Season 12 Spoilers, Speculation and Anticipation

[Bookish Jen]

I'm still trying to process this.

[CrazyDog]

Oh, damn. I was a recent convert to CM (well, a couple of years ago), and have been watching past seasons and on, and Hotch and Reid were definitely my favs. It will not feel like the same show at all.

[Bookish Jen]

Gee, less than  week ago some of us were getting on Matthew's case for his "I'm five years old"/Peter Pan schtick for twirling flags around his man nips. Now he's looking like a wise old sage (no, not that sage!) compared to TG kicking Virgil and Virgil's immature and passive aggressive, yet, "I'm such a bad ass" tweets and blocking people on his Twitter feed like a petulant child. I had heard rumors of TG's anger issues for a while, but I was hoping they were just that, rumors. Though I do appreciate him trying to be the better person and apologize for his violent and inappropriate behavior, I'm afraid his mea culpa has come too late. Perhaps, this will give TG some time for some self-reflection, and I hope, a chance for him to get things back on track. I do like TG as an actor, but unprofessional behavior must be addressed, and if that means firing TG from CM, so be it.

However, Virgil seems to be a major league instigator, smug and self-important. He just seems like an antagonizing type who likes to get in people faces just to show them who is boss. He comes across as hugely self-absorbed but not very self-aware.

Edited August 13, 2016 by Bookish Jen

[ReidFan]

:-(

[Droogie]

I absolutely loved the flag-twirling bit.  Love, love, love.

Is it wrong that I had the fleeting thought I wish Matthew would kick Virgil and get fired, so he could be free of this albatross and go on to bigger and better (or weirder and more obscure) things?  It's probably wrong.  But I thought it.

[ReidFan]

Matthew would probably get sent to AngerManagement Droogs cause it would be his first offence :P

[smoker]

I think TG deserved to be punished for his behavior, actually, they could have let him out more episodes, but the dismissal is too much for this situation. Moreover, I think this measure was because Virgil W wanted TG's blood and he wasn't discreet about it.

I know it sounds biased, but my argument is a lot of actors have a bad behavior and the industry lets it slide because they bring money/audience. It's wrong but they do it all the time, and it seems they did it with TG more than once. So now, it seems unfair only Gibson had been punished if VW acted wrong too. It's just a matter of hypocrisy and publicity and not about good enviroment or respet between coworkers. 

Just my opinion

[zannej]

I'm guessing whatever investigation they did determined that Virgil was the victim in the situation. If they were to take any punitive action against him now it could get them a major lawsuit. They probably had to agree to no retaliation for him not making a big stink about hostile work environment.

I don't know if they can let TG come back to wrap up episodes bc he might be banned from set (although nothing in the reports indicates that). It really is a sad situation.

I can't say that I blame CBS/ABC for firing him. They caught flak for letting actors get away with stuff in the past and I think they are making an example of him.

I think the show was already faltering and this just put the nail in the coffin. and not because TG is leaving necessarily, but for the reason he's gone. It puts a strain on the cast/crew and gives the fans negative feelings.

[JMO]

31 minutes ago, ReidFan said:

Matthew would probably get sent to AngerManagement Droogs cause it would be his first offence :P

I think he'd just get put into time out.

[smoker]

I can't believe it, I am talking about it and I can't believe Hotch is gone

of course it's only a tv show, but inside my leisure activities this is a major drama

[ReidFan]

1 minute ago, JMO said:

I think he'd just get put into time out.

did I mention that time out is now held in my house?

[smoker]

8 minutes ago, zannej said:

I'm guessing whatever investigation they did determined that Virgil was the victim in the situation. If they were to take any punitive action against him now it could get them a major lawsuit. They probably had to agree to no retaliation for him not making a big stink about hostile work environment.

I don't know if they can let TG come back to wrap up episodes bc he might be banned from set (although nothing in the reports indicates that). It really is a sad situation.

I can't say that I blame CBS/ABC for firing him. They caught flak for letting actors get away with stuff in the past and I think they are making an example of him.

I think the show was already faltering and this just put the nail in the coffin. and not because TG is leaving necessarily, but for the reason he's gone. It puts a strain on the cast/crew and gives the fans negative feelings.

Agree and I think that's where VW behaviour was low, I hope one day karma slaps him in the face >(

is just me or they aren't posting anything of this on their facebook site?

[ForeverAlone]

So far, there has been nothing from Criminal Minds' official social media. We have only heard the statements released to legitimate entertainment media. I can't imagine Erica is eager to address this publicly right now, but they'll have to say something soon enough. 

[Lebanna]

4 minutes ago, smoker said:

I can't believe it, I am talking about it and I can't believe Hotch is gone

of course it's only a tv show, but inside my leisure activities this is a major drama

I've always said that Reid is the only current fictional TV character whose death would actually affect me in real life. Like, if they killed him, I'd actually mourn a little bit. But there have been other fictional characters in the past both in series and books whose absence or death really made me extremely, surprisingly sad.

I think the truth is that these things can affect you on a deeper emotional level than you expect, because you spend as much time with fictional characters and know them better sometimes over the years as you do your real life colleagues or neighbours. You watch their lives develop, you worry for them, you hope for the best for them. Even when you're not watching or reading about them, they're in your mind. It's not a relationship, it's more like being a god, or a very benign stalker or something, but you spend hours of you life watching over them.

So, what I'm saying is, it's fine if anyone's really, genuinely upset that Hotch is gone now. It's normal that you might feel a bit down about it for a while. If you do, be kind to yourself.

[mythoughtis]

They really have no choice but to fire him.  Close your eyes, replay the situation - but replace Thomas Gibson, actor, with Bob Smith - fast food worker.  In these days of workplace violence, domestic violence at work, school shootings, etc..... they had no choice.  What if his next offense was a lot more than kicking?

[normasm]

23 minutes ago, mythoughtis said:

They really have no choice but to fire him.  Close your eyes, replay the situation - but replace Thomas Gibson, actor, with Bob Smith - fast food worker.  In these days of workplace violence, domestic violence at work, school shootings, etc..... they had no choice.  What if his next offense was a lot more than kicking?

If Bob Smith, fast food worker, had been menaced by Sally Jones, Lunch Lady, and had felt threatened and just kicked out and caught her in the shins, does that automatically mean Bob is an assailant? No. We don't know the whole frikkin' story, folks! Yes, Bob should have kept control of his feet, but maybe Sally shouldn't have been all up in his face. All we know for sure is the ass-saving decision ABC/CBS made. We also don't know if they have a special place for "Sally" to be "promoted" to because no one can trust or work with her anymore. 

Obviously Thomas should not have struck out in anger or frustration. He should have immediately apologized. But it could be that he did. It could be that Virgil was bent on powering out that "over-paid" actor, trying to get attention for his own "talents." It could be that, as Virgil gets what he wants right now, he also runs himself right out of the best job he's ever had, and may ever have. And all those other folks who are out of a job because he couldn't accept an apology? Can't believe they'll remember him in their nightly prayers, either. 

[Princess Lucky]

43 minutes ago, mythoughtis said:

They really have no choice but to fire him.  Close your eyes, replay the situation - but replace Thomas Gibson, actor, with Bob Smith - fast food worker.  In these days of workplace violence, domestic violence at work, school shootings, etc..... they had no choice.  What if his next offense was a lot more than kicking?

Actually, close your eyes and replay the situation like so:

What if this producer had kicked TG?

What if TG had kicked MGG?

What if TG had kicked Erica Messer?

What if Erica Messer had kicked TG?

I imagine your reactions would differ, depending on the people involved. I imagine you'd be calling for people to get fired.

(and before you say "TG would never kick MGG", let me say that a few days ago I would have said "TG would never lay a hand on anyone, period")

The fact, however, remains. One person was physically violent toward a colleague, and not for the first time. To me, this seems like a straw that broke the camel's back situation, especially knowing that TG was sent to anger management for his previous offense (which would have also gotten him fired, in another industry). And he may have "only" gotten physical twice but a person doesn't just escalate to physical violence if they don't have a temper. Who knows what TG was really like on that set? And in interviews/online, he has been putting on a show, basically. As have the CBS people, and the exec producers etc, who have been covering for him for so many years. That doesn't sit right with me. The way I see it, TG deserved to get fired.

Again, I love Hotch, but TG is not Hotch. Clearly.

[Droogie]

5 minutes ago, Princess Lucky said:

Who knows what TG was really like on that set? And in interviews/online, he has been putting on a show, basically. As have the CBS people, and the exec producers etc, who have been covering for him for so many years. That doesn't sit right with me. The way I see it, TG deserved to get fired.

This is speculation and has no basis in fact.  What is known is that he is well-liked by his fellow cast members and Larry Teng tweeted in support of him.  There are no excuses for violence and perhaps Thomas is a hot head (lots of people are) but Williams is famously nasty and vindictive.  And we simply do not know exactly what transpired.

i believe in the inherent rightness and the wrongness of actions.  But I also know life carries with it many shades of gray.  And in this instance, I am inclined to think 1) that Virgil Williams is hardly an innocent in all this and 2) that Thomas Gibson has been made an example and punished far beyond what the events in question called for.

[WendyCR72]

If this was Gibson's first rodeo in terms of physical violence, I'd say this reaction is an overreaction. However, it isn't. So he got more chances with even having the first instance be all "bygones" with anger management. If it was Joe or Jane Doe, their ass would have been toast then. With potential charges.

I get Hotch is a favorite, but no one should be allowed to get away with bad behavior because of his status. Gibson brought this upon himself. Even if he was goaded by a douche coworker, he is a big boy. Walk the hell away. Cool down. Kicking is 3rd grade territory. And Gibson's now paying for it.

[smoker]

23 minutes ago, Princess Lucky said:

Actually, close your eyes and replay the situation like so:

What if this producer had kicked TG?

What if TG had kicked MGG?

What if TG had kicked Erica Messer?

What if Erica Messer had kicked TG?

I imagine your reactions would differ, depending on the people involved. I imagine you'd be calling for people to get fired.

(and before you say "TG would never kick MGG", let me say that a few days ago I would have said "TG would never lay a hand on anyone, period")

The fact, however, remains. One person was physically violent toward a colleague, and not for the first time. To me, this seems like a straw that broke the camel's back situation, especially knowing that TG was sent to anger management for his previous offense (which would have also gotten him fired, in another industry). And he may have "only" gotten physical twice but a person doesn't just escalate to physical violence if they don't have a temper. Who knows what TG was really like on that set? And in interviews/online, he has been putting on a show, basically. As have the CBS people, and the exec producers etc, who have been covering for him for so many years. That doesn't sit right with me. The way I see it, TG deserved to get fired.

Again, I love Hotch, but TG is not Hotch. Clearly.

But there is not Hotch without Thomas Gibson

I understand what you are saying, but I stand for my argument, this wasn't for violence itself, it was to save their own asses (quoting @normasm)

And as medieval as it sounds, if VW wanted TG's blood I want VW's blood, and I want it to happen in a very Tarantino's way

Edited August 12, 2016 by smoker

[Princess Lucky]

38 minutes ago, Droogie said:

49 minutes ago, Princess Lucky said:

 Who knows what TG was really like on that set? And in interviews/online, he has been putting on a show, basically. As have the CBS people, and the exec producers etc, who have been covering for him for so many years. That doesn't sit right with me. The way I see it, TG deserved to get fired.
 

This is speculation and has no basis in fact.  What is known is that he is well-liked by his fellow cast members and Larry Teng tweeted in support of him.  There are no excuses for violence and perhaps Thomas is a hot head (lots of people are) but Williams is famously nasty and vindictive.  And we simply do not know exactly what transpired.

i believe in the inherent rightness and the wrongness of actions.  But I also know life carries with it many shades of gray.  And in this instance, I am inclined to think 1) that Virgil Williams is hardly an innocent in all this and 2) that Thomas Gibson has been made an example and punished far beyond what the events in question called for.

But this is the second instance of violence from TG. He "shoved" another person years ago, and that was swept under the rug (obviously, since we're just now finding out about it). Who was that other person/unnamed assistand director? Were they also vindictive and nasty? Or were they made to keep quiet while the show's main star went to "anger management", as opposed to Virgil Williams who spoke up? Which was his right? Because someone kicked him? Which is completely unacceptable behavior?

Also, speaking of speculation, and since TMZ "leaks" (all from TG-affiliated "sources") have been posted, there's also this from Variety:
http://variety.com/2016/tv/news/thomas-gibson-criminal-minds-fired-violent-incident-1201836440/

Quote

Gibson is also known to have had an violent outburst involving a “Criminal Minds” assistant director in 2010, which resulted in the studio sending him to anger-management classes.

As word of his suspension from the show spread earlier this week, numerous industry sources have noted that Gibson was known to be a volatile presence on the “Criminal Minds” set. The actor was said to have frequently been verbally abusive to fellow cast and crew members. One source with knowledge of the 2010 incident — which allegedly involved Gibson shoving the assistant director — said many staff members were dismayed that he was not let go at that time.

Which seems to confirm my speculation. Someone doesn't just shove and kick people and then be an absolute sweetheart the rest of the time. Physical violence is an escalation of otherwise volatile behavior.

And I don't know VG. His tweets suggests he's immature, and possibly an asshole. But TG's actions (plural) show he's violent. Any way you look at it, TG brought this on himself.

Edited August 12, 2016 by Princess Lucky

[Willowy]

As more information has come to light, I am leaning towards what you say, Princess Lucky. I still love Hotch dearly, and will always hold the character in the highest regard. Not sure about my feeling towards Thomas right now... feeling very conflicted. 

[Droogie]

Personally I've said multiple times that kicking people/resorting to violence is just not ok.  I didn't quibble even a little about the suspension, but I think firing is over the top.  And the 2010 incident wasn't swept under the rug; I knew about it.  I'm guessing it was pretty common knowledge for people who follow the show closely.  

I have also never intimated that Thomas Gibson is without his problems or faults.  If he is to be believed, 2010 was about the time he and his wife separated.  Then we all know about the dreadful catfishing incident, the DUI and then his manager suing him.  It was a terrible time for him and in many photos, he looks positively awful. You never heard about any erratic behavior on his part on the set of "Chicago Hope" or "D&G."  So I think it's possible he was going through a tumultuous time personally and was not able to separate himself enough to maintain his composure on set.  I am not excusing violence.  As for the rest, I simply don't believe he has been a colossal ass up one side and down the other.  I just don't.

And incidentally, I did hear that Ian Whoever (the AD Thomas pushed) was a huge turd.  Does that make it ok that Thomas pushed him?  Of course not.  None of this is okay.  But I think firing was extreme.  Suspension for half the season, maybe?  A public apology?  I dunno.  Virgil wanted blood.  He got it.  Hope he's happy.

Edited August 13, 2016 by Droogie
Because I used the word "colossal" twice in one paragraph.

[Princess Lucky]

10 minutes ago, Franky said:

As more information has come to light, I am leaning towards what you say, Princess Lucky. I still love Hotch dearly, and will always hold the character in the highest regard. Not sure about my feeling towards Thomas right now... feeling very conflicted. 

I actually think I'm being harsh because I blame TG for essentially causing the demise of Hotch, one of my favorite characters ever. If only he had behaved himself, Hotch would have gotten a nice ending, in the series finale. Now we won't get to see that, and it's his fault. As a Hotch fan, that upsets me.

9 minutes ago, Droogie said:

Personally I've said multiple times that kicking people/resorting to violence is just not ok.  I didn't quibble even a little about the suspension, but I think firing is over the top.  And the 2010 incident wasn't swept under the rug; I knew about it.  I'm guessing it was pretty common knowledge for people who follow the show closely. 

It was common knowledge? I admit I haven't been following the behind-the-scenes gossip. Wow. So it was known he had anger issues? That makes it even worse. He should be on his best behavior. I mean, how many people should he hit before getting fired? Three? Four? I assume the first incident resulted in some type of warning. A "you do this again and you're out" type of warning. And he did it again.

So he's out.

[WendyCR72]

Let's say Virgil did want Thomas Gibson's blood, as it were. All well and good, but the final call went to the network. Virgil could howl and scream all he likes, but the final call always comes from the suits.

So the fact that people actually did fire Gibson tells me that the preceding history factored in, this wasn't just some aberration, and it was decided to cut their losses. Considering that it seems like celebrities get away with tons, the fact that Gibson was fired says to me that his presence must have been disruptive long term.

And, right or wrong, maybe CBS sees this as a way to cut the series short, being 12 seasons in. It can't be all that cheap to produce now.

In the end, however, what's done is done. Time will tell if the show can go on or not.

[smoker]

39 minutes ago, Droogie said:

Personally I've said multiple times that kicking people/resorting to violence is just not ok.  I didn't quibble even a little about the suspension, but I think firing is over the top.  And the 2010 incident wasn't swept under the rug; I knew about it.  I'm guessing it was pretty common knowledge for people who follow the show closely.  

I have also never intimated that Thomas Gibson is without his problems or faults.  If he is to be believed, 2010 was about the time he and his wife separated.  Then we all know about the dreadful catfishing incident, the DUI and then his manager suing him.  It was a terrible time for him and in many photos, he looks positively awful. You never heard about any erratic behavior on his part on the set of "Chicago Hope" or "D&G."  So I think it's possible he was going through a tumultuous time personally and was not able to separate himself enough to maintain his composure on set.  I am not excusing violence.  As for the rest, I simply don't believe he has been a colossal ass up one side and down the other.  I just don't.

And incidentally, I did hear that Ian Whoever (the AD Thomas pushed) was a colossal turd.  Does that make it ok that Thomas pushed him?  Of course not.  None of this is okay.  But I think firing was extreme.  Suspension for half the season, maybe?  A public apology?  I dunno.  Virgil wanted blood.  He got it.  Hope he's happy.

Agree!!

And if every time some actor or celeb had a bad behavior was condened and punished I would feel less biased, but everybody looks other way because keeping the business working means money and jobs, and I think is unfair, this gentleman who was pushed a few years ago had to swallow his pride, or every person who works with Christian Bale or Kelsey Grammer or so many others. I don't know if I'd be happy working in a place where there are people who can be abused and other than not, thats unfair and snob and it offends me more than some "stars" bad behavior. If they behave that way is because they think/know they are allowed to do whatever they want without suffering the consequences. Basically, I am not jumping of happiness with their decision because they are just saving money and not making justice.

Edited August 13, 2016 by smoker

[Lebanna]

So, there's been a lot of comments about Virgil the producer or the other person Gibson shoved perhaps being terrible, annoying people. And maybe they are. It's quite possible. And there was something said about Virgil doing martial arts and being scary. But I haven't seen anything yet about either of these two people committing any acts of physical violence on any of the cast or crew. Gibson's got at least two cases. They haven't got any. If they did, I'm sure we'd be hearing about it pronto from 'sources close to Gibson'. So.

Edited August 13, 2016 by Lebanna

[JMO]

http://variety.com/2016/tv/news/thomas-gibson-criminal-minds-firing-previous-incidents-1201836799/

[marascross]

3 minutes ago, JMO said:

http://variety.com/2016/tv/news/thomas-gibson-criminal-minds-firing-previous-incidents-1201836799/

So they crank up the media campaign to get us to accept the loss?

The problem is, at this point, the show is just not worth it.

[ForeverAlone]

Since this article tracks with information I had heard in the past, I think it explains a lot. CBS certainly has to give some sort of explanation for Thomas's firing. 

[Danielg342]

1 hour ago, Lebanna said:

So, there's been a lot of comments about Virgil the producer or the other person Gibson shoved perhaps being terrible, annoying people. And maybe they are. It's quite possible. And there was something said about Virgil doing martial arts and being scary. But I haven't seen anything yet about either of these two people committing any acts of physical violence on any of the cast or crew. Gibson's got at least two cases. They haven't got any. If they did, I'm sure we'd be hearing about it pronto from 'sources close to Gibson'. So.

^ This. I couldn't have said it better. I work in a factory of 300 people- not quite the world of CM, but I still have to work with lots of people. Many of whom drive me to the point where I too feel like kicking them or punching them you-know-where. However, I control myself. I always say it's not worth escalating a situation that is likely going to be forgotten in ten minutes.

Which is why all this Virgil stuff is irritating. I'm not saying he's perfect or that he wasn't or isn't capable of being an ass. However, other people- as far as we know- are able to work with him without kicking him, so why can't Gibson?

Changing course- because I think we've exhausted the Gibson discussion and it likely more belongs in Hotch's thread (for now). I'm going to ask a simple question:

Where does CM go from here?

[Willowy]

Danielg342, why don't you make a new thread with that title? That's provocative and a good conversation starter.

[secnarf]

The only semi-description of the incident that I've seen supports the notion that it was more along the vein of self-defense than outright aggression - apparently TG walked away after the argument and thought VW was coming after him, so turned and kicked out on instinct. Obviously this is hearsay and should be taken with a grain of salt, but still.

Apparently TG won't be back to film any other scenes, so it does seem like he'll be written out off-screen.

As to people's speculation that Emily will come back to lead the team, as much as I love Emily, I can't see her getting to be team leader over Rossie or Reid, who have actually been around for the past few years.

[Danielg342]

3 minutes ago, Franky said:

Danielg342, why don't you make a new thread with that title? That's provocative and a good conversation starter.

I'm not a moderator, but I'd say technically, since this is the thread for the upcoming season and the place to discuss the upcoming arcs and storylines, this is where we'd discuss where the show proceeds from here. Talking about Hotch's issues or Gibson's issues goes in Hotch's thread.

That's just me though.

[thewhiteowl]

You are right, Daniel. That is what this thread is for. Thanks.

[Droogie]

40 minutes ago, JMO said:

http://variety.com/2016/tv/news/thomas-gibson-criminal-minds-firing-previous-incidents-1201836799/

Well, crap.  And I think Variety is a pretty reputable source.

(How shallow am I that I clicked the link and was first attracted to the profile of Reid in the pic before I started reading the article?)

Still, hate it, hate it, hate it.

[Willowy]

Oh sorry, I thought this thread was just for general speculation, etc...

It seemed prudent to start a specific thread for what may come next for CM due to Thomas's firing... but thanks for the correction!

[ForeverAlone]

Honestly, IF the writing holds, I think the show will be fine without Hotch. This show is a workplace drama; it's not a serialized soap opera, and workplaces are used to employee turnover. Many shows have done all right after longtime leads have left. Some thought SVU would shrivel and die without Christopher Meloni, but after some adjustments with the new characters, I still think it is an enjoyable show. Grey's Anatomy survived the departure of most of their lead actors, including Sandra Oh and Patrick Dempsey. CSI also lasted after many cast shakeups, though I think their problem at the end was a writing one and not a casting one. So it is possible for Criminal Minds to do just fine in a Hotchless environment, but there needs to be some good stories. The show has had a writing shakeup (some for the good, some for the bad), so it remains to be seen where the stories are going this season. Of course I wish Virgil had departed before this season began, because with the absence of Kim, I put him firmly at the bottom of the list of my preferred Criminal Minds writers. 

I am very curious what will be the story for Hotch's departure. As the Variety article stated, it doesn't look like Thomas will be coming back to film an exit episode, but maybe that will change and they will get him like they got Mandy. But if not, it will be interesting to see if they keep him on a new duty assignment indefinitely and just not mention it much, or have him be transferred or elect to retire. Or worst case scenario, they will invoke the dearly departed spirit of Gideon and have Hotch be killed offscreen by Mr. Scratch. I don't see them killing Hotch, so probably he'll just transfer to a new job. I am curious how his departure will affect any planned story arcs, because a Mr. Scratch without Hotch feels pointless. 

I'm also curious if they will eventually bring in a new unit chief to permanently replace Hotch (ala what they did with Joe to replace Mandy), or if there will be some sort of internal promotion within the team. Either way could potentially provide a new avenue for stories. The show thrived in the wake of Mandy's departure, because it opened up new opportunities for stories. Granted, that was nine years ago and the writing is different now, but I don't think this HAS to be the death knell for the show. Not if the show can improve the writing. I hope (though I won't get my hopes up) that Erica will take this opportunity to refocus stories on the team and not as much with the unsub. 

Edited August 13, 2016 by ForeverAlone

[Danielg342]

So where does the show go from here?

I think I'm in just as much shock as everyone else is about Gibson's firing. It absolutely sucks that we've lost a character many of us loved (I know I did), and- make no mistake- Hotch's absence leaves a mighty huge void. He didn't just lead the team in a technical sense, he was the team leader in spirit and in action as well. Sure, the character's potential hasn't been explored in years- possibly, I guess, because the writers didn't seem to like Gibson- but Hotch was still one of, if not the, most important character on CM.

Not easy to replace.

Since I'm still trying to really process everything, I'm just going to start with a few random notes:

-With Gibson gone, I really think this could actually be CM's final season. It'll depend on what the studio does from here, but considering we are getting (as of now) 20 Hotch-less episodes, that's more than enough time for CBS to evaluate if they have a future without Hotch. If Gibson had merely been just suspended, then I'd say otherwise.

-Having said that, I'm thinking that in the coming days or weeks, CBS is going to find a "big star" to come in and fill Hotch's place in the cast. It's inevitable (Adam Rodriguez doesn't count). This new star may not necessarily be the new Unit Chief, but they'll definitely be there to fill in for star power.

-Could this mean Emily Prentiss comes back as a regular? Paget Brewster could likely be a big enough star to justify the role of replacing Gibson, considering she's still extremely well liked by the CM fandom even though she hasn't been a regular in five seasons.

-Would I like Prentiss as Unit Chief? She'd have the chops, and five years leading a team at Interpol suggests she'd have the capabilities to run the team. I also think she's got the temperament to be a capable replacement, and Brewster commands the screen whenever she's on. Plus, for once, Prentiss would actually have direction as a character.

-Should Prentiss go over the likes of Rossi, Reid or JJ (all of which have been with the team for at least a decade)? I'm going to say it'd be a better choice. I'm not sure Reid's style is to be a team leader- Reid's style is suited more to teaching than being a FBI chief. Rossi is technically "next in line" but he's way up there in age. As for JJ...A.J. Cook improved a lot in S11, and JJ has experience being the team's spokesperson, which was Hotch's job. I could make a case she'd be good as Unit Chief, but I'm sure there'd be howls of protest here and I'm not sure her case is as ironclad's as Prentiss' would be.

-Having said that, remember Antonia Slade thought JJ "always wanted to be in charge"? Wouldn't that be a nice story to follow- either JJ actually now "getting what she wished for" or having to live with the fact she got bypassed.

-I'm not sure I'd like a total newcomer to come in and become the Unit Chief, unless the writers are committed to having the new Chief "learn on the job". It would be incredibly awkward to see a new face command the team and everyone acts like nothing had happened.

-Does Hotch die? I think, given the animosity, it's a strong possibility. I also believe it too will happen off-screen, which I think will be sad for the character but logistics are what they are.

-There is the possibility that, off-screen, Hotch is arrested for murdering someone related to Mr. Scratch (or, perhaps, framed for it, which we'd only find out if Hotch ever does come back). This would give Peter Lewis the impetuous to turn on the BAU, believing they sent Hotch after his associate (or him).

-I could get behind a "temporary" Unit Chief that's really a plant by Lewis, with the BAU having to work all season to unmask the plant. Of course, during the Replicator storyline the writers nixed having a BAU team member be the Replicator because "they'd catch that kind of thing", but I also doubt the BAU would decide their own Unit Chief, so it's still a possibility.

-Lastly, could Derek Morgan come back? Shemar Moore hated working with Gibson...maybe this allows him to come back to the show. I think I'd like it (Morgan was my favourite, after all) and Morgan actually does have experience leading the BAU, so it could work.

That's all I can think of for now.

[Picture It. Sicily]

9 hours ago, smoker said:

I think TG deserved to be punished for his behavior, actually, they could have let him out more episodes, but the dismissal is too much for this situation. Moreover, I think this measure was because Virgil W wanted TG's blood and he wasn't discreet about it.

I know it sounds biased, but my argument is a lot of actors have a bad behavior and the industry lets it slide because they bring money/audience. It's wrong but they do it all the time, and it seems they did it with TG more than once. So now, it seems unfair only Gibson had been punished if VW acted wrong too. It's just a matter of hypocrisy and publicity and not about good enviroment or respet between coworkers. 

Just my opinion

If anyone else on earth kicked a coworker,  they would lose their jobs. I'm really getting tired of people trying to justify this wildly inappropriate behavior. 

[smoker]

3 hours ago, Picture It. Sicily said:

If anyone else on earth kicked a coworker,  they would lose their jobs. I'm really getting tired of people trying to justify this wildly inappropriate behavior. 

I dont want to justify a violent behabior, as I said before they have been doing it for years and I think is very cheeky on their part use the "it was the right thing to do" only when its because of someone more important in the staff or conevenient for them.

Edited August 13, 2016 by smoker

[smoker]

I had already thought about a filming deal only a part of the week, just like Nathan Fillion a couple of years ago. The difference is his deal was made public and we were let guessing.

At least with Nathan Fillion audience knew he was a d-bag for sure and with Charlie Sheen they knew whats coming for a long time.

I just hope Messer keeps us in their plans. If TG is not filming any scenes. This is only about Hotch and the character deserves a good farewell, so do us.

Edited August 13, 2016 by smoker

[smoker]

10 hours ago, ForeverAlone said:

Honestly, IF the writing holds, I think the show will be fine without Hotch. This show is a workplace drama; it's not a serialized soap opera, and workplaces are used to employee turnover. Many shows have done all right after longtime leads have left. Some thought SVU would shrivel and die without Christopher Meloni, but after some adjustments with the new characters, I still think it is an enjoyable show. Grey's Anatomy survived the departure of most of their lead actors, including Sandra Oh and Patrick Dempsey. CSI also lasted after many cast shakeups, though I think their problem at the end was a writing one and not a casting one. So it is possible for Criminal Minds to do just fine in a Hotchless environment, but there needs to be some good stories. The show has had a writing shakeup (some for the good, some for the bad), so it remains to be seen where the stories are going this season. Of course I wish Virgil had departed before this season began, because with the absence of Kim, I put him firmly at the bottom of the list of my preferred Criminal Minds writers. 

I am very curious what will be the story for Hotch's departure. As the Variety article stated, it doesn't look like Thomas will be coming back to film an exit episode, but maybe that will change and they will get him like they got Mandy. But if not, it will be interesting to see if they keep him on a new duty assignment indefinitely and just not mention it much, or have him be transferred or elect to retire. Or worst case scenario, they will invoke the dearly departed spirit of Gideon and have Hotch be killed offscreen by Mr. Scratch. I don't see them killing Hotch, so probably he'll just transfer to a new job. I am curious how his departure will affect any planned story arcs, because a Mr. Scratch without Hotch feels pointless. 

I'm also curious if they will eventually bring in a new unit chief to permanently replace Hotch (ala what they did with Joe to replace Mandy), or if there will be some sort of internal promotion within the team. Either way could potentially provide a new avenue for stories. The show thrived in the wake of Mandy's departure, because it opened up new opportunities for stories. Granted, that was nine years ago and the writing is different now, but I don't think this HAS to be the death knell for the show. Not if the show can improve the writing. I hope (though I won't get my hopes up) that Erica will take this opportunity to refocus stories on the team and not as much with the unsub. 

Agree. Everything is possible with a good writing. Although, it would be ironic after all the poor work for years they started to deliver high quality scripts right now. 

Anyway, what I loved about this show has been gone for years,  I only watched to get my Hotch fix. I am not interested (and never was) in Alias 2.0 or whatever Messer has planned.

I will watch to know Hotch fate and I hope they focus on the best for the character, the show and the fans.

Of course, I would love a happy ending kind of The mentalist, but I don't think that's happening. They only need to give Hotch a promotion, taking things back to season 9 premiere. Reid said if Hotch went higher in the ranks they only would see his name written on their files/reports. Moreover, Esai Morales is filming another show and he's never around. It's perfect.

Edited August 13, 2016 by smoker

[Morrigan2575]

I love Hotch and, it's a shame about TG but, he pretty much brought this on himself. No on should be forced to work in a hostile environment. Physical violence in the workplace and, yes a shove/kick is physical violence, is unacceptable.  

[storyskip]

4 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I love Hotch and, it's a shame about TG but, he pretty much brought this on himself. No on should be forced to work in a hostile environment. Physical violence in the workplace and, yes a shove/kick is physical violence, is unacceptable.  

Starting out with the disclaimer that resorting to violence is never an acceptable option and speaks to anger issues.

But are we saying that it's okay for a work environment to be hostile, so long as it remains verbal?  I think it's safe to say that in the way VW has been conducting himself on social media and comments made about the man, he created a hostile work environment through his words and actions and now the remaining cast has to deal with his attitude.

I feel sorry for them.

[normasm]

I agree, storyskip. I don't know how TPTB can leave him in as a writer/producer of CM. He needs to go make another show miserable.

[Lebanna]

I've heard this Virgil Williams guy is a bit silly on Twitter (I don't use Twitter) but apart from his obvious issues with Gibson (and it's sounding, sadly, more and more like quite a few people in the cast and crew had issues with Gibson) do we actually know if anyone else involved with the show actually wants Williams gone? Because if not, perhaps the rest of them are fine with him.

[SSAHotchner]

26 minutes ago, normasm said:

I agree, storyskip. I don't know how TPTB can leave him in as a writer/producer of CM. He needs to go make another show miserable.

I love this! 

[thewhiteowl]

If VW had made the work place a hostile environment, TG had options other than getting physical. He chose and has paid the price. It's not against the law to be an ass if indeed VW is one but it is to assault. Hotch was my fav for a long time but he hasn't had much of a presence in the last few seasons IMO that probably played into TG's frustrations. Sad situation. I just can't blame VW, if a coworker kicked me, I'd want them fired. 

[Morrigan2575]

49 minutes ago, storyskip said:

Starting out with the disclaimer that resorting to violence is never an acceptable option and speaks to anger issues.

But are we saying that it's okay for a work environment to be hostile, so long as it remains verbal?  I think it's safe to say that in the way VW has been conducting himself on social media and comments made about the man, he created a hostile work environment through his words and actions and now the remaining cast has to deal with his attitude.

I feel sorry for them.

No , I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying that going by the Variety article and previous known incidents that TG is the one that created a hostile working environment. 

I have no idea what anyone is saying on Twitter but, it doesn't take a genius to figure out that if anyone else involved in this incident, especially a writer, was violent or contributing to a hostile work environment they'd have been fired along with TG. From what i can tell this guy is a writer with a Producer credit  (which just gives him extra $ and probably residuals). There is no way that CBS/ABC would protect a Writer over an Actor/Star.

However, going by comments here it seems people would prefer to blame the the other guy  (who wasn't violent) in order to mitigate/excuse TGs actions.