Sleepy Hollow in the Media

[Sparkling Beth]

I'm betting I'm not the only one who originally thought, "That sounds like a stupid idea" and is now thinking, "I can't wait!"

[MissAlmond]

 

I'm betting I'm not the only one who originally thought, "That sounds like a stupid idea" and is now thinking, "I can't wait!"

 

My first reaction was FOX will do what FOX wants to do and obviously what FOX wanted was a crossover.  But yes, now I'm excited for the crossover itself.  It sounds like both showrunners put thought into how to make it work.  Can't wait!

[Pyralis]

this crossover is going to make me do something I have never done - watch an episode of Bones.

[cynic]

Apparently there was a kerfuffle yesterday on Twitter over some remarks by Phillip Iscove. It looks like he basically said that Abbie is a career-focused woman who doesn't lean towards romance as an explanation of the difference in the love lives between Crane and Abbie.

https://mobile.twitter.com/pmiscove/status/658076459110567936?p=v

[Indi]

Yeah, they've been saying that from the beginning of the series, though. It's not like this is something new or that Campbell fixed anything. FOX did by firing Goffman and demanding Katrina to be killed off. Everything else has stayed the same.

[Julia]

Are there any women writing this show? Because yeah, it's not unusual for young women - for young anybody, these days - to prioritize their careers over making long-term romantic commitments in their twenties, and Abbie has bonus trust issues from having everyone she loved ripped away from her when she was thrust into the system, and probably some questions about what she can give to a relationship after being too afraid to back her sister. 

 

Only that doesn't mean that the side of her who's a young woman in her twenties and reacts to people she finds attractive doesn't exist, or that she's not sacrificing anything to prioritize the professional aspect of her life. And since the one brief mention of her dumping her SO to go to FBI school, they're not acknowledging that. 

 

I'm not pushing Abbie/Anyone in particular here, or saying that a female character has to have a man to be valid. But it's a little uncomfortable when they're promoting a new character who's a totally badass agent because she's a caricature of female sexuality / a Complete Woman, and in order for Abbie to be one she has to be completely focused on her career.

 

If I had to choose one of them for my daughter to admire, I'd absolutely choose Abbie. But that still doesn't mean that I want my daughter to get the message that in order to be treated with respect she has to be sexless. I still remember man-tailored suits and floppy bows back when professional women were supposed to be fake men and live like nuns. We've had two Secretaries of State and a Speaker of the House and a barrel full of Senators, Governors, Congresspersons and Mayors since then who wore dresses and had sex. Many of them even made babies with their lady parts. Seriously, guys, join the current millennium, already in progress.

[MissAlmond]

I think Twitter was invented by Pandora and therefore try to avoid it, especially after S2. 

Edited October 25, 2015 by MissAlmond

[WearyTraveler]

I don't have a problem with how Abbie's love life is represented on the show, and I wouldn't say it's sexless.  She had a boyfriend that she dumped in season 1, Andy fell in love with her, and Hawley had the hots for her at some point (which ewww!, but that's for another thread). She also had a long relationship with a fellow recruit at the FBI academy, but he's now her boss, and it seems there's still some attraction there, which makes their interactions a little uncomfortable for the characters, but I think that is realistic..

 

She's not actively looking for anyone right now, that we know off, but neither is Ichabod or Jenny, for that matter.  This season we haven't seen any of our core protagonists purposely go out and look for love in the present time (yeah, I know Ichabod kind of has a stalker, but that's on her, he's certainly not looking for romance), and I think that's fine, given that they are a bit preoccupied with saving the world.

 

I don't need to see any of these characters, including Abbie, trying to find a date or pick someone up at a bar.  That would be a distraction to the main story.  Now if something blossomed between Ichabod and Abbie because of their partnership and because they spend so much time together, that would feel organic to me, but any of them searching for someone.... no, that wouldn't feel right.  And it's not because they have a job, it's because they have a very particular job.

 

I also don't think that TV shows have any duty to present role models to the masses.  That job belongs elsewhere.

[phoenics]

TV shows do have a duty to do better. And black women being represented as "SBW" who "don't need romance" and aren't seen as sexy are tired, racist tropes that need to be killed with fire.

And let's not use Olivia or Annalise as counter examples. Shonda Rhymes is involved so we know why she gets the nuances.

We don't necessarily need more women writers on SH. We need a black woman writer who can explain to Iscove why his comments were so bad.

They haven't grown since last year.

Edited October 25, 2015 by phoenics

[WearyTraveler]

I'll agree to disagree on the role of TV as our moral beacon.  You won't change my mind, and I suspect I won't change yours.  I'll just say this: TV shows are a product, if the product is bad, but it sells, the problem is the morals of the buyer, and unless that changes first, the product won't change.  Why do we get so many "sexy" women on TV with revealing wardrobe? Because it sells.  If TV stopped doing that, it wouldn't change anything, as the people who want to see scantily clad women would get their fix somewhere else.

 

As to Abbie, I don't think the show (not Twitter, but the show, the episodes, the actual canon) is saying Abbie doesn't need romance.  She clearly does from time to time, as she has had boyfriends and relationships that we know about. The show has also had characters interested in her romantically, so, it's also not saying that she's unattractive.  I again don't see the problem.

 

I don't care if she's black, blue, orange or white, the character of Abbie Mills not actively looking for romance, given everything else she has to do, and the incredibly important job she has of saving the whole wide world, makes sense to me.  I can see a person (any person) under those circumstances making exactly those choices.  The same goes for Ichabod, Jenny and baby Corbin.  The job they have should be the most important thing in their lives right now, particularly with Pandora loose in Sleepy Hollow.  If they had any other job, then I'd say go for it, have lives, my children, look for a partner and be happy! But they don't have any ordinary job, so, no, it wouldn't feel right to me.

 

As a Latina who has lived in the US and whose race is also the target of many a stereotype and trope, I can sympathize with the need to have better representation on TV, but I think only if the role warrants it.  If it doesn't then it feels like lip service and fake, done only to appease people and not because the role was well-written. 

[Julia]

I don't need to see any of these characters, including Abbie, trying to find a date or pick someone up at a bar.

 

If someone's been suggesting that, I think they must be on a board I'm not reading :)

 

What I've noticed is that what this show wants to show, it is not at all shy about showing. So we get weekly reminders about how destined Ichabod and Katrina were, and now we get weekly reminders about how hot Betsy is. But with the exception of a brief mention in season 1, the idea that Abbie is a healthy young woman with the usual set of urges who has chosen to prioritize her job over her romantic life (for security? Advancement? They didn't go that far into it) is mentioned pretty much in twitter, where they put things they didn't put on screen. I think it would be more well-rounded to show that.

 

I'm also not sure that I interpret having an ex, an undead stalker and a skeezeball who also hits on her sister sniffing around her as proof that she's attractive, but JMO it's not about her being attractive. It's about her finding other people attractive. Anyone with eyes can tell that Abbie could have a busy social life if she wanted one. What I'd like to have some attention paid to is why she doesn't want one, or has at least chosen not to have one.

Edited October 25, 2015 by Julia

[WearyTraveler]

I do agree that minorities in general are not adequately represented on TV and movies.  And I understand that for a long time black women have been tropes.  That said, I don't think the solution is to push for Abbie to be a certain way for the sole purpose of a trope being subverted.  I think that the solution is first to change our society, second to cast black women in all kinds of roles and third to not expect television to be our moral beacon or lead the charge in social change.
 
As for all the black women before Olivia Pope, I disagree that all of them were stereotypes.  Off the top of my head I recall very well drawn black females in The L Word, there was The Cosby Show, The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air, A Different World, Living Single... They had all kinds of black women. And I understand that most of these shows were made "for black people", but I watched them and enjoyed them all.  And just like every other TV show out there, they had their ups and downs.
 
Also, before Olivia Pope, there was Vanessa Williams in Ugly Betty and Desperate Housewives, Angela Bassett in ER, Cicely Tyson in Roots... I agree there were very few worthy roles for black women on TV, but to say that none before Olivia Pope were so is an exaggeration IMO.
 
Julia, on 26 Oct 2015 - 12:16 AM, said:
 

If someone's been suggesting that, I think they must be on a board I'm not reading :)

 
LOL! Touché! Point taken.
 

What I've noticed is that what this show wants to show, it is not at all shy about showing. So we get weekly reminders about how destined Ichabod and Katrina were, and now we get weekly reminders about how hot Betsy is. But with the exception of a brief mention in season 1, the idea that Abbie is a healthy young woman with the usual set of urges who has chosen to prioritize her job over her romantic life (for security? Advancement? They didn't go that far into it) is mentioned pretty much in twitter, where they put things they didn't put on screen. I think it would be more well-rounded to show that.
 
I'm also not sure that I interpret having an ex, an undead stalker and a skeezeball who also hits on her sister sniffing around her as proof that she's attractive, but JMO it's not about her being attractive. It's about her finding other people attractive. Anyone with eyes can tell that Abbie could have a busy social life if she wanted one. What I'd like to have some attention paid to is why she doesn't want one, or has at least chosen not to have one.

I think that's a very valid point.  They should have Abbie address her choices on screen.

Edited October 26, 2015 by frenchtoast

[Indi]

Furthermore, Ichabod is not getting a romance in the present.

 

The point is that Ichy gets romances on screen, while Abbie had that luxury. So people can make a list of Abbie's love interests, to prove that, when it comes to numbers, they are about equal, but the truth is that the show has explored and is exploring every single romance, when it comes to Ichy, but Abbie gets nothing but vague mentions.

 

He's getting a stalker in  the present, or if you wish, he's getting unrequited love in the present, pretty much the same as Abbie did with Andy.

 

Not true, at least not yet. Ichy is flirting and developing a relationship with Zoe. She might be slightly stalkerish, but he is flattered by it and he is encouraging her. He clearly wants a relationship with her. I don't see anything that points to "unrequited".

 

Andy was a dangerous stalker, who knocked Abbie down on the pilot and threatened Luke, to keep him away from Abbie. Abbie was never interested in him, at no point did the show imply she had encouraged him or that there was a potential romantic angle between those two.

[WearyTraveler]

I don't think Ichabod is flirting.  What does that even look like for a person like him? I'd agree he's flattered and that Zoe hasn't demonstrated her obsession in a physical way yet (like Andy did), but there's a reason Abbie pointed out the huge number of text messages twice in the episode.  And that most of them had nothing to do with the citizenship issue.

 

I think Ichabod doesn't really see how wrong all those messages are because they are lighthearted so far.  I don't think he quite understands our modern stalkers yet.  Specially because the messages are not romantic in nature (as in she's not professing her undying love for him in any of them). He's responding to some of them, not all, and I think he's doing it believing it's a sort of friendship and nothing more.  He's not asking her out for coffee or a movie, and if he's gallant to her, it's because he's from colonial times and thinks that's the way he should act. I think he believes she only wanted to help him with his legal issue and that they are becoming friends.

 

When Joe told him that it was good that he was "moving on" (from Katrina), Ichabod didn't quite understand what he meant at first, and then denied it.  He has no reason to lie to Joe, as he's not, that we know off, some philandering type trying to collect women.  And so, he wouldn't be afraid of admitting he was pursuing a relationship with one because another one could find out.  He also keeps telling Abbie that the whole thing is just about citizenship and I think that's because it's what he believes.  I have a feeling we're headed toward boiling rabbit territory with this one, and Ichabod will be more surprised than everyone else.

 

Also (although that may be a question for the episode thread), why is it ok for Abbie to claim "boundaries" when Ichabod asks about her boss but not for Ichabod to claim "boundaries" when Abbie goes through his phone?  I mean, I didn't mind it that much, but that seemed strange to me.

Edited October 26, 2015 by WearyTraveler

[Indi]

I think Ichabod doesn't really see how wrong all those messages are because they are lighthearted so far.

He doesn't see them as wrong, because they are not. Zoe comes off as a little too enthusiastic, but here's a man, who bowed to her and who is taking a keen interest in her. Mison himself said they are kindred spirits, so I wouldn't be surprised if it Ichy had a crush on her as well. Seeing what Mison had to say about his new love interest, I wouldn't be surprised if they started dating soon. I can't complain about that, they are indeed kindred spirits with similar interests and even looks. She is the best fit for him. Having said that, the fact that Abbie is still getting treated like a black woman who needs no man is beyond messed up. They're still suffering of Ichytitis. They have Crane on the brain and they can't see beyond his character.

 

Also (although that may be a question for the episode thread), why is it ok for Abbie to claim "boundaries" when Ichabod asks about her boss but not for Ichabod to claim "boundaries" when Abbie goes through his phone?  I mean, I didn't mind it that much, but that seemed strange to me.

 

Not so strange for me. They are different people with different boundary settings. They keep grabbing each other's phones, so it's not something she does to him, but not the other way around.

[HalcyonDays]

I don't think Ichabod is flirting.  What does that even look like for a person like him? I'd agree he's flattered and that Zoe hasn't demonstrated her obsession in a physical way yet (like Andy did), but there's a reason Abbie pointed out the huge number of text messages twice in the episode.  And that most of them had nothing to do with the citizenship issue.

 

Here is a screen shot of the texts. Crane is the one in blue. If I didn't know the background or who was texting, I would think these were just two friends chatting. There's nothing here that indicates romantic at all. The only thing that does is the volume of text messages, which can indicate romantic or friendly interest.

 

Personally, the character of Zoe looks/act so young that it seems like a teacher-student relationships, not a romantic one, though Mison is 33 and Maya Kazan is 28. It just looks off for some reason.

 

Pandora: You're not like the others, are you? And you don't crave mortality. Not your own or your sister's or even your fellow Napalutu. (echoing): Napalutu... And yet you fight. You fight like you have something to lose. So what is it, my brave one? What is the one pesky thing that you cannot accept to lose?

 

Thank you for the transcript, fantique! When I first heard her speech, I thought Pandora was saying that Abbie isn't afraid to die. Reading and analyzing it, it could be intrepreted as Abbie doesn't want to die, doesn't want her sister or Crane to die fighting in the Apocalypse, but she fights against it anyway (therefore risking death), because she's afraid she will lost something very important to her.

 

I think the "pesky thing" that Abbie's afraid to lose is hope. That's why the father mention. Abbie's father being alive still gives her hope for a reunion, for a family, a parent in her life. Abbie fights because she is afraid if she doesn't, she loses hope (for herself, her family, for humanity, for the world.) That's my interpretation.

 

I would love to know what a napalutu is.

 

I found a reference a few days ago, but now I can't find it, but it's apparently supposed to mean "Destroyer.

 

ETA: SpoilerTV Advance Review - Dead Men Tell No Tales.

[vanarnd1]

I have not followed social media for too many of the tv shows I have watched, but is it normal for writers of the show to get into debates with fans on twitter? It just seems like a really bad idea especially in this context. I mean when you constantly have to deny that racist tropes exist in your show that should tell you something is wrong, and you should listen to black women who point these things (and who are an important part of your fanbase).

 

As Phoenics said this show would really benefit from having black women in leadership positions behind the scenes to address these issues. As a white man, I wasn't aware of these stereotypes and how harmful they were until I saw the explanations from different people on this forum and online last season, and I don't know why TPTB have not learned from last year's experience. I think it is just natural for them to graviate torward giving Ichabod a romance and showing women as interested in him, but don't see it as being important for Abbie. Since it seems like they have trouble changing that mindset, they should at least lay low on social media and not try to justify it, because that is rightfully so a losing battle.

[Free]

I have not followed social media for too many of the tv shows I have watched, but is it normal for writers of the show to get into debates with fans on twitter? It just seems like a really bad idea especially in this context. I mean when you constantly have to deny that racist tropes exist in your show that should tell you something is wrong, and you should listen to black women who point these things (and who are an important part of your fanbase).

 

Yes, but it usually doesn't end up well.

[jhlipton]

I do agree that minorities in general are not adequately represented on TV and movies.  And I understand that for a long time black women have been tropes.  That said, I don't think the solution is to push for Abbie to be a certain way for the sole purpose of a trope being subverted.  I think that the solution is first to change our society, second to cast black women in all kinds of roles and third to not expect television to be our moral beacon or lead the charge in social change.

 

It's a question as to which is the cart and which is the horse.  Generally and overall, TV follows society.  But TV has led society on more than one occasion.  It's been suggested that Dennis Haysbert's role as President on 24 made it easier to accept a black President.  A good TV should strive to lead, not to sit back on tired tropes and stereotypes.

[Julia]

I think a lot of unexamined biasses factor in, but I also suspect that the main engine driving this trend on genre television* is that they're chasing internet buzz, and through that the elusive 18-49 YO boys, and the buzziest segment of the elusive online 18-49 YO boys think girls have cooties. So, women are either flirtatious and don't put out, or they're humorless and they don't put out, or they do put out and either they become attractively stupid / damaged just enough to be clearly the subordinate person in the relationship or they turn into a sixpack and a pizza at midnight die. By that reckoning, they're showing respect to Abbie if they don't write her as a love interest, which is probably what they think they're doing. There are people out there who think treating a woman 'just like a guy' is a compliment.
 
Then too, I was a bit startled when this started coming up, because while it makes all the sense in the world, when I was coming up WOC were fighting the stereotype that they were prostitutes and welfare mothers and exotic disposable sex partners, and there was a lot of push to stop portraying them in terms of sexuality. It's nice that the world has changed at least enough that we're looking for depictions of whole people. 
 
*In the comedy version, she's much-more-atttractive but bitchy, and she puts out but otherwise treats him like she's his mom.

Edited October 27, 2015 by Julia

[Artsda]

'Sleepy Hollow' Promotes Jessica Camacho to Series Regular (Exclusive)

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/sleepy-hollow-promotes-jessica-camacho-834757

[DearEvette]

Wow.  So another regular.  That makes six regulars.  I dunno, Seems a bit big for Sleepy Hollow.

 

On the one hand that could mean very little because being a regular simply means contractually they can call on you when they need you, but they don't actually have to give you any real screen time (*Cough*Season 2 Frank & Jenny *cough*). 

 

On the other hand, it could mean they might trim elsewhere (*cough*Betsy Ross *cough*).  Unlike S2 they aren't so far ahead with filming that they can't easily drop dead weight if things are looking sketchy.  And Betsy is as sketchy as they come.

 

But on the other, other hand it might signal that Fox isn't too unhappy with the ratings.  I mean other shows are getting episode orders trimmed -- so they are dead shows walking (*cough* Minority Report, Blood & Oil *cough*) while Sleepy is adding a regular.

 

But on the other, other, other hand... well I'm running out of hands.  I toyed with the idea that she was another Mills sister too.  It seems to blatant with all the talk of Daddy Mills and another family.  And although Jenny & Abbie's role in the Apocalypse seems to come down through their maternal line, there is no reason to assume that something hinky wasn't going on in their paternal line either.

[bethy]

If she is a sister, then it seems like Daddy Mills might have started his new family alongside the old. She seem to be of an age of Abbie and Jenny to me. 

[Commando Cody]

I think that bringing in another sister would break up the good dynamic they have with the two Mills Sisters. I think it would be a mistake. This isn't Charmed.

[jhlipton]

'Sleepy Hollow' Promotes Jessica Camacho to Series Regular (Exclusive)

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/sleepy-hollow-promotes-jessica-camacho-834757

 

I just hope she doesn't replace Jenny.

 

 

I think that bringing in another sister would break up the good dynamic they have with the two Mills Sisters. I think it would be a mistake. This isn't Charmed.

 

So true.

 

=====================================================

 

I saw The Last Fall on NetFlix last night.  Gross and Beharie have an easy chemistry that was so much fun to watch.  Really great film about a largely unexplored topic -- men who make it to the NFL but not to the starting line-up and are out after 3 years.  Everyone acts like their millionaires (including the players) and when they're cut, it's tough.

Edited October 27, 2015 by jhlipton

[Yolapukka]

I don't want a third sister in the dynamic. That's soapy-in-a-bad-way. One of my biggest problems with Katrina and especially Henry was their presumptive relationships with Ichabod.  I tend to think the new character is more interesting if we get to know her on her own merits rather than giving her a back-story with instant connections. Plus, I'm not sure of the actresses' exact age, but she not only looks to be a contemporary of Abbie and Jenny, she could also pass for someone a few years older. Not only do I not want to see her as a younger Mills sibling, I would not buy her as a younger half sibling from dad's second family. If his second family isn't younger by at least 5 years, he's just disgusting.  Not that abandoning one family, then immediately starting another is much better.  I'm already cringing at the probable  "I always loved you" reveal. Children need to feel love in the here and now, it's useless as an abstract notion felt by someone who is a complete void in their lives.

Edited October 28, 2015 by yuggapukka

[MissAlmond]

 

But on the other, other, other hand... well I'm running out of hands.

 

OK, Tevye LOL.

 

My guess it's Corbin's kid. 

 

MissAlmond

Edited October 27, 2015 by MissAlmond

[Sparkling Beth]

OK, Tevye LOL.

 

My guess it's Corbin's kid. 

 

MissAlmond

That seems like a good possibility given that she seemed to have been trained by Corbin.  I'd like that better than having her be related to Abbie and Jenny.

[MissAlmond]

 

That seems like a good possibility given that she seemed to have been trained by Corbin.

 

I actually hope we find out Corbin trained armies of supernatural fighters everywhere he went.  But, yeah,  I much prefer "Corbin, you ARE the father" to discovering another Mills sister.

[DearEvette]

Yeah. I would 1000x prefer she was Corbin's kid or just not another Mills. Realistically we know they do have other siblings because Papa Mills has another family. But hopefully they won't be incorporated because Millsx2 is everything!

[orza]

She doesn't need to be related to anyone. They probably promoted her to regular cast member to guarantee her availability for the entire season to complete the story arc with Jenny and Joe.

[Enero]

That seems like a good possibility given that she seemed to have been trained by Corbin.  I'd like that better than having her be related to Abbie and Jenny.

I thought this at first but now I'm not so sure. Jenny assumed Sophie was trained by Corbin because of the tricks Sophie used to get over on her and Joe. But what if that was the wrong assumption? Could it be possible that just like there was Corbin who worked with the Mills sisters there were other mentors who trained other fighters? And as a result, those other fighters might have their own agendas? Sophie did imply that who ever she was stealing the Shard for was not someone to be toyed with. So I wonder if her employer is a counterpart to Corbin? After all where did Corbin get his training from? And how did he learn so much about these supernatural artifacts that wouldn't be known by doing your simple historical research. Could this employer to Sophie have at one time worked with or mentored Corbin?

I also wonder if Corbin did train her why would she come after the Shard now? Why would he even tell her about the Shard if he'd entrusted it to Jenny? Unless she truly is just a professional thief that deals in rare supernatural antiquities.

[HalcyonDays]

Short clips - promos and BTS's with Beharie, Mison and Cliffy(!) about the Bones/SH X-over.

 

Bones/SH Crossover Halloween Event - Bones Centric

ETA: For some reason, this link doesn't want to attach itself over the text. Here is the YouTube link---> 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idK9JBk-Kss

 

Bones/SH Crossover Halloween Event - SH Centric.

 

The more I see these little promos, the more interested I am in this and really looking forward to it.

[WearyTraveler]

Me too!!!

Edited October 28, 2015 by WearyTraveler

[Julia]

That clip didn't really sell it to me, but the idea of conspiracy!Hodgins unknowingly working with the 250-year-old lynchpin of George Washington's revolutionary war supernatural freemason plan to fend off the apocalypse kind of fills me with joy.

I'm also kind of excited about the pedant-off between Brennan and Crane.

Edited October 28, 2015 by Julia

[HalcyonDays]

More Bones/SH Clips.

 

Expensive Champagne

 

Bones/Sh Crossover Sneak Peek

[vanarnd1]

I am looking forward to the crossover as well. For a one of special type of episode I think it can work well. Also I feel like I have seen more commercials for the crossover than I have for any normal episode so far, so the extra promotion plus being incorporated with a higher rated show could give the show a little boost ratings wise.

[HalcyonDays]

Another one.

 

Bones/SH Crossover - Uncomfortable.

 

ETA: Here's the link to all of the promos in one spot, for The Resurrection in the Remains.

[WearyTraveler]

Another one.

 

Bones/SH Crossover - Uncomfortable.

 

That made me laugh! :D

[DearEvette]

Even the Bones writers are Ichabbie shippers!

[Yolapukka]

It's been a while since I watched Bones regularly, I can't say I remember Bones being quite so inappropriate, though I do recall her wrapping blunt remarks in verbose packages. It was funny, but kind of cringe-inducing too.

[HalcyonDays]

Funny USATODAY interview with David Boreanaz and Tom Mison about the Crossover episodes. Both are funny guys and have great rapport! And apparently Mison's a dad now, dammit!....(congrats dude!)

 

ETA: now you know why he didn't go to some of the comic cons and there was some filming shuffling...for family reasons (which I suspected, actually)

[phoenics]

A www congrats Tom!

I'm excited for the crossover and the clips were great. The brain one with Booth made me laugh outloud.

[Julia]

It's been a while since I watched Bones regularly, I can't say I remember Bones being quite so inappropriate, though I do recall her wrapping blunt remarks in verbose packages. It was funny, but kind of cringe-inducing too.

As they started to move Booth and Brennan towards each other she went from the incisive, socially awkward character she was at the beginning (both Booth and Angela actually discussed that with her in season 1) to being abrasive and on the autism scale (they discussed it in interviews). The showrunners seemed to feel very strongly that she was much more likable if she was essentially crippled without Booth.

Edited October 29, 2015 by Julia

[HalcyonDays]

S03:E05: Dead Men Tell No Tales - Four Sneak Peeks.

[fantique]

If I had to choose one of them for my daughter to admire, I'd absolutely choose Abbie. But that still doesn't mean that I want my daughter to get the message that in order to be treated with respect she has to be sexless. I still remember man-tailored suits and floppy bows back when professional women were supposed to be fake men and live like nuns. We've had two Secretaries of State and a Speaker of the House and a barrel full of Senators, Governors, Congresspersons and Mayors since then who wore dresses and had sex. Many of them even made babies with their lady parts. Seriously, guys, join the current millennium, already in progress.

Don't actually know you but, being a shitty daughter as of late, I can recognise a good mum and I hope your daughter knows and tells you so. If not, don't worry she will.

 

I don't care if she's black, blue, orange or white, the character of Abbie Mills not actively looking for romance, given everything else she has to do, and the incredibly important job she has of saving the whole wide world, makes sense to me.  I can see a person (any person) under those circumstances making exactly those choices.  The same goes for Ichabod, Jenny and baby Corbin.  The job they have should be the most important thing in their lives right now, particularly with Pandora loose in Sleepy Hollow.  If they had any other job, then I'd say go for it, have lives, my children, look for a partner and be happy! But they don't have any ordinary job, so, no, it wouldn't feel right to me.

 

As a Latina who has lived in the US and whose race is also the target of many a stereotype and trope, I can sympathize with the need to have better representation on TV, but I think only if the role warrants it.  If it doesn't then it feels like lip service and fake, done only to appease people and not because the role was well-written.

 In general my sentiments reflect yours. Except the show is trying really hard to sell how attractive Ichabod is, how perfect of a woman Sexy Betsy and how cute him and Zoe are. I would rather neither had a romantic storyline after a season of terrible mythology and world building that is in need of re-establishing but if we' re here, then it should be equal. Especially when you think about the character development attached to Abbie in a relationship. I totally agree that having he go on dates or whatever would be silly, and I really hope they don't go there with Ichabod onscreen. He already has track record of putting witness duty second, if he is shown to be dating or whatever, it's only fair that we get treated to her doing something fun as well. Otherwise the show is clearly displaying its lack of care in Abbie's development while shoving the adventures in the love game of Ichabod Crane down my throat. In both timelines.

 

If someone's been suggesting that, I think they must be on a board I'm not reading :)

 

What I've noticed is that what this show wants to show, it is not at all shy about showing. So we get weekly reminders about how destined Ichabod and Katrina were, and now we get weekly reminders about how hot Betsy is. But with the exception of a brief mention in season 1, the idea that Abbie is a healthy young woman with the usual set of urges who has chosen to prioritize her job over her romantic life (for security? Advancement? They didn't go that far into it) is mentioned pretty much in twitter, where they put things they didn't put on screen. I think it would be more well-rounded to show that.

 

I'm also not sure that I interpret having an ex, an undead stalker and a skeezeball who also hits on her sister sniffing around her as proof that she's attractive, but JMO it's not about her being attractive. It's about her finding other people attractive. Anyone with eyes can tell that Abbie could have a busy social life if she wanted one. What I'd like to have some attention paid to is why she doesn't want one, or has at least chosen not to have one.

From your fingertips to their scripts.

 

Here is a screen shot of the texts. Crane is the one in blue. If I didn't know the background or who was texting, I would think these were just two friends chatting. There's nothing here that indicates romantic at all. The only thing that does is the volume of text messages, which can indicate romantic or friendly interest.

 

Personally, the character of Zoe looks/act so young that it seems like a teacher-student relationships, not a romantic one, though Mison is 33 and Maya Kazan is 28. It just looks off for some reason.

 Because infantilised and hero-worshipping female love interests is Hollywood shorthand speak for cute girl who admires the hero.

 

I saw The Last Fall on NetFlix last night.  Gross and Beharie have an easy chemistry that was so much fun to watch.  Really great film about a largely unexplored topic -- men who make it to the NFL but not to the starting line-up and are out after 3 years.  Everyone acts like their millionaires (including the players) and when they're cut, it's tough.

Oh yeah. They were good in it. Although the script was terrible (gosh, some of the dialogue...I command them for staying so earnest in their scenes), the cast was great.

 

PS: re: Tom kissing scenes, I saw his part with Billie Piper and there didn't seem to be a chemistry problem nor was the kissing awkward so I don't know what last week's kiss was about.

Two things from that video:

1) Is it me or has he lost weight since then (heck even since Salmon fishing- his face was fuller)?  

2)Nice bum.

[jhlipton]

After seeing Nicole portraying a woman in love in My Last Day Without You and The Last Fall, and a woman in lust in Shame, they are missing something very special by not having Abbie in a romantic and even sexual relationship with someone. Even if the stereotypes and tropes didn't exist, or if TV was supposed follow society instead of lead it, Beharie deserves to have her talents showcased as much, if not more than, Mison.
 
#10 on TV Guide's Hottest Women. I'd rank her higher myself...

Edited October 29, 2015 by jhlipton

[MissAlmond]

Bones/Sleepy Hollow crossover review from The New York Times

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/29/arts/television/critics-notebook-bones-and-sleepy-hollow-cross-pollinate.html

[HalcyonDays]

1) Is it me or has he lost weight since then (heck even since Salmon fishing- his face was fuller)? 

 

Yeah he did - a lot. And for someone already so tall and slender, it's quite noticable. Not sure if it's diet of otherwise, but it actually makes me worried about him, tbh.

 

Bones/Sleepy Hollow crossover review from The New York Times

 

Like that NYTs review.

 

 

How 'Bones' and 'Sleepy Hollow' came together for one of TV's most creative crossovers

 

Also at the bottom, scans of three individual script pages with notes. Red by EP Cliff Campbell, Blue by Bones EP John Collier. Ah, that's why he's wearing the ring again....

 

I love it when shows give extra information or provide behind the scenes stuff, or even seeing how the script was originally penned, allowing you to compare and contrast how final product appears on screen.

[Miss Dee]

I loved reading those script pages! If they cared that much throughout the entire episode, this crossover should be a hoot.