The West Wing Season Seven: The Campaign Trail

[Kohola3]

If you have not gotten emotional enough, watch this

 

 

OK now a hanky alert wouldn't have been out of place here....

[Guest]

I will revisit your post when I am not at work, AriAu.  Thanks for the link.

[AriAu]

The episode I didn't watch after Election II (because I was a little too emotional) had a description that said it was centered around Leo's funeral.

 

Deaja, you need to watch it so that we can play old character bingo. Some familiar faces pop up....as you would expect.

[Guest]

This is not how I wanted Zoey back. :(

Jed, Santos, and Josh as pall bearers, the stricken looks on every face... So sad. I'm glad Toby was there. I was afraid he would be blackballed even from the funeral.

Wait. Why doesn't Santos have Josh lead the transition? Barry who? Barry didn't convince him to run and lead his campaign giving up his White House job!

Toby isn't going to the graveyard. :( He does feel blackballed.

I know I don't like Abby, but she's making me cry now. :(

Oh, Josh is CoS. That's ok then.

Danny is here!!!

[eyebleach]

You are adorable!
 

[Guest]

Sorry. My posts are a bit disjointed. ;)

Ainsley!!!!!!

Amy. Yay.

[AriAu]

Josie, Mallory,  Nancy McNally, the Bartlet sisters, Andi, Hoynes...like I said, old character bingo.

[Melancholy]

I know I don't like Abby, but she's making me cry now. :(

 

I wanted to wait till later S7 to say that IMO, Abbey has a realistic arc where her mood mirrors the what the presidency means to her. Bubbly and optimistic in the first two seasons when Jed's presidency looks like just one-term, per their agreement, where Jed will do his part for the country and satisfy his goals and dreams but he'll remain in fine health and they'll go back to living a full life in New Hampshire but with the presidency-prestige all over them. Angry in the third season when she's mainly focused on how Jed broke their solid agreement and her professional career will pay the consequences of their joint choices and worried that his health can't take two terms in office. More agreeable in the fourth season when she made her peace that Jed's presidency really is more important than her career as much as it pains her to admit it- but as part of that, quite resolved to use their time in office to accomplish political goals if she can't attend to her own medical goals. But then, she was furious and felt betrayed when she ended up making peace for a presidency that jeopardized her baby girl's life.

 

Ironically, I think Jed's crises- his unhappiness in S5, the government shutdown, but especially the worsening MS in S6- forced Abbey to shelve her anger toward Jed since he appears like the victim here but instead, take it out on Leo or CJ. However, her anger at Jed gave way to a panic and hurt that he's not going to make it out of the presidency medically or psychologically OK which ended becoming anger turned on others and some smothering turned on Jed. 

 

IMO, Abbey softens A LOT when Abbey can see the final yardline coming up where Jed looks like he'll be weaker and more limited but OK enough to enjoy a retirement and dignified presidency behind him and she'll get her medical license back as they agreed in S3 so she can let up on her fears and desperation that the presidency will suck out a lot of what she valued in her family from Jed's life to Zoey's life to her career. 

[BW Manilowe]

That was hinted at (very cleverly) in Welcome to Wherever We Are.

For me, the image I always have are of Annabeth's little smirk when the agent lets her into the hotel room, his glasses on the desk in the room, the bleakness of Josh and Donna's run through the stark white halls of the hospital and then Annabeth/Chenoweth's mascara streaked face.

If you have not gotten emotional enough, watch this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9NmVgbM63U

I thought I heard some rumor that she sang it at his funeral or memorial service, but that may have been just a rumor.

Oh....by the way Deaja....a few weeks ago you asked if it was as bad as you thought it would be and I think we told you it would be worse....and it was.

I've always read Cheno sang the song you linked to--For Good from Wicked--at John's funeral/memorial service (I think the 1 in LA). And I remember her talking about it on talk

shows she did after. Not for nothing, but that's become 1 of my favorite songs.

I also remember her talking about how they were good friends while doing the show &, after he died, she would find Jolly Rancher candies (she said those were his favorites) in places she knew they weren't at before he died (like in pockets of her clothes, & other places). She felt like maybe that was him trying to send her a message.

[eyebleach]

Oh for the love of Pete I'm glad I chose to watch that at home vs. my office!

[BizBuzz]

OMG ... my eyes needed a good washing ...

[Guest]

Sam!!!!! Please accept the offer!

[Guest]

Josh. It took me 5 full seasons to become Team Josh and Donna. You have three weeks and 6 days so don't screw this up!

[txhorns79]

IMO, Abbey softens A LOT when Abbey can see the final yardline coming up where Jed looks like he'll be weaker and more limited but OK enough to enjoy a retirement and dignified presidency behind him and she'll get her medical license back as they agreed in S3 so she can let up on her fears and desperation that the presidency will suck out a lot of what she valued in her family from Jed's life to Zoey's life to her career.

 

Abbey was already practicing medicine again by Season 5.  She took an overnight shift at a clinic in DC one day a week.  I don't remember if they ever tried to explain how that squared with her previous promise to give up her license until the end of Jed's time in the White House.  Heck, I'm not even sure how that job would have worked on a practical basis with a sitting First Lady.  It seems like a huge security risk for Abbey, as you can't really do a good screening on what would be walk-in patients, and her presence (and security detail) would end up scaring away people on the fringe (ex-cons, prostitutes,etc.) who needed clinic services.   

 

 

Josie, Mallory,  Nancy McNally, the Bartlet sisters, Andi, Hoynes...like I said, old character bingo.

 

It was nice to see everyone.  I like to think of it as a televised wake for John Spencer. 

[Guest]

I hope Donna accepts Helen's job offer. I think it would be a good move for her. It keeps her near the Santos if she wants to campaign again. It is a good use of her skill set, I think. It could also be a good career move going forward.

[Guest]

He pardoned Toby, didn't he? So sweet. Ok, maybe not sweet. Anyway, I'm happy.

I like the Santos. They should have continued the series with them and whoever was staying on their staff.

Oh wait. Maybe he isn't pardoning him.

Mallory's scene made me tear up.

WWLD? Oh CJ. More tears.

[Guest]

Giving the Constitution to Charlie? More tears yet again. But why haven't they mentioned Charlie and Zoey?

Oh! He did it! He pardoned Toby!

[AriAu]

Oh! He did it! He pardoned Toby

 

Now that you are finished with the episode, I can ask....did you see Aaron Sorkin during the Inauguration scene?

[Guest]

I have no idea what he looks like, so I did not.

[AriAu]

I have no idea what he looks like, so I did not

 

.Listen, we all have loved following you on this journey, but if you want to be a real WingNut (or SportsNight jockey etc..) Sorkin history (some might say obsession) is something you have to work on. Please tell me that you know that he used to date Kristen Chenoweth, who was the model for Harriet Hayes on Studio 60. Or that he wrote SportsNight from watching too much ESPN Sportscenter (with Dan Patrick and Keith Olberman.) while locked in a hotel room writing the screen  play for The American President.

By the way, I am continually upset that there is not a sarcasm font on the internet to convey that I am teasing!

 

Here you go-I got it from youtube this way and did not mark it up, I swear!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnGOmYclZq4

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S78RzZr3IwI

Edited December 19, 2015 by AriAu

[Kohola3]

Oh my God, the Sorkinisms are wonderful!

[BW Manilowe]

I have no idea what he looks like, so I did not.

Since nobody else did it yet, I Googled the screencap of Aaron Sorkin's uncredited cameo in TWW. He was just an apparently random guy in the outdoor crowd during the inauguration scenes--I think he was shown while Keb Mo performed whichever patriotic song he did; otherwise it was while Santos was being sworn in by the actress who replaced Glenn Close as Chief Justice of the US Supreme Court Evelyn Baker Lang after The Supremes. If I remember correctly, doing an uncredited cameo in each of his projects (like Alfred Hitchcock also did, I believe) is a "trademark" of Sorkin's. If I'm misremembering that, someone please feel free to correct me.

Anyway... Here, finally, is the link to the picture.

http://www.google.com/search?site=webhp&tbm=isch&source=hp&ei=X96BVtSiCMPzmQHJormABw&q=aaron+sorkin+west+wing+cameo&oq=aaron+sorkin+west+w&gs_l=mobile-gws-hp.1.1.0j0i24l2.3708.17225.0.18834.20.20.0.5.5.0.886.8013.2-4j10j3j1j2.20.0....0...1c.1.64.mobile-gws-hp..0.20.6464.1.e7Q67v5Ag64#imgrc=8nrG6tvF7kAAFM%3A

And, now that you actually have the Complete Series DVDs there's something else you can watch, if you like: the hidden video "Easter Eggs" that are included in the DVDs for the first 6 seasons (nobody's ever found any on the 7th season DVDs; if they have, the instructions on finding the Egg & the content of it/them has never been posted to either TWW-related sites or sites which gather information on hidden Easter Eggs for all TV shows & movies).

These are short, fun, videos that relate to some aspect of the show/characters, or cast members, which are hidden on DVDs--some sets/individual discs in a set only have 1 Easter Egg through the whole thing; other sets/individual discs in a set contain multiple Easter Eggs. You basically have to luck into them initially, unless you follow the show/movie involved on a site like this & someone else has already found them & been kind enough to post the instructions on which disc(s) has (have) the Easter Egg(s) & how you navigate through the disc(s) involved to reach the Easter Egg(s).

At this link--in the 2nd comment on the page--is a season-by-season list of the disc(s) on which you can find the Egg(s) for that season, how you navigate to the Egg(s) in the disc(s), & a short description of the content of the Easter Egg(s). There is 1 Easter Egg in each of Seasons 1-3 & 5-6; there are 2 Easter Eggs, 1 each on 2 separate discs, in Season 4.

http://www.tv.com/shows/the-west-wing/forums/dvd-extras-and-commentaries-296-253996/

[ChicksDigScars]

Good lord, season seven drags. I think it's because they devoted way too much time to the campaign trail. As much as I love Alan Alda and Jimmy Smits, I'd rather see the White House. Example...an entire live show devoted to a single debate? Maybe because I'm watching this in a real life election cycle, but I just couldn't watch a fake debate for a FULL HOUR when I'm already sick of the real ones.

A double edged sword. I want this season to move along, but I know what's coming (Leo), and after that, it's the end.

Oh man. Danny just said, "Banging the nanny." LOL. DAMN. I thought that I was getting a Josh Free episode. There he is. This season is way too heavy on Josh. Please Donna....don't bang him (I'm also one of the few that didn't want Ross and Rachel together, either).

Count me in on also feeling REALLLLLLY old with the whole "that guy playing Vinnick" conversation. :)

ETA: I really hate the celebratory feel of the Santos camp after a nuclear accident (where a guy DIED), gave them the boost that they needed. It was a little too smug and gleeful considering what had just happened. Oh, hell, what am I saying. Smug is Josh's middle name.

Don't get me wrong. I love Bradley Whitford, but Josh Lyman makes me want to throw projectiles at my TV sometimes.

Edited December 31, 2015 by ChicksDigScars

[Guest]

Season 7 is definitely my least favorite season.  This could change as I rewatch, but I missed seeing "our team" all together. It felt so disjointed for most of it and I absolutely loathed the leak plotline.

[betsyboo]

Season 7 is definitely my least favorite season.  This could change as I rewatch, but I missed seeing "our team" all together. It felt so disjointed for most of it and I absolutely loathed the leak plotline.

Seconded, with the exception of the talk-till-you-drop presser. Am a (fictional) political junkie and am a government PR person in real life. So all of the discussion about this was interesting to me.

[jaytee1812]

I liked season 7. I think probably because I liked most of the new faces.

I just watched Undecideds, I love when the guy from state figures out Ellie's pregnant and looks at CJ, Kate and Will like they're idiots. "... Am I the only one in the room with kids."

[ChicksDigScars]

The season redeemed itself after the election. Much more White House. I didn't hate the Josh and Donna stuff as much as I thought I was going to. Donna stood up for herself and didn't let Josh run all over her. I liked Vinnick as Secretary of State. And SAM SEABORN!!!

They managed to get so many people to come back for cameos at the end, but I did notice that during Santos' inauguration, that it wasn't Glenn Close giving the oath. They tried and shot the Chief Justice from the back, but you could tell that it wasn't her. Before the funeral, the episode where Glenn Close is named Chief Justice was the episode that made me cry. Of course, the ending and Leo's funeral ended up making me cry, as well.

[peggy06]

Just finished the series a few days ago, so this season is the freshest in my mind. Not one of my favorites. I'd say 6 and 7 are a big step down from the first four. Everyone criticizes 5, but I am fuzzy on where it starts and ends because of binge-watching.  

 

My main issue with 7 (which also affects 6) is non-investment with Santos and his team. Santos himself is such a Mary Sue (or Gary Stu, if I must). All the right (and righteous) positions, good-looking, perfect family. They tell us repeatedly that Josh is the second-best political mind in the country, after Leo. Then they proceed to have Santos' gut instincts succeed where Josh's fail. He can do no wrong. Helen Santos generally seemed to feel she and Matt were better than everybody else on the campaign trail. It bugged. 

 

Another thing I disliked about Santos was that he didn't value Leo properly. It seemed pretty obvious he didn't want Leo as VP and thought he was a drag on the ticket. For him then to speechify about having lost "a friend" really rubbed me the wrong way.

 

Basically, I didn't like that this plotline with these new people took so much away from the series regulars, during the show's very last season. Their storylines were cut short or left hanging. They were treated as lame ducks. For me, TWW was about the Bartlet administration. I don't care about the Santos administration.

 

There were some good episodes. The one about the nuclear crisis was well-done. Alan Alda did a good job as Vinick, but again, I don't care - also, another near-Stu. (Though he had more complexity than Santos.) I did find Donna and Josh to be surprisingly good. It was cool to have Josh reprise a visit to Sam at his firm.

 

Last but not least, I hated what they did to Toby. It had better be true that Richard Schiff wanted to cut down his screen time, because otherwise, the showrunners shafted him big-time. I also feel it should have been made clear that he did leak the info, or if he was taking the fall for someone else, who that person was. Horrible subplot all the way around.

Edited March 29, 2016 by peggy06

[AriAu]

It had better be true that Richard Schiff wanted to cut down his screen time, because otherwise, the showrunners shafted him big-time. I also feel it should have been made clear that he did leak the info, or if he was taking the fall for someone else, who that person was. Horrible subplot all the way around.

 

Richard did not want to cut back and was not happy with the plot line.....to put it mildly. A lot of it had to do with the almighty dollar. The ratings had fallen off and the show got shifted to Sunday night and the just did not have the cash to have all the high priced talent on every week.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/635154807/West-Wing-actor-bitter.html?pg=all

http://www.broadway.com/buzz/164754/richard-schiff-on-pacinos-method-tobys-west-wing-demise-and-coming-full-circle-with-glengarry-glen-ross/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/west-wing-trivia_us_55f1f0b8e4b002d5c078bac3

 

I felt that Santos came to respect Leo and they showed it in the episode "The Ticket" when they go into the conference room at the end to plan it out. Also, remember that they were a little hamstrung after JS died-little hard to push the relationship at that point.

 

I agree on the Gary-Stu comment since those characters, while interesting, were not nearly as nuanced as ones that Sorkin wrote. Might have had something to do with having to deal with 2 new characters and the end of the Bartlet White House time, but I think it had to do with the quality of the show runners and writers. YMMV

[BW Manilowe]

Just finished the series a few days ago, so this season is the freshest in my mind. Not one of my favorites. I'd say 6 and 7 are a big step down from the first four. Everyone criticizes 5, but I am fuzzy on where it starts and ends because of binge-watching.

My main issue with 7 (which also affects 6) is non-investment with Santos and his team. Santos himself is such a Mary Sue (or Gary Stu, if I must). All the right (and righteous) positions, good-looking, perfect family. They tell us repeatedly that Josh is the second-best political mind in the country, after Leo. Then they proceed to have Santos' gut instincts succeed where Josh's fail. He can do no wrong. Helen Santos generally seemed to feel she and Matt were better than everybody else on the campaign trail. It bugged.

Another thing I disliked about Santos was that he didn't value Leo properly. It seemed pretty obvious he didn't want Leo as VP and thought he was a drag on the ticket. For him then to speechify about having lost "a friend" really rubbed me the wrong way.

Basically, I didn't like that this plotline with these new people took so much away from the series regulars, during the show's very last season. Their storylines were cut short or left hanging. They were treated as lame ducks. For me, TWW was about the Bartlet administration. I don't care about the Santos administration.

There were some good episodes. The one about the nuclear crisis was well-done. Alan Alda did a good job as Vinick, but again, I don't care - also, another near-Stu. (Though he had more complexity than Santos.) I did find Donna and Josh to be surprisingly good. It was cool to have Josh reprise a visit to Sam at his firm.

Last but not least, I hated what they did to Toby. It had better be true that Richard Schiff wanted to cut down his screen time, because otherwise, the showrunners shafted him big-time. I also feel it should have been made clear that he did leak the info, or if he was taking the fall for someone else, who that person was. Horrible subplot all the way around.

Season 5 starts after Zoey Bartlet gets kidnapped in a DC club after graduating from Georgetown & having her drink spiked with GHB by her jackass of a supposedly French Royal/aristocrat boyfriend she hooked up with after breaking up with Charlie at some point after the shooting at Rosslyn. I forget where it ends (my forgetting being due to too little rewatching recently, not to binge watching too many eps together).

I respectfully disagree with your assessment of Santos' speech about having lost a friend when he went to the podium to talk about Leo's death while they were still waiting for the polls to close in the west, Alaska, & Hawaii.

Yes, it's apparently true Santos initially saw Leo as a "drag" on the ticket, because of his substance abuse history & perhaps other issues. But I do feel Santos also realized Leo was a highly-experienced politician in a lot of areas he wasn't where a president could use valuable assistance (think how the Obama/Biden ticket probably came together, though Biden may not have been a "drag" on the ticket in real life). I feel like Santos & Leo hashed out all their differences & Santos' issues with him on the ticket in that meeting they had in Santos' campaign offices in DC towards the beginning of the season; the meeting where Santos said he felt Leo was a "drag" on the ticket & which mostly ended where Leo explained to Santos how, really, a (mostly first-term) president only has 18 months to get his political agenda through, & then he has to start worrying about getting re-elected (or getting his party re-elected to hold the White House & control Congress after he leaves office) & actually campaigning for that (& not being in DC a lot, as such). After that meeting, as the campaign went on & by the time of Leo's death, I really think Santos came to respect (& like) Leo as a politician/trusted political adviser & a friend.

I'm sorry you didn't like when the storyline shifted from the Bartlet White House to the campaign to succeed him. Admittedly, many didn't (though I wasn't 1 of those who didn't).

The thing of it is, A) It was just dramatizing real life for a 2-term president in the White House--they must be replaced, by law, after 2 terms, & B) Without that storyline, we definitely wouldn't have gotten a Season 7 & we might not have gotten a Season 6 either (I forget if that was affected). The focus on the Bartlet succession storyline allowed them to use financially cheaper actors which, by that point in the series, helped the budget per episode a great deal as at least the majority of the Bartlet Administration-related cast had pretty high per-ep salaries by then.

Indeed, the series only got a Season 7 renewal by virtue of the producers agreeing to budget cuts & the actors who'd been around since the Bartlet Administration (& playing the Bartlet staffers perhaps as far back as Season 1) agreeing not to appear in every episode in Season 7, as they had in previous seasons, & each of them would sit out at least 1 episode apiece in the final season. Again, the season focusing at least half the time on the campaign to succeed Bartlet, which was staffed primarily by actors with lower salaries per ep than the Bartlet family & their current & former staffers (though the campaigns of Santos & the other Democrats, as well as Vinick's Republican campaign, each had someone who had, at 1 time, been involved with the Bartlet Administration on their staffs to maintain a sense of continuity in the show).

[peggy06]

Season 5 starts after Zoey Bartlet gets kidnapped in a DC club after graduating from Georgetown & having her drink spiked with GHB by her jackass of a supposedly French Royal/aristocrat boyfriend she hooked up with after breaking up with Charlie at some point after the shooting at Rosslyn. I forget where it ends (my forgetting being due to too little rewatching recently, not to binge watching too many eps together).

I respectfully disagree with your assessment of Santos' speech about having lost a friend when he went to the podium to talk about Leo's death while they were still waiting for the polls to close in the west, Alaska, & Hawaii.

Yes, it's apparently true Santos initially saw Leo as a "drag" on the ticket, because of his substance abuse history & perhaps other issues. But I do feel Santos also realized Leo was a highly-experienced politician in a lot of areas he wasn't where a president could use valuable assistance (think how the Obama/Biden ticket probably came together, though Biden may not have been a "drag" on the ticket in real life). I feel like Santos & Leo hashed out all their differences & Santos' issues with him on the ticket in that meeting they had in Santos' campaign offices in DC towards the beginning of the season; the meeting where Santos said he felt Leo was a "drag" on the ticket & which mostly ended where Leo explained to Santos how, really, a (mostly first-term) president only has 18 months to get his political agenda through, & then he has to start worrying about getting re-elected (or getting his party re-elected to hold the White House & control Congress after he leaves office) & actually campaigning for that (& not being in DC a lot, as such). After that meeting, as the campaign went on & by the time of Leo's death, I really think Santos came to respect (& like) Leo as a politician/trusted political adviser & a friend.

I'm sorry you didn't like when the storyline shifted from the Bartlet White House to the campaign to succeed him. Admittedly, many didn't (though I wasn't 1 of those who didn't).

The thing of it is, A) It was just dramatizing real life for a 2-term president in the White House--they must be replaced, by law, after 2 terms, & B) Without that storyline, we definitely wouldn't have gotten a Season 7 & we might not have gotten a Season 6 either (I forget if that was affected). The focus on the Bartlet succession storyline allowed them to use financially cheaper actors which, by that point in the series, helped the budget per episode a great deal as at least the majority of the Bartlet Administration-related cast had pretty high per-ep salaries by then.

Indeed, the series only got a Season 7 renewal by virtue of the producers agreeing to budget cuts & the actors who'd been around since the Bartlet Administration (& playing the Bartlet staffers perhaps as far back as Season 1) agreeing not to appear in every episode in Season 7, as they had in previous seasons, & each of them would sit out at least 1 episode apiece in the final season. Again, the season focusing at least half the time on the campaign to succeed Bartlet, which was staffed primarily by actors with lower salaries per ep than the Bartlet family & their current & former staffers (though the campaigns of Santos & the other Democrats, as well as Vinick's Republican campaign, each had someone who had, at 1 time, been involved with the Bartlet Administration on their staffs to maintain a sense of continuity in the show).

This is very interesting. I paid no attention while the show was actually on the air, so this is all news to me. That said, Alan Alda is a big star, and Jimmy Smits is also a fairly big name. They can't have been cheap. 

 

Regarding Santos and Leo, it's a case of telling not showing that Santos liked him by the end. The sad situation with John Spencer is of course partly to blame for that. But sometimes I felt like Santos didn't really pay attention to any political advisors, and thought he knew better than all of them.

[AriAu]

That said, Alan Alda is a big star, and Jimmy Smits is also a fairly big name. They can't have been cheap.

 

One of the problems with not watching a show in real time is that you miss some of the backstage melodrama. Our beloved cast banded together to get themselves massive pay increases, which, based on their acting and the success (critical and ratings) was deserved, and even threatened to hold out.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/west-wing-actors-focus-on-pay-awards-not-emmys-9153453.html

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,622270,00.html

By Season 6, the ratings had fallen off (mostly because Season 5 sucked or never happened or whatever, YMMV) and none of the characters were in the mood for a pay cut so the solution for Season 7 and a condition for making Season 7 was that  some of the higher paid talent take a few weeks off during the season and not get paid and that is why you saw a drop off in our favorites, other than Josh/BW.

I poked around and could not find the salaries of Alda, Smits or even the main cast for Season 6&7, but I recall that Alda and Smits were going to get less than Alison Janney, Richard Schiff etal

[BigBeagle]

I know a few million words have probably been written about Toby's exit storyline, and I really don't have much to add to the argument, but can I merely say I loved "Here Today," for no other reason than Richard Schiff (and Oliver Pratt) acted the hell out of that episode. If Schiff really hated the way his character was treated in Season 7, he sure didn't let it affect his work.

[BW Manilowe]

This is very interesting. I paid no attention while the show was actually on the air, so this is all news to me. That said, Alan Alda is a big star, and Jimmy Smits is also a fairly big name. They can't have been cheap.

Regarding Santos and Leo, it's a case of telling not showing that Santos liked him by the end. The sad situation with John Spencer is of course partly to blame for that. But sometimes I felt like Santos didn't really pay attention to any political advisors, and thought he knew better than all of them.

I went back & looked up what happened at the end of S5. It was Donna going along as part of a Bartlet Administration delegation to the Middle East & being critically injured in the IED-related bombing of the cars/2 of the cars in their convoy (which then had Josh taking the next flight to the US AFB in Germany where Donna was transferred for treatment & started his re-evaluation of what he wanted out of his relationship with Donna). Toby's ex-wife, Andi, the Congresswoman from Maryland was also with the delegation but unhurt in the bombing; General Percy Fitzwallace, Bartlet's friend & former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, was killed in the bombing. That was followed, in the season finale, by Jed & Leo being at odds over the right retaliatory action for the toll taken on their delegation.

You're right. Thanks to their starring turns in M*A*S*H, LA Law, NYPD Blue, & who knows what other series I'm forgetting, Alan Alda & Jimmy Smits probably weren't cheap; at least at first negotiation. But, as 1 of the other posters said, they did end up working for less than some of the established cast members on TWW, like Allison Janney. There's also the fact that their characters wouldn't be in every episode in their season(s) once they were signed, so that helped with the S7 budget definitely. And there's also the possibility that Alda & Smits just wanted to work on TWW, because it at least started as such a prestigious show (& today is still considered a classic by many, if not most), & would be willing to do so at any (reasonable) salary.

Yeah. Unfortunately John Spencer's untimely passing caused a lot of issues for the S7 storyline after about midseason. There's the telling, not showing, you pointed out in the growth of Leo's & Santos' relationship. They also had to rewrite stuff, to give scenes & lines originally meant for Leo to other characters. And I think a bunch of the stuff originally meant for Leo in the later S7 eps probably went to the character of Barry Goodwin, who was an older guy who was some part of the Democratic National Committee (DNC) & worked a lot with the Santos campaign.

And (I think) you're also right about Santos' behavior, at least initially, during the campaign. He did think he knew best--we saw him explicitly disregarding things Josh advised him on, like his intended education plan. And then, after he got smacked down for things, he reversed course & even started winning primaries.

[BigBeagle]

The Santos character gradually grew on me ... at first, I didn't care for him at all. I credit that to the writers and Smits finally getting a bead on the character.

[BW Manilowe]

The Santos character gradually grew on me ... at first, I didn't care for him at all. I credit that to the writers and Smits finally getting a bead on the character.

What I should've also said, & forgot, is that Santos going to the New Hampshire TV station & doing the live campaign ad, or whatever it was, pleading his own case to the viewers (& voters), also helped his campaign. At least initially.

Edited April 1, 2016 by BW Manilowe

[peggy06]

What I should've also said, & forgot, is that Santos going to the New Hampshire TV station & doing the live campaign ad, or whatever it was, pleading his own case to the viewers (& voters), also helped his campaign. At least initially.

That was one of the things I disliked. They made Josh stupid and Santos smart. It happened a number of times. Eventually Josh was worried that he was the problem with the campaign. What's the point of telling us how smart Josh is, politically - Leo's pupil, as well - and then a 3 term Congressman runs circles around him? I wish they hadn't seen the need to build up Santos at the expense of Josh.

 

[rippleintime17]

I like the Santos and Vinick storylines more and more each time I rewatch. It feels different but it's still good. And I LOVE Patricia Richardson. 

[PeterPirate]

It's been 10 years since Tomorrow aired.  

[Moose135]

Wow, hard to believe!

[Lillybee]

I am rewatching Season 7 to keep my self sane. That election was so dignified compared to what is going on today.

[BW Manilowe]

Actor Ramon de Ocampo who played Otto, the speechwriter for the Santos campaign (mostly, if not all, in S7), posted this picture I'm linking to/reposting for a "Throwback Thursday (#TBT)" post on his social media yesterday. I thought I'd share. If you don't see the pic, use the link.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BI_eerqBQCW/

[BigBeagle]

Now I has a sad, BW Manilowe

[GHScorpiosRule]

I haven't read the previous comments here, except for the first page, and I think I've forgotten them all because my brain is mush right now.

I have watched the first three of this season, and damn if Eddie/Victor Sifuentes/Bobby Simone isn't the most boring, pompous, self-righteous, unbearable Perfectness Presidential candidate evah. I am going to admit, that I am fast forwarding every stump speech and scenes with Janean Garafolo, who I've only ever liked in The Truth about Cats and Dogs, so if I've missed something important, I will rely on y'all to fill me in if some of my views are whackadoodle and if only I'd not fast forwarded, I would have known! I am watching all of Leo's scenes on the trail though. I don't give any figity fucks about Josh and Donna's star-crossed twu wuv, either.

Now, onto the show I thought this was supposed to be about:

First: WHERE in the FUCK is NSA DIRECTOR NANCY???? She's ALWAYS been in the meetings when dealing with what the military is going to do. Get Kate Harper off my screen, STAT. And where was The Admiral General Terry O'Quinn??? And when did the soldiers start "TEN-HUT!!!!!'ng" before Bartlet entered the Situation Room? They never did that during the first six seasons.

And based on CJ's face last season, I really thought she leaked the information, but based on her behavior and facial expressions this season, looks like it might not be her after all.

And GAG ME, CJ and Danny???? Shallow of me, but I liked BEN a lot more; not to mention, he's better looking and taller than CJ.

Just started "Mr. Frost" but had to stop, because I have to run out and run some necessary errands.

Like I posted in the mistakes thread, I hope I won't be "talking" to myself here!

[Guest]

I would talk to you more, but Season 7 is mostly a blur for me (I've only watched once - I'm doing a rewatch, but am only on Season 5).  I didn't love Season 7 as much, but I'm sure I'll get there. :)

[oceanblue]

I think the mystery leaker storyline is sadly a plot oriented way to give Richard Schiff time off set.  Toby would never do it.  He would be in Jed's face night and day and drive him mad. 

[Guest]

Oh yeah, that was Season 7. I think I'd blocked out the leak storyline. :(

[GHScorpiosRule]

3 hours ago, oceanblue said:

I think the mystery leaker storyline is sadly a plot oriented way to give Richard Schiff time off set.  Toby would never do it.  He would be in Jed's face night and day and drive him mad. 

I think I also read here, can't recall if it was this thread or some of the others, but Schiff did NOT want time off, but they massacred his character anywayz.

[Moose135]

5 hours ago, oceanblue said:

I think the mystery leaker storyline is sadly a plot oriented way to give Richard Schiff time off set.  Toby would never do it.  He would be in Jed's face night and day and drive him mad. 

If I remember, it was more of a budget thing, to limit the number of episodes some of the lead characters appeared in.  I never believed Toby would have been the leak - I always thought he was covering for someone else.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Finally finished this last night, and it went by quickly. Why? Because I fast forwarded all the ELECTION shit I didn't give two figgety fucks about.  I did watch Election Day, Parts I and II, because, John Spencer/Leo. I was prepared for it, so I didn't bawl, but there was a lot of dust in my eyes, and I had to blink. A LOT.

But what the FUCK, show? Did I miss it? Because I didn't see ONE SINGLE EPISODE after John Spencer's sudden passing, with a CHYRON of "In loving Memory of John Spencer." I thought we'd get it in Election Day Part II. Nope. Then maybe "Requiem." NOPE. Fuck you, John Wells. I"m PISSED.

This was not The West Wing. This was a backdoor pilot that lasted 3/4ths of the season.  And it was so memorable that I forgot I'd watched it. When I saw Matt and Helen visiting schools for the kids, I got a sense of Déjà  vu.  And then I remembered, I had watched this season sporadically. Because for some reason, I didn't remember Hawkeye Vinick being a good guy. But he really was.

Thank be to the TV GODS I was spared drawn out wuv scenes between Josh and Donna. I was really hoping both of them, facing away from each other, instead of, you know, being cuddled together after having sex meant they would realize there was nothing there but the idea of them. She still had on lipstick, NOT SMUDGED. And the dialogue about what/where they were going...JEEBUS CRIPES. Are they in high school????

Well, it's gratifying to know that my opinion of Melinda McGraw has been validated. Which is I loathe her and think she's one note. She was just as obnoxious as Braun or whatever the hell her name was here, as she was as Diane, the recast first ex-wife of Gibbs (Mark Harmon) on NCIS. I wanted to snatch her bald just for her trash talking Leo just after he died.

Eyes rolling over the drama that went nowhere about Santos paying child support for his niece. Zzzzzzzzzzz.......

So, Sifuentes/Simone Santos is this smart Congressman, who is suddenly playing with the Big Boys and seems like a fish out of water, to suddenly become this strong knows everything about everything once he's President-Elect? Mmmokay.

Another WTF moment when Sam, SAM! wasn't at Leo's funeral? What the FUCK, show? Just so you could do a replay from Season Two's "In the Shadow of the Gunman" when Josh finally found Sam at the NY law firm he was at? They could have had Sam at the Funeral and have the same scene in the next episode. So fucking LAME.

And NO CHARLIE and Ellie's Wedding? But all those other guest stars who we never saw again on the guest list? And even MORE WTF was not seeing Zoey or Liz.

Speaking of Liz, she gets more unlikeable with each viewing and episode. And her hubby was "banging the Nanny?" Why am I not surprised?

I'm going to have to do research and figure out where Dule Hill was, because he had that weird goatee going on and he couldn't have been filming Pysch, because he was clean shaven in the pilot and the show, and when he came back, same goatee until the series finale, where he was clean shaven again.

I'm running out of WTF's y'all! NO FINAL SCENE WITH TOBY AND BARTLET after he signed the pardon????!!!!!!! WTF?!WTF?!WTF?!WTF?!WTF?!

And the synopsis for the finale was wrong. It clearly states that "Bartlet and his team look back on their years in the White House."

This did NOT happen. 

And I was waiting, waiting, for the final scene to return to the opening scene from the premiere.

And to backtrack, I'm not sure what Stockard Channing was going for during the scene when Bartlet is sharing memories and stories of Leo after the funeral. She had this impatient look, like she didn't want to be there, that she didn't like the memories being shared. And then says "okay time for bed." He didn't look fatigued or tired. I will admit, my own personal experience and condition of a similar MS is probably blinding me/causing my bias. I have felt fatigue, have had numbness, not being able to see for periods of time, in addition to other health issues, so this treatment of Bartlet's MS as if he's near death's door if he stays up past 10:30 pm.

A BIG GIANT ROLLING OF MY EYES so HARD at Helen's continued thinking that now that she's First Lady, that life will still be the same for them. Not needing all these many butlers/maids/cooks, the initial choice to remain in Houston until June, and then resenting the security precautions. HELLOOOO!!!! You're not Congressman Santos's wife anymore. You are the FIRST LADY. Why she didn't talk to Abbey. I picture her as being comfortable as doing hostessy stuff, because she clearly doesn't convey to me that she would be a Hillary First Lady or Michelle Obama First Lady.

Josh just got more insufferable with each episode for me. And his losing his shit and yelling at Otto? And I don't know what the closed captions would have said during the network airing, and even Netflix's subtitles aren't accurate, but they had him saying "SHIT!" when he was looking for his blackberry.

But Sam! The Return of SAM!!!!! He was so missed and the show suffered for it. At least for me.

I'm not sure why I thought I read here that Sorkin was at Leo's funeral. I was looking for him and didn't see him.  But then saw him in the finale during the inauguration.

So what did I do after the plane faded to black?

I went back to the first season to cleanse my brain and palate after the shitshow of seasons 5-7.

I'm sure I've forgotten some things, but this was all swirling in my head which I had to get out.