S05.E13: Labor Of Love

[Shanna Marie]

If they thought that revealing Meg's name at the end was a big "aha!" or "ooh!" moment, I think they miscalculated. If you'd seen the movie, you were probably already assuming that it was Meg, since that was the main girl in the Hercules movie, and revealing who she was didn't really amount to a twist because they hadn't added to or significantly changed her story in a way that reversed expectations. If you hadn't seen the movie, her name didn't mean anything to you, and she may as well have been any random woman.

 

Meanwhile, it felt like a lot of her story had to be cut out after the fact, since it was even alluded to. Why was she in the cells with Hook, being guarded by Cerberus, while Hercules was in Underbrooke, doing manual labor and "living" a normal life? Was she the one Cerberus was sent after in the first place, and then Herc died fighting it to defend her? Did that have anything to do with her imprisonment? And then she told Emma to tell Hook that he was right to trust her, as though that was something that had been in doubt and that was meaningful for her. Did that mean that she previously had been unreliable and hadn't carried through on something that needed to be done, so this vindicated her?

 

If they wanted a more meaningful "aha" moment about her identity, it should have been earlier, with her introducing herself to Hook. Then those who saw the movie would at least have had some doubt about whether she could be trusted or whether she was in league with Hades and it was all part of a setup.

[Camera One]

If they thought that revealing Meg's name at the end was a big "aha!" or "ooh!" moment, I think they miscalculated. If you'd seen the movie, you were probably already assuming that it was Meg, since that was the main girl in the Hercules movie, and revealing who she was didn't really amount to a twist because they hadn't added to or significantly changed her story in a way that reversed expectations.

 

I agree it was not an effective twist, but I watched the movie and never thought it might be Meg, since she seemed like an extra.  I was surprised she continued to get lines even after she got the message to Emma.

[YaddaYadda]

I was surprised she continued to get lines even after she got the message to Emma.

 

They used her to convey why she and Hercules were so terrified of Cerberus, which WTF was that thing doing not being in the UW? 

 

Was he released on purpose, or something?

[Camera One]

Yeah, that's a good question.  Or a pointless one, LOL.  Right now, he's not even guarding the entrance to the Underworld, just some tunnels leading to Hades' home office.  

[Shanna Marie]

I agree it was not an effective twist, but I watched the movie and never thought it might be Meg, since she seemed like an extra.

Maybe I should amend it to say you either already figured out she was Meg or didn't care because she seemed like an extra. Did anyone actually have an "OMG! That's Meg!" reaction to the revelation at the end? Or was it all either "duh" or "so?"? Or possibly "really?"

 

I think there did need to be some reason behind Cerberus in the living world. Was it after Meg? Did Hades send it after Herc to try to get him into the Underworld before he completed his labors and Meg was in the wrong place at the wrong time? And I still want to know why she considered it significant that she had come through on what Hook asked her to do. Again, it seems like a big "duh." She passed on a message. It was difficult and scary for her to run for it while he distracted the puppy, but once she made it, she was instantly found by Emma, so it's not like she had the temptation to run for it entirely without finding Emma.

[Rumsy4]

I think Meg was supposed to betray Herc the first time. Maybe Hades released Cerberus to the upper world just so he could kill Hercules. I think she confessed that to Hook, and that part was cut. It would have made him trusting her to get out and find Emma Swan even more significant to her as an act of trust.

[YaddaYadda]

I think Meg was supposed to betray Herc the first time. Maybe Hades released Cerberus to the upper world just so he could kill Hercules. I think she confessed that to Hook, and that part was cut. It would have made him trusting her to get out and find Emma Swan even more significant to her as an act of trust.

 

"Tell Hook that I did the right thing, and that he was right to trust me."

 

Yeah, I agree that something was cut somewhere.

[Rumsy4]

Heh. Someone pointed out that Cruella made a return appearance in the 101th episode. 

[jhlipton]

Did anyone actually have an "OMG! That's Meg!" reaction to the revelation at the end? Or was it all either "duh" or "so?"? Or possibly "really?"

 

I haven't seen the movie, but I've seen a few clips, and heard her song on Dancing With The Stars.  So I knew the name, but associated it with someone far more feisty. When she said her name, I thought, "No, that's not Meg. Just a bland cardboard cut-out with the same name."

[kitticup]

I am a little late. But I really enjoyed the episode and was surprised it got such a negative response. Disclaimer: I have never watched Hercules so I wasn't bothered by Meg or Herc's depiction.

I loved the flashbacks. It was something new. I wonder if snow ever learned that Regina was setting her up to fail. I thought snow might have thought that Regina had all this faith in her. The only snow and Regina flashbacks I want to see are the ones that explain why snow feels conflicted about Regina, instead of hating her for everything Regina has done. Having said that, I loved that snow called Regina on everything that Regina took from her. It would have been better if Regina apologized, instead of minimized it.

I liked the young snow and Herc's scenes.

I am liking Hades. He is very menacing. He is different from all the other villians in a good way. I think the actor is doing a great job.

Cheesy special effects are part of the charm of the show. Unfortunately gaps in logic/continuity are part and parcel of this show and I accept it.

My theory on why Meg was locked up is that Hades knew she would be key to Herc killing his dog, so he wanted to keep them apart. My crack theoryas for why killian is locked up: I think the gods were placing bets on when Hook would die and Hades lost. Since the gods were placing bets on him they weren't allowed to kill him. Hence why Poseidon didn't kill hook.

[darkestboy]

That was one of the better Snow episodes we've had in a while. I really liked her flashbacks with Hercules and I also liked that right now, she's decided not to be Mary Margaret anymore.

 

Hercules was a great guest character but they didn't do anything too interesting with Megara though. CGI Cerberus looked a little silly.

 

Hades is definitely shaping up as a much better villain and Hook himself has been put in a pretty dicey position now.

 

Some great scenes with Regina/Snow and Emma/Regina too.

 

Henry was a little too easily manipulated by Cruella though, 8/10

[Curio]

If Henry is worried about Emma being a "murderer" (even though she's not) and wants to reverse that, is Operation Firebird Henry's secret plan to make Regina not a murderer anymore by reversing the deaths of her hundreds of victims? Or is the Cruella thing just a Henry double-standard when it comes to Emma where she can't be a murderer, but it's okay if his other mother is?

[Camera One]

It's messed up but I can see why Henry might feel guilty about Cruella's death, especially since Emma was only forced to defend because of Henry.  Maybe he blames himself for Emma becoming the Dark One.  But if this were the case, they needed to build it up and explain Henry's thought processes.  Because they didn't, it just made Henry look like an idiot.  What else is new, though.  I kept thinking they would have Henry outsmarting Peter Pan at some point in 3A, but he fell for every trap.  These writers don't know how to write smart heroes, only smart villains.

Edited March 18, 2016 by Camera One

[Curio]

It's messed up but I can see why Henry might feel guilty about Cruella's death, especially since Emma was only forced to defend because of Henry. Maybe he blames himself for Emma becoming the Dark One.

 

Shouldn't Henry also feel guilty about Graham's death then? If he didn't try to convince Graham and Emma of the fairy tales, Graham would still be alive.

[Camera One]

He was so young then, though.  The Cruella thing was much more recent.  The Writers aren't going to touch the Graham thing because Regina was at fault.  We still don't know what Henry thinks now about why Graham died.

[Delphi]

Didn't he feel guilty about that? After he died didn't Henry want to stop Operation Cobra because he didn't want anyone else getting hurt?

[Shanna Marie]

Or is the Cruella thing just a Henry double-standard when it comes to Emma where she can't be a murderer, but it's okay if his other mother is?

Regina Exception Clause.

 

Because Emma's one death, in defense of her son, is so much worse than Regina's villages full of slaughtered peasants and random other people she killed on a whim. Now that Regina's father has forgiven her for murdering him, she's all good.

 

I'm holding out hope that it's going to be like the Pan/Hook/Neal thing in season 3, where they left it looking like Hook was going to keep the secret of Neal's return, and he spilled all early in the next episode. So maybe what will happen is Henry will just ignore Cruella but not tell anyone about her offer because he doesn't take it seriously, and Cora really didn't have any plans or diagrams of the Underworld (because why would she?), so he was being sincere to Robin and they just framed it to look shady.

[Camera One]

That's what I'm hoping too.  Or maybe it's to give Robin something to do... though I'm not sure he has the brain-power to figure out Henry was up to no good.

Edited March 18, 2016 by Camera One

[Rumsy4]

Having Robin accompany Henry to the Mayor's office but do nothing more to help Henry was just sad. This would have been the opportunity for some Henry & Robin interactions that doesn't involve them just standing near each other in a group of people. 

 

I was listening to a podcast, and apparently some fans felt uncomfortable with all the flirting between Herc/Snow, and feel that the lens-flare kiss has ruined the "True Loveness" of Snowing. What even?? 

Edited March 18, 2016 by Rumsy4

[Camera One]

Snow also kept another secret from Charming.  I wish she were as honest as Regina.

[Bishop]

Hades is definitely shaping up as a much better villain and Hook himself has been put in a pretty dicey position now.

I agree that Hades is turning out to be a great villain.  He has no friends, children, loves or allegiances, and so he can remain utterly diabolical - and I love it.  Even Cora was afraid of him.  The only dangling thread for me (that matters) is why is he targeting Hook the way he is.  The other inhabitants of the Underworld, including Cora, were given fairly okay lives.  I'm wondering if it's because Hook has a good heart, whereas Cora and Pan and Cruella, etc. are much like Hades, and he understands how to deal with them.  I'm just trying to figure out why Hook has been mistreated the way he has, and the only thing I can come up with is that Hook won't play ball.  Perhaps Hades wants Hook to do certain things in the Underworld that the rest are willing to do, and because he won't, he ends up in the prison (much like Meg) being targeted by Hades.  It's the only part of the Underworld story that needs explaining to me. The other stuff (like why the Underworld resembles Storybrook) I can wait on.

Edited March 18, 2016 by Bishop

[Jul 68]

I still think it has to do with the loss of The Dark Ones somehow.

[AudienceofOne]

I think it has to be related to the Dark magic somehow. Unless they're going to throw us a MacGuffin curveball and give us flashbacks to some Hook adventure from the past where he finds a [insert MacGuffin here] that can [insert MacGuffiny goodness here] that Hades wants to [this bit doesn't matter but will delivered with diabolical glee].

[Mari]

  These writers don't know how to write smart heroes, only smart villains.

Ehhh . . . I can't say I've been impressed with the brain power of the villains, either.  They just get snarkier lines.

 

 I'm wondering if it's because Hook has a good heart, whereas Cora and Pan and Cruella, etc. are much like Hades,

I'm sorry, but Rumple is the one with the good heart.  Rumple.  Are you sure we're watching the same show?  Because I now have questions about that.  ; )

 

 

Regina Exception Clause.

 

Because Emma's one death, in defense of her son, is so much worse than Regina's villages full of slaughtered peasants and random other people she killed on a whim. Now that Regina's father has forgiven her for murdering him, she's all good.

I've got a couple of theories.  

• He knows Regina's killed and killed and killed and killed.  He knows Regina will end up there, and there's no way to unmurderer her.  He's accepted it and moved on.  Demurderering (spit, spit, spit) Emma is easier--it's one person, and he's got access to her.
• He, like every single other person on the show (on-screen characters and production people), see Regina Mills and Queen Regina as completely different people,and because Regina has "come so far" she won't end up there.

Edited March 19, 2016 by Mari

[Curio]

He knows Regina's killed and killed and killed and killed. He knows Regina will end up there, and there's no way to unmurderer her.  He's accepted it and moved on. Demurderering (spit, spit, spit) Emma is easier--it's one person, and he's got access to her.

 

Henry is like one of those Twitter "activists." He could take a mission trip to a third world country and spend his spring break trip building houses and doing actual hard, grueling, manual labor, or he could just tweet #InsertActivismSloganHere and stay at home.

[KAOS Agent]

I'd kind of like to have Henry go through with this stupid plan to unstain Emma's soul and then have her tell him that she killed some bail jumper in self defense when he attacked her several years ago. You can't undo Emma's "murders". Does he know Emma threw Walsh off the top of their apartment building? It's cute that he wants to fix things, but he supposedly understood that no one should have that kind of power when he snapped the pen. Now he's going to use it to "fix" things from the past. That is a very, very bad idea. Henry is an idiot. Although I will say that I love that he lied right to Robin's face and Robin didn't even have a clue.

Edited March 18, 2016 by KAOS Agent

[Camera One]

Cruella: "For those of us in this ghastly Underworld, we have two choices.   Leaving for a better place or a worse one.."  I love how vague their "world-building" is...

 

I suppose Underbrooke is sort of like prison... I know she listed music and alcohol being absent, but at least she gets her car and the freedom to walk around making threats and deals.  And how is it a "choice" where they go?   Hopefully, that would be revealed at the very least.

Edited March 18, 2016 by Camera One

[Jul 68]

Hopefully, that would be revealed at the very least.

Now THAT'S funny (said with love)! Sadly, A&E have no idea this is anything that needs explained.

[Bishop]

 

I'm sorry, but Rumple is the one with the good heart.  Rumple.  Are you sure we're watching the same show?  Because I now have questions about that.  ; )

Are you being serious here or facetious?  Rumple is SO far removed from a good guy that I wouldn't even know where to begin.  If you've been watching the show from the beginning, it has been shown that Rumple is in love with his power, and he will kill, torture, cheat, betray, and disown anyone who tries to take that from him.  Rumple himself said that the power is everything to him.  He will risk his relationship with Belle to keep it.  

Edited March 19, 2016 by Bishop

[Curio]

Are you being serious here or facetious? Rumple is SO far removed from a good guy that I wouldn't even know where to begin.

 

I'm pretty sure that was facetious. But you'd be surprised how many fans there are on Tumblr and Twitter who actually think Rumple is the biggest victim on the show and everyone is just so mean to him and he's clearly done nothing wrong...

 

I'd kind of like to have Henry go through with this stupid plan to unstain Emma's soul and then have her tell him that she killed some bail jumper in self defense when he attacked her several years ago. You can't undo Emma's "murders". Does he know Emma threw Walsh off the top of their apartment building?

 

Seriously, this whole Un-Making a Murderer plot is so stupid it hurts my brain. Does Henry realize people can get in trouble in real life just by attempting to murder someone? Just because there isn't a dead body in the Underworld to prove it doesn't make them a better person. Is Henry going to go yell at the army for killing a bunch of people, too? This show needs to give Henry an aging spell, age him up to Jared's age, and then give him a good 50 more IQ points.

Edited March 19, 2016 by Curio

[Mari]

Are you being serious here or facetious?  Rumple is SO far removed from a good guy that I wouldn't even know where to begin.  

I was kidding--we've heard over and over again from Belle how Rumple is a good man, and every time Belle drones on about Rumple's good heart I roll my eyes and cringe a little at how creepy that relationship is.

Edited March 19, 2016 by Mari

[Dianthus]

So, just out of curiosity ( and somewhat OT): is anyone else surprised why some fans are surprised that Regina, Rumple, and Neal are disliked by so many? I know it takes all kinds, but I am flabbergasted by it all the same. Even if you discount all of Regina's evil deeds, she's just not very likable (i.e., always punching down, unlike Hook, who punches up). Rumple is like Heath Ledger's Joker (completely amoral), and Neal - while nowhere near as bad as the others - hurt a young and vulnerable Emma. I find nothing admirable in any of that.

[Bishop]

I'm pretty sure that was facetious. But you'd be surprised how many fans there are on Tumblr and Twitter who actually think Rumple is the biggest victim on the show and everyone is just so mean to him and he's clearly done nothing wrong...

 

 

I was kidding--we've heard over and over again from Belle how Rumple is a good man, and every time Belle drones on about Rumple's good heart I roll my eyes and cringe a little at how creepy that relationship is.

Oh good.  I was thinking I was watching a COMPLETELY different show.  It is annoying that Gold has failed to grow as a character.  I get that he loves his power, but there are only so many times he can lie and betray Belle that their "love story" stops being a love story.  He refuses to make the hard choices to keep her in his life and make her truly proud of him.  Then again, I guess OUAT needs a regular villain on the show since Regina and Hook have both changed their ways.

[PixiePaws1]

So, just out of curiosity ( and somewhat OT): is anyone else surprised why some fans are surprised that Regina, Rumple, and Neal are disliked by so many? I know it takes all kinds, but I am flabbergasted by it all the same. Even if you discount all of Regina's evil deeds, she's just not very likable (i.e., always punching down, unlike Hook, who punches up). Rumple is like Heath Ledger's Joker (completely amoral), and Neal - while nowhere near as bad as the others - hurt a young and vulnerable Emma. I find nothing admirable in any of that.

you know...i sort of get liking Regina..at first....before the indescribable horror of her callously murdering women and children of an entire village. I tend to sympathize with any one forced into an arranged marriage (whole concept of parents etc forcing their child into such a thing makes my skin crawl) and young Regina never deserved such a fate.BUT...she turned dark and became a wholesale murderer and that's where every last skerrick of my sympathy evaporated.

Rumple...even as the DO was a loving father. ..and there is something heartening about a pretty woman actually seeing beneath an unattractive exterior...Unfortunately Belle is clearly blind as a mole if she thinks there's still anything in there worth caring about.

As for Neal..i have never seen so much as 1 iota of value in that turd. Now...maybe...maybe ...i could get past his abandonment of Emma 'for her own good' because he is clearly a complete and utter moron of monumental proportions if sending her to jail was the best plan he and the other moron could come up with using the one functioning brain cell they have between them. Being terminally stupid doesn't make you a bad person.

And if i literally force myself (&it would be an exercise of truly epic proportions to do so) I could look past the hideously disgusting image of much..much older (going grey!) man taking sexual advantage of incredibly vulnerable (as we most of us suspect ) underage Emma. The final nail in that coffin was his reprehensible and thoroughly repugnant treatment of Emma when he paraded his fiancé around, accused Emma of being jealous, and completely dismissing her abilities. Don't get me started over the 'Should have told me about Henry' crap.. How any individual with an ounce of human compassion can see Neal as a good guy is beyond me.

Edited March 20, 2016 by PixiePaws1

[Camera One]

I kinda wished Dalmatians were attacking Cruella everywhere she went in Underbrooke.  Wouldn't that have been more fitting?

[KAOS Agent]

Maybe that's why she was in Cora's office hiding behind the protection spell. I did appreciate how quickly she made changes to the decor in the office. I kind of wish they installed a new mayor every week just to see what the props/set guys would come up with for each character.

[Curio]

I kinda wished Dalmatians were attacking Cruella everywhere she went in Underbrooke.  Wouldn't that have been more fitting?

 

Hades seems to be very selective about who he tortures in the Underworld. Hook defies him and gets beaten bloody. Cora fails her task and gets turned into a miller's daughter. Cruella must be doing a good job of staying out of Hades's (terrible blue CGI) hair.

Edited March 20, 2016 by Curio

[KingOfHearts]

For all we know she may be working for Hades. Maybe Hades wants the powers of the Author for something.

[Camera One]

Yeah, I also wondered if Hades is employing Cruella.  Though I sure hope we haven't replaced Find the Author! with Find the Pen!

[tennisgurl]

Then when Cruella pisses Hades off, she has to become a dog groomer! The horror! 

[KAOS Agent]

Ah yes, the episode where Snow declares that she doesn't want to be Mary Margaret anymore. I'm sure that will stick.

Following on the heels of Regina's centric where her victim apologizes to her and other random people she murdered are sent to hell, it's particularly glaring that Hook is being tortured horribly. Hades is using a cat o' nine tails on him and he's now been mauled by a hell beast. It's clear to me that no one in the writers room saw the ridiculousness of how they were writing this overall Underworld arc. Emma is a horrible murderer whose soul is stained (whatever, show). Hook is being tortured (not to say he was all that great a person in life, but why is he singled out while others are left to roam free?). Regina is happily resolving all of her personal issues with the dead, while not being challenged by a single red shirt victim of hers. One of these things is not like the other.

Oh and the freaking pen is a living thing and has unfinished business. The best thing this show did in 4B was break the pen and end the stupid Author storyline for good and now they're bringing it back. Worse, they're using the dumbass notion that Emma protecting Henry from the woman holding a gun to his head made her a murderer in order to do so. It's like every horrific part of 4B is being brought back to haunt me. We just need eggnapping and the 4B resurrection in the Underworld will be complete. 

[Camera One]

On 5/20/2019 at 1:09 AM, KAOS Agent said:

Ah yes, the episode where Snow declares that she doesn't want to be Mary Margaret anymore. I'm sure that will stick.

I wonder... were the Writers planning to do more with this?  Did they intend to reboot the character with this new rebirth?  Was this supposed to be the beginning of a new character arc and journey for Snow?

Spoiler

Having seen the rest of the series, I'm not sure what they were intending.  When in Season 6, she declared she just wanted to live a quiet life as Mary Margaret.

[tennisgurl]

So I guess Snow is going back to be Snow and not MM anymore! Wow, I am totally excited to see what they do with that and how they show her being a more active hero, and I am sure that it wont be instantly forgotten! You know, watching Snow getting all teary eyed about all her dead subjects, many of whom were probably murdered by Regina or on her orders, kind of takes away from her whole "I must protect my people" stuff knowing she is going to end up palling around with one of their greatest monsters. 

So we get another "main character learned some lesson from a famous character who they bump into now" story, and that how we get Hercules in the plot. The actor does a pretty good job (even if he is nothing like either the cartoon version of the character or the mythical one) with what he has, but its all so random, especially considering that the Hades we meet is supposed to be the guy from the Disney movie. And this version of Meg is one of the saddest examples of this show taking characters from other mediums and making them dull and bland. Cartoon Meg is one of the most dynamic and unique female leads in the Disney cannon, being morally ambiguous, snarky, world weary, and tough, and even working with the bad guy originally. She is probably the best part of the movie honestly, so the version of her that Once gives us...screams and runs around in terror a lot. She seems nice enough, but absolutely nothing like the cartoon version, I guess that version might be too interesting. Honestly, considering the cartoon character and the actress who plays her has played a lot of shady or secretive characters, I kept waiting to find out she was working with Hades, or being coerced to work for him against our heroes, but that never happened. Why even both with using Hades if you dont use anything else from magical Greece or from his stories?!

This also starts another theme of the show, being "Henry is a little shit who makes everything worse by being a little shit." I guess he wants to undue the one death Emma has instead of Regina, as if they had to reverse all HER killings, they would be here for the next several decades. And I guess Percival must be around, and Henry will have to bring him back to life so Charming wont have a black stain on his soul OH WAIT... This is already so stupid I cant even deal with it, and Henry is obviously a teenager now, he cant get by on being a little kid obsessed with fair tales anymore. Now him trusting a villain to help "clean his moms soul" or whatever just seems stupid and shitty to hide this.

[Shanna Marie]

I was out of town last weekend, so I'm finally catching up on the rewatch. This one was kind of good because I love young Snow, and there was some actual drama and tension. But at the same time, it doesn't make a lot of sense.

The whole "I need to be Snow White again" thing is so silly. She was acting like Emma never knew her as anything but meek and mild. I guess they forgot the whole Team Princess adventure, in which Snow was a total boss, running around with her bow and sword and taking charge of the situation. Even during the curse, Mary Margaret wasn't entirely weak, especially after Emma came to town. She went behind Regina's back, stood up to Regina, helped campaign for Emma against Sidney, faced down the whole town when she was being slut shamed. After the curse broke, there was the Team Princess time, and then she was bold enough to come up with the plan to kill Cora (though that was apparently evil), and then she was pretty strong and tough in Neverland. Snow being all wimpy because of being Mary Margaret is a total retcon.

3 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

So we get another "main character learned some lesson from a famous character who they bump into now" story

Not only that, but another "main character learns to be brave and in just a day or two learns enough about fighting to be able to fend off an entire gang" story. The Enchanted Forest really does have pathetic criminal gangs if they can be easily defeated by one person who only just picked up a weapon a day or so ago. In the time it took Snow to nock another arrow, that whole gang should have been able to take her. Then again, what was wrong with the villagers, given that they were all armed with long, sharp, pointy things and outnumbered the bandits?

In this episode we get confirmation that Snow was the rightful heir to the throne. It's not some wacky system in which the king's widow inherits the throne. So why isn't Snow considered queen now? Regina is supposedly totally good, but she never steps down to be the queen mother or dowager queen, or anything like that even though she usurped the throne from Snow.

3 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Honestly, considering the cartoon character and the actress who plays her has played a lot of shady or secretive characters, I kept waiting to find out she was working with Hades, or being coerced to work for him against our heroes, but that never happened.

It seemed like there had to have been a scene missing somewhere along the way. When she's saying farewell, Meg tells them to tell Hook that he was right to trust her, which implies that there was ever any doubt about that. That line makes no sense, given what we saw, which was pretty straightforward -- Hook wakes up, she warns him, he gets her to try escaping, then he stalls Cerberus so she can get away. Why wouldn't he have been able to trust her? Which makes me think that there was a cut subplot in which we learned that she'd set him up or was working with Hades, or something like that. I'm also not sure what her unfinished business was supposed to have been. Was she stuck in the Underworld just so Hercules could complete his unfinished business and save her? And why was Hades holding her prisoner? I guess maybe to keep Hercules from completing his unfinished business and moving on to Olympus.

It's a little disturbing how attractive bloody and battered Hook was. The blood spatter was artistically applied to accentuate his bone structure, and his hair fell just so.

Hades' rationale for suddenly wanting to keep them there makes no sense, given that in the previous episode he wanted them gone.

Spoiler

And it turns out to be yet another case of the villain causing his own downfall. If he'd let them go once they got Hook, he'd still be ruling the Underworld.

The whole thing seems driven by what plot they need for each episode rather than by any kind of character logic.

I still don't really get (and don't think the writers do, either) how the Underworld works. There doesn't seem to be any difference between the dead people and the living who are visiting. The dead must be some kind of corporeal incarnation of their souls. These aren't their physical bodies. Otherwise the Blind Witch would be roasted. But these soul bodies seem to be on a par with the actual bodies of the living. They can hug and they can be hurt.

[Camera One]

Did Present-day Snow find out in this episode find out that Regina set her up when she was a teenager?

[Shanna Marie]

18 minutes ago, Camera One said:

Did Present-day Snow find out in this episode find out that Regina set her up when she was a teenager?

I don't think so. But they're such good friends now that I guess it's all water under the bridge. When Regina arranged the murder of Snow's father, drove Snow out of her home and tried to hunt her down and kill her, and cast a curse that separated her from her husband and daughter, all the more minor evil really doesn't matter much in comparison. Besides, Regina can't be held accountable. She's a totally different person now.

[Camera One]

38 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

I don't think so. But they're such good friends now that I guess it's all water under the bridge. When Regina arranged the murder of Snow's father, drove Snow out of her home and tried to hunt her down and kill her, and cast a curse that separated her from her husband and daughter, all the more minor evil really doesn't matter much in comparison. Besides, Regina can't be held accountable. She's a totally different person now.

LOL, that's likely exactly what A&E believe.  If Snow did find out, it would probably be a scene where Snow thanks Regina for being such a tough stepmother since it helped her to grow stronger and become the woman she is today.

Edited May 24, 2019 by Camera One