The Star Wars Saga

[Fool to cry]

I liked The Acolyte but I don't think it not being renewed for a second season is due to kowtowing to haters. The original concept is an easy sell for Disney: Jedi investigating a mysterious assassin killing Jedi knights. The concept for a possible season 2, what fans online apparently want

Spoiler

Two Dark Side users training and banging each other on an island and also going out killing Jedi

is not.

Edited August 27 by Fool to cry

[Morrigan2575]

Gut punch.  I was not ready for this. 😭

https://deadline.com/2024/09/james-earl-jones-dead-1236082801/

[Spartan Girl]

Neither was I! 

Dammit, I’m gonna use it:

[andromeda331]

44 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Neither was I! 

Dammit, I’m gonna use it:

Very accurate. That's exactly how I feel.

[scarynikki12]

 

[Fool to cry]

 

 

[Morrigan2575]

They both look so young 

[Dr.OO7]

That moment at the end of "Revenge Of The Sith" where you hear him as Darth Vader for the first time in 22 years is bone-chillingly spectacular. It's amazing how much a voice can make a character--there's clips on YouTube with him being voiced by the original actor and him being voiced by JEJ and the difference is stunning.

[Fool to cry]

3 hours ago, Dr.OO7 said:

That moment at the end of "Revenge Of The Sith" where you hear him as Darth Vader for the first time in 22 years is bone-chillingly spectacular. It's amazing how much a voice can make a character--there's clips on YouTube with him being voiced by the original actor and him being voiced by JEJ and the difference is stunning.

Yeah but I loved that when James Earl Jones was complimented in interviews about Vader he always graciously credited David Prowse for actually being the original man in the suit. Yes it's funny hearing Prowse' Bristol accent causing  fans to joke about "Darth Farmer" but Prowse' body language conveys this majestic bearing that fits perfectly with JEJ's voice. Prowse could have played him more robotic or like a brutish thug but instead he chose to give him the imposing authority and nobility befitting a knight or samurai. Prowse and Jones both overcoming poor backgrounds made them perfect to play this character who was born  a slave and became a "lord".

Edited September 13 by Fool to cry

[Dr.OO7]

59 minutes ago, Fool to cry said:

Yes it's funny hearing Prowse' Bristol accent causing  fans to joke about "Darth Farmer" but Prowse' body language conveys this majestic bearing that fits perfectly with JEJ's voice. Prowse could have played him more robotic or like a brutish thug but instead he chose to give him the imposing nobility befitting a knight or samurai. P

You know, you're right. I really hadn't thought about that. 

No wonder the remainder of that scene in "Sith" falls a little flat--Hayden can't quite pull it off as well as Prowse could.

[Spartan Girl]

2 hours ago, Dr.OO7 said:

That moment at the end of "Revenge Of The Sith" where you hear him as Darth Vader for the first time in 22 years is bone-chillingly spectacular. It's amazing how much a voice can make a character--there's clips on YouTube with him being voiced by the original actor and him being voiced by JEJ and the difference is stunning.

Too bad it was kind of ruined by the big cheesy “NOOOOOOO!”

[DoctorAtomic]

48 minutes ago, Dr.OO7 said:

No wonder the remainder of that scene in "Sith" falls a little flat--Hayden can't quite pull it off as well as Prowse could.

I don't know at that point prequel Vader should have the bearing of OT Vader though. Vader still was a kid at that point.

[Fool to cry]

50 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I don't know at that point prequel Vader should have the bearing of OT Vader though. Vader still was a kid at that point.

I agree. He didn't develop his majesticness until later. In the final shot when he's standing on the bridge of a Star Destroyer with the Emperor watching the Death Star construction and he crosses his arms like Darth Maul. Older Vader would have put his hands on his waist like in the beginning of ANH looking around the Rebel ship.

1 hour ago, Spartan Girl said:

Too bad it was kind of ruined by the big cheesy “NOOOOOOO!”

I wish it had been a long horrified scream like Pacino's at the end of Godfather Part 3.

Edited September 13 by Fool to cry

[Palimelon]

Yeah but most of that scream was silent. It's only a bit at the end where you hear actually hear him.

Then again, if you're doing that way, it could have been hilarious to have Vader screaming with no sound for like 20 seconds, flailing his arms, then have the Emperor reach over and adjust a knob on Vader's mask, and then we hear JEJ screaming for 5 seconds.

Edited September 13 by Palimelon

[baldryanr]

4 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Too bad it was kind of ruined by the big cheesy “NOOOOOOO!”

Lucas really liked his big NOOOO!s.  He added it to Vader's killing the Emperor scene even though it wasn't needed at all.

4 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I don't know at that point prequel Vader should have the bearing of OT Vader though. Vader still was a kid at that point.

Definitely, he was still getting used to the two artificial legs and full body armor.  Who knew that trying to flip over someone who knows how to use a lightsaber could end very badly?

[Spartan Girl]

Don’t judge me, but when I was a little kid, I honestly thought he was called “Dark Vader.” It took me a long time to get it right as Darth Vader.

And this was before I even heard of Spaceballs.

Edited September 14 by Spartan Girl

[GHScorpiosRule]

In light of his passing, of course I’m now rewatching the original trilogy-Episodes IV-VI. And I continue to resent that the remastered replaces original Anakin at the end of Return of the Jedi with Hayden’s, standing next to Obi-Wan! Just because I-III had been made.PTOOEY!!! I do remember that change but I’m watching it again now but don’t remember if they edited him in for his death scene with Luke. Like, WHY?

[Browncoat]

There is so much I resent about the remastered versions of the original trilogy.

[GHScorpiosRule]

1 hour ago, Browncoat said:

There is so much I resent about the remastered versions of the original trilogy.

SERIOUSLY! I guess I should be grateful they kept Sebastian Shaw’s Anakin in his death scene. And it’s so hilariously obvious at the end how Hayden was edited in. I remember my tween self watching for the first time in the movie theater that Shaw’s Anakin and Obi-Wan looking at each other , whereas Hayden is staring at the camera.

[Fool to cry]

20 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Don’t judge me, but when I was a little kid, I honestly thought he was called “Darth Vader.” It took me a long time to get it right as Darth Vader.

And this was before I even heard of Spaceballs.

Did you mean you thought he was called "Dark Vader"?

3 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

In light of his passing, of course I’m now rewatching the original trilogy-Episodes IV-VI. And I continue to resent that the remastered replaces original Anakin at the end of Return of the Jedi with Hayden’s, standing next to Obi-Wan! Just because I-III had been made.PTOOEY!!! I do remember that change but I’m watching it again now but don’t remember if they edited him in for his death scene with Luke. Like, WHY?

He explained it in this 2005 video with Hayden. It starts at 7:14 mark:

 

 

Fans online complain about choices he made in the Special Editions and prequels asking why he did things as if there weren't DVD commentaries, interviews he did at the time each movie was released and "making of" books available that explain his decisions. You may not agree but he had reasons and they weren't to make people mad.

[Spartan Girl]

42 minutes ago, Fool to cry said:

Did you mean you thought he was called "Dark Vader"?

Yes, that’s what I meant. Edited 😳

[GHScorpiosRule]

1 hour ago, Fool to cry said:

He explained it in this 2005 video with Hayden. It starts at 7:14 mark:

 

1 hour ago, Fool to cry said:

You may not agree but he had reasons and they weren't to make people mad.

I don’t agree. We have movies and television where younger actors play a character and played by different actors when they’re older. And why wasn’t Obi-Wan his young self at the end? Anakin died his older self and it was his good side, if you will. Shaw should have remained at the end.

But who am I but a no-nothing.

[Spartan Girl]

12 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

 

I don’t agree. We have movies and television where younger actors play a character and played by different actors when they’re older. And why wasn’t Obi-Wan his young self at the end? Anakin died his older self and it was his good side, if you will. Shaw should have remained at the end.

But who am I but a no-nothing.

Yeah why does Force Ghost Anakin get to be pretty again while Obi-Wan doesn’t?!

I always think of Robot Chicken spoofing that part: “You special edition motherfucker!” 😂😂😂😂😂

All kidding aside, I would love more Ewan Kenobi.

Edited September 15 by Spartan Girl

[Fool to cry]

2 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

 

I don’t agree. We have movies and television where younger actors play a character and played by different actors when they’re older. And why wasn’t Obi-Wan his young self at the end? Anakin died his older self and it was his good side, if you will. Shaw should have remained at the end.

But who am I but a no-nothing.

Personally I prefer the original Sebastian Stan version too. I remember seeing the ROTJ Special Edition in 1997 and the final cheer from the audience was when Sebastian Stan as Anakin's ghost appeared.  Originally in the script it was just going to be just Yoda and Obi-Wan but producer Howard Kazanjian suggested early during production to add Anakin. Then before they were going to film it Kazanjian changed his mind. As he recalls in the Making of Return of the Jedi book:

“I said to George, ‘Why? This guy [Vader]—he’s like Hitler. He’s killed. He’s done all of these terrible things and now we’re saying he’s equal with Yoda and Obi-Wan, as if he’s gone to heaven or whatever?’ George pointed to me, he was real close, and he says, ‘Isn’t that what your religion is all about?’ And, boy, that was like being slapped in the side of the face, because, yes, it is what my religion is all about, and obviously his, but I hadn’t thought it through." 

Edited September 15 by Fool to cry

[Kel Varnsen]

3 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Yeah why does Force Ghost Anikan get to be pretty again while Obi-Wan doesn’t?!

But he got to be better looking in the original version too. There is no version of Jedi where force ghost Anakin is bald and all scarred up and missing both his legs. If the Force afterlife can bring back hair that someone hasn't had for over 20 years why can't it make them look younger?

[Palimelon]

Because then Obi-wan and Yoda would look younger too, no?

[baldryanr]

18 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Yeah why does Force Ghost Anakin get to be pretty again while Obi-Wan doesn’t?!

Are you calling Alec Guinness ugly?  That's not very nice.

[Spartan Girl]

1 hour ago, baldryanr said:

Are you calling Alec Guinness ugly?  That's not very nice.

Oh God, I didn’t mean it that way. 😳😳😳😳

I’m just saying from a storytelling POV it doesn’t make sense for Anakin to get his youth back, but Obi Wan, who was good his whole life, doesn’t.

[Kel Varnsen]

2 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Oh God, I didn’t mean it that way. 😳😳😳😳

I’m just saying from a storytelling POV it doesn’t make sense for Anakin to get his youth back, but Obi Wan, who was good his whole life, doesn’t.

So would you prefer to see a bald, legless Anakin ghost floating in the air next to ghost Obi Wan?

It could be just based on how the ghost sees themselves. And it is entirely possible that original trilogy Anakin has no idea what he looks like. I mean he was put in the suit pretty quickly and I don't think that decompression chamber thing of his had any mirrors.

[DoctorAtomic]

I could buy just-in-the-suit Vader hating what he became that he didn't want to look at himself. There's a lot of self-loathing there. Say what you want about the Kenobi series (and I loved it), but it clearly showed a Vader fueled by hate. 

If we retcon, Vader told Kenobi in the series that he (Vader) killed Anakin Skywalker, so the young version of the ghost was the Anakin version. And now he's got an eternity for therapy. 

[Spartan Girl]

I loved the Obi-Wan Kenobi series. It was so much fun.

[Morrigan2575]

20 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

If we retcon, Vader told Kenobi in the series that he (Vader) killed Anakin Skywalker, so the young version of the ghost was the Anakin version. And now he's got an eternity for therapy. 

I have a memory of Lucas saying the reason he put Hayden in at the end of Return of the Jedi, was because that was what he looked like before he turned to the Dark Side, so when he turned back to the light and died his force ghost appears as Hayden but, Obi-Wan never turned from the light so his force ghost remains Alec Guinness. I imagine it would also be a bit more insulting to replace Sir Alec Guinness over some guy that was on screen for 5 minutes.

That being said, I think they missed a great opportunity in the original theatrical release to put David Prowse on screen as Force Ghost Anakin (instead of Shaw)

[Palimelon]

TBH it was basically just Lucas putting him in as a way of saying "Look you guys the prequels MATTER!"

Edited September 16 by Palimelon

[DoctorAtomic]

As much as I like to talk about Star Wars, that's probably the reason. 

[Spartan Girl]

1 hour ago, Palimelon said:

TBH it was basically just Lucas putting him in as a way of saying "Look you guys the prequels MATTER!"

Yup, just like when he added Naboo and Corescant celebrating the end of the Empire—though to be fair I liked that addition.

[Palimelon]

Oh I did too. Even if, in hindsight, it's hilarious that he is showing us the reactions from places that we hadn't seen in 3 movies ;)

At the time, though, I had no idea he was giving us a preview of places from parts I to III, but it didn't matter to me. It was a nice way to show how wide the scope was of the Empire falling, and how it would be celebrated across the universe.

Even now, I still think it is a nicer and more epic ending for the fall of the Empire, and the song is so much better than that Ewoks song, even though I know that version has it's fans.

Edited September 16 by Palimelon

[Browncoat]

1 minute ago, Palimelon said:

the song is so much better than that Ewoks song, even though I know that version has it's fans.

Boo! I love and miss Yub Nub if I watch the "enhanced" versions!  The Ewoks' dancing doesn't match the new music.

All the "enhancements" were also just George playing with that new-fangled CGI thing, too.  Ooh, looky what I can do!  I can add herds of Banthas!  Just because I want to!

 

[Palimelon]

Lol I can live with funky Ewoks dancing.

Yeah some of the changes were pointless, but a few others were ok. It was definitely hit or miss.

Edited September 16 by Palimelon

[DoctorAtomic]

If anything, I got to see the movies with my friends in the theater when we were old enough to smuggle booze in. I saw ANH first in the drive in when I was four. 

[Browncoat]

16 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I saw ANH first in the drive in when I was four. 

Star Wars -- it wasn't A New Hope yet -- was the first movie I saw in a theater by myself.  It had been out a couple of weeks, and I'd just turned 13, but I was able to convince the ticket seller that I was 11 so I could get the kid discount.  My mother was nearby and waved me on into the theater.  I don't remember why she didn't go with me, except that she had no desire to see it at all.  She did watch later, on VHS.  We borrowed the tape from the library (free! but only for one day!), and watched it over and over again all night long until we had to take it back.  I think we napped while it was rewinding.

I still have the real originals on VHS.

[Morrigan2575]

56 minutes ago, Browncoat said:

All the "enhancements" were also just George playing with that new-fangled CGI thing, too.  Ooh, looky what I can do!  I can add herds of Banthas!  Just because I want to!

Yep, some were quite jarring. Also, I know they filmed a scene with Jabba (a big guy) in A New Hope that was cut. I really didn't need a thinner Jabba (CGI Hutt) to show up in A New Hope remastered. 

Also, Han Shot First! 🤪

[Anduin]

There's only one change to the OT I like, windows on Cloud City. Let us see some more of the place.

[Browncoat]

16 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Also, I know they filmed a scene with Jabba (a big guy) in A New Hope that was cut. I really didn't need a thinner Jabba (CGI Hutt) to show up in A New Hope remastered. 

Oh, yeah, that one bothered me a lot.  I felt it really detracted from the real (puppet) Jabba, who was enormous and much more menacing by comparison.  I hate that remastered scene.

16 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Also, Han Shot First!

Yes!

[GHScorpiosRule]

On 9/15/2024 at 7:41 PM, Kel Varnsen said:

So would you prefer to see a bald, legless Anakin ghost floating in the air next to ghost Obi Wan?

Yes. That is to say, the images of Yoda and Obi-Wan were what they looked like when they died. That said, Anakin/Shaw could have his legs and arms restored, and still be bald as a ghost.

And that's the last I'll speak of this. I really didn't mean to make an issue out of this-just that I hated and resented what Lucas did.

Edited September 17 by GHScorpiosRule

[Kel Varnsen]

18 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Yes. That is to say, the images of Yoda and Obi-Wan were what they looked like when they died. That said, Anakin/Shaw could have his legs and arms restored, and still be bald as a ghost.

Bald would make more sense. Because between that and the two actual options I think the original RotJ version makes the least sense of the three. Because the last time Anakin had hair it was long and flowing. So in the original version when he dies and gets to the force afterlife, did he ask for that old man haircut?

[Fool to cry]

On 9/16/2024 at 5:47 PM, Anduin said:

There's only one change to the OT I like, windows on Cloud City. Let us see some more of the place.

My favorite is Luke reuniting with Biggs before the Death Star battle. I don't think you need the deleted Toschi Station scene to get that he's an old friend from Tattooine. 

 

[Anduin]

5 hours ago, Fool to cry said:

My favorite is Luke reuniting with Biggs before the Death Star battle. I don't think you need the deleted Toschi Station scene to get that he's an old friend from Tattooine. 

 

Yeah, that's good too.

[andromeda331]

The only thing I really like about the special editions is the galaxy wide celebration at the end of RTOJ I love seeing everyone celebrating on Tatooine, Cloud City, Naboo and Coruscant then back to the celebration on Endor. Before it really just seemed like a local celebration when it really was a big one. They are all finally free of the Empire.

[baldryanr]

7 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

The only thing I really like about the special editions is the galaxy wide celebration at the end of RTOJ I love seeing everyone celebrating on Tatooine, Cloud City, Naboo and Coruscant then back to the celebration on Endor. Before it really just seemed like a local celebration when it really was a big one. They are all finally free of the Empire.

Yup, it was a really cool scene that made it more of an ending to the entire saga instead of just one movie. 

[DoctorAtomic]

How did they all know so fast?