S02.E07: Kiss And Make-up

[Tara Ariano]

An apology by Cait goes towards her trying to take responsibility for her part in the ending of her marriage to ex-wife Kris. Elsewhere, Candis looks into her options to adopt a baby.

[Madding crowd]

I don't even like Cait, but it is not Jenny's business to decide where and when Cait should talk to a doctor about SRS. Jenny seems fixated on forcing Caitlyn to admit she wants surgery. What someone/anyone does with their genitals is a personal matter. Period. I wish Candis well in becoming a parent. Adoption is very hard for everyone and probably will be even more difficult for her. I do think she should give it a chance. I believe she will find a birth mother who will see her as a good candidate to adopt her child. 

[HumblePi]

It's a shame that Candis has decided that at the age of 40 she'd like to have children. This is definitely something that every transgendered person should think about before completing their transition. I have to agree with the legal system here by not making it easy to adopt children if you're single, over 40 and a transgender woman. Naturally, any adoption process considers the child above all else and I can understand that it might be something that a child will have to deal with growing up in a home with only a transgendered mother and no father figure. I know that everyone deserves to have children and a family but as the lawyer said, some couples choose to hide the fact that they are transgendered in order to be able to gain approval for adoption. In Candis case, not only is she single and over 40 but she's a transgender nightclub entertainer. Any court will weigh all these things in making the decision to hand over a baby to her to raise. The cards are definitely stacked against her but I can't help but feel that this entire scenario about her desire to adopt a child was only brought out for this show and not her genuine wish. I think it was contrived just to illustrate just one more hurdle and obstacle that stands in the paths of anyone in the LGBT community.

 

I also think that bringing in the gender confirmation surgeon may have been Jenny Boylan's choice as far as who it was but I'm certain it was Caitlyn's wish and direction that she do so. If I hear Caitlyn say "I just don't know" one more time, I think I'll throw something at my TV.  Caitlyn Jenner knows exactly what she wants and has wanted all along. She's just a coward and doesn't want the press beating her up or embarrass her kids. But, she knows.

[maraleia]

It's a shame that Candis has decided that at the age of 40 she'd like to have children. This is definitely something that every transgendered person should think about before completing their transition. I have to agree with the legal system here by not making it easy to adopt children if you're single, over 40 and a transgender woman. Naturally, any adoption process considers the child above all else and I can understand that it might be something that a child will have to deal with growing up in a home with only a transgendered mother and no father figure. I know that everyone deserves to have children and a family but as the lawyer said, some couples choose to hide the fact that they are transgendered in order to be able to gain approval for adoption. In Candis case, not only is she single and over 40 but she's a transgender nightclub entertainer. Any court will weigh all these things in making the decision to hand over a baby to her to raise. The cards are definitely stacked against her but I can't help but feel that this entire scenario about her desire to adopt a child was only brought out for this show and not her genuine wish. I think it was contrived just to illustrate just one more hurdle and obstacle that stands in the paths of anyone in the LGBT community.

 

 

Your comment here is very transphobic and BTW its not transgendered. The ed is unnecessary. I would say go read interviews with Candis before you pass judgment on her. There are plenty of straight, cisgender women who've adopted children who are 40 plus years old so why can't lesbian or gay or transgender people do the same if they genuinely want to be a parent? That's having a double-standard and isn't cool.

 

I actually appreciated Kris during this episode.

[HumblePi]

Your comment here is very transphobic and BTW its not transgendered. The ed is unnecessary. I would say go read interviews with Candis before you pass judgment on her. There are plenty of straight, cisgender women who've adopted children who are 40 plus years old so why can't lesbian or gay or transgender people do the same if they genuinely want to be a parent? That's having a double-standard and isn't cool.

 

I actually appreciated Kris during this episode.

I'm still convinced this was all contrived and set up, and I am NOT trans-phobic, I am a realist.  It's fact and just how it is.

[maraleia]

I'm still convinced this was all contrived and set up, and I am NOT trans-phobic, I am a realist.  It's fact and just how it is.

If people like Candis don't fight the system then it won't change and your comments are still transphobic. Look at the 100 plus anti-LGBT bills floating around state legislatures across the country with most of them being against the transgender community. Oh and BTW only 11 states allow transgender people to change their birth certificate without surgery and that's wrong.

My question is have you researched any of this or are you just reacting to what is on the show and thinking it's all staged because it's a reality show?

Edited April 18, 2016 by maraleia

[millennium]

It's annoying to me when words like transphobic, homophobic and racist are used to discredit a point of view.    Such words denigrate the other party's opinion by attributing it to a character flaw rather than the product of their thoughts and experience.   It also tends to relieve the accuser of having to rebut the opposing viewpoint in a rational and convincing manner.

 

I'm transgender.   I saw nothing overtly transphobic in HumblePi's post.    It was, for the most part, a realistic point of view.

Oh and BTW only 11 states allow transgender people to change their birth certificate without surgery and that's wrong.

 

 

If I disagree and say I think surgery should be a pre-requisite for changing a birth certificate, does that make me transphobic?

Edited April 18, 2016 by millennium

[millennium]

 Caitlyn Jenner knows exactly what she wants and has wanted all along. She's just a coward and doesn't want the press beating her up or embarrass her kids. But, she knows.

 

This is the one part of HumblePi's post that I cannot agree with.   My enmity for Jenner is no secret, but I would never call her a coward for not proceeding with irreversible surgery.

 

I stated in another thread, I don't think Jenner is transsexual.   I don't think she ever was.   She may have been intrigued by the idea, hence her alleged dalliance with hormones.   But in the end, I don't believe she has the desire in her to make the final leap.

 

I think Jenner is guilty of overselling her situation to the public and leading people (including, apparently, Boylan, Bornstein, etc.) to believe she is transsexual.

 

But a coward?   Is a duck a coward because it will not become a swan?    Or, at the end of the day, is it just a duck ?

Edited April 18, 2016 by millennium

[maraleia]

It's annoying to me when words like transphobic, homophobic and racist are used to discredit a point of view.    Such words denigrate the other party's opinion by attributing it to a character flaw rather than the product of their thoughts and experience.   It also tends to relieve the accuser of having to rebut the opposing viewpoint in a rational and convincing manner.

 

I'm transgender.   I saw nothing remotely transphobic in HumblePi's post.    It was, for the most part, a realistic point of view.

 

If I disagree and say I think surgery should be a pre-requisite for changing a birth certificate, does that make me transphobic?

Yes you would because I've spoken to at least 40 transgender people here in Chicago over the past 10 years and they all say it shouldn't be a pre-requisite for changing ones birth certificate.

I understand you have a point of view but you do dominate things in these threads and have a particular bias against Caitlyn that is clouding your views. I think anyone who denies any minority their equal rights has bias against them even those in one's own community. How about the term should be anti-transgender because that's exactly what HumblePi is with their statement above.

This is the one part of HumblePi's post that I cannot agree with.   My enmity for Jenner is no secret, but I would never call her a coward for not proceeding with irreversible surgery.

 

I stated in another thread, I don't think Jenner is transsexual.   I don't think she ever was.   She may have been intrigued by the idea, hence her alleged dalliance with hormones.   But in the end, I don't believe she has the desire in her to make the final leap.

 

I think Jenner is guilty of overselling her situation to the public and leading people (including, apparently, Boylan, Bornstein, etc.) to believe she is transsexual.

 

But a coward?   Is a duck a coward because it will not become a swan?    Or, at the end of the day, is it just a duck ?

You don't need to have surgery to want to change your gender identity to match what is in between your ears i.e. your brain chemistry. I've never doubted that Caitlyn has desired this her entire life. The celebrity factor is really clouding your judgment about her. Would you say this about any other transgender person who opts out of surgery. That's ridiculous.

The fact that you refuse to use her name speaks volumes. I don't get why you are so hostile and why you continue to post here. What do you get out of it?

Edited April 18, 2016 by maraleia

[millennium]

Yes you would because I've spoken to at least 40 transgender people over the past 10 years and they all say it shouldn't be a pre-requisite for changing ones birth certificate.

I understand you have a point of view but you do dominate things in these threads and have a particular bias against Caitlyn that is clouding your views. I think anyone who denies any minority their equal rights has bias against them even those in one's own community. How about the term should be anti-transgender because that's exactly what HumblePi is with their statement above.

 

I have been transgender my entire life, which means I have lived with this blessing/curse for many long years.  My thoughts and feelings about being transgender were alive and well while Jenner was still busy playing a hunky policeman on CHiPs.   My viewpoints existed before GLAAD.   Your suggestion that my opinions on this subject are clouded by my disdain for Jenner is facile and cheap.

 

But then, dismissing me as just a Jenner-hater is easier than considering that I, a lifelong transgender person, might have an opinion which, while different from the 40 people you spoke to, is nonetheless just as legitimate as theirs.

Edited April 18, 2016 by millennium

[millennium]

 

How about the term should be anti-transgender because that's exactly what HumblePi is with their statement above.

 

Last week I came late to another Jenner thread (Kardashian forum) in which a poster known to many of us was forced to defend himself against a frivolous charge of racism.   It made me wish the moderators would be as scrupulous about policing character assassination as they are when it comes to pronoun usage. 

 Would you say this about any other transgender person who opts out of surgery. That's ridiculous.

 

But I wasn't talking about any other transgender person.   I thought that was pretty clear.

 

And there is nothing terrible about what I said.   It's a fact that not all transgender people are transsexual.   It doesn't make them less, it just means they have a different impulse.  

Edited April 18, 2016 by millennium

[GaT]

I don't even like Cait, but it is not Jenny's business to decide where and when Cait should talk to a doctor about SRS. Jenny seems fixated on forcing Caitlyn to admit she wants surgery. What someone/anyone does with their genitals is a personal matter. Period.

I agree, why is she pushing it? That is a seriously major thing to do, Jenny is doing the "my way is the only way to be transgender thing again" IMO

 

It's a shame that Candis has decided that at the age of 40 she'd like to have children. 

That was my first thought, it doesn't matter if she's transgender or not, it's the being over 40 part that's going to make it hard. I think the best she can hope for is to be a foster mom, but at her age, I don't think anyone will give her a baby, it'll be an older child.

 

And now for the confusing part. If Candis adopts/fosters kids she’ll be a mom, but Caitlyn has kids & she’s still called a dad?

 

It says a lot about this show that my favorite part is Kris Jenner.

Edited April 18, 2016 by GaT

[iwasish]

I agree, why is she pushing it? That is a seriously major thing to do, Jenny is doing the "my way is the only way to be transgender thing again" IMO

 

That was my first thought, it doesn't matter if she's transgender or not, it's the being over 40 part that's going to make it hard. I think the best she can hope for is to be a foster mom, but at her age, I don't think anyone will give her a baby, it'll be an older child.

 

And now for the confusing part. If Candis adopts/fosters kids she’ll be a mom, but Caitlyn has kids & she’s still called a dad?

 

It says a lot about this show that my favorite part is Kris Jenner.

IMO, Jenny is pushing the surgery because she may feel that a big part of the issue that some people have with the transgender community is difficulty understanding why a person who wants to be recognized as a woman would not want to remove the one part of her anatomy that says she is not. I myself wonder why the reluctance, while i do understand the many reasons that have been explained by the ladies on the show and on these boards for not doing it. But I hear Ella say, the only reason she would do it is in order to wear a bathing suit. I would think that for someone like Ella, who is so young, her life would be so much easier if she did go ahead with it.

I think the Candis wants a baby bit was contrived and a way to get the point across that it's tough to adopt as a transgender.

Even her talking head sounded scripted.

interesting that Caitlyn is so cut off from all her kids and out of the loop on their lives. Is the road trip just an excuse or is there a disconnect?. Kendall was in the hospital... She didn't call her dad? Kim stuck her nose in the business to tell Cait about Vanity Fair but not tell her, her daughter was hospitalized?

[TomGirl]

Kris's litany of Kardashian woes came across to me as one long promo for KUWTK.

[iwasish]

Kris's litany of Kardashian woes came across to me as one long promo for KUWTK.

Was that Kim's uterus issues she was talking about? 

[millennium]

I don't get why you are so hostile and why you continue to post here. What do you get out of it?

 

The simple satisfaction of knowing I didn't remain silent while a charlatan tried to co-opt something that has been very special to me and countless others for all our lives.

[ClareWalks]

I wanted to come here and talk about how ridiculously self-absorbed Cait was yet again ("What's going on at home?" with total sincerity, when even remote Amazonian tribes know about Lamar Odom), and maybe talk about Candis's adoption research which is extremely interesting. But it is not fun to discuss this show here, for a lot of reasons that are obvious in reading the episode threads. It's a shame, because this show has so many interesting facets, not to mention a narcissist who is super-fun to mock for it.

[maraleia]

This show is so ridiculously contrived and I want to apologize for stoking the flames here.

With all the anti-transgender stuff happening around the country I just want to be the best ally, while also snarking on the stuff that happens on this show, so that's why I'm so adamant about proper terminology and pronoun/name usage.

I don't want to be one of those lesbians who isn't sensitive to the needs of the transgender community, especially when there is still a divide between the lesbian and gay community and the transgender community.

It's a testament to how ridiculous Caitlyn can be that both Kris and Scott come off better than her which I never thought would happen.

I think Candis is genuine in her desire to have kids but the scenario was set up for the show like most of the stuff that happens on these kinds of shows.

Here's the thing. I think that if Caitlyn wasn't a Republican we might have an easier time with her in general. I'm still baffled at how she can't see the forest for the trees politically.

Edited April 18, 2016 by maraleia

[ClareWalks]

This show is so ridiculously contrived and I want to apologize for stoking the flames here.

With all the anti-transgender stuff happening around the country I just want to be the best ally, while also snarking on the stuff that happens on this show, so that's why I'm so adamant about proper terminology and pronoun/name usage.

I don't want to be one of those lesbians who isn't sensitive to the needs of the transgender community, especially when there is still a divide between the lesbian and gay community and the transgender community.

It's a testament to how ridiculous Caitlyn can be that both Kris and Scott come off better than her which I never thought would happen.

I think Candis is genuine in her desire to have kids but the scenario was set up for the show like most of the stuff that happens on these kinds of shows.

 

I have been baffled by how much more likeable Scott Disick is than Caitlyn. SCOTT DISICK! Of all things! ;)

[bichonblitz]

Kris and her crocodile tears about how disconnected Cait is with the family and how things have been so rough at home with all the Kardashian kid problems. Then Cait immediately goes into a diatribe about changing her drivers license and birth certificate. Way to keep making it all about you, Cait! She is so freaking insufferable!

 

Scott was awesome this episode. I hope he gets himself together. I keep waffling between liking and hating that guy. 

[iwasish]

I have been baffled by how much more likeable Scott Disick is than Caitlyn. SCOTT DISICK! Of all things! ;)

I think Scott's always been the most likeable on the show. Even at his worst, most of his behavior is self destructive. No outsiders fare well in this family. Kanye  has so far because he disappears and because Kris has a major crush on him. much like the one she has for Lamar.

[Artsda]

Loved seeing Scott and even Kris too. Kris's speech about things going on at home did sound like a set up for the new KUWTK season starting after I am Cait is done. Interesting to hear Kris got Cait a Chanel bag for her birthday and how far they've come from a year ago. 

 

I laughed at the renewal of vows line, odd thing is I think Caitlyn kind of meant it. If she could have transitioned and kept her marriage, she would have done so.

 

So has Caitlyn become useless in even changing a fire alarm battery since transitioning? Putting up electrical, changing light bulbs and doing all that handy "dad" stuff she used to be do over at Kim's for her but now she needs Scott to help change a fire alarm battery. I really hope that was just a scripted plot. 

[Primetimer]

The road trip may be over, but the horror has just begun.

Read the story

[iwasish]

Loved seeing Scott and even Kris too. Kris's speech about things going on at home did sound like a set up for the new KUWTK season starting after I am Cait is done. Interesting to hear Kris got Cait a Chanel bag for her birthday and how far they've come from a year ago. 

 

I laughed at the renewal of vows line, odd thing is I think Caitlyn kind of meant it. If she could have transitioned and kept her marriage, she would have done so.

 

So has Caitlyn become useless in even changing a fire alarm battery since transitioning? Putting up electrical, changing light bulbs and doing all that handy "dad" stuff she used to be do over at Kim's for her but now she needs Scott to help change a fire alarm battery. I really hope that was just a scripted plot. 

I think Cait didn't even hear that beeping. Her hearing has been an issue for years. I think Scott  brought the sound up and they quickly generated a cutesy little scene out of it. 

[ClareWalks]

I think Cait didn't even hear that beeping. Her hearing has been an issue for years. I think Scott  brought the sound up and they quickly generated a cutesy little scene out of it. 

 

Yeah, if she is losing her hearing that might explain why it at least didn't bother her as much as it did Scott. I know whenever my smoke alarms beep it really bugs me, even if it's faint/far away. In my old house there was one *somewhere* that kept going off. We looked everywhere for it, but the beeping seemed to be coming from the basement, near the furnace, although there was no smoke alarm visible. Months later, after my boyfriend and I had broken up and I had moved out, he called me and was like "hey, I finally found that goddamn smoke alarm, it was in a box near the furnace." Anyway, Caitlyn should not have required help to change the batteries in the smoke alarm, particularly since the only reason to ask a man to do so (not being tall enough to reach) is a moot point.

[Veronique Bette]

I think Scott's always been the most likeable on the show. Even at his worst, most of his behavior is self destructive. No outsiders fare well in this family. Kanye  has so far because he disappears and because Kris has a major crush on him. much like the one she has for Lamar.

Scott and Lamar have both been self-destructive in their behaviors and since both are parents with minor children who need them, I wish them well in their continued sobriety. Cait seemed to like Lamar and bond with him over their shared athletic prowess. I just hope Lamar doesn't ever make an appearance on I AM CAIT for a paycheck and for the KUWTK crossover ratings bid.

[iwasish]

Scott and Lamar have both been self-destructive in their behaviors and since both are parents with minor children who need them, I wish them well in their continued sobriety. Cait seemed to like Lamar and bond with him over their shared athletic prowess. I just hope Lamar doesn't ever make an appearance on I AM CAIT for a paycheck and for the KUWTK crossover ratings bid.

I hold out more hope for Scott. I just feel that underneath he's the nicer person. I've always thought Lamar was faking the cutsey thing and an entitled asshole in reality.

[Veronique Bette]

I hold out more hope for Scott. I just feel that underneath he's the nicer person. I've always thought Lamar was faking the cutsey thing and an entitled asshole in reality.

I disagree completely but since I do not want to divert from the Caitlyn thread, I will leave this right here.

[Febgirl]

File under, " Things I can never unsee"   Jenny taking a shot of fireball and motorboating that waitress, or perhaps the autoharp playing.  Take your pick....

[GaT]

IMO, Jenny is pushing the surgery because she may feel that a big part of the issue that some people have with the transgender community is difficulty understanding why a person who wants to be recognized as a woman would not want to remove the one part of her anatomy that says she is not. I myself wonder why the reluctance, while i do understand the many reasons that have been explained by the ladies on the show and on these boards for not doing it. But I hear Ella say, the only reason she would do it is in order to wear a bathing suit. I would think that for someone like Ella, who is so young, her life would be so much easier if she did go ahead with it.

Of course it would be easier if the collar matched the cuffs, but of all the body parts I have, that is pretty much the last one I would want removed or changed LOL I can't even imagine how you would get used to having completely different, um, stuff down there, you would even have to learn how to pee differently.

 

interesting that Caitlyn is so cut off from all her kids and out of the loop on their lives. Is the road trip just an excuse or is there a disconnect?. Kendall was in the hospital... She didn't call her dad? Kim stuck her nose in the business to tell Cait about Vanity Fair but not tell her, her daughter was hospitalized?

I forgot about this. how does your daughter get put in the hospital for an infectious disease but you don't know about it? She's been proclaiming her love for her family, but her kid gets a serious illness & it's news to her. Saying that she knows she sometimes "checks out" is ridiculous.

[Ottis]

My thoughts and feelings about being transgender were alive and well while Jenner was still busy playing a hunky policeman on CHiPs.

Caitlyn Jenner was on CHiPs?! In a recurring role? Off to IMDB ...

Edited April 18, 2016 by 17wheatthins
Proper name

[ClareWalks]

File under, " Things I can never unsee"   Jenny taking a shot of fireball and motorboating that waitress, or perhaps the autoharp playing.  Take your pick....

 

The autoharp thing was so RANDOM. How can Jenny Boylan be some awesome sometimes, and so awful at others? Wild inconsistency. At least she isn't consistently horrible like Cait.

[maraleia]

The autoharp thing was so RANDOM. How can Jenny Boylan be some awesome sometimes, and so awful at others? Wild inconsistency. At least she isn't consistently horrible like Cait.

Jenny got a taste for fame in the last couple of years and is basking in its glow in her own academic way. That's the only way I can describe it.

As for the rest of the ladies, sans Caitlyn, I see their role on the show as a way to increase visibility.

[babykin]

Is there a reason people think a woman over 40 is too old to adopt a baby? Seriously, that is some ageist bullsh&t.

[iwasish]

Of course it would be easier if the collar matched the cuffs, but of all the body parts I have, that is pretty much the last one I would want removed or changed LOL I can't even imagine how you would get used to having completely different, um, stuff down there, you would even have to learn how to pee differently.

 

True,. my thinking however was that if I had spent 60 years of my life looking at the one part of my body that doesn't fit with my soul, and have the opportunity to have the collar match the cuffs, I would take it. Caitlyn has said several times that she would have regretted dying without ever have experiencing "HER".. She was so pleased to have her new boobs that she was flashing her son, I just don't see her hesitance. I would not be shocked to find out that sometime in the near future she does under go the surgery.

 

Speaking of Kendall's illness, didn't she have an interview recently where she said she checked into the hospital for exhaustion? That she was worn out from travel and needed a rest? Was that a cover story for this "infection" Kris was talking about? I did read some gossip that it might have been an emotional/nervous thing brought on by the pressures of work, travel and the situation with her  dad.  

[iwasish]

Jenny got a taste for fame in the last couple of years and is basking in its glow in her own academic way. That's the only way I can describe it.

As for the rest of the ladies, sans Caitlyn, I see their role on the show as a way to increase visibility.

Yeah, she was enjoying herself interviewing Caitlyn and Ella. She does need a bit of loosening up.

At least Cait came out and stated that looks and appearance and dressing up in expensive clothing is important to her.

[maraleia]

Yeah, she was enjoying herself interviewing Caitlyn and Ella. She does need a bit of loosening up.

At least Cait came out and stated that looks and appearance and dressing up in expensive clothing is important to her.

The thing I want from everyone in the world is honesty and the fact that it's in short supply everywhere made me appreciate what Caitlyn said about her looks. That was honest but in no way do I believe that she did this as a publicity stunt. That kind of thinking denigrates anyone who isn't a straight, cisgender person (the majority of the world's population). That's why I'm so adamant about proper name and pronoun usage both in the present tense and prior to one's transition because more than GLAAD has stated this is the way transgender people should be referred to. GLAAD is just the most notable source of that information.

Edited April 19, 2016 by maraleia

[millennium]

That kind of thinking denigrates anyone who isn't a straight, cisgender person (the majority of the world's population). 

 

Putting aside my objection to the notion that criticizing Jenner is a criticism of all transgender people, how do you figure that the "majority of the world's population" isn't "straight" or "cis-gender?"

[maraleia]

Putting aside my objection to the notion that criticizing Jenner is a criticism of all transgender people, how do you figure that the "majority of the world's population" isn't "straight" or "cis-gender?"

I'm going by what we know statistically not how people actually identify themselves. I would say based on what I've heard that most people, especially women, are bisexual but they won't say.

[GaT]

I'm going by what we know statistically not how people actually identify themselves. I would say based on what I've heard that most people, especially women, are bisexual but they won't say.

Um, no. Just no.

[millennium]

I'm going by what we know statistically not how people actually identify themselves. I would say based on what I've heard that most people, especially women, are bisexual but they won't say.

 

I'm reminded of a David Spade line from an episode of Just Shoot Me: "Every woman is just two drinks away from some girl-on-girl action."

 

While it may be titillating to think that, it has been my experience that with most people, what you see is what you get.

[Madding crowd]

I think you have to respect how people identify themselves. If you know a person well enough to inquire about their sexual preferences, you should believe what they tell you. Also in regard to proper terminology, you also have to go by what the person wants to be called. For example, I do not want to be called a cis woman and I have that right regardless of what Glaad may dictate. I also don't believe most women are bisexual, I know I am not.

[politichick]

Your comment here is very transphobic and BTW its not transgendered. The ed is unnecessary. I would say go read interviews with Candis before you pass judgment on her. There are plenty of straight, cisgender women who've adopted children who are 40 plus years old so why can't lesbian or gay or transgender people do the same if they genuinely want to be a parent? That's having a double-standard and isn't cool.

 

I actually appreciated Kris during this episode.

I think the poster was trying to make the point that it would have been good for her to have thought about having children while she still had the ability to have her own. If she'd harvested some viable sperm, or whatever, she wouldn't have to worry about dealing with a double standard or whether a stranger thinks she'd make a suitable parent. The decision would be hers, not in the hands of people who might well judge her, however wrongly.

[ClareWalks]

I can only speak for myself, but I think that if people want to argue about the politics of sexual orientation and identity, it would be nice to take it to PMs or something. Maybe I'm off base, but I want to read about the show, at least in the episode threads where it is expected that we will be discussing the show. Spank me with a wooden plank if I'm wrong. :-P

 

Did anyone else breathe a wistful sigh at the "show that could have been" when we got that nice scene of Kate Bornstein and Candis talking about wanting a family? Although the whole "I want to adopt" thing was probably fairly contrived for the purposes of the show, it was at least an interesting topic with compelling people at the forefront. I did wish though that they had mentioned that there would be another option for Candis: IVF with a surrogate. There are embryos that can be adopted if she has no sperm available to her (I don't know if she would have frozen some pre-transition). At least that way she wouldn't have to go through the birth-mom rejection cycle.

[maraleia]

I think the poster was trying to make the point that it would have been good for her to have thought about having children while she still had the ability to have her own. If she'd harvested some viable sperm, or whatever, she wouldn't have to worry about dealing with a double standard or whether a stranger thinks she'd make a suitable parent. The decision would be hers, not in the hands of people who might well judge her, however wrongly.

Yeah but as we all know hindsight can be 20/20. Maybe she wasn't ready emotionally and financially to be a parent until now and couldn't afford to harvest her sperm. Remember we don't know Candis' entire story nor should we if she doesn't want to talk about it.

[Kenz]

"Family is everything to me", says the parent who ignored their four older children for years ( not even acknowledgment of birthdays, graduations, etc.) and who seems pretty vague about the activities of the other four stepchildren and two youngest daughters.

Edited April 19, 2016 by Kenz

[princelina]

Is there a reason people think a woman over 40 is too old to adopt a baby? Seriously, that is some ageist bullsh&t.

I don't know what all people think, but in my case when I got around to looking into it I was about 42 and was told that a waiting time of about 3 years would be the average.  Which would make me retirement age when my kid was graduating high school, which was why I decided I was too old. And without a partner I wondered about having the energy for it.  OT for the ep - I did think it was contrived for the show

 

True,. my thinking however was that if I had spent 60 years of my life looking at the one part of my body that doesn't fit with my soul, and have the opportunity to have the collar match the cuffs, I would take it. Caitlyn has said several times that she would have regretted dying without ever have experiencing "HER".. She was so pleased to have her new boobs that she was flashing her son, I just don't see her hesitance. I would not be shocked to find out that sometime in the near future she does under go the surgery.

I think Caitlin has gotten what she wanted, which is experiencing HER in all of her glamorous, Vanity Fair bustier, evening gowned awards acceptances, hair and makeup persons, etc.  She is interested in spending her time, money, pain and recuperation on things folks can see, like boobs and face, and possibly the rumored butt implant that was mentioned on this thread a while back :)  Since Playboy is no longer doing nude pics, and she was too old for that anyway (sorry to be ageist :) I don't see her caring much about what we all will never see anyway.  I thought she even said as much to Jen B when they were talking about what was important to them - and JB has said it a couple of times this season - having the whole body was what she (Jen) found important.  For Cait it was looking like a glamorous lady, and glamorous ladies don't go about showing their bits anyway.

 

I also find JB to be somewhat annoying and pushy, although I suppose that could be for storyline purposes.  But in this ep she claimed that she was saving "her whole life" for the surgery - yet didn't tell the wife before marrying and having kids?  Last ep she had a rationalization for that - but something's not making sense in her story.

[jnymph]

I just love Candis. She has such a nice, vibrant, genuine energy about her. I agree with kris & Caitlyn in that I think she'd make a great Mom. Whether or not the adoption issue is contrived for the show, I wish her the best.

[TomGirl]

File under, " Things I can never unsee"   Jenny taking a shot of fireball and motorboating that waitress, or perhaps the autoharp playing.  Take your pick....

Oh god, the autoharp! {{{{shudder}}}}

[Febgirl]

 

I also find JB to be somewhat annoying and pushy, although I suppose that could be for storyline purposes.  But in this ep she claimed that she was saving "her whole life" for the surgery - yet didn't tell the wife before marrying and having kids?  Last ep she had a rationalization for that - but something's not making sense in her story.

I know, after reading two of her books, and also through a family friend, that  she grew up very privileged on the Main Line of Philadelphia.  That's not to say that she didn't have to save up, but yeah,  I feel like there's more to her than viewers on a reality tv show are led to believe.

Edited April 19, 2016 by Febgirl