Players in the People v OJ Simpson: Kathryn, Faye and Various Others

[zoeysmom]

To avoid bogging down episodes and character topics this may be used to express these RHOBH and their friends involvement in the trial of the century.

[Umbelina]

Thanks Zoeysmom!

 

Now RHBH is even bringing in ghosts of Beverly Hills Housewives, just to try to capitilize on the FX mini series coming up.  Meanwhile, Faye is brought back, and is once again getting paid because of her connection/exploitation of her "friend" Nicole. 

 

I hope Kathryn reams her.

 

Some of the Faye connection:

http://www.nytimes.com/1995/03/09/us/simpson-s-lawyer-hints-slayings-were-mistake-by-drug-dealers.html?pagewanted=all
 

 

LOS ANGELES, March 8— The chief defense lawyer and the chief police investigator in the O. J. Simpson case continued their seemingly endless fencing match today, delving into topics lik ethe rate at which ice cream melts and the murder methods used by Colombian drug lords.

 

The lawyer, Johnnie L. Cochran Jr., elaborated on his assertion that Nicole Brown Simpson and Ronald L. Goldman were not the victims of a jealous former husband but of irate drug dealers who had set out last June to kill one of Mrs. Simpson's friends -- one of their customers -- instead.

 

Continuing his effort to offer some plausible alternative to the prosecution's case, Mr. Cochran suggested that the very brutality of the killings indicated that the perpetrators were drug dealers out to collect a debt, and that the real target was Faye Resnick, who was living with Mrs. Simpson, and taking drugs, around the same time.

 

 

There's a reason Camille called her The Morally Corrupt Faye Resnick.  Much more at link.

Edited January 21, 2016 by Umbelina

[KFC]

I'll be curious to see how the Kathryn/Faye O.J. conversations unfold.

 

I agree, Umbelina. What Faye did is infinitely more predatory and disgusting to me than anything any of the other HWs have done on the show. Except for Taylor.

 

And calling her TMCFR is perhaps Camille's crowning moment on this show. Personally I don't think anything Faye could say on this show would ever rehab her image in my eyes, so I'm a little surprised the lure of more famewhoring outweighed common sense (and good taste, but that part surprises me less, heh).

Edited January 21, 2016 by KFC

[lunastartron]

Unfortunately, Camille never adequately articulated why exactly Kyle's defense of Faye's "tasteful spread" In Playboy was intellectually dishonest and disingenuously deflective. It's also something of a shame that Camille has since backed down on every decisive opinion she expressed during her time on the show, her (totally spot on) skepticism of Faye and Taylor included. As a tangential note, almost everyone close to Nicole Brown Simpson save for perhaps her sister Denise conducted themselves atrociously at one point or another during the trial. Her other sister Dominique sold topless photos of her to the Enquirer and her father did the same with private diaries to the tune of $100k. And yet Faye took the cake on the most extensively egregious behavior. Here's a clip of her performing on Larry King. She was actually quite beautiful back in the day: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9IwEORL_GE8

[ryebread]

Thanks, zm.  This will be interesting.  Like the trial, Thread of the Century. ;-)

 

I think Kathryn needs her own thread, though.  Because I already feel like I'm going to have a lot to say about her besides her involvement in the OJ storyline. And what if she goes more than one season? We'll want to have all her stuff from this season in one place, yes?

 

ETA:  Thanks, Umbellina.  There is indeed already a separate Kathryn thread.  My scrolling finger is lazy.  Didn't scroll down far enough.

Edited January 21, 2016 by ryebread

[snowblossom2]

I was in high school during the trial and remember watching the verdict come in during class. Could someone tell me how NB's affair with MA set OJ off if NB and OJ were divorced? Also wasn't she dating RG at the time? So she was dating RG and MA simultaneously?

[Umbelina]

Remember the last questions I asked. If you had just ended a 17-year relationship and it was over, you would feel down for a short period of time until you got your life on track. You wouldn't go kill your ex-wife, the mother of your children. O.J. Simpson didn't try to kill or didn't kill Nicole Brown Simpson when they got a divorce, when they went through whatever they went through when Faye Resnick moved in.

 

Faye even got a brief mention in Cochran's closing argument, maybe more, these are just excerpts.

http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/Simpson/cochranclose.html

 

Actually his whole closing argument is up on You Tube, but I can't stomach watching it.  This is part FOUR. 

I haven't been able to find a full print version of it, but it would be interesting, in a "word-search" way, for Faye, Marcus Allen (Kathryn's husband at the time), and drugs.  Most of his final argument, as I recall, was based on distrust of the police and racial issues.

Thanks, zm.  This will be interesting.  Like the trial, Thread of the Century. ;-)

 

I think Kathryn needs her own thread, though.  Because I already feel like I'm going to have a lot to say about her besides her involvement in the OJ storyline. And what if she goes more than one season? We'll want to have all her stuff from this season in one place, yes?

She has one Rye!

Edited January 21, 2016 by Umbelina

[zoeysmom]

I was in high school during the trial and remember watching the verdict come in during class. Could someone tell me how NB's affair with MA set OJ off if NB and OJ were divorced? Also wasn't she dating RG at the time? So she was dating RG and MA simultaneously?

According to witnesses-even Faye they had reconciled and then broken up again in April of 1994.  Here is a photo of the two of them and several now very famous faces at Easter in Cabo.. http://www.vanityfair.com/style/scandal/2014/06/sheila-weller-oj-simpson-murder  Check out a teenage Kim Kardashian.  I always thought the weak link in the prosecution's case is they provided no motive.  Yes he beat his wife but they needed a showing of recent behavior that would have set the wheels in motion.  Marcus Allen was summoned by OJ and asked to say he had an affair with Nicole. 

 

I look at it this way-regardless of whether or not Marcus and Nicole were banging it doesn't change the fact she apparently told others she was banging Marcus.  We will never know if she told OJ or not.

 

So the theory, which was never presented is that if OJ ever found out that Nicole was banging Marcus Allen he would kill her. 

[Almost 3000]

I was in high school during the trial and remember watching the verdict come in during class. Could someone tell me how NB's affair with MA set OJ off if NB and OJ were divorced? Also wasn't she dating RG at the time? So she was dating RG and MA simultaneously?

I don't think any of that is actuate but I'll let someone else do the point by point.

I remember watching coverage live and right before or at the beginning of the OJ car chase a newscaster asked about OJ's oldest son. There's a whole book written in that direction that I won't get into here but I always thought there was evidence that direction.

[Umbelina]

Marcus Allen denied it, Nicole is dead, is Faye is the only one who talked about the affair?  Because I don't really trust stoner chick all that much. 

[zoeysmom]

Thanks Zoeysmom!

 

Now RHBH is even bringing in ghosts of Beverly Hills Housewives, just to try to capitilize on the FX mini series coming up.  Meanwhile, Faye is brought back, and is once again getting paid because of her connection/exploitation of her "friend" Nicole. 

 

I hope Kathryn reams her.

 

Some of the Faye connection:

http://www.nytimes.com/1995/03/09/us/simpson-s-lawyer-hints-slayings-were-mistake-by-drug-dealers.html?pagewanted=all

 

 

There's a reason Camille called her The Morally Corrupt Faye Resnick.  Much more at link.

Understand the jury never heard any of this stuff.  It was interesting though.  You have to have a showing in California for a Plan B.

[motorcitymom65]

I've never thought there was any question that what Faye did was wrong - really, really wrong. I think she was a selfish druggie who did it to make money. I don't think she thought much about the consequences at the time. I also don't think she thought it would end up causing a wrinkle for the prosecution. I think she probably believed what most folks believed; that OJ killed Nicole and thus he would be found guilty. I don't think she intended to hurt the case.  I am a big believer in redemption, and as far as I know, Faye hasn't done anything scandal-worthy since she got clean. Should she just not exist anymore, because of something she did 20 years ago? There is no way that a large amount of people are not always going to think of Nicole when they think of Faye. The movie is coming out, and her name will be mentioned again. There is no getting around that fact and I guess I don't see how her being on this show really changes any of that. Then again, I didn't know or love Nicole, so her friends and family have every right to feel very differently. 

[zoeysmom]

I've never thought there was any question that what Faye did was wrong - really, really wrong. I think she was a selfish druggie who did it to make money. I don't think she thought much about the consequences at the time. I also don't think she thought it would end up causing a wrinkle for the prosecution. I think she probably believed what most folks believed; that OJ killed Nicole and thus he would be found guilty. I don't think she intended to hurt the case.  I am a big believer in redemption, and as far as I know, Faye hasn't done anything scandal-worthy since she got clean. Should she just not exist anymore, because of something she did 20 years ago? There is no way that a large amount of people are not always going to think of Nicole when they think of Faye. The movie is coming out, and her name will be mentioned again. There is no getting around that fact and I guess I don't see how her being on this show really changes any of that. Then again, I didn't know or love Nicole, so her friends and family have every right to feel very differently. 

I kind of feel the same way.   She got off the drugs and has stayed off them.  Good for her.  She seems to be friends with all the same people she was friends with 20 years ago so there must be some redeeming qualities to her. Faye and Taylor for that matter, do not have to tell their story for free.  Whoever they tell the story to gets paid.  Faye has said given more time she would have been more delicate.  The way I look at it -Faye wasn't writing a eulogy for Nicole, she was trying, the way she thought best, to bring attention to a violent murderer OJ Simpson, who murdered her friend. 

[GreatKazu]

I was in high school during the trial and remember watching the verdict come in during class. Could someone tell me how NB's affair with MA set OJ off if NB and OJ were divorced? Also wasn't she dating RG at the time? So she was dating RG and MA simultaneously?

This article might help to answer your question: http://www.cnn.com/US/9605/31/simpson/index.html

 

Ron Goldman was not Nicole's boyfriend. 

 

 

 

Football star Marcus Allen told lawyers Friday that O.J. Simpson called him from jail and asked him to lie about Allen's relationship with Simpson's ex-wife, Nicole Brown Simpson.

Lawyers questioned Allen under oath Friday in the wrongful death civil suit against Simpson filed by the families of Nicole Brown Simpson and Ronald Goldman.

Ms. Simpson and Goldman, her friend, were found stabbed to death outside Ms. Simpson's home on June 13, 1994. Simpson was acquitted last October of the murders.

Simpson had previously said that Allen confided to him that he had dated Nicole and had sex with her after the divorce. Simpson said the fact that he remained friends with Allen and even hosted his 1993 wedding at his Brentwood mansion showed that he was not a jealous ex-husband.

But Allen, a Heisman Trophy winner and a running back with NFL's Kansas City Chiefs, testified Friday that he never had a sexual relationship with O.J.'s former wife, and that he never told Simpson that he had, according to a lawyer present during the deposition.

During the deposition, Allen testified that Simpson called him while in jail for the murders and asked him to support the story about Allen's relationship with Nicole, the lawyer said.  Allen said he refused to lie for Simpson and instead ended his longtime friendship with him after that call, according to the lawyer. When Simpson tried to force Allen to testify at his murder trial last year, a Kansas judge upheld Allen's challenge of the subpoena.

Edited January 22, 2016 by GreatKazu

[Umbelina]

Wow.  Good for Marcus!

 

Did they mention on the show that Kathryn married Marcus in OJ's backyard?

 

It's weird, I can't find a single photo of the wedding, or indeed of any photos of them together.  Anyone with better search skills out there? 

 

http://gawker.com/the-real-housewives-of-beverly-hills-know-why-oj-did-it-1754012529

 

Gawker's picking it up now too, the RHBH/OJ connections.

 

This is funny:

“Faye’s best friend was Nicole Simpson,” Paris Hilton’s aunt Kyle Richards somberly explains to the camera in one of the clips above. “Faye wrote that Nicole had an affair with Marcus Allen while he was married to Kathryn and that is what set OJ off.”

 

Bolding mine.  Ha!  Well, in a horrible setting way of course.

 

Kyle's an idiot, the book was published after the murder, though obviously written in haste to grab that money.

Edited January 22, 2016 by Umbelina

[lunastartron]

Faye herself has maintained that she was sober during the trial as well as the composition and release of her book. Additionally, she not only penned one cash-grab but two. She spread her legs for Playboy in 1997, so she was still milking her friend's horrific slaying almost 3 years after the murder. I don't think she should "cease to exist" but the reality is that, as a forty-year-old, she made a years-long effort to profiteer off of a killing so brutal that Nicole was practically decapitated. She actively hindered prosecutorial efforts on behalf of the woman she professed to love so much - whether or not she believed that her testimony was integral to their success, she took the gamble. She pledged monetary support from her book proceeds to Sydney and Justin, none of which ever made it to them per most accounts. Telling Nicole's story and indicting OJ in the court of public perception does not necessitate soft-core erotica descriptions of Nicole's supposed lesbian experimentation with Faye. For all of the outrage over Lisa's talents of manipulation, Brandi's remorseless crudity and shameless attacks, and Kim's despicable abusiveness,I personally don't think any of their transgressions approach what Faye did. And if she and Taylor don't have to tell their story for free, that's a bald reality of pop culture but, per their own words, both maligned the memories of nominal loved ones who could not contradict their accounts not for a payday but for magnanimous, selfless interests of promoting domestic violence awareness. That is total bullshit.

[GreatKazu]

Wow.  Good for Marcus!

 

Yep. Good man. Just goes to show how despicable and evil O.J. really is. O.J. expecting a friend to lie under oath and say he had a sexual affair with Nicole in order to make himself look like an upstanding kinda guy who has no qualms about his best friend having sex with his ex and therefore, has no motive for wanting to kill her. 

 

 

Kyle's an idiot, the book was published after the murder, though obviously written in haste to grab that money.

I took that another way. I thought what Kyle was saying is, the rumor about Marcus having sex with Nicole was a rumor that had been going around before the murders occurred. By setting off O.J., she meant that was the beginning of O.J. going around stalking Nicole, spying on her, trying to catch her with another guy, all the things that was alleged to have happened by O.J. before Nicole was killed. 

Edited January 22, 2016 by GreatKazu

[lunastartron]

Speaking of Kim, I'll just add that I think she serves as a nice foil for the "just some bad decisions while addicted" premise since I don't think one could apply that summarization to Kim's offenses - none of which involved her authoring a tell-all enumerating Brandi or Kyle's sexual exploits after their deaths at the hands of the father of their children - even if she managed to get sober.

[GreatKazu]

 

I think the People were poorly represented and Gil Garcetti, the sitting District Attorney made a really poor choice forcing the issue of OJ trying on the glove.

Brought this from the last episode thread.

 

F. Lee Baily, O.J.'s attorney (one of them) said he tricked Darden into having Simpson try on the gloves. Darden denies the claim:

http://articles.philly.com/1996-02-15/living/25656885_1_christopher-darden-nicole-brown-simpson-gloves

 

 

 

POSTED: February 15, 1996

Lawyer F. Lee Bailey now says he tricked prosecutor Christopher Darden into asking O.J. Simpson to try on the bloody gloves at his murder trial.

``I tried them on, [defense attorney Robert] Shapiro tried them on, and we knew they would never fit O.J.,'' Bailey said in the interview published in the New York Daily News yesterday.

Knowing they wouldn't fit Simpson, who has ``hands like ham,'' Bailey said, he approached Darden on June 15 and taunted him with: ``If you don't ask O.J. to try on the gloves, I may!''

Shortly after, according to Bailey, Darden asked for the courtroom demo. Simpson struggled to pull on the gloves that prosecutors said he had dropped after killing his ex-wife, Nicole Brown Simpson, and Ron Goldman.

Through a spokesman, Darden said the conversation with Bailey never took place.

Edited January 22, 2016 by GreatKazu

[LIMOM]

The famous: "If it doesn't fit, you must acquit"

This was the turning point of the trial, IMO.

[Satchels of gold]

I'm really going to try to keep my opinions about Faye to myself this season. There is nothing I could add that hasn't been said but I will add that if my best friend was the VICTIM of a brutal homicide I would be burning her diaries not adding to the spectacle ( I know, I know tampering with evidence!) Also the fact that OJ is rotting in jail for an unrelated ,and frankly not so awful crime, just shows that arc of the universe bends towards justice (MLK, tm)

ETA I emphasized victim because if you are the perpetrator I will drive you to the police station and help you find an attorney but I won't be burning your journal.

Edited January 22, 2016 by nc socialworker

[zoeysmom]

Speaking of Kim, I'll just add that I think she serves as a nice foil for the "just some bad decisions while addicted" premise since I don't think one could apply that summarization to Kim's offenses - none of which involved her authoring a tell-all enumerating Brandi or Kyle's sexual exploits after their deaths at the hands of the father of their children - even if she managed to get sober.

Since neither Brandi or Kyle are dead nor murdered by their children's fathers it is really a nothing statement.  Brandi did write a very graphic book about the father of her children and his sex life and her sex life with him.  I guess I am lost at the difference between coming down on someone whether they are dead or alive. 

 

There seems to be a focus on Faye talking about being intimate with Nicole.  If Nicole were so private about her sexual prowess maybe she would not have had an affair with a married man.  It sounds like when people go gaga over some same sex kiss they are condemning the people involved.  Why?  Should not people feel free to have sex or kiss with other single people? I would think far more shameful to my children would be explaining how I had an affair with their father while he was still married to the mother of the their half-siblings.

[tenativelyyours]

I think the problem is that you ahve several people with agendas and none of them are trustworthy.  If Marcus didn't sleep with Nicole it still might be that he was picked by her as credible because he was known to be a cheating hound. So do you pick the druggie or the sleaze?  Or are both telling the truth.  Nicole was said to have a temper and it is quite possible she knew Marcus was a hound and threw him in OJ's face and Faye heard about it.

 

I think Faye suffers the fate of many who lie to promote themselves.  I know of two different people who on 9/11 knew of someone who knew someone who died.  Years later the story has conflated into one of them being near or going into the Tower when the first plane hit and the other claiming to have run when the first Tower collapsed (even though they live and work in NJ and I knew and socialized with them for a couple of years and never heard that once).

 

So I'm not sure one person in all this gets painted with a lies more brush.  Besides.  Just because Sarah Palin tells you tomorrow is Friday....doesn't mean it isn't.

[zoeysmom]

I'm really going to try to keep my opinions about Faye to myself this season. There is nothing I could add that hasn't been said but I will add that if my best friend was the VICTIM of a brutal homicide I would be burning her diaries not adding to the spectacle ( I know, I know tampering with evidence!) Also the fact that OJ is rotting in jail for an unrelated ,and frankly not so awful crime, just shows that arc of the universe bends towards justice (MLK, tm)

ETA I emphasized victim because if you are the perpetrator I will drive you to the police station and help you find an attorney but I won't be burning your journal.

So the ethical question is would you burn the diaries to hide a dead friend's secret or would you turn them over if it helped prosecute her murderer?  Is her privacy more valuable than seeking justice for her murder?

 

Your ETA sounds like the Robert Kardashian aspect of the case.  Didn't he have a garment bag? 

[lunastartron]

You say "nothing statement," I say "analogy." Personally, I find it instructive and conducive to critical thinking to reflect on whether I would find the same behavior by different parties equally objectionable or defensible. My point was and remains that the "Faye did some misguided things while on drugs" point of departure is convenient/morally relative (because Kim has been excoriated as irredeemable for much less) and, in any case, inaccurate (because Faye has contended that she was sober during the time she released and promoted the books, a span that went on for multiple years). And, yes, while I find maligning one's husband and/or airing salacious familiar dirty laundry publicly while all parties are in the robust prime of life, I think that both impugning and profiteering off of the tragic deaths of ostensible loved ones who aren't yet cold on the ground with stories that the subjects cannot respond to (there's one difference in the alive vs. dead dichotomy) is worse. Also, Brandi and Eddie were both public figures at the time of her book release and had been for some time. Nicole was more or less a private citizen and Faye was reportedly anonymous even within the scope of the Beverly Hill social milieu; Nicole's murder literally was the platform off of which Faye launched her pursuit of fame and cash - all while maintaining that she was doing it for the children, for domestic violence victims, for Nicole. And let's get real, in 1994, America was a homophobic nation - and it was and remains a society that values female sexual purity. The only reason for Faye to include the 'taboo' of same-sex Sapphic sexually charged interludes and disquisitions about Nicole, Marcus, and people she had never met (Kathryn) is a desire to capitalize on the tabloidesque cache of sordidness.

[snowblossom2]

According to witnesses-even Faye they had reconciled and then broken up again in April of 1994.  Here is a photo of the two of them and several now very famous faces at Easter in Cabo.. http://www.vanityfair.com/style/scandal/2014/06/sheila-weller-oj-simpson-murder  Check out a teenage Kim Kardashian.  I always thought the weak link in the prosecution's case is they provided no motive.  Yes he beat his wife but they needed a showing of recent behavior that would have set the wheels in motion.  Marcus Allen was summoned by OJ and asked to say he had an affair with Nicole. 

 

I look at it this way-regardless of whether or not Marcus and Nicole were banging it doesn't change the fact she apparently told others she was banging Marcus.  We will never know if she told OJ or not.

 

So the theory, which was never presented is that if OJ ever found out that Nicole was banging Marcus Allen he would kill her.

  

This article might help to answer your question: http://www.cnn.com/US/9605/31/simpson/index.html

 

Ron Goldman was not Nicole's boyfriend.

Thanks for the info and the links!

[motorcitymom65]

Speaking of Kim, I'll just add that I think she serves as a nice foil for the "just some bad decisions while addicted" premise since I don't think one could apply that summarization to Kim's offenses - none of which involved her authoring a tell-all enumerating Brandi or Kyle's sexual exploits after their deaths at the hands of the father of their children - even if she managed to get sober.

It's hard for me to say, if and until Kim ever gets sober (I'm not holding my breath).  My thoughts are that Kim has done far worse. I would imagine she has harmed her living children in far more horrible ways.  Their lives will never be the same in many ways because of the stuff she has put them through. Still, she would be forgiven by the people that love her if she really turned her life around.  Or course, everyone has different ideas of what constitutes a terrible thing. As I have said, I think that what Faye did was a terrible thing. Something that cannot be forgiven? Not in my book, unless there is lots more stuff out there I don't know about. For instance, in my book, cheating on your spouse is far more horrific. Fucking someone else when you are married (and a parent) is much more horrific than writing a book about someone. It just is, and yet I know many people who have done this, and I still invite them over for dinner and consider them my friends. 

[Umbelina]

It's odious.  Marcus denied it AND said his buddy OJ asked him to lie about it, and Nicole was dead, so she could hardly deny it.

 

It's funny, I couldn't STAND Faye from the beginning on RHBH, but honestly, until Camille delivered her true, iconic, and absolutely perfect line, that has stuck after all these years?  I didn't remember her name.  I knew some money grubbing drug addict bitch had written a book, and capitalized on her friend's absolutely horrific murder for years, but I didn't remember her name.

 

From Dominick Dunn's excellent writing about the trial for Vanity Fair, I knew about the various groups that became friendly with anyone associated with the trial, they wanted dirt, or at least an inside story.  Even Betsy Bloomingdale (friends with Nancy Reagan) had 'OJ parties' with the guest of the week.  The Kardashians/Kyle/Kathy/Faye and the rest had their own little groupie thing going to.  This isn't the article I'm thinking of, but it does talk about Faye a bit, and also how LA/BH/Hollywood reacted.  http://www.vanityfair.com/magazine/1995/02/dunne199502
 

“I don’t know Faye Resnick. I’ve never met her. She came into Nicole’s life in the last couple of years, but she covered it all in her book. It’s heartbreakingly true. I could have done without the blow-job story, but it was her life. Nicole was a woman with her own life.”

 

“The newspapers keep calling Faye Resnick a socialite. I’ve never seen her anywhere, have you?”

 

“Faye Resnick’s hiding out at Michael Viner and Deborah Raffin’s house in Stowe, Vermont. She and Mike Walker wrote the book in three weeks.”

 

 

Speaking of that, just when did Faye become Kyles "best friend?"  I'd love to know.  I'd bet it was around her new found celebrity courtesy of her nasty book, interviews, and the rest, and because her "best friend" died.

 

 

OJ was sleeping around too, who knows what their arrangement was about sex, or if it was revenge sex for being cheated on herself? 

 

 

Faye on Larry King

 

Faye on Geraldo

 

The Playboy photos are out there too, no idea what the interview said.  She was everywhere.

Edited January 22, 2016 by Umbelina

[WireWrap]

It's odious.  Marcus denied it AND said his buddy OJ asked him to lie about it, and Nicole was dead, so she could hardly deny it.

 

It's funny, I couldn't STAND Faye from the beginning on RHBH, but honestly, until Camille delivered her true, iconic, and absolutely perfect line, that has stuck after all these years?  I didn't remember her name.  I knew some money grubbing drug addict bitch had written a book, and capitalized on her friend's absolutely horrific murder for years, but I didn't remember her name.

 

From Dominick Dunn's excellent writing about the trial for Vanity Fair, I knew about the various groups that became friendly with anyone associated with the trial, they wanted dirt, or at least an inside story.  Even Betsy Bloomingdale (friends with Nancy Reagan) had 'OJ parties' with the guest of the week.  The Kardashians/Kyle/Kathy/Faye and the rest had their own little groupie thing going to.  This isn't the article I'm thinking of, but it does talk about Faye a bit, and also how LA/BH/Hollywood reacted.  http://www.vanityfair.com/magazine/1995/02/dunne199502

 

 

Speaking of that, just when did Faye become Kyles "best friend?"  I'd love to know.  I'd bet it was around her new found celebrity courtesy of her nasty book, interviews, and the rest, and because her "best friend" died.

 

 

OJ was sleeping around too, who knows what their arrangement was about sex, or if it was revenge sex for being cheated on herself? 

Kathy was 1 of those people holding OJ parties every week, she met and befriended FR and introduced her to her sisters. They all became very, very close friends.

[motorcitymom65]

It's odious.  Marcus denied it AND said his buddy OJ asked him to lie about it, and Nicole was dead, so she could hardly deny it.

 

It's funny, I couldn't STAND Faye from the beginning on RHBH, but honestly, until Camille delivered her true, iconic, and absolutely perfect line, that has stuck after all these years?  I didn't remember her name.  I knew some money grubbing drug addict bitch had written a book, and capitalized on her friend's absolutely horrific murder for years, but I didn't remember her name.

 

From Dominick Dunn's excellent writing about the trial for Vanity Fair, I knew about the various groups that became friendly with anyone associated with the trial, they wanted dirt, or at least an inside story.  Even Betsy Bloomingdale (friends with Nancy Reagan) had 'OJ parties' with the guest of the week.  The Kardashians/Kyle/Kathy/Faye and the rest had their own little groupie thing going to.  This isn't the article I'm thinking of, but it does talk about Faye a bit, and also how LA/BH/Hollywood reacted.  http://www.vanityfair.com/magazine/1995/02/dunne199502

 

 

Speaking of that, just when did Faye become Kyles "best friend?"  I'd love to know.  I'd bet it was around her new found celebrity courtesy of her nasty book, interviews, and the rest, and because her "best friend" died.

 

 

 

I'm not sure when/how their friendship started, just that both have said they have been friends for a long time. Faye is Godmother to one of Kyle's girls, but which one I'm not sure. 

 

I know others don't agree, but I've always admired the fact that Kyle didn't drop Faye when the drama first started in S3. Faye was the most hated person I can ever remember on any of these shows, and not for the stuff with OJ - for the stuff with Brandi. At one point she had to go into hiding because of the death threats, which even Lisa V and Brandi urged to stop. Folks hated her, but Kyle didn't toss her to the side. Faye was also close to Adrienne, as she had dated one of Adrienne's brother years before (or Adrienne dated one of her brothers, I cannot remember how it went). 

[RedheadZombie]

I was in high school during the trial and remember watching the verdict come in during class. Could someone tell me how NB's affair with MA set OJ off if NB and OJ were divorced? Also wasn't she dating RG at the time? So she was dating RG and MA simultaneously?

 

There was some ambiguity regarding Nicole and Ron Goldman.  They seemed to be acquaintances.  The night of the murders, Nicole's family had been at the restaurant where Ron worked.  When Nicole's family left, her mother's glasses had been left behind.  Nicole called up the restaurant, and Ron was delivering the glasses when he was murdered.  Where it gets a little murky - Nicole was presumedly opening the outer gate when she was murdered (she was found outside her front door, but within her gated entrance).  She was expecting Ron.  She was found dead in a black negligee.  A conclusion is that it was really a booty call.  It came up during the trial that once before OJ had stood outside and watched Nicole making out with a man on the couch.  Whether OJ was laying in wait and attacked when Ron entered the scene, or Ron came upon the scene and tried to save Nicole, depends on who you ask.  I'm pretty sure the Goldman family prefers the theory that Ron tried to save Nicole.

 

I thought the prosecution missed the opportunity to use jealousy of Ron as the motive.  OJ was already peeved because he felt slighted by the Brown family at Sydney's ballet recital earlier in the day.  I don't think it would impugn either Nicole's or Ron's character by suggesting it was a booty call.  They were both of age and single.  I never understood that missed opportunity.

 

Regarding F. Lee Bailey and the glove story.  I heard that recently and found it very detailed and believable.  The glove was laying out all day, and it would have been foolish if the defense didn't use the opportunity to ascertain how the glove fit.  Bailey taunted Darden with more subtlety than the sighted article upthread, and Darden certainly didn't have anyone's approval or permission to impulsively ask that OJ try it on.  Marcia Clark seemed clearly shocked when Darden went there.  The first rule in law is never ask a question you don't know the answer to.  If the DA had fed the line to Darden, I believe someone else on the prosecution team would have already checked out and tried on the gloves  Anyone should have figured out that the leather would have shrunk from the blood and dew, and it's almost impossible to slide anything over a hand in a latex glove.  It was an absolute disaster, many think that was the final blow in the case, and I've always felt for Darden (who seemed really close to the Goldman family).

 

I read the book written by Vincent Bugliosi (Manson prosecutor and author of Helter Skelter) on how Simpson should have been prosecuted.  One of his points was the prosecution was afraid to demonize OJ*.  The trial took something like nine months, and so many things went wrong that were outside of prosecution's control.  Marcia Clark - who I believe had a 100% win record at the time - had a somewhat unexpected custody battle going on regarding her children.  Her co-counsel had a heart attack and had to leave the case.  The jury took an almost immediate hate of Clark, and she was told to have a beauty makeover.  The lead detective turned out to be a closet racist.  And even though the DNA evidence was conclusive, Barry Scheck of Project Innocence was able to make the forensic team look like bumbling contaminating idiots.

 

*I don't cry sexism a lot, but I really don't think Bugliosi is able to understand that Marcia Clark wasn't able to stomp around and pound her fist on the table, etc.  He says Clark was too gentle in her closing argument.  He said she should have been calling OJ a murderer, a monster, etc.  But the jury hated her on site.  They thought she was a bitch the minute they clapped eyes on her, and acting tough would have made it worse.  I remember really feeling for her.  Women are simply judged differently, even back then, and even today.  In comparison, I watched court coverage of the Jody Arias murder trial, and I was disgusted by her prosecutor, Juan Martinez.  He was an angry little man.  He would stomp, and pace, and rock, and he reminded me of a bull when they paw at the ground before charging.  He was unnecessarily aggressive, showing absolute disgust and shouting at the witnesses - sometimes even his own.  I thought he was just a horrid nasty little man.  The world apparently loved him.  But Marcia Clark's a nasty bitch because she wasn't soft and attractive enough.  How do you win against that?

[zoeysmom]

There was some ambiguity regarding Nicole and Ron Goldman.  They seemed to be acquaintances.  The night of the murders, Nicole's family had been at the restaurant where Ron worked.  When Nicole's family left, her mother's glasses had been left behind.  Nicole called up the restaurant, and Ron was delivering the glasses when he was murdered.  Where it gets a little murky - Nicole was presumedly opening the outer gate when she was murdered (she was found outside her front door, but within her gated entrance).  She was expecting Ron.  She was found dead in a black negligee.  A conclusion is that it was really a booty call.  It came up during the trial that once before OJ had stood outside and watched Nicole making out with a man on the couch.  Whether OJ was laying in wait and attacked when Ron entered the scene, or Ron came upon the scene and tried to save Nicole, depends on who you ask.  I'm pretty sure the Goldman family prefers the theory that Ron tried to save Nicole.

 

I thought the prosecution missed the opportunity to use jealousy of Ron as the motive.  OJ was already peeved because he felt slighted by the Brown family at Sydney's ballet recital earlier in the day.  I don't think it would impugn either Nicole's or Ron's character by suggesting it was a booty call.  They were both of age and single.  I never understood that missed opportunity.

 

Regarding F. Lee Bailey and the glove story.  I heard that recently and found it very detailed and believable.  The glove was laying out all day, and it would have been foolish if the defense didn't use the opportunity to ascertain how the glove fit.  Bailey taunted Darden with more subtlety than the sighted article upthread, and Darden certainly didn't have anyone's approval or permission to impulsively ask that OJ try it on.  Marcia Clark seemed clearly shocked when Darden went there.  The first rule in law is never ask a question you don't know the answer to.  If the DA had fed the line to Darden, I believe someone else on the prosecution team would have already checked out and tried on the gloves  Anyone should have figured out that the leather would have shrunk from the blood and dew, and it's almost impossible to slide anything over a hand in a latex glove.  It was an absolute disaster, many think that was the final blow in the case, and I've always felt for Darden (who seemed really close to the Goldman family).

 

I read the book written by Vincent Bugliosi (Manson prosecutor and author of Helter Skelter) on how Simpson should have been prosecuted.  One of his points was the prosecution was afraid to demonize OJ*.  The trial took something like nine months, and so many things went wrong that were outside of prosecution's control.  Marcia Clark - who I believe had a 100% win record at the time - had a somewhat unexpected custody battle going on regarding her children.  Her co-counsel had a heart attack and had to leave the case.  The jury took an almost immediate hate of Clark, and she was told to have a beauty makeover.  The lead detective turned out to be a closet racist.  And even though the DNA evidence was conclusive, Barry Scheck of Project Innocence was able to make the forensic team look like bumbling contaminating idiots.

 

*I don't cry sexism a lot, but I really don't think Bugliosi is able to understand that Marcia Clark wasn't able to stomp around and pound her fist on the table, etc.  He says Clark was too gentle in her closing argument.  He said she should have been calling OJ a murderer, a monster, etc.  But the jury hated her on site.  They thought she was a bitch the minute they clapped eyes on her, and acting tough would have made it worse.  I remember really feeling for her.  Women are simply judged differently, even back then, and even today.  In comparison, I watched court coverage of the Jody Arias murder trial, and I was disgusted by her prosecutor, Juan Martinez.  He was an angry little man.  He would stomp, and pace, and rock, and he reminded me of a bull when they paw at the ground before charging.  He was unnecessarily aggressive, showing absolute disgust and shouting at the witnesses - sometimes even his own.  I thought he was just a horrid nasty little man.  The world apparently loved him.  But Marcia Clark's a nasty bitch because she wasn't soft and attractive enough.  How do you win against that?

Here is a story about Marcia getting mad at a witness who saw OJ near Nicole's home at the time of the murders. http://www.apnewsarchive.com/1994/Disgraced-Witness-Claims-She-Had-Approval-to-Speak-to-Hard-Copy-/id-c65b308843ac5b15cc82b3f32546797aThere are some notes at the bottom regarding OJ watching Nicole with a boyfriend (creepy).  The witness gave and was paid for an interview.  It seemed to be a reoccurring theme throughout the trial.  A trial where literally hundreds of thousands of dollars were paid to expert witnesses. 

 

I agree that OJ needed to be demonized.  I think the case lack a present motive for the murder.  It sounded to me like when Nicole cut him off in April he was set on revenge.  I don't think Ron was making a booty call.  It sounded more like OJ drew Nicole out and Ron came upon the horrific act.

 

Are there any juror statements that they or any of them hated Marcia on sight?  That seems extreme.

 

After Marcia Clark's book came out a very angry Rockne Harmon (a prosecution attorney hired to delve into the DNA portion of the evidence)was on a TV show and mentioned she and Chris Darden had been sleeping together during the trial and passing very naughty notes back and forth during the trial.  So I don't think Marcia used good judgment. 

 

I do think Darden got screwed in the glove situation. 

[RedheadZombie]

Are there any juror statements that they or any of them hated Marcia on sight?  That seems extreme.

 

 

Well, it's probably a bit of an exaggeration.  I'm sure it was sight and sound.  She quickly had a complete overhaul of her hair and makeup.  I don't remember if her wardrobe changed.  I really think that's why she softened up in her closing, too. 

[ryebread]

Her book and what was contained within never made it to the jury so it could not have possibly muddied the waters. 

 

But it did!

 

https://books.google.com/books?id=NNvZ_qwIxJ4C&pg=PT132&lpg=PT132&dq=faye+resnick's+book+effects+on+Simpson+trial&source=bl&ots=FXXxpL5eA8&sig=8mu2Go23ovgWO9pe62OAu50yxLw&hl=en&sa=X#v=onepage&q=faye%20resnick's%20book%20effects%20on%20Simpson%20trial&f=false

 

There was no victim bashing-the jury heard the voice of the victim calling 911 and calling OJ a batterer.

 

There was absolutely victim bashing.

[lunastartron]

Nicole was found dead on the walkway to her front door with clean bare feet, suggesting she was incapacitated before Goldman and any actual blood was shed (because otherwise she'd have it on said feet). Goldman was slain off the walkway and basically in the corner of the fence, as if his path of retreat had been cut off. The forensic evidence pointed to him interrupting the attack after Nicole had been downed. According to Toobin's book, his male friends maintained that Goldman had always insisted that his friendship with Nicole was platonic.

[zoeysmom]

But it did!

 

https://books.google.com/books?id=NNvZ_qwIxJ4C&pg=PT132&lpg=PT132&dq=faye+resnick's+book+effects+on+Simpson+trial&source=bl&ots=FXXxpL5eA8&sig=8mu2Go23ovgWO9pe62OAu50yxLw&hl=en&sa=X#v=onepage&q=faye%20resnick's%20book%20effects%20on%20Simpson%20trial&f=false

 

 

There was absolutely victim bashing.

It was never entered into evidence -that is what I mean by going to the jury. Just like the drug dealer theory-discussed in court but outside the presence of the jury.  Interesting comments by Shapiro.  His concern was that Faye's book would deprive his client of a fair trial.   I loved the idea that they could continue the trial for one year and the press would die down.  Right.  They were paid to come with these ideas.

 

Shapiro said they never intended to bash the victim.  The defense didn't bash and the prosecution didn't bash.  Again I am talking about what went to the jury. I think  Shapiro overstated what Faye said in the book. IIRC there were about 9 million side bars and entire days when the jury wasn't in the courtroom while the parties argued procedural and evidentiary matters.  So although things were discussed they weren't part of the jury's deliberation.

[AmyFarrahFowler]

I kind of feel the same way.   She got off the drugs and has stayed off them.  Good for her.  She seems to be friends with all the same people she was friends with 20 years ago so there must be some redeeming qualities to her. Faye and Taylor for that matter, do not have to tell their story for free.  Whoever they tell the story to gets paid.  Faye has said given more time she would have been more delicate.  The way I look at it -Faye wasn't writing a eulogy for Nicole, she was trying, the way she thought best, to bring attention to a violent murderer OJ Simpson, who murdered her friend. 

Well put. I appreciate being shown that perspective. It has somewhat changed my opinion of Faye and the situation. 

[lunastartron]

From Toobin, The Run of His Life, page 275 in a passage about Johnny Cochran's opening statements during the trial: "Cochran then regaled the jury with tales of Nicole's fast life . . . ran with a catalogue of her sexual exploits. Sex on a couch with Keith Zlomsowitch while the children slept upstairs . . . Sex with one of Simpson's best friends . . . One man 'sitting astride Mis Nicole Brown Simpson, giving her a massage or something in her shoulders.' 'Miss Nicole Brown Simpson came over to Rockingham house and said she had found a boyfriend, somebody different than Keith.' But with these examples, Cochran was just warming up for his main point about Nicole's sordid personal life - that the sinister figure of Faye Resnick was at the center of it. 'Let me say this about Faye Resnick,' Cochran said gravely. 'They ran in this circle out in Brentwood. And when she was put out on June third . . . she then moved over and lived with Nicole Brown Simpson. Because they were friends, they would go out at night. The evidence will be these ladies would go out two, three, four nights a week and stay out until five o'clock in the morning. Nobody was controlling these women. They go out dancing, they would do whatever they would do, and we know that Faye Resnick was using drugs during this period of time.' Cochran then said Faye's drug problem got so bad that on June 8, her ex-boyfriend and ex-husband forced her to enter a drug treatment facility. 'One of the people that called Miss Nicole Brown Simpson on the night of June 12, perhaps after nine o'clock, that particular night, from this drug treatment facility. We will be talking about her role in this whole drama.'"

[lunastartron]

Later, Cochran questions co-lead Detective Tom Lange about Resnick in order to establish that Resnick was living with Nicole and remind the jury about "her role in this whole drama." "But Cochran did not want to call Resnick as a defense witness. She loathed Simpson, thought he was guilty, and asserted that OJ had told her he wanted to kill Nicole. Cochran couldn't call her as a witness to tell some things (that she had moved in with Nicole) but not others. So Cochran tried to get his desired sliver of the story through Lange." This precipitates a prosecutorial blowup over hearsay and Darden is almost formally charged with contempt.

[lunastartron]

The initial vote was 10-2 for acquittal. Topics discussed during deliberation included: why didn't OJ have bruises on his body if Goldman had battered hands, the fit of the glove, one white juror expressing outrage at Cochran's exhortation to 'send a message to the LAPD,' one black juror doing the same over the her belief that 'they were out to get him from the beginning' and only one reference to blood/DNA. The jury requested a read-back of testimony from Allan Park, a limousine driver who drove OJ to LAX after 10 PM to catch a flight to Chicago. Then they acquitted. Gina Roxborough said "I believed from the beginning that he was innocent" after the trial. Lon Cryer gave OJ a raised fist salute at the verdict reading. Carrie Bess said "we got to protect our own" to the other jurors during the same period. Jury selection was an undeniable factor in the prosecution's loss, imo, and, if accurate, the contention that DNA/blood were only mentioned briefly in the very brief deliberation illustrates the relative irrelevance of that evidence to the verdict.

[suomi]

Nicole hadn't been home a real long time before the deed. True, there was water with bath oil in her tub and candles were/had been burning. But she was murdered in the short little black dress she wore to Sydney's dance recital, the LBD which earned the stinkeye from OJ that evening. Which I think she wore because it looked good and also to say "Fuck You." Foolhardy, perhaps, but not illegal. First thing that pissed OJ off. Actually, second thing, because the first was that his gf didn't attend the recital with him. Then, third thing, he was pissed that he was not invited to sit with the family at the recital. Guys like him - bullies, batterers - need to be in charge. He probably would have refused if they invited him to sit with them, but he needed to be asked. And he wasn't, and Nicole looked foxy in that little dress. Then, fourth thing, he wasn't invited to dinner with them. Divorced or not, HIS pussy, HIS vagina was dissing him, in public. This was purely a narcissist fueled by jealousy and rage committing domestic violence and the DAs fucked up by not sticking to those simple facts. 

 

OJ lured her outside the condo somehow, not even knowing that she was expecting Ron Goldman. There were some serious stab wounds in her neck and scalp and one hard blow which knocked her out. We'll never know for sure if that was delivered when Ron showed up but I think it was, because OJ needed to immobilize her while he dealt with Ron who, WTF, had just appeared! One neighbor heard a man say "Hey, hey, hey!" which Kim Goldman said was one of Ron's common phrases. OJ backed Ron into a space about the size of a telephone booth and, after making opportunistic stabs anywhere he could, stabbed him where it mattered. With Ron either dead or dying but clearly no longer a threat OJ returned to Nicole, placed his foot on her back, grabbed her by her hair, yanked her head back to expose her throat, and nearly decapitated her with that fucking knife.

 

Remember those "ugly ass shoes" he denied owning, the Bruno Maglis that a sports photog later proved OJ wore quite often in that time frame? The importance of those shoes is not only that there were bloody Bruno Magli shoe prints on the Bundy condo sidewalk - there was also one on the back of the LBD that Nicole was murdered in, with a corresponding abrasion on her back. The time frame was another issue, with the defense tightening it and the prosecution loosening it. The defense loved the couple walking home from a date because they saw nothing when they strolled by on the sidewalk. But (ghoul that I am) I was there just a few weeks later and, from the sidewalk, the spot where the bodies were located was barely visible if you were looking for it (Nicole) and not visible if you were looking for it (Ron). Let alone if you were just moseying along the sidewalk while not surveilling the shadows in your peripheral vision.

 

Then there's the witness OJ nearly crashed into while coming from Bundy at the exact time in question, who fucked up and sold her story before the DAs could use her testimony. Then there's the gf, Paula Barbieri, who said that everyone paid rapt attention when OJ struggled to get that glove on his hand - but no one mentioned how easily it slipped off when he relaxed his hand while removing it. Fuhrman wouldn't plant evidence when he didn't yet know OJ's alibi for that night. He could have been at some function with 1000 witnesses. Fuhrman was wearing a white shirt with slacks (and no jacket) that night/morning so, what? He took the chance that popular public figure OJ had zero witnesses and smuggled the bloody glove in his sock? And no one saw him and he left no DNA?

 

Does ANY of this keep Faye Resnick up at night, or has it ever? She hung Nicole out to dry by sharing what she did, and she demonstrated not one tiny sliver of class or style. Faye did Nothing to help Nicole's case but Faye did Plenty to help herself. Decorate this, Bitch.

[LIMOM]

Like times a million.

Faye was and is an opportunistic thing.

So some defends her and say that she has friends.

Even murderers have friends and supporters.

And not for nothing, the group of people that she hangs out with value money, and fame more than anything, IMO.

The trial and the way the media portrayed and the Justice System treated both victims changed my views on life.

I became jaded.

I sometimes think about Nicole's two children and wonder how they could have been sent living with their father and how they cope with the loss of their motherin their lives.

I also wonder how Nicole's parent and siblings go thru their days...

And I applaud Ron's family for never letting up on OJ.

Nicole hadn't been home a real long time before the deed. True, there was water with bath oil in her tub and candles were/had been burning. But she was murdered in the short little black dress she wore to Sydney's dance recital, the LBD which earned the stinkeye from OJ that evening. Which I think she wore because it looked good and also to say "Fuck You." Foolhardy, perhaps, but not illegal. First thing that pissed OJ off. Actually, second thing, because the first was that his gf didn't attend the recital with him. Then, third thing, he was pissed that he was not invited to sit with the family at the recital. Guys like him - bullies, batterers - need to be in charge. He probably would have refused if they invited him to sit with them, but he needed to be asked. And he wasn't, and Nicole looked foxy in that little dress. Then, fourth thing, he wasn't invited to dinner with them. Divorced or not, HIS pussy, HIS vagina was dissing him, in public. This was purely a narcissist fueled by jealousy and rage committing domestic violence and the DAs fucked up by not sticking to those simple facts.

OJ lured her outside the condo somehow, not even knowing that she was expecting Ron Goldman. There were some serious stab wounds in her neck and scalp and one hard blow which knocked her out. We'll never know for sure if that was delivered when Ron showed up but I think it was, because OJ needed to immobilize her while he dealt with Ron who, WTF, had just appeared! One neighbor heard a man say "Hey, hey, hey!" which Kim Goldman said was one of Ron's common phrases. OJ backed Ron into a space about the size of a telephone booth and, after making opportunistic stabs anywhere he could, stabbed him where it mattered. With Ron either dead or dying but clearly no longer a threat OJ returned to Nicole, placed his foot on her back, grabbed her by her hair, yanked her head back to expose her throat, and nearly decapitated her with that fucking knife.

Remember those "ugly ass shoes" he denied owning, the Bruno Maglis that a sports photog later proved OJ wore quite often in that time frame? The importance of those shoes is not only that there were bloody Bruno Magli shoe prints on the Bundy condo sidewalk - there was also one on the back of the LBD that Nicole was murdered in, with a corresponding abrasion on her back. The time frame was another issue, with the defense tightening it and the prosecution loosening it. The defense loved the couple walking home from a date because they saw nothing when they strolled by on the sidewalk. But (ghoul that I am) I was there just a few weeks later and, from the sidewalk, the spot where the bodies were located was barely visible if you were looking for it (Nicole) and not visible if you were looking for it (Ron). Let alone if you were just moseying along the sidewalk while not surveilling the shadows in your peripheral vision.

Then there's the witness OJ nearly crashed into while coming from Bundy at the exact time in question, who fucked up and sold her story before the DAs could use her testimony. Then there's the gf, Paula Barbieri, who said that everyone paid rapt attention when OJ struggled to get that glove on his hand - but no one mentioned how easily it slipped off when he relaxed his hand while removing it. Fuhrman wouldn't plant evidence when he didn't yet know OJ's alibi for that night. He could have been at some function with 1000 witnesses. Fuhrman was wearing a white shirt with slacks (and no jacket) that night/morning so, what? He took the chance that popular public figure OJ had zero witnesses and smuggled the bloody glove in his sock? And no one saw him and he left no DNA?

Does ANY of this keep Faye Resnick up at night, or has it ever? She hung Nicole out to dry by sharing what she did, and she demonstrated not one tiny sliver of class or style. Faye did Nothing to help Nicole's case but Faye did Plenty to help herself. Decorate this, Bitch.

Like times a million.

Faye was and is an opportunistic thing.

So some defends her and say that she has friends.

Even murderers have friends and supporters.

And not for nothing, the group of people that she hangs out with value money, and fame more than anything, IMO.

The trial and the way the media portrayed Nicole and Ron and the way the Justice System treated both victims changed my views on life.

I became jaded.

I sometimes think about Nicole's two children and wonder how they could have been sent living with their father and how they cope with the loss of their motherin their lives.

I also wonder how Nicole's parent and siblings go thru their days...

And I applaud Ron's family for never letting up on OJ.

Edited January 22, 2016 by LIMOM

[Pollock]

As a foreigner, I have of course heard of this case but never really got deeper than a few jokes or reference on tv shows I watch. Is there a good documentary that you all recommand for this case please? Like The Staircase or Making a Murderer ? A real good one?

I'm not counting the Murphy's tv show which is coming a little bit later this year as a documentary. Maybe he will do a good job but I would prefer some things with actual footag, that kind of things!

 

ETA: Grammar etc.

Edited January 22, 2016 by Pollock

[LIMOM]

As a foreigner, I have of course heard of this case but never really got deeper than a few jokes or reference on tv shows I watch. Is there a good documentary that you all recommand for this case please? Like The Staircase or Making a Murderer ? A real good one?

I'm not counting the Murphy's tv show which is coming a little bit later this year as a documentary. Maybe he will do a good job but I would prefer some things with actual footag, that kind of things!

 

ETA: Grammar etc.

Ofra Bikel's doc, was great.

I think it was called innocence lost.

[zoeysmom]

From Toobin, The Run of His Life, page 275 in a passage about Johnny Cochran's opening statements during the trial: "Cochran then regaled the jury with tales of Nicole's fast life . . . ran with a catalogue of her sexual exploits. Sex on a couch with Keith Zlomsowitch while the children slept upstairs . . . Sex with one of Simpson's best friends . . . One man 'sitting astride Mis Nicole Brown Simpson, giving her a massage or something in her shoulders.' 'Miss Nicole Brown Simpson came over to Rockingham house and said she had found a boyfriend, somebody different than Keith.' But with these examples, Cochran was just warming up for his main point about Nicole's sordid personal life - that the sinister figure of Faye Resnick was at the center of it. 'Let me say this about Faye Resnick,' Cochran said gravely. 'They ran in this circle out in Brentwood. And when she was put out on June third . . . she then moved over and lived with Nicole Brown Simpson. Because they were friends, they would go out at night. The evidence will be these ladies would go out two, three, four nights a week and stay out until five o'clock in the morning. Nobody was controlling these women. They go out dancing, they would do whatever they would do, and we know that Faye Resnick was using drugs during this period of time.' Cochran then said Faye's drug problem got so bad that on June 8, her ex-boyfriend and ex-husband forced her to enter a drug treatment facility. 'One of the people that called Miss Nicole Brown Simpson on the night of June 12, perhaps after nine o'clock, that particular night, from this drug treatment facility. We will be talking about her role in this whole drama.'"

Opening statements, closing arguments, questions posed by attorneys to witnesses are not evidence and the jury is instructed to not consider the statements or arguments or questions as evidence:  https://www.justia.com/trials-litigation/docs/caci/5000/5002.html

 

I will say if the prosecution, and apparently the defense thought Faye was a witness harmful to their case, why the hell did the prosecution put Mark Fuhrman on the stand?  They had to stipulate that he made many racist comments-a theme to replayed over and over.  He probably did more harm than any of the defense witnesses ever could.  I doubt the defense would have introduced the glove.  There was significant blood evidence, eyewitness available to the prosecution and they either didn't use or relied to heavily on the glove.

 

Rather strange that Shapiro has been quoted as saying the defense was never going to impugn the victim and Johnny Cochran opened with this statement?  I would say at one point the defense was keen on going after Nicole's lifestyle.  Maybe Mr. Shapiro should pay attention to what was going on in the courtroom.

 

Nicole's lifestyle was not based solely on what Faye offered up-she had lived a life before Faye Resnick and during her 17 year relationship with OJ that had witnesses.  I will say I think it was a wise idea the defense did not call Faye.  Or put witnesses on the stand to tear her down.

 

Some examples have played out here-one poster described Nicole as wearing a negligee and waiting for Ron Goldman for a booty call.  Another description is that she was wearing the same dress (she had been video taped in earlier in the evening) she wore to the restaurant.  I am going to go with the dress because it was documented by the medical examiner.

 

And after promising to detail Faye Resnick's role in the drama the Court didn't allow it.  Faye's "crime" so to speak was writing a book detailing her life with Nicole.  Nothing in the book, obviously written post mortem, contributed to the murder of Nicole Simpson.

[suomi]

Because of the pain and terror involved in Nicole's death and the fact that her very young children lost their mother, I think that it was the perfect time for Faye to ask herself three questions re the book: Is it true? Is it kind? Is it necessary?

[suomi]

As a foreigner, I have of course heard of this case but never really got deeper than a few jokes or reference on tv shows I watch. Is there a good documentary that you all recommand for this case please? Like The Staircase or Making a Murderer ? A real good one?

I'm not counting the Murphy's tv show which is coming a little bit later this year as a documentary. Maybe he will do a good job but I would prefer some things with actual footag, that kind of things!

 

ETA: Grammar etc.

Are you at all interested in reading about it? If so, I recommend the essays by writer (and movie producer) Dominick Dunne. His daughter, Dominique, appeared in the first Poltergeist movie (among other roles) and was murdered by her estranged boyfriend. Which is how Mr Dunne became interested in crime and punishment. I'm not much for fiction (altho I have read most of his novels) but his essays are quite good and many of them appeared in Vanity Fair magazine over the years. His book Justice: Crimes, Trials and Punishments contains nine essays re OJ's life, crime and trial and also a couple re the murder of Dominique and the trial of her murderer. Mr Dunne knew an amazing variety of people, most of whom were famous or infamous and/or wealthy, and if he happened not to know someone he knew someone else who could perform an introduction. A fascinating man, and a most excellent observer, listener and writer.

 

From the essay Memento Mori in his book The Mansions of Limbo:

 

Pat had two lions she had brought up from the time they were cubs that had the run of the house. A New York friend of Pat's who used to visit La Fiorentina every summer also visited the two women in Cape Town. She remembers seeing one of the lions drag an unperturbed Enid through the living room and out the French doors. "She was not remotely frightened, and later Pat told me, 'It happens all the time.' "

 

 

I think I need to get out more ...

 

[Vicky8675309]

Gosh, it's not like Faye is "prostituting" her own children, poisoning them, starving them (1 almond and a bowl of poisonous supplements), or being a lying racist faker. I guess I have a different definition of how low you have to go to be morally corrupt.

Edited January 22, 2016 by Vicky8675309

[LIMOM]

Gosh, it's not like Faye is "prostituting" her own children, poisoning them, starving them (1 almond and a bowl of poisonous supplements), or being a lying racist faker. I guess I have a different definition of how low you have to go to be morally corrupt.

Nope but she threw her friend under the bus big time and compromised the outcome of the trial.

However, if she has an explanation, I am all ears.

[zoeysmom]

For eleven years I worked full time in the criminal justice system finding expert witnesses, interviewing expert witnesses, getting them ready for trial and most of all, getting the attorney trying the case to get the expert's testimony to a level the jury could understand. In the days before the internet it meant having to do a lot of research.  I found two experts from 60 Minutes segments, another from a dental journal at my dentist's office and a very kindly old small town medical examiner who allowed me to pick his brain and use his library. In the OJ trial there were two witnesses, one for the defense and for the prosecution (at one time the worked together and I might add zero animosity between the two of them) that helped me get my start and there just aren't enough words to describe what incredibly professional, generous individuals these witnesses were when I was working.  I also attended a seminar pre-OJ with one of the attorneys that was brought in to help with the DNA evidence.  Attorneys from both sides of the aisle attend seminars and workshops that featured OJ trial participants.  It is an adversary system but for the most part attorneys on both sides manage to maintain a cordial relationship with one another.  Every attorney had an opinion of what went wrong in the prosecution of OJ Simpson.

 

Another part of my job was to interview jurors post trial.  Regardless of the verdict, good attorneys want to know how they performed and were perceived by the jury.  Three such jury interviews resulted in reversals and new trials due to jury misconduct.  The most egregious was one juror consulting a veterinarian about an expert's testimony and reporting back to the jury.  The criticism of one young attorney was he held a cup of water in his hand.  The juror found it distracting and a prop.  I passed it on to the attorney who told me-I do it so they can't see my hands shaking.  He never again used the prop again.  Other attorneys it was sort of satisfying to deflate their huge egos and tell them the jury verdict was favorable-in spite of their general demeanor and asshattery.  Believe me these attorneys want specifics.  So I apologize for my nitpicking what was submitted to the jury as evidence and what is general information and argument by attorneys.  I am use to making a record.  Not to speak down to anyone, even if gross jury misconduct had been in the OJ trial there was nothing that could be done to retry the case.  It always seems like an unfair standard but it is at the very cornerstone of our justice system.

 

My position on Faye is she overshared.  In no way did she cause the acquittal of OJ anymore than Marcia Clark's custody hearings caused the acquittal. I  don't attach any judgment to her timeline to when she made her disclosures nor the fact she was paid.  Faye didn't make her statements at Nicole's funeral.  Her anti-OJ statements came at time when the inner circle of OJ friends weren't very forthcoming as to the incredible flaws in his character, let alone his violence and guilt.  Everyone seemed to get a piece of the OJ pie.  Had Faye's statements been favorable to or excused OJ's behavior OJ, then I would think she was a bad friend.  It was a 200 + page as told to book and I do believe that her underlying theme was OJ did it and he was a repeat offender in battering Nicole and the poor woman predicted her death at the hands of her children's father.

 

Her statements regarding Kathryn Allen were inappropriate and she and Nicole did not know the woman or know if the woman was aware of the alleged affair.  So her comments about turning a blind eye were mere conjecture. She should apologize for a huge overstepping of decency.   She may not be sorry but she was indecent to Kathryn and her marriage and for that she owes the woman an apology. I do think much of her fervor was fueled by wanting justice for her friend.  If all the world takes away from the life of Nicole Brown Simpson is she had a friend make uncomplimentary reflections about her life then we are kind of living in a sad world.  What I have taken away from the inner circle in the OJ saga, is this a group of people who live their lives with a lot of concessions to maintain status and a very comfortable way of living.  I am hoping there is some clarity as to where these players were coming from 22 years later in the next installment of the OJ saga next month.