S04.E13: Persona Non Grata

[SunnyBeBe]

I was asking about Miska having an accent, since I would anticipate that he would be introduced to Stan, Pastor Tim, Alice, etc. as Philip's son from a previous relationship.  I suppose Paige and Henry will be very surprised.  Will Paige get the real story?

[Umbelina]

I seriously doubt Philip will be introducing him to anyone, except perhaps his wife.  Possibly his kids at the end of the show if he's still alive.

Edited June 9, 2016 by Umbelina

[Bannon]

18 minutes ago, stagmania said:

This is actually a really common character trope that a whole boatload of shows are based around, commonly referred to as a Vocational Irony Narrative. The super competent fixer can't fix their own life, the intuitive detective completely misses what's going on with their own loved ones, etc. I don't actually agree that Stan is stupid (is the guy not allowed to have a light-hearted goofy moment?), but even if you read it as him being incompetent in his own life despite his job skills, that's a perfectly valid characterization choice. 

He's bad at his job, too. The guy who chose undercover work over his marriage (and make no mistake, people who make that choice know they are putting a good marriage at a very low priority), gets all angsty when his marriage fails, to the point that he falls like a stupid sap for the gorgeous KGB agent. Good grief. Use her for sex? Sure. Stan should be a near sociopathic user of people. Actually care about her, to the point of being manipulated by her? No, no, no, not unless Stan is also too dumb to know that the father of a 15 year old isn't going to think it is funny that she is making out with Stan's 18 year old son.

[RedHawk]

Superbowl XVIII was payed in Tampa, FL, on January 22, 1984. Kickoff was at 4:45 pm according to Wikipedia. On the East Coast in winter it would probably have been dark by 5:30 or so. Don't see how long the game lasted, but don't they average about 3 hours?

P&E got home maybe at 8:30. Perhaps after the safe house they went out for dinner? :-) (Steak 'n' Ale!) They deserve a quiet meal to themselves now and then...

[Umbelina]

12 minutes ago, Darrenbrett said:

LOL. But all you're doing in saying this is re-enforcing your preconceptions. You're saying, "Yes, he's grandfatherly.. but WAIT! that's just a rouse. It's a tactic! It's in Master Spy Manual Chapter 3: Being Grandfatherly!

I'm saying that, beyond all that, I think much of his behavior with P & E is sincere. Yes, I think he's a battle-heartened veteran. But I also think he genuinely cares for his agents - and believes in an underlying principle that he sees as ultimately serving the whole world.

I know!

I don't trust spies. 

Recent events have proven that you are probably right though, especially Misha surfacing.  Still, he'd kill them all, including Paige and Henry, in a heartbeat if Center told him to do it.  He played William like a fiddle too.  He's manipulative, and being grandfatherly is a huge part of that.  I think he's most honest in the few scenes we've seen him have with Claudia.  That's the only time we really see him not "working" someone. 

Bob Baer, former CIA, said that he often used his mother as cover, usually without telling her.  He also said one of the best covers were babies, no one suspected someone with a baby or toddler. 

Spies are not trustworthy people.  Ha!

Edited June 9, 2016 by Umbelina

[sistermagpie]

9 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I was asking about Miska having an accent, since I would anticipate that he would be introduced to Stan, Pastor Tim, Alice, etc. as Philip's son from a previous relationship.  I suppose Paige and Henry will be very surprised.  Will Paige get the real story?

I can't imagine Philip would ever be introducing the kid around that way. 

[RedHawk]

4 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

I seriously doubt Philip will be introducing him to anyone, except perhaps his wife.  Possibly his kids at the end of the show if he's still alive.

Just assuming that Misha will show up on the Jennings' doorstep early next season, and then be casually introduced to everyone, seems way out there to me. Highly unlikely. These are people who work hard to blend in and call zero attention to themselves. 

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

The Americans Face The Possibility That They've Been The Victims Of A Sick Burn

When William proves how right he was about certain disease samples getting in the wrong hands (literally), Elizabeth and Philip are forced to consider the nuclear option (not literally).

[scartact]

2 hours ago, stagmania said:

I enjoyed this episode and the season overall, but one thing that I've been consistently waiting for is for Philip and Elizabeth to have a real conversation about their waning commitment to the cause and possibly quitting and what it would mean to move the family back to Russia versus other options. They keep teasing at it, but never really going there, and Philip really isn't very responsive whenever Elizabeth tries to talk to him, despite all that est training. I'm sure this is intentional, but I really hope we're heading for a proper exploration of these things between them, because I've been waiting for them to air this out for what feels like forever. 

I feel like this entire season has been laying the foundation for them to really consider the reality of that situation. It's easier to talk about going to Russia or defecting in theory, but when the reality sets, then the true practicality of it comes out. We've been certain since the beginning that Philip more likely than not would defect, and most of what keeps him attached to the job is Elizabeth's steadfastness. So, it is a major turning point that Elizabeth's emotions are having more depth and weight, and I especially think it's in response to Philip and his own explorations of validating his viscerally emotive responses to their work.

I also think too that on some level Philip and their family have slowly come to replace Elizabeth's foundation, which seemed solidly built upon both her admiration of her community rebuilding itself from the ruins of war and her mother's absolute certainty in giving her up for the greater cause of their country. (Well, also probably her father's desertion resulting in his death. Funny how I can come up with all these reasons, yet I still don't have enough of a sense for Philip!)

 

2 hours ago, Umbelina said:

Also, meant to mention this.  I think it would be a huge mistake for Philip and Elizabeth to suddenly "go on a trip" to a safe-house right now.  If they're going to Russia, fine, but if not?  It would probably be too much of a coincidence considering the FBI lives across the street. 

I thought it was left open that if Philip and Elizabeth choose exfiltration, then they would go to a safe house? Gabriel mentioned it was their choice, and I also think given the severity of the situation, if they chose exfiltration, there probably wouldn't be a spade for them to hesitate and turn back. Well, at least that's my assumption.

1 hour ago, TV Anonymous said:

If William was in such a delirium state when he talked about 'American Dream', why was he still speaking English? When one is no longer able to control the stream of one's consciousness, would the mother's tongue not prevail?

Not sure, but William has been in the States for 30ish years and hasn't been allowed to speak any Russian whatsoever, so he hasn't practiced his native tongue in so long that maybe he no longer has that immediate mental access to it anymore? I'm not sure since I don't know much about language acquisition especially in adults and especially if the speaker no longer practices his native tongue.

[Bannon]

8 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

Moving this comment to this post.

 Spies in movies are super heros that know everything, unless they are some misfit civilian accidentally roped into the spy world, then they are just so very clever and out fox everyone.   I think this show is much more realistic about the failings of spies, who are, in reality, just people, with faults, with luck, with bad luck.  Nothing is a sure thing in spying. 

Yes, Stan is trained.  Guess what?  So are Elizabeth and Philip.  They are also very very good at covering because they do it, day in and day out, and have for 20 years.  They have much more experience than Stan at undercover work.

Stan went undercover for a couple of years, in the USA, and just about lost it.  Mostly he's overt, not a covert agent.  He would probably spot tells in civilians, but in other very well trained spies?  Not so much.

I've liked many of Stan's scenes.  He stood up to Gaad.  He doggedly followed his hunch about Martha and exposed her.  As far as him not suspecting the Jennings?  Why would he?  He's rarely home anyway, he may as well suspect his next door neighbors as well, not just the family across the street.  Seeing KGB everywhere he looked would be the sign of an agent that needs to retire.  I agree that he got roped in when the KGB learned about Nina and turned her, but again, the man was still reeling from his skin head embed, and his wife and son now people he didn't even know, so he was in a particularly vulnerable place in his life.  Human.  His read on Nina wasn't even wrong, she was legit, until caught.

I've never stated he should suspect the Jennings (although the composite sketches of the Jennings that should be piling up is problematic), I stated that the personality and behavior of Stan is very badly matched with who he is supposed to be. I never stated that he should be a superhero. I stated he should be a borderline sociopath.

We aren't going to agree. That's ok.

[gwhh]

8 hours ago, Umbelina said:

I always had an answering machine, so I think they were pretty common by 1984. 

They were becoming common at that time-1984.  They would take off in popular as the cost and the size of them went down in the next few years!   By 1990 just about everyone had one!  I Remember my dad coming home around 1988 with a state of the art one that had a micro-cassette in and did everything by make the coffee in the morning.  I remember this because my dad was very cheap and hardly every brought brand new stuff.  So any time he come home with something brand new and/or high tech its a very  vivid memory. 

Edited June 9, 2016 by gwhh

[Umbelina]

Oh!  I also meant to say that the only really unrealistic thing I caught was that nurses were dressed in gloves, paper masks, and surgical covers.

Yeah no.  Wouldn't they all be in Hazmat suits for that dangerous a contamination? 

[jjj]

It is not just that Mischa would have an accent -- we saw no evidence that he knows any English.  It is hard enough to find a random travel agent who is fully assimilated -- I'd say it is well-nigh impossible if one does not have a good command of English.  It is not like the KGB is going to be helping him -- he is already persona non grata in the Soviet Union because of his actions.  If Irina has not left instructions that say "'X' marks the spot", Mischa would have a tough time. 

[Umbelina]

Yeah, I really think Misha needs to examine all of that money.  If she didn't leave a clue in that (perhaps even writing it out on one of the bills) then Misha wouldn't have a chance in hell of ever finding Philip.  That's another reason he may be killed while escaping.  What good is a Canadian passport if you only speak Russian?  Well, it's still good, you could simply not speak, or answer "yes" or "no" I suppose.  Then again, many Russians learn French in school, so that might work in Canada.

We shall see...

[scartact]

2 minutes ago, jjj said:

It is not just that Mischa would have an accent -- we saw no evidence that he knows any English.  It is hard enough to find a random travel agent who is fully assimilated -- I'd say it is well-nigh impossible if one does not have a good command of English.  It is not like the KGB is going to be helping him -- he is already persona non grata in the Soviet Union because of his actions.  If Irina has not left instructions that say "'X' marks the spot", Mischa would have a tough time. 

I'm really amused the only thing Lil Phil has going for him is travel agent and America. That shouldn't be hard at all! Where is this kid going to even start? Maybe it'll be awhile till he formally interacts with the Jennings. I already miss when the debate was whether or not he was real.

[jjj]

I was *really* hoping for some explanation of what the Russians wanted with Gaad -- or a Martha update.  I see in some of the reviews that I am not the only one who thought we would see Martha whenever the cityscape switched to Russia! 

I wonder if KGB will ever learn about what happened to William, or if they will continue to think he is in custody.  Poor William -- invisible in life, and now his death is invisible. 

[RedHawk]

I'm not certain that Oleg is going to get out of the U.S. easily. So far it looks like he's going to get clear, but Tatiana seems like maybe not a woman scorned but a woman hurt that he's suddenly just not into her anymore. She might put some clues together... 

I'm also not at all imagining that Misha will quickly appear in the U.S. and contact his father. It's possible that "Distant Cousin Semenov from the Old Country" might visit and even be introduced to Paige and Henry, but I think they'll use Misha in a much more interesting way. I have a feeling he will somehow interact with Philip and be the one to tell Philip what a mess things are back in Mother Russia.

So is Paige into Matthew or just working him? I can't figure her out. In some ways she may have revived her old crush, and feel a connection with him because they're both going through difficult parental situations. On the other hand, how could she possibly be into a guy with that hairstyle?

Edited June 9, 2016 by RedHawk

[AliShibaz]

4 hours ago, SeanC said:

Well, he's got a ton of cash.  That will get a man far, in most times and places.

I don't know if it's a "ton of cash". The one bill I saw was a Canadian one dollar bill. If Irina was leaving him a lot of money, surely she would have made it $100 or $50 or even $20 bills. Then again, there is really no telling just how much cash was in that pile. It could have been almost any amount.

I'd really appreciate hearing from anyone with an opinion as to just why Irina wouldn't leave him info re his father in that pouch. I can't really remember just what the situation with Irina was at that time. I recall that she was planning to run away from the KGB and escape that life. I suppose she must have been arrested when she was found. Does that sound reasonable? If so, she must have had some advance time and known that she could have sent Misha Jr. some info one way or another. But I'm really not clear about the details. Would anyone know (or care to guess) just what her circumstances were before she got arrested and how she may have tried to get some info to her son? I'm guessing that I may be asking for the impossible. But I sure would love to hear any opinions regarding how she could have planned to get some info to him and why she failed to do that. Alternatively, maybe she did not fail and we have yet to see just how she managed to get that info to him. It all seems like a rather delicious plot line to me.

[Athena]

On 2016-06-09 at 0:31 PM, RedHawk said:

So is Paige into Matthew or just working him? I can't figure her out. In some ways she may have revived her old crush, and feel a connection with him because they're both going through difficult parental situations. On the other hand, how could she possibly be into a guy with that hairstyle?

Ha! I actually think she's into him a little bit and working him. I think they had a genuine moment talking about their parents, but her body language to initiate the kiss seemed calculated. They are both teenagers so it's not a surprise that they would be interested in each other physically and Paige has become very pretty since S1 when they first met. I think for Paige, her worlds are blurring. It's why she is now defaulting to reporting to her mom and going through social structures. Ever since the Pastor's disappearance scare, she has been on edge and playing people she cares about. She's become use to putting up an act and reporting. It's become normal for her and she may not realize how much she is manipulating people. Now she's playing a guy she probably does like. Furthermore, she's becoming scared that her parents and the family will be broken apart by the truth of what they do. It motivates her to keep up appearances. Poor Philip though. He's realizing his baby girl is doing some nascent honeypot training.

[RedHawk]

Yeah, and ole Stan nearly lit the match to Philip's smoldering rage. Had it not been for the fear she is trying to work Matthew, Philip could have kept his composure and laughed it off in front of Stan, maybe made a joke that Henry would have to start seeving as chaperone, and then had a normal little chat with Paige and forbidden her to be alone in a house with Matthew again.  Typical dad stuff. This situation is so not typical. 

[SunnyBeBe]

What  I didn't get is that if Paige isn't trying to work Matthew, then why didn't she say, Dad, I'm not working him. I really LIKE him.  She has no trouble insisting on everything else she wants.  This would be the time to speak up. 

[AliShibaz]

1 hour ago, jjj said:

I was *really* hoping for some explanation of what the Russians wanted with Gaad -- or a Martha update.  I see in some of the reviews that I am not the only one who thought we would see Martha whenever the cityscape switched to Russia! 

I wonder if KGB will ever learn about what happened to William, or if they will continue to think he is in custody.  Poor William -- invisible in life, and now his death is invisible. 

Yes indeed. I feel the audience is owed an explanation about what happened to Gaad and why.

You are exactly right about that.

Where is that explanation and why wouldn't the show runners give us one? Do you think we should be expecting it next season? If so, do you think we should know it will be coming? It just seems wrong to deprive us in that way. You can call me a cry baby if you like.  Boo Hoo!

[crashdown]

8 hours ago, AliShibaz said:

I seem to recall there is some other TV show or movie in which a married man tells his wife that he had a child with another woman many, many years ago and at first she freaks out but then agrees to accept the child (who is almost an adult) and she is willing to welcome them into her home. Does anyone know the show or movie to which I'm referring?

Hey, yeah!  Me, too!  Wasn't that the movie that came on right after the Giligan's Island episode when they almost got off the island?

[izabella]

3 hours ago, ahpny said:

However, I didn’t quite get what Mischa Jr.’s plan is supposed to be. Sure, “powerful friends” got him out of the Soviet funny house, but now what. His ability to leave the USSR doesn’t seem too plausible, notwithstanding the cash and passports. We know the Centre knows about Mischa Jr. since Gabriel told Philip about him, and the Centre seems likely to have played a role in getting him sprung (who else would be those “powerful friends”), but why would it be in the Centre’s interest to let him leave? The USSR generally didn’t allow non-dissidents to leave in the mid-1980’s. And Misha Jr. isn’t merely a dissident. He’s also a disloyal soldier with a potentially ruinous connection to 2 high level spies (and 2.1 if you count Paige). Perhaps he’ll be used by the Centre in some plot to “work” Philip – which is kind of a continuation of what Gabriel already started by informing Philip about Mischa Jr. in the first place.

I am very, very confused by all of this. 

First, I though Mischa Jr was dead.  I thought Philip was told that at some point, that he had died in Afghanistan.

Second, if Irina was arrested by KGB, she was NOT sending any fucking packets of anything to anybody. 

Third, whose passports were those?  Irina's?  Because if she hasn't seen her son since she left him with her father, how could his picture be on those passports?  Where and when would Irina have had current passports of her son made?

Fourth, Mischa wouldn't have any "friends in high places" to get him out of the mental hospital/prison if Irina was a prisoner herself. 

So, I have to conclude that 1) Irina is not actually a prisoner, never tried to defect and was working (testing?) Philip with all of that when she visited and all of this with Mischa and the passports is some KGB plot, or 2) Irina is a prisoner and all of this with Mischa is still some kind of KGB plot. 

I just have no idea what the plot could possibly lead to or why.

3 hours ago, Umbelina said:

The other thing that could happen is Misha being shot and killed trying to escape, or captured.  Oh hell, anything could happen with Misha, but whatever it is, I'm sure it will rock Philip to his core.

This brings me back to wondering if Philip thinks Mischa is already dead or not.  I could have sworn that, almost as soon as Philip found out he had a son, he was told that son was dead.

[ptuscadero]

13 hours ago, Umbelina said:

I don't think it's that much of a fall for Tatiana to be, even temporarily in charge of  one of the most important stations the KGB runs.

So far, I've posted a few reviews and interviews worth reading in the media thread, the reviewers are raving about this finale, and the entire season.  I agree.  This show almost never goes where I expect it to go, and I wish they hadn't included William infecting himself in the previews last week.  That would have been a much bigger moment if we didn't already know it was going to happen.  The chase would have been more tense too.

That's why I never watch previews. Unfortunately, someone spilled it online after the show last week, so I knew what was going to happen from the moment he appeared onscreen. I agree, it would have been much more effective if they had managed to keep it out of the previews. :-(

[tennisgurl]

So many feelings...

A pretty quiet kind of finale, but I do not think thats a bad thing. It was a season filled with lots of quiet tension, with brief moments of intensity and drama. I am sure that I will have lots of more thoughts on this later, but my main feelings are...sadness. It was just a really sad season, where we saw everyone reaching their breaking points, feeling isolated and exhausted by a war that will seemingly never end, and trying to deal with responsibility and loyalty. 

I really hope Oleg and Arkady are not gone for good. They are both great characters, and it would suck to loss them. Maybe we really will end up spending more time in the USSR next season? Also, holy crap Oleg is tall. He just towers over everyone in ever scene he is in. 

Poor William. What a sad, lonely life he has had, only to die a nasty death. He was a welcome addition to the cast this year, and Baker has done a great job. 

Very interested in little Mischa. Will he make it to America, or will Philip and Elizabeth find him in Russia, if they end up running? Because, with this show, I really have no idea what will happen, or where this show is going. At this point, half the cast is either in Russia, or heading there, with Philip and Elizabeth seriously considering heading back to the motherland. Will they re tool the show? Or split the show in half, showing the Cold War from both sides? I have really no idea, but I do trust the show runners know what they are doing. 

I am going to miss this show so much. I looked forward to this show every week, and now I have no idea what I am going to do every Wednesday. 

[hellmouse]

My hope for Mischa Jr is that he will be used as a way to show Philip reacting to the death of a child. It would be too heartbreaking to kill Paige or Henry, but we don't have a deep emotional investment in Mischa Jr., so his death, while sad, would not be as devastating. It would serve to truly heighten the danger that the children are in because of their parents. It would add yet another weight to Philip's shoulders, and it would be a source of tension and/or a catalyst for unity between Philip and Elizabeth. 

It's just hard for me to imagine him having a big storyline of his own. Let's say he makes his way to West Germany, then to Canada, then to the USA. That alone will be an impressive feat. Where in the USA does he land? If he's left Russia illegally, he can't exactly go to an embassy for help. Does he just hole up in a motel and turn to the "travel agents" yellow pages section of the phone book and start making calls? Does he speak English? What does he say?  Has Irina given him some code words to use? IDK, but I find that I dislike Irina more and more as we learn more about her, because what we learn seems far too convenient but logically inconsistent. YMMV of course. 

[gwhh]

2 hours ago, scartact said:

Not sure, but William has been in the States for 30ish years and hasn't been allowed to speak any Russian whatsoever, so he hasn't practiced his native tongue in so long that maybe he no longer has that immediate mental access to it anymore? I'm not sure since I don't know much about language acquisition especially in adults and especially if the speaker no longer practices his native tongue.

My grandfather grow up in home as a 1st generation Italian.  He read, wrote and spoke Italian and English from birth.  And as he become an adult fewer and fewer and people spoke Italian and than after many decades he could only read and understand Italian but not speak it!

 

Are we SURE Stan son is 18 years old??

 

In real life Paige is 18 years old and from Canada!  So she playing and America and her secret ID is Canadian     

Edited June 9, 2016 by gwhh

[sistermagpie]

7 minutes ago, izabella said:

This brings me back to wondering if Philip thinks Mischa is already dead or not.  I could have sworn that, almost as soon as Philip found out he had a son, he was told that son was dead.

No, he was always told he was alive. Last we heard he was back from Afghanistan and that he had a grandfather in Moscow, the guy who showed up here.

Irina had a picture of Mischa when she saw Philip in NYC--I remember thinking since I assumed she was an Illegal that this was a bit silly. She's walking around with a picture of a young man in a Red Army uniform. No idea if she was supposed to have just seen the kid or not.

4 minutes ago, hellmouse said:

IDK, but I find that I dislike Irina more and more as we learn more about her, because what we learn seems far too convenient but logically inconsistent. YMMV of course. 

ITA. I don't know what it would add to have him die, necessarily, since he's already an ex-soldier and was even locked up in a mental asylum. Philip's been worried about him dying for a while but never actually met him. The main interest I'd have in him is him actually showing up to connect to the whole person that is Philip, particularly the part before he was Philip. They've got a lot in common despite never having met. 

2 minutes ago, gwhh said:

Not sure, but William has been in the States for 30ish years and hasn't been allowed to speak any Russian whatsoever, so he hasn't practiced his native tongue in so long that maybe he no longer has that immediate mental access to it anymore? I'm not sure since I don't know much about language acquisition especially in adults and especially if the speaker no longer practices his native tongue.

People can definitely lose access to it. In William's case I don't know what his status would be (I get the impression that the show's rule is that Russians speak Russian no matter how long they've been speaking English) but in this scene he was talking to Americans about life in America so he may very well have simply not even felt any reason to switch to Russian. Had he been talking about home he might have.

[Athena]

Quote

First, I though Mischa Jr was dead.  I thought Philip was told that at some point, that he had died in Afghanistan.

Second, if Irina was arrested by KGB, she was NOT sending any fucking packets of anything to anybody. 

Third, whose passports were those?  Irina's?  Because if she hasn't seen her son since she left him with her father, how could his picture be on those passports?  Where and when would Irina have had current passports of her son made?

Fourth, Mischa wouldn't have any "friends in high places" to get him out of the mental hospital/prison if Irina was a prisoner herself.

Quoted from @izabella (my quote function doesn't work as well on this older laptop).

1. Mischa Jr was not declared dead. I think there was a scare that he was missing for awhile, but Philip heard from Gabriel in a recent episode that Mischa had returned home and would live with his grandfather.

2. Irina's father said that Irina had sent the packet to him before she ran away. I think Irina knew she had a high chance of not making it alive so she had a contingency for her son.

3. It's implied Irina made passports for her son. We do not know how much contact she had with her son, but enough to have contact with her father to the extent they could mail each other things so she could have had the photos from him or through some means through the KGB.

4. The friends in high place is implied to be the Center/KGB on behalf of Philip and Gabriel. Gabriel had said they were looking into helping Mischa Jr out in the longer term for the sake of Philip. It seems the Center/KGB only found out recently that Mischa was in he facility as the institution admin said. Gabriel probably does not even know, but they got him off so he could go home to his grandfather. 

[sistermagpie]

5 minutes ago, Athena said:

Irina's father said that Irina had sent the packet to him before she ran away.

I thought he said before she was arrested, which I guess could also mean before she ran away. How she sent it to him is unclear, of course. It doesn't seem like a contingency so much as a directive to go find his father if he wants. 

God, Irina is so annoying.

[izabella]

Thank you, Athena.  That helps a lot!!

So does your #4 mean that Gabriel lied about #1?  Meaning, he told Philip that Mischa was wtih his grandfather, but in reality he was in the mental hospital prison?  Or does that mean Gabriel didn't know and HE was told that Mischa was with grandpa?

[sistermagpie]

10 minutes ago, Athena said:

1. Mischa Jr was not declared dead. I think there was a scare that he was missing for awhile, but Philip heard from Gabriel in a recent episode that Mischa had returned home and would live with his grandfather.

 

He didn't actually say he would live with his grandfather. Philip just asked if he "had anyone" and he said he had a grandfather. So Philip was just asking if he had any family, not where he was living.

[Athena]

@izabella We're now in fanwank territory, but based on what the admin told Mischa. "You have friends in high places... I don't even think they even knew you were here." So the Center/Gabriel thinks he was discharged, but he got detained for being against the war/state. On checking, they realized he was in the mental institution and helped him out by influencing the facility to let him go on good behavior if he passed his mental check. Next scene we see him going to his grandfather which confirmed to the viewers who he was if you remembered the Gabriel/Philip conversation about Mischa having a grandfather.

[izabella]

Thank you, everyone!  I appreciate the clarifications.  I'm going to have to go back and watch the Irina episode, because I obviously missed a lot there that related to Mischa.  Maybe I just don't like that whole story line, so didn't pay that much attention to it.  I'm not sure how I feel about this being a set up for a major story line next season.

[SunnyBeBe]

I'm kind of glad to see the Mishca, Jr. storyline.  It might be a little too Brady Bunch like for him to just be welcomed in into the family. though. I suppose they could put a bed in the attic. lol  He seems to have had some hard times and might appreciate a hot meal and clean bathroom.  I would think it would be an opportunity for Philip to do something like be a real father to this young man who has grown up without him.  I just feel like Philip would want to do right by him and not wave him on. 

Edited June 9, 2016 by SunnyBeBe

[jjj]

32 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I would think it would be an opportunity for Philip to do something like be a real father to this young man who has grown up without him.  I just feel like Philip would want to do right by him  

  I don't think we can say Philip should be assigned any guilt about Mischa.2, as he did not even know about him until he was serving in the army.  And Philip is still not even sure if he exists, or is a manipulation device of Gabriel. 

[lcarolynl]

Regarding Stan's reenactment of the love scene he walked in on, it looked like he pantomined Matthew with his hands on Paige's boobs and as a parent, I would NOT appreciate that happening or making a joke of it by Matthew's father. Yikes! Way too fast for a religious 15 year old who just had her (presumably) first kiss. 

I found William's deathbed comments very interesting. He said that being so lonely left him feeling dry inside. Now here he is, being intimate with Stan and Adderholt in perhaps the most meaningful way since his arrival in the US, and he's turning to liquid inside. I thought the "dry inside" was an interesting choice of words.

William was so brave and noble in my eyes. He avoided the danger of revealing too much that a healthy capture might entail and he brought to light the dangerous biowarfare being developed on US soil and he sacrificed his life by a highly unpleasant death. Another wonderful character gone that I will miss, he really captivated me whenever he was on screen.

[shura]

2 hours ago, RedHawk said:

Yeah, and ole Stan nearly lit the match to Philip's smoldering rage.

Oh, when Stan was dancing gleefully with his "Philip, man, come here, Matthew is about to bang your daughter, how hilarious and awesome is that?", I was half-expecting Philip to go "yeah, ha, ha... may I borrow your barbecue fork?"  Stan is clueless.

The scene where Arkady is served his PNG papers seemed a little weird. First, wouldn't that be done by someone from the State Department? And we had the Deputy AG and Wolfe from the FBI instead. Second, while I see how Wolfe's berating of Arkady may be emotionally satisfying, to him and to viewers, it was pretty unprofessional. He is going on and on about how Arkady is despicable because he made his officer seduce an FBI secretary and killed Gaad. But he can't know for sure that the KGB is responsible for Gaad's death, and Arkady had, in fact, nothing to do with Clark seducing Martha (it happened before Arkady). So Wolfe is basically just venting about all the horrible things the KGB has done, but nothing he can specifically pin on Arkady. He might as well yell at any random Soviet. They really should have gone with someone from the State Department.

[sistermagpie]

11 minutes ago, jjj said:

  I don't think we can say Philip should be assigned any guilt about Mischa.2, as he did not even know about him until he was serving in the army.  And Philip is still not even sure if he exists, or is a manipulation device of Gabriel. 

Though being Philip it looks like he feels guilt about it anyway. 

9 minutes ago, lcarolynl said:

Regarding Stan's reenactment of the love scene he walked in on, it looked like he pantomined Matthew with his hands on Paige's boobs and as a parent, I would NOT appreciate that happening or making a joke of it by Matthew's father. Yikes! Way too fast for a religious 15 year old who just had her (presumably) first kiss. 

 

I think he was miming them straightening their clothes, etc. Not making out.

[FormerMod-a1]

30 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

I think he was miming them straightening their clothes, etc. Not making out.

That's how I took it too.  Straightening clothes, smoothing hair, etc. 

[Ina123]

Stan's had some success. Like Umbelina said, before she was caught he had Nina. He was the first onto Martha. Why suspect P n E? There are probably 10 couples with 2 children on his block.

Because Stan had a rapport with Oleg he was able to get his office and every other office jumping on the bio weapon news. With little to go on they found William. Despite William dying the sucess is that the weapon was not obtained by USSR.

Stan came home after a big "atta boy" and was little giddy probably from lack of sleep. I'll forgive him for being a little silly about Matthew n Paige.

[J-Man]

Quote

  7 hours ago, aquarian1 said:

I didn't see Stan as creepy either.  He just thought it was funny and cool that their kids were into each other, and thought they covered making out so well, when in fact they made it more obvious.  He shared it as a "look how funny our kids our, with the smoothing of the hair and patting clothes, but also isn't it cool that our kids are into each other?" kind of thing, imo.

I didn't see it as creepy. I saw it as extraordinarily stupid.This is a guy who is in a profession where reading people, and anticipating their reactions, is supposed to be a fundamental skill set. Yet he is completely, absolutely, totally, oblivious to the notion of the father of a 15 or 16 year old daughter  being very angry about his daughter making out, in a home without any parents present, with Stan's 17 or maybe 18 year old son. Stan's a stone cold moron, and this season went downhill as he was given more time. For the life of me, I don't understand why the writers thought having a really stupid character given a lot of time was a good choice for this show. He's not quite Col.Klink, but he's not far from it, and this isn't supposed to be a "Hogan's Heros" reboot.

OK, maybe this is really out there, but is it possible that William did actually "out" the Jenningses before he (presumably) died? After all, we never saw him die, and he was still muttering about the spy couple when we last saw him. So ... perhaps Stan now KNOWS about his neighbors and has formulated a plan in which he is going to "play" them, and perhaps try to turn them?  I was thinking that this might have caused his sudden awkward chumminess with Philip in that final scene.

[Ina123]

Izabella

You may be mistaking Oleg's brother who died in Afghanistan with Misha.

 

 

Am I the only one who doesn't need an explanation of Gaad's death. Arkady sent thugs to get info from him. Gaad immediately recognized why they were there and decided to do himself in rather than face that...just as William did.

When you can't get to the cyanide pill you run in front of a bus.

[RedheadZombie]

5 hours ago, Umbelina said:

Moving this comment to this post.

 Spies in movies are super heros that know everything, unless they are some misfit civilian accidentally roped into the spy world, then they are just so very clever and out fox everyone.   I think this show is much more realistic about the failings of spies, who are, in reality, just people, with faults, with luck, with bad luck.  Nothing is a sure thing in spying. 

Yes, Stan is trained.  Guess what?  So are Elizabeth and Philip.  They are also very very good at covering because they do it, day in and day out, and have for 20 years.  They have much more experience than Stan at undercover work.

Stan went undercover for a couple of years, in the USA, and just about lost it.  Mostly he's overt, not a covert agent.  He would probably spot tells in civilians, but in other very well trained spies?  Not so much.

I've liked many of Stan's scenes.  He stood up to Gaad.  He doggedly followed his hunch about Martha and exposed her.  As far as him not suspecting the Jennings?  Why would he?  He's rarely home anyway, he may as well suspect his next door neighbors as well, not just the family across the street.  Seeing KGB everywhere he looked would be the sign of an agent that needs to retire.  I agree that he got roped in when the KGB learned about Nina and turned her, but again, the man was still reeling from his skin head embed, and his wife and son now people he didn't even know, so he was in a particularly vulnerable place in his life.  Human.  His read on Nina wasn't even wrong, she was legit, until caught.

Actually, wasn't Stan almost immediately suspicious of the Jenningses?  I remember him snooping in their garage while Philip hid around the corner with his gun drawn.  My interpretation - Stan's instincts were on point, but when he found nothing in the garage, he thought he was being paranoid and blamed it on his long-time under cover work.  I think that embarrassment has helped him dismiss anything else suspicious that's cropped up over the years.

I would be interested in a Jennings family on the run story, but only if they're being pursued by Stan and Aderholt.  I really like the balance of those two elements.

5 hours ago, Umbelina said:

I seriously doubt Philip will be introducing him to anyone, except perhaps his wife.  Possibly his kids at the end of the show if he's still alive.

I'm not sure what I think of the Mischa story line.  I never truly believed he existed, and we still don't really know that Philip is that kid's father.  But they seemed to cast for similarity to Philip and Henry, so I'm willing to accept it's true.  I would be more interested in an adversarial relationship - at least initially.  Something like Mischa seeking asylum to the US by reporting his knowledge of his mother and his bio father being long-term under cover as an American.  Otherwise his addition seems so trite and awkward.  There's enough tension all around without worrying about the stranger who shows up with a thick Russian accent.  And I don't think his presence will cause much jealousy with Elizabeth.  She managed to always treat Martha fairly and seemed concerned about her welfare, even knowing she was definite competition for Philip's affection.  Whereas Mischa happened before she even met Philip, and I don't think she would ever ask or even approve of Philip denying another child of his.  So now I'm thinking end game is Philip and Elizabeth on the run, while big brother cares for Paige and Henry.  I can handle an ending that doesn't involved death or imprisonment for Philip and Elizabeth, because I really don't think the show will do that to their protagonists.  Just as long as Philip and Elizabeth swear off this way of life and admit they've been Americanized, and they're no longer believers in the cause - I'll be content.  Maybe a word or two of regret for the innocents they've killed would be nice.  All the innocents have bothered me, but probably none more than the guy Elizabeth dropped the car on.  He would have suffered a good long time before dying.

[ChromaKelly]

Not sure where to ask this, but in the promo for Ep 12, there's a shot of Elizabeth in her "Patty" disguise. But then she never does show back up as Patty. What's up with that?
 

[sistermagpie]

12 minutes ago, ChromaKelly said:

Not sure where to ask this, but in the promo for Ep 12, there's a shot of Elizabeth in her "Patty" disguise. But then she never does show back up as Patty. What's up with that?

Promos routinely include old clips that are not in the episode they're talking about.

[ChromaKelly]

Just now, sistermagpie said:

Promos routinely include old clips that are not in the episode they're talking about.

OK, I didn't realize that's what happened. I thought maybe she was going to see YoungHee one more time.

[jjj]

Yeah, I hated to see the end of the Young Hee story.  All that work, and for nothing, with William's death. 

[ToniG]

17 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

Also, I am officially sick of EST. Seriously, this ep I started to just agree with Elizabeth about it. I know Philip hates his job. I have no idea how he actually got into the job, because his entire life in the USSR seems based around that bland, irritating Irina. He doesn’t respond to any of Elizabeth’s openings about the motherland but he’ll pay money to say he hates being a travel agent for the advice of “Why don’t you quit?”

 

See, I took Philip's talk at EST to refer to his real job, the one he can't just quit, not the cover job.