S07.E21: Requiem for a Dream

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

When Damon’s risky attempt to save Bonnie takes an unexpected turn, the consequences of his actions forces everyone to band together to help her pull through. Meanwhile, when a new threat leaves Caroline’s life in jeopardy, Stefan makes a rash decision that ultimately forces them to face the fallout from their relationship. Elsewhere, Enzo tries to hold it together as he painfully watch Bonnie in the fight of her life, while Matt takes matters into his own hands to save one of his closest friends.

 

 

 

[Like A Phoenix]

I was distracted for most of the episode thinking that if Bonnie's vampire-murdering ways are a spell, why don't they just get the Saltzman twins to give her a hug and siphon the magic away? Wouldn't that be a lot easier?

[roses]

Its been awhile since the last Elena conversations but of course it was the Elena mentions getting through to Bonnie and seriously "I love you like Elena loves you" what? These writers lol. The finale is next week so we will find out what will happen with the huntress sl.

Edited May 6, 2016 by roses

[Jack Sampson]

So, will everyone who's marked die when Bonnie dies?  Or did they conveniently forget that part of the mark?

[GraceAnne]

5 hours ago, Like A Phoenix said:

I was distracted for most of the episode thinking that if Bonnie's vampire-murdering ways are a spell, why don't they just get the Saltzman twins to give her a hug and siphon the magic away? Wouldn't that be a lot easier?

I was thinking the same thing.

Caroline saying she "called" Klaus instead of  she "went to see" Klaus...... On another show this wouldn't bother me too much but on TVD it's just another sign they don't even watch their own show.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I'm glad that Caroline brought up the obvious hypocrisy of Stefan respecting Elena's choices (repeatedly) but not respecting Caroline's choice because that was annoying me.

I only remember Elena and Caroline being cheerleaders, but not Bonnie. I specifically remember in S1 Elena telling Bonnie that during cheer practice, Caroline had complained that Elena's ponytail didn't have enough zhuzh. The way she said it made it seem like Bonnie wasn't there.

So, will everyone who's marked die when Bonnie dies?  Or did they conveniently forget that part of the mark?

Originally it was only vampires who were stabbed by the special hunter's knife thingie that the hunter could track (meaning if Rayna happened to stab a vampire with something else, there was no mark tying her to them) and who would die when the hunter died. Mary Louise and Nora destroyed the hunter's knife so in theory, Bonnie shouldn't be able to mark anyone. Stefan's explanation is that when Caroline went into Bonnie's head, Bonnie created a psychic link with her and the scar left by Bonnie stabbing her was a manifestation of that connection (not an actual hunter's mark). I guess that psychic connection is how Bonnie was able to see where Caroline and Damon were the way that Rayna could see where her marked vampires were. But because they're not actually marked with the magical hunter's knife, they won't die when Bonnie dies. At least that was the way I rationalized it in my head.

I'm glad Matt finally admitted that Penny dying was his fault. And I liked that he was the only one who came close to getting through to Bonnie. I mean, yes, Stefan and Damon have done some bad things but there's no need to blame them for things that aren't actually their fault.

I was annoyed that once Caroline decided to run away with Stefan, he started pressuring her to choose between him and Alaric. BACK OFF, MAN. She ran away with you to keep Alaric and the kids out of Bonnie's path, not to be with you. Great that you guys sort of cleared the air, but telling her that she "can't keep putting these decisions off" a few hours after she's decided to run for her life is really selfish.

Damn it, we have to go back to the Armory next week? Boooooooo. I hope that when Damon and Enzo are done there, they just blow the damn thing up so that we never have to see or hear about it again.

[bobbysgurl]

^^ Bonnie was a cheerleader.  The very first time she finds out who the "sexy danger guy" was is when Damon brings Caroline to practice. Bonnie and Elena are talking and Bonnie keeps calling Carolie because she's concerned that Caroline is going to be late for practice (if I remember correctly) when Damon drives up with Caroline.

[Artsda]

I wish Caroline would have just put her kids first. Now she's on the run and Stefan's getting what he wanted and is already wanting her to dump her family. Caroline should pick Alaric and that life.

[Jack Sampson]

4 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I was annoyed that once Caroline decided to run away with Stefan, he started pressuring her to choose between him and Alaric. BACK OFF, MAN. She ran away with you to keep Alaric and the kids out of Bonnie's path, not to be with you. Great that you guys sort of cleared the air, but telling her that she "can't keep putting these decisions off" a few hours after she's decided to run for her life is really selfish.

Alaric is supposed to be in his mid 30s, right?  Stefan wouldn't have to wait forever - and the dude has all the time in the world now that his mark is gone.

[miss-vanilla]

1 hour ago, Jack Sampson said:

Alaric is supposed to be in his mid 30s, right?  Stefan wouldn't have to wait forever - and the dude has all the time in the world now that his mark is gone.

True, but the writers are not even trying with this story are they? Caroline is paying lip service to her feelings of betrayal by Stefan, her reactions to him are half-hearted at best, especially when you consider how powerfully Bonnie continues to hate Damon in the parallel storylines.

[TigerLynx]

Despite the ridiculousness of the SL that got them here, I am still enjoying the scenes with Damon, Bonnie, and Enzo.

Shut up Stefan.  You took off three years ago without even bothering to talk to Caroline.  That's not a real adult or mature way to handle a relationship.  Here's an idea, deal with your own issues, and give Caroline some space to figure things out for herself.

[miss-vanilla]

Yeah, I guess if we just close our eyes, and pretend that we haven't watched the rest of this show and view this episode at face value, it was entertaining. Well the Enzo/Bonnie/Damon stuff anyway.

Stefan has been douche all season, and everytime he opens his mouth he just keeps reinforcing that notion. I just can't with him and his scenes with Damon or Caroline. When it suits he doesn't want to let Caroline choose for herself, well fine I have no problem with that, but get the hell off your brothers back and stop criticizing everything he does, you are not helping. The Steroline scenes just lacked, I have never seen Caroline more boring. 

I loved Damon's line " No more Stefaning this situation, I got to be me", hell yeah!  Damon screws up, but he does it for the right reasons mostly, and, he will always try to fix his mistakes. (by screwing up again mostly, lol), but that's Damon, he least he does something, he isn't completely passive or ineffective.

Yes Bonnie is a threat to everyone right now, but she isn't dead. I love that pragmatism, it gets him into trouble as often as it saves the day, but he is at least making stuff happen.

The Bamon shippers were dealt a bit of a blow with the I love you like Elena does speech. I can't say I'm surprised given the narrative this season, and given that I was a DE shipper I was glad to hear that his love was almost familial in nature, It has been that that bond that has kept Damon from letting Bonnie die, much in the same way he couldn't let Stefan die for his happiness. I hope they keep this relationship on that footing, it is working really well, and those scenes are better than the Defan dynamic IMO.

Bonnie and Enzo had such lovely scenes together, until she staked him with a guitar- very creative Bonnie- I like it. Woah, talking of which, how great were those scenes at the top of the episode? Burning Enzo and beheading Caroline!!! They got me. Kat did a fantastic job in this whole episode, I bought all her scenes and she showed her range. Bravo.

Even Matt managed to be less annoying than usual........mostly.

Overall, some good dialogue, great acting, and awesome directing- well done Mr Paul Wesley. It's not enough to counter the terrible stuff and mythology that has come before that lead to where we are now, but hopefully the season will end well and next season will get back to basics.

[Jack Sampson]

Is Bonnie no longer a witch now?

[Primetimer]

Good opener, but thanks for the heart attack, jeez.

View the full article

[ElectricBoogaloo]

2 hours ago, doram said:

There is so much meta I can write based on this, how Black women are erased by the writers/directors of this show, but also how it seems almost 'learned' to ignore Black women, and not 'see' them. Because Bonnie being a cheerleader is such a basic fact of her high school experience, and something we see several times during the course of the show. There's practically no time we see Caroline as a cheerleader, that we don't see Bonnie also participating. Even in Elena's pre-series flashbacks of season 3, when she's shown in costume, Bonnie is right along side her.

The particular scene you're talking about above follows after Elena's first day back at cheer practice (from a long timeout after her parents's death) when Caroline asks her to 'sit this one out' because Elena doesn't know the cheers, and Bonnie gives her a sympathetic look. Elena is complaining to Bonnie because Bonnie is trying to talk her into staying on as a cheerleader when it's clear that Elena's heart is no longer in it.

Technically speaking, Elena was a cheerleader for the first 2 episodes of the show, then only again three seasons later as a humanity-free vampire. Yet somehow the memory of her being a cheerleader is more accessible than of Bonnie who was shown in her costume and participating in games far more frequently. 

Forgetting that Bonnie was a cheerleader has less to do with being racist and more about me not remembering lots of things. Not only do I forget where I left my keys at least once a week, but I often refer to the wiki for TVD (I used to go back to the TWOP recaps too but for some reason they weren't accessible the last time I tried to view them - and it was all of them, not just TVD, so hopefully it was just a temporary glitch and not that they were all deleted). A few episodes ago when Rayna said that all the vampires trapped in the phoenix stone had been released and put into the closest body after Nora and Mary Louise destroyed the magical sword, the first thing I thought was oh crap, now Julian is out there somewhere in someone else's body and he's going to come after Stefan and Damon! I couldn't believe that no one else was in the least bit concerned about this until I checked the wiki and saw that Stefan killed Julian in 7B. Then I was like oh, right, that just happened a few episodes ago. So yeah, I'm not the person you want to rely on to remember things. On the flip side, I also remember very specific (and often useless) details. I still remember my seventh grade boyfriend's phone number, the song that was playing on the radio in the car when I was arguing with my mom about going to see a movie when I was in tenth grade, the exact phrase that my friend's ex-boyfriend wrote in my senior yearbook, and lots of other little things that I clearly have no use for. Meanwhile, a patient asked me a question at work a few days ago and I drew a total blank. I only remembered Elena being a cheerleader because of that ponytail zhuzh comment. I had forgotten that she later rejoined after she decided to embrace her vampireness (which resulted in her eating that other cheerleader and then stealing her blue hair ribbon which is what clued in whoever was trying to get her to behave (Stefan? Damon? Caroline?) that she was treating the cheer competition like a buffet) until you mentioned it and even then what I really remembered was the blue ribbon in her hair. When I saw Bonnie in that cheerleading uniform, I knew the burgundy color was correct but I thought the uniforms had more white stripes on the front or were somehow different (didn't they have cropped halter tops?) which is what made me think that Bonnie was not a cheerleader because she was imagining them incorrectly. 

 

Quote

Bonnie and Enzo had such lovely scenes together, until she staked him with a guitar- very creative Bonnie

 

Ha, as soon as I saw that the guitar was the only wooden thing in the room, I was waiting for her to stab him with it!

After Caroline was the first one staked in Bonnie's mind, I thought okay, now would be a great time to tell Alaric that his original idea to chain Bonnie up was a good plan. I was expecting her to wake up and try to kill one of her vampire friends while they were sitting on the bed with her. 

ETA: HA, my memory is both good and bad. I went back to look for the original cheerleading uniforms and they were crop tops with stripes straight across the bottom (as seen on Elena and Bonnie) but the uniform that Bonnie was wearing in this episode was the newer version they used for the competition where Elena was eating cheerleaders (with a longer top and two sets of stripes in a V). This is why I trust google more than my own memory!

 

Edited May 7, 2016 by ElectricBoogaloo

[MrsMommy]

I think vampire diaries is trying to kill its self to go off air. I mean this season just seems awful.

[miss-vanilla]

@ElectricBoogaloo

Yeah. The forgetting minor details of things is a common thing. I'm terrible when I read a book. I constantly have to go back pages to remember people and things because unless it is about the main event, I forget.

I remember forgetting the whole Caroline had a dad that tortured her then died thing until another poster on a forum reminded me that Caroline had lost both her parents.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

@miss-vanilla - ha, that's exactly the kind of thing that I forget even though it was a pretty major thing at the time that it happened. It drives me crazy when I don't remember bigger stuff like that but I remember something minor (like Elena wearing that blue ribbon). At least with a book, it's easy to flip back through the pages. With seven seasons of TVD, sometimes I have no idea when something that I actually remember happened on the show. I'm still shaking my head at the fact that I somehow forgot Stefan killed Julian. I was rooting for that guy to die all season so you'd think I would at least remember that.

Edited May 7, 2016 by ElectricBoogaloo
trying to fix the @ tag

[TigerLynx]

It doesn't help with the minor details when the writers can't be bothered to remember them either.  I liked Elena, but I remember getting really aggravated with the show for always referencing Elena's losses, and forgetting about everyone else's.  Jeremy had all the same losses Elena did.  Their parents, Aunt Jenna, Vicki and Anna, Bonnie died how many times.  Bonnie's grandmother and father are dead, her mother is a vampire.  Both Caroline's parents are dead.  Tyler's mother, father, uncle are all dead.  Matt lost Vicki.  I was so glad Bonnie referenced Damon killing and turning Vicki because he was bored, and Stefan admitting to Caroline he regretted doing what Elena wanted and saving Matt first.  However, if the writers can remember those things they should be able to remember their own mythology instead of throwing it out the window whenever it suits them to move the plot along.

For all of Damon's mistakes, he does get results.  Damon knew if he got Bonnie angry enough, she would wake up.  It's funny that Damon and Enzo felt the same about Bonnie.  Even if Bonnie woke up hating and wanting to kill them, that was fine with them just so long as she woke up.

Damon being proud of Stefan for vervaining Caroline was funny.

[PTVjones]

How much do you want to bet that the season finale will be Bonnie "convincing" Damon that his feelings for her are more than just a best-friend-like-Elena type love? I mean yea... the show has pretty much proven that if you get into Damon's emotional inner circle, he'll do what he has to do to take care of you, which he's done for Bonnie. However, he was clearly disturbed by Bonnie and Enzo's relationship in the previous episode and I'm sure there was a part of Bonnie that LOVED to rub that in his face. 

Since Bonnie seems to be the female lead on this show, and all female leads require a love triangle or else there not worthy of substantial plot lines, I'm willing to be Bonnie will pretty much say his feelings are BS and if he really thought about it, he started to have deep feelings for her in that  parallel universe jail they were in. Bonnie doesn't get the ... honor I suppose of just happening to get 2 guys to fall in love with her at once, she has to beg Damon to see the true feelings he has for her. That's why she still wanted to kill him after his literal stump speech. Not because of the course, but because she knew that he was full of it. 

[immortalfrieza]

14 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I'm glad that Caroline brought up the obvious hypocrisy of Stefan respecting Elena's choices (repeatedly) but not respecting Caroline's choice because that was annoying me.

The worst part is it's not even true anyway. I could count the number of times Stefan or anyone else for that matter has given a rat's ass about "respecting Elena's choices" both pre and post vampirism on one hand and still have fingers left over, the "save Matt instead of me" that they keep bringing up when this kind of thing comes up being only one of very few. To be fair to these people, Elena was so poor at making choices that she would have gotten killed a hundred times over during the course of this show if she was allowed to make the vast majority of them so they had good reason not to let her. Caroline herself has demonstrated a distinct lack of respect for Elena's choices on more than one occasion. Stefan kidnapping Caroline and dragging her off somewhere safer is pretty much par for the course as far as these kind of things are concerned.

20 hours ago, Like A Phoenix said:

I was distracted for most of the episode thinking that if Bonnie's vampire-murdering ways are a spell, why don't they just get the Saltzman twins to give her a hug and siphon the magic away? Wouldn't that be a lot easier?

As I recall, they tried siphoning with the hunter's mark when Stefan first got it and it completely failed to work so I'm not surprised they didn't try it here. Actually, the entire "Bonnie's life is bonded to Elena's" thing, or the fact that this Armory vault was magically sealed, or any number of other things could have been solved with siphoners if the writers bothered to remember their existence..

Speaking of what these writers conveniently forget, shouldn't the vampire cast have been completely unable to do their mind trickery on Bonnie? She's a hunter now, therefore she should be immune to compulsion and magic in general.

9 hours ago, Jack Sampson said:

Alaric is supposed to be in his mid 30s, right?  Stefan wouldn't have to wait forever - and the dude has all the time in the world now that his mark is gone.

They COULD mention that fact and thus remove all the false dilemmas over this, but then both the audience and the characters themselves might just realize that all the drama over this ridiculous love triangle they have going on has nothing to stand on. Actually a lot of dilemmas on this show wouldn't really be dilemmas if the writers could remember that most of the cast is effectively immortal.

Probably one of the things that annoyed me in this episode the most was Caroline is STILL acting like Stefan leaving her behind was entirely his fault. Caroline needs to stop acting like she's some scorned ex that got dropped out of nowhere. Girl, he didn't abandon you, he ran for his life because he knew he'd get you and your new family killed if he didn't, and then you stopped reading the letters he was sending you all the time and then have the audacity to whine about the fact that he never contacted you. What worse, she decides to put him down for simply taking the opportunity to go to some nice places while he's at it.

Edited May 7, 2016 by immortalfrieza

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

What worse, she decides to put him down for simply taking the opportunity to go to some nice places while he's at it.

I did the laughing/eye rolling combination when she bitched about how he was in Paris and Bora Bora sipping mai tais. I don't blame him for going to vacation spots. If you're on the run and you have to keep moving to escape someone who's tracking you, why would you go to shitty places if you could go somewhere nice? Like somehow she would have been less offended if he had been hiding in Antarctica freezing his ass off.

[GaT]

I can't wait until this season is over

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Inside the episode:

 

Clip:

[miss-vanilla]

5 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I did the laughing/eye rolling combination when she bitched about how he was in Paris and Bora Bora sipping mai tais. I don't blame him for going to vacation spots. If you're on the run and you have to keep moving to escape someone who's tracking you, why would you go to shitty places if you could go somewhere nice? Like somehow she would have been less offended if he had been hiding in Antarctica freezing his ass off.

Well he wasn't being chased, Rayna was locked up and Caroline was aware of that. If he were truly running for his life, I would be completely on his side.

I wonder if she know he was in a relationship with Valerie?

[miss-vanilla]

It makes no sense for Caroline to leave her family to run from huntress Bonnie. As proved when Stefan ran, the huntress still used Caroline and Damon as bait to draw him out. What is preventing Bonnie doing the same thing to Alaric and the children who are basically sitting ducks now.

[Fallacy]

I hate that this isn't the last season of this stupid show. I am a completionist so I continue watching even though none of it makes any damn sense as you all so smartly point out each week. I'm shocked that there are still enough viewers left to justify another season. 

I'm guessing that Damon and Enzo will somehow free Bonnie of the hunter's curse and in the process release next season's "big bad." Yippee. 

[Argenta]

I just can't believe how stoopid all the vamps were in this episode. They've seen enough of Rayna in action that they should understand that you can't 'persuade' someone not to be a huntress by appealing to their better nature or whatever. Damon, Caroline and Enzo should all have stayed well away from Bonnie as per Alaric's advice, but no. They all had to get up in her subconscious and get their asses kicked one after the other, despite having seen how well it worked for the person who tried before them. 

Caroline in particular with all her nonsense about how she's 'the best person' for Bonnie to see on waking...please.

Idiots.

[TigerLynx]

7 hours ago, miss-vanilla said:

Well he wasn't being chased, Rayna was locked up and Caroline was aware of that. If he were truly running for his life, I would be completely on his side.

I wonder if she know he was in a relationship with Valerie?

I agree.  Stefan could have told  Caroline he was going to try to remove the mark because he didn't trust the Armory to keep Rayne on ice, and given her the choice of going with him or staying with Alaric and the twins.

1 hour ago, Argenta said:

I just can't believe how stoopid all the vamps were in this episode. They've seen enough of Rayna in action that they should understand that you can't 'persuade' someone not to be a huntress by appealing to their better nature or whatever. Damon, Caroline and Enzo should all have stayed well away from Bonnie as per Alaric's advice, but no. They all had to get up in her subconscious and get their asses kicked one after the other, despite having seen how well it worked for the person who tried before them. 

Caroline in particular with all her nonsense about how she's 'the best person' for Bonnie to see on waking...please.

Idiots.

For the last several seasons, the plot lines require the characters to be idiots.  If they did the smart thing just once, the problem would be solved.

I find it morbidly amusing that anytime Damon says they need to kill someone, and the rest of the group says no there is another option, they end up killing that person only after the current villain of the moment murdered several people amid constant chaos and destruction.  This from the people who tried to kill Klaus 50 million times, even after they knew Klaus dying could end all of their lives to.

Stefan agreed with Elena handing herself over to Klaus for the sacrifice.  Stefan agreed with Elena when she wanted to meet with Esther alone.

Stefan has put more effort into keeping Damon alive and with him than he ever did Elena or Caroline.  I hope Caroline remembers that.

[TigerLynx]

Damon and Stefan were still fine with killing Klaus, even if it killed them, so long as it kept Klaus away from Elena.  Damon even told Klaus he was fine with dying if it meant Klaus died, and Elena lived.

[formerlyfreedom]

Episode, please.

[DigitalCount]

23 hours ago, immortalfrieza said:

The worst part is it's not even true anyway. I could count the number of times Stefan or anyone else for that matter has given a rat's ass about "respecting Elena's choices" both pre and post vampirism on one hand and still have fingers left over, the "save Matt instead of me" that they keep bringing up when this kind of thing comes up being only one of very few. To be fair to these people, Elena was so poor at making choices that she would have gotten killed a hundred times over during the course of this show if she was allowed to make the vast majority of them so they had good reason not to let her. Caroline herself has demonstrated a distinct lack of respect for Elena's choices on more than one occasion. Stefan kidnapping Caroline and dragging her off somewhere safer is pretty much par for the course as far as these kind of things are concerned.

I found this hilarious, since Elena herself was doing this way back in S1. Remember when she just let Damon waltz into the house with zero supervision and compel Jeremy to forget how Vicki died for his own good during his Evil Pixie Monster days? But there is a pattern where Stefan does step back on the big things, like when Elena said she didn't want to be a vampire and then Damon force-fed her his blood. I think for the most part though, you're pretty much right on target here.

[TigerLynx]

I think whether or not the characters respect someone's choices depends completely on the plot of the moment.  Stefan could have gotten Caroline away from Bonnie before she went into Bonnie's head and was marked.  As someone else pointed out, they could have gone with Alaric's plan of chaining Bonnie, the vampires leave, and let Alaric and Matt try to reach Bonnie.

Damon telling Enzo he hoped Enzo could get through to Bonnie because if it came down to Damon having to try they were all screwed turned out to be true although not in the way Damon expected it to.

[immortalfrieza]

On 5/7/2016 at 10:40 AM, Argenta said:

I just can't believe how stoopid all the vamps were in this episode. They've seen enough of Rayna in action that they should understand that you can't 'persuade' someone not to be a huntress by appealing to their better nature or whatever. Damon, Caroline and Enzo should all have stayed well away from Bonnie as per Alaric's advice, but no. They all had to get up in her subconscious and get their asses kicked one after the other, despite having seen how well it worked for the person who tried before them. 

Caroline in particular with all her nonsense about how she's 'the best person' for Bonnie to see on waking...please.

Idiots.

It reminds me of how Jeremy became a Hunter and then ended up with such an magically induced hatred of vampires he was trying to kill his sister against his will. They tried to appeal to his better nature and his love for his sister and it didn't work then either, why would it work now? In fact, it was Damon who said the entire idea of them doing so was stupid, I altered it a bit but this is what he said:

Quote

Damon: If you all think using a vampire to suppress the need to kill another one is going to work on a Hunter, it's like dangling a cheeseburger in front of someone on a master cleanse.

And he was absolutely right. How do these people expect doing basically the same thing with Bonnie now that she's a Huntress would end up any differently? Ironically, it was Bonnie herself who turned out to be the non vampire they used as the solution for that situation.

Edited May 9, 2016 by immortalfrieza

[miss-vanilla]

@immortalfrieza

I think you are absolutely right. I don't like that in order for these crazy plots to work in any way, they have to dumb down the gang or make them forget their own history. Back in the early days the gang as a whole seemed much more intelligent and Damon especially was very observant and intuitive. They were often beaten or outsmarted because the likes of Katherine or Klaus not because they were stupid or because they did dumb things (ok occasionally maybe), but because these villains were genius master planners with centuries of experience. It was believable back then.

Now, with everything they know, Damon had no clue that potentially Bonnie could become a vampire hunter after taking over a vampire hunter's last life? TBH, I'm not sure that would have stopped Damon anyway, so why not just play it like that rather than make the main character look stupid?

Caroline looked incredibly stupid, and vapid in this episode. Going on the run from a huntress who knows where you live, and who to use as bait is a pointless exercise no matter how far away you run. What have they done to this once vibrant character? she is dull as dish water now.

Next episode, they will all undoubtedly do even more stupid things.

[phoenix780]

Are they intentionally riffing on Buffy the Vampire Slayer? I know the show is a descendant, but the vampire hunter (created by a shaman) in the cheerleader outfit... 

I don't know what outcome I'm hoping for. I'm more curious about random stuff, like did Bonnie's spell to seal the armory survive her latest...death? Did she actually die? 

And if the armory is sealed, how do they get in? 

[grandemocha]

The way Stefan acted in his scenes with Caroline is exactly the kind of character trait (selfishness?( I HATE and have seen so many times in certain characters on the show. I mean Caroline has two young little girls that probably love her so much since she's the only mother they have ever known and Stefan clearly doesn't care. I know Alaric falls in love way too often, but damn do I feel a tiny bit bad for him. He keeps trying to start his life over and over again, but it never seems to work out. Ultimately I suppose it would have never worked out since she's an immortal vampire, but I just hate the cop out the writers took of having Caroline stupidly marked so now she has to run with Stefan (and will fall in love with him again).

[samidimera]

Is it just me or is Caroline seriously overrated? Why is it that everyone in her life falls desperately in love with her? I don't get it.  Matt, Tyler, Stefan, Enzo for a second a few seasons ago was all about how hot she was, Klaus, Stefan and now Alaric?  Comments are made like "I can only hope I'm worthy of her"?? I mean, seriously, just what the heck?  I used to love Caroline many moons ago when she was the mean girl - selfish, snotty, loyal, trustworthy, bad tempered, insecure.  She was so fabulous.  But then around season 4 she just became super judgey.  She's unforgiving and hateful, along with judgmental which makes for a seriously bad combination.  She has made her share of mistakes but if someone dares to be mad at her about them she says things like "get over it", but when someone screws up  around her she's all about holding a grudge for years and years.  Honest to God, she makes me sick. And let's be honest here - everybody knows that the reason she pretended to think she was the best person to help Bonnie, was because she wanted Alaric to go away so she could share some moments with Stefan. Eyerollingly disgusting. The fact that Alaric is in love with her makes me want to barf.  The fact that Stefan is in love with her after 3 years apart, even though they only dated for a second, makes me want to barf too.  The end of the episode where she said "don't make me choose right now", is incredibly self involved. The fact that she even has a choice is disgusting.  Out of respect for Alaric, she should have run off on her own, not with Stefan.  Or at the very least be honest with him about her feelings for Stefan.  And Caroline's whole speech about deserving the same respect Elena got.  How about Alaric deserves a little bit of respect too? But what does she care if she hurts him and his daughters.  Cause it's all about her. I can't remember when I've hated a character so much.   She needs to be knocked down a peg or two.  The best part of the episode was when Bonnie beheaded her.  I was hoping it was real.

[Oracle42]

I think some of it is CB's ability to generate chemistry, some of it is that she's more like the Elena from the books and a disturbing amount of it is Plec over-identifying. I liked Caroline with most of her love interests but I've never seen anything other than friend chemistry between Stefan/Catoline and I wish they'd left it at that

Edited May 13, 2016 by Oracle42