S03.E23: Alexander Kirk: Conclusion

[yourmomiseasy]

On 5/21/2016 at 8:18 PM, morgankobi said:

If Tom knew the whole time, what was the deal with him shooting Solomon like he did?

Just because Liz didn't actually die doesn't mean Solomon didn't try to kidnap her and put her and her unborn baby in danger doing so.  Why wouldn't Tom still be pissed off?

[slf]

I think when it comes to Kaplan's reasons for helping Lizzie it's as simple as Red was jerking her around and putting her in danger. Spader's awesome but that doesn't change who Red is and what he's done; he's lied to Lizzie by omission from the very beginning, helped put her in incredibly dangerous situations without giving her all the information, manipulated her, etc. He acts like she doesn't deserve to know about her own past and family when these very things are putting her in danger. Frankly, it's no surprise to me that Kaplan would agree with Lizzie that Red's as much a danger to her as anyone else. He is.

I was surprised to hear Red say that of everyone on Earth Kaplan is the very last person he'd expect to betray him. I would've thought that would be Dembe.

[misstwpherecool]

One of the things that puzzle me is that not only Red and Dembe know about the FBI's complicity so does a henchman/sniper guy. I think Red's bearded security knows Red works with the FBI but does he know the details.

What's the first rule of premeditated murder-no witnesses. So that means one kills or leverages a witness. That henchman in particular could not only spread the word but get in a jam himself and have Ressler or even Harold do a favor that will dig them in deeper. Besides stupid this is sloppy. You could trust Red or Dembe but the contractors Red hires not so sure. Maybe bearded security guy.

Edited May 22, 2016 by misstwpherecool

[Happytobehere]

Please show, bring Lizzie back because she's so awesome, complex, interesting and worthy of our love and obsession  -- said ABSOLUTELY NO ONE!  

I will likely watch the spinoff since I like Tom and FJ. Wonder what will be done about spybaby Agnes.

[fivestone]

Blonde Liz who was on the run was actually OK. I didn't mind her so much. If she could hone in on that aspect of her personality, I'd be OK watching her next season. Otherwise, I might be done with the show. She's such a drag!

[thuganomics85]

Ha!  Of course Lizzie is still alive!  And it was all part of plan between her, Tom, her ex doctor, and Miss Kaplan like her "death" episode so easily telegraphed.  Oh, Blacklist.  You really make it so easy.  And I still suspect you really think you are some kind of elite network drama, and aren't just the dumb, if fun at times, action show that you are.

Also not surprising is despite all this being because of what a danger Red was to them, they still end up getting captured anyway and it wasn't because of Red, but because Tom and Kaplan were apparently sloppy as hell.  It sounded like all Kirk had to do was tail him to the airport and it was all over.  Maybe you should watch out for tails, Tom?  That was surprisingly dumb of him. Now Lizzie is captured, which I'm not looking forward to, because I'm guessing that means a bunch of scenes where Lizzie is tied to a chair, etc., and it will require Megan Boone to do a bunch of heavy-lifting acting, which I'm not sure she's capable of.

Only way I can see Tom going to a spin-off know is that Kirk plans to execute him, only for him to be saved by Mother Famke Janssen, and forced to work with her organization has payment.  Added bonus if he's actually saved my a suddenly healthy Solomon, all "I'm back!!"

If she comes back, and all of the FBI are automatically forgiving towards her, I'm calling fowl.  She made them all think she was dead and make them feel like they lost a friend.  That deception is pretty hard to overcome, but with this show, I can see it happening.  Maybe Ressler might be a bit moody, but then everyone else will chew him out for it.

James Spader was great as always, but that's about it.

[Margherita Erdman]

On May 20, 2016 at 7:02 PM, ottoDbusdriver said:

Lizzie is so fucking special that Red is co-opting a Presidential candidate in order to get a posthumous pardon.  Seriously ?

Does anyone else remember the elaborate plan/heist/scheme arc that was unspooling under Red's direction with the lawyer played by Fisher Stevens, in order to "clear Liz's name for good"? Did that plotline just get dropped without notice or mention, or did I miss something?

On May 21, 2016 at 6:35 PM, AimingforYoko said:

I wonder how soon after Megan's delivery this was, it looked really soon.

Yes, I thought she looked glowing and serene and beautifully styled in her white sundress, but then in the scene with Ulrich Thomsen when she was captive and tied to a chair, I thought: whoever did wardrobe and makeup that day is just as pissed about her return to the show as we are — newly delivered moms, God bless (and I've been one), are lumpy and bumpy and mushy, and the last thing you want to be seen in by anyone, much less on national TV, is clingy knits. And you definitely need a structured brassiere — poor MB looked like her boobs were headed in different directions.

Speaking of Ulrich Thomsen — as a fan of the batshit crazy and ultraviolent Banshee, I thought he'd be perfect as the sine qua non of Blacklisters, the bad daddy from whom Reddington was trying to protect Liz all this time — and yet somehow the show managed to drain all the reptilian menace right out of him. Is it the hairstyle? Or perhaps it is the bad acting juju of Megan Boone that no one but Spader can withstand for long?

[Drusilla]

7 hours ago, Margherita Erdman said:

Speaking of Ulrich Thomsen — as a fan of the batshit crazy and ultraviolent Banshee, I thought he'd be perfect as the sine qua non of Blacklisters, the bad daddy from whom Reddington was trying to protect Liz all this time — and yet somehow the show managed to drain all the reptilian menace right out of him. Is it the hairstyle? Or perhaps it is the bad acting juju of Megan Boone that no one but Spader can withstand for long?

*This*

[ItCouldBeWorse]

13 hours ago, Margherita Erdman said:

Yes, I thought she looked glowing and serene and beautifully styled in her white sundress, but then in the scene with Ulrich Thomsen when she was captive and tied to a chair, I thought: whoever did wardrobe and makeup that day is just as pissed about her return to the show as we are — newly delivered moms, God bless (and I've been one), are lumpy and bumpy and mushy, and the last thing you want to be seen in by anyone, much less on national TV, is clingy knits.

It's possible that either of the scenes were filmed in advance of her maternity leave.  In fact, all of them should have been; why should she have to leave her newborn just to film a couple of scenes for the season finale?  That would have been bad planning.

[kirkola]

Okay I'm very confused after this one.  Didn't Liz shoot her father?  I mean wasn't that the entire point of the repressed memories crap and the fire and what not?

And I would have sworn that in the pilot, someone mentioned her dad being a career criminal, but that he'd burned up in a fire.  But since that was never discussed again, I may have misheard that. 

How many father's does Liz get?

[Drusilla]

29 minutes ago, kirkola said:

Okay I'm very confused after this one.  Didn't Liz shoot her father?  I mean wasn't that the entire point of the repressed memories crap and the fire and what not?

And I would have sworn that in the pilot, someone mentioned her dad being a career criminal, but that he'd burned up in a fire.  But since that was never discussed again, I may have misheard that. 

How many father's does Liz get?

The latest count is 3 (including the adoptive Sam)

 

2 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

It's possible that either of the scenes were filmed in advance of her maternity leave.  In fact, all of them should have been; why should she have to leave her newborn just to film a couple of scenes for the season finale?  That would have been bad planning.

It seems they could've have actually refilmed the last episode. In which case, poor Moon Face had to schlep back on set.

[Drusilla]

I don't where this originally came from but it seems pretty accurate; it's doing the rounds heavy on social media and tumblr

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

The Blacklist Finale Aims To Please!

Does anyone die? More importantly, does anyone come back to life?

[comsimplex]

Yes to all of the above.  My theory is that Liz and Agnes are descendants of Princess Anastasia of the Romanovs.  Or of Mary Magdalene.  Or none of the above. 

[RHJunkie]

I missed several episodes and just recently caught up but I knew from the moment I saw Kaplan's interactions with Red and her comments about protecting Liz that she was going to fake Liz's death. It didn't seem likely that they would kill off Liz's character before addressing why Red came back for her, in an effort to protect her. While I don't agree with Red putting Liz in danger without giving her all the information to understand why people were after her, I also don't understand why she shows more anger toward Red when she forgave, got knocked up and was going to re-marry Tom after everything Tom did.

[buttersister]

Oh, Spader, the things I sit through to watch you.

[Drusilla]

18 hours ago, RHJunkie said:

I missed several episodes and just recently caught up but I knew from the moment I saw Kaplan's interactions with Red and her comments about protecting Liz that she was going to fake Liz's death. It didn't seem likely that they would kill off Liz's character before addressing why Red came back for her, in an effort to protect her. While I don't agree with Red putting Liz in danger without giving her all the information to understand why people were after her, I also don't understand why she shows more anger toward Red when she forgave, got knocked up and was going to re-marry Tom after everything Tom did.

You must know! Red is old and bald. Tom is handsome and has killer abs.

[RHJunkie]

5 hours ago, Drusilla said:

You must know! Red is old and bald. Tom is handsome and has killer abs.

It certainly seems that way but for storyline purpose I can't accept Liz or Tom's feelings toward Red. Why does Tom get to be so offended by Red's place in Liz's life or being around his daughter when he showed up on the scene betraying Liz before Red showed up and his life could have earned him enemies that would also not make it safe for his daughter. Liz and Tom's morality radars are broken. You don't get to be indignant about Red's lifestyle when you were either similarly involved in crime or willingly playing house with the person that is.

[Drusilla]

5 hours ago, RHJunkie said:

It certainly seems that way but for storyline purpose I can't accept Liz or Tom's feelings toward Red. Why does Tom get to be so offended by Red's place in Liz's life or being around his daughter when he showed up on the scene betraying Liz before Red showed up and his life could have earned him enemies that would also not make it safe for his daughter. Liz and Tom's morality radars are broken. You don't get to be indignant about Red's lifestyle when you were either similarly involved in crime or willingly playing house with the person that is.

If this was a good crime drama these questions would have been addressed before now and a new set of issues from them would have arisen. But this is not a good crime drama. We're coming up for S4 and we still know nothing about Moon Face and Red or Red and Jacob/Tom/Christopher/Christophe/Jingleheimer and quite a few people think that either the writers don't know themselves or the writers think this is the golden goose and if we know the answers, they won't have anything else to string us along with. What they should know is mostly, people don't give a flying you know what any more...

[RHJunkie]

1 hour ago, Drusilla said:

If this was a good crime drama these questions would have been addressed before now and a new set of issues from them would have arisen. But this is not a good crime drama. We're coming up for S4 and we still know nothing about Moon Face and Red or Red and Jacob/Tom/Christopher/Christophe/Jingleheimer and quite a few people think that either the writers don't know themselves or the writers think this is the golden goose and if we know the answers, they won't have anything else to string us along with. What they should know is mostly, people don't give a flying you know what any more...

I agree. They've dragged this on far too long. You would think that for as many seasons that they've had, they would have at least answered one of the major questions that they've posed from the onset. There are so many big elements with little indication that they will be addressed anytime soon...it puts me in the camp of believing that the writers don't know what to do with this show beyond answering those mysterious. I watch the show for James Spader's quirky brilliance. No show will find longevity if it's completely planted at the feet of a great actor who is being given little content to work with.

[Danielg342]

I have to think at this stage, the show must have been a victim of executive meddling, because I am not convinced the writers are truly committed to any storyline. They seem to just want a mindless action thriller, because I don't think they have been consistent with any long term storyline (that isn't an arc, although arcs have been sketchy too) and they change things "on the fly" too much. I can't think this is all by choice.

[Drusilla]

12 hours ago, RHJunkie said:

I agree. They've dragged this on far too long. You would think that for as many seasons that they've had, they would have at least answered one of the major questions that they've posed from the onset. There are so many big elements with little indication that they will be addressed anytime soon...it puts me in the camp of believing that the writers don't know what to do with this show beyond answering those mysterious. I watch the show for James Spader's quirky brilliance. No show will find longevity if it's completely planted at the feet of a great actor who is being given little content to work with.

Red is in danger of becoming a cliche; Spader does the same thing episode after episode. Someone of his caliber must be getting tired of it by now...

[paigow]

On 22/05/2016 at 5:26 PM, fivestone said:

I might be done with the show.

Even if you ARE done with the show, you will keep watching...

[slf]

On 5/25/2016 at 7:26 AM, RHJunkie said:

It certainly seems that way but for storyline purpose I can't accept Liz or Tom's feelings toward Red. Why does Tom get to be so offended by Red's place in Liz's life or being around his daughter when he showed up on the scene betraying Liz before Red showed up and his life could have earned him enemies that would also not make it safe for his daughter. Liz and Tom's morality radars are broken. You don't get to be indignant about Red's lifestyle when you were either similarly involved in crime or willingly playing house with the person that is.

Agreed about how absurd it is that Tom is offended by Red's place in Liz's life (tho he only showed up on the scene at Red's command). But I do think there's a substantial difference between a guy like Tom and a guy like Red. Red was one of the FBI's most wanted, he ran with the worst criminals in the world. He worked with and was friends with arms dealers, drug runners, murderers, assassins, serial killers, etc. Tom was pretty low level at the end of the day. Don't get me wrong, I would have shot him dead back in season one if I were Lizzie and I think it's absurd the show is portraying him as a good man and husband. But he's not the same as Red at all, they're on entirely different levels. Tom is a danger to Lizzie and Agnes (god, what a horrible name) but Red is even worse.

[RHJunkie]

2 hours ago, slf said:

Agreed about how absurd it is that Tom is offended by Red's place in Liz's life (tho he only showed up on the scene at Red's command). But I do think there's a substantial difference between a guy like Tom and a guy like Red. Red was one of the FBI's most wanted, he ran with the worst criminals in the world. He worked with and was friends with arms dealers, drug runners, murderers, assassins, serial killers, etc. Tom was pretty low level at the end of the day. Don't get me wrong, I would have shot him dead back in season one if I were Lizzie and I think it's absurd the show is portraying him as a good man and husband. But he's not the same as Red at all, they're on entirely different levels. Tom is a danger to Lizzie and Agnes (god, what a horrible name) but Red is even worse.

I agree that Red poses a greater, danger BUT danger is danger regardless, especially when you bring a child into the mix. I take issue with the fact that Liz and Tom conveniently ignore the danger their relationship poses to one another but want to collectively chastise Red for being a criminal and being selfish with his presence in Liz's life when the reality is that all 3 of them are behaving out of selfishness. Literally, any other character could chastise Red for this and it would make sense because at least they wouldn't be accusing Red of what they're also guilty of.

Edited May 26, 2016 by RHJunkie

[ItCouldBeWorse]

22 hours ago, RHJunkie said:

I agree that Red poses a greater, danger BUT danger is danger regardless, especially when you bring a child into the mix. I take issue with the fact that Liz and Tom conveniently ignore the danger their relationship poses to one another but want to collectively chastise Red for being a criminal and being selfish with his presence in Liz's life when the reality is that all 3 of them are behaving out of selfishness. Literally, any other character could chastise Red for this and it would make sense because at least they wouldn't be accusing Red of what they're also guilty of.

But didn't Mr. Kaplan speak the truth?  If Red had just left Liz alone after placing her with her adoptive father, she might have lived a completely ordinary life.  Sure, she would never have met Tom, but, quite possibly, no one would have ever equated her with Masha Rostova.  Because of Red's selfish need to be in Liz's life, a lot of really bad things have transpired.

Edited May 27, 2016 by ItCouldBeWorse

[RHJunkie]

52 minutes ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

But didn't Mr. Kaplan speak the truth?  If Red had just left Liz alone after placing her with her adoptive father, she might have lived a completely ordinary life.  Sure, she would never have met Tom, but, quite possibly, no one would have ever equated her with Masha Rostova.  Because of Red's selfish need to be in Liz's life, a lot of really bad things have transpired.

I never denied Red's selfishness or the danger he poses to Liz's life. Red being the greater threat doesn't somehow make Tom's past and affiliations insignificant to potential danger. Mr. Kaplan did speak the truth and it made sense for her to do so because she's involved for no selfish reason of her own. Tom is selfish for keeping in Liz's life. Liz is selfish for wanting Tom in her life despite all that he's done to her and knowing that he has a dangerous past and still inviting him to raise their child together. Red is the grand master of selfish in all of this. But again, my point being that the people who are guilty of being selfish are the ones that are pointing the fingers at others with the accusations.

[slf]

On 5/26/2016 at 11:05 AM, RHJunkie said:

I agree that Red poses a greater, danger BUT danger is danger regardless, especially when you bring a child into the mix. I take issue with the fact that Liz and Tom conveniently ignore the danger their relationship poses to one another but want to collectively chastise Red for being a criminal and being selfish with his presence in Liz's life when the reality is that all 3 of them are behaving out of selfishness. Literally, any other character could chastise Red for this and it would make sense because at least they wouldn't be accusing Red of what they're also guilty of.

I don't agree that Liz has ignored the danger of Tom's past. She waffled on whether or not to even tell Tom she was pregnant and they seem to be trying to leave their old lives behind. 

And if they are being hypocritical...okay. It's not the worst thing happening with them right now. They don't want Red in their lives, Lizzie did not want any of this, and had Red been upfront with her from the beginning it's entirely possible she would have made very different choices. But he wanted her to make very specific choices, and to feel only certain ways about those choices (like not giving her all the info on Tom when he first told her Tom wasn't trustworthy because he didn't want Lizzie to hate him; he let that go on a lot longer than it should have), and he dug her deeper and deeper with his stupid Blacklist. I think degree does matter here. It was selfish of Lizzie to keep the baby but the horse is out of the barn. She needs to make the best choices she can now. Faking her death, leaving the country, Tom leaving his old life, cutting Red out, to them was the best thing they could figure to do with the information they had. (But that's the problem isn't it? All the information they didn't have.)

[RHJunkie]

4 hours ago, slf said:

I don't agree that Liz has ignored the danger of Tom's past. She waffled on whether or not to even tell Tom she was pregnant and they seem to be trying to leave their old lives behind. 

And if they are being hypocritical...okay. It's not the worst thing happening with them right now. They don't want Red in their lives, Lizzie did not want any of this, and had Red been upfront with her from the beginning it's entirely possible she would have made very different choices. But he wanted her to make very specific choices, and to feel only certain ways about those choices (like not giving her all the info on Tom when he first told her Tom wasn't trustworthy because he didn't want Lizzie to hate him; he let that go on a lot longer than it should have), and he dug her deeper and deeper with his stupid Blacklist. I think degree does matter here. It was selfish of Lizzie to keep the baby but the horse is out of the barn. She needs to make the best choices she can now. Faking her death, leaving the country, Tom leaving his old life, cutting Red out, to them was the best thing they could figure to do with the information they had. (But that's the problem isn't it? All the information they didn't have.)

Ignored wasn't the right term...I should say that she was able and willing to look past it. It's certainly not the worst thing happening but my feelings are just a reflection of the impatience growing with how the writing is being done on the show. We're still waiting to have any real insight into the many mysteries that was were established at the very beginning of this show yet I constantly am hearing certain characters complain about one person's selfishness. It's just become far too repetitive for me given the way they've written Liz and Tom's characters in particular. Liz has put far too much trust in Red, relying on him to be the one to eventually tell her what the connection is between them and his motives but she hasn't really done much to find answers outside of Red...or maybe she has and my memory fails to remember any examples. 

Edited May 28, 2016 by RHJunkie

[buttersister]

Liz wanted it both ways, every way, her way. Didn't work out the way she expected? Quelle surprise!

[Grace284]

I didn't realise the previous episode wasn't the finale, that's the level of my disinterest in Liz and whatever she was up to. And yet, my disinterest could not compare with Liz's apparent disinterest in whether her husband and baby had just been brutally murdered. Most bad actors would at least have the good grace to overact that moment rather than look like they're trying to decide between chicken or beef for dinner.

Edited June 2, 2016 by Grace284

[kaygeeret]

I stopped watching somewhere in season2 and check in here to see what's up.

Still with the dame...don't remember her name...can't act ....

the writing is god awful

character development  is nil

And, perhaps most important of all, absolutely no one on the production side cares about this show. There is not an arc for the characters or the entirety of the plot.

I contrast this all the time with Person of Interest...a less successful show - as it is cancelled this year...but a beautifully acted, written, produced and cohesive show....from season one to the end!

They had a coherent idea and story line from start to finish and Blacklist is just thrown together - - it really is as if absolutely no one on this show (except of course my fab guy James Spade (how he tolerates this mess is beyond me. Of course food on the table is a lovely thing).....

Ahem, why in god's name do we want a spin off - oh yeah Tom's show - I might watch as Iike the actor, but if the same group is in charge........well...we all know what will happen.

what a waste of a lot of talent on screen wasted due to failure on the back end. 

 I am of course on the replace Liz train after epi 1 of season 1, so there is that.