S06.E13: The Gloves Are On

[cuddlingcrowley]

I guess that depends to some extent on whether the girls believe that Sara was always a willing participant in league with A from the beginning, and the whole kidnapping/bunker story was a work of if they believe that she really was kidnapped and tortured for years until she was brainwashed and would do anything that CeCe asked. If they believe the latter, then, on some level she's more of a victim than any of them.

 

 

I can't recall if the girls have hinted they're ambivalent about Sara's autonomy. Emily did confront Sara about whether she lied in court to come off like a victim. And previously that she was very agressive about Sara's stalking. 

 

I don't think most of the fans are considering Sara was truly brainwashed, either. Have we got some some sort of confirmation she was a willing helper or is it just how she's portrayed that's so terribly it doesn't invite a deeper look into the character?

Edited January 28, 2016 by cuddlingcrowley

[fitzcarraldo]

That's what makes good guys good and bad guys bad though. That whole..empathy and compassion and the ability to forgive people who might not deserve it verses "look what you did to me. Die asshole."

On "once" it seems to play out as standards, though. There isn't any gray allowed for some characters because they are "supposed " to be the white hats.

[Jack Shaftoe]

 

That's what makes good guys good and bad guys bad though. That whole..empathy and compassion and the ability to forgive people who might not deserve it verses "look what you did to me. Die asshole."

 

On TV this is taken to extremes so often that the "good guys" often start to look as candidates for a Darwin award. And the reason usually has nothing to do with wanting to give the good guys more depth but with pandering to the fans of the popular bad guys whose one and only way of remaining in the show is for the good guys to give them a million and one undeserved chances.

 

Also, feeling guilty for stuff that wasn't your fault in any way isn't empathy, it's plain old stupidity. And inconsistent too, since the Liars felt a lot less guilt for stuff like Toby being sent to juvie or Ashley possibly losing her job now which is actually their fault. They didn't feel guilty for Ian, despite him clearly acting in some misguided attempt to protect Melissa (and himself, of course).

 

 

Which still makes it not really the girls fault, but the fact that they ran off to save their abuser rather than at least one of them trying to go get help for their fellow victim is the sort of thing that I could see them feeling guilty over.

 

Didn't they run off to catch Charlotte before she had a chance to escape, not to save her?

 

 

I guess that depends to some extent on whether the girls believe that Sara was always a willing participant in league with A from the beginning, and the whole kidnapping/bunker story was a work of if they believe that she really was kidnapped and tortured for years until she was brainwashed and would do anything that CeCe asked. If they believe the latter, then, on some level she's more of a victim than any of them.

 

But they clearly don't believe the "Swedish syndrome" excuse. If they did, the plotline would make at least a modicum of sense but they don't. Of course, in a well written show, the Liars would actually be interested in knowing the truth about Sara's situation but in PLL we need endless twists, so everything is kept as vague as possible and the protagonists jump to conclusions for no apparent reason. Next episode they might suddenly start believe in the Swedish syndrome. But I doubt we would learn much about Sara's past because Marlene things vagueness is so cool and because if she was really kept prisoner for years Marlene's pet character Charlotte would have any fewer fans than she does now..

Edited January 28, 2016 by Jack Shaftoe

[peachmangosteen]

I thought I was out, but Spencer/Caleb pulled me back in, dammit! Luckily I just fast forward to their scenes though; I haven't fully lost my mind and started watching the show completely again.

[Bwill3133]

I liked this episode. I really liked Hanna and Caleb but man those scenes with Spencer were hot! And hello Melissa Hastings I have missed you! Even though you blame your teenage sister instead of your creepy exes for hitting on her. I am glad Spencer spoke to Hanna first and Hanna gave her blessing. She might regret it judging from that snippet of conversation she has with Emily next week but it's too late now. All this drama happening now is because Hanna erased the video. I get she thought she was protecting Aria but she didn't think that through so of course shes mad now. And dragging Lucas into your lies. That will come back to bite everyone. How much we will see.

Oh Ezra, it's probably futile but I hope Aria stays with her hipster boyfriend and is not drawn back to him. you are still a creep to me. I do think as the years have passed and Aria is no longer dating him the Liars seem a little less patient with him now and don't care to protect him since he's not directly connected to them anymore through Aria. One of my favorite moments of the episode was Emily's dead silence after Aria was reading Ezra's book asking , "Isn't this amazing?" No answer and asked her own question afterwards. Way to avoid answering Em.

Also Emily I wish they could put you in a better story but they clearly don't know what to do with you. Shower Harvey will never be a compelling character and I could care less that you mangled your hands after being caught in a plan that you helped with. Too bad, so sad. This isn't the Jenna thing to me at all and she will never be as interesting as Jenna. Having her pop up everywhere Emily is not ok.

[WhosThatGirl]

Eh, I feel like I'm in a boat all by myself here. I didn't like Spencer and Caleb. I didn't find all them hot, honestly. Maybe because while far and away, I loved the Haleb out of this show but that's not what my discomfort or issue is, I honestly don't give a damn about the romantic entanglements of this show. That isn't why I watch. At the end of the day, I'm watching for the friendships with the girls. I will say however, given that the show has given me history on Haleb, my money is on Spencer and Caleb being a short time thing. Plus, I hate the idea of the girls all switching boyfriends now. They never have before, why start now show? But then again, I feel like everyone on the forums is leaving me behind in the dust. It's cool, I can take it. 

 

Aside from that, whoever mentioned that a podcast claimed that the girls are better together than apart and now they've regressed, I agree. I think they are back to being the girls we met in the pilot. The very first scene ever. I don't think the four girls were all that close being the labor day incident. I think they got closer once Ali was gone but I think when she was there, she kept them at an arms distance from each other.  Because that's how Ali liked to play with her dolls. She kept all their secrets to use as bargaining chips, it was only when she disappeared that the girls finally had to tell each other their secrets.  But they are better when they are together. I hope they get that back. I do however think Ali has a way of pushing them apart again, though. She did in part A of season 5. 

 

 

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Pretty Little Liars Redistributes Hanna's Sloppy Seconds
Sure, Hanna's happy for the new couple, because she's getting married! ...Right.

[Lii]

How do you even eat fried chicken in gloves, though? Wouldn't you have to immediately change the gloves because they'd be all covered in grease and whatnot? Or is that like part of her Powers of Cleanliness Attack?

 

I like how when Ezra shouted at the girls they all jumped, even Aria, but while the other three looked like "ugh this jackass" she was like "WOE IS JULIETTE BETRAYED, MY LOVE I WILL FIX YOU" in her stupid cow eyes. Ezria drunken reunion anger ART sex incoming.

Edited January 29, 2016 by Lii

[Kaboom 2.0]

I agree, WhosThatGirl, I don't particularly like Spencer and Caleb together romantically either, I always liked them as friends. I know I've posted many times before here and on the dearly departed TWoP that I'm Hanna/Caleb For Life but I'm willing to give Spencer/Caleb a shot, I just don't think they'll last very long.

 

The one person I feel so so bad for so far is Pam Fields. Lost her hot ass husband, living alone while her only child attended college across the country, then finding out her only child has been lying to her for years...she just seems adrift and lost and I want to hug her. Sniffles.

 

I so hate Shower Harvey. Still don't know if it's bad actress, bad direction or both but girl needs to GO.

[Aquariuz]

The one person I feel so so bad for so far is Pam Fields. Lost her hot ass husband, living alone while her only child attended college across the country, then finding out her only child has been lying to her for years...she just seems adrift and lost and I want to hug her. Sniffles.

 

I feel so bad for Pam, Every time Emily decided to go out, evaded her Mom or tried to lie her ass off, I feel like screaming at her, "Gurl, pull your shit together, Your Mom needs you right now!!"

Which is saying something because Pam used to be the most uptight and annoying mother in Season 1. Now I want to give her hugs and see her smile.

[WhosThatGirl]

I feel for Pam too, but how did Emily keep her Mom away from her college graduation? I mean, the show is really asking us to suspend our disbelief that Pam would stay away from that. I guess we are supposed to believe she was too sad over losing her husband to attend but I side eye that. Emily really threw herself into this lie, didn't she. 

[Mabinogia]

Pam not going to Emily's graduation is a HUGE WTF. They would have been better to spin it as Emily decided not to go to her graduation because either that is when her dad died and she couldn't deal so she just had her diploma mailed to her or B) she decided to go on another Habitat type thing rather than parade down an aisle in a robe for a piece of paper. But to just make it seem like Pam didn't bother going is weird. I do feel for Pam because Emily is not thinking about her mothers feelings AT ALL. Nothing to do with lying to her. But my god, when her mom asks her to do something, anything, it's all "oops, can't, Ali".

I am really starting to hate all the Liars after the time jump. Which is a shame because liking them was all that kept me watching this crap. Now I've only got Spencer and sometimes Aria. But I'm losing Aria quickly as she gets sucked back into the black hole of Ezzzzria.

[Meedis]

In the first Spencer/Melissa scene, I didn't catch much after Melissa remarked about how Spencer likes to shop out of other people's carts, I was laughing too hard. But I guess it's more that Spencer likes to shop out of Melissa's cart because she did give Hanna a head's up before making a move on Caleb. Good for her.

And boy howdy, Spencer and Caleb were hot.

 

LOL Melissa's remark was the line of the night for me.

[fitzcarraldo]

Emily used Ali as an excuse for the grave thing. It is sad she needed that time alone with him and freaking Shower stalked her in the cemetary.

[CloudySky]

Eh, I feel like I'm in a boat all by myself here. I didn't like Spencer and Caleb. I didn't find all them hot, honestly.

 

Yeah, me neither. That whole scene left me pretty meh. They have sizzling chemistry when they're talking/teasing and having that back and forth banter, but this whole romance angle seems too forced and it's leaving me cold. It doesn't help that Hanna/Jordan seems so fake. I don't know if it's Ashley Benson's expressed displeasure at this direction clouding my judgment of her acting, but it all seems so fake. Hanna/Caleb were the real deal and even though I never shipped them per se, they were like the parents in a sitcom: you expect them to always be together. Even when Caleb was written off for his own show, Haleb was still endgame.

 

I can't believe Shower Harvey is still a thing and they retconned their finale that LITERALLY JUST HAPPENED. If they were planning on doing this, why not at least have it be a little ambigious in the finale? There was no time for that whole scene to have happened! Wtf??? I mean, a brain bleed from Emily's punch or Emily's jewelry scratching her cornea leaving her half blind would have made more sense.

 

How are the producers not too embarrassed to leave their house after putting this garbage out there? Jennathing was campy fun, Shower is just horribly embarrassing.

 

Basically, we can't trust anything we see because the writers can decide at any time to invent whatever having happened in a scene too that we just didn't see at the time. And not even in flashback scenes that one could argue are tainted by the reteller, but just regular ol' live scenes the viewer is witnessing! If you thought it couldn't get worse than creative license or liberty or however they said it to explain a 10-year age difference...

[superman1204]

I feel for Pam too, but how did Emily keep her Mom away from her college graduation? I mean, the show is really asking us to suspend our disbelief that Pam would stay away from that. I guess we are supposed to believe she was too sad over losing her husband to attend but I side eye that. Emily really threw herself into this lie, didn't she. 

Emily's current story line is definitely an example of the writers making the girls tell bigger lies to make the reveals more "shocking".  I don't get why they did not just have Emily say she decided to take time off from school to cover up the fact she failed out, and since she failed out, her scholarship was gone so she was just trying to buy time until she could figure out a way to pay for college again.  Instead Emily faked a college graduate and was in the process of fake applying for medical school.  What was her end game, setup a fake medical practice?

[cuddlingcrowley]

I'm all for watching twenty-somethings struggling to get their shit together but Emily's storyline isn't resonating with me at all. To be fair I didn't even know selling your eggs was a thing and the way the show went about it just made it seem creepy and unhealthy, and not good creepy! It just feels like a storyline that will lead nowhere. Maybe "making bizarre choices and losing yourself" was never my struggle (yet...?) so I can't relate.

 

Also, I didn't buy Emily's bullshit about feeling good about helping someone. IMO, since her life is a mess what feels good is that she feels in control of something and feels like she has some sort of purpose, kinda what her draw for Sara was. For some people it's becoming obsessed with hitting the gym. But that's her just putting off dealing with the stuff she's gotta deal, imo.

 

At this point Aria dealing with her responsabilities with the publisher she works for and delivering the book Ezra was paid him to write, even if it means writing it herself, seems the most realistic storyline this show has got it going on for someone in their early twenties. And yes I know that isn't saying much, but at least, it's oddly enjoyable to watch. 

Edited January 30, 2016 by cuddlingcrowley

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I'm all for watching twenty-somethings struggling to get their shit together but Emily's storyline isn't resonating with me at all. To be fair I didn't even know selling your eggs was a thing and the way the show went about it just made it seem creepy and unhealthy, and not good creepy! It just feels like a storyline that will lead nowhere. Maybe "making bizarre choices and losing yourself" was never my struggle (yet...?) so I can't relate.

Also, I didn't buy Emily's bullshit about feeling good about helping someone. IMO, since her life is a mess what feels good is that she feels in control of something and feels like she has some sort of purpose, kinda what her draw for Sara was. For some people it's becoming obsessed with hitting the gym. But that's her just putting off dealing with the stuff she's gotta deal, imo.

Selling your eggs is definitely a thing, especially for girls in college/just out of college. There used to be ads in my college paper every week soliciting girls to sell their eggs for up to $20K (these places pay more depending on things that appeal to potential parents, like being tall, playing a varsity sport, going to a prestigious university, etc).

One of my friends did it a few times, mostly for the money but she also said she liked knowing that she was helping people who couldn't otherwise have children (and this was a girl I met while volunteering in college so it wasn't just some BS she was spewing to sound like a nice person).

Donating eggs is a lengthy process which is why it pays more than sperm donation.

Medication Administration for Egg Maturation and Care:

To prevent spontaneous ovulation, some doctors administer Lupron, or similar medication. At this point the donor will be instructed to stop taking birth control pills and begin taking Lupron. This medication is often given daily by a small injection just under the skin on the stomach. Ice or a local anesthetic may be used to numb the area for the injection. She may be required to take Lupron for approximately 14-21 days.

A woman normally develops and releases one egg per month during ovulation. About the same time the donor begins Lupron, she will begin taking injectable stimulation medications, called gonadotropins, once or twice daily for approximately 8 to 21 days prior to egg retrieval. They replace her natural follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH) to trigger a uniform stimulation which induces her ovaries to produce several mature eggs.

Medical personnel from the fertility clinic will instruct the donor in detail regarding her injections. Her dose may change based on her body’s response to the medication. Vaginal ultrasounds will track the number and size of her follicles and blood work will determine her hormone levels. These appointments can often be completed before work or school.

When the donor’s follicles are mature, she will be instructed to take the hCG injection. This medication may be combined with other medications depending on her doctor. This injection helps eggs mature, preparing them for retrieval. Egg retrieval occurs approximately 36 hours after her hCG injection.

Egg Retrieval:

The egg retrieval process is a generally painless procedure which takes about 20-30 minutes with about an hour recovery at the clinic. The donor will have intravenous sedation for comfort. The procedure to retrieve the eggs is called an oocyte (egg) aspiration, which is performed with an ultrasound guided needle passing from the upper vagina into each ovary.

After a brief recovery from the anesthesia, the donor will be able to go home. She must have a companion drive her home. She will rest for the remaining portion of the day. The next day the donor may be uncomfortable as well. She’ll also need to refrain from unprotected sexual intercourse until the completion of her next menstrual cycle, as she will be extremely fertile and unwanted pregnancy could occur.

[cuddlingcrowley]

ElectricBoogaloo, I appreciate the info. I wasn't actually doubting selling eggs was a thing or that the people who do it don't have valid reasons. I'm side-eyeing Emily's reasons especifically for doing it considering where she's at emmotionally and some of the patterns she has fallen into before in order to cope or not cope with hard times.

Edited January 30, 2016 by cuddlingcrowley

[lavenderpenguin]

Hee. There really is. I wonder if Emily made a fake diploma as well and sent it to her mom? Also, this means that Pam didn't fly out to see Emily's college graduation? I would think Pam Fields would never miss that. 

 

This seemed unrealistic to me as well. There's no way that Pam would've missed her daughter's graduation. 

 

But then why is Hanna engaged? I get that it's not a lightswitch, that you can't just turn off feelings, but then that's why you don't say yes. I don't care how big the diamond is, if she's not on board with one-and-done then she should decline. If Hanna is pining for Caleb while intending marriage with Jordan, then Hanna is easily at the worst she's ever been in this show. In S1 I thought she was vapid and selfish, but outside of wrecking a guy's car because she didn't care about his religious convictions she never seemed like she wanted to hurt anyone, or to do things that would directly hurt people she cared about. This would be hurtful, and it would be clearly hurtful, and if she doesn't care about hurting the man she's planning to marry, then why should Spencer care about hurting a friend she was close with years ago?

 

As far as Spencer knows or should expect, Hanna's past is the past. Yes, obviously it feels weird which is why she said something and didn't go there, but really it's just a crappy thing to put Spencer, Caleb and Jordan through if that's where her head is at. I'm ignoring the fact that she kinda-sorta manipulated a guy into lying to the police because no one cares about Lucas, but I'm not liking the full picture being painted of Hanna here.

 

I think it's a bit more complicated than that. Like you said, you can't turn feelings on and off, and it's certainly possible for Hanna to love Jordan, while still feeling uncomfortable with the idea of Spencer dating her ex. Putting myself in Hanna's shoes for a moment, there is one particular guy that I had very serious feelings for (he was the first guy I ever truly liked) a few years ago. I've moved on, I'm happy, and I'm definitely not pining for him... but I wouldn't be especially happy if one of my close friends started dating him. I don't want him back, but it would just be weird to have him hanging around... but as someone else's boyfriend. All sorts of awkward.

 

It's also uncomfortable given that Spencer and Hanna are close friends (regardless of time apart, they went through some serious shit together). It's weird to know that you're going to have to spend time with your ex because he's a package deal with a good friend now (and she will because they're all stuck in Rosewood now, which might be part of the reason that Hanna's itching to get out of there). I also think that no matter how 'over it' you might be, if you had a very intense relationship (as Hanna did with Caleb) and that person wasn't a piece of crap (e.g. you didn't break up because he was awful, cheating on you, etc.), then it's very easy to rekindle old feelings if you're being forced to hang out/see them more often than you would otherwise.

 

Me too. It is ridiculous on so many levels (the guilt over Sarah Harvey's burnt little hands, Spencer's tendency to go to Worst Case Possible right off the bat, Hanna erasing the tape and making Lucas lie for her) but I still love the girls and their friendship. Or what's left of it. The time jump made one thing clear: These girls are not so close as they used to. Which is normal and actually something I find interesting to watch. 

 

This. I kind of hope that they keep it that way, because it makes for more interesting interactions between the girls when they are not always thinking things through as a group. It's also realistic because these girls are now adults, have established their own lives, etc., so it would be strange for them to regress to consulting each other or getting approval over how to handle their business. Aria is a good example of this -- she's just been doing whatever the heck she wants and why not. 

Edited January 30, 2016 by lavenderpenguin

[mercfan3]

Right, I doubt Hanna knew she still had feelings for Caleb. It's likely she just didn't see him, feelings faded..she fell for another guy..and now Caleb is back in her life, and there's still some residual feelings. I don't think that makes her a crappy person. 

[Jack Shaftoe]

 

At this point Aria dealing with her responsabilities with the publisher she works for and delivering the book Ezra was paid him to write, even if it means writing it herself, seems the most realistic storyline this show has got it going on for someone in their early twenties.

 

It's only realistic in the sense that young people do very stupid things, IMO. If this were real life unless the people Aria works were complete amateurs, they would notice that somebody else wrote most of the book. It's not easy to emulate the style of the man who came up with the memorable phrase "gold falafel, as through ice." after all. Plus, in real life a writer would be pissed if his contact with the publishing house decided to finish his book herself without telling him. Well, unless the writer is writing just for the pay check and thinks the ghostwriter can pull it off but Ezra writes for his "art". So unless this whole thing blows spectacularly in Aria's face I wouldn't say it's realistic at all.

 

Speaking of unrealistic, what's with the lack of reaction from the parents regarding Charlotte's release and subsequent death? I would expect them to be livid when she was released and pleased that someone murdered her. And Spencer's parents would have pulled all kids of strings to prevent her release, especially considering how much they don't like the Di Laurentis family in general and how easy it would have been to portray this as rich people getting undeserved leniency thanks to bribes. Also, if Ashley wasn't written out of character she would have kicked Shower out of the hotel, rules be damned. Or at least poisoned her wine.

 

Speaking of wine and Ashley, Emily is lucky Ashley wasn't there to witness her wasting perfectly good wine or she would never enjoyed a sleepover at the Marin's beautiful house again.

Edited January 31, 2016 by Jack Shaftoe

[cuddlingcrowley]

It's only realistic in the sense that young people do very stupid things, IMO. (...) So unless this whole thing blows spectacularly in Aria's face I wouldn't say it's realistic at all.

 

 

I obviously don't actually expect anyone to pull of what Aria is doing for a number of reasons hence why I said "Yes I know that isn't much" in regards to being the most realistic storyline the show had going on right now. The fact that she obviously cares about her responsabilities to her job and seems the most unwilling to simply get sucked back into Rosewood's crazy resonates with me and is what I find realistic.

Edited January 31, 2016 by cuddlingcrowley

[Mabinogia]

Thinking about it, IDK if Aria isn't getting sucked back into Rosewood's crazy. She never really was part of the A storyline. She was all about Ezra And look at her now, doesn't give a shit about all the Charlotte stuff not because she's grown up but because she is, once again, all about Ezra. IDK why they bothered with a five year jump. Rosewood is fucked up enough to have allowed them to drink as minors and really that is the ONLY thing that seems any different at all. Well, and they now get to use modern tech since the show had pretty much caught up with real time I guess.

[cuddlingcrowley]

That's a good point, Mabinogia. Aria's crazy was always Ezra and girl jumped right into the deep end again. I'm also disappointed about the five year jump. There's very little change and the change that we were shown up until this point hasn't been interesting. The girls not being as close, their jobs + new love interests, Hanna. The big exception for me has been Spaleb.

 

Highschool felt like a whole other dimension after I graduated college even though I've been fortunate enough to keep most of my highschool friends and I consider myself a very consistent person, personality wise. Yet, the girls are still making the same choices they would have made in highschool. It's like they haven't learned anything.

Edited January 31, 2016 by cuddlingcrowley

[Jack Shaftoe]

 

I obviously don't actually expect anyone to pull of what Aria is doing for a number of reasons hence why I said "Yes I know that isn't much" in regards to being the most realistic storyline the show had going on right now. The fact that she obviously cares about her responsabilities to her job and seems the most unwilling to simply get sucked back into Rosewood's crazy resonates with me and is what I find realistic.

 

I know, I was just trying to point out that even the more realistic aspects of the show are usually not particularly realistic. Also, we still don't know how much Aria cares about her work responsibilities when they don't involve Ezra. The whole setup is so reminiscent of a bad fanfic - Aria gets assigned the task of contacting Ezra. How romantic, how serendipitous! I don't think the writers are interested in Aria's career as anything else but an environment where a protracted love triangle is going to take place.

 

And yes, I don't know why having the girls repeat the same stupid mistakes over and over is considered good drama. Sure, they need to make many mistakes for the show to last so long but at least come up with something new, dear writers, not a rehash of "The Liars destroy evidence that was not particularly damaging for them" or the ever popular "The Liars are sure X is a murderer despite no hard evidence whatsoever". It was already bad enough before the five year jump but now it's even worse.

Edited January 31, 2016 by Jack Shaftoe

[Mabinogia]

Really, what are the odds of Aria working for the publisher who publishes Ezra's books...well, book. Did he get her the job? Did she pick that publisher because she could work with Ezra? Do I care? Well, I know the answer to one of those questions. lol

 

I'm just surprised Hanna doesn't work for the designer who designed uniforms for wherever Caleb works. Or that Caleb doesn't do tech for the designer Hanna works for. Oh, wait, then we wouldn't get Spaleb. NVM.

 

You know the one "mystery" I don't care about? Well, even less than who killed Charlotte? Who Toby is building a house for.

[Preity]

I obviously don't actually expect anyone to pull of what Aria is doing for a number of reasons hence why I said "Yes I know that isn't much" in regards to being the most realistic storyline the show had going on right now. The fact that she obviously cares about her responsabilities to her job and seems the most unwilling to simply get sucked back into Rosewood's crazy resonates with me and is what I find realistic.

Aria doesn't do any of the stuff because of her job though, she isn't writing the book because of her job. She's doing it for and because of Ezra. His job/contract is on the line. If the publishers dropped Ezra, Aria would get a different author to worry about, I doubt she only has that job as long as Ezra is under contract. So once again it's all about Ezra in her life. His book might be good, but he could finish it later, get a new contract they or whatever. But stupid little Aria is obsessed with Ezra and the book he's writing about her so nothing else in her life matters anymore. Same old stuff all over again. And why she still feels like she needs to protect him, I honestly have no idea. He has always eben a grown man while she has always been childish, even if she always felt so mature. Now she can drink openly, but that's all that has changed.

[RachelKM]

You know the one "mystery" I don't care about? Well, even less than who killed Charlotte? Who Toby is building a house for.

Is it a mystery if no one is really even asking the question?  Even Spencer only showed some basic curiosity for about 20 min. 

 

I totally agree that it is ludicrous that Aria works for Ezra's publisher... and has been assigned to work with him.  But then, nothing about Ezzzzzzzria has ever made any sense.

[dwmckim]

 

You know the one "mystery" I don't care about? Well, even less than who killed Charlotte? Who Toby is building a house for.

I might care about this if the answer to that was Caleb.  But it won't be so more fluff for me.

 

The tv series has differed from the book series for a very long time with only the slightest nods to it at odd times.  The one thing i really liked about the books that the show really could have benefited from was how the PLLs & DiLaurentis family were pretty big national news items.  ("Pretty Little Liars" is the title the media ends up bestowing on the girls.)  And the complications of being public figures/spectacles often affected their lives as much as whatever was going with "A".

 

With the time jump, the PLL's have had "five A-free years" but even with them all leaving Rosewood, "A" being caught and locked away their lives during the offscreen years really never should have been that unimpacted by everything they went through prior.  Aside from the PTSD, it would have been interesting to see how even in being all in different states, the stigma of being "one of those Rosewood PA grils" affected their higher education/career paths.

 

And even if in the show, the whole events surrounding these girls and all the Rosewood murders/disappearances/scandals never really broke out into being major national news, the show really dropped the ball bigtime with nothing ultimately being done with all the work and research Ezra did with his true crime book.  Instead he published a non-related fiction novel.  All those manuscripts, boxes of secret intel, secrets he's privy to via stalking & interviews just all got pushed aside and he's never done anything with any of it?  That's the biggest Fail with the post A-reveal directions.  

 

Extending beyond that, remember how Alison early in the series would tell the girls (when they thought she dead and a hallucination/dream) that together the PLLs know far more about everything than they realized individually?  In the end, that didn't really ever pay off.  But yet if the *love interests* of the PLLs were to pool their resources, they'd be a considerable force of knowledge - what with Caleb's hacking skills and ability to track down information, Ezra's boxes of secrets and intel gleaned from book research/stalking, and Toby's position in the Rosewood PD (which itself has long been a source of connections with the show's mysteries in between Wilden, Garrett, and Holbrook having all worked there) - just think what an incredible force the Pretties' Love Lads could be.  (But of course the Heather Hogans of the world and everyone who views one of the show's central themes as feminine empowerment would have their brains explode if the strengths/effectiveness of the men overpowered that of the ladies...even if the trio of lads also included Mona in such a grouping.)  Again, the other two guys could have been valuable resources for Ezra's real-life crime book if he followed through on it but that's all just been a clean-slate/non-issue over the last five years.  We've also got former NAT Club members Jason and (by extension Melissa and Jenna) who in their own ways probably had a lot of knowledge of various secrets connected with the various events of the past six 1/2 seasons as well as Noel Kahn who probably has held on to a lot of unresolved intel.  Lucas probably knows a lot of stuff having been allied (willingly or via blackmail) with Mona pre and post A-Team - but even though he's "back" that doesn't seem to be going anywhere.

 

And one of the other major dropped balls with the time jump being handled the way it has is Melissa/Spencer's relationship.  During the last five years has Spencer never had a chance to talk with Melissa about everything she must have known about so much of the unresolved issues?  Never again broached the topic of the masks, what all she was "protecting Spencer from" before "it all started" (which seemed to go well beyond Melissa burying Bethany), her activities/relationships with Wilden or Jenna or Mona?

 

There's such a large disconnect between where the show should have gone with a time jump and what it's actually giving us.

[Mabinogia]

What a missed opportunity! I think it could have been fascinating to see how being famous would have affected the girls' lives. Even better, what if Ezra had published a book about the whole thing? If that is what made him a famous author. How would the girls react to him then? Would Aria still be trying to protect him if he'd made his fortune off of her misfortune?

 

So many very interesting stories they missed out on. Stupid Marlene! Pity she's more interested in shipping than telling good stories.

 

It is kind of odd to think that none of them have talked in the five years about things they will now be talking about for our benefit. That is the danger of a time jump. People questioning stuff like why haven't Spencer and Melissa talked about any of this shit?

 

Stupid. But oh, what could have been.

[superman1204]

Extending beyond that, remember how Alison early in the series would tell the girls (when they thought she dead and a hallucination/dream) that together the PLLs know far more about everything than they realized individually?  In the end, that didn't really ever pay off.  But yet if the *love interests* of the PLLs were to pool their resources, they'd be a considerable force of knowledge - what with Caleb's hacking skills and ability to track down information, Ezra's boxes of secrets and intel gleaned from book research/stalking, and Toby's position in the Rosewood PD (which itself has long been a source of connections with the show's mysteries in between Wilden, Garrett, and Holbrook having all worked there) - just think what an incredible force the Pretties' Love Lads could be.  (But of course the Heather Hogans of the world and everyone who views one of the show's central themes as feminine empowerment would have their brains explode if the strengths/effectiveness of the men overpowered that of the ladies...even if the trio of lads also included Mona in such a grouping.)  

When I read this I was thinking 'Wait what about Paige?', before realizing she is basically as useless as the Lairs.  So yeah, I guess in Rosewood, to get anything done you have either have to be a man or an evil women.  That explains why Alison has been so useless since she came back to life, she had to relinquish her ability to do anything proactive to be forgiven, but seriously for a show that tries to include feminist ideas, the writers really miss the mark on some story lines.

[cuddlingcrowley]

So many very interesting stories they missed out on. Stupid Marlene! Pity she's more interested in shipping than telling good stories.

 

 

During the first three seasons or so I was a very big defender of MK's writing because I always got the impression she cared a lot to deliver a good product. Season 6 has pretty much changed that perception. Either yet again she's busy with another project or she simply has grown too comfortable with PLL's success but there's a distinct lack of deph and inspiration to the writing. 

 

It used to be so much bolder in the first couple of seasons but since then the writers idea of bold is blowing shit up and introducing as many inappropriate love interests as it can. I don't know if it's the network putting pressure to focus on the ships but, imo, it has never been more than noticeable than now how restricted the writing has become.  With the five-year-jump the sky was the limit for where MK could take the girls and yet now it seems like she didn't think it through at all and just did it for convenience's sake. 

[Mabinogia]

I agree cuddlingcrowley. The first couple seasons I felt the show was on fire. Sure there was some crazy, and some dropped threads, though at that point we didn't know if maybe they would be resolved at some point. But some point came and went. The show had so much going for it. The girls have amazing chemistry, it had the great prankster A who at that point was menacing but didn't feel so over the top deadly. There was a good mystery there, great creepers like Jenna, Ian, Noel Kahn. The NAT club was interesting. Ali was fascinating.

 

Somehow, though, it all got shot to shit. I think it's probably a combination of Marlene getting comfortable with the success and thinking that success hinges on keeping the shippers happy.

 

Usually when a show does a time jump like this, it's a chance to reset things, get out of some really convoluted plots and back to what made the show great in the first place. I do think PLL needed a reset because it was getting far too ridiculous clinging to the played out A storyline. But nothing has really changed. They just replaced cool characters like Jenna with lame imitations like Shower. It's basically the same story. The girls feel guilty for something they didn't really mean to happen and are targeted because the victim feels like they are to blame. Only, we will find out once again that the victim (last time Jenna this time Shower) isn't the one doing all the bad shit. (Last time it was Charles/CC/Charlotte, this time it will probably be Mike who went away and comes back as Michelle, so traumatized by Mona dumping him that he became a girl in the hopes she would love him the way she seems to love Hanna. He will blame the Liars for Mona not loving him and sets out to hurt them. Don't tell me that doesn't make as much sense as Charles becoming Charlotte who then pretends to be CC, befriends her sister, makes out with her brother and then randomly torments her sister's friends because...).

 

I think the show did get too wrapped up in trying to shock the audience and get them talking on Twitter and whatever. Or she got pissed because we all solved the mysteries so she threw one in from left field which we also figured out actually because it seemed like the most ridiculous reveal on a show that was getting increasingly ridiculous. I remember people theorizing the whole CC/Charles thing before it was revealed. It just seemed to ludicrous for them to actually do. So I guess we were wrong about that. lol

[WhitneyWhit]

Troian has basically said the network dictates a lot, the Toby story was supposed to be much darker in her words and I got the feeling he wasn't supposed to go back to being good, but the network freaked out and made them change course.

 

Toby being A made so much sense and could have been interesting. I've thought about this way too much but instead of reverting back to being good, Toby stayed bad, (he had a reason to be pissed) until Spencer finds out, then he turns up murdered, Spencer (and the liars) are the suspects and another A begins torturing/framing them and this A is revealed to be Jessica. Since they seemed to want to do an unknown Di Laurentis child, Toby could have been Jessica's son as the result of an affair with Toby's father (hey, she did it before) refusing to raise another son that doesn't belong to him, Keith makes her give the baby away, and Toby's father "adopts" his own son, then Toby's mother finds out that she's raising the child of her husband's mistress and it sends her to Radley. Meanwhile, Wilden finds out that Toby is A and Toby tries to blackmail him into keeping quiet by threatening to reveal that he slept with underage Alison, to which Wilden kills him, then Jessica finds out and eventually offs Wilden.

[Jack Shaftoe]

 

Troian has basically said the network dictates a lot, the Toby story was supposed to be much darker in her words and I got the feeling he wasn't supposed to go back to being good, but the network freaked out and made them change course.

 

If I recall correctly, Troian said that the network vetoed Spencer being on the A team for longer, not Toby's story being darker in general. And frankly, I think the network suits were right about that, it was already silly enough that she got on the A team so easily, not learning anything while being in the team for quite some time would only add insult to injury. Also, it's not like they could have sneaked a major twist like TobiAs without the suits realizing it, so they must have gotten it approved first. Sure, it's possible that the network executives changed their minds later but in my opinion, Marlene always intending to "redeem" Toby is much more likely scenario. It's precisely the kind of convoluted twist she seems to favour. I doubt the network is so keen on redeeming pretty much every villain of importance, including almost universally hated characters like Sara.

 

Also, the show is dark enough. It already has way, way too many murders and murder attempts, considering the nonchalant reactions to those events of most characters. The last thing it needs is to become much darker, IMO. Making it a show about a would-be serial killer instead of one about a high school bully is one of the main reasons PLL is in such dire straits currently. Somebody mentioned the implausible media reactions to the events in the show and I have to agree - in real life the media would cover this crime spree extensively. The profile of the victims, the location, the sheer ingenuity of some of the crimes, the twists - it would be a major news story. Alison would be followed everywhere by journalists eager to know what she did when she was on the run (something the show apparently is never going to address), the judge that released Charlotte would be absolutely lambasted in most media while praised by other media, there would be endless debates on how much the Liars are victims and how guilty they are, etc. The writers want to have their cake and eat it too - A is becoming ever more dangerous and more and more people learn about A's crime spree but the reactions of the parents, the police and the general public are generally about the same as they were back in season one.

 

 

When I read this I was thinking 'Wait what about Paige?', before realizing she is basically as useless as the Lairs.  So yeah, I guess in Rosewood, to get anything done you have either have to be a man or an evil women.

 

What have the male characters achieved though? It took Caleb something like five and a half seasons to block the remote connections to the girls' laptops, despite knowing full well that A was a gifted hacker who spied on them. The less said about Officer Toby's investigative efforts, the better. Ezra managed the rare feat of installing all that surveillance equipment and yet failing to catch either Mona, Charlotte or any of their minion red-handed.

[rho]

Eh, I feel like I'm in a boat all by myself here. I didn't like Spencer and Caleb. I didn't find all them hot, honestly. Maybe because while far and away, I loved the Haleb out of this show but that's not what my discomfort or issue is, I honestly don't give a damn about the romantic entanglements of this show. That isn't why I watch. At the end of the day, I'm watching for the friendships with the girls. I will say however, given that the show has given me history on Haleb, my money is on Spencer and Caleb being a short time thing. Plus, I hate the idea of the girls all switching boyfriends now. They never have before, why start now show? But then again, I feel like everyone on the forums is leaving me behind in the dust. It's cool, I can take it. 

 

I'm a Haleb fan until the end. I was in the target audience when the books came out and I watched the show when I was in college. I remember dreading that they would write off Caleb quickly because he wasn't a character from the novels. Every time they send him away, I cringe but he always comes back because Haleb is the only normal fucking relationship on this show. Literally, he is the only significant other that doesn't play psychological mind games with the liars. If this were any other teen show on The CW, Spaleb would probably be steamy and forbidden, but this feels like a slap in the face to viewers.

 

During the first three seasons or so I was a very big defender of MK's writing because I always got the impression she cared a lot to deliver a good product. Season 6 has pretty much changed that perception. Either yet again she's busy with another project or she simply has grown too comfortable with PLL's success but there's a distinct lack of deph and inspiration to the writing. 

 

It used to be so much bolder in the first couple of seasons but since then the writers idea of bold is blowing shit up and introducing as many inappropriate love interests as it can. I don't know if it's the network putting pressure to focus on the ships but, imo, it has never been more than noticeable than now how restricted the writing has become.  With the five-year-jump the sky was the limit for where MK could take the girls and yet now it seems like she didn't think it through at all and just did it for convenience's sake. 

 

Following up on my Haleb feelings, I really think the show is underestimating their audience. I'm not sure if it's the showrunners or too much network involvement, but there is absolutely no growth. Like I said, I am prime target audience. I think I was a freshman in college when the show came out and everyone in my dorm would watch it together on our floor. Six years later, the show's viewers aren't teenagers anymore. Just like the cast was desperate to get more mature roles with the time jump, I think the rest of us have been waiting a long time for a more mature show. And it's just not happening.

 

But somehow, I can't stop watching. I did skip season 5B and waited until it came on Netflix but against my will, I keep getting dragged back in. Lord, help me!

[cuddlingcrowley]

I'm not sure if it's the showrunners or too much network involvement, but there is absolutely no growth. Like I said, I am prime target audience. I think I was a freshman in college when the show came out and everyone in my dorm would watch it together on our floor. Six years later, the show's viewers aren't teenagers anymore. Just like the cast was desperate to get more mature roles with the time jump, I think the rest of us have been waiting a long time for a more mature show. And it's just not happening.

But somehow, I can't stop watching. I did skip season 5B and waited until it came on Netflix but against my will, I keep getting dragged back in. Lord, help me!

 

 

 

Yeah, for the life of me I can't quit this show either but I'm just reaching the "wish I could quit" phase for the first time. I was also in college when it premiered and it feels like it has been with me through everything. I missed it terribly while it was gone but now that we're gettting 6-B I'm no longer as sure I'll stick to it to the end as I was, say, a season ago. Two of my closest friends used to be watch it with me but one of them has long given up on it, like on s4.

 

The show just isn't maturing says it all. I'd like to think a big part of the blame is the network's and unfortuntaly they're not as off when it comes to reading their audience as we might think. At least the audience that's a big presence in social media. The PLL fandom on tumblr is utterly and completely obsessed with the ships. Yes, they were pissed about the terrible Charlotte reveal but their reason for tunning in is very clear.

 

The big draw of the show for me was the characterization of the girls, which used to be so unique and on point, and the mystery. The later has completely lost me after the ChArlotte reveal (which is affecting my enjoyment more than I thought it would)and the former is solerly lacking. I like Spaleb but I'm not sure it's gonna be enough to keep me around. I predict next season I might do what I did with TVD after season 3 when it started sucking and just wait until the whole season is over to binge watch it.

 

But I don't see this show surviving beyond season 7. I truly don't. I know it's a dream job but I can only imagine how bored those actresses might be by now. And, I'm sorry, they're not getting any younger. They're already giving their best years to this show, as far as Hollywood standards go. I know it's a steady paycheck and that's nothing to sniff at but come on.

Edited February 2, 2016 by cuddlingcrowley

[jjjmoss]

Yeah, the main reasons to watch were the friendship among the leads and the mystery. But the mystery's been going downhill since MonA's great reveal back in the S2 finale, and the ladies don't really grow and change.

 

Post-show, I'm guessing the most successful will be Troian for being the most talented and Ashley for being the most charismatic and blondest.

[dwmckim]

I'm still in and probably will be til the end if for no other reason than a silly desire for satisfying payoffs to unresolved threads (i know, i know...) but now that "The Muppets" are returning with new episodes tomorrow, Tuesday's gonna be devoted to watching and typing about that and i probably won't get to the latest eps of PLL til the Wednesday or Thursday of the week.