Selina Kyle: Purrrfect casting or a Cat-tastrophy?

[Kromm]

 

Played by the rather exotic looking and very well coifed Camren Bicondova, who's only previous credits are some movie called "Battlefield America" (some kind of kid-oriented dance movie) and a slasher film called "Girlhouse".

How does the future Catwoman fits into James Gordon's early world?  Unknown. But it's a fairly good guess she's some kind of juvenile delinquent he runs into.  Nice touch in the promo photo using the skyscrapers to suggest cat ears. The crazy hair is all the actresses' own, as shown by her IMDB photo:

Edited April 6, 2014 by Kromm

[Turkish]

I've seen other pictures of Camren and IMO she really looks like a baby Michelle Pfeiffer. She also comes from a dance background so I'm sure they will have her doing some stunt work. I'm really looking forward to seeing if she can actually pull this role off. 

[Kromm]

I've seen other pictures of Camren and IMO she really looks like a baby Michelle Pfeiffer. 

IMO this girl looks more like a real life version of an anime character than anyone I've seen in years.

Even with a haircut that's less... wide... it's still got this unearthly volume.

Edited April 6, 2014 by Kromm

[Chip]

it looks like the images linked to imdb are not working.

[Kromm]

it looks like the images linked to imdb are not working.

No clue on that, but just in case its something inherent about IMDB, they're now coming from a different location.

[Chip]

I think she can make a great Selena. I'm curious now about the

age difference between her and Bruce. Isn't he supposed to be around 8 in this show?

[Kromm]

I think she can make a great Selena. I'm curious now about the

age difference between her and Bruce. Isn't he supposed to be around 8 in this show?

If it matters,

I don't think she's any older than 13.

 

EDIT - And... I'd be wrong about that.  It's not listed anywhere obvious, but a few clever google searches reveal

she's 15.

Edited April 6, 2014 by Kromm

[MarkHB]

IMO this girl looks more like a real life version of an anime character than anyone I've seen in years.

Even with a haircut that's less... wide... it's still got this unearthly volume.

She looks more like a cat in that photo than either of my cats do.

So far as the spoilered discussion goes,

David Mazouz, the young man from Touch who will be playing Bruce Wayne, turned 14 at the end of February per WP.  So, I think the "8 years old" thing will be out the window, and also observe that he and Camren are close enough in age that the traditional Bruce-Selina relationship should work fine.

You know, if they play this that Bruce and Selina know each other through their teen years.... I think I really like that angle.

[Kromm]

She looks more like a cat in that photo than either of my cats do.

It's some weird combo of that big ass hair, eyes that are Anime Big, odd (not unappealing though) eyebrows... maybe even the nose/chin/mouth are slightly odd.

[MarkHB]

Here's her official character bio from WB:

Selina Kyle/the future Catwoman (acting newcomer Camren Bicondova): Selina is a teenage orphan who is suspicious and wholly unpredictable. A street thief and skilled pickpocket, she’s dangerous when cornered.

The nice thing about Selina is that she's a character you can do a lot with.  Obviously, there tends to be lots of UST between her and Bruce going back to her first appearance in 1940 (although hopefully not at the age they're at in this show :), while at the same time she doesn't kill people, so she's not irredeemable.

[Kromm]

Here's her official character bio from WB:

Selina Kyle/the future Catwoman (acting newcomer Camren Bicondova): Selina is a teenage orphan who is suspicious and wholly unpredictable. A street thief and skilled pickpocket, she’s dangerous when cornered.

The nice thing about Selina is that she's a character you can do a lot with.  Obviously, there tends to be lots of UST between her and Bruce going back to her first appearance in 1940 (although hopefully not at the age they're at in this show :), while at the same time she doesn't kill people, so she's not irredeemable.

In some versions she's had no problem at all killing people.  We can't assume 100% she won't here. 

Also, even if she's not irredeemable she IS fated.  She's inherently on the way to becoming a criminal, albeit one who later in her career in many versions was more of a Robin Hood.

[MarkHB]

In some versions she's had no problem at all killing people.  We can't assume 100% she won't here. 

Also, even if she's not irredeemable she IS fated.  She's inherently on the way to becoming a criminal, albeit one who later in her career in many versions was more of a Robin Hood.

 

It's telling (at least to me) that all of her Silver Age stories where she was a murderess have been retconned by DC to "Earth-B," home of continuity errors.  In more-recent comic stories and both major movie series, she wasn't a murderer, although IIRC in "Dark Knight Rises" she did kill Bane to save Batman's life, when he refused (or was unable) to do it.

[Danny Franks]

I said this about her in the TwOP thread, but I think this girl looks like she'll make a great Selina. I loved the shot of her in the outfit reminiscent of the goggles costume.

 

And while I hate the idea of Kid Bruce Wayne, Kid Selina could work really well as a reprobate young thief who Gordon and Bullock run into all the time. I like the idea of them trying to get her to reform and behave, and her just being deaf to their entreaties. It could be a fun relationship, based on growing affection that's veiled by antagonism.

 

Sadly, now that Kid Bruce Wayne is always going to be around, I imagine most of her scenes will be with him, so they can play up the Batman/Catwoman relationship.

[Kromm]

This is pretty much a complete Catwoman, not even a proto one.  The outfit is all the way there.

 

And a bit of the real girl (the actress) and her personality.

 

[Tenshinhan]

I miss the traditional purple outfit...

 

But they did a good job with this design.  And I like the look of this actress.

[Agent Dark]

I miss the traditional purple outfit...

 

But they did a good job with this design.  And I like the look of this actress.

I don't.  The Darwyn Cooke redesign for Ed Brubaker's Catwoman relaunch (Catwoman Volume 3 which started in 2002 and lasted 82 issues through to 2008) remains the best imo.  Cooke was the one that introduced the goggles and zip up jacket in an all black colour scheme.  It was also probably the best run of the Catwoman comic as well - Brubaker gave the stories a more 'noir' feel to them, with Catwoman being firmly portrayed as an anti-hero rather than a villain like she had previously.

 

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_large/0/4/45063-7328-52123-1-catwoman.jpg

 

The Catwoman design here is definitely taking most of its cues from the Cooke design. 

[MarkHB]

I miss the traditional purple outfit...

 

But they did a good job with this design.  And I like the look of this actress.

 

 

I don't.  The Darwyn Cooke redesign for Ed Brubaker's Catwoman relaunch (Catwoman Volume 3 which started in 2002 and lasted 82 issues through to 2008) remains the best imo.  Cooke was the one that introduced the goggles and zip up jacket in an all black colour scheme.  It was also probably the best run of the Catwoman comic as well - Brubaker gave the stories a more 'noir' feel to them, with Catwoman being firmly portrayed as an anti-hero rather than a villain like she had previously.

 

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_large/0/4/45063-7328-52123-1-catwoman.jpg

 

The Catwoman design here is definitely taking most of its cues from the Cooke design. 

 

I'm sorry, but were you saying you don't miss the purple outfit (I'm with you there), or that you don't like the look of the new actress?

[Danny Franks]

I don't.  The Darwyn Cooke redesign for Ed Brubaker's Catwoman relaunch (Catwoman Volume 3 which started in 2002 and lasted 82 issues through to 2008) remains the best imo.  Cooke was the one that introduced the goggles and zip up jacket in an all black colour scheme.  It was also probably the best run of the Catwoman comic as well - Brubaker gave the stories a more 'noir' feel to them, with Catwoman being firmly portrayed as an anti-hero rather than a villain like she had previously.

 

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_large/0/4/45063-7328-52123-1-catwoman.jpg

 

The Catwoman design here is definitely taking most of its cues from the Cooke design. 

 

Yep. I love Cooke's design. The goggles, the black, almost practical looking catsuit, the relative subtlety of the cat motif, rather than 'she's got ears and a tail and claws'. Cooke's Selina actually looks like a cat-burglar rather than like a crazy costumed villain, and I think that gave the character a lot more gravitas and allowed her to be taken more seriously as an equal to Batman.

[Agent Dark]

I'm sorry, but were you saying you don't miss the purple outfit (I'm with you there), or that you don't like the look of the new actress?

 

Oh, the purple outfit.  I think the actress looks fine, but I'm going to reserve any other judgement until I've seen the show.

[millennium]

It's telling (at least to me) that all of her Silver Age stories where she was a murderess have been retconned by DC to "Earth-B," home of continuity errors. 

Those assholes at DC ought to be tarred and feathered.

As for the actress, I'm wondering how many potentially better actresses were turned away simply because they don't look like a cat.

[The Crazed Spruce]

Don't know about you, but I'm waiting to see her perform before I pass judgment on her acting ability.

[Chip]

I think she looks good for the part! I've never seen her act, but the level of actors in other roles is pretty good, so I don't seem why they would have skimped here. Let's wait until fall and see!

[millennium]

I didn't pass judgment.   I wondered if better actresses may have been passed over because they don't have feline features.

[MarkHB]

While "looks like a cat, or Michelle Pfeiffer" must have been a definite plus, my hunch is that her extensive dance background (and the attendant movement skills) played a larger part.  She also had a role in a film called Battlefield America, admittedly a dance-drama per WP, so she's not a total newbie.

[Kromm]

I didn't pass judgment.   I wondered if better actresses may have been passed over because they don't have feline features.

Yeah, but there's more to the role than the features.  Even a proto-Catwoman is going to require a TON of physicality.  So the casting has to majorly take account of that too.  Despite her relatively thin acting resume, Bicondova does check out on the athleticism--she's a dancer.  Even just looking at those few photos of her in the leathers above, you can tell they hit a home run with her ability to move the way you'd expect Catwoman to.

 

And I'd don't know if "Catlike" is the way to describe her features.  I think I said it upthread.  With the huge hair and those bizarre gigantic features, what she really looks like is an Anime character come to life.

[darkestboy]

She does look like a younger Michelle Pfeiffer and if her acting is as good as that, she'll be fine.

 

A younger Selina could work easily on this show on a regular basis than a younger Bruce IMO.

[Babalu]

I've never seen her act, but I've seen her dance, and she's mesmerizing. She danced with 24-7 (Mark Kanemura, Pono Aweau, Cole and Cara Horibe, and others) when her family lived in Hawai'i and had serious star power. I doubt if I'd be watching this show otherwise, but I'm going to check it out for her.

[Rick Kitchen]

Mark and Cole weren't in the troupe when she was in it, were they?

[Babalu]

I'm pretty sure Cole was, but not Mark, Pono, or Cara. I think I saw at least one concert with both Cole and Cam.

.....just (miraculously!) found a program! The show was called Spirits and was performed November 10/11/12 2011. It lists Cole in the 24-VII Adult Company and Camren Bicondova in the 24-VII Teen Company. I think this was also around the time that Camren was in America's Best Dance Crew (8 Flavahz) with 3 other 24-VII teen dancers (Tam and Tiara Rapp and Summer Waikiki) and 4 girls from California,

[darkestboy]

Really great interview with Camren Bicondova ...

 

http://www.spoilertv.com/2014/08/gotham-camren-bicondova-interview.html

 

Some spoiler though.

[MisterGlass]

I expected to find out more about Selina in an episode named for her, but Cattween did well all the same.  She's tough and cautious.  I like that she is silent unless she needs to speak, and then she doesn't hold back.

[darkestboy]

This was a great episode for Selina. I'm not entirely sure if the episode should've been named after her but Bicondova is perfect as Selina. You just believe in her as a future Catwoman.

[cleo]

She is perfect visually and her physical acting is great, but as soon as she starting talking I found her irritating.

Just the know it all, self possessed smug kind of attitude bugs me. On top of the name Cat it just seems irritating and overdone. This is not a kid who becomes Cat Woman this is like a kid version of Cat Woman.

Edited September 30, 2014 by cleo

[darkestboy]

I buy into the know it all attitude. It seems believable enough from what we've seen and know about her so far.

[Turkish]

Adult Selina is very snarky and manipulative so I would expect young Selina to be the same. Especially for someone who probably grew up on the streets without parental guidance and doesn't trust authority figures.

[willpwr]

I've thought Camren looked like a young Michelle Pfeiffer ever since she and her crew competed in America's Best Dance Crew. I'm sad to have read that due to her age she can't do the majority of the stunts but I like knowing that she actually can if they let her, it makes her more believable to me in the role. I'm glad her acting seems to be improving, I made the mistake of watching Battlefield America which was just an awful movie. I think if she shows the same dedication to acting as she does to dancing that she's gonna be pretty great so I'm looking forward to watching her grow as a performer.

[darkestboy]

So far she's pretty solid in this show. We'll have a better idea though once we see Selina develop more and more, character wise.

[CocoaGoddess]

I find this girl mesmerizing--to look at, to listen to, everything. She has serious presence and stands out on a show with a lot of fun characters and great actors. 

 

Like Bruce, I think she needs to enjoyed in limited doses, but I do look forward to her scenes. 

[Danny Franks]

So I hate that they're actually doing the thing I suggested a while ago, and calling her "Cat". Because I suggested that as a joke about idiot network execs who think their audience is stupid. I get that she's Catwoman-to-be, because her name is Selina Kyle. I get that she likes cats because we saw her give one milk in the opening scenes of the pilot. I get that she's wearing an outfit reminiscent of comic book Catwoman. I don't need it spelled out by giving her that nickname.

 

Other than that though, I'm really liking the character so far. Tough, capable and resourceful, but not overly arrogant of her ability to survive, like so many similar characters on TV. The actress has a nice quality, mixing strength and vulnerability, and she's very watchable.

 

I'd like to see her have more scenes with Gordon, and with Bullock. I think much fun could be had with that sort of stuff.

[Trini]

 

So I hate that they're actually doing the thing I suggested a while ago, and calling her "Cat". Because I suggested that as a joke about idiot network execs who think their audience is stupid. I get that she's Catwoman-to-be, because her name is Selina Kyle. I get that she likes cats because we saw her give one milk in the opening scenes of the pilot. I get that she's wearing an outfit reminiscent of comic book Catwoman. I don't need it spelled out by giving her that nickname.

 

I agree; they're being too on-the-nose with some of the characters. And it's unnecessary; we get it. The viewers who are already into Batman mythology will pick up the subtle hints. And the rest of the viewers* who are not familiar with the mythology just need to know who the characters are here and now, instead of who they'll be in the (far) future.

 

*(The majority)

Edited October 2, 2014 by Trini

[darkestboy]

I do agree that the Cat nickname is one thing we didn't need/somewhat laying it on thick there.

[rho]

I roll my eyes when precocious little kids want to be called by a nickname, but it's not all that unrealistic. To me, the constant throwback is annoying. I'd feel the same way if she was adamant that everyone call her Spike or Ginger or something similar, but it does happen. This is an origin story so it is kind of cool that they're showing us where CATwoman originates.

 

I think it's better than John Blake's name reveal at the end of The Dark Knight Rises. That served absolutely no purpose other than fan service. At least the attitude and the nickname feeds Selina's street urchin vibe.

[marketdoctor]

I wasn't sure at first, but her whole costume was first used in Steampunk Catwoman in the game "Injustice:  Gods Among Us."  Which made me wonder how many more subtle Easter Eggs I missed, but I'm glad they threw in a reference.

 

The actress does justice to the part.

[Traveller519]

I agree that she'll do very well in limited doeses. I like the idea of having a street savvy young character who see's a lot of things to serve as Gordon's CI. I may need to start referring to her as Bubbles.

[janie jones]

So I hate that they're actually doing the thing I suggested a while ago, and calling her "Cat". Because I suggested that as a joke about idiot network execs who think their audience is stupid. I get that she's Catwoman-to-be, because her name is Selina Kyle. I get that she likes cats because we saw her give one milk in the opening scenes of the pilot. I get that she's wearing an outfit reminiscent of comic book Catwoman. I don't need it spelled out by giving her that nickname.

Since I just watched both the second and third episodes just yesterday, I'd already forgotten that she'd been feeding the stray cats in the first episode.  So I couldn't figure out why they were calling her Cat.  I thought they were saying her name was short for Catherine.  If they wanted to make it VERY clear that this kid becomes Catwoman, I feel like it would have been better to show her with the cats more rather than having her insist upon being called Cat (and I agree with the poster who said that would be annoying no matter what the name was).  Although I guess her saying she could see in the dark was supposed to serve that purpose as well.

[MarkHB]

She obviously has an affection for cats; I'm betting that she had a special pet when she was small and still had whatever home life she had. It's not hard to go from that to her owning the name Cat as her street name, and affecting the goggles as part of her image. I'd also wager that the "see in the dark" bit was pure BS on her part.

[janie jones]

The point I was trying to make is that she doesn't obviously have a strong affection for cats. All they did was show her feeding some alley cats in the first episode, in such a way that it was easily forgotten (at least for me).  I don't even like cats and I've done that.  The only real reason we know she likes cats is because we know she's Catwoman.  So it was entirely out of nowhere for me that she'd insist upon being called Cat. 

[Kromm]

The point I was trying to make is that she doesn't obviously have a strong affection for cats. All they did was show her feeding some alley cats in the first episode, in such a way that it was easily forgotten (at least for me).  I don't even like cats and I've done that.  The only real reason we know she likes cats is because we know she's Catwoman.  So it was entirely out of nowhere for me that she'd insist upon being called Cat. 

From what wound up on screen you are not incorrect.

 

But knowing the nature of episodic TV, I've got a feeling a lot of stuff is probably shot and cut out of episodes (or at the very least in scripts and pruned out even before shooting), leading to a lot of potential intent for characters that we aren't necessarily seeing on screen.  I mean think about it.  All you'd need is a scene or two of Selina being swarmed by a group of cats, or acting more explicitly like a cat burgler vs. a purse snatcher, and her nickname wouldn't seem as weird.  But time is of the essence in network TV, and she's only a second tier cog on a show with a dozen major characters, so I'm not surprised.

[janie jones]

I mean think about it.  All you'd need is a scene or two of Selina being swarmed by a group of cats, or acting more explicitly like a cat burgler vs. a purse snatcher, and her nickname wouldn't seem as weird.

I have thought about it.  This is basically what I said in my previous post.  And maybe I shouldn't be surprised at poor exposition, but that doesn't mean I should like it.

[EverCat]

Hate the googles - too round.  Between the goggles and the squats, it reminds me more of a frog.  It would be better if the goggles were shaped narrower or upturned.

- Just one of those things that bother me the more I see it.