The Star Wars Saga

[BW Manilowe]

George Lucas is among the 6 recipients of this year's Kennedy Center Honors.

http://www.kennedy-center.org/programs/specialevents/honors/

[Kromm]

George Lucas is among the 6 recipients of this year's Kennedy Center Honors.

http://www.kennedy-center.org/programs/specialevents/honors/

Deserved, I suppose.

 

Although its worth noting Bill Cosby has one of those.

 

 

 

{Joking folks... I'm not comparing Lucas to Bill Cosby.  Although on the serious side I bet Larry Kasdan never gets a Kennedy Center Honor, and arguably he's the one who made the Star Wars universe blossom from a single film phenom to a viable multi-film franchise).}

[Joe]

In other news, five months to go. I know it's ridiculous to be so excited this far out, but I am anyway.

[DollEyes]

Re Lucas' being honored by the Kennedy Center just in time for The Force Awakens, I wouldn't be surprised if not only fellow inductee Steven Spielberg inducted him, I can see him, the other inductees and President & Mrs. Obama being escorted by Storm Troopers in bow ties/protected by the Imperial Red Guard, the Cantina band replacing the orchestra and Yoda, Darth Vader, C-3PO & R2-D2 in the audience.

[VCRTracking]

 

Re Lucas' being honored by the Kennedy Center just in time for The Force Awakens, I wouldn't be surprised if not only fellow inductee Steven Spielberg inducted him, I can see him, the other inductees and President & Mrs. Obama being escorted by Storm Troopers in bow ties/protected by the Imperial Red Guard, the Cantina band replacing the orchestra and Yoda, Darth Vader, C-3PO & R2-D2 in the audience.

 

One thing is certain, Mellody Hobson is going to look AMAZING:

[Athena]

This thread is for the discussion of the Star Wars films and its cinematic universe. You can discuss news, production, comparisons, and the interconnectedness of all the movies including the Saga (Episodes 1-8) and the upcoming three anthology films. Please also remember to use or create specific movie topics (spoilers allowed once the movie is widely released) from this universe. Thank you.

[Joe]

Ahmed Best interview! Some interesting stuff, and a couple of things stuck out at me.

 

So, when folks were holding Jake accountable for final decisions that George made it was just completely unfair. No one really understands—outside of the movie industry—how these things are made, and it's a miracle that any of them get made. When criticism like that affects the future of an actor when has a very little control over what's going on on the screen, that's when it gets tough.

Lucas is by his own admission not much of a writer or director, but he was still in charge. Everything for good or for ill belongs to him, and giving a kid flack for following instructions just isn't cool.

 

When did it get especially nasty for you? When did someone take it too far?
I think people are smart enough when they meet me to not go too far because I am who I am and I come from where I come from. At the end of the day, acting is fun but I will knock you the fuck out if you step out of line.

If I ever meet him, I'm going to be respectful and polite. Getting beaten up by Jar Jar is the kind of thing that would follow you around for the rest of your life.

 

Anyway, the whole thing is a good read.

[Kromm]

Okay, this is just... precious...

 

http://robot6.comicbookresources.com/2015/07/darth-vader-hot-air-balloon-riiiiises-in-new-jersey-sky/

 

[Bruinsfan]

If I ever meet him, I'm going to be respectful and polite. Getting beaten up by Jar Jar is the kind of thing that would follow you around for the rest of your life.

Eh, I'm pretty sure that threat to knock people out if they get out of line is all posturing. Aside from the fact that a dancer from Stomp strikes fear into the hearts of no one, he'd be risking going to trial in front of a jury that would know he's Jar-Jar. It might be the first time someone gets sentenced to Death Row for assault & battery.

[Joe]

Eh, I'm pretty sure that threat to knock people out if they get out of line is all posturing. Aside from the fact that a dancer from Stomp strikes fear into the hearts of no one, he'd be risking going to trial in front of a jury that would know he's Jar-Jar. It might be the first time someone gets sentenced to Death Row for assault & battery.

Well, yes, but it would still be embarassing.

[VCRTracking]

 

Aside from the fact that a dancer from Stomp strikes fear into the hearts of no one,

A musical that's not about conventional dancing but beating objects really, really hard.

 

He's a muscular black guy who grew up in the Bronx. I have no problem believing he can intimidate or take down the average out of shape middle aged fanboy.

 

Anyway people wonder what George was thinking with Jar Jar but looking at The Phantom Menace where the protagonists were two very serious and stoic Jedi and a very, very serious and stoic queen and a plot that revolved around a politics and taxation and bureaucracy, stuff that would go over any five year old's head, so yeah I can see the need for goofy comic relief character for the kids. I just wish he were funny for older viewers. Disney's very good at that. The sidekick that both grownups and children find entertaining. From Timon and Pumba to Olaf the Snowman.

Edited July 27, 2015 by VCRTracking

[absnow54]

And that's what C3P0 and R2D2 were in the original trilogy. They were comic relief for the kids, but had sophisticated humor that the adults could enjoy as well. And I think Lucas recognized that since Episode II & III relied on 3PO especially to take the Fool's role.

[VCRTracking]

Originally Lucas wrote C-3PO to be a used car salesman type and you can hear that in the dialogue he has trying to convince Luke to get Uncle Owen to buy R2. When they cast Anthony Daniels, the way he moved didn't match when others were brought in to re-record the voice in post-production so Daniels did the voice as an English butler. It gave the droids an "Laurel and Hardy" type of feel.

[Danny Franks]

Well, originally R2 and C-3PO were based very heavily on the two peasants from Kurosawa's The Hidden Fortress. Unlikely, unassuming protagonists, caught up in affairs larger than they understand. C-3PO's seedy, used car salesman personality would have fit in more with the opportunistic thieves of Kurosawa's movie. But as the idea was refined, it became less of a rip off of that movie, and the characters departed (quite drastically, in some cases) from Lucas's original vision.

 

The humour of those two characters isn't specifically aimed at children, in my view, but more just aimed at being funny for anyone. They bicker, insult each other, R2 uses some choice (but indecipherable) language. I see it as being somewhat different than the role Jar-Jar Binks played in The Phantom Menace. A movie that was primarily aimed at the children who would buy the merchandise.

[VCRTracking]

The new movie should definitely be for the adults buying the merchandise.

[VCRTracking]

A new shot from the South Korean trailer of The Force Awakens:

 

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/08/10/glimpse-first-orders-forces-new-star-wars-force-awakens-korean-trailer?hootPostID=79755f10249b8b2ef3703ad6a884d9ee

 

[Joe]

It reminds me a bit of the shot at the end of ep II, with all the clones boarding the ships. Unless it cropped up in Rebels, that's the only other time we've seen so many troopers in one place.

 

Update! No new footage at D23. He was telling the truth about no trailer at Comic-Con, technically. But there's probably going to be something.

Edited August 11, 2015 by Joe

[Kromm]

I already posted this in the Force Awakens thread, but I suppose it belongs here too.

 

A poster. With a HUGE character reveal. I mean in the Star Wars universe, it means something specific to be carrying a lightsaber. And someone (besides the Sith) is.

 

 

Someone commented in the other thread this poster is just for a specific event.  That said, that doesn't invalidate the reveal. We didn't know this about this character until now.

[Danny Franks]

That style of movie poster is almost as iconically Star Wars as lightsabers and TIE Fighters. It's a nice design, even if Han does look slightly confused by the gun he's holding.

[Kromm]

That style of movie poster is almost as iconically Star Wars as lightsabers and TIE Fighters. It's a nice design, even if Han does look slightly confused by the gun he's holding.

That's easy to explain. He's busy wondering if he should shoot first.

[Joe]

On a completely different note. I'm just a bit concerned about the spinoff movies, or whatever they're calling them this week. They're prequels! Haven't we already learned three hard lessons about Star Wars prequels?

[Kromm]

On a completely different note. I'm just a bit concerned about the spinoff movies, or whatever they're calling them this week. They're prequels! Haven't we already learned three hard lessons about Star Wars prequels?

Maybe only when George Lucas is running them.

 

If the center of control lies closer to Larry Kasdan (who's the announced screenwriter for "Untitled Han Solo Star Wars Anthology Film" at the very least), it ought to be fine.

[Danny Franks]

I think the other movies will be okay as long as they're allowed to stand on their own two feet. One of the biggest problems the prequels had was that they were designed to serve the original trilogy. They were built to get Anakin from being a snotnosed kid to a snotnosed Sith, instead of just telling an interesting, engaging story. 

 

The other movies should be free of that, and even where they tie in to the pre-existing storyline, they should have enough freedom to explore new ground without having to come back to the same old narrative. But I'm still not sold on a Han Solo movie, because I just don't think he's a character who needs to be delved into any more deeply. He's fine as he is.

[VCRTracking]

They were built to get Anakin from being a snotnosed kid to a snotnosed Sith, instead of just telling an interesting, engaging story.

 

 

 Shakespeare made many engaging stories out of a character's falls from grace.  I've heard so many complaints about the prequels from people but what most of it all boils down to is it they had their own ideas of what the backstory of the original trilogy should have been. Anakin in the movies didn't fit what their idea of who Vader was before he went to the dark side. "Anakin should have been like this and the Jedi should have been blah blah blah". Yes, the acting and dialogue could have been better in the prequels, but even if it had fans would still not like it because it didn't match what they imagined in their head.

Edited August 18, 2015 by VCRTracking

[Kromm]

 Shakespeare made many engaging stories out of a character's falls from grace.  I've heard so many complaints about the prequels from people but what most of it all boils down to is it they had their own ideas of what the backstory of the original trilogy should have been. Anakin in the movies didn't fit what their idea of who Vader was before he went to the dark side. "Anakin should have been like this and the Jedi should have been blah blah blah". Yes, the acting and dialogue could have been better in the prequels, but even if it had fans would still not like it because it didn't match what they imagined in their head.

I'm sorry but I can't agree.

 

Oh, I'm not saying people didn't feel that way about Anakin. Maybe even most.  But you've seemingly (IMO very mistakenly) assigned that as the primary gripe people have with the prequels.  And I don't think that's even close to the primary gripe.

 

I actually think there are probably a full dozen things that might grace such a list other than "Anakin's not like that!" And I wouldn't be so dismissive of the bad writing in the prequels. That mattered to people.  Sure they were matching their expectations against something they saw in their childhood, but for the most part the writing in IV through VI help up (particularly in New Hope, which was fairly intentionally a simple piece--and in Empire Strikes Back, which wasn't).  Whereas the way characters spoke, many of the things they did, a few key cases of how things looked, etc. just came off as damn silly in the prequels. Not "not what we expected". Silly.

[Bruinsfan]

I didn't really care about Vader's backstory, beyond the bare bones of him being Luke and Leia's father and Ben Kenobi's traitorous protege. What I cared about was terrible writing throughout the three prequels, that kid turning in a performance that rivaled Short Round for annoyance, and a bunch of really objectionable veiled racial caricatures. Oh, and of course Jar-Jar, whose infliction upon the moviegoing public is something I will NEVER forgive Lucas for.

Edited August 18, 2015 by Bruinsfan

[Dandesun]

I suppose the argument could be made about how Anakin should have acted or what he should have done or whatever...

 

My biggest gripe is that Anakin should have been interesting.

 

He wasn't. He was a twerp. Why was I supposed to care about this twerp? I didn't. Ultimately, I cared about Obi-Wan because he was interesting. And I wound up judging Padme so harshly She was the poster child for 'Smart Women, Stupid Choices.' At least Leia had much much much better taste in men than her mother did. Leia also struck me as a stronger leader.

[VCRTracking]

I think Luke is actually less interesting than Anakin, what I think you mean is "identifiable". 

 

Leia also struck me as a stronger leader.

 

 

Amidala repulsed an invasion from her homeworld while Leia's planet is destroyed.

 

Every fan thinks their reaction was rational but if that were true they would just forget about it the way they would any bad movie. When people without irony say their "childhood was raped" because of three movies that is not a rational response.

 

 

Oh, and of course Jar-Jar, whose infliction upon the moviegoing public is something I will NEVER forgive Lucas for.

I was annoyed by Eddie Deezen who I had to endure in a lot of movies I've seen:  Grease(Eugene), 1941, I Wanna Hold Your Hand and Zapped! but he hasn't been a constant presence in our culture since the early 80s. The only people who still constantly bring up Jar Jar now are pissed off fans.

Edited August 18, 2015 by VCRTracking

[Kromm]

The only people who still constantly bring up Jar Jar now are pissed off fans.

How could you possibly know that?  That's got to be about as subjective a judgment as any.

 

I hear mentions of Jar Jar and how much he sucks EVERY single time I hear or see someone discuss the movie. Every. Single. Time.  So does that mean the only people I hear from are "pissed off fans"?  And if so, what does that say about the movie?  Are we supposed to regard the opinions of people who don't talk about the movie at ALL (and who's opinions you must therefore just be guessing about) as more important than those who actually DO talk about it (and as I said, inevitably dump on Jar Jar)?

 

I just don't get the point trying to be made here.  Jar Jar himself is just one character, sure, but he's representative of a great problem--that the writing sucks. It's not just fanboys and fangirls whining that they don't like individual plot or character choices. Perhaps people saying over the top stuff about childhoods being raped and such are being a bit hyperbolic, but that doesn't somehow automatically invalidate every negative comment people make about this films. In fact it invalidates precious few of them.

[stealinghome]

Leia also struck me as a stronger leader.

The prequels screwed Padme over by deleting pretty much every single Post-Phantom Menace scene of her actually, you know, leading and playing politics and generally doing things! There's a cut on youtube, can't remember what it's called, but they basically splice together all of her deleted scenes and she's SO much more dynamic--you see that she is one of the original leaders of the Rebellion (so that just as Luke "fixes" Anakin's mistakes, Leia "fixes" Padme's). I mean, don't get me wrong, Padme still has ATROCIOUS taste in men, but she's a much better character with the deleted scenes. I don't know who edited the films but they did her absolutely no favors. (And while I actually like Return of the Sith, ngl, I have a feeling that the foundation of the Rebellion was a much more interesting story than what we got, wish they'd focused on that more.)

 

I agree that there was always going to be fan pushback about the prequel trilogy, but I also agree that a significant majority (I'm going to just throw out something like 65-80%) of the current pushback is because the movies were pretty awfully written and directed--and acted by the two Anakin actors. Fanboys and fangirls were always going to gripe, but the far more damning thing imo is that the casual fan thought they were bollocks.

Edited August 18, 2015 by stealinghome

[Danny Franks]

There are entire essays, websites and documentaries devoted to identifying and discussing all the things people considered wrong with the prequel trilogy. And most of them are very valid. To try boiling it down to saying that people didn't like the movies being different to what they hoped, or to say it was because of how Anakin acted or because of Jar Jar, completely glosses over the stupendous amount of bad decisions that were made during the conception, writing, acting, direction and post-production of those movies.

 

I never gave a crap about Anakin Skywalker. I didn't care what he was like before he became Vader. It didn't matter, all that mattered was that there was enough of that man left to come through for his son in the end. Anakin could have been nearly anything and I'd have been happy. But what he was was a whiney, entitled, arrogant, clearly unstable, ungrateful brat with a god complex. And that's in the movie where he's supposed to be considered a heroic figure, never mind the one where his fall is supposed to be completed.

 

It's all very well saying, 'well they were George Lucas's visions, so fans shouldn't complain'. Lucas's vision, as realised on screen, sucked. It made no sense, the characters made no sense, the stories were a mess, the plot holes were gaping. There is nearly nothing right about any of those prequels, as part of a larger story or as individual movies. Sure, other people will have their views about what the backstory should be, and the movies might have contradicted those views, like prequels always do. That wouldn't have mattered much if the movies had been good. But they weren't.

[ulkis]

I mean, I like the prequels, but I think that's mostly because I want to like them. I like the casting. At least the last two I like. I tried re-watching "Phantom" and it really was that bad.

 

At least John Williams held up his end. 

[ulkis]

I suppose the argument could be made about how Anakin should have acted or what he should have done or whatever...

 

My biggest gripe is that Anakin should have been interesting.

 

He wasn't. He was a twerp. Why was I supposed to care about this twerp? I didn't. Ultimately, I cared about Obi-Wan because he was interesting. And I wound up judging Padme so harshly She was the poster child for 'Smart Women, Stupid Choices.' At least Leia had much much much better taste in men than her mother did. Leia also struck me as a stronger leader.

 

sometimes I wonder if the problem was that Anakin was a good guy. Maybe he should have been mostly bad and the only thing he loved was Padme, and Obi-Wan had been fooling himself that Anakin was a good guy. So when Padme died Anakin finally snapped and in the original trilogy realizing he had children by Padme is what could have redeemed him the first time overall, instead of finding the good man again.

 

Because I think they wanted to show that Anakin was a good man but the problem is, then that's not really plausible if he pretty much goes dictator on the universe. Maybe good writing could have done a better job, but I don't know if 6 hours is really enough to show someone go from innocent angelchild to EVIL DICTATOR OF THE UNIVERSE. (or evil dictator's #1 evil henchman, what have you.)

[VCRTracking]

There was also always the danger of Luke going down the same path and because of the same weaknesses.

[Danny Franks]

 

sometimes I wonder if the problem was that Anakin was a good guy. Maybe he should have been mostly bad and the only thing he loved was Padme, and Obi-Wan had been fooling himself that Anakin was a good guy. So when Padme died Anakin finally snapped and in the original trilogy realizing he had children by Padme is what could have redeemed him the first time overall, instead of finding the good man again.

 

Because I think they wanted to show that Anakin was a good man but the problem is, then that's not really plausible if he pretty much goes dictator on the universe. Maybe good writing could have done a better job, but I don't know if 6 hours is really enough to show someone go from innocent angelchild to EVIL DICTATOR OF THE UNIVERSE. (or evil dictator's #1 evil henchman, what have you.)

 

Well I never thought they showed him being a good person anyway. They tried to tell the audience he was, but from his first moments on screen as an adult, he was whiny, passive-aggressive, entitled and creepy (especially with the initial 'romantic' dialogue with Padme).

 

I've said it before, but you have to build someone up to make their fall tragic, and I don't think Lucas ever built Anakin up as anything other than a powerful Jedi. Which isn't the same as being a good Jedi. It was a serious weakness in the movies, that all people were expecting was to see him turn evil. Unavoidable, when you build a trilogy around a character who's fate is pre-ordained by much-loved, older movies.

 

However they tried to execute it, I don't think it would have worked when they made Anakin the central figure. Focusing more on Obi-Wan, with Anakin as his sidekick might have given them more emotional resonance when he turned.

[stealinghome]

I would say the center of the prequels should have been the relationship between Obi-Wan and Anakin. Then we all would have cared much more about Anakin's fall. I love in Revenge of the Sith when Obi-Wan is screaming at Anakin, and McGregor sold the hell out of it, but it always rings a bit hollow because we never really saw them as close at all. Imagine if that moment had 2.5 movies' worth of connection and friendship behind it. McGregor would have slain it.

[SnoGirl]

I would say the center of the prequels should have been the relationship between Obi-Wan and Anakin. Then we all would have cared much more about Anakin's fall. I love in Revenge of the Sith when Obi-Wan is screaming at Anakin, and McGregor sold the hell out of it, but it always rings a bit hollow because we never really saw them as close at all. Imagine if that moment had 2.5 movies' worth of connection and friendship behind it. McGregor would have slain it.

I agree, and that's what I had expected the movies to be when they were first announced. I also don't think McGregor and What's-his-face had any chemistry, and it's a real shame because even though we all knew about the fall, it would have been amazing watching the relationship of Obi-Wan and Anakin just waiting for that shoe to drop.

[Bruinsfan]

I'd have been all for making McGregor's role more central to the movies, as he was one of the few actors able to rise above the material and turn in an entertaining performance. (Ian McDiarmid  and Christopher Lee were also able to, of course, but then they had the benefit of more dynamic and flashy villain roles. It's interesting to me that Liam Neeson wasn't, and I'm on the fence about Samuel L. Jackson.)

[VCRTracking]

Listening to the figures and voice changers that have recordings of the actors I like that Gwendoline Christie is using her British accent for Captain Phasma and John Boyega is using an American one playing Finn.

Edited September 8, 2015 by VCRTracking

[Ronin Jackson]

 

It's all very well saying, 'well they were George Lucas's visions, so fans shouldn't complain'. 

 

They are George Lucas's visions, but fans can complain all they want. George Lucas was entitled to make whatever type of films he wanted out of the prequels and he did. The fans were actually not entitled to get films that they like. That being said, none of them have to like the films.

 

It's unfortunate that George Lucas wasn't interested in doing something different and more powerful with the prequels, because he really had cooked up a meaty story to work with. I agree that if the focus had been on the relationships between Anakin and Padme, as well as Anakin and Obi-Wan, and attention had been given to the scripts as well as the performances to make it work, Revenge of the Sith could have been an exceptionally powerful film. George Lucas probably never cared about creating that. Even though I didn't like the results, I still feel the best situation for a film is when a single person has creative control to channel all the collaborators talents into a unified vision, which was the case with the prequel.

 

So far the new fangled Lucasfilm seems to be going out of their way to let fans know they are trying to make the films that the fans want. I don't know how real that is... this notion that the "audience" or the fans is some kind of hive mind collective that can be appeased. If that's what is fueling the creative force behind the new trilogy, I'm sure they can succeed in making fun, entertaining pictures but they probably won't achieve the timelessness of the original trilogy (or at least the first two films).

 

I'll have to see the films first of course, but I'm not sure about how they've got different directors helming each of the films. Granted, that was the case with the original trilogy, but there was always George Lucas as the top, controlling things. If that person in the new trilogy is a suit and not a creator, that's a bad sign. I love that they picked Rian Johnson to helm one of the films. Colin Trevorrow seems like an uninspired choice to conclude the trilogy (I wasn't all that hyped about "Safety not Guaranteed", the only one of his films I've seen). Can three different creative works helmed by different people feel like it has a unified vision?

 

To sum up my point here... I think it's likely I'll like the new movies more than the prequels. I like many of the things I'm hearing. I'm looking forward to seeing the old guard reprise their roles and I think it's great they cast a black actor as the lead. But I hope this is a work that comes from the hearts of Abrams, Johsnon and Trevorrow and not the suits at Lucasfilm and Disney.

[Danny Franks]

So apparently this makes up part of the post-Jedi canon:

 

 

I have to say, these First Order fellows might not be all bad after all. Sure, 'space nazis with an Empire fetish' isn't a good combo, but no one's perfect, right?

[Kromm]

Those lucky dogs in the UK get something special. Star Wars Stamps.

 

You heard me. Star Wars Stamps: http://www.digitalspy.com/movies/news/a668048/the-royal-mails-new-star-wars-stamps-feature-darth-vader-yoda-han-solo-princess-leia-and-more.html#~pofpeAI6VBxctx

 

 

Actually to be fair, the US has had Star Wars Stamps before. Back in 2007: https://about.usps.com/postal-bulletin/2007/html/pb22205/info.7.10.html

 

[Ronin Jackson]

I saw Jurassic World and remain unenthusiastic that Trevorrow is helming the final episode, particularly following up Rian Johnson who was a really inspired choice. The three director lineup, and having a different writer for at least episodes VII and VIII, makes me wonder if these aren't going to be designed as three relatively self contained stories. I suppose it'd be a good idea to keep expectations tempered...

[VCRTracking]

Thinking about it, if I saw a Liam Neeson movie where he plays a cop(who doesn't play by the rules) and he has a younger partner who's a straight arrow and during the movie Liam tells him, "You're going to be a great cop someday." I would assume the younger cop was definitely going to die at the end! And If Liam Neeson ended up getting killed and now the younger cop was now suddenly the hero we'd be following I'd be like "WTF?!"

[VCRTracking]

Steven Spielberg, Robert Zemeckis and Ron Howard All Turned Down ‘Star Wars: The Phantom Menace’

 

Ron Howard says in a recent podcast interview:

 

"[George Lucas] didn’t necessarily want to direct them. He told me he had talked to Robert Zemeckis, Steven Spielberg, and me. I was the third one he spoke to. They all said the same thing: “George, you should do it!” I don’t think anybody wanted to follow-up that act at the time. It was an honor, but it would’ve been too daunting."

 

[Ronin Jackson]

I think part of the reason he couldn't get any of those guys is they were big names with clout, and Star Wars was Lucas' baby. I wish he'd asked Kirshner, apparently he'd have been willing. But aside from that it needed to be a less established director who'd be willing to carry out Lucas' vision.

[Proclone]

I consider myself a fan of the original Trilogy and was hugely into the expanded universe when I was a kid.  I'm not a fan of the prequels.  They proved that George Lucas is great at creating a world but, his talent does not lay in writing dialogue that humans (or aliens) would actually ever utter.  As an adult I can see that the original Star Wars was really only saved from being very prequel-like by the actors performances and even then there are a few painfully bad lines with painfully bad line readings. 

 

But I'm not sure even having a better writer or director could have saved the prequels entirely (they certainly could have helped) if the story had been the same.  First I agree, I don't think we needed to see Anakin's downfall.  Vader is a bigger than life character.  When you pull back the curtain on characters like that they're bound not to live up to your expectations.  That being said, I really didn't like some of the story choices that Lucas made just in terms of telling an interesting story without that baggage attached.  Firstly the whole virgin birth nonsense.  I think it makes the story more powerful if Anakin is just a man, not this quasi Jesus figure.  If Anakin is just a man, he makes bad choices that lead him down a path he can't get off of.  If he's this Jesus figure, born to balance the Force then he was destined to go to the dark side and nothing he did was his fault.  At least that's how I see it, YMMV of course.  So, I wouldn't have started out Anakin as a child (really Phantom Menace was unnecessary IMO), but rather started him around the same point in clone wars, having him just happen to be a Paladin assigned to Obi Wan. 

 

Cutting out the cute kid phase also allows more time (assuming it would still be a trilogy) to show Anakin as an actual hero with that tragic flaw, that makes his fall...you know....actually tragic.  It also would have allowed more time to flesh out Padme's character and maybe make a believable love story.  Anakin also needed to be likable.  To a certain extent I can see that they were trying to create parallels between Anakin and Luke's character, but Luke can get away with being a bit of a whiny emo teenager because we know he's going to become THE HERO. We as an audience are willing to forgive some of that because we can see he's moving away from that.  We know Anakin is going to become more evil, he can't be unlikable to begin with.  For the prequels to work we need to feel the tragedy (sorry I've used that word a lot) of Anakin's choices.  Anakin needed to be charming and charismatic and he wasn't even close to being either.  Part of that was writing and part of that was performance.  Lucas created Han Solo for heaven's sake (granted due must be given to Ford for the performance), we know he has interesting characters in him, why he didn't make Anakin one is beyond me.

 

I also would gone a bit beyond Anakin's turn to Vader and shown some of the early resistance to the Empire.  I really wish Padme would have lived longer and been involved.  It would also make more sense with what we know from the originals.  Leia talks about remembering her mother's voice.  It would have made more sense for Padme to have run from Anakin when she realized he was turning to the dark side, have her raise the twins for a short while, realize that Anakin now Vader was never just going to let her take his kids and disappear and then ask Obi Wan and Bail Organa for help hiding the kids.  After the twins are spirited away, Vader finally tracks her down and kills her when she refuses to tell where the children are (or child if he never learned that she was having twins).  Padme then goes out protecting her kids instead of dying from a broken heart or whatever BS Lucas tried to shove down our throats.

[VCRTracking]

I think the original Trilogy is a metaphor for Lucas' relationship with his father and the prequels were a metaphor for his relationship with his wife.

[Ronin Jackson]

I agree many of Lucas' storytelling choices were weak... but the overall story of Anakin's fall had great potential and a different director (who could work with actors) and better dialogue would have helped tremendously. It's probable that he wouldn't have listened to suggestions to change some of the weaker story points though.

 

Still... this is something I've mentioned this a couple of times in the TFA thread, but I can't quite get on board with the hating on Lucas and the celebration by fans that the franchise has been taken out of his hands. He's limited as a filmmaker, no doubt... but IMO, I still want to see films, even big budget special effects films, where the key creative people... either the director or the writer... has the creative control. Star Wars has now become a headless Disney corporation franchise and fans are celebrating this like it's the greatest thing ever... I actually find that kind of appalling (even though, I must admit, I'm very excited for the new film). I guess I can live with the prequel movies being films I didn't think were very good more than many fans. The worst thing the new films can be is a series of fan service fan fiction films, and I'm not sure there's any indication they won't be exactly that. I'd take a Lucas controlled weak film like the prequel films over a headless corporate weak film (like say, the Avengers sequel). Not because the former is necessarily a better film, but because the former will result in better films in general.

[Kromm]

Carrie Fisher really has no filter does she?

 

Or a classic Carrie moment (from a few years back):