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Spoilers and Spoiler Discussion: How's Your Head?

formerlyfreedom

By formerlyfreedom
in Sleepy Hollow [V]

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catrox14

catrox14

Zounds! I certainly hope neither of them would pull a Dan Stevens before even finding out if the show was renewed. There'd be absolutely no point in bringing it back without one or the other. SH is Crane and Abbie. Everything else is just noise. 

 

I wouldn't be all that surprised if Beharie left because they really fucked her over last season. Maybe it was just too little too late for her. Who knows maybe she wanted to leave last season but stayed on longer. I dunno. Just my thinky thoughts

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The Cake is a Pie
The Cake is a Pie

I'm an optimist. Why not a Henry-Katrina murder-suicide?

DJG1122
DJG1122

Is that statue of Grace Dixon really Grace or is it Abbie?

catrox14
catrox14

I do not care about Hawley past. I care about Ichabod and Abbie being witnesses. This is why the order of 18 episodes is problematic for the show. Because this is a filler. And I am becoming increasin

MissAlmond

MissAlmond

SH is Crane and Abbie. Everything else is just noise. 

 

I would go even further and say Crane is Tom Mison and Abbie is Nicole Beharie. Pulling a Darrin Stephens or some form of reincarnation plot line in order to cast a new actor won't work either.  If one walks, cancellation is Sleepy Hollow's only option.

 

"Dawn's Early Light" is chilled and ready for drinking.

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spaceghostess

spaceghostess

(edited)

 

I wouldn't be all that surprised if Beharie left because they really fucked her over last season. Maybe it was just too little too late for her. Who knows maybe she wanted to leave last season but stayed on longer. I dunno. Just my thinky thoughts

 

I couldn't blame her if she did, because that certainly was a fuck-over of epic proportions (which continued when they didn't invite her to do DVD commentary, like WTF?). But I hope she doesn't, for my own very selfish reasons. 

Edited by spaceghostess
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spaceghostess

spaceghostess

I would go even further and say Crane is Tom Mison and Abbie is Nicole Beharie. Pulling a Darrin Stephens or some form of reincarnation plot line in order to cast a new actor won't work either.  If one walks, cancellation is Sleepy Hollow's only option.

 

"Dawn's Early Light" is chilled and ready for drinking.

Yes, and yes. There are no substitutes, nor can there ever be.

cynic

cynic

Yeah, the only scenario that I can picture the showrunners killing off Crane or Abbie is if one of the actors walked. If Mison left, the show is over without a doubt. (I love both Crane and Abbie and believe that both of them separately and especially together are vital to the show, but he's the hook.) If Beharie left, the show would be over for me personally, because the increasingly brief glimpses of their partnership is the only thing that keeps me watching at this point, but I could see the runners possibly thinking they could try to carry on without her.

I don't think SH's ratings would warrant that kind of effort to reboot the show with a different partner, but I'll admit that Sophie being kinda similar to Abbie and filling a very similar role does give me pause. I like Sophie, but she feels unnecessary with Abbie around. If Abbie was to die, Sophie basically hanging out in the wings this season would make sense.

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MissAlmond

MissAlmond

(edited)

I don't think SH's ratings would warrant that kind of effort to reboot the show with a different partner, but I'll admit that Sophie being kinda similar to Abbie and filling a very similar role does give me pause. I like Sophie, but she feels unnecessary with Abbie around. If Abbie was to die, Sophie basically hanging out in the wings this season would make sense.

 

I actually like Sophie.  As Sophie.  I wouldn't stick around for character to portray Abbie #2  

 

BTW - not even the Darrin recast really worked.  It's clear in watching, that - while Elizabeth Montgomery personally liked Dick Sargent (Darrin #2) and they were very good friends - the chemistry was with her and Dick York (Darrin #1)

Edited by MissAlmond
HalcyonDays

HalcyonDays

Reed describes the finale as "the past and present collide." Hahaha.

So that means Betsy Ross IS going to come into the modern era. Great.

 

Or all of the gods from the catacombs decide to visit SH.

 

Or we'll get the last ten minutes of the show being a tribute montage of all of the characters that have come and gone on the show, like the In Memorium segment on Talking Dead....

CalamityBoPeep

CalamityBoPeep

Or we'll get the last ten minutes of the show being a tribute montage of all of the characters that have come and gone on the show, like the In Memorium segment on Talking Dead....

 

Well... maybe we could get awesome-version-Headless back that way?

 

But, no...they'll probably bring Betsy to the present. After hinting around that it wasn't in the works. Best keep my hopes nice and low. Then I can be pleasantly surprised if they don't go there. Hoping for Headless might be too much, though.

Enero

Enero

The finale episode is called Ragnarok which is keeping with the Norse undertones this season. Here's what I found on that term on Wikepedia:

In Norse mythology, Ragnarök is a series of future events, including a great battle foretold to ultimately result in the death of a number of major figures (including the gods Odin, Thor, Týr, Freyr, Heimdallr, and Loki), the occurrence of various natural disasters, and the subsequent submersion of the world in water. Afterward, the world will resurface anew and fertile, the surviving and returning gods will meet, and the world will be repopulated by two human survivors. Ragnarök is an important event in the Norse canon, and has been the subject of scholarly discourse and theory.

This certainly fits in with THO's plan. The past and present colliding could be the gods of the past returning to the world which is now the present.

With regards to Betsy Ross, I just don't see the point of her coming to the present. The ever growing list of team Witness is already about 2-3 people too many we don't need more.

She had a life after Crane, married and died with a grave and a house in Philly commemorating this. It would serve no purpose for her to somehow be plucked from a moment in the past and brought to the future, and for what? To give Crane another love interest? Because that would be the only viable purpose she would serve. I think Betsy coming to the future would be just as destructive to history as Franklin being decapitated in 2x18, considering the critical role the writers have given her in the war. For that reason I'm going to believe that the past and present colliding is not referring to Betsy coming to the future but something else.

catrox14

catrox14

(edited)

I still say Betsy comes BACK to the present from whence she came.

I just don't believe that character is of that time and never was.

And I'm not so sure she is THE Betsy Ross. I'll bet she's a descendent of Betsy sent back for...reasons.

So now when she shows up in the present, she and Ichabod will have a thing and Abbie and Daniel will have a thing..

And I can finally stop watching because this stupid show keeps baiting Ichabbie and giving me nothing in return.

Edited by catrox14
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HalcyonDays

HalcyonDays

So now when she shows up in the present, she and Ichabod will have a thing and Abbie and Daniel will have a thing..

 

That's what I am starting to think too. Unless my theory of Crane being killed off (because he technically doesn't belong in the 21st century - think Final Destination) is right.

 

There would no longer be a need for Witnesses (Crane's death - taking THO and Pandora with him - stops the threat completely), and Abbie can go back to her normal life of FBIing, jogging in the woods and being in a boring normal relationship with Danny.

 

/End series

 

And I can finally stop watching because this stupid show keeps baiting Ichabbie and giving me nothing in return.

 

Won't be hard, since the show most likely will be cancelled.

 

Only two more rage-inducing, ship!teasing, illogical episodes to go.

catrox14

catrox14

That's what I am starting to think too. Unless my theory of Crane being killed off (because he technically doesn't belong in the 21st century - think Final Destination) is right.

 

There would no longer be a need for Witnesses (Crane's death - taking THO and Pandora with him - stops the threat completely), and Abbie can go back to her normal life of FBIing, jogging in the woods and being in a boring normal relationship with Danny.

 

/End series

I'll be really sad if they kill Crane :(. I don't care if he goes back to his time but let the man live! OHHH what if they send him back, awakes with no memory of being a Witness and goes off to live the life his Dad always wanted him to do? Just make sure he stays away from Katrina

FierceAfroChick

FierceAfroChick

(edited)

I don’t think they’d kill off Crane.  What’s Sleepy Hollow without Ichabod Crane?  And if we go by Tom Mison’s recent comments (unable to audition because he doesn’t know about season 4, etc) then the character’s still alive.

 

That Milner dude is such a hardcore Ichabbie shipper, but not sure if he has insider information.  But there is a certain amount of intimacy radiating from that pic.

 

Edited by FierceAfroChick
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HalcyonDays

HalcyonDays

I'll be really sad if they kill Crane :(. I don't care if he goes back to his time but let the man live! OHHH what if they send him back, awakes with no memory of being a Witness and goes off to live the life his Dad always wanted him to do? Just make sure he stays away from Katrina.

 

It gives excellent closure for everyone (well, except poor Crane). Everyone now belongs where they originally were supposed to belong (Crane in ground, Abbie doing her FBI thing, Jenny doing her whatever thing), everything is back to normal, no demons to fight, no risk to SH or other places.

 

If Crane goes back and lives the life Dad always wanted, that's always those time travelling paradoxes that means that unless it's an alternate timeline, then the future does get screwed up because no Crane in 21st century. I thinking the death, only because I'm thinking of like in Star Trek, when someone is in the wrong time line, their "quantum signatures" are not correct for the time. Crane's "quantum signature" is different and doesn't fit in the current timeline  /*STNerd

 

But if he goes back, please ensure he's happy and AWAY from the wife. And doesn't remember anything. Because that would suck, being exposed to all of the new technology - like, you know he LOVES cars - and he loses all of that. And again, timelines. His modern knowledge could be detrimental to how events are supposed to unfold in the 18th century. Yes, I've thought a lot about it. :')

 

 

I don’t think they’d kill off Crane.  What’s Sleepy Hollow without Ichabod Crane?  And if we go by Tom Mison’s recent comments (unable to audition because he doesn’t know about season 4, etc) then the character’s still alive.

 

I think they would if it's a series finale, not a season. And I think they know. FOX said at the beginning of the season, they wouldn't leave CC hanging.

 

What Mison says and what he really knows are two different things, and I think he knows and they know. It's why knowing that CC said very recently this season is supposed to end on a cliffhanger, but before said that he would ensure proper closure. So if a massive amount of closure? - end series. Unresolved plot? - season 4. Also why the haircut, imho. However, if he's spotted anywhere fully shaved in the next two weeks, then yeah, show is done.

 

That Milner dude is such a hardcore Ichabbie shipper, but not sure if he has insider information.  But there is a certain amount of intimacy radiating from that pic.

 

He always sounds like he does and is very positive so that's nice. Still, don't tease me, bro!

slade3

slade3

Would someone please remind me what happened with Nicole Beharie last season? I remember there seemed to be a lot of shade thrown her way by the show runners, and then she wasn't invited to do commentary on the DVDs, but what actually happened? Thanks.

 

Unfortunately, I've been fast-forwarding the episodes, stopping only for scenes between Crane and Abbie, and Jenny and Joe. Everything else seems embarrassingly bad.

 

The only reason I still DVR this show is just in case there is a declaration of love, or a kiss, between Abbie and Crane. I've never been a hardcore shipper for these two, but I loved their chemistry in season 1 and could see an eventual romance working very well. But that was when I trusted the writers and thought they knew what they were doing! And then there was a point when Nicole B did an interview and said she didn't think they should be a couple, and it seemed as if she lost interest in the show and was trying to move Abbie away from having chemistry with Crane. When actors/show runners insert themselves into a show that way, I lose interest. I won't ship a couple the actors and showrunners are against because that's just too painful (looking at you Buffy the Vampire Slayer).

 

So I haven't really cared whether Abbie and Crane realize their feelings in a long time, but I don't want to miss it if they do.

DeLurker

DeLurker

From what I remember, the former showrunner was so enamored with Katia Winters (is that her name?) that Katrina's role was expanded throughout S1 and S2 became completely Katrinacentric.  Abbie showed up in each episode, but as far in the perimeter as Goffman could push her although NB contributed some epic eyerolls throughout S2.

 

I don't know what was happening behind the scenes with NB - granted I don't follow that stuff much - but Katia W. was interviewed a lot saying how she was really excited about what direction they were taking with Katrina and implying, if not flat out stating, how close she was with the writers and how it was a very mutual collaboration.

 

As far as I know, TM and NB never made public comment on the direction of the show, although John Noble threw some serious shade at one point (which I don't remember what it was) and Orlando Jones did too (coated in humor).

HalcyonDays

HalcyonDays

As far as I know, TM and NB never made public comment on the direction of the show.

 

They actually did comment after season 2 was done, NB was a bit more vague, but Mison was quoted in an interview basically saying the season was a mess, and the writers didn't really know what they were doing/where they were going. You'd have to search, but the links are here somewhere, in one or two of the threads (Media? Therapy thread?)

 

John Noble threw some serious shade at one point

 

He also said something like the writers had no idea what they were doing. Both he and Mison also lamented they didn't work together more.

slade3

slade3

Thank you.

 

I remember there were some issues with Katia Winters and her interviews, and I decided not to read anything she said. I'm still not over what happened to Spike and Buffy, so I was determined to ignore all RL interviews/drama. But I also remember Lyndie Greenwood defending Katia because they were roommates, or something, and it made me give Lyndie the side-eye.

phoenics

phoenics

(edited)

Thank you.

 

I remember there were some issues with Katia Winters and her interviews, and I decided not to read anything she said. I'm still not over what happened to Spike and Buffy, so I was determined to ignore all RL interviews/drama. But I also remember Lyndie Greenwood defending Katia because they were roommates, or something, and it made me give Lyndie the side-eye.

I have side-eyed LG for that ever since and thus wasn't all that sorry for her when Jenny was sidelined last season BY KW, except it made the show suck.

But the main thing KW did that was really, really bad was that she sent out a tweet before Deliverance aired that made it sound like Katrina was being killed off and then insinuated some blame on Ichabbie fans? It was something like that. I just remember it was in such poor taste ESPECIALLY since Deliverance was this horrible episode that seemed to scream from the rooftops that Katrina was taking over ad defacto lead of the show and shoving NB aside. It was really, really bad. Clearly KW was taking some really unprofessional and childish potshots at the Ichabbie fans, whom she seemed to think she was a victim of.

Such an entitled non talented hack.

The fans LIT HER UP. I'm trying to remember if she apologized or not, but before and after that, every interview she gave she was salty that NB had so many fans and that by the time she had a more expanded role on the show, too many fans loved NB to accept her. Which clearly makes it sound like she wanted fans to dump NB as lead and take her - which shows how ENTITLED she was.

Ugh I hate her. It all just came rushing back.

Edited by phoenics
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netlyon2

netlyon2

(edited)

^^^ Ugh! If nothing else, Nikki Reed seems to be a nice person and a professional (just maybe not so great at her profession), so . . . Upgrade?

In finale news, this tweet from Joe Webb better not refer to some wacky wedding hijinx! I'm glad that they haven't forgotten about Ichabod's citizenship quest, but I do not want them to go the sitcom route with this.

https://twitter.com/joewebb13/status/716344619278008320

Edited by netlyon2
HalcyonDays

HalcyonDays

I'm banking that when BR returns to her own time, she'll finagle something to ensure Crane's "ancestor" (obviously Crane himself) is an American citizen. Don't ask me for details on HOW.

 

Though the marriage of convenience, I would not be surprised.

 

However Joe was rich, so he could have "bought" Crane's citizenship as a "gift" that he was never able to present. Don't tell me that rich people can't do that....

Enero

Enero

(edited)

I'm banking that when BR returns to her own time, she'll finagle something to ensure Crane's "ancestor" (obviously Crane himself) is an American citizen. Don't ask me for details on HOW.

Though the marriage of convenience, I would not be surprised.

However Joe was rich, so he could have "bought" Crane's citizenship as a "gift" that he was never able to present. Don't tell me that rich people can't do that....

They have left the citizenship issue dangling in the wind. With all that's been going on I doubt Crane has had the opportunity to reschedule his immigration interview.

That said, I'm not sure how SBR can fix his citizenship problem 250 years in advance. It's not like she could write a note saying he is a natural born citizen of the US and even if she did that wouldn't suffice as proof of his citizenship.

I'm more inclined to think Papa Mills may be able to help with that. Since he's been in the game for a while he may have connections that can be useful in a situation such as this. Also now that Danny is in the know he might be able to pull some strings via the FBI and help Crane out.

I really can't imagine them addressing this before the season is over especially with THO about to destroy the world, unless they address it by having Crane is deported at the end of the finale.

Edited by Enero
Enero

Enero

However, if Ichabod's 'ancestor' was a citizen, wouldn't Ichabod be too? My nonna's grandfather was a citizen who went back to Italy, and she used his citizenship to get in fifty years later.

True. But my understanding is this only goes back as far as a grandparent. Based on TM's age, Crane is probably 30-31. So the earliest his "grandparents" could've been citizens of US would've been the early 1900s and that's pushing it because that would mean his grandparent would've had his mom or dad at the age of 50 which just didn't happen back then.

My point is SBR wouldn't be able to forge the necessary ancestry he'd need to get his citizenship 250+ years in advance. I think it would make most sense to have someone from now do the forgery. Also, how would SBR even know Crane is having immigration issues to even be prompted to do the forgery? Somehow I don't think that'll be discussed with all that's going on. But then again, stranger things have happened on this show. Lol

bobbysgurl

bobbysgurl

I don't think SBR can come to 2016, because she was never here. If she can, indeed, leave the Catacombs, she shall go back the hell from whence she came. If she goes back to her time, unless it is to the exact point at which she left, who will she be? "BR" lived her life. I'd be surprised if she can leave the Catacombs. SBR's "flag speech" had a finality to it. It seemed to me that she knew she wasn't coming back.

Joe will probably be back. Didn't Campbell say Joe is gone in this iteration? That to me means he can be regenerated, sans the Wendigo.

Crane is a Founding Father. Proof will be discovered, probably left by the "Witness" protection group. Ergo, he is by default a citizen.

Danny needs to get to stepping.

I remember Dave and Maddie. Moonlighting was a family favorite. I never knew Dave and Maddie got together. My son said he thought they got together in a dream sequence. I don't know why I cannot remember them getting together, though. I remember the BHTS BS, though. I think it was a war of egos with CS being the aggressor.

I'm riding the SH wagon until the wheels fall off. I'm here for NB and TM. I don't like the direction the writers "seem" to want to go, but I'm a willing hostage.

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FierceAfroChick

FierceAfroChick

(edited)

Good! Crane WANTS Betsy to go back to 1776!

 

Think this clip was VERY deliberately chosen.

 

I think so too.  I've no doubt Crane cares for Betsy, but he doesn't appear to be at all conflicted about sending her back to her own time or to be entertaining any romantic notions about their relationship.  Now that could all change when the scene is in context with the rest of the episode, but it seems telling to me.

 

Trekkie!Crane is adorable.

Edited by FierceAfroChick
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FierceAfroChick

FierceAfroChick

Weeeeeeeeeeeee! Loved both promos! I, too, cannot wait to see the episode. I was debating on whether to watch it tonight, while enduring history comments from my husband, or watching it in the privacy of my bedroom on Hulu tomorrow morning in peace and quiet. I think I'll do both. Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

 

Unfortunately, I’ll have to wait until tomorrow to watch on Hulu, so I'm looking forward to everyone's comments tonite.  I was ready to abandon the show altogether after last week’s ep, but reading posts here talked me off the ledge, LOL. 

 

Given they need an eternal soul to save the day, I’m wondering if that’s why Headless was brought back.

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AD55

AD55

(edited)

Weeeeeeeeeeeee! Loved both promos! I, too, cannot wait to see the episode. I was debating on whether to watch it tonight, while enduring history comments from my husband, or watching it in the privacy of my bedroom on Hulu tomorrow morning in peace and quiet. I think I'll do both. Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

I was taking a sip of tea when I read this and almost spit on my keyboard from laughing.

Edited by AD55
AD55

AD55

I won't be able to watch until after 10:00 pm tonight. My DVR better not screw up and my wine better chill in time...

 

Another clip: The heart wants what it wants...

 

 

Why you do this to me, show???

 

Oh man. They'd better not be messing with us. Partner is an ambiguous term, and I don't know how to interpret Abbie's expression. Oh well, just a few hours left to speculate.

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FierceAfroChick

FierceAfroChick

I won't be able to watch until after 10:00 pm tonight. My DVR better not screw up and my wine better chill in time...

 

Another clip: The heart wants what it wants...

 

 

Why you do this to me, show???

 

Oh shit!  The feels!  OMG, would it be unseemly of me to drink wine in the morning while I'm watching this? 

  • Love 6
HalcyonDays

HalcyonDays

Oh shit!  The feels!  OMG, would it be unseemly of me to drink wine in the morning while I'm watching this? 

 

Nope. :') The emotions want what the emotions need...

 

Oh man. They'd better not be messing with us. Partner is an ambiguous term, and I don't know how to interpret Abbie's expression. Oh well, just a few hours left to speculate.

 

It is an ambiguous term and yeah, her expression...I don't know...

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bobbysgurl

bobbysgurl

(edited)

I won't be able to watch until after 10:00 pm tonight. My DVR better not screw up and my wine better chill in time...

Another clip: The heart wants what it wants...

Why you do this to me, show???

Y'all bout to make me lose my mind! I'm going out to get me a bottle for the viewing.

Edited to remove double quoted comment.

Edited by bobbysgurl
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DeLurker

DeLurker

Oh shit!  The feels!  OMG, would it be unseemly of me to drink wine in the morning while I'm watching this? 

 

 

Nope. :') The emotions want what the emotions need...

Back in days of yore, there were mornings where I just felt like having a beer at an unseemly hour.  If it makes you feel better, just call it a mimosa which is certainly a respectable AM drink.  But you just happen to be out of juice.  And bubbles.

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