S04.E20: Genesis

[ComicFan777]

I just noticed that Oliver's been sleeping on a cot that looks remarkably like the one that Felicity bought him in comics 2.5 - I'm assuming it's one in the same.  I wouldn't have been surprised if Felicity recognized her pillow on his bed and said, "hey, is that my pillow?" and it turns out that not only has he been sleeping on the "thank you bed" she gifted him, but he's also been sleeping on her pillow, too.

It's really remarkable how crazy in love he is - all Oliver needs is Felicity - he would rather live in the lair and sleep in the bed that she bought especially for him than live in the empty loft without her.   

I love the callbacks in this episode...so looking forward to the rest of this season.

[wonderwall]

All the callbacks just showed me that the writers are going back to basics, aka the things that made this show popular in the first place and I welcome it. 

If there's any episode that requires these sort of callbacks, it's definitely an episode after which the writers got rid of the most useless character on the show

[AyChihuahua]

You know what I appreciate? No one has mentioned the dumb kid in any meaningful way. He was a one-off joke last episode, but overall, especially considering how much Oliver WOULD DO ANYTHING FOR HIS SON OMG (even though kid's a moron and Oliver didn't even know him, man I was so hoping Laura Hurley got it right and they'd play Oliver as not instantly LOVING OMG this kid he knew jack about, which is actually pretty realistic, see, e.g., birth families when the kid finds the parents later and it's all really weird and awkward-yes, I hate the dumb kid-ok aside over), Oliver seems to have forgotten the kid's and his horrible mother's names. He's much more upset about Felicity dumping him. The dumb kid wasn't even in the sad times montage...which I just realized. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH!

LOVE IT. Let the dumb kid and his horrible lying hag of a mother remain forgotten forever. Amen.

[EmeraldArcher]

1 hour ago, nksarmi said:

I have a hard time comparing Team Arrow to HP kid characters. I mean sure you can do Felicity equals Hermione pretty easily, but Oliver does not fit Harry at all - well with the possible exception of when Harry wants to do things all on his own, but he has far more tendency to rely on his friends than Oliver. For me, Oliver would be more like Lupin - damaged with darkness lurking within, but a genuinely good guy.

#Poppy is a dementor--she sucks the life out of any scene she's in! #BOOM

[looptab]

I'd say LL was the dementor in the Arrowverse :D

[EmeraldArcher]

13 minutes ago, looptab said:

I'd say LL was the dementor in the Arrowverse :D

More like Moaning Myrtle! 

Bwahahaha!

[looptab]

LoL true!

[doesntworkonwood]

Did anyone else think it was weird that they had the score playing whilst Thea was talking about the birds chirping and the dog bark the first time? When she was outside with Alex. 

I thought it was pretty funny that Thea was discussing why she felt so uncomfortable, whilst the soundtrack was blocking the reason out anyway. Strange editing strikes again. 

[AudienceofOne]

On 05/05/2016 at 11:28 AM, GirlvsTV said:

I'm having the weirdest reaction to this episode. I think the Genesis stuff is both nonsensical and a total Undertaking retread, I hate the magic stuff, was irritated by all the LL mentions and find the 'defeating dark with light' plot to be eye roll levels of cheesy and yet . . . I still enjoyed this episode? What is wrong with me?

Dhark: We will launch GENESIS!

Me: Who gives a fuck? As far as we're aware, Genesis is about growing corn. It's hard to care, Arrow, when it's episode 20 and we know jackshit about Dhark or his plans other than "magic and evil".

(Also... magic. Ergh. And it's here to stay. No matter what else this shows improves, I may be driven out by the endless stupid that is the existence of magic in this universe.)

But I digress, because my actual point was... we get to the end and Andy is dead, Lyla got to be a total BAMF, Felicity and Oliver got to have some really great moments and save the team and we know Dhark's plan. FINALLY, I get to care about his nefarious corn growing. And it was actually very cool.

But the magic, you guys, we have to get rid of the magic.

[BkWurm1]

I have a feeling that next season if there is any magic, it will be limited to one off episodes rather than an overreaching arc. 

[BkWurm1]

12 hours ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

Oh, nice touch. Someone in the makeup department remembered to put Felicity's scar. Kinda forgot where on her back it is exactly. Looks like it moved a little :P

For reference:

I wonder if we will ever see her new scars. 

[bijoux]

22 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

I have a feeling that next season if there is any magic, it will be limited to one off episodes rather than an overreaching arc. 

Knock on wood.

[kismet]

6 hours ago, nksarmi said:

I have a hard time comparing Team Arrow to HP kid characters. I mean sure you can do Felicity equals Hermione pretty easily, but Oliver does not fit Harry at all - well with the possible exception of when Harry wants to do things all on his own, but he has far more tendency to rely on his friends than Oliver. For me, Oliver would be more like Lupin - damaged with darkness lurking within, but a genuinely good guy.

I get what your saying... and if the show wasn't continually dropping HP references I probably wouldn't think of them as good analogy material. But neither was Wizard of Oz and still I went there last season after they brought up the reference. Plus, I love HP so it's fun for me.

I do think OQ is like HP in the sense that he seems to be the chosen one every year. I know that HP relied on his team for a lot of stuff. However, most of the time he reached that conclusion that he needed his friends when he forced into a corner. But in a lot of the final or big choices he often chose to go the mission alone. He didn't immediately turn to his friends or open up about everything. I also feel like they share many of the same personality traits - courage, bravery, stubborn, selfless, instinctive, arrogant & compassionate.

Truth - I never really cared for Lupin and his damaged good things fixation. So that is probably why I don't think OQ reminds me of him. I don't think OQ thinks of himself as damaged goods. I think he is recovering from PTSD and some other traumas. I don't really think he thinks of himself as damaged goods. He has just accepted that he has done some dark things in the past and that has shaped who he is or what he can accomplish. I don't think Lupin ever really accepted who he was.

Love the LL as Moaning Myrtle that is just hysterical - here's hoping they don't have a big bathroom in the new lair.

I'm also feeling like TQ might be Hagrid. Good heart, easily mislead, questionable taste in pets (men for TQ). Family to HP, who remembers him when he was younger and still innocent, but recognizes he has changed.

After much mental deliberation the closest comparison I can think of for QL is Neville Longbottom. They both have a tragic backstory. Both are brave and courageous, try to do the right thing but occasionally go about it not in the best way. They stand up for their friends, but more so for justice. 

[BkWurm1]

I only know HP through the movies but it doesn't seem like Felicity exists in the younger generation.  But perhaps Harry's mom since she was so accepting of others and able to see the good in them and also was fiercely protective and has a love that acts as a light?

Edited May 6, 2016 by BkWurm1

[paigow]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7X01_j_oDA

This is Real Genesis...Kirk vs. Khan

[kismet]

3 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

I only know HP through the movies but it doesn't seem like Felicity exists in the younger generation.  But perhaps Harry's mom since she was so accepting of others and able to see the good in them and also was fiercely protective and has a love that acts as a light?

Maybe... on the love part. It is her love after all that helps protect Harry. But it's Harry channeling that love, working with others, his heroic sacrifice and Voldemort's hubris that puts Volde in the place to be destroyed with a final blow actually by Neville Longbottom. I wouldn't be surprised OQ is not the one to deliver the final death blow to DD, with all their Potter inspiration I'm half expecting there to be a twist and someone else is directly responsible for DD's s4 demise/death.

That being said, if there is one comparison between the two worlds that I think has the strongest correlation its Felicity & Hermione. They share intelligence, wit, quirkiness and some initial social awkwardness & flaws. They are both inner badasses with an amazing caring personality. She also was fiercely loyal, protective and loving. In the movies, its not as clear as in the books. But without Hermione, Harry would have been dead numerous times before a book 7 could ever happen. Harry was brave and often did a significant part of the fighting/legwork, but Hermione was the brains that helped him get to the position where he could be victorious. Hermione might not have been Harry's light, but she definitely was one the main reason he was able to be the Hero he was. Plus one of the major differences between Harry & OQ was that Harry really didn't need another person to be his light because JK did not emphasis the inner darkness v. inner light as much as Arrow. She seemed to preach more of a duality or balance. Arrow seems obsessed with OQ needing to find his inner light.

[Hiddenpick]

Darkness and light are themes that's been the heart of the show since it's inception. It has also been an elemental struggle for Oliver Queen after his time on Lian Lu. Each year and seemingly ever episode there has been a point where he has had to choose which path to follow. Season one was clear cut---nothing but darkness. Since season two however there has been a conscious effort by Oliver to choose the better option---a choice he made all by himself. His motivation for that option becomes relevant only as a reminder that that light----- that elusive light he talks about and seeks. The one where he credits it's existence to this person and that person, was conceptualized by him. No one talked him into changing his ways or thought process, he chose the option. What has changed since then is he has had the good fortune to have friends and family who, as he abides by this balance with council when asked and support when necessary. Yeah, there's some lecturing too, but that goes with the territory when one opens themselves for accountableness.

I have struggled with the constancy of Oliver's brooding and has been annoyed with his quickness to take blame for the world's problem. This molehill has become a mountain as the seasons have past. My hope was that with the introduction of the Green Arrow that somehow the 'conversation' would be different. That this self flagellation would let up or channeled differently. That recognizing all the good that he did would not be glossed over or tossed aside and should (by now) have outweighed the bad. That this perceived need to be lifted up or cheered on or encouraged could---could be interpreted as this weak almost pathetic person lacking self confidence constantly in need of validation. But what I have too often appreciated is that it's kinda the same old song, with a different beat.  Yes, Felicity, Laurel, Diggie etc has been his cheering squad (at times) and deserve credit--they do; but no I don't believe that he couldn't find the light --his own easily conjured internal-self-sustaining, inner-directed light by his own damn self. These same 'light bearers', have also told him he can't love and that he would always revert to that guy---the one that keeps deep dark secrets. I'm not sure if the thought is that his journey would be less dramatic if he's seen as a man that exudes confidence framed in a way to portray human frailties. Owning who he is and believing in himself isn't arrogance, it's confidence.

Having said all o'dat, I have liked the emotional beats this season had to offer starting with Diggie and Andy's arc. But I have struggled to appreciate the magic-centric plot. I have complained that having magic doesn't make Damien a worthy and particularly titillating villain (though I absolutely love Neal's portrayal of this character). His solution to a problem is magic, which limits the protagonists capability to defend and protect. There is no thought process, no strategizing.  His power is based on fallacy, when removed renders him useless.
I'm not sure I can explain my aversion to Damien's choice of 'weapon', but it makes the show less about 'hero's'--these folks who wears masks and jump off buildings at night trying to deal with bad guys on a playing field where their brains work to outwit and capture and more magic carpet ride.

The resolution to Andy and Diggie's arc was very satisfying. I wanted to be wrong about Andy for Diggie's sake, but given all he had done after Diggie placed his and his family's trust in this man's hand I was begging Dig to shoot. Diggie is a broken man, having just shot the brother he believed in, his nephew's father, his daughter's uncle; but Andy's glee in taunting him almost seemed as if he wanted him to shoot.

Meanwhile having heard from Constantine (using his Galaxy 8 no doubt) and getting some advice about how to counteract magic, Oliver goes to the Hub. Of course this was a perfect opportunity for Felicity to tag along for a weekend getaway, because you know, that's what dis-engaged people do. The tattoo Constantine gave Oliver wards off magic apparently, so why didn't it before?
I think Oliver should just stop wearing the Green Arrow suit when he goes to fight Darhk and his peeps..seems silly. I mean Damien knows who he is, and it would save so much time. Seems Oliver was able to conjure up the 'light' by hearing the voices of Felicity and friends, during his encounter with the Darhk one. I don't absolutely mind that Felicity is the anchor that Oliver needs--everyone needs an anchor. I do mind when that anchor moves the line of acceptable behavior up and then moves it back. The reason for their breakup was bogus, specifically Felicity's dire announcement that he will always revert to the guy on Lian Lu and their relationship would never work because of it. I mention this because suddenly, she mentions that no matter what people can/do change. Oy. Seeds for a reunion? I know, I know...

Thea is under the dome with clueless Alex, in Genesis. This is Damien's new jack-ed up city, where  people who have taken the yellow pill will enter the matrix two by two, and peace will guide the planet and love will rule. This..this is Damien's plan, to annihilate Star city? the earth? But why?? Seems this was part of Malcolm's plan and Slade's and Ra's Al Ghul's for different reasons of course. What is it about Star City that makes people want to destroy it?

[bijoux]

6 hours ago, kismet said:

I wouldn't be surprised OQ is not the one to deliver the final death blow to DD, with all their Potter inspiration I'm half expecting there to be a twist and someone else is directly responsible for DD's s4 demise/death. 

I will quite frankly be shocked if anyone but Oliver beats Darhk. I don't think he'll necessarily kill him, but possibly drain him of his powers some way and thereby neutralize him. However, it's always been Oliver who has the final fight with the big bad, two of whom he was willing to kill, one whom he outwitted. As he's at the center, I expect the same this year. I wouldn't be against it being someone else, though. Who knows, maybe Ruve knocks off Darhk in the end. It's been implied (even if not all that successfully executed) that she's a Lady Macbeth figure.

Speaking of Darhk, I was thinking how he was actually doing Team Arrow a solid by getting rid of his accomplices. Saves them the tedious clean up once they inevitably beat him.

[Guest]

You know, we still haven't learned why Damien promised Ruve a new beginning. I'd like to know the motivation behind nuking the city/world and why it's important to Ruve too. They dropped the ball there. Not surprising though.

[TwistedandBored]

20 hours ago, wonderwall said:

All the callbacks just showed me that the writers are going back to basics, aka the things that made this show popular in the first place and I welcome it. 

If there's any episode that requires these sort of callbacks, it's definitely an episode after which the writers got rid of the most useless character on the show

 

All the callbacks reaffirmed is that Felicity's weapon of a choice besides a computer is a van. Seriously, she just loves hitting bad guys with her van. 

[Actionmage]

Quote

What is it about Star City that makes people want to destroy it?

The ley lines? "Something in the water/air" could be attributed to the mystic. Not that there has to only be mystic menaces from here out because we have had pretty daunting non-mystical foes before the knowledge of the ley lines.

[SmallScreenDiva]

4 hours ago, TwistedandBored said:

 

All the callbacks reaffirmed is that Felicity's weapon of a choice besides a computer is a van. Seriously, she just loves hitting bad guys with her van. 

I really enjoy how the writers have made sure to give Felicity believable offensive skills, such as hitting bad guys with a van. Or finding something heavy like a 4-by-4 to hit hood copycats and Ghosts. I still want her to be trained in self-defense, preferably by Oliver but I'll take a session with Diggle as well. I mean, it's not like that lair of theirs is terribly secure. 

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

Arrow Turns It Up

While Oliver tries to get some magical training, Diggle is getting kind of sick of his mouthy, evil brother.

[Menrva]

17 hours ago, paigow said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7X01_j_oDA

This is Real Genesis...Kirk vs. Khan

Yes! That's all I could think of every time someone said Genesis. I bet Ricardo Montalban could take one Darkh and win. Khaaaaaannnn!!!!

[Happy Harpy]

After sitting out the last one because Laurel-centric (for the last time EVAH!) I watched this one. And I have the feeling I watched two shows.

In the first one, there was everything I love about Arrow so yep I loooooved it. Oliver, Felicity and Diggle were themselves and they were perfection. I do want for Oliver/Felicity to get back together but I feel the way I did before they were officially a couple: As long as there is no other LI and I can enjoy their interactions, as long as they're (with Diggle, and Donna/Thea respectively) the most important person in each other's lives, as long as I can watch them working as a great oh so great team, I'll still enjoy their scenes so I'll still enjoy the show. Loved the callbacks to previous seasons, casino, fern (obvious fanservice?whatever, I squeed) and loved the reference to Donna. I've often felt that Felicity was written OOC in order to allow unnecessary romantic drama to happen so it was wonderful to see her as Oliver's rock and, for me, completely in character. Don't get me started on the Diggles. So much love here. Husband Diggle, Daddy Diggle, and oh so freaking badass Diggle had me cheer and then my heart broke because yes, no one should have to kill their brother. My only complaint is that I'd like more O/D/F together but that's actually a huge positive. I complain because I want more of what I saw, not because I can't stand what's on my screen.

Did we basically trade Laurel for Lyla, at least screentime-wise? Then we definitely traded up imo. Just to be clear, I don't want her as part of Team Arrow but for me she just fits the narrative and has an organic place on the show.

In the second one, there was a story that I can't get into and two glaring recurring issues imo. NM is great, and I did like Fortuna very much but magic doesn't work for me here and I don't think it ever will. I've completely lost interest in the overall ark this season, then, and  I do feel indeed that it's a rehash of the Undertaking only on a larger scale. I just want it to be over and I'm waiting for S5 at this point, while hoping for a stroke on genius from the writers' part that will make me care. If not for OTA making a comeback, I think I wouldn't even watch.  And I do love JB but at this point they're keeping the character because of the actor; unless the writers get a lightbulb moment I do think that Malcolm has run his course.

Just, I don't want him dead, this is the first recurring issue that I have. Malcolm deserves to die imo, but enough with family members dying. That's why I couldn't be happy about Andy getting his just desserts in spite of the emotional weight it will have on Diggle, allowing character development and DR acting his ass out of it. If the family members are evil have them locked away for ever but STOP. Enough with death as a plot device in general (although Arrow isn't the only offender).

The second recurring issue is Thea's storyline. Why is she yet again stuck with the suckage (Suburbian Holidays? Jeez!) and the character who sucks? I don't know if she was literally kicked off the central narrative in order to make place for TA or if it was a Chekov change of location, but "oh btw I need a holiday" "OK good idea", seriously? Seriously? I love Thea, I always did even when she was a little brat and she proved imo that she has her place on the show. Nevertheless, I think that she should have her own people,  Roy to start with since imo he and Thea have always made each other better. I do think she fits on TA, but I'm beginning to doubt that it's the best option for her character. WH is so talented, Thea has potential imo but the character needs to do her own thing, maybe take over the role I thought Sara should have had, meaning someone with her own team and occasional ally of Team Arrow. Maybe she and Oliver can have a mature conflict about how to deal with the enemy, and she can take her independence.

So in a nutshell, I loved it but I couldn't be enthusiastic, because those great characters I adore, in spite of a good plot-of-the-week, are prisoners of a season ark not worthy of them so far imo. But if the show delivers on the OTA front, I'll be a happy camper anyway.

Edited May 7, 2016 by Happy Harpy

[TrueMyth]

6 hours ago, Angel12d said:

You know, we still haven't learned why Damien promised Ruve a new beginning. I'd like to know the motivation behind nuking the city/world and why it's important to Ruve too. They dropped the ball there. Not surprising though.

I'd really like to know this, too.  Will someone please get through to the writers about the need to craft a better second act to their seasons?!  Suggestion for next season: write as if episode 18 is the END of your season and take out the presumptive big bad then... and then look for the character who's been pulling the strings and have that be the final big bad.  I mean, they almost did that with Dahrk by putting him in prison.  The problem is, he really was the biggest, baddest bad they had.

But yes, I'd like to know a little more about his motivations for working with HIVE.  I mean, obviously he thinks he is purging the world of ... something.  Is it a racial thing?  Capitalism?  What is it that he feels must be cleared away?  Can it POSSIBLY tie to the supposed grand purpose of the League of Assassins?  Because I'd love to have that clarified slightly.

Ruve seems to be in it to rule in some sense.  That is a fair purpose, but I'd like to know why he thinks she is worthy.  What bond to they have that makes them work together?  It would be rather cool to have a Ruve/Damian scene that mirrors a Felicity/Oliver scene.  DD can totally tell Ruve that she brings out the darkness in him!

Also, do we have any ideas what the gas chamber experiments were about?  Are they somehow connected to the survival of the dome?  Was it some elaborate way to kill people to power Dahrk's magic?  Is it a fail-safe in case they couldn't get Rubicon or Rubicon is stopped; Will they then trigger poison gas to kill off people?

I enjoyed this episode very much.  I'm still looking for some grand demonstration of trust from Oliver towards Felicity to bring their relationship back to equal footing before they get together, but I love their synergy in the field when they are at peace with each other on some level.  I hope to see Ersin Fortuna back, especially if we can't have Constantine.  She doesn't have to teach anyone magic.  She can just play cards with Felicity and make fun comments and try to get more lace into the girls' wardrobes.

[BkWurm1]

Quote

Also, do we have any ideas what the gas chamber experiments were about?  Are they somehow connected to the survival of the dome?  Was it some elaborate way to kill people to power Dahrk's magic?  Is it a fail-safe in case they couldn't get Rubicon or Rubicon is stopped; Will they then trigger poison gas to kill off people?

The show spent almost no time on this, but we found out at the end of 4-9 that the gas chambers were not actually there to kill people but to use volunteers to keep testing combinations of the algae and other gases looking for a way to create the atmosphere needed for their underground world.  People dying was just a by product. There were pleased that the guy Oliver saw die lasted as long as he did.

 When DD is showing off his corn fields he was able to give his associates the good news that their last test run had been successful.  As far as I could tell, the last test run was actually Diggle, Felicity and Thea and note while they were all freaking and coughing, they were in there a lot longer than the guy before and suffered no ill effects.  I think while DD knew they all could have died, they all just as easily could have been perfectly safe. 

[TrueMyth]

Really?  Because I assumed that the corn itself was evidence of the breathable atmosphere (well, and the whole them not dying thing).  Like I thought the corn was part of the CO2 scrubbing system.  I really had no idea why they needed the algae, but I guess that will also help produce oxygen.  The corn was obviously quite mature though, so that had been growing for much longer than the gas chamber tests.

Your answer does make sense though (I mean, as much as any of the deeper plot this season), so you are no doubt correct.

[BkWurm1]

Something I've been mulling over for a while.  After Oliver says Felicity said it herself, that he'd always revert to the man he'd become on the island, she explains she said it when she was hurt and had just gone through one of the most painful experiences in her life.  I don't think she was actually in that moment referring to the break up.  Yeah, that was incredibly painful but that WEDDING was so incredibly cruel and hurtful and was the tipping point for Felicity leaving the whole team behind.

I think playacting what was supposed to be such a joyous day and hearing Oliver say all the things she'd dreamed he'd say and feeling how much SHE still loved him while knowing she couldn't be with him (because agree or disagree with her choice, she couldn't stay engaged with Oliver after what he did) was the experience that drove her to that place of saying something she didn't really mean. 

I don't think a lot of viewers got how devastating and hurtful Oliver and the team putting her through that must have been.  I like what at least I think was a call back to it being just that.  

[BkWurm1]

5 minutes ago, TrueMyth said:

Really?  Because I assumed that the corn itself was evidence of the breathable atmosphere (well, and the whole them not dying thing).  Like I thought the corn was part of the CO2 scrubbing system.  I really had no idea why they needed the algae, but I guess that will also help produce oxygen.  The corn was obviously quite mature though, so that had been growing for much longer than the gas chamber tests.

Your answer does make sense though (I mean, as much as any of the deeper plot this season), so you are no doubt correct.

Yeah, I can't explain the corn at all, lol, but let me quote that scene.

DD:Beautiful, isn't it? And I don't even like corn. Go ahead, breathe. Drink it in. Tell me what it reminds you of.

Associate:  Seems so real.

DD:  Ahh, I liken it to the air on Everest. Little thin, maybe, but just enough to keep things interesting.

Associate: I thought the tests had failed.

DD:   Not the last one. Thanks to the algae we engineered from Star City Bay, the air down here is now perfectly breathable. We are right on schedule. Phase 4 begins now.

 

[ComicFan777]

For an underground bomb shelter, you would need a sustainable nuclear, biological, and chemical filtration system for the air which I think the algae in combination with whatever other things they combined is supposed to now successfully do - corn wouldn't be a sufficient filtration system for this.  I think growing corn has other purposes - to test whether their combination of artificial light and algae-filtered air is good enough to grow food crops as well as provide additional oxygen to the breathable air.

Edited May 7, 2016 by ComicFan777

[spartan]

this episode was poor. Katie is always credited in second

[looptab]

I'm guessing she will be credited until the end of the season.

[TrueMyth]

5 hours ago, ComicFan777 said:

For an underground bomb shelter, you would need a sustainable nuclear, biological, and chemical filtration system for the air which I think the algae in combination with whatever other things they combined is supposed to now successfully do - corn wouldn't be a sufficient filtration system for this.  I think growing corn has other purposes - to test whether their combination of artificial light and algae-filtered air is good enough to grow food crops as well as provide additional oxygen to the breathable air.

But the corn in 4x09 was mature and looked like a big operation.  If they had just achieved breathable balance, it shouldn't have looked so lush.  Unless they somehow started with high CO2, which I'm not sure how they would.

[ComicFan777]

Before nuclear fallout, underground air would have low oxygen content, high concentration of carbon dioxide, toxic gases emitted by the rocks underground, as well as any chemical particulate matter that has seeped into the ground from above.  If you also have a suitable artificial light source that acts similar enough to sunlight as well as a water source, then it may be possible to grow corn if photosynthesis can still occur.  Corn can only convert carbon dioxide and water to oxygen, and may filter a few pollutants out of the soil and air in the process (not very quickly though).    

However, after nuclear fallout, you would need to worry about radioactive particulates that would be be absorbed in plants and eaten by people - you would have radioactive crops that people would eat.  It would be good for the filtration to also remove bacteria/viruses that thrive in a lower oxygen environment.  At the very least, you would need a filtration system that can pull any radioactive particulates from the air quickly before it enters the dome - I think that is what the algae in combination with other components is for.  If radioactive particulates reach breathable air inside the dome, then everyone would be breathing in radioactive particles and it can also contaminate any surface, any water source, soil, and crops.  Besides filtration, algae grows very quickly and currently makes the majority (50-80%) of the oxygen on Earth - it would also contribute a higher oxygen content to the air in the dome.

Edited May 7, 2016 by ComicFan777

[Guest]

I watched this episode again last night (first episode re-watch in a long time) and I have to say, just by how Felicity was written, how she was supportive and basically back to normal Felicity, it's even more obvious she was removed from the team so Laurel could be the one to give Oliver his little pep talks, all the while giving them a few final O/L scenes. Such a shame they had to do that. Glad that won't have to happen again. Fingers crossed.

Another thing I thought of...the shaman mentioned that Lian Yu was a nexus. So does that mean that they've left Slade (and that other dude) imprisoned on a nexus which is like the source of all power or something? (I really don't even know what a nexus is tbh LOL).

Edited May 7, 2016 by Guest

[Lady Calypso]

12 hours ago, Happy Harpy said:

In the second one, there was a story that I can't get into and two glaring recurring issues imo. NM is great, and I did like Fortuna very much but magic doesn't work for me here and I don't think it ever will. I've completely lost interest in the overall ark this season, then, and  I do feel indeed that it's a rehash of the Undertaking only on a larger scale. I just want it to be over and I'm waiting for S5 at this point, while hoping for a stroke on genius from the writers' part that will make me care. If not for OTA making a comeback, I think I wouldn't even watch.  And I do love JB but at this point they're keeping the character because of the actor; unless the writers get a lightbulb moment I do think that Malcolm has run his course.

Just, I don't want him dead, this is the first recurring issue that I have. Malcolm deserves to die imo, but enough with family members dying. That's why I couldn't be happy about Andy getting his just desserts in spite of the emotional weight it will have on Diggle, allowing character development and DR acting his ass out of it. If the family members are evil have them locked away for ever but STOP. Enough with death as a plot device in general (although Arrow isn't the only offender).

I agree about the magic aspect, absolutely. I don't really enjoy it on Arrow because for me, it doesn't fit with the overall tone of the show. I enjoy the show for what it is, with vigilantes and villains who don't necessarily have powers. Yes, the Slade thing comes into contradiction here, but it felt more natural in season 2. Here? The magic aspect just feels out of place, especially when introducing it into the flashbacks as Oliver's past. I just don't like the introduction of magic. I even like NM and Damien Darhk. I just wish it wasn't magic related. 

As for your second point, I actually think in some cases, like with Andy, death is necessary. Diggle gave his brother several chances to be good, and he failed each of them. He locked Andy up for three months and he didn't change. He tried to kill Diggle, he tried to kill his family and friends. He's in cahoots with Damien, and he played an active role in killing Laurel. He's taunted and threatened his brother, stating that he'll never stop coming after Diggle, Lyla and Sara. Even if Diggle locked his brother up forever, he'd still be threatening to kill and if Andy got out for whatever reason, he'd come after Lyla and Sara first. So as much as I do agree that killing characters shouldn't be the go-to response for drama, to get rid of a character, or anything similar, it is absolutely justified for me in Andy's case. He gave his brother no choice in putting him down, especially with the assumption that he would never kill Andy, even for his family. Well, he just proved him wrong and it worked. But yeah, still waiting for Malcolm to die at some point. I won't be upset if it isn't this season, but Malcolm just needs to go and I have a feeling he'd just keep coming back if they kept him alive. 

12 hours ago, Happy Harpy said:

The second recurring issue is Thea's storyline. Why is she yet again stuck with the suckage (Suburbian Holidays? Jeez!) and the character who sucks? I don't know if she was literally kicked off the central narrative in order to make place for TA or if it was a Chekov change of location, but "oh btw I need a holiday" "OK good idea", seriously? Seriously? I love Thea, I always did even when she was a little brat and she proved imo that she has her place on the show. Nevertheless, I think that she should have her own people,  Roy to start with since imo he and Thea have always made each other better. I do think she fits on TA, but I'm beginning to doubt that it's the best option for her character. WH is so talented, Thea has potential imo but the character needs to do her own thing, maybe take over the role I thought Sara should have had, meaning someone with her own team and occasional ally of Team Arrow. Maybe she and Oliver can have a mature conflict about how to deal with the enemy, and she can take her independence.

Yeah, ever since Roy left, Thea's been bugging me. I loved her in season 1, liked her in season 2, tolerated her in season 3 mostly whenever she was with Roy, and now think that she doesn't have a place anymore. She's just another mask at this point, and even leading up to her becoming a vigilante, they've failed to give me a reason to care. It's sad that Roy gave her more of a purpose for me. They worked as a couple and it made Thea a better character. Without Roy and without Moira, Thea is just a floater, there to give Oliver a reason to stay good and I know they can't kill her off, because Oliver would be devastated if she died. I don't want her to die either, but I think she needs a new direction, away from Team Arrow for now...and away from her dull boyfriend Alex. I don't think it helps that she is supposed to be younger in her early twenties, so the age gap between her and now every other character is apparent. It feels like they have to have her more emotionally mature in order to fit into the show. At least with Roy, she had someone her own age to hang out with. Now it feels like she has no friends and her only purpose is to be another mask. It was apparent as well in this episode, when she only had three scenes and she was stuck in Under the StarDome. And that was just to get her into any kind of plot. 

[ComicFan777]

I think it's really scary to think that Andy stayed with them for months and probably babysat Sara from time to time, and then see what Andy was capable of and how he continued to threaten Diggle's family even in his last breath.  I feel so bad for John - the struggle he must have felt seeing that the little brother he always took care of become so hateful and evil.   

[Guest]

I agree with others here. I don't like the magic aspect of the season either. I blame The Flash for this tbh. LOL. No seriously. This show could remain pretty grounded but once you introduce a man who can run really fast into the universe, it kind of opens the gateway to all of the other impossible things. 

Strangely, the mirakuru stuff never felt ridiculous to me for some reason? I have no idea why.

As for Andy, I think John did the right thing in the end. It's sad that it had to be him but he gave him enough second chances. It is scary though. He was around Sara and in their home and could have done anything at any time. And weirdly, the yellow pills were out of his system so he was just really indoctrinated. When he was reciting all of HIVE's nonsense about Genesis, he sounded like a real nut bar, like he was part of a cult.

But I like that not everyone can be redeemed on this show. I think they need to show that sometimes. 

Edited May 7, 2016 by Guest

[apinknightmare]

7 hours ago, Angel12d said:

Another thing I thought of...the shaman mentioned that Lian Yu was a nexus. So does that mean that they've left Slade (and that other dude) imprisoned on a nexus which is like the source of all power or something? (I really don't even know what a nexus is tbh LOL).

She said that Lian Yu had a nexus chamber, which I'm guessing is the place that Oliver remembers being - according to her, it takes you to another plane of existence. So, not the whole island, just a particular place, and maybe that person would have to know what they were doing (like the shaman) in order to use it? IDK. Maybe they explained this in the flashbacks when I wasn't paying attention, haha. 

[Guest]

31 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

She said that Lian Yu had a nexus chamber, which I'm guessing is the place that Oliver remembers being - according to her, it takes you to another plane of existence. So, not the whole island, just a particular place, and maybe that person would have to know what they were doing (like the shaman) in order to use it? IDK. Maybe they explained this in the flashbacks when I wasn't paying attention, haha. 

Haha, I wasn't paying attention when she said this then. Twice. LOL.

[kismet]

Anytime someone said Nexus... I thought of "Nexxus" hair products and got confused as to why hair products were coming into play... I don't think it was what they meant :)

[bijoux]

I don't think they ever actually got into what the chamber was, but @apinknightmare's explanation aligns with the meaning of nexus.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/nexus

[FishyJoe]

For a second there, I was expecting to see butterflies Under the Dome...

[ComicFan777]

On a totally random side note, my husband mentioned that in dc comics there is the multiversal nexus which is like pocket dimension between earth 1 and earth 2 where Monitors watch both earths and don't like anomalies (in a way, similar to the timelords in LoT).  The shaman kinda reminded me of the Monitors in a way, since she can access a nexus and is aware of everything going on, but doesn't interfere.  He also mentioned that another example of a different plane of existence that many people have seen is the Phantom Zone in the superman series.

Edited May 9, 2016 by ComicFan777

[Mellowyellow]

Heeeeee omg so hilarious that scene where Oliver is remembering all the darkness in his life.  It's like stab, stab, shot, stab, nice middle aged lady turns into a demon, shot and FELICITY DUMPS HIS ASS!!!!!!!

As someone who has thrown numerous tantrums about how he treated Felicity, I'm delighted that he's so broken about Felicity dumping him but didn't whoever edit that montage think of how silly it looked!!!!!!!!!

[bijoux]

I think that was 100% intentional. And while I also giggled, it can't be denied that Felicity is always shown as having the biggest impact on him at crucial times. She was his last thought when he was dying and losing her in the break up ranked right up there with his nearest and dearest dying. What I, and other posters, found even funnier is that they didn't include losing the kid. 

[TimetravellingBW]

I also found it hilarious that Felicity dumping him ranked so high in Oliver-I-Spent-Five-Years-In-Hell Queen's memories. Especially as they lingered for so long on the shot of her putting the ring down. It was a pretty fast montage of his loved ones dying then....slow mo of Felicity walking out. And it definitely reminded me of Oliver's dying flashbacks in the mid-S3 finale, with his parents, Thea and Felicity - the woman he had so far only been on one date with. (Though I admit I wished Diggle had been present then). Oliver being so far gone for Felicity will never not be amusing. 

[tv echo]

420 (Genesis) – Oliver Queen’s voiceover intro:
Oliver (voiceover): "My name is Oliver Queen. After five years in hell, I returned home with only one goal - to save my city, but my old approach wasn't enough. I had to become someone else. I had to become something else. I had to become the Green Arrow."

420 (Genesis) – Oliver informs the team that he plans to go to Hub City to see a Constantine ally about how to defend against Darhk's magic:
Felicity (showing dead man on computer screen): "Milo Armitage. S.C.P.D. found him in an alley outside Ellendale, and across town... Phaedra Nixon."
Thea: "Okay. So what am I missing?"
Oliver: "They were both H.I.V.E."
Felicity: "You probably don't recognize Phaedra and Milo now that they're dead, or maybe you were too busy running for your life, but -"
Thea: "They were with Darhk when he held us hostage."
Diggle: "And now they're dead."
Thea: "What, so you think crazy-pants Lonnie Machin's back in town?"
Oliver: "No. His grudge is against Darhk, not H.I.V.E."
Diggle: "You think Darhk is cleaning house?"
Oliver: "Well, H.I.V.E. didn't lift a finger to break him out of Iron Heights. That was all Andy and Merlyn."
Diggle: "Okay. Well, if Darhk is settling scores, then now might be the time to hit him." 
Oliver: "We have seen how powerful he is. I can't risk losing anyone else." 
Diggle: "We can't just sit on our hands, Oliver."
Oliver: "We're not just sitting on our hands, but before we do anything, we need to know that we can counteract his magic." 
Thea: "Well, is that even possible?"
Oliver: "I think it might be. I was finally able to get in touch with Constantine. He put me on to someone who he thinks may be able to teach me how to defend against Darhk's magic."
Thea: "Okay. Well, I'm not just saying this because I love Harry Potter, but why are we not all taking those lessons?"
Oliver: "Well, it is easier said than done and apparently quite dangerous. So I have to go to Hub City for a day or two."
Thea: "Okay. In that case, can I take the weekend with Alex? Kind of wants to go away, clear our heads." 
Oliver: "That sounds like a good idea. I think that - actually, I think everyone should take a little time. Lay low but stay available, and we will deal with Darhk when I get back."

420 (Genesis) – Felicity finds out that Oliver has been living in the Arrow Bunker and tells him that she is going with him to Hub City:
Felicity: "You've been living down here."
Oliver: "Ahem. It seemed to make the most sense."
Felicity: "Where's all your stuff?"
Oliver: "It's in storage. You know me. I don't need much."
Felicity: "Maybe, like, a plant, like a... fern or something. They thrive in places like this."
Oliver: "How could I forget? (Zips bag closed) Come to see me off?"
Felicity: "You were pretty stingy on the details about this 'magic tutor' Constantine referred you to."
Oliver: "It is sort of my M.O."
Felicity: "Don't talk to me like I'm other people. What has you so worried?"
Oliver: "Darhk's idol, the type of magic that he's using - I've seen it take good people, and turn them dark, soulless, almost inhuman."
Felicity: "And you're afraid that's gonna happen to you?"
Oliver: "There's an argument to be made that I'm already there."
Felicity: "That's not funny."
Oliver: "I am not joking. There is no length that I will not go to to avenge Laurel, to stop Darhk from hurting anyone ever again - and I honestly don't know where that path will lead."
Felicity: "I'm coming with you."
Oliver: "Felicity -"
Felicity: "Just because we're not together doesn't mean you have to do this alone. And I've already chartered the company jet.  Mr. Dennis is furious, and I booked us a room - rooms... with points."
Oliver: "Should I even try and talk you out of this?"
Felicity: "No. You met my mother. Same DNA."

420 (Genesis) – In formal wear, Oliver and Felicity enter Hub City's premier underground casino and meet Esrin Fortuna:
Felicity: "So what exactly are we looking for?"
Oliver: "High roller room."
Felicity: "When you said that you'd found someone to teach you magic, I was thinking, like, a mountaintop or a hidden temple, not Hub City's premier underground casino."
Oliver: "Well, with Constantine, I have learned to expect the unexpected. (To maitre d) I'm betting on Fortuna. (They enter the casino) Now he was a little bit vague with the specifics. He just said (using British accent) 'Pitch game, first base, mate. See if you're worthy.'" 
Felicity: "Wow. Okay. Pitch game, Blackjack. Uh, dealer using up to two decks. (Goes to sit down at blackjack table) First base, first seat on the dealer's left. I think we're in the right place."
Oliver: "I'm not so sure that finding this guy depends on gambling."
Felicity: "It's not gambling when I play."
*  *  *
Oliver: "I forgot how good you were at this."
Felicity: "Ah, like riding a bike. (To lady sitting at the same table) Rough beat."
Fortuna: "Indeed. I should probably head home soon before they take my shoes."
Felicity (pushing a pile of her chips over to her): "Oh. Well, you never know when your luck's gonna change. Trust me."
Fortuna: "That's so kind. Muchas gracias."
Felicity: "De nada. Ah, boom! Come to mama!  (Oliver shakes his head, smiling) Ahem. I mean - what?"
Oliver: "I'm starting to think that this guy's gonna be a no-show."
Fortuna: "It's because he's not a guy, amor. Esrin Fortuna. Tell John Constantine he still owes me money."

420 (Genesis) – Esrin Fortuna tells Oliver how he can repel Darhk's magic and tests him, but Oliver fails the test:
Felicity: "Okay. So since Oliver doesn't seem to want to ask it, um -"
Fortuna: "Why is an immortal shaman playing blackjack in Hub City's premier underground casino?"
Felicity: "Excuse me? Immort - immortal?"
Fortuna: "You see any wrinkles on my face?"
Felicity: "And shaman."
Fortuna: "A shaman is someone who has influence in the world of good and evil spirits. Blackjack is just a hobby. This way."
Oliver: "Planning on teaching me magic in the back room of a casino?"
Fortuna: "You want to learn the dark arts, Mr. Queen. We cannot do that here."
(She opens a door, and they enter what looks like an underground cave with a white idol sitting on a pedestal.)
Felicity: "Whoa! This is by far the coolest high roller room I have ever seen."
Fortuna: "We've left the casino behind, amor, and that plane of existence."
Oliver: "I've been in a chamber like this before. On an island named Lian Yu."
Fortuna: "Yes. Lian Yu is a place of nexus - just like your home."
Felicity: "Star City?"
Fortuna: "Hmm. There's a nexus chamber there as well. Wait. You didn't think it was a coincidence that Damien Darhk chose that city?"
Oliver: "You know Darhk?"
Fortuna: "I wouldn't be much of a shaman if I didn't. Special brand of nasty loco that one is."
Felicity: "Mmm. So if you know Darhk, why haven't you tried to end him?"
Fortuna: "That's not the way of things. We immortals tend to stay out of the affairs of men."
Felicity: "Unless someone owes you money."
Fortuna (indicating idol): "Recognize this handsome gent?"
Oliver (sighing): "Darhk has a similar idol."
Felicity: "It gives him his power?"
Fortuna: "Uh-uh. It only channels it. Darhk's power comes from -"
Oliver: "Death. The more people he kills, the more powerful he becomes."
Fortuna: "Not just a pretty face, this guy."
Felicity: "Yeah. Except Oliver's not gonna go kill a bunch of people just to be on the same level playing field as Darhk."
Fortuna: "All things have their opposite. Darhk draws his power from fear and death. Its opposite is light and hope, La Luz Del Alma, Light of the Soul. If you can channel La Luz Del Alma, you will be able to repel Darhk's magic."
Oliver: "Then that is what I'm here to learn."
Fortuna: "I wish it were just that easy. If the darkness inside you outweighs the light, instead of repelling Darhk's magic, you will end up fueling it. You will only make him more powerful." 
*  *  *
Fortuna: "I'll hit you with a low dose of Darhk's magic. And then we'll take it up from there."
Oliver: "Don't I need an idol or a totem?"
Fortuna: "The tattoo Constantine gave you does many things. Are you ready?"
Oliver: "Yeah."
Felicity: "I'm- I'm sorry. I - I just thought that these magic lessons would have, you know, more... lessons."
Fortuna: "Magic is a manipulation of primordial energies, primordial as in prelinguistic. You'll probably want to take a few steps back, amor."
(Felicity looks at Oliver, he nods, and she steps back.)
Fortuna: "Hmm? Two sides of you - darkness, light. Focus on the light. (She shoots black smoke at him, Oliver's eyes turn yellow and he repels the smoke) Good, but that might be, as they call, beginner's luck, so let's kick it up a notch or two, hmm?" 
(Fortuna shoots a larger plume of black smoke at him.)
Fortuna (voiceover): "The darkness and light are within you. In truth, you are only fighting yourself. The friends you've failed, the people you've killed, they have no place in this. Don't give in. Cast aside your doubt, resist your darkness."
(Oliver flashes back to fighting Malcolm, Deathstroke and Darhk, to seeing the deaths of Tommy, Moira, himself, Robert and Laurel, to seeing Taiana's eyes flash yellow, and to Felicity giving him back the ring.)
Felicity: "What happened?"
Fortuna: "He's not ready."
Oliver: "I'll get it, I'll get it. Now let's go again."
Fortuna: "I could give you an infinite number of tries. It wouldn't change a thing."
Oliver: "What? No. I can do this."
Fortuna: "I told you. If the darkness within you is greater than the light, you will only make your enemy stronger. You've seen what's inside of you, yeah? Tell me, what could I possibly teach you that would change what you saw?"
Felicity: "Wait. So that's it? It's over?"
Fortuna: "There's nothing I can do for him."

420 (Genesis) – Felicity takes back what she said to Oliver before and tells him that they can all change:
Felicity: "We'll find someone else to teach you magic - someone with more patience and less smelly incense."
Oliver: "She was right, you know? It's not about the magic. It's about me."
Felicity: "If she didn't see anything worthy inside you, she never would have dealt with us."
Oliver: "She didn't deal with us. She dealt with you. She didn't reveal herself until you offered her your chips, and that has always been the way with us, Felicity. You are the one who brings the light. You know, I told you that I've seen magic that's turned good people dark, but all Fortuna did was show me who I really am."
Felicity: "Don't do this. Every time you face a setback, you throw yourself a pity party."
Oliver: "It's not a pity party. It's acceptance. You said it yourself. No matter what I do, I'm always gonna revert back to the person I became on the island."
Felicity: "Yeah. When I said that, I was hurt. I was going through one of the most painful experiences of my life. No, Oliver, you are not perfect. None of us are. The good news is that, all of us can change."

420 (Genesis) – Felicity saves Diggle and Baby Sara by ramming the bad guys with the van:
(Diggle, with Baby Sara in a backpack, is riding a motorcycle and being pursued by Andy and other Darhk goons. He is cornered and stops. Felicity driving the van comes out of nowhere and rams into Darhk's goons.) 
Felicity: "Oh, it's been a while since I've hit anybody with this thing."
Diggle: "I didn't think you got my message."
Felicity: "Sorry we're late. Oliver's on Lyla and Darhk."
Diggle (handing over his daugher): "Baby Sara?"
Felicity: "All right. Yeah."
Diggle: "You got her?"
Felicity: "Yeah, yeah. Okay."
(Andy recovers consciousness and runs off.  Diggle chases after him on his motorcycle, while Felicity gets back into the van with Baby Sara.)

420 (Genesis) – Oliver explains to Felicity how he was able to repel Darhk's magic by thinking of her and his friends: 
Felicity: "Hey."
Oliver: "Hi. Did you get in touch with Thea?"
Felicity: "Not yet. You okay?" 
Oliver: "Earlier with Darhk, it worked. He tried to use his magic on me, and I was able to repel it." 
Felicity: "That's incredible. How'd you do it?" 
Oliver (sighing): "I heard your voice in my head. You were reminding me of all of the good things that I have in my life. I heard Thea.  I heard John... I heard Laurel... Just telling me to keep fighting, to never give up. Just telling me to have hope."

420 (Genesis) – Team Arrow figures out Darhk's master plan to use Rubicon to nuke the world and start over:
Lyla: "Rubicon."
Oliver: "I thought Rubicon was being stored at A.R.G.U.S."
Lyla: "It was... until Shadowspire tried to steal it. After Waller's death, I had it moved for security reasons."
Felicity: "To where? It was under your skin?"
Lyla: "A subdermal implant. Darhk ripped it out."
Oliver: "Lyla, you need to tell us what Rubicon is."
Lyla: "A ballistic launch override protocol designed to prevent any country, even our own, from firing a nuclear missile."
Felicity: "Something tells me Darhk's plans aren't so benign."
Lyla: "With some work and the right expertise, Rubicon could be corrupted. Instead of controlling nukes to prevent them from being launched -"
Diggle: "Oh, my God."
Oliver: "Darhk would control the world's nuclear stockpile."
Felicity: "To what end? I don't mean to apply logic to a bad guy's plot here, but Darhk destroys the world, then what? He'd be ruler of nothing."
Diggle: "Unless he wants to rebuild. Andy told me that Genesis was coming."
Felicity: "I don't think so. Phil Collins said they'd never tour again."
Lyla: "The Old Testament, the Book of Genesis." 
Diggle: "God wanted to give the world a do-over, so he destroyed it."
Oliver: "He destroyed it with a flood. Rubicon is Darhk's flood."
Felicity: "So nuclear annihilation is Darhk's flood. What's he planning on building as his ark?"

Edited February 28, 2020 by tv echo