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Sleepy Hollow in the Media

maraleia

By maraleia
in Sleepy Hollow [V]

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Miss Dee

Miss Dee

Phoenics, do you watch Bones (or did you watch past seasons)? If so, you must have LOVED that comparison in the Variety article!!

Yeah, whatever they might say during fan events, the writers are definitely looking down the road. I suppose that makes sense. Fans have a tendency to take what's said and dial it up to 11. If they even hinted at a relationship in a first or second season fans would be expecting them to be in bed together in an handful of episodes. By saying "Not really planning on going there right now" they have a opportunity to start the slow burn. (I know, Phoenics! I KNOW!!)

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jenrising
jenrising
cynic
cynic

Oh, I have no doubt that Beharie wanted to leave. My issue is the laying of blame at Beharie for wanting to leave without considering why she wanted to leave. It was pretty clear two and a half years

Badsamaritan
Badsamaritan

I don't believe a word from FOX. Look how they treated Orlando Jones, by far their biggest cheerleader. And the fact that he has still been supporting Nicole tells me he knows what the fuck really hap

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phoenics

phoenics

Phoenics, do you watch Bones (or did you watch past seasons)? If so, you must have LOVED that comparison in the Variety article!!

I was totally into Bones in early seasons and then fell off due to life. I keep planning on catching back up and sometimes watch it in syndication, but I rally would like to catch up.

Yeah, whatever they might say during fan events, the writers are definitely looking down the road. I suppose that makes sense. Fans have a tendency to take what's said and dial it up to 11. If they even hinted at a relationship in a first or second season fans would be expecting them to be in bed together in an handful of episodes. By saying "Not really planning on going there right now" they have a opportunity to start the slow burn. (I know, Phoenics! I KNOW!!)

I'm just shocked that we're talking about a slow burn with this show... and that Clifton Campbell started that conversation!

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fantique

fantique

Clifton Campbell’s interview doesn’t fill me with relief at all. Mostly because of the part where he basically says in order to build up the Witnesses they must focus on building up outside characters?

LOL. Yeah, we’ve been there and done that.

 

Wrong Cliffy Cliff.

 

Why does Crane always need another person to work with outside of Abbie? This season he’s gonna have two partners according to everything I have read from showrunner Clifton Campbell and that just wreaks of what they tried to do last season. Betsy Ross is Hawley and Katrina rolled into one. There to once again make Ichabod and his connection to the apocalypse more important than Abbie’s.

I was going to say how I see it differently... but phoenics pretty much spoke my mind on this one. I know one of my biggest complaints about season was my difficulty in believing there are more than 10 people outside of TW in SH, so bring on the supporters. This world needs to feel full so I can care about them saving it.

 

Also, what I took his comments about bringing the other characters on to actually flesh out Abbie and Ichabod even more is that it's through interaction with others in the town that usually reveals more about Abbie and Ichabod anyway. Season 1 had that in spades and Season 2 lost that almost completely. I really thought Cliffy did right there... and hopefully that's what will play out onscreen

Clearly, Pandora being there is that she will release demons that target the witnesses personally. So you learn a LOT about them though what the demons reveal.

I would also argue that they both need an "outside person" so I don't feel like they stick around each other by default. Sure Crane has had more of an opportunity to be tempted away from the partnership so I see why it's not as interesting to see him venture out but I would argue that for Abbie it's really necessary for her to consider other ways/options to live her life before recommitting to the team with full consideration this time.

When it all started, she kind of had no choice, now I want to see her consider it properly and I want them to show me why she would be all in on Witnessing as opposed to trying to keep it as separate from her life as possible. Crane and Jenny are (on the surface) made for this while she seems like the more "normal" one.

 

Conflict on the issue of why this is so important and rewarding on a personal and an emotional level would elevate the stakes. In season one, she needed answers, was still reeling from Corbin's death and reuniting with Jenny, and facing her past. Now, they need to show me why she is not half heartedly doing the witness thing, show her figuring out why it is her destiny and why, despite appearances, she is the perfect person to be a witness. It needs to feel like a calling rather than duty. Abbie Mills has done duty most of her life, it's her default setting. Her wanting to be a witness like she wants to be FBI would make it much more compelling. I am looking forward to see how the FBI and LG's character help provide a balance and contrast that ultimately helps tip the scales in the favour of embracing her witness status.

 

PS: I really enjoyed seeing a lot of Abbie's FBI life tonight. I really want to see the FBI agent and the witness coexist for a while longer.

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benteen

benteen

I was going to say how I see it differently... but phoenics pretty much spoke my mind on this one. I know one of my biggest complaints about season was my difficulty in believing there are more than 10 people outside of TW in SH, so bring on the supporters. This world needs to feel full so I can care about them saving it.

 

I would also argue that they both need an "outside person" so I don't feel like they stick around each other by default. Sure Crane has had more of an opportunity to be tempted away from the partnership so I see why it's not as interesting to see him venture out but I would argue that for Abbie it's really necessary for her to consider other ways/options to live her life before recommitting to the team with full consideration this time.

When it all started, she kind of had no choice, now I want to see her consider it properly and I want them to show me why she would be all in on Witnessing as opposed to trying to keep it as separate from her life as possible. Crane and Jenny are (on the surface) made for this while she seems like the more "normal" one.

 

Conflict on the issue of why this is so important and rewarding on a personal and an emotional level would elevate the stakes. In season one, she needed answers, was still reeling from Corbin's death and reuniting with Jenny, and facing her past. Now, they need to show me why she is not half heartedly doing the witness thing, show her figuring out why it is her destiny and why, despite appearances, she is the perfect person to be a witness. It needs to feel like a calling rather than duty. Abbie Mills has done duty most of her life, it's her default setting. Her wanting to be a witness like she wants to be FBI would make it much more compelling. I am looking forward to see how the FBI and LG's character help provide a balance and contrast that ultimately helps tip the scales in the favour of embracing her witness status.

 

PS: I really enjoyed seeing a lot of Abbie's FBI life tonight. I really want to see the FBI agent and the witness coexist for a while longer.

 

I agree.  The town felt too damn small last season.  Whenever an interesting character would emerge, they would be killed in five minutes.  It literally felt like the only people in town were the 7-8 main characters and that was it.  Sleepy Hollow needs to be a thriving town with interesting characters and places.

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fantique

fantique

That reminds me of something Kevin Williamson said when explaining what convinced him to write for the Vampire Diaries despite its Twilight-ness. It was the town, and the creepy, well everything that hid around the corner while at first looking like a quaint little place. I absolutely loved Irving's line about there being a damn rose bush on every lawn (paraphrasing) while showing his disbelief at the HH murders. I want Sleepy Hollow to have that creepy suburbia feeling, it looks nice but there are monsters under every bed. It would be much needed world building.

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Blackhoney

Blackhoney

Tom and Lorenzo's review is even better. I love them and Io9's reviews. i live for them.

http://tomandlorenzo.com/2015/10/sleepy-hollow-returns-still-charming-but-directionless/

 

 

 

Similarly, we could not groan enough at super-booby Betsy Ross, superspy and Colonial lady who talks EXACTLY like a Millennial. We knew this one was coming so we were prepared for it, but even then we wound up disappointed. Tom Mison and Nicole Beharie have insane levels of chemistry together and the reason the show fell apart last season was because the creators did everything in their power to prevent that chemistry from ever seeing the light of day. There was some reason to hope for better when Katrina and Henry were removed from the equation, but they were replaced by more hot white ladies, one of whom is, if not in name at least in actions, effectively another witch.

So okay, yes. The show has a direction. Hot white ladies and witchcraft. This does not sound like a new direction at all to us. It just sounds like they’re trying to find another set of Katrinas because the first one was faulty and had to be sent back to the factory.

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fantique

fantique

(edited)

1456396453262260398.png

 

I didn't notice Jenny's expression but it's really strange.

 

That review was magnificent. I was cackling the whole way through and especially enjoyed the imagined discussion in the writers' room.

 

Oh and check out the sleepy hollow afterbuzz. It was funny because they kept calling out Mark Goffman and saying he was the destroyer on the tablet. Why do I like talking about this show more than I like to watch it?

Edited by fantique
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Blackhoney

Blackhoney

1456396453262260398.png

 

I didn't notice Jenny's expression but it's really strange.

 

That review was magnificent. I was cackling the whole way through and especially enjoyed the imagined discussion in the writers' room.

 

Oh and check out the sleepy hollow afterbuzz. It was funny because they kept calling out Mark Goffman and saying he was the destroyer on the tablet. Why do I like talking about this show more than I like to watch it?

Those Afterbuzz people are so hard to listen to. It's like the love listening to the sound of their own voices.

I remember when Lyndie was there and they talked all over her.

I'll give it a try though.

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Indi

Indi

She's one of my favorite reviewers. What was the kerfuffle? The Jordan Sargent article that caused a mass exodus from Gawker Media?

 

After their brilliant idea to announce Sexy!Smart!Betsy as their first and most important move for S3, Genevieve (among other journalists) wasn't too happy and voiced her concerns about it, which was just a reflection of the fandom, who had been waiting patiently for any news about the main characters. Leigh Dana Jackson, one of the producers was offended that we didn't "wait and see", before people complained about Sexy!Smart!Betsy, missing the point completely and engaging in one embarrassing argument with the few fans, that still cared to follow the SH news during the hiatus.

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fantique

fantique

Those Afterbuzz people are so hard to listen to. It's like the love listening to the sound of their own voices.

I remember when Lyndie was there and they talked all over her.

I'll give it a try though.

Oh really? I don't remember if I watched it.  I mean, my two favourites are Matt (who is no longer there) and Jacque and they are huge Jenny fans so I am surprised that they wouldn't let her talk.

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cynic

cynic

I signed up for ProjectFox (previously the Fox Fan Panel). There's a survey for Sleepy Hollow. It was fairly extensive, asking what I thought of each character, what my fave/least fave characters and relationships are, what I liked and disliked about the show, and how I would improve it. Lastly, it asked what I thought about a possible romantic relationship between Abbie and Crane. INTERESTING

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Ann Mack

Ann Mack

Those Afterbuzz people are so hard to listen to. It's like the love listening to the sound of their own voices.

I remember when Lyndie was there and they talked all over her.

I'll give it a try though.

 I listened to them and if they could keep their focus for more than five seconds on the current topic and not interrupt each other to introduce another topic it might be okay. The lead guy Zach right now has NO control especially over that Steve guy. Seriously he just runs his mouth constantly and makes the most non-funny comments I have ever heard. They were better last season, I don't think I'll be tuning in to too many more if this is what I have to look forward to. I can't recall the guys name who was the controller of the panel before Zach but he did a better job at least at reeling Steve in from time to time.

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BigEasygirl

BigEasygirl

(edited)

 I listened to them and if they could keep their focus for more than five seconds on the current topic and not interrupt each other to introduce another topic it might be okay. The lead guy Zach right now has NO control especially over that Steve guy. Seriously he just runs his mouth constantly and makes the most non-funny comments I have ever heard. They were better last season, I don't think I'll be tuning in to too many more if this is what I have to look forward to. I can't recall the guys name who was the controller of the panel before Zach but he did a better job at least at reeling Steve in from time to time.

Matt Lieberman.  I miss Matt too.  He and Jackie, imo, were the only reviewers who had anything of substance to say.  And Steve cut  Jackie off on a couple/several occasions, and then they didn't get back to what she wanted to say.  The show was a mixed bag, and if I do tune in again, it will be for Jackie alone and maybe the guest.

Edited by BigEasygirl
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fantique

fantique

Matt Lieberman.  I miss Matt too.  He and Jackie, imo, were the only reviewers who had anything of substance to say.  And Steve cut  Jackie off on a couple/several occasions, and then they didn't get back to what she wanted to say.  The show was a mixed bag, and if I do tune in again, it will be for Jackie alone and maybe the guest.

Yeah... Zach Wilson is a huge problem for me because I disagree with most of his ideas and storyline instincts. The only thing I ever agreed with him on is that there needs to be struggle in the mission. I like him a little bit more this year. 

 

These gals are back with their podcast.  It's pretty entertaining.

 

http://www.randomteapodcasts.com/sleepy-hollow/

I have never listened to those guys before. I will listen because I am doing a lot of coding and podcasts help. 

 

Started listening: I fucking love them. SPN and HP references. Official Pottermore sorting?!?! I love them. And they met at a Sherlock con????!!!!! Where have they been all my life. 

 

Also, podcast fandom was hilarious. I couldn't keep typing at some points because I was laughing so hard sometimes.

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DearEvette

DearEvette

Yeah... Zach Wilson is a huge problem for me because I disagree with most of his ideas and storyline instincts. The only thing I ever agreed with him on is that there needs to be struggle in the mission. I like him a little bit more this year. 

 

I have never listened to those guys before. I will listen because I am doing a lot of coding and podcasts help. 

 

Started listening: I fucking love them. SPN and HP references. Official Pottermore sorting?!?! I love them. And they met at a Sherlock con????!!!!! Where have they been all my life. 

 

Also, podcast fandom was hilarious. I couldn't keep typing at some points because I was laughing so hard sometimes.

 

I used to love listening to Afterbuzz, but I gave up on them late in S2.  They became way too mired in micro discussing Katrina and there was enough of it on the show, I didn't need them to follow it up on the podcast. I adore Jaquie, though,  for her ride or die love of all things Abbie/Ichabbie.  LOL.

 

I LOVE the Podcast Fandom crew.  They are hysterical and always have been.  I love how outraged the other two were that Nina Perez (the main host) didn't notice Betsy's boobs.  They were so done!  LOL.  Also, fyi, Nina Perez is a writer and she has a really good book called Sharing Spaces which is a romance/chick-lit type book and really good (sorry to plug it and it is off-topic, but it was good!)

 

I tried the Random Tea podcast but had to give up after like, 20 minutes.  They were picking at every nit.  At first I was liking their side research and how they incorporated it, but it seemed like they were heavy on the 'could this really happen...?' stuff.  At one point they were going on about Ichabod being in Scotland and how implausible it was for him to have a crypt there.  But that wasn't implausible.  His family had no body to bury and lots of people create headstones or crypts when there is no body so they have someplace symbolic to lay a flower.  Also they questioned the use of the term 'Walkabout' because Ichabod was not an Aboriginal Australian.  However Walkabout is also a British concept.  Usually I can enjoy when a tv show podcast can riff on something small, especially when the hosts are funny or incisive about it.  But this made me feel impatient.  By the the time I had decided to give up they hadn't even gotten to the opening credits. And I just wasn't enjoying it.  Oh well.

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Blackhoney

Blackhoney

Again, I’m not trying to be a wet blanket in this thread, but if there is one thing I have learned from season 2 it is not to believe anything from the cast, writers or producers until I see it.

 

However, my biggest issue continues to be the show’s need to team Crane up with other partners outside of Abbie. The writers keep trying to subvert Nicole as lead by giving Crane other partners. Betsy is Crane’s past life partner who Campbell has already told us is coming into modern times via a magical flag. Now you all tell me what you think is going to happen when she shows up in Sleepy Hollow in 2015?

 

Hmmmm….?

 

I’m no fool and the writers and showrunner can’t pull the wool over my eyes twice. When I heard Jenny was getting a partner in Joe Corbin I knew why. Jenny usually works with Ichabod and Abbie. By sending her off with Joe that leaves the Witnesses wide open to need help from another Hawley like character- who this season will be Betsy Ross.

 

The whole point of BR is undermine Abbie. Anyone who thinks otherwise hasn’t been paying attention. Any woman with ties to Crane only as a regular is there to undermine the relationship between the Witnesses. This is Sleepy Hollow’s continued problem, its own hatred of its female lead and need to undermine its own storyline with secondary storylines.

 

Clifton Campbell talks a good game, but BR will be this season’s Katrina. I put money on it.

 

Had he wanted to focus on the Witnesses he’d have brought in a HIGH COUNCIL or a YODA like character to guide Ichabod and Abbie, not some so-called sexy chick to play footsies with Ichabod under the table.


http://www.ew.com/article/2013/10/13/sleepy-hollow-dvr

This makes me SO HAPPY. Look at that jump! More discussion over in the ratings thread!

That article is from 2013.

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Watermelon

Watermelon

Again, I’m not trying to be a wet blanket in this thread, but if there is one thing I have learned from season 2 it is not to believe anything from the cast, writers or producers until I see it.

 

However, my biggest issue continues to be the show’s need to team Crane up with other partners outside of Abbie. The writers keep trying to subvert Nicole as lead by giving Crane other partners. Betsy is Crane’s past life partner who Campbell has already told us is coming into modern times via a magical flag. Now you all tell me what you think is going to happen when she shows up in Sleepy Hollow in 2015?

 

Hmmmm….?

 

I’m no fool and the writers and showrunner can’t pull the wool over my eyes twice. When I heard Jenny was getting a partner in Joe Corbin I knew why. Jenny usually works with Ichabod and Abbie. By sending her off with Joe that leaves the Witnesses wide open to need help from another Hawley like character- who this season will be Betsy Ross.

 

The whole point of BR is undermine Abbie. Anyone who thinks otherwise hasn’t been paying attention. Any woman with ties to Crane only as a regular is there to undermine the relationship between the Witnesses. This is Sleepy Hollow’s continued problem, its own hatred of its female lead and need to undermine its own storyline with secondary storylines.

 

Clifton Campbell talks a good game, but BR will be this season’s Katrina. I put money on it.

 

Had he wanted to focus on the Witnesses he’d have brought in a HIGH COUNCIL or a YODA like character to guide Ichabod and Abbie, not some so-called sexy chick to play footsies with Ichabod under the table.

That article is from 2013.

What's the point of Lance Gross' character?

 

Because from what I heard he was a past and potentially future love interest.  So now, at least in theory since we're only 1 episode in, Crane gets his SexyBetsy and Abbie gets another partner in the form of Daniel.  Both of them will now have outside connections requiring their attention.

 

This shapes up to be nothing like Season 2.

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Blackhoney

Blackhoney

What's the point of Lance Gross' character?

 

Because from what I heard he was a past and potentially future love interest.  So now, at least in theory since we're only 1 episode in, Crane gets his SexyBetsy and Abbie gets another partner in the form of Daniel.  Both of them will now have outside connections requiring their attention.

 

This shapes up to be nothing like Season 2.

His purpose is to help avert another #AbbieMillsDeservesBetter backlash.

Listen, only time will tell, but I see no Abbie/Daniel relationship on the horizon. I see a lot of uncomfortableness. Remember, we were told Hawley was Abbie's love interest last season but it never came to pass. Even now, Daniel is mentioned as a past, not future or even present love interest. Lance Gross has said his character will be jealous of Ichabod. Jealousy isn't a relationship. And as odd as it may sound, Abbie being in a relationship and having the human side of her explored is paramount to me this season. Cold, detached Abbie only concerned with Ichabod's happiness isn't gonna fly anymore, it never did with me. Tom by the way referred to his new love interest as just that a love interest and called her Ichabod's KINDRED SPIRIT. Seriously, Katrina hasn't been dead a year yet but Crane has already found a kindred spirit in a woman he just met. I just can't. LOL. 

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Watermelon

Watermelon

His purpose is to help avert another #AbbieMillsDeservesBetter backlash.

Listen, only time will tell, but I see no Abbie/Daniel relationship on the horizon. I see a lot of uncomfortableness. Remember, we were told Hawley was Abbie's love interest last season but it never came to pass. Even now, Daniel is mentioned as a past, not future or even present love interest. Lance Gross has said his character will be jealous of Ichabod. Jealousy isn't a relationship. And as odd as it may sound, Abbie being in a relationship and having the human side of her explored is paramount to me this season. Cold, detached Abbie only concerned with Ichabod's happiness isn't gonna fly anymore, it never did with me. Tom by the way referred to his new love interest as just that a love interest and called her Ichabod's KINDRED SPIRIT. Seriously, Katrina hasn't been dead a year yet but Crane has already found a kindred spirit in a woman he just met. I just can't. LOL. 

Hawley wasn't Abbie's love interest  because fans thought it super gross to have him switch sisters and for once, TPTB agreed.  It's obvious that they recalibrated, as opposed to when they just out and out lie about things.  You're right, jealousy isn't a relationship but he'll obviously have a working one with Abbie regardless of what happens with them romantically in the present.  

I think it helps me that I've missed all these articles and sound bites because while I don't necessarily trust the showrunners to do right, I'm not of the mindset that everything they plan to do is wrong.   And I'll worry about SexyBetsy being a kindred spirit when Ichabod stops looking at her like she's a weirdo.

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netlyon2

netlyon2

What's the point of Lance Gross' character?

 

Because from what I heard he was a past and potentially future love interest.  So now, at least in theory since we're only 1 episode in, Crane gets his SexyBetsy and Abbie gets another partner in the form of Daniel.  Both of them will now have outside connections requiring their attention.

Watermelon, while I'm not super-concerned (yet) about SexyBetsy being an attempt to sideline Abbie, I do have to say that I think there's a big difference between her impact as a potential love interest and Lance Gross/Daniel's.  Like Katrina, Betsy is already being presented as an important part of the battle with evil, independent of her involvement with Ichabod.  This means that she's in a position that could be made more central to the story (and therefore usurp our girl Abbie's lead status), just as Katrina's relationships with the Horsemen of Death and War became more and more of a focus. 

 

Unless Daniel turns out to be someone's descendent or something, his role as a love interest would be more comparable to . . . say, seamstress Caroline (RIP), if she and Ichabod had gotten involved.  He would be connected to the story through Abbie, but there wouldn't be enough there to make him central in his own right (again, that's if they don't add more layers/twistory to his character than what we have now).

 

Blackhoney, I'm sooooooo not a fan of the Abbie/Daniel backstory.  Essentially, they will either get together, which would undermine Abbie's professionalism in her new career, or they won't, which will just take us right back to where we began.  And you are so right:  jealousy is not a relationship.  Besides, we already danced that dance with Luke back in Season 1.  Give me something new, show.

 

My impression of the Hawley fiasco is that he was originally planned to be a love interest for Abbie.  Then that skeevy writer saw Lyndie in a dress and decided that Jenny should get a little action, too.  Somehow, the writers didn't realize that it would be not only gross but also pretty tired to have the two sisters involved with the same man, and when the negative fan reaction caused them to wise up, they threw him at Jenny, even after the Incordata episode (which could be subtitled "Nick and Abbie 4eva!").  I was pretty bummed at this, since I actually liked the way that the actor (Matt?) played Hawley's interest in Abbie.  That one scene in the Archives where he just stared at her in awe for a moment?  That's what I think Abbie deserves, so I was not happy that they screwed things up so badly.

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Blackhoney

Blackhoney

Hawley wasn't Abbie's love interest  because fans thought it super gross to have him switch sisters and for once, TPTB agreed.  It's obvious that they recalibrated, as opposed to when they just out and out lie about things.  

Nope, not true. The first 9 episodes were taped before the season began and in those 9 episodes they never not once did anything that pointed to Abbie and Hawley possibly becoming a couple. By the way, per Aaron Baiers, the writers didn't have a chance to make changes to the storyline until episode 15 which is when they simply sent Hawley packing. So while fans were grossed out by the idea of Abbie and Hawley, it was the writers who had long since abandoned the idea and sent him running back to Jenny I believe in episode 10.

Watermelon

Watermelon

My overarching point is, They weren't lying about Abbie/Hawley, they changed their minds. There were the long glances from Hawley and the rib wrapping scene. It was obvious where it was going, and it was just as clear they recalibrated. If I'm wrong and it was a writer decision as opposed to fans protesting Abbie getting with Jenny's former sex partner, that's cool.

I'm just not of the mind to put all the fuckery that was season 2 off on the writers of season 3. They all know #abbiemillsdeservesbetter, so until I see actual proof I'm not bothering with ZOMG Terrible accent Betsy Ross is going to be the new lead!!! It totally could happen, but until it does, I'm not borrowing trouble.

I just don't have the energy for it, TBH.

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