Speculation Without Spoilers Theories

[sistermagpie]

I heard a "crackpot theory" on a podcast - that Gabriel & Claudia are Elizabeth's true parents!  I think it's far-fetched, but I do believe there is a romantic history between them due to the way they kept covering one another's hand at the diner.  Anyway, that is supposed to explain why they both prefer Elizabeth to Phillip.  The host who presented the theory, didn't seem to take it to seriously, but it would make for an interesting story!

 

 

I have to say, all the theories where all the Russian characters we know are secretly related to each other seem like the exact opposite of interesting to me.  If Elizabeth is secretly the daughter of Claudia and Gabriel then instead of being an ordinary girl who showed some talent and so was thrown into a whole new world of international intrigue that doesn't much care about her she's  the heredity heir of a sci-fi conspiracy. She's "the special."

 

Also because there's so many of them it starts to seem like Russia has, like, 19 people in it. For background, the other theories I've heard besides Claudia being Elizabeth's mother and Gabriel being her father is that Zinaida is Elizabeth's mother, Zhukov is Elizabeth's father and Oleg's brother is Philip's son.

[John S]

I'd be shocked if a kid who's never been slapped in her life would be able to spit out any response other than crying and running away, tbh! :-) She's not her father who takes a wallop like it's nothing!

I agree that it probably wouldn't happen but this is supposed to be what she has been taught.

[Chaos Theory]

Well the Season 3 Finale literally gave us the date the show is at March 8, 1983.  If the show can last unit 1985 (or even 1984)  it has an historical reason to have the jennings get caught.  

 

1985: The Year of the Spy

[tennisgurl]

Think we might get a time skip, if they wanted to go there, and didn't want to wait? 

[sistermagpie]

Think we might get a time skip, if they wanted to go there, and didn't want to wait?

 

 

Given the cliffhanger we just got, why would they want a time skip? Plenty of other stuff happened before that. The family story's always dictated the timeframe.

[SunnyBeBe]

Man, I had to go hunting for this thread.  There hasn't been any speculation in a long time.

 

 I had this odd idea about what COULD happen. ( I haven't read this theory yet, and I think I've covered most all of the posts on the episode threads.)  What if Philip and Elizabeth send some very official looking FBI Agents (actual Russian accomplices)  to speak with Pastor Tim and Alice?  They could make it very official and top secret like.  They could say that they are aware of the Jennings spies and they are working on a plan to steal their secrets.  So, Pastor Tim and Alice have to stay quiet and not let anyone, including the Jennings, know that they are under surveillance. AND that the Pastor and Alice will also be under surveillance for several years or until all their secrets are discovered.  Or they could tell them that the Jennings are CIA agents and could not risk blowing their cover. That's why they lied and told Paige they were Russian spies.    I suppose anything like that might work.  At least it might buy them some time.   And oh, they would warn Pastor Tim that all of this is off the books and so secret that no one would have any record of it with the local office.  Even Headquarters would deny any knowledge of it. 

Edited April 13, 2016 by SunnyBeBe

[kikaha]

My latest speculation is that Martha will commit suicide with sleeping pills.  She looks seriously depressed now, and we've gotten several shots of her taking pills. 

[Umbelina]

She's taking valium.  Valium with booze.  She could kill herself accidentally that way, but I don't think it will be suicide.  Could be though.  The previews indicate something else will happen first anyway.

 

Poor Martha, she so screwed.

[SunnyBeBe]

Suicide would also be very problematic to their office. I mean, two suicides in just a few months time.....that's pretty odd.  Of course, they could just think that they were both spies.  

 

How much damage could Martha do?  She could do a composite of Clarke and if it's good enough, Stan would recognize him, but we've seen Stan miss it before. What if she gave false info about what Clark looks like and she forgets to mention his sister (E) and their pretend mother.  Oh, does Martha know that Clark's pretend family is not really his family?

[Umbelina]

I really doubt Martha could stand up to a real FBI interrogation.  At all.  She would spill everything eventually, and it probably wouldn't take very long.

 

At any rate, I don't think she's headed for FBI custody.  I think the KGB will get her.  I can't see Martha, husband-less, adapting well to Russia.  Or hell, even if she got to keep "Clark!"

[TimWil]

Martha's going off the rails in all directions seems to be leading to some unavoidable tragedy. Going by the trailer for next week's episode as well as rumors flying out there I'm starting to buy the idea that she somehow ends up shooting Agent Gaad to death when her intended targets were either Agent Aderholt or Stan.

[Umbelina]

I can't tell if any of the speculation here is from people who actually watched that promo or not.  Are promos considered spoilers?

[SunnyBeBe]

I posted my comment on the promo on the spoiler thread. I'm not very clear on which place  is appropriate. 

[spritz]

I thought it was curious that the writers would have Elizabeth be befriended by a Korean woman this season. Why a Korean?

 

I wonder if the show is going to feature the shooting down of the Korean airline flight 007 in some future episode. I don't know if the timing of the downing of the airliner fits with the time frame of this show, though.

 

In any case, Elizabeth's befriending of a Korean woman earlier this season would conveniently set up a storyline that would give Elizabeth a connection to the incident through her relationship with the Korean woman. I assume the writers would write a storyline that would have that Korean woman experience a personal loss due to the shoot down.

 

The story could subsequently focus on how the massacre might change, or not, Elizabeth's or Phillip's view of the system that they are working for.

 

[JennyMominFL]

I thought it was curious that the writers would have Elizabeth be befriended by a Korean woman this season. Why a Korean?

 

I wonder if the show is going to feature the shooting down of the Korean airline flight 007 in some future episode. I don't know if the timing of the downing of the airliner fits with the time frame of this show, though.

 

I

It could...Sept 1 1983

Edited April 20, 2016 by JennyMominFL

[GreenScreenFX]

I HOPE that is a random coincidence....

[sistermagpie]

I don't honestly think her being Korean has anything to do with that jet. I think it's just that she's an immigrant too, and not one specifically from the west--from the writer's pov, that is. Within the show I think she just happens to be related to somebody with security clearance.

 

Also, my feeling based on episode titles

It looks there's a time jump between eps that goes from April to November. I based on an ep title the references the David Copperfield special that aired in April followed by The Day After, which was in November.

[Inquisitionist]

I thought it was curious that the writers would have Elizabeth be befriended by a Korean woman this season. Why a Korean?

 

Elizabeth appears to be working her due to a connection with someone (likely her husband) who has the Level 4 security clearance that the Center wants for William.  Near the end of episode 4-2, Gabriel gave Elizabeth a list of people who had that clearance, and Young Hee is apparently who Elizabeth chose to work.  I imagine Elizabeth receives information about each person and the Mary Kay connection gave her a good opening for "infiltration."  Why the writers chose to make this character Korean is another matter, and I don't know if her ethnicity will play a larger role in the storyline.  Love the actress, though!

[BW Manilowe]

I thought it was curious that the writers would have Elizabeth be befriended by a Korean woman this season. Why a Korean?

I wonder if the show is going to feature the shooting down of the Korean airline flight 007 in some future episode. I don't know if the timing of the downing of the airliner fits with the time frame of this show, though.

In any case, Elizabeth's befriending of a Korean woman earlier this season would conveniently set up a storyline that would give Elizabeth a connection to the incident through her relationship with the Korean woman. I assume the writers would write a storyline that would have that Korean woman experience a personal loss due to the shoot down.

The story could subsequently focus on how the massacre might change, or not, Elizabeth's or Phillip's view of the system that they are working for.

I'm pretty sure I read, in "season preview" type articles with the showrunners, & others have also mentioned the same in other threads here, that the showrunners decided not to include the tragic Russian shootdown of Korean Airlines Flight 007 in the storyline, for whatever reason.

[TimWil]

I think there's probably a time jump coming up because the show shot its season from November to March. They could never set the show in the late spring/ summer-it would be too difficult to duplicate plus they had to keep Keri Russell in heavy coats!

Edited April 21, 2016 by TimWil

[Chaos Theory]

Re:Martha

"She had access to everything." How true that statement actually is. Poor sweet gullible dowdy Martha. I once heard someone say "Be good to your secretary because they know more about you then even your wife does." Martha was and is so dangerous because she had access to everything.

She had access to everything. Martha knows what Philip looks like. She knows he is KGB. She knows he has a "partner". To keep her loyal and active he had to give her access and now she is a genuine threat.

My guess is that the hunt for Martha will be the KGB trying to kill her and the FBI trying to get to her first to see what she told and to see what she knows.

And Martha had access to everything.

Which is again why I just think it is a better story to have the FBI get to her first. Drama wise it keeps the pressure on. If the KGB gets to her it relieves the pressure and this season is all about pressure.

Edited April 22, 2016 by Chaos Theory

[AliShibaz]

If you were Martha and you had left the house with Gabriel and managed to get away without meeting Clark who was on his way back ...

 

Where would you go and what would you do when you got there?  If I was Martha, I would think the choices would be:

1) Spend the rest of my life in an American prison.

2) Spend the rest of my life living in Moscow as a free Russian citizen.

3) Suicide

 

But maybe if I asked for a lawyer, I might be able to negotiate a good deal by promising to co-operate with the FBI and give them all the info I could (not sure that I would ever tell them what Clark really looks like though).

 

But what about you? What possible plan could Martha have in mind? She can't use any credit cards. She can't travel out of the city. What in the world could she possibly try to do? What would you do?

 

One other important issue seems to be, will Clark meet up with her on his way back to the house? If he doesn't find her and no other KBG agents can find her, wouldn't that be almost fatal to the show? Could Phillip & Elizabeth ever avoid getting arrested if the FBI get their hands on Martha before the KGB does?

 

Just a guess, but my feeling is that Clark just had to find Martha on his way back to the house and talk her into going back with him. There is hardly any other alternative except ...

 

OMG! I hate to say this. But if Martha is not willing to go back to the house with Phillip, will he have to kill her?

Edited April 24, 2016 by AliShibaz

[SunnyBeBe]

I can't envision Clarke asking Martha to do something and her refusing.  She's so invested in him and any thread of hope she would place with him, IMO.  So, I hope she finds him.  I would think she would call that special phone number and maybe get through to someone, but we'll see.  Wouldn't it be funny if she just disappears and neither side knows where she is?  

 

I have a question on a part spoiler, part speculation. I guess I'll take it to that spoiler thread. Why is it so difficult to get to that thread now.  

[Chaos Theory]

I honestly don't think Martha is thinking clearly right now. She is in fight or flight mode. I actually think her trust in Clarke is all but gone which is why she will head to the FBI. Her flight instinct will drive her there because it offers her the best option for survival. She will deal with the rest when it comes.

Edited April 25, 2016 by Chaos Theory

[SunnyBeBe]

Yeah, but if she gets to the FBI, P & E and maybe Gabriel are toast.

[AliShibaz]

I honestly don't think Martha is thinking clearly right now. She is in fight or flight mode. I actually think her trust in Clarke is all but gone which is why she will head to the FBI. Her flight instinct will drive her there because it offers her the best option for survival. She will deal with the rest when it comes.

 

I think you are correct based on the maxim, "The devil that you know is better than the one you don't."  Do you remember the incredible look of hatred on her face when she told Gabriel, "Everyone will know you are a KGB"! It was really extreme.

[SunnyBeBe]

Okay. I have so many things that I anticipate right now.  One of them involves that computer in the Jennings house.  I'm now thinking that Henry may show Paige how to do some school work on it.  She then decides to type something about her feelings, which include her parents' secrets.  She may get confused and not delete it.  So, does Henry then read it and wonder WTF or does Stan's son try to help Henry on the computer and he's the one who finds it?  

[Umbelina]

Yeah, that computer is the real "Chekhov's gun."  I don't know how it will play into things, but it most certainly will.  They are showing Henry becoming very proficient at that thing, much more than mom and dad.

[Chaos Theory]

New Speculation.  We see Martha doing the speak tour engagement thing in Russia like that Russian woman whose name escapes me.  At first she does in reluctantly but soon finds all the attention thrilling.   We have already seen through Nina how traitors are treated.  What about people who are considered by the Russians to be heroes? 

 

Stan and Gaad find out she is in Russia and decide to go get her at any price.  

As for "Chekhov's gun"  maybe it will never be used other then as a fake out.  Maybe Philip will use it on Pastor Tim.  Or maybe it will eventually come into play in some other fashion.  Stan finds Martha's gun somewhere it has no  business being.   Then again the FBI still haven't found the bug in the mail robot so who knows?

Edited April 28, 2016 by Chaos Theory

[SunnyBeBe]

I'm still thinking that Martha may be pregnant and if the show goes on long enough, we will see some little Russians.  Maybe one named after his dad. 

[misstwpherecool]

On 4/28/2016 at 4:29 PM, SunnyBeBe said:

I'm still thinking that Martha may be pregnant and if the show goes on long enough, we will see some little Russians.  Maybe one named after his dad. 

Or the punch in the stomach took care of that. May Elizabeth punched there on purpose knowing there was a chance she could be with Clarke's child.

Also, in the most recent epi they made it a point to say "They married her". If that's a "legal" marriage could that be used to keep Martha from testifying against her husband but then again that would be null & void since it was done under fraudulent circumstances.

[SunnyBeBe]

Good point. But, even if it was fraud against Martha, it would be her right to assert that. If she chose, she could claim the marital confidential privilege.  My concern might be if it's valid due to his marriage to Elizabeth. Do P & E have a marriage license?  Was he already married and therefor the one to Martha was bigamous?  And if he wasn't really Clarke does that void the marriage?  So many questions, but I there is an argument of privilege.  Maybe, it won't every come to that.  I'm hoping that Martha can find love and happiness again.  Certainly, some Russian with American travel experience and knowledge of English would be available in Russia....perhaps if Oleg returns.

[Umbelina]

It was fraud.  She would have no "privilege" argument, and she'd be trying to avoid execution.  A punch wouldn't kill a baby the size of the tip of a needle.  She probably did hope for a baby with that sex, the wording was so revealing, but that doesn't mean it happened. 

Sadly, as much as I want to see Martha Does Moscow, I think she's a goner.

It was actually very nice of Elizabeth to subdue her that way, she could have easily killed her, and she would have been justified in that, or appeared to be.

[SunnyBeBe]

I have a fantasy of Oleg and Martha hooking up.  He may want to protect Martha since STan was the guy who was responsible for Nina having to return to Russia and not now Stan is the reason that Martha has to go to Russia. Stan sure is intent on hurting good women who are caught up in the mess, but why can't he catch some real criminals? Plus, what about the innocent Russian that Stan killed.    I'm only half way kidding.

Edited April 30, 2016 by SunnyBeBe

[sistermagpie]

I don't know whether Martha or Nina really count as 'good women' caught up in the mess. They were both employees of their respective intelligence agencies who started doing low-level rule-breaking. I wouldn't judge either of them as "bad" either, especially compared to everybody else on the show, but while I think Stan behaved badly with Nina (having sex with her at all was so wrong) I don't think he's done anything wrong to Martha at all. It's not exactly his fault she's going to Russia just because he's the one who caught her exposing the US and their agents to danger.

Re: Martha being pregnant, wow imagine how terrible it would be to have yet another story of Philip having a baby mama in Russia who either has a kid or has a fake kid. He maybe took a risk by his own standards by not using a condom but I'd hope she was also on some kind of birth control since they were having sex regularly and were not trying to have kids.

'

[Umbelina]

I hope Martha lives long enough to find out if she's pregnant, but alas, I don't think that's in the cards...

[sistermagpie]

44 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

I hope Martha lives long enough to find out if she's pregnant, but alas, I don't think that's in the cards...

Yeah, I can't help but think that too. And I suspect that Philip himself, if he considered the idea at all, would either agree or figure at least he could give her a baby. But he doesn't seem to like the idea of having a kid he doesn't raise.

[crgirl412]

Quote

I suspect Martha has been contaminated with tularemia from the rat sample in the freezer....placed in the ice by Gabriel, Philip or Elizabeth. The ice pack was used to soothe her bruised stomach. Tularemia passes through damaged skin, but is not contagious person to person. Meanwhile, Tatiana is telegraphing the soviets to handle the package with caution and care. I couldn't figure out if Tatiana was talking about the rat sample or Martha, but I think they are one in the same. Clever way of passing the germ warfare back to Mother Russia. Just a thought.

The quote is from a Mary Beth Colton on The Americans Facebook page.  It's a VERY interesting thought!  

[sistermagpie]

It is far easier to carry an infected rat to Russia than infect a person with the disease by sticking it in the freezer and then putting it on Martha. And I'm sure any scientist would also prefer to have a rat in their lab than some feverish woman. The show really doesn't do this kind of wacky sci-fi stuff.

[SunnyBeBe]

Well, I hope that Martha doesn't get the disease and that she is able to find happiness one day.  Regardless, of what she did, IMO, it was as a result of ignorance, brain washing, intimidation and fear.  I really don't want another Nina type scene. 

[AliShibaz]

There must be some important meaning to all those dramatic glances between Oleg and Tatiana. But what could they be? What could be the importance of Tatiana hesitating before sending her message to Moscow? What else was she considering saying? I'm thinking that if only we knew that, we might just find the answer to the questions about Martha's future. I sure would love to know what will be happening to Martha and I'm guessing those answers have something to do with Tatiana and her hesitation and dramatic glances. What do you think? Does anyone here have any gueses? It's just driving me crazy. What does she know? I'm just guessing. But, I'm guessing it's something very important. What do you think?

[Anela]

On 4/18/2016 at 4:36 PM, Umbelina said:

I can't tell if any of the speculation here is from people who actually watched that promo or not.  Are promos considered spoilers?

We have a spoiler thread? I can't seem to find it.

[SunnyBeBe]

17 hours ago, AliShibaz said:

There must be some important meaning to all those dramatic glances between Oleg and Tatiana. But what could they be? What could be the importance of Tatiana hesitating before sending her message to Moscow? What else was she considering saying? I'm thinking that if only we knew that, we might just find the answer to the questions about Martha's future. I sure would love to know what will be happening to Martha and I'm guessing those answers have something to do with Tatiana and her hesitation and dramatic glances. What do you think? Does anyone here have any gueses? It's just driving me crazy. What does she know? I'm just guessing. But, I'm guessing it's something very important. What do you think?

Yes, they seem to look at each other, but, I wasn't sure what to make of it.  I guess, I thought it was cultural or something. Maybe some other fans will chime in.  I sometimes think they don't like speculation or spoilers and they stay clear of these threads. I LOVE it, though.  I enjoy a show much more when I know what is going to happen. lol I tend to speculate a lot about this show, but I'm normally not right. I was right once, that I recall, about the young man who killed his parents. 

[tennisgurl]

After tonight, I am convinced that Tatinana is some kind of internal affairs type, who was assigned to watch Oleg, because someone higher up thinks that he might defect. That story tonight about having a brother being deployed was WAY too convenient. She is trying to get in with him, and I feel like that has to be the reason why. Granted, I could see why a woman would want to hang out with Oleg for normal, non government sanctioned reasons, but I am very suspicious. 

It actually makes me lean farther into the "Oleg defects at some point" idea. I spend an embarrassing amount of time thinking about this. 

Edited May 5, 2016 by tennisgurl

[Conan Troutman]

That's been my assumption, too, but what if it's the complete opposite? We don't really know anything about her, so she could go in any direction.

Eventually, Stan has to find out about the Jenningses, and either he has a Hank-on-the-crapper moment or someone spills the beans to him, which would most likely be someone in the Rezidentura. Oleg seems to be the obvious choice for that, but maybe we shouldn't get fixated on that idea too much. 

[crashdown]

I predict that Stan's finding out about Philip and Elizabeth will be one of my top 10 favorite television moments ever.

[SunnyBeBe]

Stan certainly will find out, IMO.  That's why I don't understand why P & E have not gathered intel on him to hold over his head.  If they had enough info on him, like photos, they could portray him as a traitor.  The threat of it, could be enough to buy them some time. They need photos of him in their house, them in his house, them together in his car, and as many dates and facts to support the fact that HE is not as he appears.  They seem to have a hands off approach with him.  

[FormerMod-a1]

On 5/2/2016 at 8:21 PM, Anela said:

We have a spoiler thread? I can't seem to find it.

Right here.

[hellmouse]

I have been thinking about the situation with "Patty" and Don and Young Hee. I think that the situation will play out in two ways: 1) emotionally for Elizabeth as she experiences what it's like to lose a friend and 2) logistically as getting the level 4 access creates a new level of risk of exposure (to the diseases and law enforcement), especially for William. The risk could be heightened by a possible reconnection between Stan and Oleg. 

Tatiana works on the biowarfare project. She seems to the be the point person for getting the diseases from USA back to USSR. Arkady knows the gist of what she's doing, but he has no control over it. Oleg doesn't know what she's doing, but he was suspicious of her before. Now that he's sleeping with her, he may trust her more. But he may also be able to use the relationship to find out more about what she's doing. 

Stan has been encouraged by Gaad to pursue Oleg again. Maybe finding about about nasty diseases and biowarfare is something that Oleg would tell Stan. There can only be so many labs working on those diseases, so if Stan decided to investigate, it could lead him to Don.

I think Elizabeth is going to try to blackmail Don into getting the level 4 codes. It seems like awfully flimsy leverage. Is he going to be willing to commit treason to keep the the Patty sex secret from his wife? Maybe it would work this one time, but I suspect they'll want Level 4 codes on an ongoing basis, and they must change the codes frequently. How long will this threat work for? 

William is unenthusiastic about getting Level 4 codes and doesn't trust Russia (or the USA) with the biowarfare materials. Will this operation compromise William? Would he inform on Philip and Elizabeth if he were arrested? Would the KGB be able to exfiltrate him before that could happen? He seems unlikely to defect, but he also seems jaded about his hero's welcome back in the USSR. 

Truly speculation... and knowing this show, the storyline could wrap over to next season, only to be resolved in season 5 (!) episode 6 or something!

Edited May 14, 2016 by hellmouse

[Umbelina]

27 minutes ago, hellmouse said:

I have been thinking about the situation with "Patty" and Don and Young Hee. I think that the situation will play out in two ways: 1) emotionally for Elizabeth as she experiences what it's like to lose a friend and 2) logistically as getting the level 4 access creates a new level of risk of exposure (to the diseases and law enforcement), especially for William. The risk could be heightened by a possible reconnection between Stan and Oleg. 

Tatiana works on the biowarfare project. She seems to the be the point person for getting the diseases from USA back to USSR. Arkady knows the gist of what she's doing, but he has no control over it. Oleg doesn't know what she's doing, but he was suspicious of her before. Now that he's sleeping with her, he may trust her more. But he may also be able to use the relationship to find out more about what she's doing. 

Stan has been encouraged by Gaad to pursue Oleg again. Maybe finding about about nasty diseases and biowarfare is something that Oleg would tell Stan. There can only be so many labs working on those diseases, so if Stan decided to investigate, it could lead him to Don.

I think Elizabeth is going to try to blackmail Don into getting the level 4 codes. It seems like awfully flimsy leverage. Is he going to be willing to commit treason to keep the the Patty sex secret from his wife? Maybe it would work this one time, but I suspect they'll want Level 4 codes on an ongoing basis, and they must change the codes frequently. How long will this threat work for? 

William is unenthusiastic about getting Level 4 codes and doesn't trust Russia (or the USA) with the biowarfare materials. Will this operation compromise William? Would he inform on Philip and Elizabeth if he were arrested? Would the KGB be able to exfiltrate him before that could happen? He seems unlikely to defect, but he also seems jaded about his hero's welcome back in the USSR. 

Truly speculation... and knowing this show, the storyline could wrap over to next season, only to be resolved in season 5 (!) episode 6 or something!

These are really good questions!

I think the idea of Stan getting involved somehow with Don is a good guess, but I think Oleg's story will go elsewhere, unless Tatiana has his dad killed for disobeying orders.  I don't trust that woman one bit.  I do think Oleg is going to switch sides, but it's going to take more for him to do that.  Again, life as a double is precarious, as he just saw with Nina.  WHY would he trust the FBI? 

I just can't see blackmail working on Don, it's flimsy, as you said.  Also, I think Don would see right through anything Liz or Phil tried to pull here, and report it.  That MAY be how Stan becomes involved.  Unless Liz has something else planned that we haven't thought of, which I think is likely?  I think this one will blow up the Jennings, or at least be a very, very close call for them.  I just don't think it's going to work.

William defecting?  Very possible if he could get a good deal, but he'd probably be screwed and doubled and he knows it.  The FBI isn't exactly above board either.  I doubt he trusts the FBI anymore than he trusts the KGB, I wouldn't.