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S05.E05: Queen For Two Days

AmandaPanda

By AmandaPanda
in Girls [V]

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Hecate7

Hecate7

I know that Hannah is generally a self-centred person, but IMO she was not being selfish when she stopped her sexual encounter with the yoga teacher, no matter abrupt and inconvenient the timing may have been. She was feeling uncomfortable/overwhelmed, she verbalised her desire to stop, and then she stopped. Considering the importance of consent in the current discourse on sexual activity, I think she did the right thing, and I certainly don't think she should have continued to do something that she did not want to do, just to please her partner.

 

 

Maybe.

 

It just reminded me of that kid who gets off the seesaw while the other kid is still up in the air, so that they get the wind knocked out of them from the abrupt fall. I could understand breaking contact if the phone were ringing, someone walked in, if you were late to work or suddenly in pain or had to vomit or something. Or if you were afraid that letting the other person climax would get you pregnant. 

 

I don't get what Hannah's hangup suddenly was. Things were no different than they had been a second before. I just feel sorry for the instructor. Now she's going to expect the other person to break off. She's going to doubt her ability to recognize someone's interest. She's probably going to have a lot of trouble climaxing, if she didn't already, because she's not going to trust the other person to finish and moreover she's going to be worried the whole time that she's gross and they don't want to.

 

Plus now Hannah has already cheated on Fran. I hope he's cheated on her, too, but probably not. I guess this is STILL payback for the girls on his phone? How much revenge does Hannah need?

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SassInMass
SassInMass

I truly believe that when Yoshi mentioned that they would give each other their virginities, Shoshonna suddenly realized that she was in fact running from her problems. She wasn't honest with Yoshi, a

jenh526
jenh526

I loved the whole storyline of Shoshanna, and the end scene was very poignant. I think I've had nightmares like that.   Adam and Jessa seem right together. Much better match than Adam and Hannah, IM

Accidental Martyr
Accidental Martyr

I guess she decided that Adam was sponge-worthy.

Hecate7

Hecate7

I feel sorry for the instructor too, but I don't think badly of Hannah for stopping when she felt uncomfortable. It was just really unfortunate timing.

 

 

It was unfortunate. But I think what actually made Hannah feel uncomfortable was that the other person was having a good time. I think if the other woman had been bored or wanted to stop, Hannah would suddenly have gotten interested and inventive. Sort of reverse psychology. Since the other woman was about to climax, Hannah suddenly couldn't stand it another minute. She obviously had been down there for quite some time, or the other party wouldn't have been anywhere near ready.

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chocolatine

chocolatine

I'm still not sure how I feel about the cunnilingus interruptus. On the one hand, I think that it's common courtesy to ... ahem ... finish what you've started. On the other, I  think that nobody should have to continue having sex if they're feeling discomfort or pain. The position Hannah was in did look very uncomfortable. Maybe she started to feel like she was going to have a panic attack, had trouble breathing, or something like that.

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Evangeline

Evangeline

(edited)

I know that Hannah is generally a self-centred person, but IMO she was not being selfish when she stopped her sexual encounter with the yoga teacher, no matter abrupt and inconvenient the timing may have been. She was feeling uncomfortable/overwhelmed, she verbalised her desire to stop, and then she stopped. Considering the importance of consent in the current discourse on sexual activity, I think she did the right thing, and I certainly don't think she should have continued to do something that she did not want to do, just to please her partner.

This. I'm surprised at all the sympathy for the instructor. She can (and did) take care of herself. Hannah doesn't owe her anything.

 

Between having someone stop short and having someone continue with a sex act she's uncomfortable with and no longer wants to do...it seems obvious to me what the courteous outcome is.

 

That said, given how shocked people in this thread seem to be at someone not finishing what they started...perhaps I've been dating the wrong men.

Edited by Evangeline
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Hecate7

Hecate7

I don't blame Hannah at all for stopping. She had said how hot it was. Plus she was in that awkward position doing something she'd never done before. I think she may have come across as selfish because she wasn't really into it. That doesn't mean she was being selfish.

 

I don't blame her for stopping per se. I blame her for the timing. She could have stopped sooner, and probably should have. And if the other girl weren't into it or wanted to stop, I get the feeling Hannah would have insisted on continuing. Because Hannah IS selfish. When have we ever seen Hannah not be selfish? Have we ever seen her not do exactly the opposite of whatever it was the other person wanted her to do? Selfish is Hannah's middle name.

 

It isn't always wrong to be selfish, but Hannah really is. Hannah only ever does what Hannah wants, and she does not care one bit about her effect on others. She spits her food out on the table others will be eating from, asks for references at someone's funeral, and walks away in the middle of sex SHE initiated. What she did with that woman, is exactly what she did with Ohio, with the magazine job, with the book contract, with the blog, with Fran...I think the scene is there to show that Hannah isn't capable of thinking about someone else, even for thirty seconds.

 

Did anyone else think it was really bizarre of Hannah to initiate sex with this woman? She's never had a lesbian thought in her head before. What was even up with that?

represent

represent

(edited)

 

I don't blame Hannah at all for stopping. She had said how hot it was. Plus she was in that awkward position doing something she'd never done before. I think she may have come across as selfish because she wasn't really into it. That doesn't mean she was being selfish.

Ah, I don't blame her one bit. If the sex is uncomfortable or you want to stop for any reason, then so be it.  She gave warning I think at least twice about how it ws too hot and she needed to stop. Not to mention, it's not like this girl was her girlfriend, she was a complete stranger, a hook up. 

 

Hannah is selfish, but I surely don't care about her follow through on the giving in this situation. She wasn't trying to be mean, it just got uncomfortable, it sure as hell looked that way from my vantage point.

Did anyone else think it was really bizarre of Hannah to initiate sex with this woman? She's never had a lesbian thought in her head before. What was even up with that?

 

She didn't look like the initiator to me. That girl was hitting on her from the getgo, which I'm not sure she fully picked up on at first. Then, once in the sauna she dropped her from that position, body parts were touching and it went from there, with Hannah pausing to say she had never done anything with a woman. I don't find that to be Hannah initiating but...

Edited by represent
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Hecate7

Hecate7

Ah, I don't blame her one bit. If the sex is uncomfortable or you want to stop for any reason, then so be it.  She gave warning I think at least twice about how it ws too hot and she needed to stop. Not to mention, it's not like this girl was her girlfriend, she was a complete stranger, a hook up. 

 

Hannah is selfish, but I surely don't care about her follow through on the giving in this situation. She wasn't trying to be mean, it just got uncomfortable, it sure as hell looked that way from my vantage point.

She didn't look like the initiator to me. That girl was hitting on her from the getgo, which I'm not sure she fully picked up on at first. Then, once in the sauna she dropped her from that position, body parts were touching and it went from there, with Hannah pausing to say she had never done anything with a woman. I don't find that to be Hannah initiating but...

 

Maybe I'm remembering the scene wrong. I'll have to rewatch, but I remember being really, really surprised when Hannah, who was up on her arms in a kind of cobra above the other woman, swooped down and started the kissing. Until that long clinch started, I don't consider sex to have been initiated. Hitting on someone isn't the same as initiating sex. It's just asking, "do you wanna?" Initiating is when you start the physical contact that is unmistakably foreplay.

represent

represent

(edited)

No, the girl was holding Hannah up in the air via her feet, she then released the pose and Hannah fell on top of her.

Hannah never swooped down on the girl. Now she could have immediately rolled off of her, but at that point they both seem to sending signals that the current close positions of their bodies was desired. That's how I read the scene.

Edited by represent
Hecate7

Hecate7

(edited)

No, the girl was holding Hannah up in the air via her feet, she then released the pose and Hannah fell on top of her.

Hannah never swooped down on the girl. Now she could have immediately rolled off of her, but at that point they both seem to sending signals that the current close positions of their bodies was desired. That's how I read the scene.

 

 

Actually, no. http://www.afterellen.com/tv/480031-hannah-hooks-woman-girlsI rewatched the scene, and Hannah, after landing, raised herself up on her arms to talk for a bit, then lowered herself to the woman's face and began kissing her, not as hotly as I had remembered--in fact, the first kiss was next to the mouth, not on it, but why kiss her at all? On about the third kiss the woman began to respond with some intensity. It was Hannah who decisively turned the encounter sexual instead of simply playful and flirty. I guess she was curious? Or what was that?

 

And why do so many articles have it wrong that it's Lena Dunham breaking down after the cunilingus? It's not. It's the yoga instructor. Like, two articles have it right. http://www.refinery29.com/2016/03/106454/girls-hannah-lesbian-sex-scene. 

 

I have a new theory about the tears, though. I think the instructor recognizes that she was pushing Hannah, trying to force her to continue, and is ashamed that she didn't care about Hannah's consent. And Hannah's always gonna know.

Edited by Hecate7
Cherpumple

Cherpumple

I just thought her tears were part of the emotional release of the orgasm, and had nothing to do with Hannah. To me, it just looked like an awkward and ridiculous scene, mostly played for laughs, and on top of everything else, Hannah found herself with a woman who burst into tears when she had an orgasm, which made the whole situation even more awkward. When I've seen the "crying orgasm" trope used before, it seems to either be played for awkward humor, or to show that the character is having a cathartic moment. In this case, it seemed like the former to me.

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chocolatine

chocolatine

those are the first words covered in most classes and books, but a lot of teachers begin with a few dirty words or expressions in order to get kids' attention.

Maybe some do, but I think "a lot" is an exaggeration. I have studied seven languages at different points in my life, and not once has a teacher started off with dirty words.

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Hecate7

Hecate7

Maybe some do, but I think "a lot" is an exaggeration. I have studied seven languages at different points in my life, and not once has a teacher started off with dirty words.

 

Probably I'm dating myself--in my day it was the best way to get a kid's attention, and so we learned "merde" and the chorus to Lady Marmalade, in French, before Bonjour. Ditto Spanish, Russian, German, etc...we all knew punta before we knew anything else in Spanish. Of course, none of this actually gives you the language to talk politely about sex. I was making a joke and it didn't land because I'm old and no one remembers what I'm talking about. It's like that joke in Blackadder III, when Dr. Samuel Jonson (Robbie Coltrane) asks indignantly if Prince George and his servants have been just looking up dirty words in the dictionary. Blackadder deadpans, "why not? It's what all the others will be used for." I laughed because I remembered 1st and 2nd graders doing just that, when I was little. But it probably wouldn't happen now.

DangerousMinds

DangerousMinds

I, too, find the discussions about whether or not someone's level of conventional attractiveness determines the level of realism of the sex scenes ridiculous. Attraction is much, much more complicated than that and people are just projecting their own superficiality with that kind of talk.

Or their age, in my experience.

I guess she decided that Adam was sponge-worthy.

It had to be said!!!

DangerousMinds

DangerousMinds

I was going to say the same thing. If I was uncertain about how my sister/family member would use the money, then I would pay a semester's tuition and see what the grades were before paying for another. Then again, I kind of use the same technique when someone asks for money outside the grocery store. I'll ask them what they need, and will buy that item for them. Occasionally, and not a full week's worth of groceries, I'm not rolling in dough.

You are wonderful!

No, that would be stupid. Why would you ever choose student loan debt and perpetual angry phone calls whenever you lose your job, over...just not having those? I suppose if you love poverty, drama, and agony, maybe...but I think real growth would be if she just got the degree and was grateful to Adam.

 

 

 

I thought the issue was that Jessa wasn't able to get loans, because she is not an American citizen. I think accepting Adam's offer to pay for her schooling at this point would be a bad idea. Maybe a year down the line, if they are still together. And definitely one semester at a time.

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guilfoyleatpp

guilfoyleatpp

(edited)

I feel that the discussion of whether or not Hannah was being discourteous or not in breaking off the experience just prior to orgasm is exactly the type of experience that Lena likes to challenge with this show.

 

Your initial response is "that's fucked." But then the non-lizard brain in you kicks in with "she has every right to do it." It's such a nuanced thing...Lena, oops I mean Hanna, is a selfish jerk whose motivations are always murky. It's the idea of consent. Hannah consented to the experience to a certain point and then she was just done. It's such a complicated, fraught subject.

 

Hannah is the girl who is slightly dramatic and who in college would tell you a story of how she was taken advantage of and you think "wow, that sucks" and then "huh, I wonder if it really happened that way" and then "I'm a jerk for doubting her, but..."

 

It feels like the entire idea of the show sometimes is to make the audience feel really uncomfortable. And I often do.

Edited by guilfoyleatpp
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Willowy

Willowy

I was really bummed out by Shoshanna's decision to go back. I was really enjoying her immersive experience and her love affair with Japan. And Yoshi! What a sweet puppy-man! How could she just ditch him? She should've just told him the truth (without going into detail) that she wasn't a virgin and put the ball in his court. If he didn't want to see her any more over THAT? Then Yoshi was a turd and she could've gone home knowing that instead of just jilting him.

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