S03.E14: Final Decision, Pt. 2

[Tara Ariano]

Conclusion. In the season finale, the couples decide if they want to remain married.

[Neurochick]

I can't wait to see which, if any, of the remaining two couples stay together. 

 

Really, I think this entire show is such a farce.  One thing I've learned is that nobody can tell which couples stay together and which couples split up.  The "experts" say they use science to match people up, but that means nothing really.  Sometimes people who you think should stay together break up, and vice versa.  

 

I don't think there's any science to it.  Decades or centuries ago, people got together because they were the same age/race/nationality/lived in the same area. Also, decades ago, people didn't have access to as many people as we do now.  For example, I once dated/knew/hooked up with a man I met on the Internet; we wrote each other for a year before we met and then saw each other off and on for awhile and continued to correspond with each other until he died.  This man lived in Australia, now if not for the Internet, we never would have met.  

 

I'm watching a TLC show called "Rattled" and there's one couple that seem to not belong together though they have a child together.  I don't know if they'll stay together, it's 50/50.  

 

I guess what I'm saying is the "experts" are full of shit.  There is no science to any of this and most of it is a crap shoot.  Anybody here, on this board could do the same job as the experts and have the same results (maybe even better).

[cardigirl]

Well...

 

Not sure I entirely agree with you.  I think that we have more choices, absolutely, for possible partners, and that is more than likely what is fueling the rise in the rate of divorce, but what makes a good marriage is pretty fundamental, isn't it?  The commitment to one partner requires more than just attraction.  Attraction brings a couple together, but after awhile there has to be more. I think being married and in an exclusive relationship requires making the conscious decision to do it.  Love is a choice.  That's where learning how to communicate, how to create true intimacy (not just the sexual kind) comes in to making a healthy and fulfilling relationship.  JMO.  

[Neurochick]

Well...

 

Not sure I entirely agree with you.  I think that we have more choices, absolutely, for possible partners, and that is more than likely what is fueling the rise in the rate of divorce, but what makes a good marriage is pretty fundamental, isn't it?  The commitment to one partner requires more than just attraction.  Attraction brings a couple together, but after awhile there has to be more. I think being married and in an exclusive relationship requires making the conscious decision to do it.  Love is a choice.  That's where learning how to communicate, how to create true intimacy (not just the sexual kind) comes in to making a healthy and fulfilling relationship.  JMO.  

 

Well that's my point.  There is no way than any expert can prove who will be good together.  If it's about making a conscious decision to stay together then how does one know who will be able to make that conscious decision?  And how do you know that making that conscious decision is healthy over time?  I mean say two people marry and then life happens and one person reacts to shit differently and eventually becomes abusive.  Now the other person has made a conscious decision to be an an exclusive relationship, but if someone's being abusive, then IMO all bets are off.  

 

Why do some couples say, "we're making a decision to stay together" and others don't?  Is it about character, or is it something else?  I have a friend whose been with her husband for years.  She told me that it wasn't so much about love; she knew that this man wouldn't expect things from her that she wasn't able to give, she has health problems, he understands that she can't go rock climbing, so they do other things.  She met other types of men who weren't so understanding and she knew that even though she was attracted to them, they wouldn't be able to have a life together.  

 

But my point is, the "art" of putting people together is a crap shoot because you really don't know who's going to be willing to compromise and who won't be willing to compromise until you're there in that situation.

[cardigirl]

 I bought into the premise of the show that there are factors that make people more likely to be compatible with others. Arranged marriages statistically are more successful because the marriage is based on something other than "attraction."  It hasn't been proven by this show though. So I guess I do agree with you that the experts have not proven very adept at matching, given the results of the past two seasons. 

 

I know it's popular to dislike the "experts."  but I like their advice. Just wish they were really actually trying to determine good matches.  I think the producers are messing it up.  

[Neurochick]

I don't dislike the experts, I just believe there is no way one can be an expert in matching people.

 

I disagree about arranged marriages being more successful.  I think people in arranged marriages might stay together longer, but I also think in many of those cases there is family/society/religious/ethnic pressure for them to do so.  If you're X religion or X race and live in X community, there's more pressure to stay together.  Getting a divorce in that situation could get a person shunned.

 

Also many arranged marriages were about money and keeping the money between families.

[cardigirl]

I don't dislike the experts, I just believe there is no way one can be an expert in matching people.

 

I disagree about arranged marriages being more successful.  I think people in arranged marriages might stay together longer, but I also think in many of those cases there is family/society/religious/ethnic pressure for them to do so.  If you're X religion or X race and live in X community, there's more pressure to stay together.  Getting a divorce in that situation could get a person shunned.

 

Also many arranged marriages were about money and keeping the money between families.

But that's maybe why marriage, as an institution, is more "successful" as arranged (and by successful, I mean, lack of divorce). Marriage is a legal contract between two people, and in religious terms, a binding promise to the partner and to God.  The religious aspects (forsaking all others, love and honor) are part of building a happy union, but the contract part is that this pairing will create a family and build wealth.  Romantic love, such as what is shown in movies, books, etc., didn't have a place in marriage til late in the game.  People definitely 'fell' in love for centuries, but it was not seen as necessary for marriage. 

 

I see marriage as evolving and changing, and quite possibly, on it's way out.  My generation (and my own ideal) was a lifelong partnership with love and friendship. I don't know that my children's generation will have that.

[Evil Queen]

 I bought into the premise of the show that there are factors that make people more likely to be compatible with others. Arranged marriages statistically are more successful because the marriage is based on something other than "attraction."  It hasn't been proven by this show though. So I guess I do agree with you that the experts have not proven very adept at matching, given the results of the past two seasons. 

 

I know it's popular to dislike the "experts."  but I like their advice. Just wish they were really actually trying to determine good matches.  I think the producers are messing it up.  

 

The problem I have with the "experts" is they seem to base most of why they put 2 people together on the issues those people have instead of what interests they have, look for in a future partner/in life, etc. You shouldn't put 2 people together because they have had parents leave from their lives or both had shitty childhoods, or one is more aggressive than the other, and so on. I just don't feel they look at the big picture and make sure they are really picking people that want to be married and are truly ready for it and what it brings for the long haul. The advice they give is so one sided most the time that it becomes a joke IMO. When you are telling one person in the relationship to do this and that to get the other person to do whatever its wrong. Why isn't it that both are told things to do for the better of the relationship? Things shouldn't be laid on one person alone. 

  I think the only reason truly arranged marriages work is like Neurochick said they have pressures from families in those cultures/religions/etc that make it harder to just up and leave that marriage. That is no matter what goes on in the marriage. So you end up seeing some (not all) that shouldn't be together stuck in bad situations because of it. Its not perfect but what is? I think that, sadly, to many nowadays look at divorce as not a big deal compared to how it once was. Yet it should be a big deal. To me the only reason for divorce should be a cheating or abusive spouse. Everything else you can work through over time. 

[Neurochick]

And the arranged marriage stuff brings me to Neil.  I would not be surprised if Neil and Sam stay married because Neil wants a marriage more than he wants Sam, if that makes any sense.

[WichitaStateShock]

I wonder if I should just tune in for the last 10 minutes as I dont want to see recaps

[Jellybeans]

I wonder if I should just tune in for the last 10 minutes as I dont want to see recaps

I am going to wait until I read this thread before watching it- so I know how much fast forwarding I need to do. I have no patience for recaps. They drag it on and on...

[Empress1]

I am going to wait until I read this thread before watching it- so I know how much fast forwarding I need to do. I have no patience for recaps. They drag it on and on...

I won't be home until halfway through the ep, probably, so I'll have a nice buffer for fast-forwarding. I really only want to see the decisions.

I predict that Vanessa and Tres will stay together and Sam and Neil will split. Neil seems very controlled, but when he was talking to his mother I got a glimpse of how unhappy he is. I think/hope he's done.

I could go either way on Vanessa and Tres making it for the long haul though.

[Jellybeans]

I agree with your assessment... I doubt Tres and Vanessa make it long term. Sam and Neil.. I don't know if they are "trying again" six months later. Why would he take a chance again?

[Neurochick]

I predict they all will divorce, if not tonight, then in six months.

[CaptainCranky]

I've looked into my crystal ball and going to end the suspense. All three couples will get divorced.

Edited March 1, 2016 by CaptainCranky

[Evil Queen]

I am going to wait until I read this thread before watching it- so I know how much fast forwarding I need to do. I have no patience for recaps. They drag it on and on...

 

This is what I have been doing. I dvr it and watch it the next day or 2 after but go through the comments and see what happens. Heck this last one I basically got all the info on it from here and didn't need to watch it. Once I started to I did a lot of not paying attention to what was going on except certain points or fast forwarded through parts. I know for some it would spoil the show but for this show sometimes reading everyone's take on what happened is more exciting than watching the show. LOL 

[Vinyasa]

I wonder if I should just tune in for the last 10 minutes as I dont want to see recaps

 

Ha!

 

With all the filler and recaps they had for "Part 1" how much more filler and recaps can they use for "Part 2"??  It is going to be a long night!

 

music quote "it's all or nothing" music quote

Edited March 1, 2016 by Vinyasa

[Neurochick]

So one couple's made a decision and it was only 9:20 what will happen for the remaining 35 minutes?

[VioletNevermind]

NEIL. He finally located his balls and stood up for himself. I love it.

Sam appears to be taking ownership on Twitter, so at least that's refreshing.

[Neurochick]

Dear Ashley:

 

You need someone who looks good to you, just say it, stop bullshitting.  You saw that man and said, "hell no."  She sat in the ladies room and said, "I Don't Like Him."  The microphone caught that.  Stop fronting.  The end.  

 

Now Ashley doesn't want to look like the villain, she wants to be the victim, now she wants to "have a conversation" with David.    Go away Ashley and find your dark haired prince.  

 

Thank you Neil for growing a pair and saying you're committed to....a divorce.  

Edited March 2, 2016 by Neurochick

[sleekandchic]

My opinion? Samantha is a manipulative, lying phony. Her sobs and (largely) tearless "crying" leave me cold.

There's not a doubt in my mind that if Neil had announced first -- and said he wanted to stay married -- that she would have said NO! in a second. Her comment about leaving for Costa Rica the next day? If true, those tickets were likely booked BEFORE Decision Day. She couldn't go to his family wedding in Vegas last week cuz she couldn't get time off from work, but she's on her way to Costa Rica? Manipulation and game playing. If Neil had stupidly sad Yes, I'm sure Sam would have said Surprise! -- I'm leaving for Costa Rica tomorrow to DECOMPRESS Without you!

Sam is all about control and oneupsmanship. Did Neil say he thought something was "missing" in her? I've thought the same thing since her wedding day insanity.

She said she wants a family? Why didn't the Experts discuss the lack of physicality between two of the couples? Huge elephants in the room.

Not sure Vanessa and Tres will last but happy they're trying! Their children would be gorgeously beautiful. (Not that that's a reason to stay married.)

Edited March 2, 2016 by sleekandchic

[Booger666]

That was awesome!! Made up for the crap episodes they put us through up till now.

[Stella Rose]

Can someone please slip me a double shot of cynicism, please.  I am actually weepy over this damn show.   I think Sam got me in the personals with her grandparents comment.  My grandparents have been married for 72 years - When I think about that...  I am 45 and have never really had anyone *truly* love me. 

 

So yeah, personalizing a bit.  Thought those two quirky nut-balls may just make it.    Snuffle.  I know Sam is thinking "Damn, I can't even keep a bug eyed wierdo like Neil.?"  I feel your pain sister. 

 

PS:  Season 4 - you are going without me.

 

Still pissed we never saw the sugar gliders.

[hoosiermom]

Holy crap! Ashley has soooo much make up on in the reunion preview. Yikes!

[Leanne]

Ugh I can't believe we had to suffer through Ashley being like "ummmmmmm" about everything they were packing up in their house in a monotone voice. She talks so slow and is so painful. I did like how David basically did a "talk to the hand" to her and walked out when she was trying (in her cold dead fish way) to explain herself. Ha! Also I saw a moment of disquieting, terrifying rage in Sam's eyes when she was processing that Neil said no before she ran out. I still think Neil made the right decision for him. She was really mean to him and sometimes there is no getting past how someone initially made you feel.

She is all on Twitter being contrite and taking responsibility. I just am not sure how sincere she is.

I don't think people have such big epiphanies in real life and change that fast . Maybe on TV but not in real life ;) also wtf at their last meeting and Sam acting baffled that Neil was worried about how she was feeling. She was trying to make Neil feel dumb and throw him off to punish him for what he chose. She is so transparent. And she was so fake (see what I did there?) pretending she was all fine and had to run at the end because she had so much to do. I wish the last shot would have been Neil running away from the house, jumping in the air and clicking his heels together. I just don't feel bad for sam because they showed some footage of her crying. I don't like her and I think she is a leopard who will never change its spots.

Edited March 2, 2016 by aethera

[ralph]

Sam's stone-faced "I'm okay" the next morning after storming out of a room and sobbing on the sidewalk is giving me strong *fake* vibes and lowkey *murderer* vibes. The viewers are not stupid, girl you are NOT okay.

Edited March 2, 2016 by ralph

[Adeejay]

For six weeks, Ashley didn't have anything to say to David, but now that it's over she wants to have a conversation.  Bitch puleeze!  I am glad Neil bailed.  I don't believe Samantha gave one crap about him, she just didn't want to be embarrassed on National Television.  I am happy for Vanessa and Tres.  Hopefully, they will be together for a very long time. 

Edited March 2, 2016 by Adeejay

[Leanne]

Holy crap! Ashley has soooo much make up on in the reunion preview. Yikes!

Dear god it's like an entire Sephora store puked in her face! And did you see the attitude she was giving? I didn't think she could get any worse but she showed me!!!!

Edited March 2, 2016 by Leanne

[ralph]

Say what you want about Ashley, but you guys know she had a point. David is more in love with the fantasy of being married then he's in love with Ashley. He fought so hard for a women who made it clear she didn't want him. What kind of self respecting man would be all over her the way he was after all that rejection. If people want to praise Neil for growing a pair, we have to look over and realize how David sill has yet to.

[sisterscouch]

I think Neil was afraid of Sam. He had to wait until a camera crew and experts were around to confess how he truly felt. Also after Neil said he wanted a divorce I was waiting for Sam to run outside and lay in the ground like she did on their wedding day. It would truly have came full circle.....

Ashley in the burlesque costume with full make up at the reunion=wtf?

How in the world can we take David seriously video taping a message to his next wife on the same day as his first divorce??? If he was so invested in Ashley I feel like he would have been too sad to have even thought about the next relationship let alone his next marriage. He knew darn well she was going to ask for divorce and he had the whole spiel concocted in his head before decision day even happened.

[sleekandchic]

For six weeks, Ashley didn't have anything to say to David, but now that it's over she wants to have a conversation. Bitch puleeze! I am glad Neil bailed. I don't believe Samantha gave one crap about him, she just didn't want to be embarrassed on National Television. I am happy for Vanessa and Tres. Hopefully, it lasts.

Ashley wanted more camera time, that's all.

Not enough Belle, Marley and Nola tonight. The dogs were much more human than the so-called humans this season, to me. Woof!

 

NEIL. He finally located his balls and stood up for himself. I love it.

Sam appears to be taking ownership on Twitter, so at least that's refreshing.

Sam has been playing social media since the season started. She's a phony manipulator, imo, and not a genuine person.

Leanne, David did a Rhett Butler! Don't forget they're in Atlanta. :)

[Empress1]

Can someone please slip me a double shot of cynicism, please. I am actually weepy over this damn show. I think Sam got me in the personals with her grandparents comment. My grandparents have been married for 72 years - When I think about that... I am 45 and have never really had anyone *truly* love me.

My grandparents were married 54 years before my grandmother died. She got cancer. My grandfather was at the hospital every minute of visiting hours. She died six years before he did and he visited her grave almost every single day. When I think of marriage, that's what I think of. I wasn't moved by Sam's tears but I did think of that when I saw her.

Called it! What struck me about Sam's speech was that she STILL talked about herself. It was all about how SHE was a better person because of Neil. I knew when they were in bed that he was leaning toward no. He didn't make much eye contact with her. I'm glad Neil grew a pair. She was just ... mean to him at the beginning. Outright mean. And that has consequences.

... I'm still kind of back on the fact that in six weeks, 2/3 of these couples didn't do more than kiss on the cheek.

[Evil Queen]

My opinion? Samantha is a manipulative, lying phony. Her sobs and (largely) tearless "crying" leave me cold.

There's not a doubt in my mind that if Neil had announced first -- and said he wanted to stay married -- that she would have said NO! in a second. Her comment about leaving for Costa Rica the next day? If true, those tickets were likely booked BEFORE Decision Day. She couldn't go to his family wedding in Vegas last week cuz she couldn't get time off from work, but she's on her way to Costa Rica? Manipulation and game playing. If Neil had stupidly sad Yes, I'm sure Sam would have said Surprise! -- I'm leaving for Costa Rica tomorrow to DECOMPRESS Without you!

Sam is all about control and oneupsmanship. Did Neil say he thought something was "missing" in her? I've thought the same thing since her wedding day insanity.

She said she wants a family? Why didn't the Experts discuss the lack of physicality between two of the couples? Huge elephants in the room.

Not sure Vanessa and Tres will last but happy they're trying! Their children would be gorgeously beautiful. (Not that that's a reason to stay married.)

 

Thank you for saying all that. She did exactly what narcissistic bullies do. They will cry big fake croc tears when its not there way or they can't be the one to hurt you in some way shape or form. I have no doubt if Neil had said yes before she gave an answer that she would have said no and gone all wackjob mean on him for why. Since he said no she had to play victim, pity me crap. Sadly people fall for that all the time but they will always be mean bitter horrible people in life. 

 

This show is finished if a majority of contestants can't stay together

 

You would think but then look at how long the Bachelor has been on and how many did they get from that show that married and lasted? LOL

 

Ugh I can't believe we had to suffer through Ashley being like "ummmmmmm" about everything they were packing up in their house in a monotone voice. She talks so slow and is so painful. I did like how David basically did a "talk to the hand" to her and walked out when she was trying (in her cold dead fish way) to explain herself. Ha! Also I saw a moment of disquieting, terrifying rage in Sam's eyes when she was processing that Neil said no before she ran out. I still think Neil made the right decision for him. She was really mean to him and sometimes there is no getting past how someone initially made you feel.

She is all on Twitter being contrite and taking responsibility. I just am not sure how sincere she is.

I don't think people have such big epiphanies in real life and change that fast . Maybe on TV but not in real life ;) also wtf at their last meeting and Sam acting baffled that Neil was worried about how she was feeling. She was trying to make Neil feel dumb and throw him off to punish him for what he chose. She is so transparent. And she was so fake (see what I did there?) pretending she was all fine and had to run at the end because she had so much to do. I wish the last shot would have been Neil running away from the house, jumping in the air and clicking his heels together. I just don't feel bad for sam because they showed some footage of her crying. I don't like her and I think she is a leopard who will never change its spots.

 

I wouldn't buy her twitter act considering she has tried it before and the second someone says something she doesn't like she flies off the handle and goes back to bitch mode

. People like her can't change over night...if ever. Really what would Ashley explain to David. More umm or I can't give you an answer right now? She was checked out from the get go. Nothing more to it then she is superficial.

[zooey]

So yeah, personalizing a bit.  Thought those two quirky nut-balls may just make it.    Snuffle.  I know Sam is thinking "Damn, I can't even keep a bug eyed wierdo like Neil.?"  I feel your pain sister. 

 

PS:  Season 4 - you are going without me.

 

Still pissed we never saw the sugar gliders.

 

Lol. I have to admit I felt bad for Sam. Granted, she reacted badly and didn't handle the situation of being married to a stranger well... but to be dumped like that? Nobody deserves to be blindsided like that. Part of me thinks that she thought she had more time to sort things out, holding on to Neil's pronouncement that he was in it for the long haul. 

 

On a different note, I personally don't understand why the women this season got all the flak. David appeared to be needy and pushy while Tres was clearly overcompensating with all that gift-giving. And Neil, well, he never really got around to expressing himself to his partner when it really mattered. He, in fact, had the same expression on his face every time he was interviewed throwing words like "exciting" and "commitment" all throughout the show.   

Edited March 2, 2016 by zooey

[Evil Queen]

On a different note, I personally don't understand why the women this season got all the flak. David appeared to be needy and pushy while Tres was clearly overcompensating with all that gift-giving. And Neil, well, he never really got around to expressing himself to his partner when it really mattered. He, in fact, had the same expression on his face every time he was interviewed throwing words like "exciting" and "commitment" all throughout the show.   

 

I have seen plenty give David flak for that stuff and Tres lately too. There was few saying things about Neil as well. The problem is how many times did the stupid experts tell David to keep trying. Which I can imagine he didn't want to come off on tv as the one that wasn't in it. Even though I think if he had just been like "I'm done" most of us would have been fine with it. I think the plug should have been pulled though on them when she told Dr. C she wasn't into David and basically never would be. Why push it anymore after that? I'm sure they could have found a way to keep that crap going on. It wasn't good tv at all. Tres with the gift giving was coming off producer driven. I don't care what they say about producers not having a hand in things because its obvious they do. If it was producer driven then I'd like to know why he was because that is not the normal way to be. With Neil the few times he tried to say things to Sam, well she had a fit each time or if he talked to her about his family and himself she was not interested in hearing it. She made that so clear. The face thing, well not everyone would be that way obviously but hey there are those that get that way. Some do even more so when they have to do with a camera. But back to expressing himself, I think if he had been given a nice girl and not a bully it would have been a lot different with how he was. 

[Primetimer]

The final two couples decide whether to stay or go. Whose Decision Day is the most traumatic?

Read the story

[ChristmasJones]

OMG I was doing major fist pumps when Neil said he wanted a divorce. GO NEIL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

And when David didn't let Ashley talk to him and just walked out on her.

 

Best two moments of this entire season!!!!! WHOOOO HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

 

Does Neil have twitter?

 

I would seriously create an account just so I could tweet that GIF to him!!! LOL

[moonxyz]

This is going to be a very unpopular opinion but Neil is a punk. Sam for all her faults is at least honest.

I don't get not discussing the decision beforehand, unless he wanted to publicly humiliate her. His decision was the right one but he should have remained a class act till the end. Instead he comes across and petty and vindictive. I don't even like Sam but Neil was an asshole.

[zooey]

I have seen plenty give David flak for that stuff and Tres lately too. There was few saying things about Neil as well. The problem is how many times did the stupid experts tell David to keep trying. Which I can imagine he didn't want to come off on tv as the one that wasn't in it. Even though I think if he had just been like "I'm done" most of us would have been fine with it. I think the plug should have been pulled though on them when she told Dr. C she wasn't into David and basically never would be. Why push it anymore after that? I'm sure they could have found a way to keep that crap going on. It wasn't good tv at all. Tres with the gift giving was coming off producer driven. I don't care what they say about producers not having a hand in things because its obvious they do. If it was producer driven then I'd like to know why he was because that is not the normal way to be. With Neil the few times he tried to say things to Sam, well she had a fit each time or if he talked to her about his family and himself she was not interested in hearing it. She made that so clear. The face thing, well not everyone would be that way obviously but hey there are those that get that way. Some do even more so when they have to do with a camera. But back to expressing himself, I think if he had been given a nice girl and not a bully it would have been a lot different with how he was. 

 

I think there's more pressure on the part of the men to appear extra patient and cordial throughout the process but where does one draw the line between being/appearing to be a gentleman and being truthful to the process? I know it's a reality show but sometimes I wish that both the participants and the experts had the nerve to call a spade a spade. It seems like they always have to contend with the idea of how they will be portrayed and how viewers will react on social media, maybe even honoring their contracts, that most of their energy is placed into creating this farce in order to string viewers along. 

 

I remember seeing a couple from Married at First Sight Australia bowing out early on. The couple talked it out and decided not to waste each other's time-- it just wasn't working. I wish the US version had the same commitment to being true to the experiment, at least make things more authentic. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work.    

[upstage]

My guilty pleasure is over for another season. I really think that this was the weakest season, because it took place in Atlanta.  The people involved simply weren't as sophisticated or interesting as were the couples in the previous seasons in New York. Next one is supposed to take place in Miami...that should have more energy. Other than Sam the loon, the rest were boring and at times whiney. Things worked out the way I figured them.  The most intriguing person was actually the dour Ms. Ashlee. To her credit, she was very rational and correct about her final decision. That guy was just to needy.  Needy is never attractive....However, she was a real cold fish. What tipped me off about her coldness and lack of humor was at her bachelorette party. She took the joy and fun out of the room when she refused to let the male strippers perform.  You could see her friends were disappointed.   Being married to Ashlee would be a dreary life indeed. A lot of apologizing and stony silence.

[Snarklepuss]

I actually think that in Sam's own strange mind she fell for Neil.  I don't think she was only concerned with how she would be perceived or she would never have run and sobbed like that making herself look so vulnerable and caught with her pants down on TV.  Unless she wanted to play victim to make him feel guilty or have others feel sorry for her, but still her reaction was so in the moment I didn't sense that much calculation.  I definitely think Neil was getting her back for the first few weeks in keeping his feelings from her and making her think there was some hope, and then dropping the bomb so coldly.  So he was definitely being vindictive here - not a quality I admire in anyone.  While Sam is a piece of work I think Neil got lucky in that her emotional volatility totally obstructed the view of his emotional constipation and lack of empathy.  I am not going to give him a pass on that just because Sam had issues.  I personally think that any woman with any real emotional depth would be horribly unhappy with him.  I could NEVER see myself in a relationship with a guy like him.  I was the first here to call him "Sheldon Cooper" and he totally lived up to that for me tonight.  I don't think Neil can handle complicated emotions or people who have no problem expressing them.  While Sam was certainly a roller coaster ride of emotions, I don't think he can handle even a more stable individual who wasn't similarly emotionally constipated.  Neil showed himself to me tonight to be a very limited person - Someone who is not evolved enough emotionally to handle a deep, intimate relationship with anyone but an automaton like himself.  Speaking of automatons, perhaps he would have been better matched with Ashley.  She certainly wouldn't have placed too many emotional demands on him, that's for sure.  The only problem is that Neil isn't classically good looking enough for Ashley.

 

My reality check on Neil was Mr. Snarklepuss.  Before I gave him my opinion after the show I asked him what he thought.  He said, "Neil's a creep like Basement Ryan because he hides it from the world until he is called on to be a real human being and then he shows his true colors  Only I think Neil is an even worse creep because he still probably has most of the world snowed into thinking he's this really great guy.  I thought he was one myself until now.  Any guy who really had it all together would not have acted that way to Sam no matter what she did to him earlier in the relationship".  He also called him very passive aggressive.  Amen, Mr. Snarklepuss, I knew there was a reason I married you!  Seriously, nothing she did should excuse his behavior.  I don't care if she deserved it, he definitely didn't achieve being "the better person" by being so cold and detached from the situation.  To me that spoke volumes about his limited range of character and a very chilling mean streak in him that he would never even be aware existed because he is so totally divorced from his own feelings.

 

Sam of course still has narcissistic tendencies, but on the other hand I got genuine vibes from her regarding her feelings for Neil.  I think her falling for him could have been self defeating behavior.  It may have played into some of her own relationship issues which she was re-enacting to some degree with Neil.  I don't think it was calculated to the extent that some people do but I think she was trying to "save face" by meeting with him the next day and acting like she was just fine.  I don't know which one was the act - the sobbing when he told her he wanted to divorce, or the brave face the day after.  Or perhaps neither was a lie.  The brave face doesn't necessarily mean everything she said she felt about him was a lie either.  She might not like looking like a fool on TV and wanted to correct that image but that doesn't necessarily mean she didn't really fall for Neil either.

This is going to be a very unpopular opinion but Neil is a punk. Sam for all her faults is at least honest.

I don't get not discussing the decision beforehand, unless he wanted to publicly humiliate her. His decision was the right one but he should have remained a class act till the end. Instead he comes across and petty and vindictive. I don't even like Sam but Neil was an asshole.

 

Your opinion is not unpopular with me - we posted at around the same time and you pretty much summed up everything I said in only two sentences!

Edited March 2, 2016 by Snarklepuss

[Madding crowd]

I'm happy for Tres and Vanessa; they both seem like really sweet people and i hope things work out for them. They both seem kind of low energy at the end, but I'm guessing it was exhaustion from the pressure of the show. I really wonder if any of the couples (not David and Ashley obviously), talked about it in more detail beforehand, it sure doesn't seem so.

 

For those saying Sam wasn't really crying; when she was outside and Dr. Pepper came out to see her, she was crying so hard she was almost hysterical. Honestly, I don't see how anyone can be happy for the misery of another human being. Neil was his usual stone faced self throughout the show. i now wonder if Neil had any intention of actually being married. Sam at least acknowledged her mistakes, Neil has been withholding his feelings, withholding affection, and not making much of an effort. 

 

I actually ended the show by feeling kind of bummed out overall, and I hope the next show won't show Tres and Vanessa broke up. 

[ElectricCityy]

I didn't watch this episode or last week's but for much of the season Sam was a bit of bully to Neil. Happy he peaced out.

[BunnySlippers]

This is going to be a very unpopular opinion but Neil is a punk. Sam for all her faults is at least honest.

I don't get not discussing the decision beforehand, unless he wanted to publicly humiliate her. His decision was the right one but he should have remained a class act till the end. Instead he comes across and petty and vindictive. I don't even like Sam but Neil was an asshole.

I've been saying similar things in the Spoiler thread since this episode had been seen by a few people last week and we got a run down on it. And I've just posted this in that forum:

 

"My big problem with Neil's wording of his decision is that he started it with "I am committed." Maybe it's just me, but to me that was pretty misleading, because all this time people have been talking about being committed to the process, being committed to the marriage, being committed to making it work. I don't know if he did it on purpose, but it seemed to me like starting his speech that way might have first invoked a false hope, which then he crushed with the rest of his sentence. I understand that this was the best decision for him, but wording it this way seemed pretty cold to me."

I totally agree with you, Snarklepuss (and Mr. Snarklepuss!), and Madding Crowd, about Neil and Sam.

 

And there's one thing I don't understand: In the previews, they kept showing what looked like Sam and Neil holding hands during decision time. But I didn't see that in this show. So what was that about? Or did I just miss it tonight?

[Evil Queen]

I think there's more pressure on the part of the men to appear extra patient and cordial throughout the process but where does one draw the line between being/appearing to be a gentleman and being truthful to the process? I know it's a reality show but sometimes I wish that both the participants and the experts had the nerve to call a spade a spade. It seems like they always have to contend with the idea of how they will be portrayed and how viewers will react on social media, maybe even honoring their contracts, that most of their energy is placed into creating this farce in order to string viewers along. 

 

I remember seeing a couple from Married at First Sight Australia bowing out early on. The couple talked it out and decided not to waste each other's time-- it just wasn't working. I wish the US version had the same commitment to being true to the experiment, at least make things more authentic. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work.    

 

I agree. Its a shame they don't take a cue from that one on what should be done. Experts should be calling these people out on their crap as needed or when they are obviously not listening and acting like a bobblehead. When these couples aren't meant for each other it should be done and over with. The experts should be seeing footage as its being filmed so they have a better understand of things as well and can say things to them to better help them or just say let's end this since its not working out. 

 

 

For those saying Sam wasn't really crying; when she was outside and Dr. Pepper came out to see her, she was crying so hard she was almost hysterical. Honestly, I don't see how anyone can be happy for the misery of another human being. Neil was his usual stone faced self throughout the show. i now wonder if Neil had any intention of actually being married. Sam at least acknowledged her mistakes, Neil has been withholding his feelings, withholding affection, and not making much of an effort. 

 

 

If she actually understood her mistakes she wouldn't have been repeating them over and over and

been a bully on SM as well when she didn't like what was said to her.

I don't blame him for withholding a thing from her...if he did. People like her don't want to hear anything about how you feel or think. It is suppose to be all about them and nothing more. They don't give you a chance to put the effort you normally would into things unless its how they want it done. Narcissistic bullies know how to put on the tears also when they need to so they get that pity as needed and if its about someone else to make you think that other person is so bad for making you cry. I never want to see people miserable but there is a time when some get what they deserve. If you want to be a bully all your life and get it back one day I don't pity what happens if it gives you a taste of your own medicine. Sometimes it can be the only way to get it across to a bully and sometimes they just will put on the pity me guilt trip and play victim to those that will give it to them. Let me just add that people like her make you want to shut down and not feel a damn thing around them so you don't give anything for them to come at you with. 

[Madding crowd]

But she didn't repeat it over and over; she changed and the last few weeks of the experiment she tried to be a wife to Neil. Are you saying you have never made a mistake? I think if people make mistakes, own up to them and try to make amends, I would forgive them. Not saying Neil needs to stay married, but he obviously does forgive her. I also don't agree that Neil made much of an effort at all. Marriage has to be two people working hard, not one. I try to have empathy for people and I even have some for Ashley, because I don't know her and don't know what was happening when the cameras weren't rolling. 

[Leanne]

I agree. Its a shame they don't take a cue from that one on what should be done. Experts should be calling these people out on their crap as needed or when they are obviously not listening and acting like a bobblehead. When these couples aren't meant for each other it should be done and over with. The experts should be seeing footage as its being filmed so they have a better understand of things as well and can say things to them to better help them or just say let's end this since its not working out.

If she actually understood her mistakes she wouldn't have been repeating them over and over and

been a bully on SM as well when she didn't like what was said to her.

I don't blame him for withholding a thing from her...if he did. People like her don't want to hear anything about how you feel or think. It is suppose to be all about them and nothing more. They don't give you a chance to put the effort you normally would into things unless its how they want it done. Narcissistic bullies know how to put on the tears also when they need to so they get that pity as needed and if its about someone else to make you think that other person is so bad for making you cry. I never want to see people miserable but there is a time when some get what they deserve. If you want to be a bully all your life and get it back one day I don't pity what happens if it gives you a taste of your own medicine. Sometimes it can be the only way to get it across to a bully and sometimes they just will put on the pity me guilt trip and play victim to those that will give it to them. Let me just add that people like her make you want to shut down and not feel a damn thing around them so you don't give anything for them to come at you with.

I agree with what you have said here 100 percent and I co-sign! Those kind of people turn on the tears as soon as they don't get their way or are called out on their cr@p to deflect away from their own actions that resulted in them crying and not getting their own way in the first place . It's also easy if you have the misfortune to deal with a narcissist to try to protect yourself by giving very little away in terms of feelings, thoughts and emotions; they just seek to use them against you as a weapon or they file it away as Intel to use later when it suits their purpose. Any weakness you show can and will be exploited if it suits their purpose. I think Neil had to be a blank slate after awhile. When he was happy at the wedding and joking with the onsie and trying on the honeymoon to get to know her she just flipped on him and acted like he was so beneath her. I think he quickly learned to become a shell so that she was less likely to know his vulnerabilities to prey on. I have known and know people like Sam. They are emotional vampires and their sh!t isn't worth putting up with if you don't have to. I am glad he said see ya to her! I just hope they don't announce they are dating at the six month reunion or something!

[ChristmasJones]

Regardless of any of Neil's faults, I do believe that Sam revealed she has, at a bare minimum, serious emotion regulation problems in the first couple of weeks.  I think her volatility and anger at the beginning just caused Neil to crawl into his shell like a hermit crab. I don't blame him. She was a total stranger, so no history to fall back on.  There is a reason for the saying "you never get a second chance to make a first impression."  She blew her first impression.  I can understand why Neil couldn't just get past that, even if she did a turn around.

 

I say these things not because I am a Neil fan. I just think that based on what we saw from Sam, I don't fault him for deciding to end it

Edited March 2, 2016 by ChristmasJones

[yb125]

I suspect that Niel's decision didn't seem as mean in real life, because no one who was there live suggested that, I think editing must have played a role.

[sleekandchic]

ChristmasJones, I find myself flashing back to the wedding episode, when a couple of Sam's family and friends said Neil was going to have his hands full with Sam. These were people who knew Sam, lived with, and loved Sam.

Tonight, Sam "cried" about her desire for a family, for love and stability. She has that though. Does she not realize what she already has?

Her friendship/cohabitation with Sammie is real. I think she said they've lived together for 7 or 9 years? Sam also said Sammies bedroom is their sanctuary for decompression.

Be happy and grateful for finding that kind of friendship.

Edited March 2, 2016 by sleekandchic