S05.E07: Oriole

[MamaMax]

Kind of a weak episode. I think separating Quinn from the major plotline was a very bad decision. He shines with Carrie and the rest of the CIA. I don't give a damn about Syria at this moment.

 

I hope that Saul's defection at the end will have major consequences, because I, for one, didn't expect it. 

 

I didn't like it that Allison turned out be a Russian spy from the get go. She does feel too emotional for that. It's hard to believe a person who's been a successful double agent for decades would have such weak nerves.

Was she, though?  Or just the highest ranking they had turned?

[beeble]

I seriously want to know Allison's - sorry Alluchka's - make up routine because she looks amazing. Honestly - I've spent good $$ on concealer that doesn't do what hers does, and she has a stressful damn life.

 

Guy who fakes own death lives in big house on busy city in Amsterdam and doesn't have a security system, besides little yappy dog. It's not like you keep anything important in that house that big guys and be-wigged ladies are going to search for.

 

Quinn looked like shit. Like beyond hungover, is using every ounce of strength not to faint. Nice directorial touch. 

 

There were at least two old actor metaphors here. What are they trying to tell Mandy Patinkin?

[Pallas]

Does Dar mean Allison? Or Carrie?

 

Carrie. Since Adal was introduced, he has mostly been at loggerheads with Carrie, and disparaged Saul's reliance on her. When Adal half-furiously and half-contemptuously tells Saul that he always said she would bring Saul down, Saul's "Fuck off" acknowledged that history. Also acknowledged by both men, once Adal invoked Carrie: that Adal must have either bugged Saul's room, or, worked with Alison to work him over.

[lucindabelle]

This is painful to watch. If the season ends with some kind of cliffhanger instead of Alison getting her comeuppance I'll be beyond annoyed.

yes, Saul is sleeping with her, but since he knows there's a mole, why the eff is he trusting ANYONE? He should be thinking like a spy, going down the list of possibilities.

Dar would make no sense but Alison would.

I'm glad Carrie only got that "da" means russian, not that it's Alison, because only on TV do people recognize who it is from one word alone.

 

I think During is up to no good.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Circling The Drain
Allison's plan is going down the toilet as Carrie plunges headlong into the search for a former asset.

[Joimiaroxeu]

So why the hell is Saul so blind to it all?

I'm still not convinced that he is.

 

When Dar was giving his spiel in front of the CIA goons how Saul was to be returned to the US with no detours, I thought I saw him giving a tiny smile/wink to Saul. But when the "kidnappers" turned out to be Itai's and not Dar's, I was confused. Is Saul a double agent now with Dar's cooperation, or did he really defect to Israel fair and square?

I don't think Saul is actually defecting and whatever is going on, he and Dar are in on it together despite there apparently being some longstanding bad blood between them.

 

And I still can't figure out why she turned on her own country?

Isn't Allison Russian? As others here have speculated, I think she probably grew up in the U.S. and managed to make her way into and up the ranks of the CIA via some careful long-term planning.

 

Carrie's recklessness

Is she still off her meds?

 

I think During is up to no good.

Me too. He's got too much of a Prince Charming thing going on, IMO.

[VioletMarx]

I'm not sure that this Saul ever existed on Homeland. Yes, Saul has had long term strategies (S3 with Iran, for example), but we the viewer have always been privy to his strategy. Homeland has always played the viewer straight. This is not 24 or (barf) Alias where the viewer is constantly being surprised by conspiracies within conspiracies within....

 

Having Carrie institutionalized and all that happened around that was a Saul/Carrie long con that we didn't initially know about.

 

 

Well all we can hope for is Allison walks into a room at the end and is confronted by Saul and Carrie and gets a case of explosive diarrhea.

 

I literally lol'd.

[lucindabelle]

I SO hope you all are right about this being a long con.

It would make sense and has even been foreshadowed a little bit with the previous Dar-Saul convo and Saul yelling at Alison. I would LOVE that.

But I was hoping for a long con in that awful Pine Creek Pinewood whatever it was dystopian thing too but nope, it was just that dumb.

Still-- we can HOPE! That would go a long way to redeeming the whole season.

[ladle]

Is she still off her meds?

 

 

I'm confused about this.  My understanding of Carrie's disorder was that once you have it, you really need to be on meds for the rest of your life.  You can't just wean yourself off and miraculously be fine.  At least, isn't that what Carrie's father and sister kept emphasizing in the earlier seasons?  But I have no personal knowledge of this, so I could be wrong.  

 

And, hey, I'm still confused about how they all blew up at the end of last season but emerged unscathed, so what do I know?  

[lucindabelle]

She does need to stay on her meds. She deliberately went off them for a few days, yes, her disorder is one you need to take lifelong meds for... As you fo for diabetes, rheumatoid arthritis and numerous other illnesses. The difference is that carries symptoms will be mental.

[Noirprncess]

My question is, Saul knows that somehow the Russians have infiltrated so he had the offices swept for bugs and nothing panned out there. So wouldn't he try to figure out exactly how they had access without bugs?

Allison had been pitting Dar and Saul against each other. Think about it, two guys who've had a shaky, long term "friendship" where some level of distrust exists. It's always been implied that they were more frienemies than besties. So it does stand to reason that Allison knew just which buttons to push with both of them to bring out their claws against each other. She's that proverbial devil on the shoulder.

I guess Homeland writers figure you need one annoying character per season, so Laura is it this season. Her annoying focus on publishing the docs without some level of thinking pits her as more reckless than anyone else IMHO. She had no grasp on the largest picture of who gets hurt in all of this.

[MochaJay]

Isn't Allison Russian? As others here have speculated, I think she probably grew up in the U.S. and managed to make her way into and up the ranks of the CIA via some careful long-term planning.

 

That's possible, but it is only speculation. I think rather that Allison and her handler started off as counterparts that came into contact through working for their respective agencies - the Cold War is over and there are areas of interest where Russian and American interests aligning (especially before the rechilling of the last few years). The show is demonstrating a few examples of cross-nationality relationships this year, between Saul and Etai's old friendship and Quinn & Astrid. Astrid doing favours for Quinn / Carrie has compromised her in a small way and Allison perhaps started off being only slightly compromised. Through careful handling that has changed until she is fully a Russian asset.

 

My question is, Saul knows that somehow the Russians have infiltrated so he had the offices swept for bugs and nothing panned out there. So wouldn't he try to figure out exactly how they had access without bugs?

Allison had been pitting Dar and Saul against each other. Think about it, two guys who've had a shaky, long term "friendship" where some level of distrust exists. It's always been implied that they were more frienemies than besties. So it does stand to reason that Allison knew just which buttons to push with both of them to bring out their claws against each other. She's that proverbial devil on the shoulder.

 

I think your second paragraph answers the first. Saul has been so angry that Dar was accusing him that he hasn't calmly thought about who knew about the kill box (which potentially could be a couple of people if protocols for contracting Quinn were in a destroy-in-emergency asset list in a safe like the one Lockhart handed over in Season 4) and could also have known about the Syrian general plot. Maybe once Saul calms down and works it out the Israelis will tale Allison and end up rescuing Carrie if that phonecall at the end of the episode leads to a trap.

 

The message they've all been so worried about Carrie seeing is that her old informant saw that "dead" guy walking around, right? So why isn't her informant dead? They'll do anything to avoid her seeing a piece of paper but leave the actual person with the info alive and well?

When I first saw the episode I was just impressed that the writers figured a way to that the documents were only a problem for Allison if Carrie saw them, and missed this plothole until you pointed it out. The best explanation I can think of is that Allison knew Carrie was Oriole but not the identity of Touchstone, but I think that doesn't so much solve the plothole but move it to the question of why Allison was so convinced that Touchstone would tell Carrie about the lawyer being alive, rather than any of a thousand other possible bits of intelligence.

[Kel Varnsen]

Didn't Carrie recognize Allison's voice when she called the one number on the Russian hitman's phone? Is she trying to make a date with Allison to trap her?

 

 

I think Carrie will at least go into the meeting suspicious. I am sure on that 7 hour drive back from Amsterdam she was making a list in her head of all the people in the CIA in Iraq who could/would make that one guy disappear who would also make sure that when the other guy came asking about Carrie could blow him off. That person would also have to know enough about the going-ons in Berlin to have access to the Saul/Quinn kill box. Carrie is an expert in making timelines right? 

 

Speaking in the intelligence, nice to get a little update about what is going on with Javadi in Iran. Seems that he is having trouble maintaining power. I wonder if he is still a CIA asset. 

[John Potts]

I'm assuming that the KGB (OK, I know they aren't called that any more) "acquired" a CIA asset, faked his death and are now running him themselves - they don't want to kill him, they want to use him (and so far, they have) - the only problem would arise if it was discovered he was alive because (presumably) it was Allison who reported him dead. Now she can say, "Guess I was wrong", (like she was about Carrie being dead), but it would (or at least, should) raise a red flag against her actions.

 

Mind you, she really shouldn't worry about the CIA finding her - not only have they failed to realise that she's been playing them for years (she really IS Paige Jennings!) but even when Dar Adal gives explicit orders ("Take Saul to Langley. Go DIRECTLY to Langley. Do not pass Go, do not collect $200!") his guard lets him arrange a hit team to kidnap him. Were Carrie, Saul & Quinn the only competent officers they had?

 

Mind you, the "KGB" aren't doing a lot better - despite the fact that Carrie is on her own and supposedly dead, she still arrived there ahead of the KGB team - there's presumably nothing stopping THEM from flying to Amsterdam (I'll assume KGB hit squads have "clean" passports and are ready to travel in minutes). Or depending how available snatch/kill squads are, CALLING AHEAD and getting a team closer (Paris? London?) to get there first! And while I did wonder why Carrie didn't jump the guy opening the safe, she knew the guy had backup (and I don't think she had seen them enter, so it could be more than one guy) so cutting her loses and getting out with SOMETHING was probably the right choice.

 

beeble Guy who fakes own death lives in big house on busy city in Amsterdam and doesn't have a security system, besides little yappy dog.

 

When our dog walker met the others, I was thinking he was using the dog to smuggle... something. Say a (suitably protected) film reel the dog had swallowed (drugs would also work, but I doubt the KGB would bother smuggling drugs), because that really is a place no security agent is likely to look. You wouldn't even need the dog to survive, really, provided you could supply a similar dog, so you could extract the film/drugs relatively easily.

 

parandroid People in the real world don't go around distrusting everyone

 

 

IRL, no, but in the CIA, they really SHOULD (OK, I know the CIA "are" real life!). Any intelligence they receive should be treated with scepticism (because people will slant what they say based on their viewpoint, may be deceived or be just plain wrong). Now info provided by Allison should be treated as almost impeccable - but there should still be that grain of doubt.

 

(Incidentally, parandroid is a great name - Douglas Adams fan perchance?)

 

VioletMarx  Saul tells Alison a shocking piece of information and she instantly becomes physically ill

 

I actually thought that was the KGB might have poisoned her to dispose of a "burnt" agent, since I thought she couldn't possibly be that bad at covering her tracks. Guess I'm giving them too much credit (though if they really believe she could become CIA Director, they might be prepared to pull out all the stops to keep her in place).

[Helena Dax]

I have yet to see  episode 8. My theory is that Allison is a  Paige Jennings who chose to follow  their  parents' path. Also, the not-so-dead lawyer from Iraq knows that  Allison's actually  working for the Russians and  that's  why the Russians are trying  to  kill Carrie. 

 

I  started  to  watch this season some  days ago and I'm enjoying it  a  lot. Although I agree that Dar and  Saul  might  be conning Allison,  I wouldn't  bet money on that this  time. 

 

Quinn is awesome. There's something hilarious about all  those terrorists being so in love with  him and sadly,  I don't think they  would be so  stupid in RL, but it's interesting anyway and I'm enjoying his adventures. He needs to be closer to  the  main plot,  though. 

[Kel Varnsen]

Quinn is awesome. There's something hilarious about all  those terrorists being so in love with  him and sadly,  I don't think they  would be so  stupid in RL, but it's interesting anyway and I'm enjoying his adventures. He needs to be closer to  the  main plot,  though. 

I am not sure terrorists would be exactly so stupid, but I am sure they wouldn't be far off. What I have read about the people the people that terrorist groups try to recruit is that they go for the not very intelligent, poorly educated easily to manipulate types. So if the van was full of those types of guys, I can see them going along with a guy like Quinn who sounds to them like he actually knows what he is talking about, has been to Syria and has the skills to back up what he is saying. 

[Milburn Stone]

...whatever is going on, [saul] and Dar are in on it together despite there apparently being some longstanding bad blood between them.

 

I agree. F. Murray Abraham has a way of delivering his lines when he's in front of Allison that signals to me that Dar Adal is performing for her benefit.

[Roseanna]

On ‎15‎.‎11‎.‎2015 at 6:42 AM, WaltersHair said:

During casually mentions that the Red Army passed through his father's estate back in the day. Any chance he's a Rusky too? It might account for sudden change of heart toward Carrie. Maybe he's in the documents too.

You mean that his mother was raped by a Russian soldier? As Soviet Union conquered Germany's eastern parts over 70 years ago and Düring is about 50, it's quite impossible.

Also otherwise, as his family has obviously suffered material losses because of a foreign army, it's unlikely that he has any pro-Russian attitudes.  

[Roseanna]

On ‎15‎.‎11‎.‎2015 at 2:43 PM, parandroid said:

Its so "bloody obvious" to us the viewer because of course we get to see the cherry-picked and most interesting / relevant moments of Allison's behavior. But that's not all of what Saul and Dar Adal see, and in that context, Allison appears normal. Lets take the whole "lets frame Saul by giving him an alibi" approach she did. We the viewer see her as manipulative because we know of her true affiliation. But to Dar Adal, who only knows of her sleeping with Saul this only comes across as a loyal lover (initially) and then loyal CIA employee (when she plays the "of course, he could have made a copy"- card). To me the writing is brilliant. Saul and Dar Adal are good spies, but Allison is better!

To me the writing is bad.

It's not a bad idea in se that the audience knows more than the characters. Hitchcock was a master in creating suspense in that way.

But I don't think the method if it makes the persons look stupid. And Saul, Dar and Carrie now do such at one time. It would be better if at least one of them suspected the truth but couldn't convince the others. 

[Roseanna]

On ‎16‎.‎11‎.‎2015 at 5:16 PM, parandroid said:

But Saul doesn't know that. He doesn't see the machinations that we, the viewer, have been privileged enough to see. As far as he knows, Dar Adal didn't see any bang for the buck in keeping him in the interrogation room and let him go to his hotel room. Saul doesn't know that this was engineered by Allison. And just because we see the duplicity of Allison, doesn't mean that Saul has any evidence or pointers from his point of view to suspect someone he trusts so deeply.

 

Putting aside the machination that the audience has seen, it's quite unconvincing that a person who is suspected to be a traitor would be allowed to go to the hotel room with his girlfriend and even meet her alone.

That alone should have made Saul suspicious of her, not to speak of that Allison had earlier betrayed him. He knew that she put her career before him.

Only if he thought that Allison could get him 72 hours, then he would decide that it was worth risk to tell her.   

Most of all, it's quite unconvincing that Saul would be interrogated by Dar who know him and has worked with him, not people who are impartial towards him.

Edited June 23, 2018 by Roseanna
adding some words in order to make meaning clear

[Roseanna]

Thinking anew, I have found the most plausible reason why Saul and Carrie don't suspect Allison: it's too hard to live if one all the time suspects everyone, so one must trust at least in some people. If one doesn't trust in one's fried or lover, there can't be no friendship nor love.    

[Roseanna]

On ‎16‎.‎11‎.‎2015 at 12:38 PM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Allison's spy game with Saul is terrible. After he confesses, she IMMEDATELY gets sick. First of all, you need nerves of steel is you're going to be a spy (see: Elizabeth Jennings). Freaking out like that after you get big news is kind of a dead giveaway. Lucky for her, Saul is so preoccupied that he didn't notice. I was already annoyed with her earlier in the episode when she said, "I didn't see a body. I saw a picture (of Carrie). Did you see a body?" Ummm, that's not how the drop box works and you know it. You guys had Quinn send a picture of the (fake) body so do you think Ivan and his buddies drove around looking for the actual body?

 

On ‎16‎.‎11‎.‎2015 at 2:43 PM, parandroid said:

I do tend to believe that double-agents wouldn't wear their emotions on their sleeve so much, but OTOH, the pressure must be intense and unrelenting. I certainly couldn't do it without falling to pieces, and I certainly understand why someone would feel physically ill when hearing news of impending doom. I don't know any double-agents, so maybe, this is how they behave in real life.

We do know that many of the Cambridge spies were heavy drinkers which is IMO a sign that they hadn't "nerves of steel" but quite the opposite, they needed something to relieve tension. (Of course, as many people tend to babble when drank, heavy drinkin probably showed others that they had nothing to hide.)

Anyhow, I think that dramatically it's quite good that Allison got a panic attack - and then steeled herself (although using a mobile phone is careless IMO). Also, scenes of Allison with her Russian controller are quite good - he really knows which string he must pull in order to motivate her to continue.

[Anela]

I thought During was hitting on Carrie, until he spoke to her now-ex boyfriend. I like Jonas, and liked seeing her happy.