S08.E09: December: Berkshires County

[Juneau Gal]

I've gotta say, having now watched this episode several times, when Dorinda goes into her "I decorated, I cooked, I made it nice!" tirade, my heart broke a little. Haven't we all been there at one time or another? Such happy anticipation for an event that.....turns to shit. 

I did too really, really like how all the women, except for B who had retreated elsewhere, immediately felt remorse for Dorinda and tried to jolly her up. That was real. That was a true human response.  Rare in these shows.

 But all is soon restored to order as we are then immediately presented with the scene of Sonja's trout snatch. 

[straightshooter]

1 hour ago, ScoobieDoobs said:

I have a theory why they're showing the first season.  To contrast the once funny, likeable & immensely watchable Bethenny to this non-stop screaming hate-spewing mostly humorless shrew we're stuck with now.  Ugh, she's just so relentlessly awful this season.  And her sense of humor has pretty much vanished.  

I give Lu credit that she is the only one who stands up to her.  But she (like everyone else on this now terrible show) still kisses up to her. We saw Lu give her that hella pricey bag -- which Betheny just rolled her eyes at.  

Look, maybe Bethenny doesn't have the direct power to hire or fire anyone, but everyone sure is terrified of her.  Who can blame 'em?  She is terrifying now.  She's Freddie Krueger.  Her reign of terror & wrath never ends.   Ugh, I can't stand this show now (cuz of Bethenny's non-stop hate fest) & took a break from it.

I watched the first season & remembered why I enjoyed this show.  It ain't the same now.  Watching Bethenny makes me anxious & tense.  No likey -- ar all!  Carole is a waste of cam time.  Have to admit, Moaner, Lu & Sonja do sometimes still give me a giggle.  But Bethenny's hate shtick is killing it for me.

Although I agree with you on several things in your post, my thinking was different as far as the reason for yesterday's marathon - if this was a strategic move - solely because I don't think TPTB would be doing anything to show Bethenny in an even more unflattering light.  My money is on the opposite - that they were attempting to refresh our memories and show us the rationale behind Bethenny's flip-out.  

I liked it/them so much better back then, when they seemed to be on the same level and there was no heirarchy yet.  Big egos make a mess of things, without fail.  Veteran status eventually causes swelling of the heads of even the more humble ones, as well.   

[Umbelina]

They weren't all on the same level though.  They treated Alex horribly, and Bethenny like the poor little red-headed step child.  I do think first seasons are always the best, especially of the original housewives shows.  I now only watch NY and BH (and the BH is probably over for me now, too many fake fights and staged nonsense, and mealy mouthed women.)  Sometimes I catch NJ when people say it's a good one. 

At least with NY though?  The fights and relationships feel real, and they don't hide behind others if they want to say something, they speak up, and for the most part, fight their own battles.

They also have a long and rich history.  For example, Luann's complete rise and fall, and the beginnings of rising again.  She started out as a know-it-all prissy, egomaniac "countess' who looked down her nose on others and gave unwanted advice from her throne.  Then she was dumped, her kids used racial slurs and got drunk on You Tube, she lived on the child support and the house in the Hamptons she got in the divorce, then?  The child support checks stopped, she seemed to be in very dire straights financially, for her at least.  She begged Bethenny to get her on the RH filming (for money no doubt) of the so-called "Kyle party."  She had to settle for pay for play with Bravo. 

I think the biggest problem the long term HW's have with her is that they had to cover for her for so long.  They all knew she was sleeping around, getting drunk frequently, and basically the polar-opposite of the character she was playing on the show.  They gritted their teeth and did it though, although I think it was Ramona who first hinting that the whole ladylike "act" was a fraud.  Maybe after Luann claimed Mario hit on her? 

Anyway, Karma's a bitch.

I really liked the free'd up Luann last season, but now it has kind of a desperate edge to it all, and as others have said, she really doesn't look good.  Did all the booze and cigarettes finally catch up to her, or is it just that unlike Sonja, she'd rather pay the heating and repair bills than get her facials and botox?

[NYCFree]

My son has started watching Bravo with me (he's 14 and has esoteric tastes). He looked at me and cracked up when Dorinda announced she was going to go watch Law and Order after the first fight.  That's my go to stress watching show as well.  It's so well written and acted that it can hold your attention, no matter how many times you've seen an episode.  Yet the episodes are so familiar, that you don't have to exert any mental effort to follow what's going on. I could tell that Dorinda totally uses it the same way.

[straightshooter]

38 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

They weren't all on the same level though.  They treated Alex horribly, and Bethenny like the poor little red-headed step child.  I do think first seasons are always the best, especially of the original housewives shows.  I now only watch NY and BH (and the BH is probably over for me now, too many fake fights and staged nonsense, and mealy mouthed women.)  Sometimes I catch NJ when people say it's a good one. 

 

I see what you're saying.  Maybe a better way of stating what I'm trying to say would be that they seemed to feel like they were peers (somewhat) who hoped to be friends.  They acknowledged that which they had in common and genuinely appeared to want to learn about one another.  They seemed to care about the well-being of one another and each had a fairly good sense of self then - that definitely changed.  There was no HBIC or fight for the title yet.

Edited June 5, 2016 by straightshooter

[ScoobieDoobs]

Lu has already been outed as pretty much of a sex addict.  So no surprises here, Bethenny.  I'm glad Bethenny's ugly digs on Lu didn't phase her.  Actually, I was pretty impressed by how strong a gal Lu is.  Carole dismissed Lu's strength as being clueless.  You know, go fuck off, Carole & just talk to us from Bethenny's asshole.  

Eh, this is all about Bethenny & these grudges she holds forever. These venomous outbursts of Bethenny's are making her look deranged.  Her saying she likes Lu was nuts.  You like Lu?  You wanna verbally rip her to shreds before our eyes & just NEVER stop, but you like her?  Ugh.  

I think Bethenny would luv to see Lu end up in a crying mess on the floor -- or carted off to a loony bin, after being the relentless target of her hideous hateful outburts.  Ah, but nope.  Ain't gonna happen, Bethenny.  Lu ain't Kelly.  Lu is way too strong.  I don't think I could be.  

Sheesh,  Bethenny's Freddie Krueger/German Shepard attack dog routine scares the absolute shit outta me -- just from my TV.

Edited June 5, 2016 by ScoobieDoobs

[film noire]

On 6/3/2016 at 11:55 AM, seasick said:

 

I don't know if we can emancipate the term 'slut' from slur-ville.  

Sure we can. There are lots of ways to undermine the word (mine is by using a handy dandy acronym I created --  "SLUT means Sexually Liberated & Unapologetically Transgressive. Sign me UP!" --people usually laugh but the point is made and it shuts the shaming down pretty quickly.)

~I should create a drink called The Slutty Girl and then watch Bethenny lose her bitter-hearted, foul-mouthed "I sound just like Regan from "The Exorcist" mind. 

Edited June 5, 2016 by film noire

[zoeysmom]

5 hours ago, motorcitymom65 said:

Tons and tons of comments have said that Carole was just as wrong as Lu because eventually she started fighting back against the huge flood of nasty stuff that Lu was throwing at her. Tons of comments on this thread alone have said this very thing in the last week. And while I don't think it's true that the vast majority of people think calling someone a slut is anywhere near as horrendous as calling someone a Pedophile, my point is that on a forum where behavior and comments among the ladies are discussed and analyzed, it is surprising that someone being called a slut is more outrageous than someone being called a Pedophile. If we are concerned with protecting a woman's sexual decisions and not wanting her to be judged because of the decisions she makes, why aren't folks furious that a grown adult woman making her own sexual decisions is being called a Pedophile? Are women's sexual lives only to be protected if we are talking about the amount of sex they are having? And who cares if it happened off camera? It was a major point of this episode, and the discussion on this forum is about what happened on this episode. I am surprised that a person who called someone a Pedophile would ever get one ounce of sympathy. Again, Beth was wrong and that is on her, but certainly after what Lu said she deserves to have every single minute of her private life thrown around for people to mock and judge as they so desire. 

It is the context in which Luann called Carole a pedophile, as Carole said it was in reference to Carole dating "a thirty year old man".  It wasn't as if Luann was saying that Carole molested 7 year old children it was specific (and incorrect uasage) to the age difference between Adam and Carole.  It would be the same as if Luann called Carole a homosexual for dating Adam, or if she had said Carole was practicing beastiality by being involved with Adam.  Adam is not a child nor is he the same sex as Carole nor is he a beast.  So in the context it was used it was factually incorrect as well as socially inappropriate.  When someone refers to a woman as a cougar or having a "boy toy" the man in question isn't really a boy, he is usually much younger then the woman and in his twenties. So the context is important, it was not as if Luann was telling mothers to lock up their third graders because Carole was on the loose.  For Carole to now put a different spin on it (which she didn't on the show) would be her being hypocritical.  Much as when Carole claimed she saw Sonja engaging in sex that is illegal in 37 states leading the viewers to believe Sonja was having anal intercourse with a stranger. To the point Andy asked a question in the anal format to Sonja.   To me it absolutely qualified Carole as a pervert, voyeur or threesome participant because you have to get pretty damn close to distinguish between anal and vaginal sex.  Of course Carole years later apologized for her mischaracterization of the event and admitted she had done it for laughs.  Sonja very graciously accepted her apology and moved on.  My reality was Carole was trying to make a pretty graphic joke.  It would not have been enough to have walked in on them, it became more interesting with the anal angle. 

Carole and Adam's relationship had a three prongs to it that Luann mentioned, first there was the 20+ year age difference, second was Nicole's previous relationship to Adam (something Carole had heard Nicole talk about) and third the fact Luann had extended her home during filming to get Adam a little camera time, exposure for his career as a favor to her niece and he was a good looking guy assuring screen time (something that looked good in Luann's new kitchen).  So really for Bethenny to just say Luann fucked a twenty five year old and then bagged on a friend for doing the same ignored the entirety of the situation.  Was Luann wrong for getting involved?  Yep, for as long as Adam and Carole are together she will forever be wrong about her reaction and words.   For Luann to have done the same thing would have included not only a younger man, someone known to Carole and her family and someone Carole was trying to promote. 

One can disagree with Luann for her behavior and words towards Carole and also feel Bethenny was wrong in her behavior towards Luann.  There isn't some limit on sympathy or outrage.  If someone runs a stop sign while texting  and maims someone, are they forever banned from any sympathy if they are hurt in an accident?  Is the driver of the second car given a pass because the person they hit had hurt someone else?  Of course not.  That is some sort of borrowed karmic revenge.  It is about taking responsibility as a human being and treating people decently.   

Are we now developing a new victim class-the slut shamer-so misunderstood?

Edited June 5, 2016 by zoeysmom

[WireWrap]

2 hours ago, straightshooter said:

Although I agree with you on several things in your post, my thinking was different as far as the reason for yesterday's marathon - if this was a strategic move - solely because I don't think TPTB would be doing anything to show Bethenny in an even more unflattering light.  My money is on the opposite - that they were attempting to refresh our memories and show us the rationale behind Bethenny's flip-out.  

I liked it/them so much better back then, when they seemed to be on the same level and there was no heirarchy yet.  Big egos make a mess of things, without fail.  Veteran status eventually causes swelling of the heads of even the more humble ones, as well.   

I agree, they are trying to get viewers to like her as they once did. For me, that isn't going to happen....at all. Not that she is wrong or nasty all the time but she is more often than not now. She has to control the others narratives at all times when she is present, they all walk on egg shells when she is around and they all fear that one of them will run back and squeal on them if they say anything against her when she isn't around.

[ScoobieDoobs]

Carole got exactly zero sympathy from me with her whining about Lu calling her a pedophile.  First off, stop fucking whining about harmless teasing, Carole.  You may think your shit doesn't stink & you're above everyone & that your being up Bethenny's asshole protects you from anyone saying anything about you, but guess what, hun?  It doesn't.  

Get.  The.  Fuck.  Over.  Yourself.  Carole.  Nobody thinks you're a pedophile for dating a 29 year old man.  Hun, STFU & stop whining about Lu teasing you.  God, I do hope her palsy walsy Satan Andy picks back up on the ghostwriter shit again.  

I'd so like to see Carole in the hot seat again.  C'mon Satan Andy, get your scriptwriters to sic Bethenny on Carole.  Now that I can get into -- watching Bethenny rip Carole to shreds.  But nah, all we got comin' is a probably blown ouuta proportion health scare -- for Bethenny only?  Well, of course.  Who else would it be?  Snore.

Edited June 5, 2016 by ScoobieDoobs

[Higgins]

27 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

It is the context in which Luann called Carole a pedophile, as Carole said it was in reference to Carole dating "a thirty year old man".  It wasn't as if Luann was saying that Carole molested 7 year old children it was specific (and incorrect uasage) to the age difference between Adam and Carole.  It would be the same as if Luann called Carole a homosexual for dating Adam, or if she had said Carole was practicing beastiality by being involved with Adam.  Adam is not a child nor is he the same sex as Carole nor is he a beast.  So in the context it was used it was factually incorrect as well as socially inappropriate.  When someone refers to a woman as a cougar or having a "boy toy" the man in question isn't really a boy, he is usually much younger then the woman and in his twenties. So the context is important, it was not as if Luann was telling mothers to lock up their third graders because Carole was on the loose.  For Carole to now put a different spin on it (which she didn't on the show) would be her being hypocritical.  Much as when Carole claimed she saw Sonja engaging in sex that is illegal in 37 states leading the viewers to believe Sonja was having anal intercourse with a stranger. To the point Andy asked a question in the anal format to Sonja.   To me it absolutely qualified Carole as a pervert, voyeur or threesome participant because you have to get pretty damn close to distinguish between anal and vaginal sex.  Of course Carole years later apologized for her mischaracterization of the event and admitted she had done it for laughs.  Sonja very graciously accepted her apology and moved on.  My reality was Carole was trying to make a pretty graphic joke.  It would not have been enough to have walked in on them, it became more interesting with the anal angle. 

Carole and Adam's relationship had a three prongs to it that Luann mentioned, first there was the 20+ year age difference, second was Nicole's previous relationship to Adam (something Carole had heard Nicole talk about) and third the fact Luann had extended her home during filming to get Adam a little camera time, exposure for his career as a favor to her niece and he was a good looking guy assuring screen time (something that looked good in Luann's new kitchen).  So really for Bethenny to just say Luann fucked a twenty five year old and then bagged on a friend for doing the same ignored the entirety of the situation.  Was Luann wrong for getting involved?  Yep, for as long as Adam and Carole are together she will forever be wrong about her reaction and words.   For Luann to have done the same thing would have included not only a younger man, someone known to Carole and her family and someone Carole was trying to promote. 

One can disagree with Luann for her behavior and words towards Carole and also feel Bethenny was wrong in her behavior towards Luann.  There isn't some limit on sympathy or outrage.  If someone runs a stop sign while texting  and maims someone, are they forever banned from any sympathy if they are hurt in an accident?  Is the driver of the second car given a pass because the person they hit had hurt someone else?  Of course not.  That is some sort of borrowed karmic revenge.  It is about taking responsibility as a human being and treating people decently.   

Are we now developing a new victim class-the slut shamer-so misunderstood?

Right, it was hyperbole. I think Carole is sophisticated enough to understand it, and even use it, being a writer and all. Now was it uncalled for? Sure was.

Yes another victim class...yawn...so exhausting.

Edited June 5, 2016 by Higgins

[NewDigs]

That whole pissed-off-about-being-called-a-pedophile is, imho, absurd. Did anyone actually believe that Carole's a pedophile? Doubtful. And Carole's whole injured act is ridiculous. 

And Bethy needs to shut her fucking mouth about anyone's sexual liaisons. Until she is willing to be as open about her love life as the other HWs she has no room to throw stones. Let's see her "partners" and let the audience, and other Wives, make some judgment calls.

She's disgusting. 

[ScoobieDoobs]

You know, I was actually kinda eager to see Bethenny get on Lu's case for her endless phoniness & hypocrisy.  But I didn't care for her slut-shaming Lu.  And despite Bethenny's direct denial of it in her TH, that is EXACTLY what she was doing.  It was vicious & ugly & nasty & exceptionally cruel.

Ah, but that is who Bethenny is now.  Hey, maybe some like Bethenny because of her now horrible nature.  Not me.  I can't stand it.  She's just so freakin' relentlessly cruel now.  I mean, why is she being so unnecessarily horrible & cruel?  For our entertainment?  Is this what Satan Andy thinks is entertaining?  Ugh.

Does Lu deserve to be outed for her indiscreet behavior?  Why is Bethenny doing this so gleefully?  She kinda admitted in her TH, this was revenge & that when people in the past have gone against her, it hasn't gone well for them -- or something like that.  

OK, so does this mean we should think she's awesome & wonderful for being tough & standing up for herself?  I'm not seeing her that way.  She just seems cold, heartless, vicious & cruel.  Worlds away from how she was in season 1, eh?

Hey, Idk if I'm the only one, but I'm endlessly fascinated by Dorinda's house.  Don't get me wrong, I have absolutely no use for her, but that joint reminds me of one those crazy places Steed & Mrs. Peel would always end up in, in The Avengers.

Edited June 5, 2016 by ScoobieDoobs

[izabella]

47 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

One can disagree with Luann for her behavior and words towards Carole and also feel Bethenny was wrong in her behavior towards Luann.  There isn't some limit on sympathy or outrage. 

Yes, this.  I have plenty of outrage to go around!!  I'm an equal opportunity hater, and will be back to hating on Lu as soon as I get some more of my Bethenny outrage under control!  I focus on Bethy's slut shaming because her relentless tirade at Lu was the overwhelming force in this episode. I still have PTSD just from watching it.

Also, If Carole wants me to be more outraged about Lu calling her a pedophile, she will have to refrain from giggling about it with Ramona when she told her she'd find it funny if Lu texted, "sorry you're a petit fille..."

[Mondrianyone]

I suspect there are actual wolves walking around in the woods wearing T-shirts that say, "REALLY, WE'RE NOT THE ONES WHO RAISED HER!"  Because if I were a wolf, I'd want to make sure no one thought she was mine.

Seriously, that was ugly, as Scoobie says, in the usual figurative sense, but it was also scary ugly in the literal sense--the expression she got on her face was horrific--eyes glittering, lips drawn back over her teeth in some kind of rictus predator grimace, veins standing out behind the stretched skin on her forehead.  If I were Bethenny (and I'm grateful not to be), I'd avoid letting that level of rage show just on an aesthetic basis.  Very ugly look for her.

With every new utterance from her, Carole is solidifying my suspicions about her as a writer.  The smart glasses and the laptop balanced on her knees aren't enough to convince me otherwise.  I think she's just Googling for sweatshirts with cute sayings on them.

Edited June 5, 2016 by Mondrianyone

[ScoobieDoobs]

Hmmmm, and just how is Carole's writing career goin' right about now?  Um, is she on that laptop shopping around for . . . er, ghostwriters?  Maybe it's time to give Veevs a call, Carole.  Maybe she can give you some useful advice, hun.

[zoeysmom]

I thought the oddest part of the whole two and a half hours (their time not ours obviously) was both Ramona and Bethenny claiming they fear having their men folk taken if Luann knows who they are dating.  Insecure much.   Bethenny last year made a big deal and demanded an apology from Ramona for man stealing in Turks and Caicos.  People don't like insecure people.

A little advice to Bethenny and Ramona, women (and men) their age need to stop pushing the bad childhood agenda.  Bethenny is getting close to 50 and Ramona is 60-the statute of limitations has run out on blaming your parents.  Complaining and whining about your divorces and having a contentious relationship with your ex is not sexy or desirable.  Men (or women) do not want to hear stories of woe about exes, and money fights. Next, when you are out with the herd follow Ramona's lead and separate your target from the pack.  Men (or women) do not want a blow by blow of your wacky group of friends and your cutesy observations and gossip about your friends or even strangers around you.  You are putting down your friends for the sake of a laugh.  Men or women do not need hear how incredibly successful you are as a businessperson.  Maybe they care more about the person and less about the bank account.  Specific to Bethenny no one worth their salt knows or cares how many famous people you knew before you struck it rich or since. 

Take a lead from Carole and Luann who are in relationships, leave your garbage at the door.     Carole might want to set her sights for someone who actually works but that is on her if she is comfortable putting him up. 

[ScoobieDoobs]

Hey, I totally luved Lu with curly hair in her TH.  It was the ONLY time I ever remember seeing Lu with curly hair.  Looked so good on her.  Could it be natural?

Bethenny, I really don't need to hear about every sexual experience Lu has had for the past 7 years.  I'm sure that could fill up a porn blog.  Except I'm not interested.  Is anyone interested in the deets of Lu's sex life?  Except maybe (oddly enough) Carole?

I've always thought it was strange how Carole so closely & really obsessively followed Lu's sex life.  Clearly, all these deets Bethenny is screeching about (on Lu's oh-so-active sex life) are coming from Carole.  

Sorry, Bethenny & Carole, but you 2 are heading into a very weird area -- being so obsessed with Lu's sex life, to want so desperately to publicly detail it to us & pass such harsh judgement on it.  They're both lookin' weird & pathetic for doing this slut-shaming shit to Lu.

[WireWrap]

15 minutes ago, ScoobieDoobs said:

Hey, I totally luved Lu with curly hair in her TH.  It was the ONLY time I ever remember seeing Lu with curly hair.  Looked so good on her.  Could it be natural?

Bethenny, I really don't need to hear about every sexual experience Lu has had for the past 7 years.  I'm sure that could fill up a porn blog.  Except I'm not interested.  Is anyone interested in the deets of Lu's sex life?  Except maybe (oddly enough) Carole?

I've always thought it was strange how Carole so closely & really obsessively followed Lu's sex life.  Clearly, all these deets Bethenny is screeching about (on Lu's oh-so-active sex life) are coming from Carole.  

Sorry, Bethenny & Carole, but you 2 are heading into a very weird area -- being so obsessed with Lu's sex life, to want so desperately to publicly detail it to us & pass such harsh judgement on it.  They're both lookin' weird & pathetic for doing this slut-shaming shit to Lu.

Actually, I think Ramona is the one filling Bethenny in on Luann's bedroom behavior/hookups, not Carole. Ramona was a bit obsessed with who Luann was sleeping with before Luann/the Count divorced and hasn't stopped snooping/keeping tabs since then. LOL

[zoeysmom]

31 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

Actually, I think Ramona is the one filling Bethenny in on Luann's bedroom behavior/hookups, not Carole. Ramona was a bit obsessed with who Luann was sleeping with before Luann/the Count divorced and hasn't stopped snooping/keeping tabs since then. LOL

Carole sure was concerned and reporting from St. Barth's about both Sonja and Luann.    This year it was about no one ever sticking around for breakfast and Tom is just banging her. .   Why do they care and why is it any of their business?  That is the only question that should be answered. You can't say -oh because they lie.  If you don't ask the question then there would not be a lie.  Asking the question makes the asker a busy body snoop (and perfect reality show material).   Since when are trade secrets off limits but questions about someone's sex lives aren't? Nobody ever liked Mrs. Kravitz. And who wants to be like Ramona?

Folks, let face it, far more disgusting to sit around and talk about other people's sex lives than to live it.

Edited June 6, 2016 by zoeysmom

[izabella]

53 minutes ago, ScoobieDoobs said:

Hmmmm, and just how is Carole's writing career goin' right about now?  Um, is she on that laptop shopping around for . . . er, ghostwriters?  Maybe it's time to give Veevs a call, Carole.  Maybe she can give you some useful advice, hun.

I've wondered about this.  I don't think Carole is a creative or clever writer.  I think she started out as a journalist, and journalists report on events or things other people are doing or experiencing; they don't use their imagination to craft a fictional story.  They have a topic they're writing about and explaining.  Maybe Carole is not cut out for fiction, and while she had a topic she understood deeply as a widow, right now all her life experience is about is Adam and dog poop.  No one wants to read a book about that.  That's why this vegan cookbook is so appealing to her; she doesn't have to create a compelling story.

ETA:  Actually, I take that back.  Women who are getting back into the dating pool after being widowed or divorced might very much be interested in an authentic look at how Carole is dealing with aging and falling in love with a young man.  It might be very compelling to talk about how that makes a woman feel and what she struggles with and how that has changed her perspectives on herself and her life, and how it might be making her think about her life differently.  I don't know.  I think it could be compelling if it's as honest and genuine as her thoughts were in her Widow book.  But if she's trying to put a Carrie Bradshaw spin on that experience for a novel...or tv...it falls flat because she takes the heart out of it, the truth.

Edited June 6, 2016 by izabella

[izabella]

18 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

Actually, I think Ramona is the one filling Bethenny in on Luann's bedroom behavior/hookups, not Carole. Ramona was a bit obsessed with who Luann was sleeping with before Luann/the Count divorced and hasn't stopped snooping/keeping tabs since then. LOL

Was she worried she might have been hooking up with Mario?

[straightshooter]

I was a little embarassed for Lu at that couples dinner when she and Dorinda were talking smack about Ramona - although what they were saying was true. Neither that nor her little Countess cackle were becoming. (We've heard that cackle before - most recently, right after she made the "yeah, because you don't have any!" comment to Carole about her having no children during an Adam fight)   

That conversation and one of her TH's, during which she enthusiastically differentiates Tom's feelings for her versus his feelings for Ramona, made me wonder if she felt a little threatened in the beginning.  I'm expecting that we'll see some sort of victory dance soon.

Edited June 6, 2016 by straightshooter

[zoeysmom]

5 minutes ago, izabella said:

Was she worried she might have been hooking up with Mario?

She couldn't count that high.  Deflection.  I will say for the most part everyone knew and only Jill came right out and said it but Ramona and her delusional self know best.  I often thought the Ramona admitting it was going to coincide with Avery going to college and well it did.

[zoeysmom]

8 minutes ago, straightshooter said:

I was a little embarassed for Lu at that couples dinner when she and Dorinda were talking smack about Ramona - although what they were saying was true. Neither that nor her little Countess cackle were becoming.  That conversation and one of her TH's when she enthusiastically differentiates Tom's feelings for her versus his feelings for Ramona made me wonder if she felt a little threatened in the beginning.  I'm expecting that we'll see some sort of victory dance soon.

Ramona had been terribly offensive to John, Sonja, Dorinda and Luann, I think it is amazing they didn't call her a she beast.  Did you find it all weird that Ramona claims it was a no-chemistry relationship, had not been out with him in two months and all of a sudden they (or Luann) needed her permission?  They have already had the tear down comments.  As we learned last year during Luann's carping of Adam, be careful what you say as you never know when one of these relationships might stick and you look like a sore loser or loser in general for sounding off about another's relationship.   I think some of this is almost by design. 

[straightshooter]

10 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

Ramona had been terribly offensive to John, Sonja, Dorinda and Luann, I think it is amazing they didn't call her a she beast.  Did you find it all weird that Ramona claims it was a no-chemistry relationship, had not been out with him in two months and all of a sudden they (or Luann) needed her permission?  They have already had the tear down comments.  As we learned last year during Luann's carping of Adam, be careful what you say as you never know when one of these relationships might stick and you look like a sore loser or loser in general for sounding off about another's relationship.   I think some of this is almost by design. 

I don't disagree for a second that Ramona had been offensive, and yes, they could've called her worse - as I said in my post, what they said was true. I don't really know enough info to form an opinion on whether or not Lu broke Girl Code - there's just so much that we don't know.  

I think a lot of what we see is by design, of course - editing screws with us regularly, far more than I think we might imagine!

Edited June 6, 2016 by straightshooter

[ScoobieDoobs]

33 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

Actually, I think Ramona is the one filling Bethenny in on Luann's bedroom behavior/hookups, not Carole. Ramona was a bit obsessed with who Luann was sleeping with before Luann/the Count divorced and hasn't stopped snooping/keeping tabs since then. LOL

I see your point, Wire.  Forgive me, but I'm still trying to erase Moaner's squirting comment from my brain.  Oh man, I think I'll need bleach to do that.  

So is Moaner obsessed with Lu's active sex life in the same way (and to the same loony degree) as Carole seems to be?  Not to me.  Could Moaner be filling Bethenny in on Lu's active sex life?  It's possible, but my hunch is, no, that's not what's going on.  Why?  Because I'm taking into account how palsy walsy Bethenny is with Carole now -- especially with Carole now living in her asshole.  Bethenny ain't never gonna be that way with Moaner, no matter how much Moaner kisses up to her or dumps all over Sonja.  No, that stuff Bethenny is screeching & screaming about Lu in the previews came from Carole -- of that I have no doubt.

So Carole, you big phony baloney, is Heather still your "best friend"?  Hmmmm . . . 

[NewDigs]

See below.

Edited June 6, 2016 by NewDigs
Still figuring out formatting here.

[NewDigs]

8 minutes ago, straightshooter said:

I don't disagree for a second that Ramona had been offensive, and yes, they could've called her worse - as I said in my post, what they said was true. I don't really know enough info to form an opinion on whether or not Lu broke Girl Code - there's just so much that we don't know.  

I think a lot of what we see is by design, of course - editing screws with us regularly, far more than I think we might imagine!

Fuck the "girl code".

Do unto others...

[WireWrap]

24 minutes ago, ScoobieDoobs said:

I see your point, Wire.  Forgive me, but I'm still trying to erase Moaner's squirting comment from my brain.  Oh man, I think I'll need bleach to do that.  

So is Moaner obsessed with Lu's active sex life in the same way (and to the same loony degree) as Carole seems to be?  Not to me.  Could Moaner be filling Bethenny in on Lu's active sex life?  It's possible, but my hunch is, no, that's not what's going on.  Why?  Because I'm taking into account how palsy walsy Bethenny is with Carole now -- especially with Carole now living in her asshole.  Bethenny ain't never gonna be that way with Moaner, no matter how much Moaner kisses up to her or dumps all over Sonja.  No, that stuff Bethenny is screeching & screaming about Lu in the previews came from Carole -- of that I have no doubt.

So Carole, you big phony baloney, is Heather still your "best friend"?  Hmmmm . . . 

I think Ramona got a lot of info from Sonja during the past few years, even before Bethenny got her spin off shows. Bethenny wasn't talking about Luann/hookups during the last couple of seasons but a longer time frame IMO. Is Carole adding to that list, I believe she is, but I still think Bethenny's main source of info comes from Ramona. Ramona seems to be fighting for her own space up Bethenny's butt along side Carole at this point.  

[ElDosEquis]

1 hour ago, ScoobieDoobs said:

Hey, I totally luved Lu with curly hair in her TH.  It was the ONLY time I ever remember seeing Lu with curly hair.  Looked so good on her.  Could it be natural?

Bethenny, I really don't need to hear about every sexual experience Lu has had for the past 7 years.  I'm sure that could fill up a porn blog.  Except I'm not interested.  Is anyone interested in the deets of Lu's sex life?  Except maybe (oddly enough) Carole?

I've always thought it was strange how Carole so closely & really obsessively followed Lu's sex life.  Clearly, all these deets Bethenny is screeching about (on Lu's oh-so-active sex life) are coming from Carole.  

Sorry, Bethenny & Carole, but you 2 are heading into a very weird area -- being so obsessed with Lu's sex life, to want so desperately to publicly detail it to us & pass such harsh judgement on it.  They're both lookin' weird & pathetic for doing this slut-shaming shit to Lu.

The reason that carole and Methenny care so much about Lu's SL is really simple. Lu's men are men of means, no slouches. They can pay for a vacation or piece of jewelry - they don't mind being connected with a HW.

Then you have the Toxic Twins....Carole goes for the certain type - seasonal workers - who crash at her pad because the rent is too damn high and Meth's dates probably sign a non discloser agreement OR are too embarrassed to admit they dated her.

[straightshooter]

26 minutes ago, NewDigs said:

Fuck the "girl code".

Do unto others...

I couldn't agree more.  That would be ideal, but the question posed was regarding whether or not LuAnn needed to ask permission to date someone Ramona had dated.  

"Do unto others..." is definitely not something we see lived out on these shows.  It's every man for himself, for the most part.  

[NewDigs]

9 minutes ago, straightshooter said:

I couldn't agree more.  That would be ideal, but the question posed was regarding whether or not LuAnn needed to ask permission to date someone Ramona had dated

"Do unto others..." is definitely not something we see lived out on these shows.  It's every man for himself, for the most part.  

Bolding mine.

How old are these women?

Not to mention there seems to be a limited carousel of available men to go around.

If I considered going out with someone's ex I would consider how I would feel in the same situation. 

[straightshooter]

7 minutes ago, NewDigs said:

Bolding mine.

How old are these women?

Not to mention there seems to be a limited carousel of available men to go around.

If I considered going out with someone's ex I would consider how I would feel in the same situation. 

As would I.  I wouldn't date a man a friend had dated even if she WAS ok with it and encouraged me to.  I agree with every sentence you wrote, in fact.

What I am questioning is what LuAnn did or did not know when she began dating Tom.  Perhaps I didn't pay enough attention to that part of the show?!   I said in an earlier post that I've been dying to watch it again, but my DVR isn't cooperating.

Edited June 6, 2016 by straightshooter

[zoeysmom]

Just now, straightshooter said:

As would I.  I wouldn't date a man a friend had dated even if she WAS ok with it and encouraged me to.  I agree with every sentence you wrote, in fact.

What I am questioning is what LuAnn did or did not know when she began dating Tom.  

Remember Ramona and Bethenny intentionally do not tell Luann who they are dating, which, gee shucks wouldn't that violate the girl code?   So regardless if Luann knew, Ramona had no standing because she admits she does not tell Luann who she is dating.  I am kidding around, but Ramona and Bethenny can't have it both ways-and Page Six is not a substitute for telling.  Regardless who any of these women date there is one absolute, Sonja will have already dated him, or been a friend with benefits. :-)

[zoeysmom]

21 minutes ago, NewDigs said:

Bolding mine.

How old are these women?

Not to mention there seems to be a limited carousel of available men to go around.

If I considered going out with someone's ex I would consider how I would feel in the same situation. 

They act seventeen.  I don't know why they are insisting on a dating resume from each other and what makes me laugh is quoting Sonja, Sonja who partied with John John and had P-Diddy on her yacht and Madonna at her fashion show. 

I think Ramona's experience with Tom was a deep as a follow up round in Speed Dating.  Ramona wrote she went out with him six times, said she went out with seven times and then a couple of times.  Tom said they went to dinner.  I am thinking Ramona may want to check her calendar to firm up her assertions.  Also I believe Luann was actually introduced to him first. 

[Umbelina]

I don't think Luann is screwing only "men of means" I mean come on now, that pirate with a hotel show gig?  I think she wants to marry a man of a certain amount of means though, since she's not really bringing in income of her own, aside from her pay to play real housewife gig.  I think she has sex for fun, and more power to that!  I think she always has, and that's why the original cast had issues with her white glove, pinky finger raised, look down her nose, "Oh Darrrrrlings, that's just not done!" pretensions.   I love a woman with a healthy sexual appetite, and see nothing at all wrong with that, and while there is no need to share details, at least drop the ladylike dating rules crap.

She's been a piece of work for a long time, but I did really like her last year.  I hope we continue to get the fun Luann, but she has such an air of desperation about her this year.  Maybe now that she's engaged she'll relax and calm down some.

Edited June 6, 2016 by Umbelina

[Grey Goose]

4 hours ago, WireWrap said:

I agree, they are trying to get viewers to like her as they once did. For me, that isn't going to happen....at all. Not that she is wrong or nasty all the time but she is more often than not now. She has to control the others narratives at all times when she is present, they all walk on egg shells when she is around and they all fear that one of them will run back and squeal on them if they say anything against her when she isn't around.

I think falsely calling someone a child abuser of a sexual nature is so hideous.  20 years hence my thought is that the word pedophile will still be inexorably (?) linked to Carole. That bell can't be unrung.  It's the worst thing you can accuse someone of.  So the accusation, no matter how unfounded, will linger.  Who's going to go back and dig up the fact that the "victim" was 30 years old? 

[This2getsold]

On 6/1/2016 at 7:29 PM, jnymph said:

Gah!!! WTF were those things?!?? 

I think they are a knock off of those Chinese warriors that are on tour in museums. Only shorter and green. Made in Mexico. 

[ScoobieDoobs]

13 hours ago, Grey Goose said:

I think falsely calling someone a child abuser of a sexual nature is so hideous.  20 years hence my thought is that the word pedophile will still be inexorably (?) linked to Carole. That bell can't be unrung.  It's the worst thing you can accuse someone of.  So the accusation, no matter how unfounded, will linger.  Who's going to go back and dig up the fact that the "victim" was 30 years old? 

It's an idiotic accusation, particularly because it's being hurled against an older lady for being with a 30 year old -- & it is very easy to shake off.  There's nothing to it.  Carole is being thin-skinned & she thinks she's above anyone daring to speak about her or judge her.  Seems especially strange to me -- when she does the same exact fucking thing to everyone around her.  She calls Lu a hypocrite & a phony, & yet Carole is both of those.

Now, don't ask me to defend Lu for calling her a pedophile in the first place.  It's lowball & distasteful -- particularly for someone who brags about having class.  Yeah, right.  I agree that no matter how you cut it, it's a very nasty/ugly accusation, no matter how baseless.  But Lu is quite a nasty woman.  We've seen her nastiness come out in spurts.  I don't mind watching Lu point her nastiness toward Moaner or Carole or even Bethenny.  But she should give Carole an outright apology for calling her a pedophile.  She should not have gone there.  It was meant as a joke & a put-down, but it flopped.  Interesting that she never apologized for saying it.  Not surprising, but interesting.

Edited June 6, 2016 by ScoobieDoobs

[WireWrap]

14 minutes ago, Grey Goose said:

I think falsely calling someone a child abuser of a sexual nature is so hideous.  20 years hence my thought is that the word pedophile will still be inexorably (?) linked to Carole. That bell can't be unrung.  It's the worst thing you can accuse someone of.  So the accusation, no matter how unfounded, will linger.  Who's going to go back and dig up the fact that the "victim" was 30 years old? 

I agree but only to a certain extent. Really only those present when it was said and we the viewers know about this and I think most of us know that Luann was being an idiot, an ugly, nasty idiot but an idiot none the less. Luann owes Carole a sincere apology, a public apology at that, and she has to accept the fact that Carole may never forgive her for that comment. Carole needs to either accept it/move on or reject it and move on, either way Carole needs to move on or else she is giving the pedophile comment life herself. As for Bethenny, she needs to stay out of it.

[zoeysmom]

32 minutes ago, Grey Goose said:

I think falsely calling someone a child abuser of a sexual nature is so hideous.  20 years hence my thought is that the word pedophile will still be inexorably (?) linked to Carole. That bell can't be unrung.  It's the worst thing you can accuse someone of.  So the accusation, no matter how unfounded, will linger.  Who's going to go back and dig up the fact that the "victim" was 30 years old? 

Why would Carole or anyone bring it up on camera if it was so devastating?  Luann didn't bring it up on camera or want to continue to have the conversation.  Let's see who brought it up . . . oh Ramona did.   I don't think anyone thinks Carole is a pedophile if their IQ exceeds room temperature.   Carole knows the context of it. 

[zoeysmom]

49 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

I agree but only to a certain extent. Really only those present when it was said and we the viewers know about this and I think most of us know that Luann was being an idiot, an ugly, nasty idiot but an idiot none the less. Luann owes Carole a sincere apology, a public apology at that, and she has to accept the fact that Carole may never forgive her for that comment. Carole needs to either accept it/move on or reject it and move on, either way Carole needs to move on or else she is giving the pedophile comment life herself. As for Bethenny, she needs to stay out of it.

I agree Luann owes Carole a heartfelt apology.  Carole won't accept it and Carole will be part of the group that breaks up the band until TPTB realize Carol and Bethenny with a side order of Dorinda and Ramona can only carry the show so far.  What make Bethenny and Carol a little hard to swallow is they demand this honesty and owning it (I despise that term) and when the person claims they want to be included or still be friends they put the person and their feelings down and claim they are phony.    

I still don't know what the righteous want, if Luann were to say I am a hypocrite and a slut, a whore, a plastic fuck doll, a snake a weasel, would Bethenny, Carole and Ramona turn around and all of sudden say, "oh okay, now that you  have owned it we can be friends!"  It is like Vicki Gunvalson being compared to Miss Piggy and her only comeback is, "my mom thinks I am pretty."  I don't care for Vicki but that made the iciest heart melt.  It is more on the thrower of the comments than the person getting blasted. 

So in order to make the trip some have to humble themselves to Bethenny and Carole.  I see a repeat of the Scary Island season. Some won't be going.  If Dorinda is smart ( and she isn't) she will stay in New York with her friends Luann and Sonja.  Either Jules or Dorinda will be the human sacrifice in Mexico.

Edited June 6, 2016 by zoeysmom

[straightshooter]

2 hours ago, zoeysmom said:

Remember Ramona and Bethenny intentionally do not tell Luann who they are dating, which, gee shucks wouldn't that violate the girl code?   So regardless if Luann knew, Ramona had no standing because she admits she does not tell Luann who she is dating.  I am kidding around, but Ramona and Bethenny can't have it both ways-and Page Six is not a substitute for telling.  Regardless who any of these women date there is one absolute, Sonja will have already dated him, or been a friend with benefits. :-)

No telling whether or not I'll get to watch it again, so I'll just ask - DID LuAnn know that Ramona had dated him before going out with him?  What did she know, at least according to what we've been shown? 

That last sentence cracked me up - so far your theory is pretty accurate!

Edited June 6, 2016 by straightshooter

[zoeysmom]

26 minutes ago, straightshooter said:

No telling whether or not I'll get to watch it again, so I'll just ask - DID LuAnn know that Ramona had dated him before going out with him?  What did she know, at least according to what we've been shown? 

That last sentence cracked me up - so far your theory is pretty accurate!

Luann said she did not.

Edited June 6, 2016 by zoeysmom

[motorcitymom65]

6 hours ago, straightshooter said:

No telling whether or not I'll get to watch it again, so I'll just ask - DID LuAnn know that Ramona had dated him before going out with him?  What did she know, at least according to what we've been shown? 

That last sentence cracked me up - so far your theory is pretty accurate!

Lu said she didn't know, but it sounds like the other gals believe that Lu did know and that this was one of the reasons she eventually hooked up with him.  Dorinda has said she introduced them, but Lu said the timing wasn't right for a while and it took them several months before they actually made contact.  Carole said that she knew Ramona was going out with him because she had seen them out together, so it is hardly a surprise to imagine that Lu would have known about it as well.  

I could be wrong about this, but I get the impression that the others felt at the time that Lu was hooking up with this guy for a storyline. Might be true, might not be, but with her history I can see others thinking this might be the case. It sounds like he might be a bit of a famewhore. Didn't someone else mention that they spotted this guy in an earlier season hitting on Ramona at a bar? He has dated Sonja, Lu and Ramona. 

[straightshooter]

One of my favorite authors, Jennifer Weiner, has a Vlog in which The Bachelor is always discussed. I had never seen one of them because I despise that show, but I finally watched one of her Vlogs and found a little gem at the very beginning of it - her sister's drink of choice is hilarious and they're obviously poking fun at the concept of Bethenny's beverages for the weight-conscious woman.  Take a look!  (It's at the very beginning)

The Skinny Mudslide

Edited June 6, 2016 by straightshooter

[motorcitymom65]

8 hours ago, Grey Goose said:

I think falsely calling someone a child abuser of a sexual nature is so hideous.  20 years hence my thought is that the word pedophile will still be inexorably (?) linked to Carole. That bell can't be unrung.  It's the worst thing you can accuse someone of.  So the accusation, no matter how unfounded, will linger.  Who's going to go back and dig up the fact that the "victim" was 30 years old? 

Yes, to this. And it isn't like Lu just made mention of his age one time, when she made the Pedophile comment. Part of her Twitter rant last season was that it was somehow sexually deviant of Carole to be going out with someone so young. She called him a "boy", and a "child". She said the same thing at the season finale party last year when she was talking to Carole about it. Carole said he was a man and she was offended at Lu's assertion that he was a child. 

[motorcitymom65]

25 minutes ago, straightshooter said:

One of my favorite authors, Jennifer Weiner, has a Vlog in which The Bachelor is always discussed. I had never seen one of them because I despise that show, but I finally watched one of her Vlogs and found a little gem at the very beginning of it - her sister's drink of choice is hilarious and they're obviously poking fun at the concept of Bethenny's beverages for the weight-conscious woman.  Take a look!  (It's at the very beginning)

The Skinny Mudslide

Very funny.  I love her as well. "Good in Bed" is such a great read, and "In her Shoes" not only one of my favorite books, but movies as well.  If it's on, I'm watching it.  

[Grey Goose]

The whole name-calling thing with Luann has made me think she's just base. She is not a woman of substance, nor particularly smart.  

I don't care for Carole at all so this is not some defense of Carole.

~~~

I watched the one season of Real Housewives of DC and Luann's stunt reminds me of the WH photographer's wife and what he feel she did to his family's name.

old article.

 http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/29/fashion/29housewives.html?_r=0&module=ArrowsNav&contentCollection=Fashion %26 Style&action=keypress&region=FixedLeft&pgtype=article