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Defenders of Hell's Kitchen: The Marvel/Netflix Shared Universe

DutchGuy

By DutchGuy
in Daredevil [V]

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Chicago Redshirt

Chicago Redshirt

Marvel and Netflix have announced that there will be a team-up series called The Defenders that will unite Daredevil, Jessica Jones, and two other characters, Luke Cage and Iron Fist.

 

Each of those four are supposed to have their own series. The last I read on the Interwebs, Iron Fist's series would follow The Defenders.

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Boundary

Boundary

(edited)

With Daredevil season 2 coming a week earlier than speculated, which itself was probably a couple of weeks earlier than originally suspected, it got me thinking about the whole Defenders schedule. Why was DD pushed out early? I'm not complaining, mind! We know Luke Cage is in production - Jessica Jones started shooting in Feb last year and was released end of Nov - so as a guess maybe a September release for LC? Possibly August? Iron Fist now has a showrunner, but no cast yet and I'd think no writing or preproduction yet, assuming JJ staff aren't lying idle and are prepping for season 2. Put this all in a blender and I really have no idea what Jeph Loeb and Ted Sarandos will decide. But I'd love to ponder.

 

Ultimately when is the Defenders series likely to come out? I think 2018. Daredevil S2 and Luke Cage S1 this year. Iron Fist early 2017 in DD's slot, (who will sit out the year?) and either JJ or LC later in the year. But why should Jessica Jones wait till 2018, an almost 3 year wait? They set up a few JJ specific material, like the IGH corporation and their role (or not) in her getting powers. It's a season 2 follow up, rather than a Luke Cage or Defenders thread - unlike the Will Simpson/Nuke thread which can travel to other shows. It's fair to say Netflix's comments on this issue basically boils down to, "when it's ready we'll release it." They have no fall schedule to fill up, maybe one show might need more post production than another, etc.

 

So bearing that in mind - and that nobody knows for sure - here's my guess. The Defenders will have to shoot soon after Iron Fist wraps up, late this year, say. That means they spend most of 2017 shooting the Defenders whilst 3 of the series are being released (Iron Fist, Jessica S2 and Daredevil S3), leaving 2018 clear for the tv event of the year (well, forgetting the small matter of GOT's final season). 

Edited by Boundary
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dwmarch

dwmarch

I wish! There have been enough skyline shots in DD and JJ that we should have seen the Avengers tower by now. But there still seem to be some licensing issues. So instead of saying Iron Man they say "the guy in the iron suit" and instead of Thor we get "the guy with the magical hammer". I'd like to see stronger tie-ins to the MCU. We've had lots of little crossovers (Roxxon, which has been around since Iron Man) and inside references to the TV shows (Daredevil at the same orphanage as Daisy, Crusher Creel, The Dogs of Hell) but the only direct crossovers have been with the other Netflix series. So Claire shows up on Jessica Jones and talks about Luke Cage when she talks to Foggy. And Jessica gets mentioned as one of those troublesome vigilantes. Jeri Hogarth drops by. I am assuming all the mystical stuff with The Hand is setup for the Iron Fist series which is deeper mysticism than these shows have tackled so far. But no real crossovers with anything outside of Netflix.

 

Regardless, we have a teaser for Luke Cage now:

 

Iron Fist seems to be out of development hell now. Finn Jones is playing the title character and production begins in mid-April.

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Dandesun

Dandesun

I'm going to take a wild stab and say it's not actually licensing issues that's the problem. This is a shared universe. It's still Marvel and it's all under one umbrella. I'm going to take a wild stab and say that they don't want to completely name drop in the Netflix properties and count on that for viewers, or suggest that those characters might show up in these venues. So they keep it a bit on the less obvious side of things. 'magic hammer' 'iron suit' 'flag waver' 'big green guy' -- plus, these are all characters that don't have any real desire to go out and fight alien invasions and Hydra and all that.

 

Matt wants to take care of his particular corner of New York. Jessica just wanted to be left alone to try to survive. Luke just wants to be left alone, too. Who the hell knows about Danny just yet? None of these guys have shown any inclination to want to even contact the 'big names' much less be a part of that world so I can see why they wouldn't mention them by name.

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Kel Varnsen

Kel Varnsen

I don't need to much cross over with the movies. In fact i think that hurts Agents of SHIELD. I mean they are so tied to the movies that anything that happens in them has reprocussions in the show. At the same time the show can't do anything major because that might have an effect on the movies. The Netflix shows are a bit more isolated. I just want to see the damn tower.

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that one guy

that one guy

So I'm aware of the one track, that has everything in the movies leading up to the big Infinity War thing, but I'm wondering if the TV end of things has its own secret plan. Roxxon is showed to be an evil conspiracy in both Agent Carter and Daredevil. The Hand and Hydra both worship mysterious dark entities that appear to possess people, and have done so for centuries. Could the be the same, or at least the same species? Did the Hand control Roxxon in the 40s? Is there a really, really slow-moving alien invasion going on? "They're all reusing the same plot points" is kind of lame, but "it's all the same conspiracy" could be kind of interesting. Possibly there will be something approaching an explanation in "Iron Fist."

 

If this is true, there's a lot more crossover from the movies than there appears to be. They don't need to know each other to inhabit the same world. There's 8 million people in New York. The only Avengers/Netflix crossover I could imagine is Black Widow needing a shady lawyer - she has one in her most recent comics run to handle her assets, hush money, and secret payoffs to the families of people she wishes she hadn't assassinated. On the page it's an unrelated character, but I'd love to see a Carrie Ann Moss cameo on the big screen. But the big screen Widow is sort of defanged - there's no indication she still kills people for money in her spare time. If she did, that's where the crossover territory would be, since Natasha's "independent consulting" work is where she comes into contact with people like Elektra and Punisher.

 

Now I've convinced myself that we do need a crossover - a Black Widow movie with Punisher, Elektra and Jeri Hogarth rounding out the cast. It could be like a heist movie, only instead of stealing something, it's a murder for hire.

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Dandesun

Dandesun

Natasha ran around with Matt and ultimately decided that she wasn't a side-kick and that's pretty much why she left. She ran into him again years later and still carried a bit of a torch for him but he was in the midst of yet another 'Matt's life is a shitstorm' mess and realized he was way, way too angry to be a good partner... or even able to return her feelings.

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Danny Franks

Danny Franks

Natasha is far too developed and prominent a character in the MCU for them to try recreating the comic book romance, in my view. It just wouldn't work, and the worlds the two inhabit are far too different. Daredevil would look completely out of place in The Avengers, because the world they've created for his show is so dark and gritty and 'street level', and his mindset is the same. He's not interested in saving the world. Hell, he's barely interested in saving New York. He's trying to save Hells Kitchen.

 

Natasha probably barely knows Hells Kitchen exists. And if they were going to give her a comic book romance, then I'd be very unhappy if it was with Matt 'three love interests and counting' Murdock. I don't really want the Netflix world to interact with the rest of them anyway. The Netflix stuff is a clear cut above the shitty Agents of SHIELD, and even above the movies, particularly the second Avengers movie. I'd rather they kept it on its own.

 

I really am eager to see Jessica and Matt meet, though. And Trish and Matt. Those scenes could be a lot of fun, when you've got Matt weighed down by all his Catholic guilt, Jessica by her buckets of cynicism, and then you've got Trish, who really, really wants to be a hero. Luke Cage can work a shift at the bar, and stay out of the way.

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that one guy

that one guy

An MCU romance between Natasha and Matt would never happen, because of the different worlds they inhabit, not so much Avengers/Hells Kitchen, but Movies/TV. I can see plenty of situations in which she might need an attorney, though, which would make for an awesome cameo.

 

There is a lot of recent stuff to draw on for collaborations with some of the other characters. Here's Nat with Elektra and Frank.

 

But in terms of crossovers, mostly I'm just waiting to see Karen and Jessica get drunk and spill about their respective dark pasts.

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Danny Franks

Danny Franks

There is a lot of recent stuff to draw on for collaborations with some of the other characters. Here's Nat with Elektra and Frank.

 

They completely flubbed the possibilities of drawing on comic book stories for a connection between Natasha and the Winter Soldier, so I'll actually be annoyed if they link her to any other characters, using far less substantial comic book inspirations.

 

But then I still want a Winter Soldier Netflix series anyway. Not really interested in seeing how loosely they define him in the next Cap movie.

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Kel Varnsen

Kel Varnsen

An MCU romance between Natasha and Matt would never happen, because of the different worlds they inhabit, not so much Avengers/Hells Kitchen, but Movies/TV. I can see plenty of situations in which she might need an attorney, though, which would make for an awesome cameo.

Which I always thought was a bullshit excuse for why the heroes from the movies won't show up on the TV shows. I mean are you telling me that Scarlett Johansson has the time to spend a week at 30 Rock doing an episode of SNL, but she can't do a couple of days on set of Agents of SHIELD or Daredevil. I am honestly surprised that the bosses at Disney/Marvel haven't tried to force the issue in some of their (non-RDJ) actor's contracts.

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feverfew

feverfew

Jessica Henwick (also of Game of Thrones fame) has been cast as the female lead, Colleen Wing, on Iron Fist. Colleen Wing is most famous as part of the Daughters of the Dragon duo and the best friend of Misty Knight, who'll be the female lead on Luke Cage.

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Dandesun

Dandesun

Jessica Henwick (also of Game of Thrones fame) has been cast as the female lead, Colleen Wing, on Iron Fist. Colleen Wing is most famous as part of the Daughters of the Dragon duo and the best friend of Misty Knight, who'll be the female lead on Luke Cage.

 

YES! I am so happy that we're getting Misty and Colleen! UNBELIEVABLY happy!!

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sinkwriter

sinkwriter

(edited)

Would anyone be able to tell me how the various shows mesh as far as a timeline goes? For example, I've only seen season 1 of Jessica Jones (a long time ago), and I just watched the entire Daredevil series, but I've never seen Iron Fist or Luke Cage or Defenders. 

I'm guessing Defenders series (only 1 season, right?), then Daredevil season 3? But what about JJ and IF and LC series. Where do each of their seasons line up with one another and with Daredevil as a whole? 

I'm also wondering, is it worth it for me to check out those other series? Do you like them? I loved Daredevil, but I've heard less than thrilled comments about some of the other series, and am wondering what your take is. Thanks!

Edited by sinkwriter
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Llywela

Llywela

On 6/14/2019 at 8:31 PM, sinkwriter said:

Would anyone be able to tell me how the various shows mesh as far as a timeline goes? For example, I've only seen season 1 of Jessica Jones (a long time ago), and I just watched the entire Daredevil series, but I've never seen Iron Fist or Luke Cage or Defenders. 

I'm guessing Defenders series (only 1 season, right?), then Daredevil season 3? But what about JJ and IF and LC series. Where do each of their seasons line up with one another and with Daredevil as a whole? 

I'm also wondering, is it worth it for me to check out those other series? Do you like them? I loved Daredevil, but I've heard less than thrilled comments about some of the other series, and am wondering what your take is. Thanks!

As far as I can remember, the timeline of the various shows pretty much lines up with when they aired, that's the sequence of events in this universe.

I watched Defenders without having seen Luke Cage or Iron Fist, and pretty much managed to follow what was going on. Having then gone back to watch the shows in order, in terms of understanding the plot of Defenders, Iron Fist is the important one - you'll already know Luke Cage from S1 Jessica Jones, and I don't think anything from his show ties into the plot of Defenders, other than the existence of a couple of supporting characters perhaps. Daredevil gets name-checked once or twice in Luke Cage, but that's about it.

Defenders directly ties into the beginning of Daredevil S3 - which from what you say you've already seen? So you'll already have seen how DD S3 picks up in a different place from where S2 left off - other than that, the events of Defenders don't really figure into the plot of that season, so you aren't missing much. Defenders is fun to watch in terms of seeing all these characters actually interacting, but the storyline isn't the best and the plot is all over the place. Luke Cage is a moody, broody kind of show - has some really entertaining characters, but can be very slow, and Luke himself is not the most engaging protagonist ever. Iron Fist is...I would say the bubblegum offering of the Netflix Marvel universe. It isn't a great show, Danny Rand is dumb as a box of rocks, but I actually found it a lot more fun to watch than Luke Cage. Not least because they remember to switch on the damn lights from time to time! And again it has some really entertaining characters.

So...you aren't missing much if you decide not to watch, but then again you might have some fun with them if you do!

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blueray

blueray

Daredevil is the best of the group. However here's my opinion on the other ones.

Luke Cage: Is kind of boring. I saw season 1 and couldn't make it through season 2.  I don't see this as a necessary watch.

Iron Fist: Season 2 is way better than season 1. Season 1 is meh at best, and the storyline (and Danny) are kind of dumb. Season 2 gets better but not as good as Daredevil.

Jessica Jones: I've heard was good at least season 1 but I personally didn't make it past the first episode.

The Punisher: A pretty good show that unfortunately got cancelled shortly after it's second season.

The Defenders: Actually a good watch if you like character interactions. The story can be a bit slow at the beginning but this pays off for character scenes. The villain isn't great and there are problems with the plot. But overall I enjoyed this season. I'd say in order to watch it seeing Iron Fist (season 1) is helpful as it does at least feed into it. I followed it just fine having not seen JJ.  And it takes place before season 2 of IF and LC.

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