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S11.E12: Don't You Forget About Me


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Hah. I remember my brothers and cousin, in their late teens, descending on my grandmother's kitchen after school, and being like locusts. Constant eating. Now, normally, thirties-aged guys won't be able to pack it in quite as much, but Dean and Sam are quite active, so probably still have high metabolisms and can handle that much food.

Unless Jody was serving rotisserie chicken, or the meal was two hours later, her putting another chicken on was like magic! ;-)

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I laughed out loud* during the dinner scene. The sight of Sammy stuffing food into his mouth to avoid responding to Jody's statements and Dean's "What?"! Oh dear lord, that was hysterical.

But while I was laughing, I also wondered why Dean would avoid responding. He tends to take on the father-figure role a lot of the time...even though his advice might not match our expectations for a traditional father.** Sam's the one who does the heart-felt talks (traditional mother action), while Dean comes on strong. Sam's one-on-one with Claire didn't have much result. But Dean's strong words with her clearly had an effect because he was able to get her to agree to seeing the registrar with Jody -- just by sternly saying her name. 

 

 

*a very rare thing for TV watching these days

**he did give Claire a weapon and a book on hunting

 

 

ETA: Well, something went wrong...had to delete stuff that shouldn't be there.

 

I was kind of really bothered by that reaction after I was done laughing at the comedy aspect.

 

My fanwank is that it was played for laughs not because the guys are totally clueless about teenagers because we know that's not true with Krissy and Ben, but more because he and Sam were completely thrown by that particular conversation coming out of left field when they were there for dinner and figuring out what was up Claire as a hunter and they don't really know Alex at all.

 

I think once Dean and Jodi were talking in the kitchen and then Dean with reading Claire the riot act about how she disregards Jodi was more in keeping with how he dealt with Krissy. He was gruff but it was something Claire needed to hear. 

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Ugh. Why do they keep bringing this unlikable character back every year?? Nobody cares about Clair and her sullen, crappy wannabe-hunter attitude.

Now Jody is saddled with looking after her.

Alex is an okay character and not as annoying as Claire.

Give it up, Carver, no one would be interested in watching this girl or any other teenagers be hunters.

That dinner scene was made of awesome, though.

Edited by Ferniesfreckles
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I probably would watch if it was just Jodi and Alex. I think they already tested the teenage hunter backdoor pilot and it didn't work out for them. I never found Krissy likable either. I found Claire to be kind of dimwitted and not a character that I appreciate. They are really pushing the teenage hunter thing with her. How does a young, novice hunter go at it alone and not get eaten? She has a book and a knife. 

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I think I've given Claire a fair chance after 3 episodes and I just don't like the character. I do like Alex though and wouldn't mind seeing her back more.

 

I just don't particularly care for Newton's acting choices. 

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Unless Jody was serving rotisserie chicken, or the meal was two hours later, her putting another chicken on was like magic! ;-)

It only takes around an hour to roast a chicken, I just wouldn't have another sitting around waiting to go in the oven. Someone must have run to the store.

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Eh, I found the episode pretty talky and extremely boring, but I will say the relationships were well-written and nothing seemed particularly egregious. I guess it's another one for the "well, it wasn't offensive" file.

 

They did manage to get a chuckle out of me when Jodi said, "If we can't talk about it, we shouldn't be doing it. Right?" Gotta love Jodi!

 

Too bad Sam didn't recognize that vampire used to be Pride; could've have saved him a beat down later. ;)  I swear that "teenage" boy from the teaser was also in another episode (or two or three) but can't place it right now. I know, I know, I could go look it up, but where would be the challenge in that?

 

In other sort-of-related-deja vu news: I had a similar discussion with my niece the other day about school as Dean did with Clair...and I said pretty much the same thing: "Yeah, nobody likes school, but sometimes you have to do things you don't like." 

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My dad's refrain - not necessarily school related - was "Life is full of doing things you don't wanna do." I hated hearing it at the time, but dang, it's true and not a bad thing to have learned early on. 

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Well, so I saw this idea floating around tumblr land about the condom conversation and it pointed out the there are 3 "angel condoms" at dinner and pointed out Jody saying "As long as everyone uses condoms we'll all be fine" 

 

I was like HOLY CRAP. That didn't even register with me. 

 

If that was intentional foreshadowing by Nancy Won, then I give her mad props for sliding that in there. 

Edited by catrox14
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My dad's refrain - not necessarily school related - was "Life is full of doing things you don't wanna do." I hated hearing it at the time, but dang, it's true and not a bad thing to have learned early on. 

 

Yeah, just this morning my dad had a little temper tantrum because he didn't feel like making a sandwich (too much work). Yesterday or the day before, he ran out of cigarettes and walking to the store seemed like too much trouble to him, so he just got out an old pipe and stood around smoking his pipe instead. He lost his last job because he would sit there watching movies (8 Mile got two thumbs up from him) and taking naps. That was NOT his job description LOL. Then he did the "you can't fire me, I quit!" thing when they got pissed at him, so he didn't even get unemployment. Hasn't worked since (that was about a decade ago). Last time I had finals (maybe a year ago? for grad school), he made fun of me for studying and I realized that the man left school so early (age 14) that he has literally never taken a final in his life. Don't get me started -- that's just the tip of the iceberg. I love him and he's got a lot of good attributes, but dealing with him can be maddening. He's not a Storybook Father kind of guy.

 

Being like that is one way to instill a strong work ethic in your child, though :P. I wasn't surprised that Alex, the daughter of a bunch of drifter thieves, is actually busting her ass in school.

 

So anyway, I think that Dean was just being The Dad with Claire, which is a role he slips into fairly easily. I didn't read that much into him telling her she had to do her schoolwork. He's a pretty dutiful, responsible, and conscientious person himself, and Sam was always a good student -- so I figured that of course Dean would be like, "but Claire, you have to do your work!" Not that Dean has never blown anything off, but fundamentally, he has a pretty good work ethic and seems like he expects other people to have a pretty good work ethic, too.

 

I thought that Sam and Dean's discomfort with Jodi's sex talk at the dinner table was just that it was such "girl talk," and a mother/daughter kind of thing. To me, it was like they found themselves in the Girls' Clubhouse all of a sudden and were like WUTTTTT. But they handled it OK. I mean, I imagine sitting there at a friend's dinner table while he gives his son a talk about girls and ~his changing body~ or whatever and OMFG, I would also not really want to join in the discussion!

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Innocuous filler. I'm not into the teen stuff, but I think the one who plays Alex is a better actress than the one who plays Claire. Still love Jody. Loved her and Dean doing the dishes together. They had some nice chemistry going on there, IMO. Dean in that black trench coat was the best thing about this one to me.

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I just was messing about on Tumblr and found this edit of Dean during the dinner scene. I'm pinpointing this particular moment that I really didn't notice the first time around and it's brilliant understated comic acting from Jensen (which I always prefer to his broader comic moments)

 

Look at Dean's face and his hand.  He wants to pick up the fork or the plate but then he's getting yelled at and he's so confused as to what to do and it's all sold by that little hand movement. And the he just wants more potatoes.  

 

/crying

 

tumblr_o2718c1wPy1unydtyo1_250.giftumblr_o2718c1wPy1unydtyo2_r1_250.gif

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It's interesting to me while watching, what strikes me after when watching this after having finally seen all the previous episodes in the series versus watching this without having all the background knowledge.  For example, the first time I watched this, I don't think I knew the entire background story of either girl, in context.  Or all the history with Jody.  It does make a difference.  All that...

  • I rolled with laughter nearly this whole ep.  Not sure I laughed as much the first time though.  But I can really appreciate the guy's reactions so much more after having seen them go through all the seasons.
  • I liked the character beats in this ep.  Yes, there's a lot of Jody and Claire and Alex.  But if you look close, you really see a lot of Dean and Sam we don't usually get to see.  
  • The Elvis.  Haha.  I wanted to see Dean eat that.  Also very nice how he immediately told Claire (obviously from the Caddyshack comment) they were on their way - no further questions.  That's dependable.  That's wonderful.  
  • Liked the Jody hugs again.  Was it the last time we saw Jody, that they didn't really hug her?  It was one of the recent ones - which was just weird.  This was a nice little homecoming.  
  • That dinner scene was hilarious.  I know this was discussed ad nauseum in another thread - and I can't remember which - but fwiw, Sam is the only one with food hanging (for a brief moment) from his mouth.  They both chew with their mouths open and closed...in short, after watching, and rewinding several times to watch each separate brother's reactions during different parts of the conversation - Imo, neither one had better or worse manners than the other.  And over all, their manners were just fine.  At the beginning of the meal, Claire was getting a kick out of them enjoying the food.  I thought that was sweet.  
  • Sam was so obviously uncomfortable during the sex talk part, and Dean was all enraptured bystander (til he got called on the spot.)  I thought Dean's thought process at the time was like "Ooh, so this is what it might have been like..." while Sam's was "Sex talk with teen girls.  Abort! Abort!"  Both pretty true to character overall.  
  • Dean talking to Claire about appreciating what Jody has done for her and evil-eyeing Alex's boyfriend was precious.  I know early in the series, it was all, both brothers have to go down fighting, 'in a blaze of glory' etc, etc.  But I think it would be a darn shame if Dean never got his own family.  (not Lisa and Ben, obviously).  I hope they at least leave the ending open for interpretation where that could happen.  
  • I did like that, even though Sam got whacked on the head and knocked down, he was able to get back up and defeat his attacker instead of someone having to come to his rescue.  Meanwhile Dean took out the janitor vamp (older and stronger than Sam's opponent, so I hope there is no denigration of either brother about that) and took care of the ladies.  The ladies, who were all smart, and resourceful, and caring once again.  (Two eps in a row!)  Wonderful!  

Yeah, I Liked it.  Kind of weird thing with Alex at the end that she was going to have to leave because she couldn't be around the things they were hunting.  I wonder if that will be revisited in the future?

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On 2/4/2016 at 0:03 PM, dragonsbite said:

But while I was laughing, I also wondered why Dean would avoid responding. He tends to take on the father-figure role a lot of the time...even though his advice might not match our expectations for a traditional father.**[snip]**he did give Claire a weapon and a book on hunting

Well, I guess it depends on the father.  :)  Mine, when I was 5 and my older brother hit me and made me cry, took me down to the basement and taught me how to box on a punching bag so I'd be able to hit him back properly the next time!  (He also 'held him down' and let me hit him that time.  And 'the next time' never came because he had a "talk" with my brother about hitting girls - and his younger sister in particular.) 

I guess that's why I think Dean would make such a great Dad, For Real.  

On 2/4/2016 at 1:56 PM, rue721 said:

Plus, homemade food is different if you don't have to cook it yourself!

I don't think roasting a chicken is a lot of work, but I wonder how much Sam can put away?! Would one chicken even hold both the Winchesters for dinner? When I was single back in college, I'd roast a chicken and then eat from it for at least 3-4 days, and end up having to throw the carcass away with at least a little meat still on it. But then I started dating a guy who was 6'2 and over 200 lbs. I still remember cutting up a whole chicken and frying it for us to have for lunch, thinking that we'd each eat a couple pieces and then have the rest for dinner and then again for a couple meals (as sandwiches or a pot pie or something) the next day. BUT HE ATE THE WHOLE THING FOR LUNCH! THE WHOLE CHICKEN!!! I could make a pot pie and it would be gone after 1-2 meals! If I bought steak, I'd have to buy two separate steaks because he'd eat one all by himself! If I bought fish, he'd insist I cook it ALL that same day! It was amazing. I'm a pretty hearty eater myself, and always try to err on the side of having too much food around, but I'd be worried about cooking for two men the Winchesters' size, js. :P

One chicken would probably feed both of the Winchesters for dinner.  But no one else.  :D.  I have two older brothers, both over 6'.  They are older now, but when it comes to family meals at Thanksgiving and Christmas - and like you said, when you don't have to cook it yourself - they can STILL put a good bit of food away!  Especially my still single brother.  (And he's lanky like Sam).  I forget how much they can eat cause I am not used to cooking that much by myself.  I always have to adjust.  I'll double what I'd normally cook for me, and that's still not enough for even one of them.

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11 hours ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

I did like that, even though Sam got whacked on the head and knocked down, he was able to get back up and defeat his attacker instead of someone having to come to his rescue.

Heh, more brain damage for Sam!!! ;)

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I love Sam refusing to die of a heart attack and Dean pulling the "starving children" argument. Nice to see Alex getting the hang of the normal teenager thing after a rough start. I like Claire and Alex being brats to each other and the family not letting Sam and Dean leave during this conversation. The way Sam just starts shoveling food when asked about "suiting up" and Jody just downing the entire glass of wine. I love the way Dean sticks up for Jody and tries to get through to Claire. I'm glad we get a brief reaction shot from Jody when the vampire says something about killing his wife and son. I tend to forget about her family and I like when the show remembers to remind me. I love that moment where Claire says Alex hates her and Alex immediately jumps in to try to save her. 

God, it's raining, Dean! Why are the windows down?! I love that Sam is all "Dude! Ribs!" at the end. I feel like his Jared is showing. I like that Alex wants to just leave once she has her life together. The supernatural world hasn't exactly been kind to her. 

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Ugh, Claire again.  And Alex isn't much better.  Yeah, yeah, so Claire was right about the monsters, but she definitetely shouldn't be a hunter, at least not until she learns how to fight.  I expected Jody to be better, but she probably doesn't get a whole lot of practice.  And yeah, I know vamps are stronger than normal humans.

That dinner scene was hilarious.  Sam and Dean enjoying a home cooked meal (and btw, there's a kitchen in that MoL place, right?  can't they cook food rather than eating take out all the time?), and the sex talk, haha.

I also liked Dean giving Alex's boyfriend the 'dad eye', though it ended up not doing much given he was a vamp.

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53 minutes ago, Hanahope said:

And yeah, I know vamps are stronger than normal humans.

Except for when they aren't. Don't get me started on that.

 

54 minutes ago, Hanahope said:

can't they cook food rather than eating take out all the time?), and the sex talk, haha.

Apparently Dean makes amazing burgers.  But, IMO, food is always better when someone else cooks it for you:)

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Is Claire going to be in Wayward Daughters? Because, if so, they are going to have to do a LOT to make her watchable for me. Rewatching this episode is crazy-making because of her character. And whatever the next episode with her was didn’t improve my opinion of her. 

Egad, she’s obnoxious. 

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On 2/3/2016 at 9:48 PM, AwesomO4000 said:

I always got the impression in general that the show itself didn't think all that much about school. I've generally thought that the show seemed to value life experience much more than formal education, so I don't think the implication was that Claire got her recklessness from Dean.

 

And Dean might see more value in formal education now, but I think he was basically implying that it wasn't supposed to be fun, but a means to an end... in other words, hard work. That was my impression anyway.

I agree and will add that I think Dean is not a person who loves school and that is totally fine. In fact, didn't he get his GED, or did I make that up? I love school. I went back to school because I "am good at it" and enjoy it. My husband is the polar opposite. He hates it and will only do classes or training as a means to an end. As an example, he was good with paramedic school because it was directly related to what he wanted to do. He hated the undergrad work he did because he didn't see the value in English Lit or something. 

I don't think the show was trying to imply that he didn't see value and I really think the show was trying to make a parallel the other way. Not that Dean passed on his recklessness to Claire, but instead that she, like Dean, is practical about what she wants and going after it.

On 2/4/2016 at 6:16 AM, Trisan said:

I'm totally in for the Jody / Claire / Alex show... or "Wayward Daughters", I like that title !

Although it may require Jody to bite the dust to kick it off and that would be a loss !

Dont understand the Claire hatred though, I really like the character and the actress and wish to see more of her !

So help me, if they hurt Jody . . . .

I don't understand the Claire hatred either, but I suspect part of it is that she really does feel like a teenage girl and, having been one myself, teenage girls are difficult. The hormones. The constant struggle to be seen and respected because you think you are so old and you don't want to be treated like a kid, which wars with the fact that you don't have much life experience under your belt and are still developing. It's tough. Add to it that she has suffered from a lot of trauma and the character is complex.

 

On 2/4/2016 at 9:22 AM, bethy said:

I'm a foster parent and have had some training on what trauma does to children. While my experience is with younger children, I see Claire and Alex responding in somewhat typical ways to how kids often respond to trauma. Some kids go for the "I'm a good kid; I'm making good grades and choices, please accept me and love me." Other kids go the "Screw you, you're never going to love or accept me anyway, so I'll do what I want" route. Also, kids who have experienced trauma often present much younger than they are because their brains haven't had the opportunity to grow and mature - they're in total survival mode - so it's completely understandable to me that Claire's behavior is immature, even as a late-teen kid.

 

Of course, those are incredibly BROAD generalizations, but I found the girls' reactions to their life with Jody really interesting from that perspective.

I was coming here to say this. My son is adopted and, though it was not through foster care we did a lot of research and training. Claire and Alex both read as fairly authentic kids who have suffered from trauma. I think it is even more accurate because Claire and Alex have very different types of trauma that make their trauma responses fairly believable. 

Claire was in the system. She was bounced from foster home to foster home. You can definitely see both in her acting choices and her dialogue that there is a healthy dose of: don't get too attached or feel too much because this is all temporary. Her difficulty fitting in with her family and at school make total sense against that backdrop. It is a self-defense mechanism. I thought the lovely moment where she realized that Alex actually did care for her was amazing. I also thought there was a great character moment when Dean was lecturing her on Jody. I would add that her hypervigilance was also really on point for a kid who has suffered trauma. It is a symptom of PTSD and read as being very believable. I loved that Jodi backed into a way to help her work through her fears by teaching her how to investigate rather than trying to change her. I do think she could probably use some therapy as well, but then again it would be hard to find someone who can help her with her more esoteric trauma. 

Alex was in an abusive home, but had relative stability within that home. In addition to being a believable response for both girls to try and prove her worth, her longing for a normal life and her attempts to separate herself from the trauma of her past were really good and authentic choices for her character as well. 

Honestly, I was surprised at how well thought out both characters were. I thought they gave both actresses a lot of really great material to work with and I liked the choices both made.

On 2/4/2016 at 12:56 PM, rue721 said:

Alex and Jodi were likeable as always. Claire was pretty likeable, too, imo. She seemed like she was a regular girl "going through something," and was pretty self-aware. For her sake, I was happy that Cas wasn't around. Nobody wants a monster wearing a meatsuit just like their dead father's walking around trying to give them parental advice, lol.

. . . 

Also, I liked the parallels of Alex:Sam and Claire:Dean -- they were handled with a pretty light touch, too, and avoided seeming contrived, or redundant, or silly, or melodramatic because of it (imo). Nice job, writers!

Oh man, agree on the Castiel stuff. That poor girl has already suffered enough trauma for multiple lifetimes. She doesn't need Luctiel in her life. Castiel is hard enough on her.

I agree. This is one of the great things about recurring characters. You can give them a lot more depth and they don't just feel so clunky. I loved the parallels in this episode and particularly loved that they weren't overbearing. There was a much softer touch here than we typically get from the show.

On 2/5/2016 at 9:05 AM, DittyDotDot said:

They did manage to get a chuckle out of me when Jodi said, "If we can't talk about it, we shouldn't be doing it. Right?" Gotta love Jodi!

 

Stealing the hell out of that when we hit teenagerhood in my house.

On 2/5/2016 at 12:04 PM, catrox14 said:

Hey, all.

 

I made a new topic that I thought might be fun and possibly eventually useful for discussing minutia of lore and such on the show. If it's not something anyone is interested in, I'll have a mod delete it.

 

http://forums.previously.tv/topic/38238-what-in-which-we-attempt-to-address-the-wtfery-of-spn-lore-and-whatnot/#entry1931829

Oh man. I am going to have so much reading to do once I catch up.

 

I loved loved this. I can't believe we got two weeks in a row with robust, interesting female characters who survived the final credits. 

I understand that this was a backdoor pilot and I actually thought it worked really well. It wasn't clunky, and I really loved what they did with it. I wish it had gotten picked up. I am assuming it is dead dead? 

I don't think I can improve upon a lot of the commentary here. I loved the dinner scene. I loved Dean's protective Dad glare and both guys' approach with the girls. It was sweet without being cloying and it just really worked.

Also, Sam's facial expressions in this episode were freaking hilarious. I had to replay his response to the asbestos. Tippi got a great screenshot of it, I see. 

As much as I have complained about the storyline episodes, I have found the one offs so far this season to be pretty damn enjoyable and this one was no exception. 

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13 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Who is Tippi?

Sorry. Tippi Blevins/TippiTV. She recapped for TWoP, then did some on Tumblr and then I think did recaps for PTV? She definitely used to post on here and may still post. I may have made that up. Anyway, her recap of this episode caught it. 

https://tippitv.tumblr.com/post/139019373327/tippitv-supernatural-recap-11-12-dont-you

 

I have almost burned through her recaps, which makes me sad. It looks like the ones on PTV haven't been archived by Primetimer (unless I am missing them).

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38 minutes ago, The Companion said:

I don't understand the Claire hatred either, but I suspect part of it is that she really does feel like a teenage girl and, having been one myself, teenage girls are difficult. The hormones. The constant struggle to be seen and respected because you think you are so old and you don't want to be treated like a kid, which wars with the fact that you don't have much life experience under your belt and are still developing. It's tough. Add to it that she has suffered from a lot of trauma and the character is complex.

I agree.  I like Claire.  She's realistic.  I also like Alex.  And I liked their sister/not sister relationship.  

 

40 minutes ago, The Companion said:

understand that this was a backdoor pilot and I actually thought it worked really well. It wasn't clunky, and I really loved what they did with it. I wish it had gotten picked up. I am assuming it is dead dead? 

Was it?  I didn't hear about it being one at the time, but I don't always pay attention to media.

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4 minutes ago, Katy M said:

 

Was it?  I didn't hear about it being one at the time, but I don't always pay attention to media.

Per my very informed google search with one eye closed lest I get spoiled, there was a spinoff based on these characters (I stand corrected that it was actually a later episode, so sorry about the confusion), but it got discarded in favor of The Originals. 

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23 minutes ago, The Companion said:

Per my very informed google search with one eye closed lest I get spoiled, there was a spinoff based on these characters (I stand corrected that it was actually a later episode, so sorry about the confusion), but it got discarded in favor of The Originals. 

Much later, and it was discarded because it was, largely, crap.

The problem, for me, is that they make hunting out to be this great adventure, that anyone, including teenage girls with an attitude and good hair can do and immediately be great at. Claire is and will be the personification of that.

Spoiler

I 100% would've watched a Jody/Donna spinoff, but the CW couldn't have that.

 

40 minutes ago, The Companion said:

Sorry. Tippi Blevins/TippiTV. She recapped for TWoP, then did some on Tumblr and then I think did recaps for PTV? She definitely used to post on here and may still post. I may have made that up. Anyway, her recap of this episode caught it. 

https://tippitv.tumblr.com/post/139019373327/tippitv-supernatural-recap-11-12-dont-you

 

I have almost burned through her recaps, which makes me sad. It looks like the ones on PTV haven't been archived by Primetimer (unless I am missing them).

Ah okay, I was looking through this thread for a screen cap and got confused. Thanks for clearing it up!

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