Skyler White

[Bryce Lynch]

I don't think Skyler can be held responsible for everything Walt did after "Crawl Space" when he found that she had given all the money to Ted. 

 

First, I seriously doubt, Walt would have just retired with whatever was left over after paying the vacuum cleaner guy to get new identities for the entire family.   He would have been back cooking somehow, somewhere.

 

Second, Walt could have taken the $5 million buyout from Declan, retired and his family would have had 7 times more than the original amount he said the needed.  That was probably the single most purely immoral choice that he made, when he really had a choice.  Most of his other bad acts were either in pure self defense or to protect himself or loved ones from capture, death or financial ruin.  That choice was made based upon pure greed and ego rather than any sort of justifiable motive.

 

I often wondered if the buyout had been $4 million or $6 million rather than the $5 million that mirrored the $5,000 he sold his share of Grey Matter and his family's birthright for, would Walt have accepted it, retired and lived happily ever after (until he died of cancer).   

The reason I really started to hate Skyler was that she told Walt she was throwing him out, right after his surgery, and initially indicated that is was merely because of the 2nd cellphone.  That made me hate her.  If she had gone through all the rest of the evidence she had against him BEFORE saying she was kicking him out, I probably wouldn't have hated her as much, but by the time she did it was too late. :)  I wonder if the writers did that intentionally or not. 

[DangerousMinds]

Whatever else that 2nd cellphone may have meant, it equalled LIES, pure and simple. And she was tired of being married to someone that lied over and over again.

Edited January 15, 2015 by DangerousMinds

[ZaldamoWilder]

I just caught an all season marathon on A&E and am up to season four.  But I came in here because I KNEW you guys would be on it.   Squeeeee!!!    I'm not through so I won't go back to read the last 30 and forgive me if it's already contained here but I want so badly to say this out loud:

 

"somebody has to protect this family from the man that protects this family"

 

Er. Mah. Gerd.  

 

eta:  for is not a number.  lawd.

Edited January 20, 2015 by ZaldamoWilder

[Bryce Lynch]

Whatever else that 2nd cellphone may have meant, it equalled LIES, pure and simple. And she was tired of being married to someone that lied over and over again.

Oh, I get that.  My point was that when the audience first finds out that she is tossing Walt out, right after the surgery, it is, as far as we know, based only upon a possible 2nd cellphone.  As she goes on in the next couple of minutes, listing all the other lies and inconsistencies she uncovered, her case was much stronger, but I turned against her before I heard all that.

 

Also, I thought she was rather arrogant and presumptuous in thinking she could kick Walt out of "her house" and bar him from seeing his children, without either his consent or a court order.  I'm guessing it is because she pushed Walt around during their entire marriage and couldn't imagine that he would push back.  I loved the scene when she called the police, Junior takes Dad's side, while Walt makes him a grilled cheese sandwich and feeds Holly, and she looks like lunatic in front of the police. 

[Bryce Lynch]

I just caught an all season marathon on A&E and am up to season four.  But I came in here because I KNEW you guys would be on it.   Squeeeee!!!    I'm not through so I won't go back to read the last 30 and forgive me if it's already contained here but I want so badly to say this out loud:

 

"somebody has to protect this family from the man that protects this family"

 

Er. Mah. Gerd.  

 

eta:  for is not a number.  lawd.

That was a great quote, but I think Skyler was wrong in that context.  If their "story" was that Walt won enough money gambling to pay all his medical bills, Hank's physical therapy bills  and buy a car wash, and Saul had gotten his casino friends to supply phony W-2G forms to report the income to the IRS, as promised, why couldn't Walt afford to spoil his son with a new Challenger?  It cost only about 1/30th as much as the car wash. 

 

With all that (falsely) documented gambling cash, why would she have to ask for extensions on utility bills and be afraid to be caught with an expensive bottle of wine and so on?  She was truly an idiot when it came to money laundering and understanding what would and would not get them on the IRS radar.  No wonder she was reading the Wikipedia article on money laundering before meeting with Saul to tell him how to do it "the right way". 

[ZaldamoWilder]

That was a great quote, but I think Skyler was wrong in that context.  If their "story" was that Walt won enough money gambling to pay all his medical bills, Hank's physical therapy bills  and buy a car wash, and Saul had gotten his casino friends to supply phony W-2G forms to report the income to the IRS, as promised, why couldn't Walt afford to spoil his son with a new Challenger?  It cost only about 1/30th as much as the car wash. 

 

With all that (falsely) documented gambling cash, why would she have to ask for extensions on utility bills and be afraid to be caught with an expensive bottle of wine and so on?  She was truly an idiot when it came to money laundering and understanding what would and would not get them on the IRS radar.  No wonder she was reading the Wikipedia article on money laundering before meeting with Saul to tell him how to do it "the right way". 

 

Because a brand new Challenger base model is about 30 grand.  If I'm not mistaken what he got the kid was a model called Hellcat, that's a hemi engine Challenger on steroids (sorry, I'm kind of a car girl lol).  Believe it or not a new Hellcat is upwards of 50 grand.  But let's put aside the cost for a second, what she was saying to him was that the Challenger is hella flashier than their lifestyle.  She drives a thing with faux wood panelling on the side ffs and he drives, what a Saturn?  However much money you make it might look inconsistent with your standard of living for your 17 year old to be driving a car that's worth more than the both of yours put together.  By contrast a used pt cruiser tops out around 13 grand.  In this instance I think her concern isn't so much about the IRS per se as it is drawing unwanted attention from anywhere. Like Hank or nosey ass Marie.   I felt the same way she did about the wine.  I mean, granted yeah she's uber paranoid about it, but I thought what she was trying to get across to him is people get stung by their carelessness.   This is also coinciding with that messiness at Beneke Industries, so if Ted's auditors start digging into their shit, all they needed was an auditor as eagle eyed as she.  No Bueno. lol.

[Bryce Lynch]

Because a brand new Challenger base model is about 30 grand. If I'm not mistaken what he got the kid was a model called Hellcat, that's a hemi engine Challenger on steroids (sorry, I'm kind of a car girl lol). Believe it or not a new Hellcat is upwards of 50 grand. But let's put aside the cost for a second, what she was saying to him was that the Challenger is hella flashier than their lifestyle. She drives a thing with faux wood panelling on the side ffs and he drives, what a Saturn? However much money you make it might look inconsistent with your standard of living for your 17 year old to be driving a car that's worth more than the both of yours put together. By contrast a used pt cruiser tops out around 13 grand. In this instance I think her concern isn't so much about the IRS per se as it is drawing unwanted attention from anywhere. Like Hank or nosey ass Marie. I felt the same way she did about the wine. I mean, granted yeah she's uber paranoid about it, but I thought what she was trying to get across to him is people get stung by their carelessness. This is also coinciding with that messiness at Beneke Industries, so if Ted's auditors start digging into their shit, all they needed was an auditor as eagle eyed as she. No Bueno. lol.

I get what you are saying. My point is that if she was convinced the gambling story would fool everyone (and it seems it did) why couldn't they simply say they had enough for the car as well. When Walt got the 2nd muscle car for Jr. and one for himself, Hank made a comment, but he totally bought Walt's story about the "attractive lease rates". :)

By far the most suspicious purchase they made was the car wash. If you can afford an $800K car wash you can also afford $50K for a car. Of course $80 million in cash in a storage locker is even more suspicious. I bet Dave Hester has dreams about that. :)

Skyler's quote would have made more sense in terms of her sending the kids to Hank and Marie's or kicking Walt out.

Have an A1 day! :)

[ZaldamoWilder]

Lol!  oh dammit I knew I should've gotten outta here before it got too late lol!  I am so not caught up yet.  Second muscle car?  Bye ya'll!! lol!

 

That's true though 800K business/50K car, good point. 

[Ailianna]

But the car wash is also designed to make money. A 17 year old with a $50 grand sports car is just a black hole of money waiting to happen. Forget the ludicrous insurance rate--he's going to get speeding tickets, too many other high school kids who suddenly want to party in his car, and so on, even if he manages not to crash the thing into something. The blank dollar amounts don't actually matter as much as the consequences of each purchase.

[Bryce Lynch]

But the car wash is also designed to make money. A 17 year old with a $50 grand sports car is just a black hole of money waiting to happen. Forget the ludicrous insurance rate--he's going to get speeding tickets, too many other high school kids who suddenly want to party in his car, and so on, even if he manages not to crash the thing into something. The blank dollar amounts don't actually matter as much as the consequences of each purchase.

The nature of the purchases matter to the purchasers, but in terms of seeming feasible to nosy family members and the authorities the amounts of the purchases and source of funds are what matter.

 

The IRS isn't going to say, "Walt and Skyler are indulgent, spendthrift parents for buying Jr. a Challenger, let's audit them!"  They are going to say, "Where did the get the money to pay for the Challenger and more importantly the $800,000 car wash?"  If they have a reasonable explanation, which they did (Walt's gambling winnings backed up by fraudulent, but authentic looking W-2Gs from Saul's casino buddies) they will be fine.  If not, there could be an audit or criminal investigation into the source of the funds.  There is no doubt that the $800K investment and the hundreds of thousands of Walt and Hank's medical bills paid would be FAR more suspicious than the car. 

 

The IRS is not thinking, "Wise investment, no problem, extravagant spending..red flag."  They are thinking, "Where did the money come from and were taxes paid on it?"

 

LOTS of people drive cars they really can't afford, so I don't think the Challenger would raise any red flags with the IRS.  They have hundreds or millions of taxpayers to keep tabs on.  They don't have the resources to look at everyone who overspends on a car.  Plus, I assume the car would be in Walt's name, not Junior's so on paper it would seem even less unusual. 

[DangerousMinds]

She was worried about public scrutiny as well as the IRS.

[rollerblade]

I nominate "What the hell is a MILF?" for Skyler's title... from when she first saw Jesse's myshout webpage. I missed the show's comic moments that was absent in latter seasons.

[ByTor]

But the car wash is also designed to make money. A 17 year old with a $50 grand sports car is just a black hole of money waiting to happen. Forget the ludicrous insurance rate--he's going to get speeding tickets, too many other high school kids who suddenly want to party in his car, and so on, even if he manages not to crash the thing into something. The blank dollar amounts don't actually matter as much as the consequences of each purchase.

But he promised to go the speed limit...BELOW the speed limit :)

[ZaldamoWilder]

LMAO!!   17....promises....speed limit..   it's all too much, I can't take it LOL!!

[JudyObscure]

Someone lent me the set a week ago and I'm up to the 4th season already. I wanted to wait until I was done to voice my opinion of Skyler but I just can't.

I hate her more than any woman in anything I've ever watched. I'm not saying she's the worst person, just that I hate her the most. She is everything I hate in a marriage, be it the husband or the wife. She is controlling, manipulative and totally selfish. I believed Walt when he said, while begging not to have to go through chemo, that in their entire marriage he had never had his way about anything. We see it all through the show. She uses whatever it takes to get her way whether it's the silent treatment, bringing something up as a done deal in front of their son when she knows Walt can't argue, calling her sister and brother-in-law to side with her, going behind his back like she did at the rich couples party.

Walt ended up doing the chemo because she insisted. They both thought it was the last year of his life but it still had to be her way. He ended up being seen as a charity case, because she told a whole crowd of people that she just simply had to thank their benefactors who had paid for everything. She just had to do that, even though they weren't at the party and she knew it would completely humiliate Walt.

She seems to love her children but we've seen just how conditional her love is, I wouldn't advise them to cross her when they get older. When her sister seemed to be having mental problems with kleptomania, Skyler cut her off, unforgiven, for weeks and then insisted on a formal apology. Because the silent treatment isn't enough, there must be groveling to her highness. When Walt started acting suspicious, going off alone, and having that second cell phone, she never once thought that maybe knowing you're going to die in a few months might make a person act a little odd. She didn't care about his feelings at all, she wasn't in total control anymore and it that was the absolute worst thing.

She prompts Walt to say thank you as if he was four. She nags; In one scene Walt's watching the news when she calls him to dinner, he stands up and says okay so she knows he heard and that would be enough for me and most wives, but he hesitates for one second while he watches the end of news segment. Skyler can't stand it, she says, "Walt! Come on!" he hesitates another second and gets a really harsh "Walt!" He's not a man she loves, he's a dog she has trained and she will not tolerate anything but total, instant obedience.

She uses passive aggressive tricks to punish him. The silent treatment is a favorite. She was going days without speaking in the first season at a time when she didn't know what was going on but thought she and her husband only had a few months left.

She told Marie and Hank that she would pay their hospital bills without asking Walt and then, immediately told Walt that she knew he had something to do with Hank getting shot so she was still not speaking. This is a hypocrite who doesn't hesitate to use Walt's ill-gotten gains to make herself look good but won't cut an inch of slack to the dying husband who earned it for her. We know Walt was partly responsible for Hank getting shot, but she had no evidence at all, yet she never, ever gave Walt the benefit of the doubt, just racked him up as guilty without any proof -- of that, of having an affair, of using marijuana --and wouldn't that have been forgivable in a man with cancer? Not in Skyler's judgmental world.

She couldn't give her husband one ounce of forgiveness or understanding for making meth to support his family but she could give Ted almost instant forgiveness for embezzling funds from the business.

The car wash thing was just her way of making herself in charge again. The lazar ball place would have been fine, all the story they needed was that his lawyer knew they needed an investment for tax purposes and so he hooked him up with the lazar guy. People own all sorts of businesses that don't connect with their personal interests. Saul and Walt were right that it would have been safer for her to stay away from the business but she had to be in control.

She is deliberately cruel. The I. F. T. episode shows just how much she enjoys hurting people.

She's a humorless, arrogant, manipulative, spoiled, control freak who had made Walt her puppet for 16 years, no wonder he went nuts when he realized his life was going to end. I love that Saul saw her for what she was almost immediately.

Edited November 10, 2015 by JudyObscure

[ByTor]

JudyObscure, you have perfectly described all the reasons I hated Skyler.  From the time she ordered Jesse to stop selling Walt marijuana, I knew she was going to be an annoying shrew.

[JudyObscure]

I just watched, Season 4, Episode 3 and hated her just that little bit more (I am so sorry that I'm years late watching this.) It's the one where she just has to buy the car wash that belongs to the bushy eyebrow man. He doesn't want to sell, he worked all his life to build that business, and there are plenty of other car washes to buy, but Skyler must resort to shady, lying tactics to get him to sell because he was a tiny bit rude to her. Everything she does is deliberately vindictive.

Then, while she and Walt are celebrating the buy, she has to burst his bubble and lecture him about the cost of the champagne. Walt is not allowed to be happy!

I just read that Anna Gunn wrote a big editorial to the "haters" about how the people who don't like Skyler are all misogynists who don't like "strong women." She does a real disservice to feminism if she thinks "strong woman" is defined as "total bitch." I had actually admired Anna Gunn's acting, but now, not so much if she thinks she made this character sympathetic.

[ByTor]

I just read that Anna Gunn wrote a big editorial to the "haters" about how the people who don't like Skyler are all misogynists who don't like "strong women." She does a real disservice to feminism if she thinks "strong woman" is defined as "total bitch." I had actually admired Anna Gunn's acting, but now, not so much if she thinks she made this character sympathetic.

Let me start by saying I love to see new viewers! I love the perspective of a first-timer :)

I also hate when people equate "huge bitch" with "strong woman," makes me stabby. I'm not sure you know this, though, but Anna Gunn herself was getting death threats from some people who hated Skyler. I mentioned it before on this thread, but do these people think Anna is such a poor actress that she showed up and played herself?

[Bryce Lynch]

I just watched, Season 4, Episode 3 and hated her just that little bit more (I am so sorry that I'm years late watching this.) It's the one where she just has to buy the car wash that belongs to the bushy eyebrow man. He doesn't want to sell, he worked all his life to build that business, and there are plenty of other car washes to buy, but Skyler must resort to shady, lying tactics to get him to sell because he was a tiny bit rude to her. Everything she does is deliberately vindictive.

Then, while she and Walt are celebrating the buy, she has to burst his bubble and lecture him about the cost of the champagne. Walt is not allowed to be happy!

I just read that Anna Gunn wrote a big editorial to the "haters" about how the people who don't like Skyler are all misogynists who don't like "strong women." She does a real disservice to feminism if she thinks "strong woman" is defined as "total bitch." I had actually admired Anna Gunn's acting, but now, not so much if she thinks she made this character sympathetic.

What she did to Bogdan was one of the few things I liked about Skyler. :)

Bogdan treated Walt horribly and deserved what happened to him. F him and F his eyebrows! :)

I also thought Skyler's scheme was uncharacteristically brilliant.

That said you are probably right that she was obsessed with the car wash because Bogdan was rude to her, not because of how he treated Walt.

Edited November 10, 2015 by Bryce Lynch

[JudyObscure]

Anna Gunn herself was getting death threats from some people who hated Skyler. I mentioned it before on this thread, but do these people think Anna is such a poor actress that she showed up and played herself?

People really are nuts. It reminds me of the old ladies who used to think soap characters were real. Sorry, I didn't see your mention of it. I skimmed this thread very lightly for fear of being spoiled. Give me a few more days of bingeing and I'll be able to come here and read everything you and Bryce have said.:)

[ByTor]

People really are nuts. It reminds me of the old ladies who used to think soap characters were real. Sorry, I didn't see your mention of it. I skimmed this thread very lightly for fear of being spoiled. Give me a few more days of bingeing and I'll be able to come here and read everything you and Bryce have said.:)

Bryce has some great perspective.  Me...eh not so much :)  I mentioned that I said the thing before on the board so I didn't sound repetitive.  I bitched about something on the Parenthood board twice without me remembering I posted the same thing twice, quite embarrassing!

[millennium]

I'm rewatching right now, and until this point, I never truly appreciated how fucking cruel Walt is to Skyler.   I'm at the point in Season 3 right now where Walt breaks into the house and unilaterally decides he's moving back in, because he's that sure Skyler won't risk telling the police about his meth cooking.

Walt is so damnably smug, so sickeningly selfish, that it makes my skin crawl.   I knew he was a bad person the first time around but I was so caught up in the plot that I never took the time to focus on nuances, like how he shamelessly manipulates his handicapped son, using him as a passive-aggressive weapon against Skyler, and clearly derives pleasure from Skyler's apparent helplessness.

We see the same egocentric hatefulness in Walt's treatment of Jesse, which, IMO, is even worse than his treatment of Skyler.   In scene after scene, he cruelly berates Jesse for no other reason than it makes him feel powerful.  

Of course, Walt tries to package his deplorable behavior as "caring."   "My family means everything to me," he says softly to Skyler, even as he treats his wife and son like marionettes.   He withholds Jesse's money not out of concern for his well being, but to exert control over him -- as he told Gus Fring, Jesse's best quality was "he does what I tell him."  

I think only misogyny and whatever word means "dislike of, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against wives" can account for viewers who regard Skyler White as "Walt's bitch wife." 

[Nozycat]

I think Walt is just awful and never bought his I am doing this for my family from the beginning.  I saw him instantly seduced by the money and the opportunity to be a 'hero'.  To me his awfulness doesn't cancel out Skylar's awfulness.  I dislike them equally.

[millennium]

20 hours ago, Nozycat said:

I think Walt is just awful and never bought his I am doing this for my family from the beginning.  I saw him instantly seduced by the money and the opportunity to be a 'hero'.  To me his awfulness doesn't cancel out Skylar's awfulness.  I dislike them equally.

 

How is Skyler awful?   In her unflagging support of her husband during his cancer?   In her willingness to put aside her pride to accept charitable contributions from anyone willing to help?   In her desperate concern for her children's safety?  

As time goes on, Skyler's decisions invite greater scrutiny but by then she has been contaminated by her husband.   Walt is a walking cancer.   Physically and metaphorically.    His evil spreads to healthy lives around him, infects them and destroys them.   Jesse said it perfectly in Season 3, from his hospital bed:

Cancer has no conscience.   It corrupts healthy cells around it, without mercy or remorse.

Skyler, the innocent, humble and faithful wife selling chotchkies on eBay when she wasn't dreaming of writing short stories, raising a handicapped son and trying to protect him from a hurtful world, was metastasized by Walt's thirst for power.  

How people get "bitch" out of that mystifies me.

Edited May 29, 2016 by millennium

[Nozycat]

I am not going to repeat everything that has already been said and will agree to disagree and that we see Skyler very differently.

Edited May 29, 2016 by Nozycat

[ByTor]

With how manipulative, passive-aggressive, arrogant, and just plain old bossy Skylar has been shown, I can't exactly say I blame Walt for being smug when he has one over on her.  Things I hated about Skylar: Her day after day of going "out" when she wanted to pay Walt back for his doing the same.  Most adults would confront their partner over that, not do a childish "there, how does it feel, neener neener" At Elliot's birthday party, she told Elliot about Walt's cancer even though he specifically said he did not want him (or Gretchen for that matter) to know...and then when they were waiting for the valet and he confronts her, since she can't deny she was wrong, she uses her browbeating "don't you speak to me that way" crap. Her refusal take Marie's calls until she admits to shoplifting, and then her constant demands of "APOLOGIZE!!!"  She didn't give a shit about what might have been going on with her sister, it has to be all about the great almighty Skylar. When she informed Walt he was getting kicked out of the house only after him asking why her bags were packed.  It wasn't the fact she was kicking him out, it was how she handled it.  She couldn't just tell him to get out and list his litany of lies (which I do have to admit was pretty damn awesome), she had to make sure to do it as drama queeny as possible. Her treatment of Ted.  She was using him to piss off Walt enough so he'd leave her, but poor Ted was dumb enough to have real feelings for her. She smoked while pregnant with Holly, and then had the gall to say "don't go there" when confronted about it. The fake suicide attempt in the pool to get the kids with Hank & Marie. I agree with you, @Nozycat, about "cancellation of awfulness."  Someone can "but Walt ___" till the cows come home, it doesn't make Skylar a nice person.  But I guess I'm just a misogynist and hate my own sex, there's no real reason to dislike Skylar White.

Edited May 31, 2016 by ByTor

[millennium]

On 5/31/2016 at 1:13 PM, ByTor said:

 Things I hated about Skylar: Her day after day of going "out" when she wanted to pay Walt back for his doing the same.  Most adults would confront their partner over that, not do a childish "there, how does it feel, neener neener"

 

Seems to me her strategy, while passive-aggressive, was actually more effective than if she had confronted him directly.    Walter White was a natural-born liar.   If she had confronted him, he would have lied his way out of it to make her look like the villain.    Sometimes the only way to win a fight is to not fight in the first place.

"Confront their partner" -- we're not talking about Mr. and Mrs. Average American couple.   By the time Skyler gave Walt the silent treatment, he had already killed a man and dissolved his body in acid.   He was manufacturing a substance that was routinely destroying lives.   All the usual couples therapy techniques go out the window when one partner is a mass murderer, which, in the end, Walter White turned out to be.

Quote

At Elliot's birthday party, she told Elliot about Walt's cancer even though he specifically said he did not want him (or Gretchen for that matter) to know...and then when they were waiting for the valet and he confronts her, since she can't deny she was wrong, she uses her browbeating "don't you speak to me that way" crap.

She was the mother of a child with cerebral palsy, and expecting another baby within mere months.   Skyler did what she felt was necessary to increase Walt's chances of survival and to ensure that her family would have a future and not face financial ruin due to Walt's illness, even if it meant a blow to Walt's ego.   Go ahead, stone her.

Quote

Her refusal take Marie's calls until she admits to shoplifting, and then her constant demands of "APOLOGIZE!!!"  She didn't give a shit about what might have been going on with her sister, it has to be all about the great almighty Skylar.

Skyler was nearly arrested due to Marie's shoplifting.   She was already dealing with one liar in her life -- her husband Walt -- now suddenly she discovers her closest friend, her sister, is also a liar and engaging in activities that placed Skyler and unborn Holly at risk.    She had every right to be pissed.   Life isn't one big encounter group.   When people screw you over, you get angry.   Maybe if Marie had come clean about her kleptomania Skyler would have shown sympathy.   But Marie compounded it by making it seem Skyler was the one with the problem.   So on top of lying and nearly getting Skyler arrested, Marie treated Skyler as if she was stupid, adding insult to injury.  

Quote

When she informed Walt he was getting kicked out of the house only after him asking why her bags were packed.  It wasn't the fact she was kicking him out, it was how she handled it.  She couldn't just tell him to get out and list his litany of lies (which I do have to admit was pretty damn awesome), she had to make sure to do it as drama queeny as possible.

She's married to a pathological liar, a man with enough blood on his hands to fill that swimming pool out back, who has blatantly lied to and deceived his loved ones for months,  and you're giving HER grief for being a drama queen?  Really?

Quote

Her treatment of Ted.  She was using him to piss off Walt enough so he'd leave her, but poor Ted was dumb enough to have real feelings for her.

Ted had no problem trying to use Skyler when he made the pass at her at the Christmas party.   This time, Skyler turned the tables on him.   So what?   She didn't do it out of malice or narcissism.   She did it because Walt was systematically destroying the framework of her life and she felt powerless to stop him.   "IFT" was her idea of striking back at Walt, to devastate him the way he had laid waste to her life.   As for Ted's feelings, why should we feel bad for a man who thought it was just peachy to screw another man's wife after she just had his baby?   Yeah, poor Ted.

Quote

She smoked while pregnant with Holly, and then had the gall to say "don't go there" when confronted about it.

Because it seems like the tiniest, most venial sin in the context of all the horror that was happening at the time.   Sure, there's a very outside chance that a few cigarettes might have harmed Holly.  (My mother and the mothers of almost everyone I know smoked through their pregnancies and we all turned out okay, relatively speaking.)  But what about all the lives, born and unborn, that Walter White destroyed with his meth alone, never mind the children who died as either a direct (Drew Sharpe) or indirect result (the little girl who owned the pink, one-eyed bear) of his activities?    Skyler was completely justified in saying "Don't go there."

Quote

The fake suicide attempt in the pool to get the kids with Hank & Marie.

I can't fault any mother who goes to extremes to ensure the health and safety of her children.  Whatever it takes.   Giving Ted $600K was also very questionable, but again, she did it to ensure her family's survival.

I rarely see any selfishness in Skyler's actions, or should I say reactions because that's what Skyler does.   Even when she got caught up in the business with Walt, helping him to launder the money, I think she was playing a long game in which she deluded herself into believing she could somehow extricate Walt from the clutches of the meth business and return to a normal life.   Remember when the car wash appeared to be turning a profit?  The first thing she did was call Walt and tell him to start thinking about an "exit strategy."   That foolish wishful thinking was shattered after Walt blew up Gus Fring.   That's when Skyler finally broke and started to come apart.

Edited June 5, 2016 by millennium

[Adiba]

On May 29, 2016 at 5:29 PM, millennium said:

 

How is Skyler awful?   In her unflagging support of her husband during his cancer?   In her willingness to put aside her pride to accept charitable contributions from anyone willing to help?   In her desperate concern for her children's safety?  

As time goes on, Skyler's decisions invite greater scrutiny but by then she has been contaminated by her husband.   Walt is a walking cancer.   Physically and metaphorically.    His evil spreads to healthy lives around him, infects them and destroys them.   Jesse said it perfectly in Season 3, from his hospital bed:

 

Cancer has no conscience.   It corrupts healthy cells around it, without mercy or remorse.

Skyler, the innocent, humble and faithful wife selling chotchkies on eBay when she wasn't dreaming of writing short stories, raising a handicapped son and trying to protect him from a hurtful world, was metastasized by Walt's thirst for power.  

How people get "bitch" out of that mystifies me.

 

On May 29, 2016 at 5:29 PM, millennium said:

 

How is Skyler awful?   In her unflagging support of her husband during his cancer?   In her willingness to put aside her pride to accept charitable contributions from anyone willing to help?   In her desperate concern for her children's safety?  

As time goes on, Skyler's decisions invite greater scrutiny but by then she has been contaminated by her husband.   Walt is a walking cancer.   Physically and metaphorically.    His evil spreads to healthy lives around him, infects them and destroys them.   Jesse said it perfectly in Season 3, from his hospital bed:

 

Cancer has no conscience.   It corrupts healthy cells around it, without mercy or remorse.

Skyler, the innocent, humble and faithful wife selling chotchkies on eBay when she wasn't dreaming of writing short stories, raising a handicapped son and trying to protect him from a hurtful world, was metastasized by Walt's thirst for power.  

How people get "bitch" out of that mystifies me.

I love that you equated Walt with cancer. Cancer not not destroys healthy cells around it, it often destroys the body that is its host. Walt destroyed lives around him while ultimately destroying himself.

Skyler is sort of an enigma to me. Sometimes I could completely understand her actions/motives. Other times I would wonder what the hell she was thinking, and still other times I would be angry or annoyed with her.

[ByTor]

@Adiba...what you described in your last paragraph explains exactly why I hated Skyler but at the same time loved her characterization and wouldn't have wanted her any different.

[DangerousMinds]

On 5/31/2016 at 1:13 PM, ByTor said:

With how manipulative, passive-aggressive, arrogant, and just plain old bossy Skylar has been shown, I can't exactly say I blame Walt for being smug when he has one over on her.  Things I hated about Skylar: Her day after day of going "out" when she wanted to pay Walt back for his doing the same.  Most adults would confront their partner over that, not do a childish "there, how does it feel, neener neener" At Elliot's birthday party, she told Elliot about Walt's cancer even though he specifically said he did not want him (or Gretchen for that matter) to know...and then when they were waiting for the valet and he confronts her, since she can't deny she was wrong, she uses her browbeating "don't you speak to me that way" crap. Her refusal take Marie's calls until she admits to shoplifting, and then her constant demands of "APOLOGIZE!!!"  She didn't give a shit about what might have been going on with her sister, it has to be all about the great almighty Skylar. When she informed Walt he was getting kicked out of the house only after him asking why her bags were packed.  It wasn't the fact she was kicking him out, it was how she handled it.  She couldn't just tell him to get out and list his litany of lies (which I do have to admit was pretty damn awesome), she had to make sure to do it as drama queeny as possible. Her treatment of Ted.  She was using him to piss off Walt enough so he'd leave her, but poor Ted was dumb enough to have real feelings for her. She smoked while pregnant with Holly, and then had the gall to say "don't go there" when confronted about it. The fake suicide attempt in the pool to get the kids with Hank & Marie. I agree with you, @Nozycat, about "cancellation of awfulness."  Someone can "but Walt ___" till the cows come home, it doesn't make Skylar a nice person.  But I guess I'm just a misogynist and hate my own sex, there's no real reason to dislike Skylar White.

I didn't see any of these things as terribly awful, given the situation Walt put her and the kids in. She learned to play the game from Walt.

[DangerousMinds]

On 6/5/2016 at 3:37 AM, millennium said:

Seems to me her strategy, while passive-aggressive, was actually more effective than if she had confronted him directly.    Walter White was a natural-born liar.   If she had confronted him, he would have lied his way out of it to make her look like the villain.    Sometimes the only way to win a fight is to not fight in the first place.

"Confront their partner" -- we're not talking about Mr. and Mrs. Average American couple.   By the time Skyler gave Walt the silent treatment, he had already killed a man and dissolved his body in acid.   He was manufacturing a substance that was routinely destroying lives.   All the usual couples therapy techniques go out the window when one partner is a mass murderer, which, in the end, Walter White turned out to be.

She was the mother of a child with cerebral palsy, and expecting another baby within mere months.   Skyler did what she felt was necessary to increase Walt's chances of survival and to ensure that her family would have a future and not face financial ruin due to Walt's illness, even if it meant a blow to Walt's ego.   Go ahead, stone her.

Skyler was nearly arrested due to Marie's shoplifting.   She was already dealing with one liar in her life -- her husband Walt -- now suddenly she discovers her closest friend, her sister, is also a liar and engaging in activities that placed Skyler and unborn Holly at risk.    She had every right to be pissed.   Life isn't one big encounter group.   When people screw you over, you get angry.   Maybe if Marie had come clean about her kleptomania Skyler would have shown sympathy.   But Marie compounded it by making it seem Skyler was the one with the problem.   So on top of lying and nearly getting Skyler arrested, Marie treated Skyler as if she was stupid, adding insult to injury.  

She's married to a pathological liar, a man with enough blood on his hands to fill that swimming pool out back, who has blatantly lied to and deceived his loved ones for months,  and you're giving HER grief for being a drama queen?  Really?

Ted had no problem trying to use Skyler when he made the pass at her at the Christmas party.   This time, Skyler turned the tables on him.   So what?   She didn't do it out of malice or narcissism.   She did it because Walt was systematically destroying the framework of her life and she felt powerless to stop him.   "IFT" was her idea of striking back at Walt, to devastate him the way he had laid waste to her life.   As for Ted's feelings, why should we feel bad for a man who thought it was just peachy to screw another man's wife after she just had his baby?   Yeah, poor Ted.

Because it seems like the tiniest, most venial sin in the context of all the horror that was happening at the time.   Sure, there's a very outside chance that a few cigarettes might have harmed Holly.  (My mother and the mothers of almost everyone I know smoked through their pregnancies and we all turned out okay, relatively speaking.)  But what about all the lives, born and unborn, that Walter White destroyed with his meth alone, never mind the children who died as either a direct (Drew Sharpe) or indirect result (the little girl who owned the pink, one-eyed bear) of his activities?    Skyler was completely justified in saying "Don't go there."

I can't fault any mother who goes to extremes to ensure the health and safety of her children.  Whatever it takes.   Giving Ted $600K was also very questionable, but again, she did it to ensure her family's survival.

I rarely see any selfishness in Skyler's actions, or should I say reactions because that's what Skyler does.   Even when she got caught up in the business with Walt, helping him to launder the money, I think she was playing a long game in which she deluded herself into believing she could somehow extricate Walt from the clutches of the meth business and return to a normal life.   Remember when the car wash appeared to be turning a profit?  The first thing she did was call Walt and tell him to start thinking about an "exit strategy."   That foolish wishful thinking was shattered after Walt blew up Gus Fring.   That's when Skyler finally broke and started to come apart.

THANK YOU!!

[ByTor]

1 hour ago, DangerousMinds said:

I didn't see any of these things as terribly awful, given the situation Walt put her and the kids in. She learned to play the game from Walt.

That's just it, though, I don't think she did.  I found her bossy, manipulative and passive-aggressive from the start...well before she figured out what Walt was doing.

[DangerousMinds]

I assume Walt always had those qualities in him, as well. At least she wasn't a murderous drug dealer. Ha.

[ByTor]

As far as I'm concerned,  Walt being worse doesn't absolve Skyler's behavior.

[guilfoyleatpp]

I think Skyler is pretty awful. I tussled with the "is she a bitch or just being strong" argument here for a bit. I'm halfway through Season 5, by the way.

Both sisters are really unpleasant in their own ways. 

I feel like they purposely wrote Skyler to be petty and demanding and not too bright, but thinks she is. The first scene, the eggs with "50" spelled out in vegetarian bacon or whatever.  That bacon is terrible for you. The sodium is so ridiculous that you might as well have a real piece of bacon. It is not a "healthy" option. If you're not eating meat for moral reasons, then have some veggie bacon. But if you're trying to pretend like it's a healthier option, you don't have any fucking idea what you're doing.

So, that scene set me up to dislike her as a poseur. Pretentious. 

I found myself wondering why they couldn't write a female character who is strong, but was sublimating her strength and intelligence in service to her chosen lifestyle. Why does she have to be a passive aggressive bitch? Unlike Walt, her mistakes are amplified by 1000. Every time she makes a bold choice, it's bad.  Meanwhile, Walt and Jesse stumble into so much fortunate happenstance throughout and come out ahead. It reinforces so much the narrative of the western world.  White dudes fuck up and come out ok. Women fuck up and the entire house burns down. 

So yes, 100% the writers making her awful, but relenting every now and then to make her understandable.

[ByTor]

On 1/8/2017 at 2:52 PM, guilfoyleatpp said:

I found myself wondering why they couldn't write a female character who is strong, but was sublimating her strength and intelligence in service to her chosen lifestyle. Why does she have to be a passive aggressive bitch?

On TV "strong woman" pretty much = "passive aggressive bitch."  I know I'm comparing to a sitcom, but someone like Florida Evans from Good Times is IMO a good example of a "strong woman" TV character...she was strong for her family, did what she had to do to stay above water, and stood up to her husband without being an asshole about it.  What happened to that kind of writing?

[Uncle JUICE]

I didn't find Skyler to be a passive aggressive bitch, per se...what were her options to be "active aggressive" in her situation? By season 3's end, she knows what Walter does, but she also can't tell anyone, AND she has to maintain a job (now for appearance's sake as well as she enjoys the mutual attraction with Beneke), AND she has a newborn baby, AND she has a special needs teenage son. She is stuck, and it's only natural for her desire for retribution to manifest in passive aggressive ways (because divorcing Walt is not as easy as it sounds, even though she effectively goes through with it all the way up to the end, killing him isn't an option for her, so....). I don't think she was written in any one way other than human, I mean her behavior does seem petty at times (delighting if only momentarily in those cigarettes, fucking her boss as revenge on Walt which, again, backfires spectacularly), but in my view, what else could she have done? If anyone's a bitch about stuff it's Walt. Buying that car for Junior? What an ass. THAT was passive aggressive. He knew Skyler would make them return it, and she'd look like the bad guy, and he'd be unable to explain to Junior WHY the car had to go back. 

[DangerousMinds]

I agree, she seemed only human to me. I don't think reacting passive-aggressively is healthy, but hell yeah, I've done it far too many times in life. I'm not going to judge her for doing so in a seemingly impossible situation.

[ByTor]

1 hour ago, Uncle JUICE said:

 divorcing Walt is not as easy as it sounds,

Skyler's divorce lawyer made it out to be easy, and I like the way they showed how wrong she was, it really wasn't as easy as it sounded.

[Uncle JUICE]

Just now, ByTor said:

Skyler's divorce lawyer made it out to be easy, and I like the way they showed how wrong she was, it really wasn't as easy as it sounded.

One of the unsung characters on the show, she's like the last chance for Skyler to make the impossible but correct choice: leave Walter, or become complicit. I loved when s he'd finally had enough and told Skyler that if she just needed to talk to someone, there were tons of people far more qualified and far less expensive. 

[guilfoyleatpp]

5 hours ago, ByTor said:

 

5 hours ago, ByTor said:

Skyler's divorce lawyer made it out to be easy, and I like the way they showed how wrong she was, it really wasn't as easy as it sounded.

 

5 hours ago, Uncle JUICE said:

One of the unsung characters on the show, she's like the last chance for Skyler to make the impossible but correct choice: leave Walter, or become complicit. I loved when s he'd finally had enough and told Skyler that if she just needed to talk to someone, there were tons of people far more qualified and far less expensive. 

This part reminded me SO MUCH of the Sopranos when Carmela goes to the therapist to talk about her husband. For some reason I feel like he was a rabbi, but I don't think that's entirely right.

He told her to leave, take the children, live on the honest salary he makes. To do anything else is to become complicit.

And this is the model again of man as actor and woman as supporter. The man does it and the woman tries to figure out her role. Unlike Lady MacBeth, say. Carmela profited from Tony (and suffered greatly for it) more than Skyler did with Walt.

I put myself in Skyler's position. It's not that simple. She was right to be worried her kids were in danger and to send them away. I didn't like the way she communicated it (that's not my style), but she was backed into a corner. And she ended up being right. As viewers, we had the privilege of knowing there wasn't an immediate danger, but as the character in the situation, her fears were completely understandable.

Her sleeping with Beneke, that was fucking dumb.  And then giving him the money.  FUCKING DUMB. But again, it was written as her mistake that blew everything up and drove Walt back into the life. As a viewer, again, I found myself angry with her even though I should have been furious at Walt for not communicating adequately. But it was written to make me dislike her.

I didn't like Walt either. I didn't like any of the characters. But I still enjoyed the show.

[Uncle JUICE]

He wasn't a rabbi on The Sopranos, but he absolutely was a rabbi on something. It's almost the same scene, you're right. What's lost a little in the breakneck pace of the show itself is that One Minute (the episode in which Hank is crippled) happens quite close to the time where Walter tells Skyler the truth about his job. He told her that he wasn't in any danger, that they were safe, and then the Hank thing happens, and Skyler correctly presumes it can't be a coincidence, and starts acting the only way she can: with urgency. And yeah, giving Beneke the money was totally dumb, but the show did so much work to demonstrate why she'd go to that length, it was a fantastic payoff for the show, Walt finding out that there isn't any money to pay the cleaner. 

[DangerousMinds]

The kids were definitely in danger. She was absolutely right to react the way she did.

[Uncle JUICE]

In retrospect, she probably UNDER-reacted. She should have packed them up and disappeared. But then we have the question about what exactly she thought when she went to Four Corners in 5A (I think) and the coin lands in a different state, what it was that brought her back. 

[ByTor]

1 hour ago, Uncle JUICE said:

She should have packed them up and disappeared. 

That would have been best.  Letting them live with Hank & Marie didn't seem like the greatest choice given Hank's job (certainly less risky than living with Walt, but there's still cause for concern).

[qtpye]

On ‎6‎/‎6‎/‎2014 at 3:45 PM, ByTor said:

Skyler was one of those TV characters where I feel totally different about the character than I would if she were a real life person.  Meaning, I hated the fictional character of Skyler...no matter what horrible things Walter did, I always rooted for him just because he was married to this passive-aggressive bitch.  However, if Skyler were a real person, even with the same personality, I would completely sympathize with her.

 

On ‎6‎/‎9‎/‎2014 at 2:46 PM, Spartan Girl said:

Honestly, I never understood why people hated Skyler so much.  She might have been a passive-aggressive nag, but she was nowhere near as despicable as Walt.  I never understood why she didn't just turn him in a long time ago -- I get that it's a horrible thing to turn the father of your children over to the cops, but still...

 

I watched the first season of Breaking Bad, and as far as I could tell, Skyler was initially nothing but loving and supportive.  The stuff like the veggie bacon and the infamous hj seemed like such little things.  And how would any of you feel if your spouse was suddenly disappearing, smoking pot, and keeping his/her terminally illness away from you?  Would you guys be upset?

 

Then again, there are some characters I hate that other people absolutely adore (*cough*XanderHarris*cough*), so to each his/her own opinion.

 

On ‎6‎/‎9‎/‎2014 at 7:07 PM, Ronin Jackson said:

I didn't really get the Skyler hate either.  She was perhaps a little annoying in the early stages, but I didn't see anything that warranted the intensely vitriolic reaction of so many fans.  I think the appeal of the show for a lot of people centered around vicariously living through Walt's decision to break bad and transform himself from meek school teacher to criminal mastermind, and they viewed Skyler as an obstacle to Walt fulfilling his bad ass destiny .  But eventually Skyler breaks bad herself and becomes an accomplice, and the vitriol did not abate much.  I viewed the series as a chronicle of Walt's decision to break bad and the spiraling set of consequences from that initial decision that kept drawing him and his family deeper and deeper into crime and danger, and from that perspective Skyler was an innocent victim and empathetic figure.  

 

On ‎6‎/‎12‎/‎2014 at 8:57 PM, desperatelibrarian said:

I, for one, never hated Skyler. And I was just shocked at the amount of hate she got, as well as death threats. Like calm down, people! She's just acting!

 

I don't have any strong defenses for her, except if you can imagine being in her shoes. Like how would you feel if your husband had been building a drug empire behind your back? Then there's the uproar about Skyler cheating on Walt, yet when Walt manipulates and kills people, we're cool about it. People make bad choices when they're emotional or learn devastating news. Hell, Walt starts cooking meth after he learns he has cancer! That's so heavy that you might find yourself doing misguided things.

 

As for why Skyler didn't just left Walt, I felt she had to be there to protect her family and keep Walt clean so there won't be a lot of destruction. She knows how terrible it would be for Walt Jr and Holly to remember their dad as a drug kingpin.

 

I wouldn't say Skyler is a strong female character, but she gets a bad reputation that's totally undeserved. Anna Gunn has impressed me a couple of times in the last half of S5 with her acting. Like in Ozymandias, when Walt is saying abuse to her on the phone to make it seem like she's not involved in his crimes, and she realizes what he's doing and goes along with it. And lastly in the finale, when Walt tells her that he did everything for himself. The look on her face when he said that was great because she finally saw the man she once loved who was completely honest with her. And the way she reached for Walt but pulled back.

 

If no one would give Anna Gunn praise for appearing in one of the greatest shows of all time, then I will.

 

On ‎6‎/‎15‎/‎2014 at 1:10 AM, Wilowy said:

 

Two. She's also Mrs. Bullock. 

 

On ‎7‎/‎10‎/‎2014 at 5:45 PM, Starscream said:

I'm not so sure what's hard to understand.  The lure of the show is Walt taking risks and seeing how he'll manage to get away with it.  Skyler was just one giant stick-in-the-mud from the very beginning.

 

I think there's a huge difference in sympathizing with a character and sympathizing with the kind of person a character represents.  Walt was a good character and a bad person.  It's insulting for people like Gilligan and Gunn to get bent out of shape about how viewers reacted to Walt and Skyler, because Walt was a sympathetic character in the midst of a long transition from good to evil, while Skyler was an incessant nag from day one.  Just because Skyler is eventually put into a position where any reasonable person should feel sorry for her doesn't suddenly make her less annoying.

 

I think she passed the annoying hat to Jesse in the last season, however.

 

On ‎7‎/‎11‎/‎2014 at 4:03 PM, Sweet Tee said:

Being the character who has to always ask what the lead is hiding is never a fun job. It's understandable but not much fun to watch. But once Skyler found out, she got was more interesting and we got more depth to the character. She was partly his victim but partly his partner in crime (much like Jesse). The only times I hated her where the same times and for the same reasons I hated Walt. Sticking by Walt and helping him make that "confession" tape after Hank and Marie found out was despicable. I hated that she would do that to her own sister and to the very end never made move to fix things with her. Marie made all the moves and she was a true victim who lost her husband because of Walt and Skyler. But I never hated her until all of that happened and believe me I hated Walt for it just as much.

 

On ‎7‎/‎11‎/‎2014 at 5:06 PM, walnutqueen said:

I like Skyler; always have, always will.  She is smart and shrewd and a whole lot more interesting than her vapid sister.   ;-)

I wanted to give a heads up to all you Breaking Bad fans.  I know a lot of you watch Better Call Saul, but this is to the ones who do not.  Gilligan understands he made a mistake with the Skyler character.  He had to build Walt up in the beginning and he made Skyler into the shrewish wife cliché that most people hate it.

In Saul, there is a slender blond woman named Kim who is Saul's love interest.  I was horrified that they were going to have Skyler 2.0.  Instead, they have built Kim into a beautifully complex character.  Kim is the character I am most interested in the show, since I already know what is going to happen to Saul, Mike, and Gus.  She is hardworking and has a moral code.  That being said, she understands the man she is in love with and does not try to change him into something he is not.  In turn, she does not allow him to change her into something she can not live with.  They are two people in love, but very different when it comes to their philosophies on how to practice law.  She is not a victim who is being lead astray by a bad boy via some Lifetime movie of the week.  Kim is character with agency and she controls her own destiny (at least for now).  Anyway, after all the Skyler hate, I wanted to give Gilligan some props for creating such a wonderful character, that I think most of you would enjoy. 

[ByTor]

@qtpye...I'm sure you know I'm one of the Saul watchers (planning to watch tonight!!) & I completely agree, LOVE Kim!!!

[qtpye]

Just now, ByTor said:

@qtpye...I'm sure you know I'm one of the Saul watchers (planning to watch tonight!!) & I completely agree, LOVE Kim!!!

Can't wait to read your comments...Kim is really a well crafted character.

[John Potts]

On ‎10‎/‎01‎/‎2017 at 8:14 PM, Uncle JUICE said:

He wasn't a rabbi on The Sopranos, but he absolutely was a rabbi on something

Are you thinking of Father Phil Intintola (Paul Shulze)? He was a priest that Carmella had a sort-of affair with (he's also played Nurse Jackie's boyfriend/drug supplier Eddie Walzer and Jack Bauer's boss Ryan Chapelle in the early seasons of 24).

[Uncle JUICE]

So I'm watching Crawl Space right now, and I'm honestly trying to figure this out: was Beneke REALLY trying to blackmail Skyler, trying to get more money out of her? When I first saw it, the first couple of times, I was sure the answer was "of course he was." But watching it now...it's not nearly as clear. I'm at best a maybe.