S11.E15: Beyond The Mat

[Demented Daisy]

Well, yeah, that's understandable.  I'm just trying to make the best of a bad situation.  ;-)

[catrox14]

I have another question.

Can someone explain why Crowley, a crossroads demon with red eyes and still King of Hell, could withstand the actual power of God without being killed by it? I mean shouldn't that have killed him like an angel blade or being brain fried by angel grace??

[Omegamom]

Well, there are those theories floating around that he's actually a fallen angel. (Presumably taking up residence in Fergus MacLeod's baby body, like Anna Milton did. But then, that makes one wonder why his "soul" -- or whatever Angels possess -- went to Hell...)

[catrox14]

Well, there are those theories floating around that he's actually a fallen angel. (Presumably taking up residence in Fergus MacLeod's baby body, like Anna Milton did. But then, that makes one wonder why his "soul" -- or whatever Angels possess -- went to Hell...)

 

Oh gods. I hope that's not true. That would just be....nope.  I mean can't a twisted human soul just be a twisted human soul?? What's a demon gotta do to just be recognized as a demon!

 

The question about Crowley's soul is interesting because back in s8 he tried to auction his soul but the demon dealer said he didn't have one. Maybe Crowley is just soulless like Sam was?

[DittyDotDot]

I have another question.

Can someone explain why Crowley, a crossroads demon with red eyes and still King of Hell, could withstand the actual power of God without being killed by it? I mean shouldn't that have killed him like an angel blade or being brain fried by angel grace??

 

I just assumed it's because Crowley isn't human anymore and a demon can handle a higher voltage than humans can. 

 

Basically: humans are 120 volt outlets; I'd put stunt demons at the 220-volt range and King of Hell a lot higher than that. Hand of God would probably need more than a stunt demon can provide, less than the King of Hell.

 

I don't know, but it's a theory anyway.

[AwesomO4000]

Okay, so I'm kind of obsessed with the wound on Dean's thigh. 

 

He told Gunnar he got it a couple of years back. So when did that bite happen?

 

We didn't see a stab wound on his chest after Metatron killed him and resurrected as a demon so the assumption was that the Mark healed him? Then we saw him heal himself when he was a demon..so why wouldn't he heal that bite?  And even after he was cured of being a demon, he couldn't die so then his wounds would heal right?

 

So did he get bit this season and we don't know? 

Is this just bad writing to give Dean a bonding moment with his idol or a reveal of something bigger with Dean? 

 

Help me suss this out, peeps. It's really bugging me.

 

Maybe he got it in purgatory? In which case it would've been scarred over before all of his healing abilities happened, so nothing to heal. Even if he could've fixed scars when he was a demon, maybe there's a story/memory that goes with the scar, so he kept it rather than doing that?

 

I think you need to write a fanfic background story for it. ; )

[catrox14]

Maybe he got it in purgatory? In which case it would've been scarred over before all of his healing abilities happened, so nothing to heal. Even if he could've fixed scars when he was a demon, maybe there's a story/memory that goes with the scar, so he kept it rather than doing that?

 

I think you need to write a fanfic background story for it. ; )

 

Are you saying it's a war wound from his time trying to save Cas and hanging with Benny? And he has an emotional attachment to it?

 

Head!canon accepted LOL

[EverCat]

I knew nothing about this episode other than the fact that it was about wrestling/wrestlers and, I really enjoyed it.  I knew from the breakout that the Female Aid/Crowley escape was a set up by Lucifer.  ...

The wrestling stuff was great, I really enjoyed the boys being boys and having fun reliving their youth with the Old Time Wrestlers.  I had no idea that the young punk/kid was an actual wrestler, he did a good job in the scene where he turned the Crossroads demon down.  The older Wrestler (that Dean idolized) was good as well.  Any idea on the actor?  He looked so familiar to me but i can't place him.

That's Canadian actor (originally from Winnipeg), Aleks Paunovic. he turns up in a lot of shows, especially those filmed in Vancouver.

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0006820/

[SueB]

Well that was adorable.  I've been working looooooooong hours so I haven't had much time to comment (or sleep or rewatch or ANYTHING).  But I got to rewatch this one before commenting so I'll put in my two cents:

 

Shy Dean is a precious thing.  Yes, I immediately went meta there -- it's like Jensen/Dean was being one of "us".  It was so adorable, and as he's seen it from the other side, it was nice that it was played so adorable.  Thank you Jensen Ackles. But then watching the brothers relive a childhood memory was precious too.  First it was just hard not to smile, to laugh. It was infectious.  But then it was kinda sad.  Brought back the Weechester feels on steroids.  Dean was NEVER a child. And now? Now he lets himself go - completely - like a child can let himself go.  And it's so bittersweet.  *sigh*  And Sam was totally into it as well.  Yes, he was all adult about stuff until Rio showed up and then he also awkward'd adorable.  And he was so pumped during the fight. It's nice to see him let loose a bit. 

 

And I also like how gritty the Wrestler life was portrayed.  If felt like a throw-back to earlier years.  And in a good way. 

 

What I got from Crowley and Casifer: Lucifer is one sadistic bastard. With all the joking and innuendos, his true evil nature also showed IMO. He and Zachariah are a pair.  Petty, vindictive.  But Lucifer has so much more power.  I want him defeated and not in a funny way. 

 

On a lighter note: Crowley is such a Dean fanboy.  Him hiding the Supernatural books? Well, I like that. 

 

Finally: so what does this latest episode mean?  Since I personally believe they are building a story, I think this is a step towards Dean getting his groove back.  He had FUN. He was able to look at an idol and see some redemption.  I'm not sure I actually agreed with that BTW.  I certainly believe in redemption but Gunner murdered a BUNCH of people.  Sparing Dean and killing the demon was good, but just saying he deserved what he got (an eternity in hell, dragged by Hell Hounds) didn't feel like it respected his victims enough.  It felt more like self-loathing.  OTOH, I did like that they at least made an allusion to Dean's time in hell.  Seems like he's always the one to recognize when Hell Hounds are coming. And Jensen manages to make you feel like he's having a PTSD moment inside when he says those words. 

[blueeyessmile]

I really enjoyed this ep, because I like any chance to see the brothers bonding and reliving childhood memories and history.

I definitely think the MOTW eps have been greatly improved this season (compared to the last few seasons).

They seem to be more interesting and unique plot points, quite humorous. I also like the way they are linking to the themes of the season throughout these filler episodes.

 

So....I have a question for you guys.

 

What's your thoughts on Sam in this episode? Something I was confused by... 

 

In particular during the first scene, he seemed to be moving stiffly and suffering from a headache. We saw him ask Dean for painkillers?

 

I rewatched the episode but there didn't seem to be any obvious reason why or not that I saw mentioned.

 

I have two theories-

 

1) Sam was recovering from Casifer touching his soul in the previous episode. We know for the past that this can be painful but I'm not sure about long term ramifications of this?

 

2) Sam may be having visions or dreams again. (Not much proof but it's kinda my hope/head!canon)

I think this is based on his grimace of pain and pinching of the bridge of his nose - that was to me classic vision headache Sam.

Maybe his visions weren't from Lucifer after all? Or maybe Lucifer can still tap into Sam's noggin?

It would be interesting to explore Sam's powers more - were they purely fuelled by the demon blood? Does he still have demon blood in him?

I also think it would be great if the visions were really from a higher power so Sam's faith was vindicated.

 

What are your thoughts?

 

 

 

[Bruinsfan]

He didn't manage to make me feel like there was any underlying trauma in his recognition.

 

I can't really fault Misha for his portrayal of Lucifer since he's just mimicking Pellegrino's hammy one-note performance. I thought Bellamy Young and even Padalecki gave the character much more complexity and nuance when they played him. You got the feeling this was an old, powerful being with majesty and grandeur instead of a petulant schoolyard bully.

[NoWillToResist]

I can't really fault Misha for his portrayal of Lucifer since he's just mimicking Pellegrino's hammy one-note performance. I thought Bellamy Young and even Padalecki gave the character much more complexity and nuance when they played him. You got the feeling this was an old, powerful being with majesty and grandeur instead of a petulant schoolyard bully.

 

In an interview with Misha (I think with EW?), he said he asked Pellegrino for help/advice etc. and Pellegrino said that 'everyone is a toy to Lucifer' and 'Lucifer wants to have sex with everyone'. Based on the bits I've seen, Misha is hitting the first bit of advice to a T. I have really felt that Casifer feels (thinly) veiled contempt for everyone he encounters and thinks everyone's beneath him.

 

It must be nice for Misha though, to not use the Cas voice and to actually get to be expressive for a change...

Edited February 26, 2016 by NoWillToResist

[Bessie]

Collins portrayal of Lucifer has really brought home to me the important role directors play. Badam seems to get the best out of him, while Wright (Devil in the Details) did him no favors at all. He still has his mugging moments which pull me right out of the scene, but I do think he's steadily improving. I hated Lucifer in this episode and I'm hopeful that it wasn't just because of the squick factor of puppy Crowley and the licking of the floor.

I thought Wanek did an okay job directing Collins, but I also think some of that was because the Lucifer scenes were all with Crowley. Sheppard and Collins play off each other really well.

[DittyDotDot]

I really enjoyed this ep, because I like any chance to see the brothers bonding and reliving childhood memories and history.

I definitely think the MOTW eps have been greatly improved this season (compared to the last few seasons).

They seem to be more interesting and unique plot points, quite humorous. I also like the way they are linking to the themes of the season throughout these filler episodes.

 

So....I have a question for you guys.

 

What's your thoughts on Sam in this episode? Something I was confused by... 

 

In particular during the first scene, he seemed to be moving stiffly and suffering from a headache. We saw him ask Dean for painkillers?

 

I rewatched the episode but there didn't seem to be any obvious reason why or not that I saw mentioned.

 

I have two theories-

 

1) Sam was recovering from Casifer touching his soul in the previous episode. We know for the past that this can be painful but I'm not sure about long term ramifications of this?

 

2) Sam may be having visions or dreams again. (Not much proof but it's kinda my hope/head!canon)

I think this is based on his grimace of pain and pinching of the bridge of his nose - that was to me classic vision headache Sam.

Maybe his visions weren't from Lucifer after all? Or maybe Lucifer can still tap into Sam's noggin?

It would be interesting to explore Sam's powers more - were they purely fuelled by the demon blood? Does he still have demon blood in him?

I also think it would be great if the visions were really from a higher power so Sam's faith was vindicated.

 

What are your thoughts?

 

I didn't think Lucifer-in-a-Cass touched Sam's soul in the last episode. Sam suggested it when he thought it was Cass and didn't think he had enough power, but once Lucifer outted himself, they didn't really need that.

 

Anyway, I just thought Sam had a headache from staying up all night researching again. Seems like he's been doing this quite a bit lately. That's why Dean said they needed to get out of the bunker. I didn't get the sense anything was "wrong" with him, but I could totally be wrong there. 

 

He didn't manage to make me feel like there was any underlying trauma in his recognition.

 

I can't really fault Misha for his portrayal of Lucifer since he's just mimicking Pellegrino's hammy one-note performance. I thought Bellamy Young and even Padalecki gave the character much more complexity and nuance when they played him. You got the feeling this was an old, powerful being with majesty and grandeur instead of a petulant schoolyard bully.

 

But, as I understood it, SPN Lucifer has no grandeur and majesty, but was basically a petulant child throwing a fit. I thought Pelligrino hit those notes fine. Collins--again, I adore you Misha--has been doing the most hammy imitation of Pelligrino rather than finding his own petulant child. He's basically winking at the camera and entering scenes like he's on a sitcom or something. I agree, it was much better in the previous episode, though. 

Edited February 26, 2016 by DittyDotDot

[SueB]

Lucifer definitely did a soul-o-noscopy on Sam (hence the screaming) but I think Cas stopped it before it did any real damage.  I'm pretty sure Sam's headache came from being on a long-term caffeine bender. That Dean already knew what Sam needed (asprin) without being told is indicative that this was not the first time. That Dean had the asprin right next to him indicates he's probably on a caffeine bender too.

 

BTW, I agree that John Badham's directing was well done.  I miss Guy Norman Bee.  He was really good at Supernatural episodes.  I hope he gets on the docket for next year.  I think Jerry did fine in this episode but it's a collaboration between writers/directors/actors/designers/lighting/editing.  I know I was very uncomfortable with the tongue licking scene - but I think we were supposed to be.  

[DittyDotDot]

Lucifer definitely did a soul-o-noscopy on Sam (hence the screaming) but I think Cas stopped it before it did any real damage.  

 

I didn't get the sense Lucifer-in-a-Cass was using the power of Sam's soul, but instead was trying to kill him (hence the screaming). All I meant was I didn't think Sam was recovering from having his soul almost ripped out of his body.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Supernatural Didn't REALLY Have To Strip Away One Of Dean's Very Last Illusions, Did It?
Liane is not a crackpot; she just thinks the show could have let the episode pass without ruining pro wrestling with demons.

[catrox14]

I don't think it was even a partial soul-n-oscopy for Sam.   IMO Cas stopped Lucifer from killing Sam and Sam's soul is intact as it was before Lucifer touched him. 

 

I took it that Dean and Sam had spent a week plus pulling all nighters and drinking all the caffeine and taking like energy pills (not speed though) and were exhausted from ALL the research.

 

I don't have an issue with Misha's Lucifer. 

 

IMO, Future!Samifer was just as a petulant. It came out when he told Dean that he had to bow down to these apes that were beneath him.  He hated it. I still say that's Jared's best work.  So to me Misha's portrayal is pretty consistent with the angry petulant brat that ekes out but now it's coming out more often.

 

Lucifer is an asshole. He always has been. It's just his tactics have changed and IMO his patience is next to nothing.

[mertensia]

I do love that Dean still hears hell hounds.

Why anyone thought Crowley of all beings would be unsuspicious is beyond me.

I liked showing the reality of life for these wrestlers but wrestling itself? No interest.

[MysteryGuest]

I enjoyed the episode.  It's always good to see the boys having a bit of fun for a change.  They really don't get to do that very often, and considering all they've sacrificed in their lives, they certainly deserve some fun once in a while.  Unfortunately, that fun was short-lived.  

 

I'm not a wrestling fan, but it was totally believable that Sam and Dean would have been into it as kids.  Especially if it was something their father enjoyed.  Again, I'm sure the fun times with their father were very few and far between, so I bet those are great memories for both of them.  

 

Much relieved that Crowley is officially out of the dog house.  The floor-licking scene was especially gross.  I may be a sap, but I'm looking forward to Crowley joining up with the boys to help save Cas and beat the Darkness.  I enjoy when they band together to fight the big bad, and I have to believe they will do it again this time.  With only 8 episodes to go, I really am wondering if this season will be the end.  I hope not.

Edited February 27, 2016 by MysteryGuest

[AwesomO4000]

Put me in the Lucifer did some soul-sucking from Sam camp. I remember Lucifer saying something like he didn't really need the power from Sam's soul, but since Sam offered so nicely, he would take that offer. I don't think Lucifer would turn down more power, especially since he was going to be using it up soon to make the second time travel trip. And his actions were pretty specific - it looked like when Castiel borrowed soul energy from Bobby or when he did the soul check up on Sam in season 6.

 

And no one else was there, so there was no need to make a flashy show of killing Sam if killing Sam was his intention. Unlike when Dean showed up - in which case Lucifer was playing with Dean and was taking his time to torment Sam. But in most cases when Lucifer is just going for the kill, he likes to do a matter-of-fact hand gesture (a point, finger snap, or hand movement)... either before a neck snap or a blowing up body. Like when he killed Mercury, Bobby, and Castiel. And it's quick. Sam is no match for Lucifer, so if killing him was the only intent - unlike in the substitute cage where Lucifer was having fun - I think he would've done it quickly.

 

Now whether or not my theorized soul-sapping had any effect on Sam's head still at the point of this episode is another question altogether, and I tend to think it's a combination of caffeine withdrawal and maybe smoothies. I don't know if Sam does straight energy drinks... but smoothie blast things I could see. And if there was any lingering tiredness from being soul-sucked, that would have an even greater chance of causing a headache if Sam had needed extra caffeine to combat the tiredness.

[Myrelle]

I loved this episode. Loved it. Dean Winchester-ever the Righteous Man and his tequila hangover was one for the books. I laughed so hard thinking how real it looked.

Love that Crowley is free and hope that he remains Dean's No.1 fan(and IMO, he should if he hopes/wants to win back his throne). BeautifulDean sharing shots in the bar with Gunnar and The Eyelash Porn in that scene when he was all tied up made this one more than worth a re-watch, but the best was Dean beginning to find his hunting mojo again. I'd still like a better look inside that beautiful but very messed up mind of his, though, before this storyline is over. This one was a good start to that, IMO.

 

I loved that the wrestling life so paralleled the brothers' hunting life. I know that the writing was very on the nose in this one, but it also worked in this one-maybe because of the OTT life of the wrestlers and their world.

[BlueMeanie]

Probably my least favorite episode of the season, but a lot of that could be due to my complete lack of interest in wrestling.  I did like the movie The Wrestler, but that didn't really have to do with the wrestling in the movie.  The episode actually reminded me a lot of that movie, with all the old, washed up wrestlers.

 

I liked the Crowley/Casifer scenes at Crowley's lock up.  It was nice to see Casifer get taken down a notch by Crowley and it is nice to have Crowley free again.  It was pretty obvious that the whole thing was a set-up by Casifer and it was also obvious that Crowley was aware it was a set-up, but I liked it anyway.

 

They seem to be setting it up that one of the "Hands of God" will be used to defeat Amara.  I really hope that neither sam nor Dean dies at the end of the season, but I also wonder why they would bring up The Empty if they weren't going to send at least one of them there.  Maybe they'll both die and the rest of the show will take place in The Empty. ;-)

 

Lots of movie quotes in this one.  Lucifer quoted the The Fugitive when he told the demons to search every outhouse, etc. and also Dodgeball when he told Crowley that he made him bleed his own blood (that one I had to look up, but I knew I'd heard it somewhere).  Dean quoted Ferris Bueller's Day Off.  I wonder if I missed any others.

 

I was covering my eyes when Dean was playing around in the wrestling ring, for some reason I was embarrassed for him.  Loved Dean's exit from the ring though.

 

Didn't like that Dean said Gunner was a good guy at the end.  He murdered people.  Yes he was doing it to keep himself from going to Hell, but he sold his soul for a wrestling title.  Not a good guy.  I was sad that Dean lost another one of his heroes though.  He's been taking a lot of hits lately.

 

I also didn't like that they talked about Sam hanging a poster over his bed when he was a kid.  Sam never had a room to put posters up in.

Edited February 28, 2016 by BlueMeanie

[Demented Daisy]

Lots of movie quotes in this one.  Lucifer quoted the The Fugitive when he told the demons to search every outhouse, etc. and also Dodgeball when he told Crowley that he made him bleed his own blood (that one I had to look up, but I knew I'd heard it somewhere).  

 

Actually, it's even older than that:

 

 

From the very first season of The Simpsons.  Okay, did I just show my age or what?  ;-)

[DittyDotDot]

Well, I wouldn't worry about it, Demented One, when I heard it in the episode I immediately thought how fitting it was that Crowley was Bart and Lucifer-in-a-Cass was Nelson. Yeah, I'm old too. ;)

[BlueMeanie]

Oh man, I didn't remember it was from The Simpsons.  I just knew I had heard it somewhere.  Dodgeball was the first thing that came up when I did a search, so I guess I should have dug deeper.  I haven't watched The Simpsons in ages.  I only watched the first maybe 5 seasons.  I also vaguely remember watching the shorts when it was part of The Tracey Ullman Show.

Edited February 28, 2016 by BlueMeanie

[mertensia]

I can see Sam putting up her poster in every motel that they spent a couple of weeks in.

[SueB]

I can envision a scenario where Sam carried around a poster and put it up. Given she was a blond (Sam AND John's type), I could see John 1) letting him spans money on it and 2) letting him put it up. In every motel and every outhouse, henhouse, doghouse, etc... They stayed. They didn't let housekeeping in (guns, unattended children) so he could get away with it. And yes, I spend way too much time thinking about it.

I also thought it was sweet that Dean bought a T-shirt. Sweet because I think that was some meta commentary in fandom buying SPN T-shirts (at conventions or otherwise).

[SueB]

I was covering my eyes when Dean was playing around in the wrestling ring, for some reason I was embarrassed for him. Loved Dean's exit from the ring though.

fremdschämen -vicarious embarrassment. I find it nearly debilitating.

[Omegamom]

Ooh! What a lovely word!

I did not feel that way with Dean's playing around, because he seemed so damned happy. It's nice to see he has dreams left over from childhood, and that he's still able to play with them. In fact, it's one of the things I liked so much about this episode -- that, even when the boys are in the midst of yet another Apocalyptic situation, there are moments when they can let the horror go away and just be totally in the moment and swept away by enjoying something. Y'know, "every cloud has a silver lining", "seize the day", etc.

I do have that feeling of vicarious embarassment in many sitcoms, where I have to leave the room when someone is in a horribly humiliating situation...

[catrox14]

Yeah the only time I feel second-hand embarrassment for Dean is when he's being gross with food. Dean is not a slob on any level that I've ever seen. He keeps his car spotless. He makes his bed and cleans his room. He organizes his porn and complains when his kitchen is trashed.  So why the hell Jensen makes that choice with Dean and has food hanging out of his mouth boggles my mind. Like does Jensen really think Dean is that kind of slob about food? It's weird.

 

But when Dean plays like he did in LARP and the Real Girl or here...or singing in the car. Just being silly...I love it.  Dean is a badass dork.

[Omegamom]

Speaking of the scene of Dean in the ring...apparently, according to a panel at NashCon, Jensen ad-libbed the entire thing.

[catrox14]

Speaking of the scene of Dean in the ring...apparently, according to a panel at NashCon, Jensen ad-libbed the entire thing.

 

 

I saw that. And he said he only did that roll once (which I figured because he came up in the exact same stance each time, which yes Jensen is a master but that would be tough to do.  And the best part is he stayed in "Dean" mode the whole time.  Damn it, Jensen. You are SUCH A SMART ACTOR, but if you could just stop making Dean a slob with food and occasionally dumb (jules verne who ad lib)  I would appreciate it.

[dr pepper]

I knew Crowley had a plan. But i was hoping he'd suddenly produce the Jawbone and decapitate Lucifer with it.

Btw, where is the Jawbone? For that matter, where is the Scythe? Either one could make a big difference.

[dr pepper]

Dean playing in the wrestling ring was magic! Made the whole episode worth watching!

I don't watch wrestling but I too know who the Miz is. Double damn you Real World and Road Rules!!

 

I would never play in a wrestling ring because one of the `rules' of wrestling is you get in the ring, you're fair game. I'd be too afraid a real wrestler would suddenly rush in and bodyslam me. That being said, it was kind of cool watching Dean do it.

 

I never watched RR/RR and i haven't watched wrestling in years, but i remember the Miz. He was awful.

[dr pepper]

I felt the crossroads demon altering his deal with the wrestler was a good way to show that the demons are going rogue and Hell is going to hell without anyone really being in charge. I don't think Crowley would have allowed an underling to be quite so independent.

 

Yeah, a crossroads demon must be LE or the system falls apart.

[dr pepper]

But I do cry foul on the boys rushing in to fight a demon, yet again, without any obvious plan, and getting telekinetically thrown around, yet again, and having to be saved by someone else. After so many similar fights, by now they would have a more effective tactic than run in and hope for the best.

 

No, that was the tactic. Dean gives the blade to Lawless, then distracts the demon. Lawless comes up and stabs the demon from behind while it's distracted fighting Dean.

[dr pepper]

I halfway expected Crowley to be in the bunker when the boys got back.

 

More than half for me. When Dean was making his "we will win" declaration, i kept expecting Crowley to suddenly add. "Glad to hear that-- what's our plan?". Then they look and he's coming out of their kitchen with a silly drink from the MOL's 1960 cocktail cupboard. How'd he get past the wards? That was the last bit of the power flare he got from the artifact.

Edited February 28, 2016 by dr pepper

[BlueMeanie]

When I watched the scene again there was no fremdschämen (thanks for the word SueB), not sure exactly why it bothered me the first time.

 

I knew Crowley had a plan. But i was hoping he'd suddenly produce the Jawbone and decapitate Lucifer with it.

Btw, where is the Jawbone? For that matter, where is the Scythe? Either one could make a big difference.

 

The First Blade only works if you have the Mark of Cain, so Crowley couldn't use it.  Cas hid it somewhere after Dean killed Cain.  I don't know where the scythe is, but I would hope Sam and Dean have it somewhere.

 

No, that was the tactic. Dean gives the blade to Lawless, then distracts the demon. Lawless comes up and stabs the demon from behind while it's distracted fighting Dean.

 

Lawless wasn't in on the plan though when they first rushed in, he was still working with the demon.

 

The Miz went to my college and was there at the same time I was, but I never met him.  I knew he was on Road Rules or whatever, but didn't know he was a wrestler.

[catrox14]

 

I don't know where the scythe is, but I would hope Sam and Dean have it somewhere.

 

I recently rewatched Brother's Keeper and it disintegrated along with Death when Dean killed him. 

Edited February 29, 2016 by catrox14

[NoWillToResist]

Put me in the Lucifer did some soul-sucking from Sam camp. I remember Lucifer saying something like he didn't really need the power from Sam's soul, but since Sam offered so nicely, he would take that offer. I don't think Lucifer would turn down more power, especially since he was going to be using it up soon to make the second time travel trip. And his actions were pretty specific - it looked like when Castiel borrowed soul energy from Bobby or when he did the soul check up on Sam in season 6.

 

And no one else was there, so there was no need to make a flashy show of killing Sam if killing Sam was his intention.

 

But IMO, Lucifer did need to make a flashy show if he killed Sam because how else could "Cas" explain Sam's death to Dean? A tragic accident during the soul charge up was going to be the cover story to explain the big Sam splatter for when Dean got back. How would Casifer have explained Sam with a broken neck? He fell down the stairs?

 

Also, I suspect Lucifer would enjoy the mess/carnage. The potential power up would have just been a bonus for him. :)

[SueB]

I don't know if he actually 'took' anything from Sam. I just think it hurt a helluva a lot and that's Luci's style. Just turning him into chunky soup wouldn't be fun (or believable). But an exploded chest would match. And rip Dean up emotionally. So, why not? (You know, if your SATAN*).

*say it with Dana Carvey church lady voice.

[DittyDotDot]

That's what I meant, SueB. I didn't think he drained Sam's soul, but was just torturing him. Sure, if he had the chance, I think he would've drained Sam's soul--more for the fun of it than the power he gained, if you ask me--but Cass stopped him before that happened.

 

Bottom line, I didn't get the impression Sam was recovering from anything more than staying up drinking coffee and doing homework for days on end. Dean seemed to be in the same condition only that he'd gotten to the aspirin first.

[dragonsbite]

I recently rewatched Brother's Keeper and it disintegrated along with Death when Dean killed him. 

 

Good catch, catrox14. And in classic sci-fantasy/comic lore, since we no longer have a body or the weapon, it still exists and probably isn't dead.

[AwesomO4000]

But IMO, Lucifer did need to make a flashy show if he killed Sam because how else could "Cas" explain Sam's death to Dean? A tragic accident during the soul charge up was going to be the cover story to explain the big Sam splatter for when Dean got back. How would Casifer have explained Sam with a broken neck? He fell down the stairs?

 

Also, I suspect Lucifer would enjoy the mess/carnage. The potential power up would have just been a bonus for him. :)

 

Oh, that's right. You're right. I forgot that at that time Lucifer was still trying to keep up appearances, and he did also mention a "tragic accident." I probably forgot that, because when given the least provocation, Lucifer dropped all pretenses like a hot potato. That's what i get for not doing a rewatch yet.

 

It sort of reminds me of when Soulless Sam was relieved to drop all the pretenses of pretending to be real Sam. He described the pretending to give a shit as being exhausting. And I'm sure Lucifer felt the same way. He probably wanted to be torturing Sam, but instead had to be nice to him - torturing himself instead.

 

But as I wondered above, I agree that any headache was likely not related to Lucifer sticking his hand inside Sam's chest, and that there are no lasting soul consequences going on, even if Lucifer did take a little power hit while he was in there.

 

And if the guys are having caffeine withdrawal, I guess that means they restocked the coffee. I can see Dean getting a whole bunch - and hiding some on the side - to avoid Sam using up the last bit on him again.

[SueB]

I need to see Dean in a Costco. Buying coffee and beer by the gross.

Edited February 29, 2016 by SueB

[Omegamom]

Lebanon's a small town. They'd need to drive nearly to KC to get big box stores...

[SueB]

Lebanon's a small town. They'd need to drive nearly to KC to get big box stores...

 

So, like a half-hour for the Impala's warp drive?

[catrox14]

Good catch, catrox14. And in classic sci-fantasy/comic lore, since we no longer have a body or the weapon, it still exists and probably isn't dead.

 

Of course, I don't believe that was Death's actual scythe because it looked like this

In Two Minutes to Midnight..and Death burned it out of Dean's hand

 

 

and grew into this....

[Starla]

Finally watched this episode. I totally loved the shout out to this scene from the movie Brazil in the beginning of the episode, when Lucifer was standing there watching all his minions working around him. They even used the music from the film. So great.