10 minutes ago, qtpye said:

I never even thought about how Henry would react to living in Russia. I would imagine that he would hate it there (at least while Communism is still around) after growing up in the relative freedom and comfort of being an upper-middle-class kid in the United States.

Reality is- I think Paige would too. Regardless of her Russian lessons. It’s just so different in ways she’s had zero preparation for. Not that I really think one can truly prepare to move from a comfortable lifestyle in a democracy to a much less comfortable one in a dictatorship. 

[Umbelina]

4 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I think that I still want P & E to survive.  So, I'd like to see the FBI closing in on P & E.  They don't know about Paige at all and think she's just an innocent adult child of the illegals.  But, P & E make a run for escaping capture, along with Paige.  They can't get to Henry and even if they did, there is no time for explanations. They'll have to send for him later.  P, E, and Paige are trying to get to a plane to leave the country with the help of Claudia. In the process, Claudia takes the bullet for the Jennings family and they escape. Claudia dies.   They show them landing in Russia and they show Stan at Henry's school, breaking the news to him.   

My alternate theory is that Stan discovers their identities and confronts Philip, but, he allows P the option of leaving the country with Paige, but, arresting E.  E then commits suicide before her arrest.  Then Stan goes to break the news to Henry. 

Stan will not "confront" Philip until he's there to arrest him.  Stan is a professional.  He's in spy mode now, not friend mode.

4 hours ago, hellmouse said:

I want P & E to survive too!

I like the idea of Philip & Elizabeth escaping the FBI. But maybe they can't all leave together. Paige has to leave separately and fails to get away (final example of her not being cut out for this life). She gets brought in for questioning and cracks and is ultimately given a lenient sentence in exchange for telling them everything she knows about her parents, Claudia, Gabriel, etc. Maybe her intel helps the FBI arrest Claudia. 

Paige would be arrested.  Full stop.  She might get a lighter sentence for giving up Claudia and the other agents/assets she knows, she'd still be deported or imprisoned.

3 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

It just seems that the writers would want Paige to witness someone get killed.  It might be too traumatic for it to be a parent or Stan, that's why I thought it might be Claudia. Someone that she knows well and will have serious impact, but, jolts her into the reality.  I've also thought that if Paige sees a killing, she might tell her parents to go on without her and she stays behind.  At least, until the Russians can negotiate a trade for her and Henry.  Still......I've never been able to envision Henry leaving the US.  I suppose he won't have a choice though.  Any chance that Henry could get refuge in Canada? Or would that not work?

I agree that Paige will probably witness people being killed.  I think it will be more than just one or both of her parents, but I really don't see both of the Jennings getting out of this alive.  It would have far more impact to me to see Elizabeth witnessing Paige being killed, after Paige tried something idiotic to save them.  PLEASE WRITERS don't put the finally emotional scenes on someone who can't act, when you have so many other people who really, really CAN.

3 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

It's interesting that Paige doesn't seem to care about Marilyn being dead at all. Elizabeth told Philip that they weren't close (as always the most important thing is how Paige will feel about something personally) but she still worked with the woman and she's clearly not having any particular reaction to someone she knows and works with being dead now.

It's bizarre. 

2 hours ago, hellmouse said:

Imagine Paige seeing her father chop off Marilyn's head with an axe. LOL.

Welcome to the KGB!  Here's what we really do on missions honey.

1 hour ago, Chaos Theory said:

But see that is where we essentially disagree on Paige.  She hasn’t yet committed an overt act.   Yeah she has sat in a car while her mother has and taken some pictures but that isn’t anything she can’t just walk away from like her mother says.  It’s not like she put anyone in a suitcase or chopped someone’s head and hands off.  Yet I would think there at people who feel more compassion for Philip then they do Paige which confounds me.   I think people look for reasons to hate Paige and reasons to forgive Philip.  If Elizabeth and Paige die in the end And Philip and Henry walk off to America the beautiful I think some people would find that a perfect ending.  

As @sistermagpie said, I'm talking about legal consequences.  She's guilty as hell of both accessory to murder, and treason.  The guy who sits in the car as lookout for a bank or store robbery where someone is killed?  Is equally guilty under the law.

5 minutes ago, Erin9 said:

Reality is- I think Paige would too. Regardless of her Russian lessons. It’s just so different in ways she’s had zero preparation for. Not that I really think one can truly prepare to move from a comfortable lifestyle in a democracy to a much less comfortable one in a dictatorship. 

I'd love to see her sorry ass in the Soviet Union as it falls.  Here's what you've be "fighting for" spy girl.  Live it, love it, learn it.

[sistermagpie]

34 minutes ago, Erin9 said:

Reality is- I think Paige would too. Regardless of her Russian lessons. It’s just so different in ways she’s had zero preparation for. Not that I really think one can truly prepare to move from a comfortable lifestyle in a democracy to a much less comfortable one in a dictatorship. 

Definitely she would hate it. There's no indication she's really even thought about it as a real place beyond Claudia and Elizabeth's stories. Not only would it be a big change culturally but if she felt like an outsider in the USA she'd be far more of one in the USSR. Nor would anybody there--at least people her own age--be particularly eager to welcome her with all the things she knows about the place etc. You think you're annoyed listen to kids in D.C. talking about politics when they don't "get it?" Have fun listening to kids in Moscow talking about...well, it'll be a while before you even have a clue what they're talking about. (I'd have more confidence in Henry being able to get a handle on the language faster by having an easier time finding relationships.)

 

23 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

It's bizarre. 

It again goes back to Paige's problems about "being alone" coming down to her personality more than anything else. She just doesn't really care about that many other people that much. The only time she seems to feel less alone is when she's getting *attention* from important people like Pastor Tim or her mother. Marilyn is part of the Cause and as such she should consider her "one of us" but she doesn't seem to much. Not even in an intellectual way. 

Of course, her mother also started out not looking for relationships and she had Gregory and then Philip, but Paige's unique combination of being terribly lonely and yet terribly uninterested in people at the same time don't seem very promising as a basis for a romance. 

[Umbelina]

Paige would be slotted into a CHARM SCHOOL situation in the USSR, if not right away, then eventually, when Putin took over.

She's be great at teaching recruits how to act like a spoiled brat, know it all, selfish American. ;)  Really though, helping with language skills and cultural skills is something she could, and probably would do over there.

Also, honestly I wouldn't mind Philip and Misha meeting up in the USSR.  I just don't think Philip's getting out of this alive, but it would be nice to have season 5's story of Misha finally pay off.  Elizabeth meeting him, after Philip's death?  Might work as well, Elizabeth would tear up the screen in that scene, words not even needed.

[sistermagpie]

3 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

Also, honestly I wouldn't mind Philip and Misha meeting up in the USSR.  I just don't think Philip's getting out of this alive, but it would be nice to have season 5's story of Misha finally pay off.  Elizabeth meeting him, after Philip's death?  Might work as well, Elizabeth would tear up the screen in that scene, words not even needed.

The main reason I would like to see Philip go back to the USSR is to see his family. I will never understand why the show thought that was so unimportant. They gave us Mischa's own story but that's just not as interesting without Philip in it. Now we know there's four people in the USSR who think about Philip and consider him family, but for some reason it's meaningless. I just don't get it. How is that not equally emotional as Elizabeth and her mother continuing to play out the same ideas about duty as Elizabeth plays out with Paige? Why do Elizabeth's own family ties inform her relationship to her daughter while Philip's don't inform anything?

If Philip did die I would be interested in seeing that family get the news. Seems like it would be a nice comment somehow.

[Umbelina]

Can't you just see Elizabeth meeting with Misha though, Elizabeth being the one to tell him, Elizabeth talking about his dad to him, Elizabeth doing one last thing for Philip?  It would be mostly music and montage and Kerry would nail the fuck out of a scene like that.   Searching out and finding the only thing left of Philip for her in the USSR (assuming her own children are either dead, imprisoned, or still in the USA?)

Edited May 15, 2018 by Umbelina

[SunnyBeBe]

1 hour ago, Umbelina said:

 

As @sistermagpie said, I'm talking about legal consequences.  She's guilty as hell of both accessory to murder, and treason.  The guy who sits in the car as lookout for a bank or store robbery where someone is killed?  Is equally guilty under the law.

I'd love to see her sorry ass in the Soviet Union as it falls.  Here's what you've be "fighting for" spy girl.  Live it, love it, learn it.

But, how would the FBI know that Paige was involved in any missions, crimes, surveilance, etc.? Not unless P, E, Claudia, etc. ratted her out and I can't see that happening.  I suppose they could have some video cameras somewhere, but, short of that, no one else knows that she was helping her mom out.  Marilyn is dead, so, I don't know where they would get their evidence, if she just keeps her mouth shut. 

[Umbelina]

1 minute ago, SunnyBeBe said:

But, how would the FBI know that Paige was involved in any missions, crimes, surveilance, etc.? Not unless P, E, Claudia, etc. ratted her out and I can't see that happening.  I suppose they could have some video cameras somewhere, but, short of that, no one else knows that she was helping her mom out.  Marilyn is dead, so, I don't know where they would get their evidence, if she just keeps her mouth shut. 

You honestly believe that inept Paige, emotionally upset over her parent's deaths or capture or departure to the USSR would stand up under FBI questioning?

She wouldn't.  Not a chance in hell.  They could trip her up without breaking a sweat.

[hellmouse]

24 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

Can't you just see Elizabeth meeting with Misha though, Elizabeth being the one to tell him, Elizabeth talking about his dad to him, Elizabeth doing one last thing for Philip?  It would be mostly music and montage and Kerry would nail the fuck out of a scene like that.   Searching out and finding the only thing left of Philip for her in the USSR (assuming her own children are either dead, imprisoned, or still in the USA?)

You're right that it would be moving and emotional. BUT. I don't want to see it. Because once again, something that is truly about Philip would be presented to us as being about other people. Philip's life is now a reason for Mischa and Elizabeth to meet. It would make me mad. I don't want to see Mischa again, because it's just a reminder of how ridiculous his existence and his mother and his futile journey to the US was. It was such a waste of time in terms of the larger story. IMO.

I think we've seen the last of him - I think Gabriel wrapped up the story lines of Martha and Mischa by giving them families. He knew that Philip didn't want them to be alone, and now they're not. 

[SunnyBeBe]

4 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

You honestly believe that inept Paige, emotionally upset over her parent's deaths or capture or departure to the USSR would stand up under FBI questioning?

She wouldn't.  Not a chance in hell.  They could trip her up without breaking a sweat.

She doesn't seem to know much about spying and that might be to her benefit if the FBI starts snooping. I hope she got rid of those books she bought on espionage. But, still, there has to be some evidence that you committed the crime, other than a confession.  Seriously, I suppose the FBI may not care about things like that, but, I still think she could escape all charges if she would just stay silent.  Of course, she may not have the ability.  Too bad they haven't given her the "how to beat a polygraph" course yet. lol

[Umbelina]

@hellmouse  It would mean that the season 5 Misha arc had a purpose.  The montage would be full of flashbacks of Philip, and probably, mostly done without words.

@SunnyBeBe  Paige would be screwed up under questioning and give herself away.  She would end up confessing.  There is NO chance, zero, none that Paige could defeat FBI interrogators.  NONE.

[SunnyBeBe]

4 minutes ago, hellmouse said:

You're right that it would be moving and emotional. BUT. I don't want to see it. Because once again, something that is truly about Philip would be presented to us as being about other people. Philip's life is now a reason for Mischa and Elizabeth to meet. It would make me mad. I don't want to see Mischa again, because it's just a reminder of how ridiculous his existence and his mother and his futile journey to the US was. It was such a waste of time in terms of the larger story. IMO.

I think we've seen the last of him - I think Gabriel wrapped up the story lines of Martha and Mischa by giving them families. He knew that Philip didn't want them to be alone, and now they're not. 

So, I wonder if P and E don't make it back and don't survive, Gabriel will help find Paige and Henry a family back in Russia, (once they arrive.)  Maybe, with Oleg?  

[Umbelina]

5 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

It just seems that the writers would want Paige to witness someone get killed.  It might be too traumatic for it to be a parent or Stan, that's why I thought it might be Claudia. Someone that she knows well and will have serious impact, but, jolts her into the reality.  I've also thought that if Paige sees a killing, she might tell her parents to go on without her and she stays behind.  At least, until the Russians can negotiate a trade for her and Henry.  Still......I've never been able to envision Henry leaving the US.  I suppose he won't have a choice though.  Any chance that Henry could get refuge in Canada? Or would that not work?

Canada doesn't even want the Canadian born children of the family that partly inspired this entire show.

So no.  Not a chance they'd take Henry.

[Erin9]

10 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

Canada doesn't even want the Canadian born children of the family that partly inspired this entire show.

So no.  Not a chance they'd take Henry.

I can’t realistically think the US would want Paige or Henry to stay either It’s hard for me to see them getting to stay in the US when their parents are outted as Russian spies. There’s just no way imo. That seems like a very real price they’ll have pay. If we see any kind of future for them. 

35 minutes ago, hellmouse said:

 

I think we've seen the last of him - I think Gabriel wrapped up the story lines of Martha and Mischa by giving them families. He knew that Philip didn't want them to be alone, and now they're not. 

I think you’re right. Gabriel fixed things for Philip’s sake (maybe out of his own guilt too), and that’s it. I’d like to see Mischa again, but I doubt it. But I wanted him to see Philip and his siblings.

I wonder if Paige and Henry will ever know they have a brother. I’m not holding my breath- unless it’s maybe in a - I didn’t know my father kind of context. 

[SunnyBeBe]

I like this one, even though it's from 1981, especially, if E gives P an ultimatum.  I just can't see him doing anything to really hurt E.  

 

Did you think I could hate you
Or raise my hands to you
Now come on you know me too well
How could I hurt you
When darling I love you
And you know I'd never, never hurt you

What do you think
I would give at this moment