S02.E06: Guess Who's Coming To Dinner?

[Tara Ariano]

In an attempt to improve their relationship, Kris visits Cait in New Orleans. But when old wounds arise between the exes, Cait's friends must intervene.

[Primetimer]

There's nothing in this world that can stop Kris Jenner from invading your space and asking about your genitals.

Read the story

[iwasish]

Now we know where Khloe got her obsession with genitals.

[millennium]

Pretty sure genital discussions are verboten here.

[TomGirl]

I go back and forth so much on Jenny. She can be so annoying, know-it-all and condescending, but just when I'm thinking I don't like her, she gets off her high horse and lets loose on the dance floor, and then I find her totally lovable. I really, really like all of these women, but I missed Zackery tonight.

[Madding crowd]

Caitlyn is just so dull, this show wouldn't have a chance without the other women. So do we think the producers are making the women ask Caitlyn all the questions? Listening to her try to answer is liking watching paint dry. In regard to Kris: I think it natural to have questions, but I don't know, I knew for awhile that some people have surgery when they are transgender, and some don't. A person's individual decision is no ones business, but I think the question is OK in general.

 

So, it seems Caitlyn was saying she would only date women unless she had surgery and then she would date men. I'm not sure this makes a lot of sense to me unless Caitlyn truly is bisexual. Maybe she is afraid a man won't accept her?  I'm glad they had fun in NOLA, but it seems like the women are enjoying themselves less and less as time goes on. I know I would find a forced road trip with people i don't know well to be hell. 

[millennium]

Caitlyn is just so dull, this show wouldn't have a chance without the other women. So do we think the producers are making the women ask Caitlyn all the questions? Listening to her try to answer is liking watching paint dry.

 

 

These other women already know the answers to most of the questions.   They've been there, done that.  They were living the life while Jenner was still cashing in on her old persona.   That they all agreed to be second bananas to Jenner appalls me.   It's like watching a bunch of adults trying to extract profound truths from a particularly dull-witted child.   I feel embarrassed for them.

 

How can they not be asking themselves, what's wrong with me?  Why didn't the world care about me or what I thought when I changed?   I think of all the difficult times they must have endured, the challenges they faced alone ... in what sane world does the sum total of all that hard experience land them at the knee of this super-entitled twit who keeps assistants on hand just to brush her fucking hair?

Edited April 11, 2016 by millennium

[nexxie]

Wish Kris would've said, "Yeah, Bruce told me all about his gender thing, but I chose to focus on the growth potential of his fame and fortune."

[HumblePi]

These other women already know the answers to most of the questions.   They've been there, done that.  They were living the life while Jenner was still cashing in on her old persona.   That they all agreed to be second bananas to Jenner appalls me.   It's like watching a bunch of adults trying to extract profound truths from a particularly dull-witted child.   I feel embarrassed for them.

 

All that and more because she's STILL cashing in on her old persona. Aside from her general grotesque appearance, it's more bothersome to me the way Caitlyn pronounces the word 'she's'. Because of her Botox and fillers, she's not able to pronounce certain words and she'll say 'sheesh' instead of 'she's'.

 

While talking about surgical sex transformation, Caitlyn made the statement;

"Gender confirmation surgery is something I think anybody in my position or the girls position of course, we did look into. For me, I have NO idea what the future holds." Isn't that statement really saying that she wants the sexual transformation surgery but doesn't want to announce it? I might have a little higher opinion of her if she could have been totally honest and definitive about her thoughts regarding her own sexual reassignment or whether it's even what she wants to do or not. But it doesn't seem likely that she'll come out in public and in front of cameras and admit it if she did. She only mentioned the fact that she and the girls have "looked into it".  Even in that one sentence she just couldn't bring herself to say "I have looked into it" but instead she had to have the girls as an umbrella over her head protecting her from criticism. Wouldn't people in the transgender community have just a little more respect for her if she did?  Caitlyn is still trying to be what she thinks the public wants just to avoid being judged by some, avoided by others, and shunned by more. She still wants to be 'the popular kid in school' and knows that the revelation that she's considering sex transformation might bring about changes in how she's accepted.

I also have a problem that Caitlyn felt that it wasn't necessary to consult with the group before inviting Kris to join them for an evening in New Orleans. It's obvious from the reactions of Chandi and Candys that they weren't thrilled about that. Caitlyn is inviting an outsider to join them and is subjecting all of them to something one, or all, might possibly have a problem with. But again, Caitlyn feels she can just do whatever she wants to do. Even if the whole damn bus trip is on Caitlyn's dime, there's still a fundamental principle involved here that a person shouldn't just do something that involves an entire group without consulting with them ahead of time.

[iwasish]

So while Caitlyn is on the road, she doesn't keep in touch with her kids? I did laugh at the room Kris was staying in.  A far cry from the luxury she's used to!!

 

Kris goes right into the conversation about what's going on below the waist, right after the group has the discussion about it being off limits as a topic for most of them.

 

It was nice to see Jenny Boylan loosen up a bit.

[Artsda]

I don't think Caitlyn consulted on Scott coming, it's family coming to visit her.  Kris seemed to enjoy herself and had fun. It was nice to see.

 

So while Caitlyn is on the road, she doesn't keep in touch with her kids? I did laugh at the room Kris was staying in.  A far cry from the luxury she's used to!!

 

She talked to Kourt the week before and Scott was there. Cait wasn't really MIA. 

Edited April 11, 2016 by Artsda

[HumblePi]

Jennifer Boylan:

"The reason that I didn't tell my wife before we got married was because I wanted to protect the people that I loved, I didn't want to cause harm to the people I loved, I didn't want to be a source of trouble, I wanted to protect them and I wanted to stand between them and the trouble of the world."  

Caitlyn agrees "And that's exactly where I was"

 

Each of these women have basically chosen to hide their need to transgender in order to achieve the things in life that 'normal' people are expected to achieve. 'Normalcy' in the way they're perceived, marriage and children, etc. Caitlyn's version in the 80's with Kris clearly led her to believe that he took steroids to enhance his athleticism, and it's understandable that's how Kris took it. If Caitlyn had been totally transparent and told her in plain words that can't be misconstrued, "I feel like I've been born with the wrong gender because inside of myself I feel like a woman, not a man. I took hormones to transition my body into something feminine". There's no way to misunderstand when it's put that directly. Kris should have been allowed to make her own decision at that point as to whether she would stay married to Bruce and have children and a life with him, or to walk away from the marriage and try to be a friend only.

 

Jenny Boylan hit the nail on the head when it comes to Caitlyn being forthcoming when she paraphrased Caitlyn, "For most of them, the decision to hide isn't really to protect others, it's to protect themselves".  It would be a selfless act to come forward with the truth before going through the motions of marriage, children, etc.  But that's not what they wanted, they wanted all of it even if it meant deception to the very people they love.That statement is in direct conflict with what Jenny Boylan had said earlier. What she said about trying to protect those she loved was proven to be nothing more than pomposity and totally false, she and Caitlyn both were protecting themselves and in the process hurting those they love the most.

 

"I wouldn't date a guy with ****"  Kris says 'really? you can go out for a drink you don't have to have sex'.  Caitlyn is saying that she would date a guy but that guy has to have transitioned into a female also.  Caitlyn is lesbian but only with another transgender lesbian.

Edited April 11, 2016 by HumblePi

[iwasish]

Jennifer Boylan:

"The reason that I didn't tell my wife before we got married was because I wanted to protect the people that I loved, I didn't want to cause harm to the people I loved, I didn't want to be a source of trouble, I wanted to protect them and I wanted to stand between them and the trouble of the world."  

Caitlyn agrees "And that's exactly where I was"

 

Each of these women have basically chosen to hide their need to transgender in order to achieve the things in life that 'normal' people are expected to achieve. 'Normalcy' in the way they're perceived, marriage and children, etc. Caitlyn's version in the 80's with Kris clearly led her to believe that he took steroids to enhance his athleticism, and it's understandable that's how Kris took it. If Caitlyn had been totally transparent and told her in plain words that can't be misconstrued, "I feel like I've been born with the wrong gender because inside of myself I feel like a woman, not a man. I took hormones to transition my body into something feminine". There's no way to misunderstand when it's put that directly. Kris should have been allowed to make her own decision at that point as to whether she would stay married to Bruce and have children and a life with him, or to walk away from the marriage and try to be a friend only.

 

Jenny Boylan hit the nail on the head when it comes to Caitlyn being forthcoming when she paraphrased Caitlyn, "For most of them, the decision to hide isn't really to protect others, it's to protect themselves".  It would be a selfless act to come forward with the truth before going through the motions of marriage, children, etc.  But that's not what they wanted, they wanted all of it even if it meant deception to the very people they love.That statement is in direct conflict with what Jenny Boylan had said earlier. What she said about trying to protect those she loved was proven to be nothing more than pomposity and totally false, she and Caitlyn both were protecting themselves and in the process hurting those they love the most.

 

"I wouldn't date a guy with ****"  Kris says 'really? you can go out for a drink you don't have to have sex'.  Caitlyn is saying that she would date a guy but that guy has to have transitioned into a female also.  Caitlyn is lesbian but only with another transgender lesbian.

 I thought Cait said she would have sex with a man only if she (Cait) had undergone sex reassignment surgery. 

 

The ladies in the group seem to be divided between  those who desire to have the full reassignment surgery and those who don't feel it is necessary. I do think Cait will ultimately undergo the surgery. 

Edited April 11, 2016 by iwasish

[RHJunkie]

"I wouldn't date a guy with ****"  Kris says 'really? you can go out for a drink you don't have to have sex'.  Caitlyn is saying that she would date a guy but that guy has to have transitioned into a female also.  Caitlyn is lesbian but only with another transgender lesbian.

I took it to mean that she (Cait) wouldn't date a man unless she had reassignment surgery. Thinking back to the comment, it can be taken either way.

 

I believe Kris when she said that Cait was not forthcoming about her situation. Cait is a horrible communicator. She says something thinking she's being clear but she's not being clear at all. Even something as simple as why they haven't kept in touch. Cait made it seem like she's reached out to Kris but she doesn't really keep up communication with her. When Kris went to visit she said that Cait went MIA and someone needed to check up on her.

 

TV doesn't show the whole story but based on the KUWTK and this show, it seems like it was trying on both their parts to be married to each other. Cait is so stubborn, Kris is demeaning (she spent a great deal of time making the other women laugh at Cait's expense) and they're both self-absorbed. I'm starting to wonder if their marriage lasted as long as it did because they managed to keep as much of themselves separate from one another.

[HumblePi]

I took it to mean that she (Cait) wouldn't date a man unless she had reassignment surgery. Thinking back to the comment, it can be taken either way.

That sort of makes more sense that Caitlyn wants to complete her transitioning with complete surgical sex reassignment and doesn't want to 'date' a man until she's ready sexually. It's hard to sift through the hidden meanings. But as someone said, it's natural for people to question what happens 'below the belt' to someone who is establishing a totally different sex and identity. And as (I think it was) Kate Bornstein said, it's natural for people to wonder about this. I just wish that Caitlyn Jenner could be more candid and put this question to rest once and for all and just come out with it and say that she wants surgically created female sex parts and have sexual relationships with men. I think that for Caitlyn, this would appear to be a proclamation of being 'gay' his entire life. It's not quite as simple as that because Bruce Jenner wasn't gay.

Edited April 11, 2016 by HumblePi

[millennium]

I don't believe Jenner will ever have the final surgery, because I don't believe Jenner is transsexual. 

Edited April 11, 2016 by millennium

[RHJunkie]

That sort of makes more sense that Caitlyn wants to complete her transitioning with complete surgical sex reassignment and doesn't want to 'date' a man until she's ready sexually. It's hard to sift through the hidden meanings. But as someone said, it's natural for people to question what happens 'below the belt' to someone who is establishing a totally different sex and identity. And as (I think it was) Kate Bornstein said, it's natural for people to wonder about this. I just wish that Caitlyn Jenner could be more candid and put this question to rest once and for all and just come out with it and say that she wants surgically created female sex parts and have sexual relationships with men. I think that for Caitlyn, this would appear to be a proclamation of being 'gay' his entire life. It's not quite as simple as that because Bruce Jenner wasn't gay.

Cait is also a traditionalist. Being more open minding to the idea of same sex marriage hasn't really deterred her from the belief that marriage is between a man and a woman. Perhaps in her mind she can't accept being with a man as a 'heterosexual relationship' until she fully transitions. Or maybe she always had a gay or bisexual preference and isn't ready to admit that. I think it's possible that she's dealing with her own insecurities of not fully understanding herself just yet. So far, the only time she's mentioned wanting to be with a man was only in the context of it making her feel more like a woman to do so. Truthfully, I question what kind of education Cait seeks out beyond what she learns when filming this show with the other women.

 

ETA: So far, everything about Cait's concept of being and feeling like a woman seems totally superficial. Maybe I haven't read up on all of her interviews or something, but her context of being a woman always seemed tied to wanting to dress up and not necessarily about 'feeling' a certain way. Again, I could be wrong as I can't say that I've followed every Cait source where she's discussed the topic.

Edited April 11, 2016 by RHJunkie

[ClareWalks]

It is interesting to me that Kris seems to think Cait NEEDS to date or be in a relationship. Who has Kris dated lately? I don't pay attention to her, so as far as I know she has been single for a while. Nobody, particularly a person who has just changed their life significantly, should be pressured to date anyone. 

[iwasish]

It is interesting to me that Kris seems to think Cait NEEDS to date or be in a relationship. Who has Kris dated lately? I don't pay attention to her, so as far as I know she has been single for a while. Nobody, particularly a person who has just changed their life significantly, should be pressured to date anyone. 

Kris is involved with Corey now, as a paid employee or a real relationship I don't know. But none of the Kardashian  ladies seem to long without a man. Kourtney was still pulling her life together and worrying about her kids and Kris, Khloe and Kim were talking to her about revenge bodies and finding her happiness (meaning a man). Didn't take Khloe long to move on from Lamar or Kim from Kris H..

 

But its not just Kris and Ko.  The ladies on the bus obsess about it also  Candis seems almost desperate for ... I guess a man's validation that she's attractive and desirable. But they seem to want that from cisgender men and I think realistically that's not going to happen. There is a segment of men who are attracted to trans women, Caitlyn has met them before, at least once when she was dressed up while out on a speaking engagement.     Why don't the ladies look for love where its more likely to be found, instead of facing rejection and possibly worse over and over again.?

Edited April 11, 2016 by iwasish

[Sir RaiderDuck OMS]

I don't believe Jenner will ever have the final surgery, because I don't believe Jenner is transsexual. 

You think she's gone through publicly coming out as a woman and facial feminization surgery (and maybe breast implants) as part of some big publicity stunt? Or do you mean Caitlyn Jenner is insane and just think's she's a trans?

[politichick]

I don't believe Jenner will ever have the final surgery, because I don't believe Jenner is transsexual. 

I also question whether Caitlyn will have the surgery because from what I've seen the only aspects of being a woman that she can relate to are tied to clothes, hair and makeup. 

[iwasish]

I also question whether Caitlyn will have the surgery because from what I've seen the only aspects of being a woman that she can relate to are tied to clothes, hair and makeup. 

I think ever since she heard Kate say "you don't want to be thought of as a freak", she's been realizing that much of society does indeed think of her as a freak. I think she may chose the surgery as the lesser of the two evils. Kylie and Kendall seem to accept her, as do her sons and other daughter, mom and sisters. I think the relationship with the Kardashians will cool as time goes by. Khloe who has always been her champion has suddenly taken to referring to her as "my step father/step dad". a description she very rarely used before, if ever, it's always been , "my dad", "just like my dad". "he raised me since I been 4" etc.

 

The other option is that she just fades into the Malibu sunset.

[millennium]

You think she's gone through publicly coming out as a woman and facial feminization surgery (and maybe breast implants) as part of some big publicity stunt? Or do you mean Caitlyn Jenner is insane and just think's she's a trans?

 

"A trans?"   Is that like "a homo?"

 

One can be transgender without being transsexual.   The term transsexual designates people who have penectomy and orchiodectomy (hope I spelled it right) surgery to make their bodies more closely conform to their psyches -- and, in many instances, so they can have more traditional sexual relations with the opposite sex.

 

While all transsexuals are transgender, not all transgender people are transsexual.   One can dress and live as another gender without having the irreversible surgery.

 

Jenner's conundrum is that while sex change surgery is grudgingly accepted as a fact of life in our society, the idea of an adult person who is designated as male at birth (God, I hate the GLAAD-speak) just suddenly putting on a dress and makeup and proclaiming "I'm a woman now" is not accepted, even though the courts see it that way.   The public seems to have decided that if a person's gonna do this, they have to do it all the way to be legitimate.    It almost seems like a test: "if you want to show us you're serious, have your penis removed, then we'll talk."

 

But the fact is, there are good reasons for not undergoing "gender confirmation" surgery -- like you can't afford it, you think the surgery is too risky, you fear never being able to orgasm again (a very real possibility), or dressing/living as your chosen gender is enough for you.

 

Jenner couldn't come out and say, "I just want to wear the clothes and be treated like a woman from now on" because society isn't there yet.  IMHO, she oversold it to make what she was doing acceptable to the public.  She gave the impression that she is transsexual, so now the public expects her to follow through.   To show them she's serious.

Edited April 11, 2016 by millennium

[TomGirl]

Very interesting perspective, millennium.

[notnowimbusy]

I have notice that as both Bruce & Cait, there is a tendency to be curt, abrupt and blurt something out and then end the discussion.   I seriously doubt he ever had a real discussion with Kris.   I find her story much more plausible.  Only because I don't think she would have accepted it, and certainly not have had two children.   What I do think is that she was well aware that Cait liked to dress in women's clothing, and perhaps she could accept his cross-dressing if it were kept very secret.   But I just can't believe at that time Bruce fully revealed any type of gender struggle.   When tensions ran high during the end of their marriage, I think that's when the idea of just admitting it fully to himself, and start the transition.   But, by then it was a marriage in trouble, and he never felt the need to inform her of anything.

 

We have friends who have been married for 40 years.   He loves to cross-dress.  Early on she accepted this.  He will go out, but she will not go with him.   Every year he goes with his adult (actually old guy) baseball team to playoffs, and at least one night he dresses up and puts on a performance.   But never when his wife is with him.   I think it's a similar relationship to what Bruce/Kris had.  Cross-dressing acceptable, as long as it wasn't around her, or the kids.

[iwasish]

I have notice that as both Bruce & Cait, there is a tendency to be curt, abrupt and blurt something out and then end the discussion. I seriously doubt he ever had a real discussion with Kris. I find her story much more plausible. Only because I don't think she would have accepted it, and certainly not have had two children. What I do think is that she was well aware that Cait liked to dress in women's clothing, and perhaps she could accept his cross-dressing if it were kept very secret. But I just can't believe at that time Bruce fully revealed any type of gender struggle. When tensions ran high during the end of their marriage, I think that's when the idea of just admitting it fully to himself, and start the transition. But, by then it was a marriage in trouble, and he never felt the need to inform her of anything.

We have friends who have been married for 40 years. He loves to cross-dress. Early on she accepted this. He will go out, but she will not go with him. Every year he goes with his adult (actually old guy) baseball team to playoffs, and at least one night he dresses up and puts on a performance. But never when his wife is with him. I think it's a similar relationship to what Bruce/Kris had. Cross-dressing acceptable, as long as it wasn't around her, or the kids.

But the kids knew, it was never discussed but they knew. And kept it a secret from mom all those years. That's a heavy load. And Kris made her kids, particularly Khloe a part of her affair, the one that broke up her and Rob Sr's marriage and according to Khloe devastated her father. Then Kim walks in on "Caitlyn" and runs to Kourtney, together they keep the secret. Kylie and Kendall also say they've known for years, yet felt the need to keep the secret. Sad. All that secret keeping, how can anyone ever really trust anyone when you grow up having to keep secrets.

[millennium]

We have friends who have been married for 40 years.   He loves to cross-dress.  Early on she accepted this.  He will go out, but she will not go with him.   Every year he goes with his adult (actually old guy) baseball team to playoffs, and at least one night he dresses up and puts on a performance.   But never when his wife is with him.   I think it's a similar relationship to what Bruce/Kris had.  Cross-dressing acceptable, as long as it wasn't around her, or the kids.

 

I have always thought that the public's attitude towards cross-dressing, etc. reflects an ugly truth about our society, one deeply rooted in misogyny.

 

Generally speaking, the public would be more approving if a husband cheated on his wife than if he were a cross-dresser or transgender.

 

The public would be more approving and sympathetic if a husband or father were an alcoholic or drug abuser than a cross-dresser or transgender.

 

The public would be more understanding if a husband or father regularly beat his wife instead of maybe borrowing her clothes.

 

The public would be more approving if a husband were remote and indifferent to his children -- even cruel to his children -- than it would be if he were a cross-dresser or transgender. 

 

The public would be more comfortable to discover that a man is a thief or an embezzler than a crossdresser or transgender.

 

And so on.

 

In the public's eyes, the worst thing a man could ever do or want (short of being a child molester) is to dream of being a woman.

 

What kind of supposedly civilized society holds women in such low esteem that it is deemed shameful for a man to want to be one?   Do we really think so little of our wives, mothers and sisters? 

Edited April 12, 2016 by millennium

[notnowimbusy]

Millennium, I agree completely.   With regards to our friends, I find it interesting that the many, many, in fact most  people who know him, have absolutely no problem with him cross-dressing.  I think, however, it is somewhat of an issue for his own wife.   And, the have come to a compromise about it.  And, it seems to have worked. 

[iwasish]

Watching the episode again. I think Kris was sloshed.

Is there less prejudice against a man who believes he is trapped in a woman's body? Is that less threatening in some way?

Edited April 12, 2016 by iwasish

[millennium]

Watching the episode again. I think Kris was sloshed.

Is there less prejudice against a man who believes he is trapped in a woman's body? Is that less threatening in some way?

 

I don't know.  

 

(You actually watched it twice?)

Edited April 12, 2016 by millennium

[GaT]

I just got around to watching & I actually liked this episode. Random thoughts:

 

I thought Caitlyn looked pretty in the wedding dress

 

It seemed like Kris got along with the other women better than she got along with Caitlyn, they all seemed to have the same opinion of Caitlyn & her opinions & opinionated way of expressing them. It was strange that Kris calls Caitlyn "Jenner" instead of Caitlyn, I wonder if it's easier to separate things that way for her?

 

Why didn't Kris ever take off that heavy cape? Isn't it warm in NOLA?

 

I still believe Kris' description of what happened instead of Caitlyn's. Caitlyn also said she told all the kids she was going to transition, but they were all surprised by it & had no idea. They knew about her dressing in women's clothing, but not that she wanted to be a woman. I think what Catelyn thinks she said & what she actually said are two different things.

 

Jenny Boylan cleaned up nice at the end.

[iwasish]

I don't know.

(You actually watched it twice?)

I know! But I had a few interruptions the first time and wanted to see the Kris/Cait face off.

[iwasish]

I just got around to watching & I actually liked this episode. Random thoughts:

I thought Caitlyn looked pretty in the wedding dress

It seemed like Kris got along with the other women better than she got along with Caitlyn, they all seemed to have the same opinion of Caitlyn & her opinions & opinionated way of expressing them. It was strange that Kris calls Caitlyn "Jenner" instead of Caitlyn, I wonder if it's easier to separate things that way for her?

Why didn't Kris ever take off that heavy cape? Isn't it warm in NOLA?

I still believe Kris' description of what happened instead of Caitlyn's. Caitlyn also said she told all the kids she was going to transition, but they were all surprised by it & had no idea. They knew about her dressing in women's clothing, but not that she wanted to be a woman. I think what Catelyn thinks she said & what she actually said are two different things.

Jenny Boylan cleaned up nice at the end.

Kris and the cape.. Like Jonathan she's copying Kims pregnancy coverup and trying to make it happen as a fashion statement.

I dont even know why Kris came along except as a ratings grab. I wish the two of them would just stop trying to make us all believe they're best buddies, cause it's clear they aren't.

Did Kris know how deep Caitlyns gender issue went? I don't think so. But I think she's refusing to admit that the cross dressing was no secret, and that it became more and more of an issue as time went by. The long hair, the pony tail, the fact that Caitlyn got thinner and thinner, the nail polish, it was all in the press too. He kept his toenails manicured and painted, she never saw them? I can't buy that she was that naive., but I also see that he was downplaying it.

[ClareWalks]

Kris calling Cait "Jenner" is probably something that dates back to their marriage or dating. Athletes often go by their last names with friends, although I am not sure how that all got started. It may be a carry-over from some playful repartee they used to have.

[Sister Boss]

I liked this episode, too!

 

And totally agree that the other women are a lot more interesting and likable than Cait.

 

I just can't with her.

 

I hope her 'girls' get their own show because I would watch it.

[millennium]

 

Why didn't Kris ever take off that heavy cape?

 

She's still waiting on a call from Zack Snyder.

[princelina]

Kris calling Cait "Jenner" is probably something that dates back to their marriage or dating. Athletes often go by their last names with friends, although I am not sure how that all got started. It may be a carry-over from some playful repartee they used to have.

Or she's just not comfortable with calling someone who was her husband "Caitlin" and "she".

[ClareWalks]

Or she's just not comfortable with calling someone who was her husband "Caitlin" and "she".

 

Well, sure. I honestly don't know, I never watched the Kardashians show so I don't know what their dynamic was like before or if the "Jenner" thing predated the transition.

[princelina]

Well, sure. I honestly don't know, I never watched the Kardashians show so I don't know what their dynamic was like before or if the "Jenner" thing predated the transition.

Me neither :)  I just think that's how I would feel if I were her!

[millennium]

Kris calling Cait "Jenner" is probably something that dates back to their marriage or dating. Athletes often go by their last names with friends, although I am not sure how that all got started. It may be a carry-over from some playful repartee they used to have.

 

Maybe Kris doesn't take Jenner seriously as a woman and thinks it's more about fame, money and publicity than gender dysphoria, and that's why she calls Jenner "Jenner" rather than "Caitlyn." 

 

The court may have decreed Jenner a woman, but the court has no jurisdiction over people's perception of her.

Edited April 13, 2016 by millennium

[ClareWalks]

Me neither :)  I just think that's how I would feel if I were her!

 

Yeah, it would be a bit much to ask for me to totally change the gender perception of a former spouse! Although I am coming perilously close to giving Kris Jenner any credit whatsoever, which I plan to avoid, LOL ;)

[bichonblitz]

Kris calling Cait "Jenner" is probably something that dates back to their marriage or dating. Athletes often go by their last names with friends, although I am not sure how that all got started. It may be a carry-over from some playful repartee they used to have.

Kris never, ever referred to Bruce (as he was back then) as "Jenner" on the Kardashian show. Yes, sadly enough, I have watched all the episodes of the Kartrashians. 

Edited April 14, 2016 by bichonblitz

[ClareWalks]

Kris never, ever referred to Bruce (as he was back then) as "Jenner" on the Kardashian show. Yes, sadly enough, I have watched all the episodes of the Kartrashians. 

 

Thanks for taking one for the team and watching that show. I watched every episode of "I Wanna Marry Harry," so I am in no position to judge you :)

[millennium]

Jennifer Boylan:

"The reason that I didn't tell my wife before we got married was because I wanted to protect the people that I loved, I didn't want to cause harm to the people I loved, I didn't want to be a source of trouble, I wanted to protect them and I wanted to stand between them and the trouble of the world."  

Caitlyn agrees "And that's exactly where I was"

 

 

IMO, that is the self-serving speech of a coward.

 

When you ask a person to marry you -- to spend their lifetime with you, to perhaps create children with you -- you have a moral obligation to tell her/him WHO YOU ARE.   Yes, it's scary.   Yes, you risk rejection and loss of the relationship.   But to enter marriage nurturing a secret like gender dysphoria is, in my book, worse than hiding a mistress.   Because gender dysphoria has equal, if not more, potential to destroy that relationship in the future than an affair would.

 

If there was ever a time in their lives when they should have "manned up," that was it.

Edited April 15, 2016 by millennium