S02.E07: Into The Woods And Out Of The Woods

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Liza accompanies Josh to a musical festival and helps Charles with a work assignment.

[Primetimer]

The leads of both Younger and Crazy Ex-Girlfriend have recently sent text messages to the wrong person, leading to embarrassment, disaster, and musical numbers. Which show did it best?

Read the story

[HunterHunted]

The leads of both Younger and Crazy Ex-Girlfriend have recently sent text messages to the wrong person, leading to embarrassment, disaster, and musical numbers. Which show did it best?

Younger because everything on Crazy Ex-Girlfriend is an outgrowth of Rebecca's mental illness. I appreciated seeing Liza's adult reaction to her texting mistake after watching Rebecca spin out of control.

I hate camping music festivals!!!!!! I had an ex try to get me to go to Bonnaroo with him. I told him that it combined things that I hated (camping and hipsters) with things that I liked (music and him) and the negatives outweighed the positives. Liza handled her mistake well though Charles figured it out on his own. This show. Liza and Josh seem to be mostly working and the ghost of Charles starts haunting her. Liza seems so at ease around Charles.

I'm not getting into the Diana and male feminist story because that's a story so hoary that later Sex in the City wouldn't have touched it.

Edited February 18, 2016 by HunterHunted

[Julia]

I'm not getting into the Diana and male feminist story because that's a story so hoary that later Sex in the City wouldn't have touched it.

 

What, that he loves her male energy and insisted on bottoming and she snapped his penis? Hey, that was subtle, subtle stuff. I was waiting for her to chew it off with her vaginal teeth.

 

I think the lie that's going to be a problem moving forward is the one where Liza let Josh believe that she actually sent that hydrant-seeking selfie of them to Charles.

[tennisgurl]

The male feminist guy seems like he would be exhausting to be around. I knew that wouldn't end well. Although I do have to giggle at the mental image of him taking his male feminism book to random strip clubs in the mid-west. 

 

I have never done the camping music festival thing, but I feel like you need to be pretty drunk and/or high to really appreciate it. I have actually always wanted to go to one, just for the experience, but this episode does NOT make them look very appealing. I do love a good coffee stout though. 

[ZuluQueenOfDwarves]

The lack of Kelsey and Lauren made this ep a serious bust for me.

[Hanahope]

This episode reminded me of when I went to the US Festival back in 1981, 82, something like that.  I hated it when I was 16, but then I've always hated camping.  I can handle a hike for a few hours, I am not interested in 'the woods' for much more than that.  I just have to laugh at the inconsistency of port-a-potties without toilet paper, and no hot coffee, but this huge charging station for phones.

 

And Liza starts to think that maybe its not so good to remind Charles she has a boyfriend.  If she's starting to realize this, maybe she'll also start to realize that Charles is actually interested in her.  He wouldn't be constantly calling her otherwise.

 

I'm guessing Diana must have been a bit desperate for sex, because that male feminist guy is exhausting.  Of course, it bugs me when my husband is constantly talking in bed.  Just shut up and do it. I'll let you know if there's a problem or if I need/want something else.  And now she may have literally screwed the pooch by screwing where she eats.

[Texasmom1970]

I dud not like this episode too much Josh. I would rather see much more Maggie!

[rallymantis]

I knew from the previews, they meant to foist this idiot on Diana.  She doesn't deserve that.  I'm not one to look for slights, but it seems to me, Diana's the one, gets continually shit on.  Why not give her someone attractive, even if it won't work out?  Why does it have to be some psycho-neurotic nebbish with a Mommy fixation?

 

Oh Charles!! I love you for your Percil ads.  And soon much more.* should read: "And so much more", but "soon" would be nice too.

Edited February 18, 2016 by gutette1

[HunterHunted]

I knew from the previews, they meant to foist this idiot on Diana.  She doesn't deserve that.  I'm not one to look for slights, but it seems to me, Diana's the one, gets continually shit on.  Why not give her someone attractive, even if it won't work out?  Why does it have to be some psycho-neurotic nebbish with a Mommy fixation?

I know that Diana wants Charles, but there is no universe where they are right for each other. I would love it if she some how found the male version of her. Someone who is smart, but kind of an asshole. One of Lauren's clients. Or a celebrity chef with a new cookbook at Empirical.

[Julia]

I know that Diana wants Charles, but there is no universe where they are right for each other. I would love it if she some how found the male version of her. Someone who is smart, but kind of an asshole. One of Lauren's clients. Or a celebrity chef with a new cookbook at Empirical.

 

This. Charles was already married to someone intense and cerebral, and it didn't end well. Not to mention that Diana may be interested in Charles - I mean, who wouldn't be? - but I very much doubt she'd be interested in his life. She doesn't strike me as someone who's itching to help raise adolescent girls.

[dubbel zout]

I think she's attracted to the idea of Charles—handsome, successful, cultured—more than his actual situation as a divorced father of two daughters.

[kminfinity]

I've come around to liking Josh a lot.  I don't know if Charles is the long-term plan, or end-game, but I hope if/when Josh goes they don't demonize him.  That one episode earlier this season worried me.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

You know, I was really hoping that Diana and the Male Feminist guy would hook up briefly just so she could get some sex and a nice ego boost (I loved how she decided to ditch the jacket and go full steam ahead with looking sexy for their meeting), but he is just so exhausting to listen to. I was glad when she told him to quit asking if it was okay and just put it in.

 

Festivals are not my thing. I like sleeping in a bed and peeing in a toilet that flushes. But more importantly, I can't be at close range with hipsters 24/7. I would do more than hip check someone

[txhorns79]

I've come around to liking Josh a lot.  I don't know if Charles is the long-term plan, or end-game, but I hope if/when Josh goes they don't demonize him.  That one episode earlier this season worried me.

 

This is something I've pondered.  I like Josh, but feel he is wrong for Liza in the long term.  I feel like Charles is a better pairing for Liza, but I have trouble seeing how he gets over Liza's age deception to the point where he'd be comfortable dating her and having her around his kids.  

[dubbel zout]

Liza successfully babysat for the kids last season, so she's proven herself there. I don't think lying about her age affects that. The lie really only affects how people see her. People will feel betrayed, and rightly so, but her talents are her talents. She won't suddenly be a bad assistant just because everyone knows she's 40.

 

I'll be curious to see what direction they go with this when the lie is out in her professional life. And I wonder how much longer they're going to try to keep it.

[kminfinity]

The show IS called Younger, so I guess they will try to keep the deception a while.  Maybe each season someone new finds out... Kelsey at the end of this season or early S3?  I'd guess Diana and Charles are later.

[Mabinogia]

I don't know why Liza has to be in a long term relationship. She just got out of a long term marriage that didn't quite go well. I like that she is dating Josh. No, they won't get married and have a family, but that is not what everybody wants, despite what the media tries to bash us over the head with. Some relationships are great, good and valuable without being "one true love".

 

And yeah, the more I see of Josh the more I like him. I think he is what Liza needs in her life right now. A friend, someone to make her laugh, someone to have fun with and push her boundaries and not someone like her. I love their relationship. It's one of the very few things I still like about the show even though I know it isn't going to last.

[txhorns79]

Liza successfully babysat for the kids last season, so she's proven herself there. I don't think lying about her age affects that. The lie really only affects how people see her. People will feel betrayed, and rightly so, but her talents are her talents. She won't suddenly be a bad assistant just because everyone knows she's 40.

 

I think you hit on the main issue, which would really be about trust.  It's not that Liza's talents would suddenly go away, so much as that people would simply not trust her.  

[Bort]

I think the deciding factor would be motive. It's not like Liza is pathological or anything, lying about her age just for shits and giggles. She couldn't get a job at 40 but could at 26. I can see Diana pitching a huge fit but Charles is pretty level-headed and once the initial shock and awe wore off, would probably understand.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I don't know why Liza has to be in a long term relationship. She just got out of a long term marriage that didn't quite go well. I like that she is dating Josh. No, they won't get married and have a family, but that is not what everybody wants, despite what the media tries to bash us over the head with. Some relationships are great, good and valuable without being "one true love".

 

And yeah, the more I see of Josh the more I like him. I think he is what Liza needs in her life right now. A friend, someone to make her laugh, someone to have fun with and push her boundaries and not someone like her. I love their relationship. It's one of the very few things I still like about the show even though I know it isn't going to last.

ITA - not every relationship needs to lead to marriage or a lifelong commitment. It's totally fine to date someone and just have fun. For now, Josh is a hot guy for Liza to have a good time with. There's nothing wrong with that. The fact that he's younger is kind of a plus right now. She is open to learning about new things and both he and people like Kelsey are talking about things that she might otherwise have ignored or not bothered to learn about on her own. As a newly divorced woman, she probably wouldn't have decided to go to that bluegrass festival if not for Josh. No, she didn't have a great time, but it was a new experience and at least now that she's gone to a music festival, she knows it's not really her thing (heh, and so does Gabe).

 

On a shallow note, Diana looks so much better this season now that they've done away with her matronly chignons. She looked ten years younger with that short bob.

[Mabinogia]

Totally agree about Diana's hair. LOVE it. Wish she'd get a better love interest than that feminist guy though. UGH what a weirdo.

[Bort]

I couldn't take the scenes with the feminist guy, he bugged me so much. Sorry Diana, you got fast-forwarded this week.

[holly4755]

Why do people assume that relationship with Josh won't last? I had a friend (boss)  who was 42 she was asked out by one of her staff who was 25, she was not hiding her age, but it was also something she did not parade and she looked great.  he was surprised when she told im when they were getting serious, and his parents were very upset, but they got married and are still together 40 years later. He was great when she went through menopause and later through cancer. I wish my ex was as understanding. She still looks great although pretty old and he got older as well and did not age as well, heh. I love them as a couple.  

and therefore I believe this relationship can last. I have seen something similar happen before. 

 

ETA

Diana can't be treated well, she is an old woman who is not pretending to be young and she is not a cool artist lesbian and she is not someone's mother, so she must be portrayed as foolish and desperate not nice - that is the TV sitcom way.

Edited February 22, 2016 by holly4755

[Julia]

In a character-driven story, no way a man raising two teenaged girls alone because their mother took off is going to risk bringing someone who forged their way into a job into their lives. Trust would have to be his number one issue, and whether or not he forgives her, he also knows she's not completely trustworthy.

I don't think it's disqualifying in a Darren Starr show, where the happy ending is quirky heroine hooks up with large-penis-enabled rich guy. And the fact that it probably will happen pisses me off. Because Liza was, according to this show, crippled intellectually and personally by being 'just' a wife and mother. Now she's going to triumph by being the wife of someone better with less obnoxious kids?

[txhorns79]

In a character-driven story, no way a man raising two teenaged girls alone because their mother took off is going to risk bringing someone who forged their way into a job into their lives. Trust would have to be his number one issue, and whether or not he forgives her, he also knows she's not completely trustworthy.

 

I agree with this.  While I might eventually forgive Liza, there's very little chance I would trust her again to the point where we would date or I would consider her to be a potential wife/step-mom.  She isn't just lying about her age, she's lying about her entire life to her co-workers/friends.  She's erased her ex-husband, daughter and about fifteen years of her life.  

 

Now that isn't to say I don't like the show, I do.  I'm just not sure how they plausibly get Liza out of her lie and into a more honest relationship with everyone that doesn't leave her fired and friendless.        

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Why do people assume that relationship with Josh won't last? I had a friend (boss) who was 42 she was asked out by one of her staff who was 25, she was not hiding her age, but it was also something she did not parade and she looked great. he was surprised when she told im when they were getting serious, and his parents were very upset, but they got married and are still together 40 years later. He was great when she went through menopause and later through cancer. I wish my ex was as understanding. She still looks great although pretty old and he got older as well and did not age as well, heh. I love them as a couple.

and therefore I believe this relationship can last. I have seen something similar happen before.

I'm not saying that Liza and Josh can't get married. My previous post was meant to convey that it's okay to date someone just for fun without marriage being the end goal. Lots of people do that (see most of the people I knew in high achool through their late 20s).

My friend's parents got married when they were 27 and 47 and they're still together almost forty years later, so age differences can work in real life. But realistically, Josh is the rebound guy after her divorce which is one of the many reasons why I think it's okay for Liza to enjoy being with a hot fun guy without any visions of wedded domestic bliss in their future. I mean, does anyone expect Lauren and Maggie to get married and live happily ever after? For now it looks like they are just enjoying each other's company and having a good time without a long term goal of growing old together, and there's nothing wrong with that.

[Snarklepuss]

The leads of both Younger and Crazy Ex-Girlfriend have recently sent text messages to the wrong person, leading to embarrassment, disaster, and musical numbers. Which show did it best?

 

I actually think "Crazy Ex-Girlfriend" did it best - Aww c'mon, that number with the 80s rocker look alikes "Text-mergency" was fantastic!

 

Another parallel between the two shows is this week when Rebecca's coworker Paula unzips her jacket so she looks a little sexier - Same exact thing happened with Diana in the ladies' room on Younger in this episode.

[Snarklepuss]

I thought Diana looked GREAT in that black dress, especially with her "new season" hair.  She looked far less caricature-like and more feminine, but oh boy is she still being treated badly by putting her with that neurotic, wimpy feminist writer.  I hate it that they make her that desperate - I felt sorry for her in this episode that she would humiliate herself to go to bed with him.  Ugh.  Why do they have to make her so pathetic?  I'm thinking it must be for comic relief....Diana suddenly going for this guy at least shows that she isn't saving herself for Charles and that Liza shouldn't worry in the least how Diana might feel about her liking him.  I never thought she should, but this just goes to support that, IMHO.

 

As soon as I saw the outdoor music festival I knew they were trying to show how Liza was too old for that kind of stuff - When she said it herself I was relieved that it wasn't just me thinking that!  But Josh said he felt like he was too old for it too.  I suppose they're really trying to make Josh look like her true love and Charles is not, or at least that's what they want us to think right now.

 

I agree and have said in previous weeks that Liza and Josh don't have to have a "forever" relationship and he could be her divorce rebound/midlife crisis guy.  I had one too and he was 10 years younger than me, LOL.  The complication with Charles keeping them apart is not the two girls, it's that he is her superior at work and until that resolves somehow both of them would always tend to put any thoughts of each other on a shelf somewhere.  It is very obvious that both of them are attracted to each other and I think Charles would forgive her for lying about her age - Or they would write it into the script for things to work out in such a way between them that he totally gets it or is just so taken with her that he can be especially forgiving.  I might like the idea of them finding a secret for Liza to find out about Charles so they both can keep each other's secret.

Edited February 23, 2016 by Snarklepuss

[lavenderpenguin]

Why do people assume that relationship with Josh won't last? I had a friend (boss)  who was 42 she was asked out by one of her staff who was 25, she was not hiding her age, but it was also something she did not parade and she looked great.  he was surprised when she told im when they were getting serious, and his parents were very upset, but they got married and are still together 40 years later. He was great when she went through menopause and later through cancer. I wish my ex was as understanding. She still looks great although pretty old and he got older as well and did not age as well, heh. I love them as a couple.  

and therefore I believe this relationship can last. I have seen something similar happen before. 

 

ETA

Diana can't be treated well, she is an old woman who is not pretending to be young and she is not a cool artist lesbian and she is not someone's mother, so she must be portrayed as foolish and desperate not nice - that is the TV sitcom way.

 

...perhaps because the scenario you describe is the exception, not the rule? Just because something is possible doesn't mean it's probable. And it's not all about how 'great' someone looks when they are middle-aged (or how badly the younger party might age) -- they are a lot of reasons that such couples might have difficulties: the issue of bio children (if you can have them, how quickly to try, the potential that you might not be able to have them), gaps in life experience/career advancement/power imbalances, etc. can also play a role.

 

In fact, I think we're seeing the latter play out with Josh and Liza, because outside of her physical attraction to him, and the "fun" that he brings to her life, I don't understand their compatibility -- in fact, it always feels like she's trying to get into his hobbies and lifestyle, but repeatedly fails to develop a genuine interest in them (dodgeball, bluegrass festival, etc). This could be the case with any couple, but I keep getting the feeling that part of her efforts are rooted in her desire to be someone she's not: a young, cool fun 20-something chick. But she's not and it's obvious when you see how comfortable and at ease she looks while discussing the things she likes, the pop culture references she understands, etc. 

Edited February 25, 2016 by lavenderpenguin

[Winston Wolfe]

 

I thought Diana looked GREAT in that black dress, especially with her "new season" hair.  She looked far less caricature-like and more feminine, but oh boy is she still being treated badly by putting her with that neurotic, wimpy feminist writer.

Oddly enough, the mature female characters that are mostly comfortable with their age - Diana and Maggie - are arguably the hottest women on the show (although Hillary Duff has some of the best showbiz legs since Tina Turner).  As others have said, it's Diana's air of desperation that make her unattractive.  Conversely, Maggie's confidence and self-assuredness make the actress/character's minor flaws (I never noticed Debi Mazur's overbite or lisp until now) irrelevant.

 

The big issue that I'd like to see Younger delve into is how apparently comfortable Liza is living a lie.  Yes, there are some signs of conflict, but as another poster said, if it came down to her boyfriend or new life that she loves so much - the boyfriend is obviously toast.  To me, that's someone who is mostly comfortable living a lie.

[Julia]

The big issue that I'd like to see Younger delve into is how apparently comfortable Liza is living a lie.  Yes, there are some signs of conflict, but as another poster said, if it came down to her boyfriend or new life that she loves so much - the boyfriend is obviously toast.  To me, that's someone who is mostly comfortable living a lie.

I think you're lowballing a bit with "some signs of conflict." She strikes me as extremely uncomfortable with the machinations the situation has forced on her. More importantly, though, you're leaving out the part where without this job, she has no visible means of support. There's a lot more keeping her where she is than how much she loves her job.

[girlplease]

Aw, I'm nearly 40 and I love festivals :) If you're not prepared, though, they can be a nightmare! Definitely looked like Liza and Josh made some rookie mistakes.

 

The casting on this show continues to surprise and impress. Such an odd role for David Wain, but I love seeing him on my TV!

[Gothish520]

On 2/18/2016 at 11:55 AM, Julia said:

What, that he loves her male energy and insisted on bottoming and she snapped his penis? Hey, that was subtle, subtle stuff. I was waiting for her to chew it off with her vaginal teeth.

Oh lordy that made me laugh out loud!