Season 4 Discussion

[Rhondinella]

Discuss any part of season 4 here.

[TudorQueen]

Although I loved the final episodes with all my heart, overall my favorite season was Season 4 - the chess game between Gus (one of my favorite characters) and an increasingly unstable, yet still brilliant Walt, the tearing at the bond between Walt and Jesse, Skyler's increased involvement, Mike's increased role, and (finally!) some insight into Gus's character and motivations, not to mention the icy way he took out the entire cartel leadership at the risk of poisoning himself!

 

Most of my friends who watched B&B disagreed with me, some of them disliked Season 4 quite a bit. Any thoughts here?

[00redsvt]

I'm only 3 episodes in, but so far I am liking it. I was honestly ready to abandon ship towards the end of season 3, but I talked myself into staying by using the "Not a Quitter" mentality. Maybe once I get thru it all, I can give a better opinion.

[DangerousMinds]

I enjoyed Season 4 a lot. Gus had to go!!

[ladyrott]

Loved season 4 and Gus was just an awesome character.  He was so rigidly polite and proper and yet such a sick bastard underneath.  His death was one of my favorite moments in the series.  When he walked out of the room and straightened his tie I thought "Walt is screwed, it didn't work" and then the camera circled around and I actually cheered.  It figures that even as a walking corpse, Gus would straighten that tie before dropping dead.  LOL

[TudorQueen]

I remember watching the Emmys that year and when Giancarlo Esposito came out to present an award (he'd already graciously lost Supporting Actor to Aaron Paul), he was wearing a suit and tie rather than a tux. And all I could think was that if he'd paused to straighten that tie, no one would remember anything else about the Emmy Awards! He didn't, though...

[Sweet Tee]

Man, I loved Gus. I was actually a little bummed when he died because he was such a great character. Evil, sure, but no more than Walt. Season 4 on the whole is probably my second favorite right behind season 2.

[Constantinople]

Although I loved the final episodes with all my heart, overall my favorite season was Season 4 - the chess game between Gus (one of my favorite characters) and an increasingly unstable, yet still brilliant Walt, the tearing at the bond between Walt and Jesse, Skyler's increased involvement, Mike's increased role, and (finally!) some insight into Gus's character and motivations, not to mention the icy way he took out the entire cartel leadership at the risk of poisoning himself!

 

Most of my friends who watched B&B disagreed with me, some of them disliked Season 4 quite a bit. Any thoughts here?

 

 

I enjoyed Season 5 more than I thought I would, but Season 4 is still my favorite too.

 

I loved Season 4 for all the reasons you listed.

 

Also, the finale is still one of my favorite episodes, if not my favorite episode of the series.  It's not just how it turned out, but the way everyone behaved -- Walter, Hector Salamanca & Gus, in particular -- made sense given their personalities and personal history with one another.

 

I also loved the phone call between Walt & Skyler at the end of the episode when Skyler tells Walt the news reports about the nursing home, asks Walt what happened and Walt just says "I won".

 

The musical choices for the episode were all excellent.  In particular, the music that played as Gus got out of the car in the parking lot and started walking to the nursing home, and the music that played as Walter drove away from the hospital and the camera panned to his backyard.

[KnoxForPres]

I just finished season four. I struggled in the beginning and came close to giving up. I'm so glad I didn't. Gus' death was amazing. I hated to see him go.

To be fair, because I am late to watching, I think this show was so built up that I've been expecting too much. Don't get me wrong, it's great, but I think all the hype can give false expectations.

It's hard to remember everything exactly, but I think season 4 is my favorite. Maybe I will sing a different tune when I am fully finished. 8 eps to go. Praying to the gods for a rainy Sunday soon.

[Tigerlily]

To be fair, because I am late to watching, I think this show was so built up that I've been expecting too much. Don't get me wrong, it's great, but I think all the hype can give false expectations.

 

I feel the same way. It was so hyped up, "best show ever", yada yada yada and I'm just like, yeah... its cool.

 

It doesn't help that I pretty much loathe Walt and cheer against him in every scene (except where it means Jesse or any other character I actually care about might get hurt or lose in some way).

 

Also agree with everyone who said said that Gus Fring was an EPIC character. RIP Fring. The scene where he takes out the cartel was classic. Stone cold gangster.

[KnoxForPres]

I feel the same way. It was so hyped up, "best show ever", yada yada yada and I'm just like, yeah... its cool.

It doesn't help that I pretty much loathe Walt and cheer against him in every scene (except where it means Jesse or any other character I actually care about might get hurt or lose in some way).

Also agree with everyone who said said that Gus Fring was an EPIC character. RIP Fring. The scene where he takes out the cartel was classic. Stone cold gangster.

Are you my long lost identical twin?

I since finished the series. I got my wish and it rained last weekend.

I hated Walt. Hated him. And not in the love to hate way.

Man, that scene where Gus took out the cartel was seriously one of the best scenes ever. One thing I've wondered about is how did Jesse know where the doctor was? With Gus close to death and Mike in a bad way, were they even able to communicate?

eta: I have started another way hyped series; The Wire. I have to say, so far it's living up. Check it out if you haven't.

Edited August 17, 2014 by KnoxForPres

[DangerousMinds]

I have always wondered the same thing - how did Jesse know how to find the doctor out in the middle of nowhere? He had no idea they would be speeding out of there.

[Tigerlily]

Are you my long lost identical twin?

I since finished the series. I got my wish and it rained last weekend.

I hated Walt. Hated him. And not in the love to hate way.

Man, that scene where Gus took out the cartel was seriously one of the best scenes ever. One thing I've wondered about is how did Jesse know where the doctor was? With Gus close to death and Mike in a bad way, were they even able to communicate?

eta: I have started another way hyped series; The Wire. I have to say, so far it's living up. Check it out if you haven't.

 

Haha, maybe we were seperated at TV birth! Good call on how did Jesse how where the hospital was... never caught it. I guess that's just a leap of faith or a gap in the story we're expected to fill in. I can overlook a few of those for an otherwise amazing series that really did pack a punch. 

 

I have watched a few seasons of The Wire and while I did like it, it never truly hooked me and I must have had some life event of just got busy or whatever and dropped it and never picked it back up again. I think I stopped watching at season 3 or 4, right after "Hamsterdam". My favourite TV show ever is The Shield and at the time The Wire was compared to it and swept all the accolades... I never got the hype on that one either. Certainly very good, but not "best ever". I did watch and love The Sopranos from start to finish though, I still rate The Shield over that, too. 

 

I like Breaking Bad over The Wire. Sopranos over both of those and The Shield over everything!

 

(I'm a die-hard Shield fanatic, lol)

[thatguy01]

I have always wondered the same thing - how did Jesse know how to find the doctor out in the middle of nowhere? He had no idea they would be speeding out of there.

Presumably, Mike told Jesse.  Mike was conscious when they left the hacienda.

[Andromeda]

Season 4 — so good. A lot of character growth (or change) throughout the season. I am so into this show right now, I resent that there's a three-day holiday weekend because I have to do family stuff and I can't finish the show!! I am enjoying it more than The Wire, partly because it has a good dose of black humor.

 

Jesse broke my heart when he turned all nihilistic, and had the endless junkie party. Awful. I felt bad for his house, too, so I was glad to see him repainting later in the season. And also happy to see the Roomba wasn’t dead, after some junkie decided to take it apart (unless it was a new one, of course.) Jesse could have afforded to have a fancier party, but he was catering to his people -- he still wears the same humble wardrobe, he selected an unremarkable car, and the house he bought because it had sentimental value. He doesn't seem to have many indulgences that money can buy, other than the odd stereo system or flatscreen TV. I got a kick out of him taking a girl's hand and leading her upstairs...to play Mario Kart!

 

Later in the season, Jesse really came into his own. I feel like he’s finally become a man, able to stand on his own two feet and not rely on Walt at all. Yes, he was a being used by Gus, but it gave him a chance to show his own abilities. I loved that scene where he put the Mexican chemist in his place! I had to rewind and watch it a second time. It was like Jesse grew up in the space of ten seconds while he figured out how to handle the situation. And the scene where he dealt with the junkies with the shovel...LOL! "Why are you digging a hole?" "You know why..."

 

Early in the season, I was sad that Walt was right, and Jesse wasn't seeing how he was being used by Gus. (While Walt was right when he cried out, "It's all about ME!", it's just such a self-centered thing to say, like Jesse has no value outside of Walt.) Then, as the season progressed, I forgot about what Jesse being with Mike and Gus meant for Walt, and just wanted Jesse to shine.

 

Walt…Wow, he’s really turning to the dark side. He’s become so manipulative. Now he’s even using Jesse. What he did to the little boy…just no words. After knowing how Jesse was so affected by the 11-year-old’s death the previous season, too! What a scumbag. Such a narcissist -- he really just needs the accolades and to feel like he's the smartest guy in the room, even if it puts his family and co-workers at risk. Here he had Hank believing Gale was Heisenberg, and he goes and plants doubts in Hank's mind, because he just cannot tolerate that someone else is taking credit for his work! And he claims to Skylar that he's all about protecting the family. She's right -- she's the one who protects the family from the guy who's protecting the family.

 

Skyler is several steps behind, but she’s following Walt down the dark path. It was interesting to see her turning so manipulative, too. Who knew she had it in her? Both in how she purchased the car wash (it was a lot like Walt because it was for revenge, not because it was the best property), and the whole IRS thing. She even hired muscle! Woah. She's certainly taking to the lifestyle better than I anticipated, and I think she's in denial about that to a big extent.

 

Hank -- I'm still so impressed by him. I was happy to see him get his mojo back. The cat-and-mouse game between Hank and Gus was fascinating and had me on the edge of my seat.

 

Gus — It was great to see his past and his motivations. No one, even the worst of the worst, is completely black and white on this show. Everyone is shades of gray, which makes it such a rich show. In his flashback, I got a strong feeling that his friendship/partnership with his friend who was murdered is a lot like Jesse/Walt's friendship/partnership. I think Gus sees that Jesse is extremely loyal, like Gus was to his partner/friend, and sees it as a characteristic he can use. At first I think Gus really did mean to get rid of Jesse, and take him out of the equation altogether because Walt wanted him, but Jesse proved himself, so Gus changed his plans and decided to make Jesse Walt's replacement.

 

That scene where Gus eliminates the cartel using poison — it was Godfather levels of awesome. And Jesse taking out that final henchman — thinking on his feet and doing what needs to be done. I think Mike likes Jesse. The occasional smile from Mike (or Gus) when Jesse does a good job made me feel so good for him, because Walt is always grinding Jesse down. I’m at the point where I’d prefer Jesse be Mike’s protege rather than Walt’s, since Walt is such a douchey manipulator who only thinks of himself. I don’t get that vibe from Mike at this point.

 

I also wondered how Jesse knew how to find the doctor, but perhaps he was briefed on it as a just-in-case, or Mike was able to tell him since he wasn't unconscious. Also, if the field hospital was six miles from the border, the cartel’s HQ was also practically on the border, which would be unusual, but this show doesn't normally ping my "Are you kidding me?" radar so I'll let it slide.

 

The final few episodes were so well done. Real nail-biters. There were times I had no idea how they'd get out of jams, but the resolution worked so well and it all made sense. Then came the twist at the end as the camera closes in on the lily of the valley in Walt's own backyard. OMG, I was shocked, but it all made sense. That's quality writing right there. Not a twist for shock's sake, but a well-thought-out plot progression as the story is unveiled.

 

OK, yeah. I spent a lot of virtual ink on Jesse. He's become my favorite character, because he still has a SOUL. Who'da thunk the junkie would turn out to have higher moral standards than the high school teacher! Thus is the beauty of Breaking Bad.

 

Now onto the end game.

Edited September 2, 2014 by Andromeda

[Simon Boccanegra]

I'm only ten minutes into "Bug," so forgive me for doing the board-skimming equivalent of plugging my fingers in my ears and chanting "La la la I can't hear you!" (I am still unspoiled for a lot), but my stray thought for the day is that if there should ever be a Gus thread, "Chicken-Slingin' Son of a Bitch" should be its subtitle. Good one, Hank.  

 

I love the perceptive, no-nonsense, dog-with-a-bone version of Hank, and how he can flip the switch so quickly from macho goofball or sulky mope to that. That little interview with Gus a couple of episodes ago was great. Everyone else is being so obsequious and just lapping up every facile explanation, and Gus thinks he's out of there with no sweat, and Hank is sitting there just giving him a look of pure flint. "Just one thing. I know you're Chilean national. Why can't we find any records of you?" 

Edited September 20, 2014 by Simon Boccanegra

[Simon Boccanegra]

Okay, another season in the books and back in the box for me. I was reading the discussion above as to where this one ranks. For me, behind S3 and S2, in that order. It repeated itself a bit, I had to fight to stay alert during anything involving the car wash or Ted's tax problems, and "Crawl Space" is so far the only apparent BB pantheon episode that did not do it for me ("Face Off" was much better), especially that closing sequence when Walt discovers the money missing and loses his mind. For one thing, Anna Gunn's acting seemed a little off. 

 

I would say Gus had a good run, but it was time for it to end. We had seen his repertoire many times over, and I was getting a bit...not bored exactly, with the inscrutable expressions, the surveillance, the henchmen, the changing positions on Jesse and Walt respectively, but ready for a game-changer. The super-lab set was great, but I will not miss looking at it.  

 

One thing I liked a lot was the theme of family running through the season. I have not listened to any commentaries or read interviews yet, but it seemed to me that one of the ideas was to make Walt's self-justification spread outward in this season. They all see themselves as family-first people, the major and minor characters alike. There are varying degrees of hypocrisy, but in most cases some sincerity at the core of it. Skyler, now in collaborator mode. Marie and Hank. Jesse, estranged from his family of origin and trying to create a new one with Andrea and Brock; with three criminal father figures, Walt, Mike, and Gus; and even with the users he let take up permanent residence at his house early in the season. Andrea herself, and her grandmother. Mike with his granddaughter. Ted, referencing not only his children (the reason he gives for keeping quiet when he's in the hospital) but his employees (whom he uses as justification for his crimes). Gus and Tio, both engineering mayhem and bloodshed to avenge murdered "family." Is Saul the only major player who is exclusively and gleefully self-interested? 

Edited September 22, 2014 by Simon Boccanegra

[pieinmyeye]

I'm watching Breaking Bad for the second time and I still don't understand how Brock was poisoned. Yes, I know what he was poisoned with, but I don't understand how it happened or why. What happened to Jesse's ricin cigarette? Based on the final shot are we to assume Walt did it or did I miss something?

[Simon Boccanegra]

Walt poisoned Brock with lily of the valley extract off screen. He could have put it in a juice box or anything. Huell (Saul's employee) switched out Jesse's cigarette pack when searching him. The "why" was so Jesse would go to Walt and accuse him, and Walt could feign ignorance and point the finger at Gus, reminding Jesse of the murder of Andrea's brother and pulling him back into his kill-Gus scheme. Mission accomplished. Then

when Jesse in S5 is freaking out at the thought of this ricin cigarette still being out there somewhere, Walt ensures they "find" it (actually a dummy version filled with salt) in the Roomba.

 

Edited September 22, 2014 by Simon Boccanegra

[pieinmyeye]

Thanks for clearing that up for me Simon!

[ChipBach]

I'm watching Breaking Bad for the second time and I still don't understand how Brock was poisoned. Yes, I know what he was poisoned with, but I don't understand how it happened or why. What happened to Jesse's ricin cigarette? Based on the final shot are we to assume Walt did it or did I miss something?

I always thought this device was a real reach.  To anticipate all the things "going right" to pull this off seemed very implausible to me.  

For it to occur to Jessie how it all played out when Huell swiped his pot was even more unbelievable to me..

[DangerousMinds]

I agree, it was very convoluted.

[Simon Boccanegra]

I agree, and another problem I had with it was Cranston not being in on it when he acted the scene of Walt denying it to Jesse. We see Walt lie too often; whether the other characters can see the tells and have lingering suspicions or not, we can. That scene was absolutely Walt being desperate and truthful. It just doesn't work for me when I watch it now knowing he had poisoned Brock. Compare to

Walt insisting to Jesse that had had not killed Mike.

[Bryce Lynch]

I loved season 4. Gustavo Fring was a great character.

I just noticed one strange thing. When the cartel was hitting the Los Pollos Hermanos trucks, why did Gus put armed security in the trailer, but not have anyone riding shotgun, in the cab with the driver?

Another thing I always wondered was if Walt had not been forced to hire Jesse to save Hank from ruin, how awesome would the meth empire Dream Team of Fring, Walt, Mike and Gale have been?

Walt and Gale could have produced massive amounts of ultra high quality meth. They might have even started a 2nd super lab with Gale in charge.

Mike would provide security and manage the day to day distribution.

Fring would run the operation with his amazing organizational skills and strategic evil genius. Plus, he and Walt, who proved to be on a similar level in that regard could brainstorm and come up with even more brilliant strategy and Walt could also provide Gus and Mike with all sorts of cool bombs, poisons and other weapons of mass destruction, made from ordinary household items. "Yeah, science!"

I think the 4 of them could have taken over much of the Southwest and parts of Mexico and turned it into their own South American style military dictatorship. If only Jesse had shut the door when Hank came to beat the crap out of him. :)

Edited January 31, 2015 by Bryce Lynch

[ByTor]

I loved season 4. Gustavo Fring was a great character.

 how awesome would the meth empire Dream Team of Fring, Walt, Mike and Gale have been?

I loved Gale...I'm also a Libertarian :)  I have often said that Walt would have had no problems if he were more like Gale, but then I have to remind myself that if he were, there would be no BB!

[Bryce Lynch]

I agree, and another problem I had with it was Cranston not being in on it when he acted the scene of Walt denying it to Jesse. We see Walt lie too often; whether the other characters can see the tells and have lingering suspicions or not, we can. That scene was absolutely Walt being desperate and truthful. It just doesn't work for me when I watch it now knowing he had poisoned Brock. Compare to

Walt insisting to Jesse that had had not killed Mike.

Good point. I always thought Walt was a terrible liar, a brilliant plotter and schemer and manipulator, but a terrible liar. Walt always seemed to ramble on and add unnecessary and odd details and commentary during his lies.

It seemed like while he was only occasionally caught in a lie, almost every time he lied he came up with something barely plausible enough that the person he was lying to couldn't prove he was lying, but left them with the feeling that he probably was lying.

When Skyler said something to the effect that lying didn't come as easy to her, I scoffed. Skyler was a born liar and a very convincing one. There was her well researched and carefully rehearsed, gambling addiction story, her ditzy, blonde bookkeeper act, her going into labor act she used on store security when she tried to return Marie's stolen tiara, conning the locksmith into letting her into Walt's house, and the brilliant lies she channeled though Kuby to get Bogdan to sell the car wash.

I always wondered if that is why when Hank jokingly "accused" Walt of being the W.W. in Gale's lab notes he put his hands up and joked "You got me!" and when Hank asked what was in the heavy duffel bag he replied, "Half million in cash". Was he making joking "confessions" to avoid making unconvincing lies? He did a similar thing in "Dead Freight" when Skyler sarcastically asked him if he was "Out burying bodies" and he calmly replied "Robbing a train."

Edited February 4, 2015 by Bryce Lynch

[Bryce Lynch]

One thing from season 4 that bugged me a little was what I think was incorrect accounting talk regarding Beneke Fabricators. Skyler spoke of recorded revenue without backup, when if he was really hiding income, you would have the opposite.

Also "cooking the books" normally means showing a greater profit than actual, to inflate the stock price, or in some cases "managing" profits by pushing profits into a future periods, to show artificial period over period growth. It is not normally used to describe tax evasion.

Today, rewatching "Bug" it dawned on me that if Beneke Fabricators was really doing poorly and losing money, it would have no taxable income, and therefore could not have unpaid taxes that would bring felony charges on Ted. If anything Ted would be building up a nice Net Operating Loss carry forward to offset future taxable income if business improved.

Another thing I noticed is that from certain angles the car wash resembles a jail cell. When Skyler is shown working at her desk, the vertical blinds look like bars. I noticed the same thing when Walt got the barrel of money photo and "Got my photo, bitch?" call from Jesse in To'hajiilee. I wonder if this was intentional.

[Bryce Lynch]

Another question from "Bug". If the cartel wanted Jesse for its lab, why did Gaff take a shot at him, that would have killed him if Mike didn't push Jesse out of the way?

[Bryce Lynch]

I loved Gale...I'm also a Libertarian :) I have often said that Walt would have had no problems if he were more like Gale, but then I have to remind myself that if he were, there would be no BB!

I liked Gale, but I don’t really buy his "I'm a Libertarian" excuse. I get that you could argue that there shouldn't be a law against producing drugs that adults choose to take and ruin their lives with and harm others.

But, because there shouldn't be a law against it, doesn't make it morally right to do it. You could argue that it shouldn't make him a criminal, but it still makes him a bad person.

Liberty should be used for good not to do harm or contribute to harm. I believe that as a society becomes more Libertarian, with fewer laws, it is more, not less, essential that the people make good, moral choices.

BTW, do you have any good recipes for vegan s'mores? :-)

Edited February 5, 2015 by Bryce Lynch

[ByTor]

But, because there shouldn't be a law against it, doesn't make it morally right to do it. You could argue that it shouldn't make him a criminal, but it still makes him a bad person.

Liberty should be used for good not to do harm or contribute to harm. I believe that as a society becomes more Libertarian, with fewer laws, it is more, not less, essential that the people make good, moral choices.

I became a Libertarian because I feel that the government has no business telling me & others what is ok to put in out bodies; government control is what is immoral.  If someone chooses to harm him/herself and as a result others, the onus is on him/her...personal responsibility and all that...off topic and end of rant, although I can go on :)

 

 

One thing from season 4 that bugged me a little was what I think was incorrect accounting talk regarding Beneke Fabricators. Skyler spoke of recorded revenue without backup, when if he was really hiding income, you would have the opposite.

Also "cooking the books" normally means showing a greater profit than actual, to inflate the stock price, or in some cases "managing" profits by pushing profits into a future periods, to show artificial period over period growth. It is not normally used to describe tax evasion.

As well as being a Libertarian I'm also a CPA...from what I remember with Ted, he had the revenue without backup so he could make the company appear profitable.  His fake revenue resulted in fake income, which resulted in a large tax liability.  I don't recall Ted ever saying he was trying to hide revenue.

[Bryce Lynch]

I became a Libertarian because I feel that the government has no business telling me & others what is ok to put in out bodies; government control is what is immoral.  If someone chooses to harm him/herself and as a result others, the onus is on him/her...personal responsibility and all that...off topic and end of rant, although I can go on :)

 

 

As well as being a Libertarian I'm also a CPA...from what I remember with Ted, he had the revenue without backup so he could make the company appear profitable.  His fake revenue resulted in fake income, which resulted in a large tax liability.  I don't recall Ted ever saying he was trying to hide revenue.

I am an accountant as well, as you might have guessed.  I think the accounting chatter between Skyler and Ted was a bit confusing and possibly inconsistent. 

 

I think if he had been cooking the books to show extra profits, and the IRS auditor discovered that, it wouldn't be his concern.  The IRS should be concerned with collected taxes on real income, not fake income.   Now, if the company was public (and I am pretty sure it was not) the auditor would probably forward the case to the SEC for a securities fraud investigation.  If it was solely owned by Ted or closely held it could bring problems with creditors, other shareholders and stakeholders and could possibly bring civil or criminal fraud charges. 

 

You have to wonder where Ted's outside auditors where when this was going on.  :) 

 

From the meeting with the auditor, it seemed the issue was that cash was coming in (from Keller in particular) but no revenue was being booked against it, meaning taxes were being underpaid.  I took Ted's earlier comments to mean that he was evading taxes to keep the company going under rather than overstating profits, but again, if you are in a situation where the company is losing money, there should be no taxable income to hide and evade taxes on. 

 

The other possibility is that Beneke Fabricators was making a profit, but not enough to support Ted's lavish lifestyle, private school for the girls, BMW, home with heated floors, and mistress (though Skyler seemed like a cheap one) :), so he was evading taxes to keep extra money.   The fact that he ran out to get a new Mercedes as soon he received "Great Aunt Birgit's" money, rather than paying his freaking taxes and staying out of jail, would support the idea that he was a spendthrift and rather irresponsible.

 

The somewhat clumsy way the accounting/tax issues were handled by the writers is one of my minor pet peeves, in what was probably the greatest TV show of all time. I'm sure some real chemists got annoyed with the chemistry inaccuracies in a similar way. :)

 

The only other thing I can think of was the fuzzy math around the value of  methylamine and the meth yield from it.  If the thieves were willing to steal the 30 gallon barrel for $10,000, that would put the value at about $333 per gallon, meaning the 1,000 gallons would be worth around $333,000.  Declan said the $15 million asking price was "steep" and was paying a premium to get rid of the competition from Heisenberg, but he was apparently offering about 45 times the value.

 

Regarding the yield, Jesse and Walt made about 40 lbs with the 30 gallons, though they had a little left.  Let's assume the could have made another 10 lbs.  That would be a yield of about 1.66 lbs per gallon.  Even if Walt had cooked the whole 1,000 gallons, I estimate he would have had made about $55 million after Declan and Lydia got their cuts of the domestic and international sales, respectively.  Plus he had to pay Todd, the Vamanos pest guys, and purchase the other precursors, and during the "Crystal Blue Persuasion" cook scene, it appeared that Saul was still getting a cut.  I don't see how he could have netted $80 million (plus whatever they spent in cash and what Skyler successfully laundered by ringing up phantom car wash customers (and wishing them all an A-1 day!)  

 

What makes it worse is that even after Todd and Declan's cook continued to cook (badly) during Walt's retirement period and then Jesse cooked for 8 or 9 months, there was still methlyamine remaining, so Walt probably couldn't have cooked more than about half of it. 

[ByTor]

Bryce...you obviously remember this whole thing better than I do...your mentioning the cash coming in with no revenue is now ringing a bell with me.  And you're also right, where were the auditors?  Ted must have been great at covering things up, from falsely overstating income to make the company look better to falsely understating to avoid paying taxes.  Geez, maybe if he worked as hard on the company as he did on lying, the company actually WOULD be doing well!  But then I have to tell myself it's a SHOW...and a huge plot point was Skyler giving all that cash to Ted to pay the taxes!

[Pike Ludwell]

"That scene was absolutely Walt being desperate and truthful. It just doesn't work for me when I watch it now knowing he had poisoned Brock."

 

I never had trouble buying it, because unlike other lying scenes with Walt, in this one his life was truly, immediately at stake. So therefore the extra-effective lying had to kick in, to save his life.

[Bryce Lynch]

"That scene was absolutely Walt being desperate and truthful. It just doesn't work for me when I watch it now knowing he had poisoned Brock."

 

I never had trouble buying it, because unlike other lying scenes with Walt, in this one his life was truly, immediately at stake. So therefore the extra-effective lying had to kick in, to save his life.

As Mike Ehrmantraut put it, "Everyone sounds like Meryl Streep with a gun to their head."  :) 

[Bryce Lynch]

Bryce...you obviously remember this whole thing better than I do...your mentioning the cash coming in with no revenue is now ringing a bell with me.  And you're also right, where were the auditors?  Ted must have been great at covering things up, from falsely overstating income to make the company look better to falsely understating to avoid paying taxes.  Geez, maybe if he worked as hard on the company as he did on lying, the company actually WOULD be doing well!  But then I have to tell myself it's a SHOW...and a huge plot point was Skyler giving all that cash to Ted to pay the taxes!

Yes, the overall plot point worked well, to make up a reason that Skyler would give away Walt's "disappearer fund", apparently dooming the family, and give it to the man she had an affair with, adding insult to injury.  The whole situation perfectly setup Walt's breakdown and hysterical laughter in the crawl space.  The only thing that would have made it worse would be if he found that the rot had returned while he was down there. :)

 

It is just the details about how they explained the accounting/tax scandal that were poorly written IMHO.  Non accountants probably wouldn't even notice, just as I wouldn't notice any chemistry errors. 

[DangerousMinds]

The "morality" of taking any drugs is subjective, IMO. Alcohol was once thought by many to be immoral, or lead to immoral and harmful behaviors, hence Prohibition. And we all know how well that worked out.

[Bryce Lynch]

The "morality" of taking any drugs is subjective, IMO. Alcohol was once thought by many to be immoral, or lead to immoral and harmful behaviors, hence Prohibition. And we all know how well that worked out.

True, it is a gray area and one of those areas where people who generally  believe in limited government divide.  I do think there are a couple of differences between meth and alcohol though, that could justify different treatment under the law.

 

a) Alcohol has been part of the mainstream culture of America and pretty much all of Western Civilization and beyond. With the exception of Islamic countries it is almost universally part of cultures.   As a result, even if it were as harmful as meth, it would be nearly impossible to eradicate it or even drastically reduce its use and the resulting black market and violent, criminal enterprises around that market would cause for more harm than any benefits from the modest reduction in consumption, as demonstrated by Prohibition.  Crystal meth is used by a far smaller portion of the population, so banning it is at least more feasible (though obviously not totally effective)

 

b) Though drinking causes a significant minority of alcohol users to end up destroying their lives and/or the lives of others, the vast majority of alcohol users, use it responsibly or at least fairly responsibly.  I'm not sure the same could be said of meth.  I am no expert on it, but it seems like crystal meth use is destructive to the vast majority of its users or at least to a much higher percentage than alcohol consumption is.

 

Alcohol could be viewed as a useful, popular product that some people can't handle, while crystal meth could be viewed as an inherently dangerous and harmful product that most people cannot handle.

 

Of course there is still the argument that consenting adults should be able to put whatever they want into their own bodies and suffer the consequences.

 

My point about morality is that if  a population generally makes good, sound, moral, ethical, rational, healthy, unselfish choices, a Libertarian system with very few laws would work a whole lot better than it would with a population that is irrational, immoral, unethical, selfish and self destructive. 

 

Also, assuming for a moment we agree that selling crystal meth, being a pimp or whatever should not be ILLEGAL, that does not mean that decent people should consider it acceptable and that the people who do it are decent human beings.  In fact, when the barrier of the law is removed, I think it is even MORE important for good people to speak out against, condemn, boycott, ostracize, etc. people, organizations, corporations, etc. doing things that harm others and society. 

 

I'd use Westboro "Baptist" "Church" as an example.  The vile hate they spew is legal, but it is still wrong and good people should and do reject and condemn it and those spewing it. 

Edited February 6, 2015 by Bryce Lynch

[Jordan27]

I'm also new to Breaking Bad.  Have been watching for about 6 months.  Just finished this season.

 

I was a big Dexter fan and had never seen BB and didn't get what all the fuss was about.  Plus, I thought Dexter was a great show and couldn't believe some thought BB was a better show.  I mean a serial killer who works for the police vs. a high school chemistry teacher turned meth maker?!?!

 

But, during a marathon I  watched the first 3 episodes and I was hooked.  Great show.  It deserved the hype.

 

Definitely go in my top 10 of all time.

 

Can't wait to finish, and although I was slightly spoiled on the ending,  I had thought it might go that way.

[ByTor]

But, during a marathon I  watched the first 3 episodes and I was hooked. 

Funny you should say that.  After I watched the 1st 3 episodes I thought it was terrible & depressing.  But with so many people telling me how great it was, I kept watching, and am I ever glad I did.  IMO by far the best show I've ever seen.

[John Potts]

I was puzzled by the tax thing too, since I Initially thought he was attempting to make his business look more profitable - which makes little sense, since he presumably doesn't have any shareholders. Additionally, I thought the whole business with the car wash was a bit contrived to be whatever the writers needed at the time. First off, I didn't believe the car wash owner charging her $20m out of spite - I thought he was implying he knew Walt was a drug dealer (which seemed improbable). But no, he was just pissed off that Walt called him a wanker (though Skylar recovered well with the fake EPA visit). Secondly, why was she so surprised at the amount of cash Walt was generating? She should know, at least in general terms, how much he makes (Walt paid off the mortgage and paid his medical bills - she also knows how much went through SaveWalterWhite.org, or whatever it was), so it seems like pure plot contrivance for her to conveniently leave it in bags of cash so she could give it to Ted (and boy, does Skylar have a type - self centred assholes!).

 

All of which sounds like I didn't like the Season, though for the most part I did. Gus was awesome (though scary) in building his empire and talk about "A dish best served cold"! Though I wish we learned what it was about Gus' background that the cartel kept him alive (he's CIA? It's not like they can't scrub people's history and wouldn't share that with the FBI/DEA). And how he was winning over Jesse just by treating him as a valued employee rather than an incompetent flunky (and Walt only "won" by completing his turn to the Dark Side).

 

Surprisingly, my favourite character was Hank. Once he got over his post disability depression and anger (so much so I actually started feeing sorry for Marie) he was like a bloodhound - not brilliant but completely relentless. I guess he ought to be suspicious of Walt's sudden wealth, but at least he was ahead of the rest of the DEA!

Edited June 27, 2015 by John Potts

[bookrat]

I always wondered why Walt couldn't have two partners, Gale and Jesse? And how did Walt know that Brock wouldn't die from the Lily of the Valley  poisoning or did he just not care?

Edited June 30, 2015 by bookrat

[ByTor]

I always wondered why Walt couldn't have two partners, Gale and Jesse? And how did Walt know that Brock wouldn't die from the Lily of the Valley  poisoning or did he just not care?

I also always wondered why Walt couldn't work with both Jesse and Gale. Considering that Gale was supposed to learn Walt's method so Gus could "dispose" of Walt, if Jesse were also there Gale would already have an assistant...unless of course my memory is totally off & this was during the time that Gus didn't trust "junkie" Jesse. As far as the lily of the valley, I always assumed his knowledge of chemistry allowed him to properly dose Brock. I guess it's just the Walt fan in me that won't believe he'd ever murder a kid, especially judging from his reaction to Todd killing the boy on the bike.

[Bryce Lynch]

I always wondered why Walt couldn't have two partners, Gale and Jesse? And how did Walt know that Brock wouldn't die from the Lily of the Valley poisoning or did he just not care?

When Walt started working for Gus, Jesse was not an option. Gus didn't want a junkie working for him and Walt and Jesse were on very, bad terms. In fact, part of the reason Walt took the job was to spite Jesse.

When Walt offered Jesse the partnership to save Hank's career he needed to create a fake "desperate situation" to get Gus to agree. He had to pretend Gale was totally not working out to get Gus to accept Jesse.

[John Potts]

I'm pretty sure it was a case of "Just didn't care" whether Brock lived or died. If you want to believe the best of Walt (which is an increasingly untenable position by this point!) you could say he had a good idea what dosage was required to incapacitate but not kill, though you'd need to know at least his rough bodyweight to make that sort of determination (did Walt ever meet Brock? I forget).

 

As for why Walt didn't want to work with Gale and Jesse: presumably for the same reason Gus didn't want both working for him. He wanted to keep the number of people who could potentially turn against him as small as possible. Walt, like Gus, wants to build an empire: to do that you need to make damn sure nobody is working against you. The only difference was that Walt (understandably) thinks more short term than Gus did.

[Shield86]

I started watching BB for the 2nd time and I was really trying to see all the lies and manipulations that Walt crafted and one that really stands out to me is when Walt buys Walt Jr that charger knowing full well him and Skylar jus got done talking about the gambling cover and laying low,then after Walt Jr has the car for a few hrs Skylar comes home and makes Jr give up the car and Walt says "I'm jus afraid he's gonna blame u for this"lol that was his entire reasoning for getting the car to punish skylar

[AliShibaz]

Holy Moley!

Season 4 sure did turn out to be one Hell of a Season. Oh my gosh! It did not leave very much to be desired. So much great action. Wow!

I just finished watching the epsisode where people fell into the swimming pool and they were not playing any game either. It was all deadly serious stuff.

Oh my oh my! Someone told me that as the show progresses, they found themselves liking some of the characters more and more all the time. Especially Jessie and Skylar and when I first heard that, I just snorted and couldn't believe my ears. But now, Yikers! I sure do see what they meant. I don't understand just why I'm liking Jessie so much more. But I do.

I never would have believed that but it surely was true.  I'm feeling as if I should have something more to say. But at this time, I just feel kind of shell shocked and don't really know what to say.

This show certainly has turned out to be much better than I ever figured it would. I just keeps getting better and better and better all the time. I sure do wish that there was more to come except for the last 16 episodes. I feels like I could just go on and on watching forever!

Edited May 11, 2016 by AliShibaz

[AliShibaz]

There is one question I have and that concerns Jessie sitting in a 12 step meeting and talking about a dog that he had to have "put down" (in fact, I think the name of that episode was "The dog"). This was likely the last meeting he ever would attend because he confessed that he only came to these meeting in order to sell meth to the people there (which presumbably was not true).

However, he seemed sincere when he spoke about this dog and I got the impression he was telling the story of how he murdered Gayle (sp?). But, why would he have such regret? Would that be the turning point in his life? Would that be the moment in which he "grew up" and decided to take some responsibility for his actions and decided that murder was wrong and that he would not want to do that anymore?

If not, I really didn't understand what he was doing in that meeting with that confession. Then again, I have attended some of those meetings in the past and never really understood what people were trying to accomplish there.

Edited May 11, 2016 by AliShibaz

[ByTor]

1 hour ago, AliShibaz said:

However, he seemed sincere when he spoke about this dog and I got the impression he was telling the story of how he murdered Gayle (sp?). But, why would he have such regret? Would that be the turning point in his life? Would that be the moment in which he "grew up" and decided to take some responsibility for his actions and decided that murder was wrong and that he would not want to do that anymore?

Yeah, the dog was a metaphor for Gale.  IMO Jesse felt bad because Gale did nothing to any of them and didn't deserve to be murdered, not because he now realizes murder is wrong.  I ended up liking Jesse, but only because I felt that his character worked for what it needed to be for show purposes.  I don't think Jesse ever particularly grew up.

[AliShibaz]

It came to me this morning the reason I grew to like Jesse was because he displayed real loyalty more than once in this show. It wasn't particularly part of his character but for some reason that I don't understand, he just developed that trait and became a loyal person to his friends and associates.

By the end of S4, I was left wondering what ever happened to all his so-called friends that he used to have come visit his home. They just stopped coming over and Jessie just stopped having 24 hour parties. Seems to me that was just better for everyone. But the one person who continued to always mess things up was Skylar. She would often take it upon herself to intervene in order to "fix things" and when she did that, she almost always "fucked up everything". She would just have to be the very worst woman in the entire world to have as a spouse. She means well and she is talented. But when she takes things into her own hands, just "Look out world!" She just messes up everything. I understand that Walt loves her and wants to be with her. But, IMHO, she is a pretty awful choice. I guess it's not really her fault. But she just can't keep her mouth shut and she just can't keep from messing things up for everyone she tries to help - at least that is the way it seems ot work out!

[AliShibaz]

OK. I just finished watching the last episode in Season 4. Wow! What a great season and what a great show!

Now ... the thing that is troubling me is ... should I really chance watching Season 5? I mean the end of Season 4 was just the perfect way to end the show. If I didn't know any better, I would have thought that would be the Grand Finale to this show and there would be nothing else to see. Why in the world would there be any further seasons or any further episodes? Everything wound up perfect!  (asuming of course that Ted is dead). IMHO, Ted certainly does deserve to be dead. But all the other characters seem to have reached the logical end of their arcs.

I'm happy with seeing Hank remain a kind of paraplegic for the rest of his life because ... after all ... Hank is a kind of a dick isn't he? He really doesn't deserve much better. And Marie? What a mess. If I could write any more episodes for Marie, it would just be to have some terrible things happen to her. I sure wouldn't mind if she wound up in prison or had some other terrible calamity in her life because, after all, she sure would deserve most anything bad that happened to her.

But, am I missing any other characters? I just can't see there are any others who deserve to have anything good or anything bad happen to them. Besides, after watching five seasons of Game of Thrones, I've sort of learned that what I think characters deserve to happen to them is just a bunch of foolishness. It's just not up to me. Still, I just can't imagine what all could be waiting for me in Season 5 and I want to thank you all very much for not spoiling things for me. Everyone in this forum (including all the different shows) has been unbelievably courteous in that way. I have never heard a single word about what events will be happening in the future. I sure would be disappointed if the 16 remaining episodes in Season 5 turn out to be some cheap grab at available dollars based on good ratings. Somehow, I would have a real hard time believing that because all of the actors and people behind the cameras as well as the show runner have just been incredibly professional.

If I decide not to watch Season Six (Yeah - Fat Chance!), I would have to say that just having watched the first four seasons, this show has definitely been one of the finest TV dramas I've ever seen. I don't know if you could class this show as a "mini-series". But, if it is classed that way, well ... it would def be the best mini-series I've ever seen. I just wish there were more like it. By that, I mean more with a comparable amount of talent and quality. It has just been fantabulous. I can't recall any show that was any better. And hows about that final shot of Gus' face? Wasn't that something? Really extraordinarily well done! I hope someone won an Emmy for that. The Sopranos was great. But it had a bunch of "sloppy loose ends" compared to this show. I would rate them about equal. But seems to me this show had fewer episodes (or fewer hours of air time) so they cannot really be compared directly. The Americans and Game of Thrones are different subject matters but they would be just about at the top of my list. Oh! also Fargo and Better Call Saul are also most excellent and I'd just like to mention those shows for anyone who hasn't seen them but who loves quality TV. The shows I've mentioned are just the best - the highest quality TV shows I've ever seen and I hope that if any of you have not seen any of those shows ... I hope you might take a look at them and I hope you will enjoy watching them.

Best wishes to you all.

Oh ... yes ... should I watch Season 5?

Edited May 11, 2016 by AliShibaz