S04.E18: Eleven-Fifty-Nine

[statsgirl]

I think SA's Oh noes face when Laurel tell him he is the love of her life will never not be funny to me.  It makes sense of the stilted reactions whenever Laurel pulled up the "as the only person who knows you so well" card if he's always afraid she'll start it up again.

 

I know that ultimately it was "closure" for them, but like a lot of other stuff with this show it seems like no one thought out how this all would come off, because knowing that SHE thought she was going to be okay when she unloaded makes it all look pathetic and ick. Especially since Oliver didn't say "we love you" when everyone else did, and his response to her laying her heart out there was, "Uh...why?" 

 

Whoever decided to have her go out like that should never write again, haha. 

The more I read, the more I think that it was the EPs FU to the shipping wars.  Look, we're going to give you Lauriver but then we're going to undercut it completely by having Laurel say that he was the love of her life but someone else is the love of his. It would have made far more sense for Laurel to say that she hopes she can find someone who will love her as much as he and Felicity love each other.

 

Although I think KC liked it because she always said that Laurel was a good person with a big heart and what's bigger than telling the love of your life too go be happy with another woman?

 

I thought of the one good thing about the way Laurel died.  In the flashforward in the season premier, Oliver says that he knows it's not his fault but it is his responsibility. And it turned out to be true because Laurel died to send Quentin a message DD keeps his promises.  It was not Oliver's fault but Quentin's for joining forces with DD in the first place.

 

The idol doohickey thing is missing a piece, Oliver knows it, and he also suspects that Andy is working for Dahrk.  So what does he do?  He leaves it lying around so Andy can find it.  This is too stupid for words.  Oliver should have been carrying that piece around in his underwear or something.

 

I am so sick of Damien Dahrk.  But unfortunately, the fact that Ruve is now mayor and the fact that they gave her the name of Neal McDonough's real life wife makes me think that he is sticking around for a while.

I now demand to see the scene where Oliver fishes the piece out of his underwear.

 

But really, there should have been two pieces he left out. Or was that stone the key piece that made it work?

 

I'm more likely to think that using the name of Neal McDonough's real wife means she'll be gone soon rather than later.  Pointing out that Oliver got 48% by a write-in vote probably means they will give him the job when she's gone.  (Really it just says what an idiot he is not to go back into the race but whatevahs.))

[calliope1975]

I think having Laurel's last scene to be with Lance would have moved me to tears.  Lance would have killed it.

 

He would have. Imagine him all happy that she survived and encouraging of her taking a job that removes her from danger. (Let's ignore that working for the evil bad guy would never have worked out well for anyone involved.) Lance talks about how he has both his daughters back, and that the universe gave him a second chance to be a good dad. Laurel talks about the future she wants for herself (sans Oliver because what? No.) Happy bonding times ensue. Then, bam, seizure, surprise turns to horror as she dies. Tears everywhere. Then Lance has to go tell TA what happened, but he can't because it's too much. Maybe Oliver helps him as he collapses because it is called Arrow. 

 

WTH - I don't really even like Laurel, and I just put more thought into her death than this show did.

[AyChihuahua]

Although I think KC liked it because she always said that Laurel was a good person with a big heart and what's bigger than telling the love of your life too go be happy with another woman?

I hate this so much (I don't mean you, I mean the idea) bc it's so incredibly condescending and kind of overreaching? Like she's all saintly giving him permission to move on, when his reaction should be "Um, yeah, I know...I did that years ago? But thanks, I guess?" When people give permission for stuff the other person doesn't need permission for, I find it super passive-aggressive, bc it kind of implies that the person would or should need or want that permission. Oliver CLEARLY does not. As others have mentioned, he turned down her kiss and PHYSICALLY PUSHED HER AWAY BC EWWWW COOTIES in S2. I believe it was 2.5. She needs to just back it up away from him.

 

God, imagine if she hadn't died, and kept trying to touch his face, etc., after telling him that. Oh lord the second-hand embarrassment.

[tangerine95]

It was really weird how she kept bringing up his relationship with Felicity while Felicity was either away or they were broken up and when he was like it's weird to talk about it with you she would say she has better insight because they were together lol.Like this whole thing casts such a hilarious light on their previous interactions though I don't think that was the intention since MG was saying in the post death interviews it was about making them better friends. I'm pretty sure that if she wasn't getting killed off she wouldn't have been allowed to bring up Olicity on the show at all like she wasn't in seasons 2 or 3 or be given any of those weird talks with Oliver.I doubt she would have had many scenes with him at all tbh but since they were killing her off I don't think they cared how it looks.

[ComicFan777]

Random question: How do you think Murmur eats with his lips sewn shut?

[statsgirl]

I assumed that it was a feeding tube, which is pretty ugh when you think about it.  But it also means he's never going to be able to brush his teeth and that's so ewwwwww

" When people give permission for stuff the other person doesn't need permission for, I find it super passive-aggressive, bc it kind of implies that the person would or should need or want that permission.

Isn't that kind of s1 and 2 Laurel?  Remember how she ignored Felicity and Diggle because they weren't important?

(thanks for not hating me)

[AyChihuahua]

I assumed that it was a feeding tube, which is pretty ugh when you think about it.  But it also means he's never going to be able to brush his teeth and that's so ewwwwww

Isn't that kind of s1 and 2 Laurel?  Remember how she ignored Felicity and Diggle because they weren't important?

(thanks for not hating me)

I hope you know what I meant. That it seems like a reasonable understanding of KC's thoughts, and it's her thoughts that I hate.

Edited April 8, 2016 by AyChihuahua

[catrox14]

 

God, imagine if she hadn't died, and kept trying to touch his face, etc., after telling him that. Oh lord the second-hand embarrassment.

 

 

I just imagined this.....

 

Oliver standing by Laurel's bed:

 

"Laurel, why are you telling me this now?"

 

Oliver internally:

/'Wait, what? Why are you telling me this? JFC ,I don't love you. I will never love you that way.

/...dawning awareness...JFC... She's going to be in the lair. OH GODS...she's going to talk about about my bones...and then try to touch my face again....

/Oliver's eyes find the pillow under Laurel's head

'NOOOO this can't be happening...NOOOOO"

/ Oliver wakes up in a cold sweat ......eyes darting frantically searching for his phone.

/ calls Diggle frantically  "Um guys.....Mission scrubbed. Laurel can take the job. Just get her the fuck out of Star City.  We'll fight Darkh another day."

Edited April 8, 2016 by catrox14

[bijoux]

^I don't think that would work. He still had the picture in this ep fb; and it wouldn't really add up with how she received him in the pilot and S1.

Plus he also had the photo when he came back home in the pilot. It makes no sense regardless of the hair.

[catrox14]

Plus he also had the photo when he came back home in the pilot. It makes no sense regardless of the hair.

 

Well, gee. You don't have to be that harsh. I already acknowledged y'alls points :( :(

[bijoux]

I really wasn't trying to be harsh, just stating facts.

[catrox14]

I really wasn't trying to be harsh, just stating facts.

 

LOL It was the "Makes no sense" that hurt....:(

[BkWurm1]

He looks terrified in that pic. Lol 

 

Is that what SA was trying to convey? Because I know he can look at friend with a softer look in his eyes that is not love with Sara/CL. I wonder if that's a character choice? Because from his facial reactions he looks in love with Felicity, that he deeply cares about Sara and is extremely uncomfortable around Laurel. 

Honestly (and it pains me to say it) I think the camera caught him still emoting over the picture (hence the furrowed brow) but the mouth twitch to me was his NOPE coming out unconsciously.  So he probably thought he still had touched and humbled on his face. 

 

I hope we don't find out during some flashbacks that there was more to them after Tommy died than we thought.

 

It would not surprise me if there was another moment where they tried to connect. Death does strange things to people.  Plus when they saw each other again, it always felt like they'd already settled some stuff between them.  I'm fine if he got in a goodbye before he left to go "skiing in Europe"  Didn't change things between them.  Would not surprise me if they slipped in an "I will always love you" (but not like that) in the flashback as well. 

 

 

I think in Arrow comics 1.5, it showed that on the way to save Laurel and subsequently Tommy at CNRI, he crashed his bike and saved someone on his way there.  He felt that if he didn't take the time to save a stranger, he would have made it on time to save Tommy.  Later, he went to to try to see Laurel, but she didn't want to see anyone.  He told Diggle that he felt super guilty about not making it on time to save Tommy and that his last conversation with Tommy was about Oliver sleeping with the woman Tommy loved, and then gave Diggle and Felicity severance pay and left for the island.

They don't have to retcon this.  They could just say that after he said goodbye to D&F he tried one more time to say goodbye to Laurel. 

I just imagined this.....

 

Oliver standing by Laurel's bed:

 

"Laurel, why are you telling me this now?"

 

Oliver internally:

/'Wait, what? Why are you telling me this? JFC ,I don't love you. I will never love you that way.

/...dawning awareness...JFC... She's going to be in the lair. OH GODS...she's going to talk about about my bones...and then try to touch my face again....

/Oliver's eyes find the pillow under Laurel's head

'NOOOO this can't be happening...NOOOOO"

 

I think you just outlined his motive for murder. 

Edited April 8, 2016 by BkWurm1

[catrox14]

Honestly (and it pains me to say it) I think the camera caught him still emoting over the picture (hence the furrowed brow) but the mouth twitch to me was his NOPE coming out unconsciously.  So he probably thought he still had touched and humbled on his face. 

 

 

It would not surprise me if there was another moment where they tried to connect. Death does strange things to people.  Plus when they saw each other again, it always felt like they'd already settled some stuff between them.  I'm fine if he got in a goodbye before he left to go "skiing in Europe"  Didn't change things between them.  Would not surprise me if they slipped in an "I will always love you" (but not like that) in the flashback as well. 

 

 

They don't have to retcon this so.  They could just say that after he said goodbye to D&F he tried one more time to say goodbye to Laurel. 

I think you just outlined his motive for murder. 

 

LOL HEY YOU CUT OFF the rest of my scene...that leaves out the murder LOL

[BkWurm1]

LOL HEY YOU CUT OFF the rest of my scene...that leaves out the murder LOL

Oh, I thought I cut out the part where it turned out to be all a dream. I was trying to make it a reality, lol. 

[nksarmi]

It's funny because the way they cut away really did leave it open for Oliver to have killed her. It could have made an interesting storyline - someone secretly chipped or brainwashed Oliver to do their bidding and the first test of it was Laurel's murder.  Then in season five, he keeps doing stranger and stranger things until they save him from the evil.

 

Anyway....I think I've figured out the EP's master place.  Create unification in the fanbase by pissing every faction off at the same time.  They accomplished it with the BM lie (well except for those few people who bought into the lie was ok thing) and now they've hit it out of the ballpark with Laurel's death.  Well guys, we can't make them all love the same thing but we can sure as hell make them all hate the same thing.  Well done!

[catrox14]

Oh, I thought I cut out the part where it turned out to be all a dream. I was trying to make it a reality, lol. 

 

Oh sorry I meant you cut out the part that took murder out of the equation because it was just a dream...LOL

[bijoux]

It's funny because the way they cut away really did leave it open for Oliver to have killed her. It could have made an interesting storyline - someone secretly chipped or brainwashed Oliver to do their bidding and the first test of it was Laurel's murder.  Then in season five, he keeps doing stranger and stranger things until they save him from the evil.

 

You mean Malcolm, right? Because why not do unto Oliver what he has unto Thea?

[catrox14]

 

The idol doohickey thing is missing a piece, O

 

I swear to gods..I keep reading this as "The idol hickey"..

 

which would be a lot more interesting to be sure. I'm thinking of this magical idol that flies around leaving hickeys on whomever touches it....

Edited April 8, 2016 by catrox14

[pootlus]

You lot are hilarious.  Oliver's internal monologue and then him killing Laurel to stop her bringing Loliver up again has me in fits of giggles.

Edited April 8, 2016 by pootlus

[Scribbles]

I waited to comment on this episdoe because who couldn't anticipate the boiling over of this four season brew online right? 

 

I was disappointed I got told Quentin punched Pike in the face and didn't see it.  That would be easy peasy to film and fun to see Quentin get a lick in on the guy who keeps shutting him down.

 

Diggle's words to Oliver about self pity were wrong and them catching Thea's reaction was great.

 

I hope someday when someone dis's Oliver for not telling all about Lian Yu he responds "If I told all before now would anyone believe it?"  Seriously, if he had come back and spilled the beans people would be certain he was nuts (magic, government conspiracies, Mirakuru .....).

 

Love that there is plenty of blame to toss around for LL being killed, DD's hand did the deed but he had lots of support (Murmur, Malcolm, Andy and more).  Sadly Diggle is gonna be weighed down with guilt, but he can blame Oliver for convincing him to give Andy another try right (please hear the snark).

 

Oliver was smart, he sensed trouble in how things were playing out but it wasn't enough.  Good play.

 

I have to ask:  how does a superheroes death become an issue of helplessness when the only way one is gonna die is if they are overpowered? 

[millennium]

You might be confusing Diggle with Damien Darkh who is the person that actually killed Laurel.

 

 

So Diggle who just wanted to believe in his little brother is more responsible for Laurel's death than the guy who killed her? 

 

Yup.   Team Arrow never should have been put in that position.   They were there because John Diggle demanded that everyone trust his brother as a stand-up guy despite evidence to the contrary.   Diggle's total lack of judgment and his pigheaded refusal to listen to Oliver sealed Laurel's death warrant.    At the very least, Diggle should be permanently removed from the team as a major liability.

 

Hopefully Laurel will come back, which isn't outside the realm of possibility when one has a time-traveling sister.

 

Then again, maybe it won't happen.   Fan-servicing writers tend to trump temporal mulligans.

[catrox14]

Yeah, just gonna agree to disagree that Laurel's death is ON John and John's head alone.

[LisaM]

All I kept thinking was...how far is it to the Lazarus Pit?

[Morrigan2575]

All I kept thinking was...how far is it to the Lazarus Pit?

The one that was destroyed in 403?

[Guest]

Can you imagine if they did put her in the pit though? She really would be having the same story beats as Sara.

[BkWurm1]

Hopefully Laurel will come back, which isn't outside the realm of possibility when one has a time-traveling sister.

 

Then again, maybe it won't happen.   Fan-servicing writers tend to trump temporal mulligans.

 

Frankly it was IMO fan service that kept her on the show as long as they did.  If she hadn't had the name...

[GirlvsTV]

Yup.   Team Arrow never should have been put in that position.   They were there because John Diggle demanded that everyone trust his brother as a stand-up guy despite evidence to the contrary.   Diggle's total lack of judgment and his pigheaded refusal to listen to Oliver sealed Laurel's death warrant.    At the very least, Diggle should be permanently removed from the team as a major liability.

 

Hopefully Laurel will come back, which isn't outside the realm of possibility when one has a time-traveling sister.

 

Then again, maybe it won't happen.   Fan-servicing writers tend to trump temporal mulligans.

Diggle obviously made a terrible mistake in trusting his brother, but every single person on Team Arrow was in that prison of their own free will. The writers really seemed to go out of their way to be clear that going out, 'one last time,' was a CHOICE Laurel made, knowing the risks involved. LL was well aware Oliver had reservations abt trusting Andy, she could have decided he was right and stayed at home, but she didn't. There are a lot of things I wished they handled differently around LL's demise, but I do appreciate they gave her some agency in her decision to fight against DD and Merlyn at the end.

[millennium]

Frankly it was IMO fan service that kept her on the show as long as they did.  If she hadn't had the name...

 

She's the Black Canary.   Long a vital part of the Green Arrow story.   The Black Canary belonged on the show.   IMO, she had a far greater stake in the Green Arrow canon, and more right to be there, than some other characters I could name.

Edited April 9, 2016 by millennium

[Sakura12]

Arrow does not need Black Canary to function. They are telling their own story their own way. Just like the various reboots and alternate Earth's do in the comics. Where in some Green Arrow has not even met Black Canary. 

 

Having said that Laurel Lance was never Black Canary in my eyes. She was just some character that happened to share her name. Otherwise she never once embodied what made the Black Canary, THE Black Canary. They did not do any disservice to me by killing off a character that never worked in this telling of Green Arrow's story. 

[millennium]

Arrow does not need Black Canary to function. They are telling their own story their own way. Just like the various reboots and alternate Earth's do in the comics. Where in some Green Arrow has not even met Black Canary. 

 

Having said that Laurel Lance was never Black Canary in my eyes. She was just some character that happened to share her name. Otherwise she never once embodied what made the Black Canary, THE Black Canary. They did not do any disservice to me by killing off a character that never worked in this telling of Green Arrow's story. 

 

I'm not a fan of the multiverse clause.

 

I would agree that the writers never did justice to the character.   Unfortunately, I think Black Canary was given shabby treatment and subjected to plot contortions like Sarah's death, the awkward passing of the torch, etc., so that other characters could be featured more prominently. 

[dtissagirl]

She's the Black Canary.   Long a vital part of the Green Arrow story.   The Black Canary belonged on the show.   IMO, she had a far greater stake in the Green Arrow canon, and more right to be there, than some other characters I could name.

Except the showrunners wanted to fire the actress playing the Black Canary. And that's when optimizing production will trump any kind of canon that previously existed, because if someone in the production is causing them problems, they need to be gone.

[Guest]

IMO, the only character that has a 'right' to be on this show is Oliver. This isn't the GA/BC show, thank god. This is Oliver's story. BC isn't needed to tell it.

[apinknightmare]

I haven't seen a because comics argument in so long. :*)

[millennium]

Except the showrunners wanted to fire the actress playing the Black Canary. And that's when optimizing production will trump any kind of canon that previously existed, because if someone in the production is causing them problems, they need to be gone.

 

I don't follow the behind the scenes stuff.   Just what I see on the screen.   Seems to me that if they had a troublesome actress, they could have replaced her with another actress rather than kill off the character.   YMMV.

Edited April 9, 2016 by millennium

[lemotomato]

I haven't seen a because comics argument in so long. :*)

One last time, as Laurel would say. ;) Edited April 9, 2016 by lemotomato

[millennium]

This is Oliver's story.

 

Sometimes it seems more like Batman's story.

Edited April 9, 2016 by millennium

[ComicFan777]

She's the Black Canary.   Long a vital part of the Green Arrow story.   The Black Canary belonged on the show.   IMO, she had a far greater stake in the Green Arrow canon, and more right to be there, than some other characters I could name.

 

It all boils down to your single reason of "because comics" that really rings hollow to me because the Laurel in the show has nothing special to really offer the team or to the Green Arrow.  Her canary collar can be worn by anyone who can scream.  Her fighting is not on par with the rest of the team.  She has no tactical or strategic skills.  What does she bring to the team or the Green Arrow that is vital other than extra muscle? She only carries the Black Canary name, without the skills to back it up. With a little training, I could imagine Curtis taking up the canary collar and being able to supersede Laurel's fighting skills and becoming a more effective Black Canary.

 

What role has Laurel really played in making the Green Arrow who he is today?  It is only recently that she was even his friend - up until this season, they could barely be in the same room as each other.  She has played no part in making Oliver the hero he is today.  

 

I don't want to sound harsh, but using "because the Black Canary is in Green Arrow comics" is a very poor reason to justify her right to continue to exist in the show because thus far, this version of Dinah Laurel Lance hasn't been vital to Green Arrow's journey in the tv show.  I think her death may influence Oliver's hero journey more than she ever did when she was alive.

[Guest]

Sometimes it seems more like Batman's story.

Eh. Call it what you want. It's still his story and he's still the lead. ;)

[AudienceofOne]

Firstly, Laurel was the Black Canary. That's a fact. Whether you liked her or not or felt the show did the arc justice or not is irrelevant. She was the Black Canary.

 

However, IMHO, this doesn't matter. The Black Canary has her own agency. She doesn't exist just to be Arrow's love interest or sidekick. Saying the Black Canary needs plot armour because she's the Black Canary implies she's just a romantic placeholder. This show is about telling the Green Arrow's story and that also exists apart from his relationship status.

 

My personal opinion is that Sara's Black Canary arc was far more compelling and that her death was therefore far more infuriating. But until they give us a halfway decent show about a female superhero we have to accept that these shows are about the male protagonist mentioned in the opening credits.

 

Personally, I would never have made it to this season if they'd insisted on forcing the romance between Oliver and Laurel while ignoring the fact that he and Felicity are just better together. The fact they course-corrected was a breath of fresh air. And whether or not they decide to kill off a character whose name happens to be the Black Canary should be considered narratively within this vehicle. The source texts simply shouldn't matter. If they did determine everything then... why make a TV show about the character at all? You could just read the comics.

Edited April 9, 2016 by AudienceofOne

[grandemocha]

.

Edited April 9, 2016 by grandemocha

[grandemocha]

Sometimes it seems more like Batman's story.

LMFAO...Thank you. Couldn't have said it better myself.

[BunsenBurner]

The stabbing of BC by GA's arrow has got to have something to do with how Team Arrow is going to take down DD and his ghosts. How did GA manage to pull that arrow and shoot it at DD when they were all frozen? DD was impressed and wondered how he did it, IMO. Is his tattoo going to be a part of the take down?

 

The fact that the doctors put LL in a room after losing a lot of blood, the doctor's words (how she would know this without questioning GA I don't know), and left and  having surgery and not putting her in ICU after the surgery is crazy. The trying to revive her with the pads on top of her gown was dumb. She probably in a real situation wouldn't even have had anything on when she was put in the room except for a sheet or cover. Later she would. Seems too soon. Also want to say that taking her to the 'bunker' might have saved her, okay maybe not.

 

I thought LL dying was great for Team Arrow. They are being shown that one of their own can die. This has been needed for quite some time. Killing the relatives and killing their enemies doesn't work. It hurts but the fact that one of their own is dead could destroy them. They always managed to live, which is fine on the other CW shows because they are either meta-humans or they have Gideon to put them back together, but Team Arrow are just humans with no superpowers and they can die. Even Felicity's almost death and the resulting paralysis doesn't affect them in the same way because she lived and walked again. This death should make them cautious again and make their fights be better and smarter.  My hope at least.

 

I think KC went out as she came in. I have said from the beginning she should have been replaced after the pilot. Her run on Arrow was meh at her best.  

[Sakura12]

To me they never seemed interested in telling Laurel's story as BC. As evidenced by them giving most of comic BC's story to Sara. Then they killed Sara for Laurel but even then she was given her comic name in anger, not for being heroic or taking that name herself. We also have the writers saying they always planned on raising Sara from the dead. Which they did and are enjoying the hell out of writing for her on LoT. Where Sara is basically Black Canary who wears a white costume sometimes. 

 

Laurel's BC was never important to the writers so she was never important to me. 

[catrox14]

I don't follow the behind the scenes stuff.   Just what I see on the screen.   Seems to me that if they had a troublesome actress, they could have replaced her with another actress rather than kill off the character.   YMMV.

 

And a lot of peeps would be angry at a recast because they had Sara already. Maybe they should just rename Sara as Laurel. That would work.

 

 

Sometimes it seems more like Batman's story.

 

And this has always been the case, which is why BC was a problem in this show. But I'll take it to the Mind Your Surroundings thread...

Edited April 9, 2016 by catrox14

[AudienceofOne]

And a lot of peeps would be angry at a recast because they had Sara already. Maybe they should just rename Sara as Laurel. That would work.

 

 

And this has always been the case, which is why BC was a problem in this show. But I'll take it to the Mind Your Surroundings thread...

 

Or have Alex Kingston put on the mask, which would be fucking awesome. However, the likelihood of having a kickass mature woman on a show like this is about zero so I'm thinking... cousin or secret sister. Yeah, not really. That would be lame. Sara should have Cold's baby, call it Dinah and it can grow up to be the new BC training with Mum and Dad and Uncle Oliver.

[statsgirl]

I'd love to see Queen Bouddacia kicking ass again.

I don't follow the behind the scenes stuff.   Just what I see on the screen.   Seems to me that if they had a troublesome actress, they could have replaced her with another actress rather than kill off the character.   YMMV.

I know we like to call Arrow a soap opera but recasting the role of Laurel Lance with another actress would truly make it one, and I think turn off a lot more viewers than killing her will.  (I can't think of any evening show that recast a character with another actor.)  It's hard enough to adapt when Dr. Who regenerates and I'm expecting that.

 

I grew up with Superman and Lois Lane, and Batman and Green Lantern.  I had barely heard of the Green Arrow or the Black Canary.  I don't remember why I tuned in to the pilot but I remember being bored because I couldn't connect to any of the characters. It wasn't until the Team Arrow of Oliver/Diggle/Felicity jelled that I became a committed viewer, even to buying the comics and assorted merchandise.  Laurel Lance never drew me in and her arcs were more of an annoyance than anything.

 

In the end, show business is just that, a business.  In my opinion, Katie Cassidy's Laurel Lance didn't do justice to who many remember the Black Canary representing.  I think to recast the role or distort the story they are telling to turn her into it more would weaken what they have and lose viewers like me.  It's all just a business decision.

Edited April 9, 2016 by statsgirl

[AyChihuahua]

I like Alex Kingston just fine, but turning a middle-aged college professor with, as far as we know, ZERO martial arts training, into a vigilante too, would pretty much make the top of my head blow off. It was bad enough when a 29-year-old attorney did it.

 

I don't think they need a Black Canary at all, and never really did, so I hope they drop it. Sara can visit, Nyssa can visit, this new girl can (maybe, I found the actress very irritating on Spn), but a show about the Green Arrow doesn't need other major superheroes as regulars.

Edited April 9, 2016 by AyChihuahua

[EmilyBettFan]

What people seem to forget is that most of this story is based on Oliver's 5 years of survival as one aspect of the story. Which is a pretty big aspect. Laurel serves little purpose here other then that photo he carried around. He carried that photo around while banging different women.

Then Oliver came home and formed a team around him that once again did not involve Laurel. Can you tell me again how and why Laurel is important because I've never seen it. Sara was more important to Oliver's journey and his team that he chose. He never chose Laurel to be on his team. She weaseled her way in.

Edited April 9, 2016 by EmilyBettFan

[AudienceofOne]

I like Alex Kingston just fine, but turning a middle-aged college professor with, as far as we know, ZERO martial arts training, into a vigilante too, would pretty much make the top of my head blow off.

 

I'm getting the unfortunate impression you thought I was serious...