S02.E03: One Hundred Years

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Amid growing tensions, Cole and Cassie embark on their first time travel mission together, which brings them to New York at the height of World War II to track a dangerous, seductive member of the Twelve who's plotting an assassination.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Clip:

Edited April 26, 2016 by ElectricBoogaloo

[thuganomics85]

So, with this and Continuum, Erik Knudsen is clearly destined to appear in all time-traveling shows that are shot in Canada.  Judging from Tommy's fate though, it looks like he won't be sticking around as long as he did on the other show.

Enjoyed Cole and Cassie's time in the 40s and how they stood out from the rest at times, like Jay Karnes' detective noticing Cole's stubble (I guess he forgot to buy a razor in those two months), and everyone staring at Cassie when she was walking around in her leather jacket and jeans (and not just because Amanda Schull looked great in them.)  It is still taking some time getting use to them being so hostile towards each other.  Not sure why Cassie is blaming Cole for Aaron's death, because I could have sworn he had no choice.  It's been a while, so I don't fully remember what happened, but I remember thinking he betrayed them or something, and it was either going to be them or him.

Aww, Ramse!  Saving Deacon from those time pockets, even after Deacon was pretty much forcing him to dig his own grave.  Strangely forgiving of him.  Or maybe he's just hoping this will earn him some good-will.

So, I'm guessing Scottie Thompson is going to be the new recurring Messenger they deal with, since Tom Noonan's seems to be out of the picture for now.

Sounds like Cole and Cassie's tether has been destroyed, so they're going to be stuck in the 40s for a bit longer.  Not a good thing; especially since I'm guessing Jay Karnes' cop/detective thinks they were the ones who murdered the scientist.

[Triskan]

Seems like Alec Sadler wasnt done with time travel ! ^^

Damn, that season is shaping up to be awesome ! 

[Chaos Theory]

I don't think Cassie is actually Angry at Cole for Aaron's death.  I think it is a convient excuse.  You killed my boyfriend and now you grow a concience?  Plus stuff probably happened in 2044 that we aren't privy to yet.  I think the line by Cole is telling and encompasses everything between them.  I might be paraphrasing; "you don't think I know what I cost you?"

[ElectricBoogaloo]

It's weird to see the obvious role reversal between Cassie and Cole. She is now the one focused on the mission and doing whatever needs to be done, which is why she was annoyed to see Cole so relaxed and enjoying the 1940s. I think one thing that she needs to remember is that Cole comes from a time of scarcity. He has lived most of his life being hungry and cold and fighting for every little scrap he got. Being in the 1940s, even in the midst of WW2, is very pleasant compared to the conditions that he's used to. Even with wartime rationing, there is more food than he's used to having and he gets warm clothes, a comfortable bed, etc. Plus he arrived in 1944 two months before she did so he had time to get acclimated (heh, except for shaving, apparently).

Despite Cassie hardening during her eight months in 2044, it's obvious that her "let's go back in time and kill whoever is necessary to save the world" is not in full effect since she refused to shoot Cole or surrender Tommy to the 12 Monkeys lady (IMDB says her name is Vivian). She talks a good game (and to be honest, I think she would have killed Jennifer in the first episode if Cole hadn't stopped her), but she wasn't about to sacrifice Cole or Tommy in order to save the world.

When Vivian put the Princess Bride life sucking cups on Cole's head, I was afraid that she was going to electroshock him to erase as much of his memory as possible (just imagine Cassie trying to fix everything in her own in 1944). I guess yay that she was just torturing him in order to get Cassie to give up Tommy?

I can see why Ramse thought that Jones would understand his motivation, but I'm glad she pointed out that her efforts to save her daughter would also save billions of lives while Ramse's efforts to save his son's life would come at the cost of billions of people dying. Hee, and I had to laugh when she added that he barely knew his son. I mean, I know parents can love their children no matter what the circumstances but it seemed worth pointing out that Jones was trying to save a child who she actually knew and loved while Ramse was trying to save someone who he'd spent all of, what, a few hours with?

It's also interesting to watch Cassie and Cole struggle with their relationship now. First he introduced her as his wife (and technically he was correct about why - hotels would not let unmarried couples stay in the same room, but you know there was also a little bit of wistfulness/wishful thinking there) and then she later introduced herself as his sister, trying to pull away from even pretending that they were a couple. Even though both situations were just cover stories, she clearly wants to remove the romantic undertones from their relationship and keep it platonic now. I think she was being honest when she told him that she can't trust him right now, but the example she gave (Aaron) was just the most convenient excuse. I don't think she blames Cole for Aaron's death but it's an easy way to make him feel guilty.

Edited May 3, 2016 by ElectricBoogaloo

[mjc570]

ElectricBoogaloo, you made excellent points.  I really liked this episode for a number of reasons you've already noted - Cole liking the 40s, Jones calling Ramse out - I wonder if that induced at least a little guilt, which is why he saved Deacon. 

I think Cassie had a number of reasons for introducing herself as Cole's sister - not just to make it clear that they had no relationship now, but also to allow Cole to continue his useful flirtation with the woman who got them into the event (and perhaps other useful women).

I had to laugh at the repeated references t Tommy as "the boy" - I think he looks way too old, he is at least a young man.  On the other hand, in Continuum, I thought he looked too young to form the relationships he did.  When is Roger Cross going to show up?

My main complaint - not enough Jennifer!

[bethy]

My memory of what happened with Aaron was that there was some question about saving him from the fire, and Cole said that they weren't going to be able to save him, so they ran? I do think that it's a convenient excuse for Cassie to push Cole away. Aaron had tried to save her - but by betraying Cole and the mission to save the world. She was furious about it at the time.

I liked Ramse grinning when Cole was all, "I'm standing right here" when Cassie was telling Jones Cole wouldn't be able to hack it. 

I also liked when Cole walked away from Cassie at the party. I can't remember what she said to him, but I liked that he had finally had enough of her attitude.

I'm actually kind of liking the complication of the tension between Cole and Cassie. I like that she's not apologetic about her relationship with Deacon and, honestly, I'm kind of curious about how that developed exactly.

Jones's "There is a difference between what I'm choosing to do and what I'm unable to prevent" was awesomely cold. 

So, it wasn't Ramse causing the red forest, but the temporal anomalies? I'm glad that he saved Deacon.

[shapeshifter]

18 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Sounds like Cole and Cassie's tether has been destroyed, so they're going to be stuck in the 40s for a bit longer.  Not a good thing; especially since I'm guessing Jay Karnes' cop/detective thinks they were the ones who murdered the scientist.

Oh, but it's also a good thing because 1940s fashion and music. 

[wanderingstar]

I don't know what it is, but I am LOVING Ramse this season. He is just super hot to me this time around.

Cassie and Cole working as a team again? Yes!

Edited May 4, 2016 by Gillian Rosh

[snarktini]

Damn! Things are really picking up! Last few minutes were intense.

I sure as hell wouldn't save the guy who's literally at this moment making me dig my own grave so he can murder me and dump me in it. Maybe he thinks he needs Deacon for some reason? Hoping Cassie and Cole deal soon, because she's unpleasant to watch right now.

Loved Cassie's dress. Gorgeous, with and without the shrug (or whatever that was -- looked like a dress with sleeves, then it was sleeveless so there was a shoulder cover-er of some kind).

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I don't think Ramse rescued Deacon for any sort of selfish motivation (like making himself look better to Jones). I think that Ramse, like Cassie, talks a good game about killing people/letting others die, but it's easier when they're nameless faceless people who they don't know. Despite all the tension between Ramse and Deacon right now, they lived and worked together for three years when Cole and Ramse joined the West VII. I'm not saying that Ramse and Deacon were ever BFFs (I think "it's complicated" doesn't even begin to describe their relationship), but I think that once Ramse saw what the temporal anomaly was doing to the other guys his instinct was, "Dude, let's get the hell out of here!" Even when you're mad at someone,  that doesn't necessarily mean you want to see their face get melted off.

[snarktini]

On May 3, 2016 at 6:22 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Despite Cassie hardening during her eight months in 2044, it's obvious that her "let's go back in time and kill whoever is necessary to save the world" is not in full effect since she refused to shoot Cole or surrender Tommy to the 12 Monkeys lady (IMDB says her name is Vivian). She talks a good game (and to be honest, I think she would have killed Jennifer in the first episode if Cole hadn't stopped her), but she wasn't about to sacrifice Cole or Tommy in order to save the world.

 

Not arguing with your point, I agree, but a small clarification to make sure I have my story straight -- she didn't sacrifice Tommy because her mission was to keep him alive, to stop the Messengers from killing him. Was there a moment when sacrificing him would have benefitted her mission?

[Hanahope]

So why did Tommy run away from the Messengers in the first place if he was fine with his destiny to die?

Is Jennifer Goynes' part in the show now done, since she 'served her purpose' in saving/bringing Cole back from 2016?

[misstwpherecool]

13 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Oh, but it's also a good thing because 1940s fashion and music. 

They apparently hung around long enough that Cole was able to flatout buy that hotel room. In last week's epi didn't manager tell the clerk that Cole bought the room and himself or family was entilted to use it anytime?

[snarktini]

1 hour ago, Hanahope said:

So why did Tommy run away from the Messengers in the first place if he was fine with his destiny to die?

 

My best theory is he said he had to save Cassie -- it was his day to die, not hers. He's tapped into the timeline and can see what happens.  If he let himself be killed right away, maybe Cassie would have died trying to stop it. By delaying his death he saves her and still fulfills his destiny. 

He's also nuts. He wrote "catch me if you can"...part of the game? I could see Jennifer doing something like that, and he seems to be crazy in the same way. 

Edited May 4, 2016 by snarktini

[Hanahope]

Ramse should realize that just because history may change, doesn't mean his son won't exist.  His son still existed after the most recent history change.  He could still potentially meet the son's mother even if the plague doesn't hit.

I forget, Tommy is the decayed body that got 'dug up' that had the origins of the plague?

[CaptainE]

Was there a reason that I missed, other than showing red leaves, that Ramse had to be killed in the woods?

And why again did he "have to die?"

This is getting almost as convoluted as Continuum.

Cassie can wear jeans anytime as far as I am concerned.

[wanderingstar]

Forgot to say it was nice to see Erik Knudsen in this ep. I loved Continuum, so to see him in another time travel show was a treat.

Edited May 5, 2016 by Gillian Rosh

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

This is why I ultimately prefer the 'marathon' method of watching TV; I hate waiting for the next new episode!  (especially after a transitional point where the end of one episode will lead directly into the next).  I marathoned all of S1 over a 24 hour period about a day ago, and now have to wait for the rest of S2 to play out on a weekly basis.  Wasn't sure how I'd take it, but once I finished the first episode, I couldn't stop.

After now being caught up on the three S2 episodes, I have to say I don't think I really like the 'new' Cassie all that much.  I can tell that the S1-Cassie is still there, buried deep, but am I supposed to believe that just 8 months of living in the PA-world of 2043/'44 - and not quite as bad off as a 'scav' - changed her in an almost complete 180?  I mean, I get it, the future is a bleak & shitty new world, but she's completely all "kill first-mission only" like Cole started out as [who had 27 years of 'experience' to explain the way he is].  Its just hard to believe that only 8 months made the change that resolute in Cassie.  Plus, possibly having 'a thing' with Deacon now?  Ugh.  Anyone but him.

Its easier to understand Cole's change.  Who wouldn't want to be in a better world, and then not be changed by it?  S1 Cassie would have loved S2 Cole.  Similarly, S1 Cole could have done quite a bit more with S2 Cassie, where S1 Cassie's morals were getting in his way at times.

I know I'm not supposed to really like Ramse, considering everything, but dude, its Kirk Acevedo.  He was awesome as Charlie on Fringe and despite his actions on this show, its still very easy to tell he's not intentionally a bad guy.  And despite how little the time he's known he has a kid, its easy to believe he doesn't want to lose his son.  Man just has a bleeding heart.  But, "road to hell is paved with good intentions" and all that......

I find it unintentionally humorous how people keep forgetting the things they did (or didn't do), but blame others for doing (or not doing).  I'm forgetting specific examples right now, but one person will get mad at another for something, but an episode or few ago they did the same thing.  Maybe its taking anger for thinking they did the wrong thing out on someone else?

Really excited and intrigued how killing Tommy Crawford Jr (with a dagger made of his own bone) is creating the Red Forest in 2044.  Potential for riveting storyline... just hope it lives up to the hype.

 

I like the theories I've seen discussed about certain things, in S1, and so far in S2.  I can see them being what will happen.  But at the same time, I like that this show requires attention to details and knowing anything can happen and the writers can take the story in many directions.  Thought provoking and necessary attentiveness to what's going on make for good & entertaining TV viewing, IMO.

Edited May 5, 2016 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[angora]

7 hours ago, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

After now being caught up on the three S2 episodes, I have to say I don't think I really like the 'new' Cassie all that much.  I can tell that the S1-Cassie is still there, buried deep, but am I supposed to believe that just 8 months of living in the PA-world of 2043/'44 - and not quite as bad off as a 'scav' - changed her in an almost complete 180?  I mean, I get it, the future is a bleak & shitty new world, but she's completely all "kill first-mission only" like Cole started out as [who had 27 years of 'experience' to explain the way he is].  Its just hard to believe that only 8 months made the change that resolute in Cassie.  Plus, possibly having 'a thing' with Deacon now?  Ugh.  Anyone but him.

I can buy that Cassie, who's heard about the post-plague world and the catastrophic death toll, understands it on an intellectual level and is of course desperate to prevent it, but it's not until she actually SEES what that world looks like that it hits her in the gut and she goes, "Ohshitohshitohshit, we've gotta stop this, why aren't we doing more, don't you people get it, we've gotta stop this!!!"  In that way, it's not necessarily what she herself has experienced but what she sees her world and humanity has been reduced to.

[waving feather]

I don't mind new Cassie being a hard ass but why is she being so mean to Cole? Unless there is a link of the puzzle I'm missing. Being tough doesn't justify being mean to your friends. Cole was tough and all about the mission in season 1 but he was still nice to his friends.

It's just annoying to watch someone be snotty to another person for no good reason (that is shown to us). If there is a good reason I hope they don't drag it out.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

I think the heart of the reason as to why Cassie has been treating Cole like shit was explained by her in this episode... she was pissed at him due to blaming him for Aaron dying.  [although she didn't seem to outwardly care all that much while Cole was beating his face in to get answers].  Another 'problem' I have with her deep-seated dislike of Cole for that event, is that there was no getting through or around that fire to save Aaron.  And she must be forgetting, Aaron's cutting himself loose and running away is what led him to that moment in time and its consequences for him.

She also blames Cole for 'killing' Aaron using the rationality that "he made his choice", but wouldn't use the same rationale on Ramse soon after.  Then there was his saving Jennifer - & Ramse again - ie, getting in the way of the mission while pointing a gun at her.  There is a major patch-job to be done on what they had before, but honestly, Cole has been hard to completely trust for her ever since 1.5 {The Night Room} when she found out he killed Henri.

I think they'll get it worked out sooner or [most likely] later, as (to me) its fairly obvious that Cassie/Cole is endgame, but for now, there's quite a bit of work needed done, on both sides, to really get there.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Re-watches can be fun and informative.

The first time around, I mentally missed the direct correlation [& 'a-ha!' moment] between the FBI agent saying "What on God's green earth happened here!?!?", while in 2044 the forest turned red paradoxically.   Its the little touches that go a long way.

Edited May 6, 2016 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Inside the episode:

[FurryFury]

I liked this one a lot. I know that Cassie's darker turn may seem jarring, but I have faith we're going to see a flashback about her early days and her development with Deacon (whom I still like way more than in season one, it helps that I totally understand why he wants to kill Ramse, Ramse did betray them for a totally selfish and stupid reason). I just hope the reason she's so cold won't be too harsh. Anyway, I do buy that a person who had such a sharp transition in terms of the world they're living would change in a tremendous way.

Loved Cole/Cassie, this relationship is the show for me - I mean, I like time travel and conspiracies and basically all characters except for Ramse (most of the time), but they are the heart and the soul. 

Didn't recognize Eric Knudsen, he looked kinda hotter here than on Continuum. (Which I dropped after season 2 has made it clear the writers have no idea about the mythology - of course, I suspect the same of 12 Monkeys, but I don't really care because the characters are compelling enough for me anyway). Too bad he got shanked.

I wonder what's the point of Saul Tigh. That said, I like the actor and the character seems to have potential - and more development for Jones is always good. I'm so glad she's a regular this season and I can stop worrying about her being killed off every damn episode.

[mjc570]

Saul Tigh!  Thanks!  I knew I knew him from somewhere . . . .

[Jaded Sapphire]

On 5/4/2016 at 11:02 AM, snarktini said:

Not arguing with your point, I agree, but a small clarification to make sure I have my story straight -- she didn't sacrifice Tommy because her mission was to keep him alive, to stop the Messengers from killing him. Was there a moment when sacrificing him would have benefitted her mission?

When they were both being used as human shields/hostages. Both times she could've risked shooting Cole/Tommy in order to kill the Messenger lady.

On 5/5/2016 at 0:27 AM, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

This is why I ultimately prefer the 'marathon' method of watching TV; I hate waiting for the next new episode!  (especially after a transitional point where the end of one episode will lead directly into the next).  I marathoned all of S1 over a 24 hour period about a day ago, and now have to wait for the rest of S2 to play out on a weekly basis.  Wasn't sure how I'd take it, but once I finished the first episode, I couldn't stop.

[Snip]

I find it unintentionally humorous how people keep forgetting the things they did (or didn't do), but blame others for doing (or not doing).  I'm forgetting specific examples right now, but one person will get mad at another for something, but an episode or few ago they did the same thing.  Maybe its taking anger for thinking they did the wrong thing out on someone else?

[Snip]

I binged the first season too and now I'm hooked.

My SO and I had to laugh as Cassie literally stops Cole to tell him he can't complete the mission...as he's trying to leave to complete the mission.

[Triskan]

As much as I love and trust the show, I hope they wont drag the 1944 plot to long... it can become very boring after a while if the show focus on James and Cassie interrogated by the FBI, unable to leave the year... 

But then, as I said, I trust the show to surprise me, and from reviews from the first 8 episodes I've read online (no spoilers), apparently things will keep on kicking at a damn fast pace, so, damn looking forward to next week ! 

[MissLucas]

I know she was super-cold but damn did I love Jones explaining to Ramse why his actions were not comparable to hers and why the power politics within the facility point towards his execution.