S05.E08: Birth

[HoodlumSheep]

^ and Emma held a knife to his throat when they first met. So does that mean I should be worried for Hook?

*grabs popcorn*

I loved this episode. So good. Who knows, maybe some of the plotholes will actually be explained in the next episodes. You never know. Maybe we'll get lucky. They could solve them with the classic Once logic, but at least that means they would have somewhat thought about the issues.

Edited November 17, 2015 by HoodlumSheep

[FierceAfroChick]

Season 2 when he was working with Cora, it happen more than once as I recall.

 

That was foreplay.

Edited November 17, 2015 by FierceAfroChick

[kili]

I wasn't entirely clear whether any wound whatsoever, even just a scratch, from Excalibur was fatal or it was just that wounds from Excalibur don't heal, which means that you might go on with a chronic wound if it's non-mortal, but a mortal wound is permanent, no matter how much magic there is.

 

I don't have the transcript, but Merlin seemed to me  to know exactly what Killian was sufferring from and that he was about to die and nothing could be done about it  (but that actually something could be done about it).

 

If it's the former, then you'd think he'd have said something before sending Team You Had One Job off to get it -- "You might want to wear gloves when handling it, just in case." If it's the latter then he still should have warned them

 

That's true. He should have warned them to not touch the sword while trying to retrieve it. You send a bunch of people, some of them who have no magic, to go retrieve a sword from a very angry man and you don't warn them that even a scratch from that sword could end their lives? Was he trying to get them killed? Even at his near worse, Killian was quick to tell the gang about the "unservivable" poison in Neverland.

 

What exactly is Merlin's problem? No wonder Arthur is a complete whack-a-doodle. Imagine putting up with this guy's nonsense for the last 30 years. If Zelena is responsible for Neal's death, how many deaths is Merlin responsible for.? "Oops."

 

"Oh, I'm sorry your entire family died retrieving the sword, Emma. I guess I should have warned them not to touch it. Oh well. Sucks to be them. Or not them since they are dead. Shall we get right on forging the dagger and sword into one? No, of course I'm not forgetting any possible side-effects or bad things that might happen if you do so. Why would you even ask?"

 

We used to complain about Dark One Rumple not explaining the possible bad outcomes of his magical deals. He's Mr. Informed Consent compared to Merlin.

Edited November 17, 2015 by kili

[YaddaYadda]

Zelena has now spent more time with Dark Emma than her own parents. That's sad.

 

The only reason her parents went near her house was because Emma had Zelena.

[jaytee1812]

That was foreplay.

Don't ever call me honey.

And that's only foreplay if a replationship is abusive.

Anyway the writers have sacrificed what could've been an interesting story about Emma being dark, for a pathetic love story. Seriously, this is all about Hook? Hook? Really? Emma cares more about him than her child, her brother, her parents? Really?

Thank god for Merida, she's been the highlight of this half season.

The only reason her parents went near her house was because Emma had Zelena.

Emma's never been shown to care much about them so maybe they're taking the hint. It's only about Hook for her.

[HoodlumSheep]

That's true. He should have warned them to not touch the sword while trying to retrieve it. You send a bunch of people, some of them who have no magic, to go retrieve a sword from a very angry man and you don't warn them that even a scratch from that sword could end their lives? Was he trying to get them killed? Even at his near worse, Killian was quick to tell the gang about the "unservivable" poison in Neverland.

What exactly is Merlin's problem? No wonder Arthur is a complete whack-a-doodle. Imagine putting up with this guy's nonsense for the last 30 years. If Zelena is responsible for Neal's death, how many deaths is Merlin responsible for.? "Oops."

"Oh, I'm sorry your entire family died retrieving the sword, Emma. I guess I should have warned them not to touch it. Oh well. Sucks to be them. Or not them since they are dead. Shall we get right on forging the dagger and sword into one? No, of course I'm not forgetting any possible side-effects or bad things that might happen if you do so. Why would you even ask?"

We used to complain about Dark One Rumple not explaining the possible bad outcomes of his magical deals. He's Mr. Informed Consent compared to Merlin.

This is why I'm comparing him to the eagles in the hobbit/lotr.

He could have warned them or emma what was about to happen if she reunited the sword. But nah, let them find out for themselves. Apparently Merlin doesn't like interfering too much,

[Mathius]

Emma's never been shown to care much about them so maybe they're taking the hint. It's only about Hook for her.

 

Honestly, I think you have things in reverse.  Emma's taken the hint that the others don't seem to care much about her (it's all about Regina for them), but Hook does, so she's responding accordingly. 

Edited November 17, 2015 by Mathius

[FierceAfroChick]

This is why I'm comparing him to the eagles in the hobbit/lotr.

He could have warned them or emma what was about to happen if she reunited the sword. But nah, let them find out for themselves. Apparently Merlin doesn't like interfering too much,

 

Now that I think about it, he did tell Emma that sometimes acceptance meant being strong (I think that was the line) and I'm wondering if he was talking about her accepting Hook's death.  If he saw it, then he wouldn't have warned her anyway.

[kili]

Emma's never been shown to care much about them so maybe they're taking the hint. It's only about Hook for her.

 

Just in this episode, she used all her magic and talked Merlin down from killing Snow giving her boyfriend enough time to save Snow (at the cost of his own life). 

 

Last season, Emma's mission was to overturn the timeline and set things right. The year before, she ended up in prison when she saved Snow's life by taking out a Black Guard. She gave up her life in New York to save a family she didn't even know she had. She jumped in front of Cora to save Snow from having her heart ripped out. Those things all sound like caring.

 

But perhaps this should be taken to one of the all seasons or relationship or character threads if it is not going to be about this episode.

[Shanna Marie]

That's true. He should have warned them to not touch the sword while trying to retrieve it. You send a bunch of people, some of them who have no magic, to go retrieve a sword from a very angry man and you don't warn them that even a scratch from that sword could end their lives? Was he trying to get them killed?

Unfortunately, this is a case of the writers' strings showing, and logic and character are sacrificed. If Merlin had warned them, then they would have known it was a bigger deal when Hook was injured, so we wouldn't have had the big, shocking moment when he collapsed. Maybe the way around it would have been if Merlin had been just as shocked as everyone else because he didn't realize this, and he was spitballing about the effect. As it was, it came across like, "Oh yeah, forgot to mention that."

 

The parallels between Liam and Killian are pretty strong here, aren't they? Sent on a mission to get something potentially deadly without being warned of the danger, dying of what would have seemed to be a mere scratch, magically saved, but with strings.

[Randomosity]

Well, Snow kind of dotes on the woman who has repeatedly tried to kill her, her husband, and her child, so Emma really is like her mama.

And Snow seems to like knocking David out with blunt objects, so I guess that relationship is all sorts of unacceptable too? Guess David shouldn't have fallen in love with her either. So Emma is like both mom and dad...

[Randomosity]

I don't have a problem with love, I have a problem with a powerful woman becoming a pathetic mess for a man who tried to kill her

I hope that I and those I love ARE pathetic messes when faced with each others imminent deaths. It's human, for the powerful or not. What should she have done? Said "Peace out, Jones. We had a good run," high-fived him, and gone merrily on her way while he died?

And I still don't get the "tried to kill her" thing. Like when they had a swordfight? That's not trying to kill someone, that's trying to ensure things go according to your plan. Plus a swordfight takes two, so that's a second time Emma tried to kill him. Three if you count abandoning him with the giant.

Edited November 17, 2015 by Randomosity

[HoodlumSheep]

The situation with the non-lethal/lethal wound Killian got (which I'm fine with by the way) gives me deja vu. It reminds me of the Lizard incident in Wonderland. Basically, the universe was extra grumpy that day. Wonderland had a much better handle on the "price to pay" for using magic though.

[Curio]

Here's a possible loophole to the whole why-didn't-Hook-notice-he-was-seeing-Dark-One-mentors-in-his-head-the-whole-time: maybe the writers pulled a The Sixth Sense on us and some of the scenes we've watched between Hook and Emma throughout Season 5 have actually been Dark One Emma inside Hook's head. So instead of Dark One Rumple constantly badgering Hook in his head like he has with Emma, Emma has been secretly visiting Hook alone to make it seem like she's there in person, but she's actually in his head. Thus, why they've had so many scenes alone together.

 

(I know, I know. It's a long shot.)

Edited November 17, 2015 by Curio

[FormerMod-a1]

But perhaps this should be taken to one of the all seasons or relationship or character threads if it is not going to be about this episode.

 

Yes, that would be wise.  And appreciated.  Let's keep on topic of this episode here.

[HoodlumSheep]

Here's a possible loophole to the whole why-didn't-Hook-notice-he-was-seeing-Dark-One-mentors-in-his-head-the-whole-time: maybe the writers pulled a The Sixth Sense on us and some of the scenes we've watched between Hook and Emma throughout Season 5 have actually been Dark One Emma inside Hook's head. So instead of Dark One Rumple constantly badgering Hook like he has Emma, Emma has been secretly visiting Hook alone to make it seem like she's there in person, but she's actually in his head. Thus, why they've had so many scenes alone together.

(I know, I know. It's a long shot.)

You know, that's similar to my theory, kind of.

First, I liked someone else's idea that his DO magic was sealed when the sword was put back in the stone. So the sword was only pulled, like, yesterday, so maybe Hook's mind just hasn't been visited yet. Plus the whole no-memories thing may have helped keep some of the stuff at bay. Aren't dreamcatchers supposed to keep the nightmares away too? Maybe Emma has been funneling the mind!worms into the dreamcatcher...

Okay, I got off track.

My theory was that The Dark Swan is basically substituting in for Mind!Rumple. Instead of an internal force bugging him, an external force is. The thought of Emma as the Dark Swan has literally been haunting Hook since they returned to Storybrooke. That's pretty much the equivalent of Clippy!Rumple haunting Emma. With his mind so much on Emma (who is a DO), I can see Clippy!Rumple not showing up.

Edited November 17, 2015 by HoodlumSheep

[Rumsy4]

Now that I think about it, he did tell Emma that sometimes acceptance meant being strong (I think that was the line) and I'm wondering if he was talking about her accepting Hook's death.  If he saw it, then he wouldn't have warned her anyway. 

 

This passivity is so in odds with him inventing dangerous spells and powerful magical objects. It makes him look like a douche-canoe. 

 

Zelena has now spent more time with Dark Emma than her own parents. That's sad. 

 

The only reason her parents went near her house was because Emma had Zelena.

 

At this point, everyone has had more interactions with Dark Emma (including the dwarfs and random Merida) than her parents.

Edited November 17, 2015 by Rumsy4

[HoodlumSheep]

This passivity is so in odds with him inventing dangerous spells and powerful magical objects. It makes him look like a douche-canoe.

Is it weird that I strangely get Howard/Tony Stark vibes from Merlin's inventions. they're all initially good-intentioned, but when actually used they cause some sort of disaster. Also, Merlin's mind might be firing on all cylinders with all the stuff that's probably filling up his brain, so he could have been using his invention-making, spell-creating skills as an outlet of sorts.

Just another random thought that's crossed my mind.

[PixiePaws1]

New writer (do we still call her that since she's been there a while now)...confirmed this.

.

https://mobile.twitter.com/cheekycharl29/status/666121886863110144

sorry ...can't seem to get the top tweet with the swearing out

.Don't mean to offend.

Edited November 17, 2015 by PixiePaws1

[Shanna Marie]

Maybe we're giving too much of the blame for writing down all the dangerous spells to Merlin. Some of that could have been the Apprentice, who was just a kid, probably naively taking notes on what his Master was doing. Then we have to give some blame to him for not destroying those books when he had a chance.

 

It probably doesn't matter much, but I'd be curious to find out what happened to the Apprentice between the time Merlin was treed and the next time we see him guarding the hat. Where does the creation of the hat fit into the timeline, what does any of this have to do with the mansion, and why are Merlin's books still in Camelot when the Apprentice was elsewhere all this time?

[Curio]

It probably doesn't matter much, but I'd be curious to find out what happened to the Apprentice between the time Merlin was treed and the next time we see him guarding the hat. Where does the creation of the hat fit into the timeline, what does any of this have to do with the mansion, and why are Merlin's books still in Camelot when the Apprentice was elsewhere all this time?

 

I'll take "Things That Would Have Been More Relevant to the Plot Than Merida's Backstory" for $1000, Alex.

[kili]

It probably doesn't matter much, but I'd be curious to find out what happened to the Apprentice between the time Merlin was treed and the next time we see him guarding the hat.

 

The last time he saw Merlin, Merlin told him to go check on the brooms. When we see Mickey 200 years later, he is sweeping. When we seem him again 200 years later, he is sweeping. When we see him again 70 years later, he is sweeping. So, it appears he takes Merlin's instructions very seriously. I wonder if the curse gave the poor apprentice a vacuum cleaner.

 

When Merlin gives you instructions, just follow them to the letter and don't ask questions. The road to crazy-ville beckons to all those who are inquisitive.

[Helena Dax]

I like the idea  that Hook is always fighting his darkness and  that's the reason he didn't  feel or act any different. I'm not sure that's the reason the  show will give us,  though, because it looks like the writers just wanted  to surprise us with the reveal and that's it.  On the other hand,  what a reveal! Although I've shipped them since their first scene  together,  I'm  not worried about Killian's reaction. It's just an obstacle. You can't have happy couples  all the time because then it gets boring. Eventually, everything  will be  fine again. And  I have the feeling  that Rumple  will be the Dark One again at the  end of this season, because a Rumple without  powers... What's the point? With his new heart, he wouldn't have to worry about dying  any time soon.

 

Merlin's pretty useless.  Hot, but  useless. 

 

Loved to see Whale again. I didn't know he was going to show up.  

 

I agree that Regina shouldn't have tried to force Emma to face her feelings, but I don't think that means she's a bad friend. I mean, she was  honestly trying to help Emma. I think it was realistic, in the sense that she's new in the "doing the  right thing" stuff.  

[thuganomics85]

Honestly didn't see that coming.  It never even occurred to me that there good to be two "dark ones", and that the other one was Hook all along.  But it actually kind of makes sense and explains a lot.  I can totally see that being the reason Emma would wipe everyone's memories, because there would be no way she would want him or anyone else to know this.  And I certainly could buy that she was willing to embrace more of the darkness to save him.  Either him or Henry would cause that.  But now that Hook knows what he really is, I expect shit is really going to hit the fan now.  Can't wait to see how everyone reacts to this news.  Especially Rumple, who I imagine will be more in the "He's a Dark One?!  Well, fuck!  I am so screwed!" direction.

 

Merlin needs to quit being so damn cagey.  He had to have known Excalibur cutting Hook was going to kill him.  Had he told them earlier, maybe they all would have been more prepared and approached things differently.  He had to have known Emma seeing Hook dying like that would make her get desperate and go for whatever solution was possible.  Get it together, Merlin...

 

Dr. Whale!  Great to see him again.  David Anders was a blast in all of his scenes.  Loved them addressing his different look, since he really look like Blaine from iZombie, with a doctor's coat thrown on him.  Would probably be too much to have Rose McIver show up as Tinkerbell again though, since she's actually the lead on that show.

 

Dark Emma's plan with Zelena was stone-cold, but I kind of loved it.  Making Zelena into the Dark One and then just kill both the darkness and her.  Pretty nasty, but I can see the logic behind it!  Of course Zelena would escape though.  She's like a cockroach.  A smirking, smug, delightfully evil, well-dressed, Rebecca Mader-looking cockroach!

 

Glad to see that Arthur is perfectly fine with just running like hell from Charming and crew, and leaving Gwen behind. I mean, sure it is Charming and it's not like he'd do anything bad to her, but what if he was Evil Charming, for all Arthur could have known?  Oh, Arthur.  No anniversary present would make up for that.  Then again, you might not need it since you current marriage is all based off of a love potion.

[HoodlumSheep]

It probably doesn't matter much, but I'd be curious to find out what happened to the Apprentice between the time Merlin was treed and the next time we see him guarding the hat. Where does the creation of the hat fit into the timeline, what does any of this have to do with the mansion, and why are Merlin's books still in Camelot when the Apprentice was elsewhere all this time?

There's probably less than a 10% chance that any of these questions will be answered.

:(

Now that I think of it. Why would a tree have a mansion in Storybrooke?

[snarkybelle]

WTH The writers are really doing a number on the relationship between Mary Margaret and Emma.  It seems MM has no faith in her daughter whatsoever after the comment, “There might not be any Emma, not anymore.”  They seem to want MM to build a better relationship with the woman that called her a cockroach few episodes back rather than her daughter.  MM was the first one to try to use the dagger on Emma to stop her from killing Merida - she doesn’t believe Emma can overcome the darkness. 
Then Regina forcing her to tell the truth to tear down her walls but then she says, “It’s not my fault that it’s painful.”  Uhm, yes it is.  It’s her fault she grew up an unwanted orphan who built walls to keep from being hurt.  Bagelfire just put the nail in it. 
It was interesting when Zelena asked Emma who should be killed, her boyfriend or her father.  I think Zelena has observed enough of their family dynamics to see that Emma cares about those two the most out of the Excalibur retrieval team. Arthur ordered Merlin to kill her mother but he hasn’t spent enough time with them to understand their relationships.
I hope 5b explores why their relationship has soured, especially how MM feels toward Emma.    Why was Charming the one who was angry that he felt helpless when it came to helping Emma.

[Rumsy4]

Now that I think of it. Why would a tree have a mansion in Storybrooke?

 

Almost spit my drink. haha. So in addition to building a Tower in Camelot, Merlin had a vacation castle in the EF? :-p

[ParadoxLost]

Now that I think of it. Why would a tree have a mansion in Storybrooke?

 

ROFL.  For somewhere to store his books of course.  I wish the writers had asked that question because the logical conclusion is that the blank OUAT books are made of Merlin. 

[chrisvee]

I'm having a hard time deciding whether Merlin is an idiot or evil...Or did he want Hook to become the Dark One and he's at the Dumbledore levels of pawn manipulation?

I'm pretty cynical about Merlin. I figure he was betting that Hook wouldn't succumb before Emma de-darkened herself. He knew if he told her in advance she wouldn't shed the power until she had saved Hook.

Edited November 18, 2015 by chrisvee

[ParadoxLost]

I'm pretty cynical about Merlin. I figure he was betting that Hook wouldn't succumb before Emma de-darkened herself. He knew if he told her in advance she wouldn't shed the power until she had saved Hook.

 

Merlin only has magic because he was taught manners and had no choice but to drink or die even after seeing his companion die. Merlin's power is basically that of 'Please' and "Thank You'.  I wouldn't think any Machiavellian strategy is going on in that head of his. 

Edited November 18, 2015 by ParadoxLost

[Curio]

Then Regina forcing her to tell the truth to tear down her walls but then she says, “It’s not my fault that it’s painful.”  Uhm, yes it is. It’s her fault she grew up an unwanted orphan who built walls to keep from being hurt. Bagelfire just put the nail in it.

It's irony like this I wish the writers would explore, but I'm 99.99% certain they don't even realize exists.

 

It was interesting when Zelena asked Emma who should be killed, her boyfriend or her father. I think Zelena has observed enough of their family dynamics to see that Emma cares about those two the most out of the Excalibur retrieval team. Arthur ordered Merlin to kill her mother but he hasn’t spent enough time with them to understand their relationships.

 

I didn't even think about that, but this description is spot on.

 

Now that I think of it. Why would a tree have a mansion in Storybrooke?

 

I read this in the same voice Robin used when he said, "Why would a cat want a hat?"

[JanelleBelleDearie]

I've only seen the first ep so far, and what I'm reading I'm glad I decided not watch them back-to-back. I thought the CS scenes from "Birth" were cute individually but I was really starting to feel smothered by all the fluff. The Dark Hook twist at the end though was actually very well-done. I knew something was up when we never saw Emma's name on Excalibur/DO Dagger once they were reunited.

A surprise I never saw coming this season was actually enjoying Zelena. Her ever-present snark and partnership with Arthur and Hook of all people is what made this episode refreshing amidst the CS love-fest. Also her outfit change in both timelines was fire lol.

Was not a fan of Emma's lack of reaction to Snow getting strangled and rushing to heal her BF's little owie afterwards. Dr. Whale was great, and MindRumple mocking Merlin's accent was everything.

Edited November 18, 2015 by JanelleBelleDearie

[Randomosity]

I read this in the same voice Robin used when he said, "Why would a cat want a hat?"

 

That one line is my favorite thing that Robin has ever done :D

 

Other random thought that popped into my head - so Hook is all rage-y that he's the Dark One. But back in the day, when he was out to get revenge on Gold/Rumple, had he killed him, Hook would have become the Dark One then anyway, right?. I mean, I know he changed and wanted something different for himself once he got involved with Emma, but still, he had to have a spent a loooong time in the mental space of anticipating being the Dark One; you'd think he'd handle it a smidge better now that he is one.

[BoPeeps]

OK. I surrender! Sort of.

 

Since the writers continue to produce scripts that mock the intelligence of their loyal audience and ignore their own character progressions and "Master Storytelling", I'll duplicate that spirit and treat the show with a level of shallow viewer respect they have earned. I will no longer give a hot damn about the sheer WTF idiocy of these episodes with their crater-sized plot holes and morality shredding bi-polar character twists.

 

It is much easier that way. Watch from a totally casual spectator sport view. No deep concern or emotional attachment. No driving desire to make sense of the unfolding story and characters brought into my TV life. Kind of like their writing. (cough)

 

All the writers' hallucinogens aside. (heh), the things I adore about the show apparently are accidental moments of wittiness, good visual casting (mostly) and flashes of thoughtful, imagination-inducing story potential. ( And, oh yes, pretty kick ass costuming.) The potential is dashed to dust too often. I don't think these creators are talented enough to tackle that.

 

I will gladly continue to read (and appreciate) everyone's much more intelligent input, speculation and "what ifs" about this half-assed adventure. That is the real genius involved here.  But, for my own head rattling, eye rolling sanity...

 

"Imma gonna keep it simplistic"

La la laaaa.

 

My Request: Just give me Colin portraying the Passionate Pirate/Hook/Killian/Killy /Dark/Light smudgy- eyed smoldering sexpot in ANY realm with any hair part and any costume and I will still watch this holy mess of a freaking show.  He is the bright spot for me.  So for that, A&E and the powers that be...thank-you!  You understand THAT at least.

 

There are several other talented, appealing actors doing a great job with flawed material as well, but Colin's emoting as Hook is apparently all that it takes to really satisfy me now that they have given him his grand passion back. He raises the acting bar and satisfies my shameless inner-gut eye candy needs. His portrayal makes my senses smile and not much else fucking matters in the long run (grin).

 

Episode specific: Aside from the eternally *Stupid* which permeated this episode...

 

I am intrigued by the moment/concept of Emma's turning Killian Dark out of sheer and deeply emotional love.  If I had her power and saw the love of my life dying in front of me, I'd try anything, too.  Selfish or not, that was rather edgy and very painfully cool. However, I have no trust in the writers to intelligently handle the depth of feelings they have created . SO I will go with what they offer because...well, what other choice is there?

 

I am enjoying the bipolar possibilities of Emma, the vulnerable as well as the Eyore-voiced Darkish One. (There is a lot of deep seeded repression in her soul and portraying that is an actress' dream. Gotta be rewarding for her.) Talking with Hook about *moving in with him* to that luscious house, fearing that level of intimacy and also actually having the two of them butt heads was quite contemporary and real as opposed to the normal cooing of true love. But I also liked the schmaltzy smootches and nuzzling. Go figure!

 

Whale took me totally out of the show, but, made me laugh appreciatively. His wall splat was just as entertaining as his girly twirl during his last *delivery*. Regina looked gorgeous as always but I didn't listen much to what came out of her mouth. Rumple is the most fun when he is pure, scaly Rumple.  Arthur is pretty but would better suit everything if he was just King Joe...and not having anything to do with Camelot. He and Merlin are lip-curlingly misrepresented legend-wise.

 

I'm still hanging in there...but..ok, I skipped S9.

Edited November 18, 2015 by BoPeeps

[Shanna Marie]

Other random thought that popped into my head - so Hook is all rage-y that he's the Dark One. But back in the day, when he was out to get revenge on Gold/Rumple, had he killed him, Hook would have become the Dark One then anyway, right?

Only if he killed him with the dagger. That was the hard part: finding a way to kill him without the dagger, when the only way to kill the Dark One was with the dagger, which meant turning into the next Dark One. Thus the elaborate plot involving dreamshade poison and tracking Rumple to a world without magic where he'd have no power and be unable to heal himself.

 

And just think, if they'd let him do it then instead of moving heaven and earth to save Rumple (who, let's face it, had it coming and needed killing), they wouldn't be in this mess right now.

[Rumsy4]

Other random thought that popped into my head - so Hook is all rage-y that he's the Dark One. But back in the day, when he was out to get revenge on Gold/Rumple, had he killed him, Hook would have become the Dark One then anyway, right?

 

Hook only attempted to kill Rumple using Dreamshade. That wouldn't have made him the DO.

[Ikki]

A fun thing to do with this episode, as I learned from talking to a friend, is to try to summarize it to someone who no longer watches the show.

Then end your summary with, "And that's what you missed on Glee."

[Randomosity]

Hook only attempted to kill Rumple using Dreamshade. That wouldn't have made him the DO.

 

 

Only if he killed him with the dagger. That was the hard part: finding a way to kill him without the dagger, when the only way to kill the Dark One was with the dagger, which meant turning into the next Dark One. Thus the elaborate plot involving dreamshade poison and tracking Rumple to a world without magic where he'd have no power and be unable to heal himself.

 

And just think, if they'd let him do it then instead of moving heaven and earth to save Rumple (who, let's face it, had it coming and needed killing), they wouldn't be in this mess right now.

 

My bad, I didn't remember the intricacies of Dark One murder. Thanks.

[Randomosity]

Watch from a totally casual spectator sport view... No driving desire to make sense of the unfolding story...

 

Word. That's how I roll too, though sometimes a few WTFs are just too WTF-y and I get stuck on them.

[KAOS Agent]

You don't really need to be in high analysis mode to watch the events unfolding and go, huh? Like when Robin died twice in "The Price" everyone was all we'll help and there's hope! Don't worry, you've got this! Then here those same people were saying, "No hope. Just die. Let it happen." That's like watching a football match where for the first half, the team tries to score and then for the second half, they all do jumping jacks while the other team does whatever it wants. It doesn't require you to make sense of it, so much as ask you to completely shut down all memory of how the game is actually played.

[chrisvee]

My Request: Just give me Colin portraying the Passionate Pirate/Hook/Killian/Killy /Dark/Light smudgy- eyed smoldering sexpot in ANY realm with any hair part and any costume and I will still watch this holy mess of a freaking show.  He is the bright spot for me.  So for that, A&E and the powers that be...thank-you!  You understand THAT at least.

Can't argue with that.

[YaddaYadda]

If I'm Emma, I'm not just pissed at Zelena for her part in all of this. And we know how she was going to handle what Zelena did. I'd be hella pissed at Merlin too.

 

In the end, they've shown Arthur to be right. Merlin speaks in half truths.

 

I can actually interpret that look he gave Hook back at the end of 5x05 when he saw him. He knew Hook would become a Dark One, so he knew this mission was destined to fail because of "something". Since he didn't foresee what Zelena would do, and had no idea how they got from point A to point B, he kept all of this to himself, probably hoping that he could change the future.

 

Merlin is an asshole.

[Dianthus]

Now I'm curious about how Killian came to possess Liam's survivor ring. We know he didn't kill Liam, and Liam wasn't wearing the ring when he died, which is presumably part of why he died. Was it a gift? If so, did Liam know/believe in what he was giving up? Killian seems to think the ring is special. Presumably Liam would've said something to foster this belief? Would Liam have laughed off the idea of a magical ring, considering the magic all around them? Did Killian take it? It's possible, tho' it seems unlikely.

[kitticup]

My head cannon is that Liam gave the ring to Killian when he was very young. I am assuming Killian was a cabin boy and his ship Amy have been sent to battle. Liam gave the ring to alleviate Killian's fears and possibly protect him. He may have told him it was ring his mother gave him that she said was imbued with magic.

[PixiePaws1]

Was i imagining things (always a possibility at my age! )

but did Emma only use light magic when fighting Merlin

.not gold or grey...it looked only white to me..

[HoodlumSheep]

^ they probably just wanted to differentiate the 2 magics. Although, she technically was trying to save her family, so that might be why it was white light.

[YaddaYadda]

Question;

 

Did Robin say Zelena was 2 months pregnant?

[Curio]

Did Robin say Zelena was 2 months pregnant?

 

That's what I heard.

 

So, any guesses on what the heck Emma was doing with Excalibur out on the front lawn? Did she put a protection spell over the house and trap Snow, Charming, and Regina there too?

[Rumsy4]

So, any guesses on what the heck Emma was doing with Excalibur out on the front lawn? Did she put a protection spell over the house and trap Snow, Charming, and Regina there too?

 

It's the other way around. She was putting a protection spell to keep them out. You can see a sort of shimmer between Regina and Emma for a moment there.

[PixiePaws1]

That's what I heard.

So, any guesses on what the heck Emma was doing with Excalibur out on the front lawn? Did she put a protection spell over the house and trap Snow, Charming, and Regina there too?

I had forgotten about that! Do you think it is set so Killian can't get out if things went badly after she told him her plans? Or was it to keep Zelena contained if something went wrong with giving her the Dark magic?