S04.E07: Brotherhood

[AyChihuahua]

They need to bring in a new stunt dude. Sorry BamBam.

Don't be sorry.  He sucks at his job.

[hogwash]

So, everything about Diggle's helmet is super stupid. That was my big takeaway from those action scenes. I hate it. 

[Primal Slayer]

 

Lol see that they are still shooting for the moon

[catrox14]

LOL I'm just gonna pretend Speedy and GA can fly. 

[apinknightmare]

Lol see that they are still shooting for the moon

If they ever stop shooting for the moon I'll be truly upset.

[nksarmi]

Ok David Ramsey has a great episode.

 

I kind of liked Laurel and Diggle's scene - on a shallow note, Katie looked pretty.  All I could think all episode when it came to Laurel was "thank God they are having her encourage the hell out of Diggle" because in previous seasons she would have been condemning him and being a judgmental B even after what she did for/to Sara.  Oddly I can handle looney better than judgmental hypocrite.  So Laurel worked for me this episode.

 

Flashbacks kind of suck.

 

I kind of like having Ray in the fight and they have his character right now.  Looking forward to him on LoT.

[Guest]

 

Lol see that they are still shooting for the moon

 

And also it's really obvious that they're just pulled away rather than them jumping with any momentum. Seriously not great at all.

[Chaser]

I can't handle the FAIL. 

[catrox14]

 

kind of liked Laurel and Diggle's scene - on a shallow note, Katie looked pretty.  All I could think all episode when it came to Laurel was "thank God they are having her encourage the hell out of Diggle" because in previous seasons she would have been condemning him and being a judgmental B even after what she did for/to Sara.  Oddly I can handle looney better than judgmental hypocrite.  So Laurel worked for me this episode.

 

I'd rather she'd be a hypocrite here because then at least she would have finally realized that she did a really horrible thing.  For me, this is just the show's way of "approving" her horrible decision because now she's "relating" to Diggle. Ugh.

[TrueMyth]

I totally don't know technical things about directing like framing shots and lens choice, but things so often seemed OFF tonight.  There were many times when I felt like something should be a close-up or wide shot, and it just hung in middle ground, or when things were super in focus but with no real depth of field.  Ugh.

 

I also hate when the timing is messed up in the script.  Oliver and Thea are having an obvious day meeting with the campaign adviser when they get a call from Felicity about the tooth.  They rush out.  Cut to a night time raid on the company.  I suppose it takes time to plan and suit-up, but they exited with such conviction and urgency and flimsy excuses...

 

Also, they EXITED... shouldn't they just be sending him away and using the secret elevator to the lair?  Isn't that why they have the secret elevator in his office?

 

It's ridiculous that it's taken seven episodes to give flashback girl a name and some form of backstory.  If they really wanted the audience to bond with her, she needed that earlier.  Also, wasn't one of Oliver's first instructions to her DON'T MAKE A FIRE DURING THE DAY BECAUSE THEY WILL SEE THE SMOKE?

 

I liked the gala and loved Felicity beaming at Oliver.  I adored her talking him out of making another stupid choice.

 

I would have really loved Diggle brother flashbacks this episode, even if they were poorly shot.

[wonderwall]

This episode was written by Speed Weed (who I will give a bit of a leeway because he's new) and Keto (who is probably one of the worst writers on the show). 

 

So I'm not surprised how the episode turned out. 

[TrueMyth]

I did love the last scene with Malcolm and Thea.  He grew so serious when she brought up Dahrk and then he was positively tingling at the idea of messing around with dark magic with his daughter.  I mean, how awesome would that be for Merlyn?  Gain Dahrk's evil life drain powers (especially with the Pit now lost to him) while also helping out his baby girl with her pesky murder-rage dealio.  Not to mention the fact that they will do all sorts of fun Daddy-daughter bonding while pouring over the old necronomicons and such.  It basically ticks all his boxes.

[La Dee Da]

I thought there were good elements in this one, although I have to admit the only thing I took away from the fight scenes is that Oliver's short sleeves are definitely not combat friendly - nice job by the make up crew on his bruises! I'm curious how things will go with Andy - David Ramsey was great - I like the theory that he was caught as part of an infiltration plan, but his "kill the green one" line suggests he isn't completely gone.

The look on the lady's face when she overheard Felicity said "I approve this message" to me. Probably not the campaign strategy Parker had in mind!

Is it me or did Damien realized Oliver may be the GA.

Also I think he is positively sure Speedy used the LP, i wonder why his body reacted the way it did to her.. has to be the pit, obviously,

Whoever had Oliver in the HIVE "who is the Green Arrow" office pool is collecting tonight - no way Damian doesn't know now. I liked the Damian-Oliver confrontations but I would've like them circling each other a bit more - I assume Damian didn't immediately go after Oliver because he thought he was still a playboy lightweight.

On Thea, both she and Damian have LP experience (I think Ra's said last season that Damian stole some of the water when he defected, and presumably he's been using it). Malcolm said that those receiving the LP spa treatment absorbed the pain/angst of previous recipients - maybe LPers are able to transfer that suffering to each other? The fact that Thea overcame Damian freaked out both him and Malcolm - maybe there will be some weird League prophecy coming up? She's "the chosen one" or something?

[BkWurm1]

First off when someone lights a very large and deep pile of money on fire that the Star City bank really needs, could you please consider putting out the fire rather than just standing around and talking about it?  Only the top layer was on fire.  PUT OUT THE FIRE!

I am sorry but I don't believe for two minutes that Dig really would have wanted Andy resurrected knowing full well what it did to Thea and Sara. That was written SOLELY to give some kind of credence to Laurel's bullshit decision about Sara.  Diggle is not that selfish. 

 

I don't think he really thought about using the LP, just that its existence allowed him to day dream a little about a world where his brother was not dead. He also said that it was something that crossed his mind since Thea.  Clearly he never considered really acting on it. 

THIS.

It thought it was pretty obvious, so now DD knows Lance is working with the Arrow so he can feed them all kinds of wrong info.

 

If DD doesn't reveal it was a deliberate plant, my respect for him will have gone down.  Does he really seem like a post-it note kind of guy? 

They are going to need to shake things up at some point because I'm a little bored with the episodes opening with a truck getting broken into or whatever. I'm kind of bored seeing Quentin do the same walk up to DD's desk. And I'm tired of Oliver standing around while Laurel and Thea get focus out in the field. He's the goddamn Green Arrow and this is his show FFS. 

 

Word.

Yeah, I hadn't thought of it that way. And now DD either knows or is gonna find out that he's dealing with the LoA, and how far of a leap is it to figure out she's MM's daughter?

 

I really wonder how he knew to bring up Malcolm?  I guess I was thrown when he said Thea had been trained by Ra's and then asked about Malcolm. Pretty much didn't connect the two til just now.  He sounds like he has contacts in the LoA still.  So how the hell doesn't he know about Oliver?????

I actually forgot about the Ray scenes LOL but he wasn't terrible. Just goes to show what happens when you don't force a romance between characters where it doesn't belong. His excuse for not going back to the company was lame though. They're painting Ray and Sara to be two lost souls, both not really sure what they're doing with their lives now. The set-up is so damn predictable.

 

And predictably, I'm looking forward to it, lol.  ;)

Overall, I was more bored by this episode than anything else.

 

I loved DR because he is awesome, but Diggle's whole "My brother is EVOL and I will not be convinced otherwise!" spiel got old quick for me.

 

Laurel and Diggle scenes - I'm sorry. It still doesn't make me like her. And it tempts me to fast-forward over scenes with Diggle, which is not acceptable. 

I found Diggle's reaction to his evil brother very similar to how he reacted to evil Oliver last year.  Nope, no way of unbrainwashing him.  He is evil now.  Wipes hands of him. 

 

The think I kept thinking of during the Laurel scene it that take one like out about undead siblings and anyone could have had that conversation with Diggle.  Hell, you could still leave it in for Thea.  I know Laurel has to have something to do but I couldn't help think that it would have made more sense for Felicity to be talking to him while Oliver was off being propositioned by DD. 

Edited November 19, 2015 by BkWurm1

[quarks]

Combination of filler, camera work really really eager to show you that yes, the stunt people are making real body contact, and Hi! Are you aware that we're assembling a collection of heroes with no place else to go? Are you? ARE YOU?

 

But since that collection of heroes hasn't come together yet to TRAVEL THROUGH TIME and FIND A PURPOSE, this episode, which unlike seemingly most of you, I liked, first. 

 

Good things:

 

1. The Oliver and Felicity banter was on fire tonight. Ok, yes, it was a bit of a stretch to believe that even Felicity would say something like that at a formal event, but...it's Felicity, and the reaction stuff from the lady walking by was great. I'll allow it.

 

Also, Bingo.

 

2. But my favorite Oliver and Felicity moment had to be the bit where she listed off all of his lousy decisions, starting off with "join the League of Assassins."  I only wish we'd gotten the full list, not just the start of the list.

 

Plus, Felicity patching up Oliver again. Good times. Good times.

 

3. Also liked all of the other meta comments on Arrow's various ridiculous plots, including that no less than three people have returned from the dead recently on this show.

 

4.  And speaking of which, the other two recently returned from the dead characters did, at least, give a solid reason for why they'd all be on board with this "Bring Andy back!" thing since, let's face it, the other two were even more questionable. At least Andy a) wasn't actually a corpse and b) not someone who could easily be squished. So, you know, that.

 

5. Oliver and Diggle scenes. More of these, please. I particularly liked Oliver admitting that part of the reason he needed to rescue Andy was that he was still rescuing himself.

 

6. Malcolm Merlyn's idea of quality parenting: shove a picture of a pedophile at his troubled, blood-lusting daughter. Bonus points for throwing this scene right in the middle of a FAMILY MATTERS MORE THAN EVERYTHING episode.

 

7. Any episode that starts out with motorcycle stunts is going to make me happy. I'm here for those.

 

8. "Even you, Palmer." Speaking for us all, Diggle.

 

9. You've all been very very harsh on Poppy. I find this unfair. First, the girl can cook dead lizard. Felicity can't even cook an omelet. Second, Poppy is serving a valued, and, I think, greatly overlooked service on this show: finally, she has given me a reason to believe that Oliver would be desperate to get back to Laurel. I've been waiting four seasons for an explanation for this, so, thanks, show!

 

10. And a gleeful Damien Darhk just relishing giving pills so they'll kneel before him is my kind of villain. I was only sorry that he didn't say "Kneel before Zod." I felt that moment called for it.

 

Plus, it's now canon that Damien Darhk watches Disney movies. Does anyone else think he wakes up every morning singing "Be Prepared!" from The Lion King? Just me then?

 

11. And lots of Diggle - David Ramsey killed it this episode. Yes, he killed it in scenes that often did not make much sense, but let us not be too harsh.

 

12. And really liked that Oliver ended up not joining forces with Damien - especially after an episode where both Diggle and Felicity reminded him of what a bad move that was last season, which reminded me that I already saw that plot last season, and don't need to see it again.  So to have him announce that instead he will fight for his city - ok, yes, this is all going to end in tears, I know it, but for now, you go, Oliver, go you.

 

13. And to end the good stuff on a nicely shallow note, I, for one, would be happy to see Felicity Smoak in more dark jeans and red tops.

 

Questionable things:

 

1. The camera work. On the one hand, I do want to applaud Arrow this year for finally allowing its directors more freedom to stamp their own camera look on each episode. This one definitely felt different, and I appreciated the attempt to draw viewers into the action.

 

On the other hand, this meant a shift away not just from Arrow's general consistent look, but also, something it was regaining this season: scenes and shots framed to look like a comic book. Nothing here looked much like a comic book, or, for that matter, like a movie - Arrow's other goal. It often felt, well, small.

 

2. I see the flashbacks are going full on Indiana Jones! YAY! This does, however, raise a lot of questions, beginning with, but not limited to:

 

- When the hell did Oliver learn to use a bullwhip? That thing takes training, and as much as ARGUS was into the torture thing, I don't recall any bullwhips around.

 

- If that was actually cardamom and sea salt, where did Poppy get it, and why is she wasting it on dead lizard? If it wasn't, when will she learn that cardamon pretty much never leads to a funny joke?

 

- Why are drug dealers allowing themselves to be led by a guy who talks to sticks? How much of their own merchandise are they sampling?

 

- Why didn't everyone just kill Oliver on the beach, or at least try to kill Oliver on the beach?

 

- Why does the guy who talks to sticks like Oliver at all? Oliver's not sharing that gourmet dead lizard made with cardamon with him, after all!

 

- Is this group drug dealing, digging up mystical things, or talking to sticks? PICK A ROAD, EVIL FLASHBACK GUYS. PICK A ROAD.

 

3. Come on, political consultant guy. If you're such an expert, you should know that beach/port cleaning projects are the sort of feel good thing that all politicians talk about and then never ever do. Oliver's got serious problems as a candidate: saying something nice about cleaning up a port isn't one of them.

 

4. Pity Jeri Ryan couldn't return for this episode, especially since she got named dropped a lot.

 

5. So, Ray just gave out Oliver and Felicity's address so that Curtis could come by to drop things off?  Boundaries, Ray. Boundaries. We keep talking about this.

 

6. Did Diggle ever call Carly? Because I think Lyla was right - that really wasn't his call. As we learned last season, and the season before that, Diggle. If dead people aren't dead, tell other people about this.

 

7....which includes Ray. I know the actual answer to the question of "So, why isn't Ray working to get his death certificate altered?" is "he's going to another show," but, seriously here, Arrow, being legally alive provides all kinds of benefits, starting with, getting to have a driver's license, getting to use credit cards, getting to rent cars and stay in hotels, getting to have a passport - that sort of thing. I get that people like Malcolm can just buy up false identities, and Sara might have some fake ids around from her assassin days, but Ray is a good guy, and I didn't see Felicity creating any false identification for him.  What if he wants to buy a coffee at Starbucks and doesn't have cash on hand? Think of these things, Ray!

 

8. And speaking of Ray - dude. You were a billionaire with enough cash to buy up the retail chain Felicity worked at. You had three PhDs. You saved the city from a virus. What is this lack of legacy stuff? I know highly successful people can experience self doubt, and I know you need a reason to fly off to another show, and you want the audience to sympathize with you, but still!

 

9. After what happened at the club, why is Alex still talking to Thea? He should be wary and suspicious! I am wary and suspicious!

 

He's going to totally turn out to be evil, right?

 

10. Speaking of the club, remember season one, when Thea could be arrested for a DUI, and Roy for stealing a purse?  And now this season, where Thea beats up a man in front of witnesses, and....apparently no one even thinks of calling the cops? Full credit for consistency about the current incompetence/inadequacy of the Star City police force, I guess.

 

11. Is Damien really just going to allow Quentin to wander around despite not trusting him? This does not sound like Damien. Unless he is starting to learn things from those Disney movies!

 

12. And on a minor note I refuse to believe that Oliver actually got rid of all of his tuxes. Sorry. This would not happen on any of the 52 earths.

 

Bad things:

 

1. Does Arrow get some sort of discount when they rent out that storage container space? Because this feels like the umpteenth time they've used it - I know they used it back in "Canaries," and I'm thinking it's appeared at other points. It allows for some tight stunt fighting and explains why people on both sides end up finding it hard to come to the other person's rescue, and allows for some neat lighting techniques and bits of people jumping off storage containers - but it's also a rather dull background, and as tired as I am of "Oh. Yay. Another warehouse," I'm a bit weary of this, too.

 

Plus, since where are storage container locations bad guy hang out sites? There's not even any decent coffee around!  Go hang out at bars, bad guys!

 

2. So, Damien pretty much just letting Team Arrow have an address where they can rescue Andy, totally a trap, right? So, what I don't get is why no one on Team Arrow thought "Totally a trap." Even if it turns out not to be a trap, they still should have thought that. I'll give Thea a slight pass here since she's a bit younger, but Oliver and Diggle were supposedly trained in combat and strategy and have recognized traps before, and Felicity and Laurel have at least recognized the possibility of a trap before. This smacked of idiot plot.

 

3. So, is Thea just going to call up Damien every time the blood lust hits her, and go, "Touch me, Damien?" Because I just don't see that working out.

 

And now, Laurel:

 

It's a little Arrow miracle! An episode where Laurel had a - wait for it - actual thought for someone not named Laurel Lance! I know! I was shocked too. And an episode where Laurel - wait for it - helped to bring down bad guys and where her Canary Cry was actually - be prepared for the shock - useful! Sure, she also had to be rescued, because she's Laurel, and sure, Diggle and Oliver were amazingly quick to agree that she and Thea shouldn't be brought along on one of the missions, but let's face it, for Laurel, this is a major improvement!

 

Number of times Laurel failed as an attorney:  The show appears to have forgotten that she is an attorney. A policemen's charity event would presumably have been the perfect time for an assistant DA to point out what, if anything, the DA's office is doing in Star City (I'm going with "playing video games and drinking," or maybe "deeply regretting the whole law school thing") but instead Laurel just said that the police force was near death, like, thank you, one of three people in the show actually capable of doing something about this, and looked, well, looked like Laurel looks.

 

So that was nice.

 

Also, absolutely nobody in the group, after getting handed top secret government documents about the war on Afghanistan, thought to hand them over to the only government official there - a prosecutor, no less.

 

I laughed.

 

Number of times Laurel failed as a vigilante: 1) standing there posing and smirking, forcing another vigilante to rescue her by hitting a bad guy with a truck, like, THINK OF THE POTENTIAL DAMAGE TO THE TRUCK, LAUREL, 2) needing to get rescued during the infiltration of Wolfman whatever, 3) announcing, with Thea, that oh yes, she was joining the Let's Go Rescue Andy party and then stalking off without checking to see who else was coming along or if anyone had any kind of plan whatsoever.

 

Number of times Laurel failed as a human being: 1, saying sadly that the Star City police force, which her father works for, is dying, and then doing absolutely nothing to help it except show up and drink some club soda, 2, a rare, unselfish, kindly moment where, credit where credit is due: she pointed out, correctly, that she has been through what Diggle's currently going through, and gets it, almost immediately f llowed by Laurel immediately turning around and insisting that Diggle do everything for his brother the way she had for her sister, like, Laurel, doing everything for your sister got other people killed, or have we forgotten that already?

 

Oh, right. It's Laurel. Of course we have.

[La Dee Da]

Also, they EXITED... shouldn't they just be sending him away and using the secret elevator to the lair? Isn't that why they have the secret elevator in his office?

LOL - I just pictured Thea and Oliver casually walking out the door and then belly crawling back into the office and over to the broom closet or bookcase or wherever they've hidden the elevator.

[kismet]

I’ll put my thoughts down before I read everyone else’s. I called Vlad being related to Poppy. So predictable. The Gala was nice to see everyone dressed up. Still have no idea why the campaign is so important and expensive if he is running unopposed. I know he wants to motivate and give the city Hope. However, why not just do that while he is you know Mayor? SC really just needs to have a special election.  Silly Show. 

 

FS & OQ conversation was much ado about nothing because she made perfect sense in context. Ray was digestible. Self-Pity looks good on him :)

Andy was predictable. Glad Dig stopped dating Carly cuz that would have been wicked awkward even by Arrow’s standards. I loved that the cage made it to the new Lair.

 

Glad we’re taking the fight to the light. Calling it now that there will be a showdown at high noon OK-Corral style for the finale.

Thea needs DD to zap her blood lust away. I don’t understand it but I’m sure they’ll explain it sometime in the end. Glad MM got all dressed up to do a basic B&E into his daughter’s friend’s apt.

 

What was the big stunt that BamBam has waited 20 yrs to do? Because it all looked like standard Arrow stunts. Although it was nice to see one masked stunt person fighting off the bad guys at a time, instead of a lot of group shots.

 

And lastly, I might have teared up a bit when Dig said his brother needed him, the Green one :)

Edited November 19, 2015 by kismet

[BkWurm1]

Except for one scene with the freight containers, I didn't think there was anything really bad with the direction.  I could actually appreciate that the longer, uncut takes of the fights show off the skills involved better.  And "Thea's" fight into and out of the elevator was kind of different but all I could think of was how endless these fights were and how extremely disconnected they were from the plot.  Oh look, they've been spotted.  Again.  And now everyone is fighting.  Again. 

 

The whole purpose of the mission was to catch and carry Andy off but while Thea got to knock him out, then we never saw Andy again until in the cage.  How about some stakes in the fight, like see Thea struggling to carry Andy out of there.  Instead she leaves him behind I guess for Laurel to drag out?  It was all so disconnected.

 

What the show no longer seems to understand it that fighting and action all by itself is BORING.  It must have purpose and narrative and threat and context.  That's why Thea came off looking the best tonight.  She had an early fight where she ALMOST skewered the dude but didn't (narrative) which was followed up with her almost punching that guy to death (storyline)  and then she finds Andy (plot) and has an interesting confrontation with DD (twist!).  Everyone else just kicked and punched and shot arrows because it was time to do that. 

 

I guess the lone exception is when Diggle showed up and saved Oliver.  His line about being there to save his brother made me go awww!  And then just in case only idiots were watching, they made sure to specify the green one and it went from touching to sooooo cheesy. 

Edited November 19, 2015 by BkWurm1

[Primal Slayer]

 

What was the big stunt that BamBam has waited 20 yrs to do? Because it all looked like standard Arrow stunts. Although it was nice to see one masked stunt person fighting off the bad guys at a time, instead of a lot of group shots.

 

 

The Speedy vs. Ghost1Andy scene. 

[kismet]

Did laugh at Felicity whispering to Oliver about how he usually spends his evenings dressing in leather and tying people up.  The face of the lady that overheard was hilarious!

Fav moment of the episode... Just hysterical. Finally a good edit :)

[Primal Slayer]

The only disappointment i have about DD is that he has no sidekicks, no generals, right hand men. Even the best bad guy should have some competent people working underneath them to help them further their goal instead of a bunch of "ghosts"  that are interchangeable.

[Guest]

The only camera shot I liked tonight was the one of Oliver when he was on top of the building when they went to find the drug. I don't have a gif to illustrate but the way it zoomed up to him felt very 'live action computer game.' I'm pretty sure that shot was in one of the trailers at some point. 

 

The rest was a mess. I hope this is the only episode Bam Bam directs. I bet it won't be though. 

Edited November 19, 2015 by Guest

[Primal Slayer]

When we are going to find out about DDs partners that he mentioned at the beginning of the season? Gonna have to wait till the end of the season?

[SmallScreenDiva]

 

This is cute. When Oliver and Felicity were discussing his idiotic idea to go undercover with DD. It's a little thing, she just kinda pushes his hand away. It shows she's a little miffed at him but at the same time not seriously enough that they can't be playful with each other. I love them.

 

 

(felicitys.tumblr.com)

The only camera shot I liked tonight was the one of Oliver when he was on top of the building when they went to find the drug. I don't have a gif to illustrate but the way it zoomed up to him felt very 'live action computer game.' I'm pretty sure that shot was in one of the trailers at some point. 

 

The rest was a mess. I hope this is the only episode Bam Bam directs. I bet it won't be though. 

 

This one?

 

[Chaser]

I'm not sure how to explain it, but every time Bamford seemed to get creative with the camera it felt cheap. Less TV and more YouTube,

[KirkB]

Get us away from Laurel!

 

Seriously, what is supposed to be going on here? They fire their arrows at...something, and then get yanked up up and away. Is Superman flying by? Normally Oliver fires an arrow and slides down on it. What force is supposed to be propelling them?

 

My first when I was watching this scene was I expected Oliver to grab Laurel and carry her down like he's done before. My second thought was what the hell kind of boots is Laurel wearing, because they must give her some serious ankle support. She's not a meta. Jumping off the cargo container like that should have blown her knees out the top of her head.

 

I get what Ray was saying. He built the company and thought he'd filled it with people good enough to keep it going without him. Instead his board of directors couldn't carve it up fast enough and his chosen successor spends more time with the Green Arrow than she does actually running it.

 

Speaking of Oliver's nocturnal activities, how does he expect to be mayor when he's going to have to put stuff off all the time and run out in the middle of meetings to change clothes and shoot arrows at people. Which is what he'd really rather be doing.

Edited November 19, 2015 by KirkB

[wingster55]

I liked the episode...Ramsey was fantastic. The directing was different but I enjoyed it. Especially the Thea vs Andy fight.

 

finally, she has given me a reason to believe that Oliver would be desperate to get back to Laurel. I've been waiting four seasons for an explanation for this, so, thanks, show!

 

Wait, when? I missed this. 

 

Did Diggle ever call Carly? Because I think Lyla was right - that really wasn't his call. As we learned last season, and the season before that, Diggle. If dead people aren't dead, tell other people about this.

 

I can't really think of a reason in which he's able to tell without her asking more questions and compromising Oliver, Thea etc. 

[Guest]

This one?

 

 

YES! Thank you. I liked that. Mainly because it's focusing on Oliver for a change. LOL.

[BkWurm1]

And on a minor note I refuse to believe that Oliver actually got rid of all of his tuxes. Sorry. This would not happen on any of the 52 earths.

 

My fanwank was that while all the furniture and art in the house was sold off, Oliver's clothing was still being stored in his closet at Queen Manor.  That got burned down.  Bye, bye, tuxes. 

 

I loved that the cage made it to the new Lair.

 

And is in the garage part of the lair.  Also, still no toilet or even a bench to sit on.  Even Sara got an old couch cushion when she was shackled in the basement. 

[kismet]

I did laugh at DD calling Thea "Merida" and wondering if it was past her bedtime. Haha.

Seriously, between this & OUAT did I miss the resurfacing of Brave? It was a cool movie for a Disney movie, but it was 3 yrs ago...  I blame Outlander for everyone trying to get on the Scottish bandwagon.

 

I guess it was too expensive to use Katniss...

[statsgirl]

Between the naming of Felicity Smoak last week, the address clue, the break-in to grab John Diggle's brother and the woman in red leather having been trained by Thea Queen's bio dad, there is no way DD doesn't know the Green Arrow is Oliver Queen. A blind man in a snowstorm could have seen it.

Ray's little crisis doesn't make any sense to me. Why wouldn't he want to save his company? Was it going under before he died or something? Is that why he thinks his work is worthless?

Other than the obvious i.e. stalling Ray till his new show starts, I can kind of see it.  He loved Anna but not even his company could save her. He build a Atom suit so he would never again lose someone like that and instead it blew up and he was trapped in an upside down fishbowl.  Stuff like that could really make a person question his calling.

 

DR killed it in this episode. Some great material for him. And I kind of love how black and white he was. There was no changing his mind. Part of me really admires that, even if it is his brother.

I loved it too, how black and white  he was. It's so Diggle, it's what helped Oliver when he first started to get to know Diggle but it's also holding him back here.  It's also making it harder to know what to do about Andy.

 

I really liked the reference to his "brother in green" someone he was still willing to get into a fight for unlike his birth brother.  Yay for their fight being over.

 

I liked how well Oliver took Felicity listing all the great ideas he's had over the years (nice smile by SA showing Oliver's sense of humor and self-deprecation).

 

I really like the idea that Thea is somehow immune to DD's magic.  It's about time someone is.

Also, nice acting by Barrowman when Thea told Malcolm how the bloodlust was gone.

 

Who the hell wrote this episode? It was sooooo bad.

Keto Shimizu and Speed Weed.  She really like Laurel and it showed here because Laurel got some good stuff, the initial canary cry that shocked the bad guys, the fight sequences, and the scene with Diggle. And Katie Cassidy really looked gorgeous at the policeman's benefit.

[kismet]

Oh yeah…what was he talking about?! I must have missed something.

This is my meta translation for BamBam's preview to what he actually delivered.  

[BunsenBurner]

Seriously, between this & OUAT did I miss the resurfacing of Brave? It was a cool movie for a Disney movie, but it was 3 yrs ago...  I blame Outlander for everyone trying to get on the Scottish bandwagon.

 

I guess it was too expensive to use Katniss...

She's an archer with red hair. Thea is an archer with a red suit.

[kismet]

I know this is sacrilege... But I miss the flashback wig :p

I called it... I've been missing it since 402 ~ Who knew we would want to the LP the wig so soon? It was not the prettiest of wigs, but even on its worst days it still was a better actor than Poppy.

[wonderwall]

Wait, when? I missed this. 

 

It's a joke. Poppy is so stale, and boring, and just doesn't work which is the reason why Oliver wanted to get back to Laurel when he was on the island.

[Jediknight]

Whoever had Oliver in the HIVE "who is the Green Arrow" office pool is collecting tonight - no way Damian doesn't know now. I liked the Damian-Oliver confrontations but I would've like them circling each other a bit more - I assume Damian didn't immediately go after Oliver because he thought he was still a playboy lightweight.

It was Janice in accounting, she knows her Olivers and she don't give an f.

Edited November 19, 2015 by Jediknight

[kismet]

I wonder if touching Damien or whatever only worked for quelling Thea's bloodlust because he's a mass murderer? Otherwise there's a huge plot hole because Sara and Thea could just hug each other all the damn time. Problem solved.

Hugs being the cure for bloodlust is probably the best answer ever. Love does conquer all...

[kismet]

Ray is now gone too.  Basically another variation of the "I have to go find myself" excuse.  At this point, I feel like the Legends of Tomorrow spin-off will start with Ray, Sara, Snart, and Martin Stein backpacking in Europe or something.  Just being one with nature!

There were those intstagram BTS shots of the hike in the mountains... Just saying it could happen.

 

I'm actually really enjoying RP existential crisis. I think self-pity & quasi-depression look good on him. At least it shows a little human in him. He was a tater-tot for 6 months and he literally had no one he could turn. No family, no friends, no nothing, just an ex-gf who left him for a broke guy on a hopeless mission. Probably didn't even a bowl of ketchup he could swim in... if that doesn't make you depressed - I don't know what would.... At least he learned to throw a punch while he was hanging out with the cockroaches.

Edited November 19, 2015 by kismet

[kismet]

 

Lol see that they are still shooting for the moon

Love the Peter Pan Stance on OQ. Hysterical. Hey shoot for the moons and at least you'll land in the stars.

[statsgirl]

I'm sad to say, I really think the lack of the flashback wig is affecting SA's characterization of fb Oliver.

 

Speaking of hair, I was glad to see Lyla show up and she's still the greatest but that side part doesn't work so well for AMA.  [/shallow]

 

Oliver having no tuxes left is just very bad lack of foresight on his part.  Granted Queen Manor is gone now but couldn't he have moved at least one tux to the lair for safekeeping along with his other clothes and things?  Also, I hope Felicity buys him a tux rather than rents it because he's going to need one that fit properly for future functions.

 

More seriously, while I'm glad that they're giving Bamford a chance to direct, they really went overboard with the praise in contrast to the episode Lexi Alexander directed, which was much better but got practically no p.r. It makes it still feel like an Old Boys Club on the directing front.

 

So Oliver was kinda/totally talking about himself during that fight with Diggle, right? "I need to know we can come back from that darkness." I hope that means he's gonna start do murdery/evil stuff in the flashbacks.  I want my nutty, closed-off spree killer Oliver, you worthless flashbacks. I'll take any hint these flashbacks are going somewhere. Though I'm kinda enjoying no one believing that dude whose name I forgot trying to out Oliver as a shady spy even though it's super freaking obvious he's right.

I think that was a nod back to the season premier where Oliver told Felicity he didn't know how to fight the darkness without becoming part of it, and Amanda Waller told him to embrace his darkness in the flashbacks.

 

I foresee the light vs dark theme (Darhk, groan) become more prominent this season.

 

And it's annoying we never get to see the daily confabs between Digg and Felicity where they discuss Oliver's latest terrible plan. But I appreciate the ongoing references to the fact that Felicity/Digg often discuss O's stupid ideas off camera and flip coins (my head canon) for who's going to try to talk him out of the latest one...

I'm just happy that they're talking again after last year's silence and being on opposite sides in the Oliver Identity Crisis.

 

 

9. You've all been very very harsh on Poppy. I find this unfair. First, the girl can cook dead lizard. Felicity can't even cook an omelet. Second, Poppy is serving a valued, and, I think, greatly overlooked service on this show: finally, she has given me a reason to believe that Oliver would be desperate to get back to Laurel. I've been waiting four seasons for an explanation for this, so, thanks, show!

As usual, you are right.

 

And not only can she cook, she knows to season it with ingredients she found locally.  Even Oliver, when he was on the island, only had cooked vs uncooked.

[kismet]

She's an archer with red hair. Thea is an archer with a red suit.

I got the joke... I was being sarcastic. I just thought it was a little of out of date... It could be that I think there was a Hunger Games promo with Katniss in a colored hood on tonight. But it's funny none the less.

[kismet]

I know I am the only one that watches the flashbacks ~

 

But did anybody else find OQ facial reactions during the Poppy scenes when he revealed that he killed her brother odd? He looked like he couldn't wait to leave and not because he felt bad - but because he couldn't take her crying like it annoyed him. Perhaps it annoyed SA, I don't know. I was expecting just a little remorse, guilt or something. Instead it was like he was counting the secs down until it was over. He was phoning in most of that cave scene.

 

Kudos to the show for finally saying Poppy's name. Shame it only took them 7 episodes.

Edited November 19, 2015 by kismet

[Starfish35]

Halfway through: it looks like I'm the minority, but I thought Laurel's makeup looked terrible at the benefit. I really hate that scarlet lip and spider eye look. Katie Cassidy is someone who I always think looks much better with a more natural look.

ETA: isn't it nice when villains monologue about their plans out in the open when there can easily be overheard?

Edited November 19, 2015 by Starfish35

[tarotx]

The filming of this episode was so unpleasant. I literally had a headache for hours. I hate the team fighting. It's always shot poorly.

I think the actors were good and David very good but even some of the non action shots were filmed with what seemed like a guy running around with a camera. If you want to shoot as if the characters are being filmed I need that to be part of the episode. Otherwise it's nerve wrecking when you want to feel the emotional moments.

[Starfish35]

Overall....that wasn't as bad as I expected.

The bad:

- I would still happily excise anything having to do with Laurel (the Canary cry and the speech to Diggle being the two main cringe moments).

- The filming of the Oliver/Diggle fight at the docks was terrible. I hate shaky cam, and that was really bad. The other fights weren't as bad as that, but I didn't really see what was supposed to be so great about them either.

- The flashbacks. I can already see it coming a mile away - Taiana is going to find out Oliver killed her brother and turn on him.....wait, I think I've already seen this story. I'm mildly interested in whatever it is Reiter's after, but it's surrounded by so much other boring stuff I can't bring myself to care too much.

- I'm really not buying the Thea/what's his name romance. I don't know that I'd mind the guy so much by himself. But I kinda wish they'd not made him a love interest for Thea. :( Roy, you need to come back. Please?

The good:

- Thea. Sorry, Diggle. But I came away from the episode far more intrigued by why Damien had such a reaction to Thea and what Thea and Malcolm might be plotting than about anything to do with Andy.

- Ray. I agree that Ray and Felicity have great chemistry when they're not trying to make it romantic. So I thought his scenes were good. I did wonder where he learned to fight all of a sudden. Last season he needed Oliver driving the suit to fight like that. Maybe he had nothing else to do in his glass cube but practice his fight moves? Lol.

- Oliver deciding not to go undercover with Damien - good choice.

I am going to reserve judgement on this until I see how it plays out, but it seems almost certain that Quentin was set up. Now I don't have a lot of faith in these writers these days, but that was just a little too obvious. So we'll see if there's some actual payoff for that. It occurs to me that perhaps the worse thing that Damien is threatening is to turn Quentin against his will - turn him into one of his slaves.

I'm also intrigued as to why Damien wants Oliver to leave the bay alone.

I guess, though, that I am a little disappointed that, for a Diggle episode, I ended up not caring very much about Diggle's storyline. I'm not sure that's ever happened before. Perhaps if we hadn't known that Andy was alive? I don't know. But somehow I was having a hard time making myself care about that part of the story.

Edited November 19, 2015 by Starfish35

[bijoux]

Stupid forum eating posts so that I don't know who I was replying to anymore.

 

I feel let down once again because Diggle's episode isn't as strong as it should and could have been much like The Suicide Squad last year. I'm just couting the missed opportunities.

1. Not including Diggle's flashbacks. This was the perfect time to give us something about Diggle right after Andy's death or about their relationship prior to it. It's not like what we got was either interesting or connected with the present storyline. It could have been pushed back a few episodes.
2. Not using the party better. Everyone is dressed up, you've got extras. Use that. Whispered confabs, people freaking out when theey see Oliver leaving with Darhk but they have to keep up a front. I mean, there was good stuff - leather and bondage, Quentin's laugh at GA endorsing Oliver, Oliver and Darhk. I just wanted more of it.
3. Not using Lyla better. Come on! Although I liked her new hair cut and the fact that he costume department put her in the sae sweater she was wearing when Oliver kidnapped her for their first meeting since then. Nice one.

 

I feel like Dig's adamance about being done with Andy validated his black and white view of the world, and his quick decision to hand Roy over for killing Sara. It made me understand his stance about Roy better in retrospect. Loved his scenes with Oliver. The bromance is going strong. And they both got something from the other. Dig being less rigid and Oliver chosing a different strategy. Felicity and Dig really tag teamed on him in this episode.

[wingster55]

It's a joke. Poppy is so stale, and boring, and just doesn't work which is the reason why Oliver wanted to get back to Laurel when he was on the island.

Ah. Well I'm sure that'll also be retconned as well.

[looptab]

Nobody on Team Arrow, or Lance think it's a setup that Darhk would just leave a note with an address laying out?  Darhk's playing them to get Andy in their base, and destroy them.

 

Very disappointed that no one thought it could be a trap.

 

 

This is cute. When Oliver and Felicity were discussing his idiotic idea to go undercover with DD. It's a little thing, she just kinda pushes his hand away. It shows she's a little miffed at him but at the same time not seriously enough that they can't be playful with each other. I love them.

 

 

(felicitys.tumblr.com)

 

This scene was lovely!

 

My first when I was watching this scene was I expected Oliver to grab Laurel and carry her down like he's done before. My second thought was what the hell kind of boots is Laurel wearing, because they must give her some serious ankle support. She's not a meta. Jumping off the cargo container like that should have blown her knees out the top of her head.

 

Hey, a couple months of boxe training will give you all kinds of abilities, like jumping through windows onto helicopters, and iron joints.

 

It wasn't the worst, but sadly it didn't left me as excited as I thought it would. David Ramsey was great, and I loved his scenes with Oliver, Lyla, Andy, even the one with Laurel if I forget it was with Laurel. But yes, I'm one of those who ended up not caring that much. There were moments in the episode I liked, but I didn't like as much the episode as a whole. 

 

Poppy is the worst.

 

Why did Felicity call Ray to the loft to work on the tooth? Wouldn't it make more sense to have him at the lair?

 

The secret elevator has no purpose, it's not like anyone can use it while all those interns are there.

 

I am mostly lamenting that they have left us with a lackluster (IMO) episode before a hiatus. Like, there are certain parts I haven't caught at all, and I'm not even interested in rewatching them. 

Edited November 19, 2015 by looptab

[bijoux]

Prior to this episode I was just neutral on Taiana. She was just there, so whatever. But the scenes in this episode were so very, very bad. So, I'm completely on board the this-actress-sucks-in-the-role train. Will Oliver fall into the same pattern as he did with Slade when he didn't tell him how Shado died?

 

I honestly don't mind Ray's existential crisis, even if I howled at, "So they renamed the city in my honor. Big whoop." The wealthy are a species onto themselves. He's had six months to fight being strangled by cockroaches and avoiding dust bunnies so they don't squish him. He's had a lot of time to overthink things. But I very much objected to "not going back to the same useless thing" he was doing before. Which he says when Felicity, who is right there, is doing that same thing because he left her in charge of it. It felt really douchy.

 

 

Halfway through: it looks like I'm the minority, but I thought Laurel's makeup looked terrible at the benefit. I really hate that scarlet lip and spider eye look. Katie Cassidy is someone who I always think looks much better with a more natural look.

ETA: isn't it nice when villains monologue about their plans out in the open when there can easily be overheard?

 

I don't mind the dark lip, but it was too much all put together. I wouldn't mind any of it if she would just put her hair up in the field. Think of the neck sweat. Ugh.

 

Yeah, that's the first scene Neal McDonough didn't manage to sell Darhk to me. It was just so lame and unneccesary. The monologue could have been severely cut down. Just have him say something vaguely ominous about the pills and zoom in on the damn things before the Ghosts swallow them down. Darhk being a Disney fan on the other hand? Totally works for me. I bet he had an existential crisis after seeing Scar bein eaten by hyenas.

 

Alex's lack of reaction the day (or days?) after Thea attacked a guy in public was weird. She was justified from my POV, but she didn't explain what happened to him. She only asked for time. And he's okayish with this? What?

 

One positive thing that came out of this is that I'm not so against Andy being alive anymore. His and Dig's last scene's got me interested in seeing where it goes.

 

Didn't Thea not just deflect Darhk's whammy but turned it back on him for a few moments? So, basically, their strategy should include Thea going over to Darhk and shaking his hand to incapacitate him, giving the team the chance to take him down.

[looptab]

I just hope Thea is going to tell Oliver what happened with Darhk, instead of relying only on Malcolm. But I'm now at that point where even if she doesn't, I'm going to be okay with it because the only consistent thing of these first 7 episodes is that Thea is awesome. So there.*

 

As an aside, why do they even bother giving the bad guys shooting weapons, if they are not gonna fire them and prefer standing around waiting to be hit? FFS

 

*Ok, is not the only consistent thing. There are other two: Oliver and Felicity are also being awesome, and the FBs sucks. But the point still stands, Thea is now untouchable. :)

Edited November 19, 2015 by looptab