S11.E05: Thin Lizzie

[Tara Ariano]

Sam and Dean investigate a series of murders at a local B&B that also happens to be Lizzie Borden's old home. When a man tells them he saw a little girl around the B&B around the time of the murders, the brothers realize Amara may be responsible.

[Mick Lady]

I love this! I've been to Lizzie's house and the murders have always fascinated me!

 

Don't let me forget!

 

catrox in three, two, one...

[catrox14]

Fuck it. It's Wednesday somewhere!

 

[Mick Lady]

That's my girl!!

[catrox14]

LOL, thanks!

 

I'm actually kind of excited for this episode because Rashaad Ernesto Green who directed  "Inside Man", which IMO was one of the best episodes of s10 easily, is directing this episode. It was written by Nancy Won. I'm not familiar with any of her work...so I'm hoping for the best.

[SueB]

This is her first episode as a writer (for Supernatural).

Edited November 5, 2015 by SueB

[Demented Daisy]

What the hell was up with Dean this episode?  It felt like S9 all over again.  What was this "new rules" crap?  Dean, you've always been about saving people.  This is wrong.  Is it a bad writing job?  This woman doesn't have a handle on Dean yet?  Regardless, someone should have course corrected this episode.

 

If I didn't know better, I would think that Amara gave Dean the Mark back.  Or took his soul.  

 

I miss Dean's goofy sense of humor.  A lot.  Giving Sam hell for his "obsession" with serial killers doesn't count.

 

At least he didn't agree to killing the guy.  Is that where I am with this show now?  Looking for the tiniest of victories?  Disheartening.

Oh, and why do human souls look like angel grace?

[Jediknight]

What the butt, Sam and Dean don't know about the stories of Lizzie Borden's house being haunted?  Sam and Dean Winchester haven't heard the stories, or even seen the Unsolved Mysteries segment?  Sam had to look it up online?  This is Sam and Dean, they should know that.

 

Other than that, I liked the episode.

[Frost]

I thought the beginning was clunky.  Very bad exposition about Lizzie Borden.  Even as a not ghost hunter, I've know about Lizzie Borden and the 40 whacks since I was a kid.  After that, I enjoyed it.  Good atmosphere and I liked how Amara is evolving.

[catrox14]

okay so first thoughts.

 

It was a spooky episode and I thought it was nicely paced.  A bit of a weak script but it was also a big table setter. I still feel like we are getting Supernatural Greatest Hits.

 

If Dean is feeling that blissfulness then I have to wonder if he doesn't really even have his soul anymore and he's just going through the motions, "Acting like Dean", which would explain a whole lot for me, why he seems like Pod!Dean.

 

Demon!Dean seemed "happy". He did what he wanted to do vs being evil much like the babysitter was talking about.  Does that mean the Mark/Amara was affecting his soul when he was a demon so he didn't go totally evil like eating children and murdering humans that weren't already kind of evil themselves (i.e. Randy and the Rapists, Lester)

 

I mentioned this wayyyyy back that I'm getting a Jasmine (From the tv show Angel vibe) from this.  Jasmine made everyone feel blissful and they followed her and willingly gave themselves up so she could literally eat them.

Edited November 5, 2015 by catrox14

[catrox14]

What the butt, Sam and Dean don't know about the stories of Lizzie Borden's house being haunted?  Sam and Dean Winchester haven't heard the stories, or even seen the Unsolved Mysteries segment?  Sam had to look it up online?  This is Sam and Dean, they should know that.

 

Other than that, I liked the episode.

 

This just feeds into my theories that things are not what they seem.  Dean mentioned the Wizard of Oz and different parts missing..I don't think that was unintentional either. 

 

Hmmmm.....many thoughts...I've got some speculating to do

Edited November 5, 2015 by catrox14

[bethy]

I wondered, too, if Dean's soul is gone or somehow compromised by his bond to the Darkness. There has been something slightly off to me about Dean this year and him faking it until he makes it or going through the motions would explain a lot of that.

I liked that once again Dean makes the connection with the nerdy guy.

Dean's comment about Sam's "new" rule was strange. That's always been the rule, man. For both of you.

[SueB]

So I mentioned this wayyyyy back that I'm getting a Jasmine (From the tv show Angel vibe) from this.  Jasmine made everyone feel blissful and they followed her and willingly gave themselves up so she could literally eat them.

Good point.  I think it's possible for Sydney's bliss to explained by a sudden loss of self-hate. The weight off her now absent soul, so to speak.  But it could be a Jasmine-like thing too.

 

Quick thoughts 'cause I have to get up at 5:30 (bleech).

 

I REALLY LIKED IT.  I think Ms Won did a good job.  And as it's her first script for the show, I suspect there were a few oars in the water.  No, I didn't like that Dean didn't know what toilet water was... or the "your new rule" line... but generally speaking, I refuse to let one or two lines sour me.  Now if it truly hits my SQUICK meter, that's another thing.  But this?  Meh.  No big to me.  

 

Highlights for me:

- OLD SCHOOL meets NEW SCHOOL: I really liked the old school vibe (EMF devices!) and yet it completely tied into how seasoned these guys are AND the mytharc.  I liked the balance - a lot.

- Good characters.  Len had that "Ronald Resnick" vibe - I really liked him.  And the inn-keeper made an impression for me too.

- Questions! I have so many questions after this episode!  I like it when the show makes me want to watch again and ponder all the possible interpretations.  

- Dean's doily allergy.  Hee.  BTW ... So... where DID they sleep?  Baby?  I mean, it was a crime scene - people were there all night... plus the action was pretty non-stop.  Maybe they didn't sleep at all.

- Cas is STILL IN THE BUNKER BINGING ON NETFLIX.  I kinda love that.  Yes, I'd like to see Cas, but knowing that he's staying for as long as he wants....not rushing off again. That makes me happy.

- Sam's serial killer geek.

- The different reactions to losing a soul.  That's a consistency I like.  I would have been mad if everyone went axe murderer.  And yet Len makes it clear that he's going to cross that line eventually.  So... does Amara leave something "behind" in lieu of the soul?  IDK... 

- Jensen was compelling to watch this episode IMO.  He turned on a dime when he saw the Mark.  Len was not leaving until Dean had the full story.  At least not in one piece.  And the careful way he's answering Sam about Amara's effect on him.  He's still REALLY confused.  And that, IMO, came across.  He's probably second guessing EVERYTHING he's feeling right about now.  

 

I'll be back after a couple more watches.  I gotta say, I was actually SCARED this episode.  Like Sam... WHY are you going into the creepy attic?  And Dean... REALLY?  Down into the murder basement?  There's ALWAYS murder in the basement.   Have you not watched your own show??  Yes, I know... heroes and all... but that didn't stop me from yelling at the TV like I do when I watch a horror movie. 

 

ETA:  And Amara is totally perving on Dean.  I realize she's physically younger but ... pre-creation deity as well.  Creepy.  It's like a tween with a boy band crush.  

Edited November 5, 2015 by SueB

[catrox14]

ETA:  And Amara is totally perving on Dean.  I realize she's physically younger but ... pre-creation deity as well.  Creepy.  It's like a tween with a boy band crush.

 

 

I didn't get that vibe. I got the vibe of  'You are going to do my bidding .muhahahahaha".  More like she's got a plan for him, and I actually am no longer convinced it will be a sexual thing.  I may be hoping against hope though

[2Old2BAFangirl]

Another good episode!

I liked that it was just the boys again. I love Cas and I like Crowley but it's really been great these last two episodes to only have Sam and Dean. I like not having the episode split between the boys and Cas and Crowley and whoever else.

I didn't think Amara was perving on Dean but I did tell my husband that even the young ones think Dean is pretty and they love him! Lol

[Wynne88]

I really loved the scene where Dean told Len that he no longer had a soul.  

[ZennyKenny]

LOVED this episode! So far I'm really enjoying this season, much more than I thought I would. Still tickled that the boys are working together without the typical secret angst. This really does have a season 1 vibe to it.

[SueB]

Hmmmm. Just me then? Unofficial poll...perving yes or no? Answe as you comment, pretty please?

[7kstar]

Perv or not Pervy...mixed bag for me.  Young girl's gleam and smirk that I know something you don't.  Also a feeling of your going to love being with me...hee hee (insert evil laugh)  Could be she sees him as her new pet or play toy.  Besides how fun would it be to be alone with only souls to eat?

 

Had some of the scary vibes although I did go...here we go standard horror idiots...of course I will protect you, now he has to die!

 

Dean's line about the new rules...stupid but it is so we can be hit over the head with Sam's thought when did we stop wanting to save people.  Of course, Dean could still be fighting the idea of I need to kill vibe as the pull is too hard to resist, but he's going to do it anyway.

 

I do wonder if the faking it till you make it...is something that Dean is doing.  Like he thinks that something was damaged beyond repair from having the mark and hasn't figured out what has happened to his soul. 

 

I do wish the writing could have been a little smarter, because I don't think too many wouldn't have heard about Lizzie, but there are some interesting moments.  Not my fav but it did have some nice moments.

Edited November 5, 2015 by 7kstar

[Ferniesfreckles]

This was a genuinely spooky episode in the beginning. Shades of season 1 and 2 levels of spooky.

That Amara chick is starting to freak me out. Her leer at the end did seem sort of boy-band crushy. Sort of like "soon we'll be together, my pretty" maybe that's why she's in a hurry to grow up?

I felt really, really bad for the poor guy who took the blame for everything.

That little kid was stunning.

Another good episode. Next week the circus is back in town.

Edited November 5, 2015 by Ferniesfreckles

[ZennyKenny]

Hmmmm. Just me then? Unofficial poll...perving yes or no? Answe as you comment, pretty please?

I didn't get a perving vibe, no. But I might be oblivious; I don't see Sam or Dean as acting out of character, either. Just the ocassionally poorly-written line (like about the new rule).

[Mick Lady]

Hmmmm. Just me then? Unofficial poll...perving yes or no? Answe as you comment, pretty please?

 

Got your back SueB, I totally got that impression. Freaked me out.

 

Love Cas in the bunker bingeing The Wire. Great show!

 

So catrox had it right all along, there is something wrong with Dean! Girl knows her Dean!

Edited November 5, 2015 by Mick Lady

[Mick Lady]

- The different reactions to losing a soul.  That's a consistency I like.  I would have been mad if everyone went axe murderer.  And yet Len makes it clear that he's going to cross that line eventually.  So... does Amara leave something "behind" in lieu of the soul?  IDK...

 

 

This drove me crazy. Why do people react so differently? Did I miss something? Everyone we've seen lose a soul has behaved in a different manner.

[catrox14]

This drove me crazy. Why do people react so differently? Did I miss something? Everyone we've seen lose a soul has behaved in a different manner.

 

Back in Mother's Little Helper, each person who had their soul stolen by Abaddon reacted differently. Most became violent but the violence was different.

 

Now here if Amara imbues them with a 'bliss' like state, "follow their bliss" then that might make them different but still probably going to do harm of some kind, intentional or not.

 

Which if Dean is messed up that's some seriously shit implications for Dean.

 

So  when Len mentioned feeling like there was a black thing with wings inside of him rising, I was "ruhhhhrrr" ...wait  back in Form and Void, there was that dark bird like thing flying around Dean. Hmm....

 

Also, did y'all notice that the bar was called Molly's Hatchet Room LOL ...nice triple pun there.

Edited November 5, 2015 by catrox14

[SueB]

So my timeline on twitter is full of folks wondering about the state of Dean's soul.... lots of folks are joining your "something's wrong with Dean" feel catrox.

 

Personally, I think we've gotten mixed signals. And MAYBE on purpose.  The 'new rules' was either clunky, intentional hint, or intentional mislead regarding Dean.  They are hinting at the Cage for sending signals to Sam pretty hard so laying the foundation makes sense.  At least if it comes out that Dean is soulless, they've built their case for foreshadowing that plot twist.  But that means, of course, that 1) Dean is bald-face lying because he'd have no sleeping with no soul (they reminded us of that this episode) and 2) Jensen is also pulling "A Sheppard" as he's saying neither brother is afflicted.  Then again, I think Dean IS lying (at least by omission) about his interaction w/ Amara and Jensen's idea of 'not afflicted' doesn't included random visions.  How messed up would it be if Dean's soul IS at least partly messed up and he doesn't realize it because he hasn't be unaffected for so long?  I'm not ready to get on the "no soul" train (not that this is your train catrox... I think you think something is messed up but not 100% in the 'soulless' camp?)

 

Anyway... lots to think about as I spend the next 90 mins in TRAFFIC.  ****Grrrrrr... adult responsibilities... having to actually WORK the day after a Supernatural episode... how RUDE!**** 

[Demented Daisy]

No one is going to mention the Ghostfacers name check at the beginning?  ;-)

 

I've slept on it and... I'm disappointed.  I believed Jensen when he said that this season, it was back to just Sam and Dean, no powers, nothing "supernatural" about them. *sigh*  Now, I'm not saying he lied.  I think he probably didn't know that something would be "wrong" with Dean.

 

Gah, I am so sick of Dean not being Dean!  Two years of this crap with no end in sight.  Frustrating.

[SueB]

Well I'm in the 'Dean is Dean' camp. Just unsettled. But I could be one of the hold outs. So, we'll see.

[MYFAKETVBOYFRIEND]

Well I'm in the 'Dean is Dean' camp. Just unsettled. But I could be one of the hold outs. So, we'll see.

I agree with you SueB. I think he is confused and disturbed but has his soul. He still enjoys eating and he wouldn't have cared about Baby last episode if he didn't have his soul.  I don't think  Amara is perving over Dean (does the darkness know or care about sex? Isn't that a human thing?) I think what she is WANTING is Deans soul, not his body. (silly girl!)

[Demented Daisy]

For what it's worth, I wasn't 100% on board with Sam's characterization this episode, either.  

 

I think I'm going to chalk it up to poor writing this season because I'm deeply unhappy with the alternative.  I can forgive (unintentional) bad writing.  I have no interest in "What's wrong with Sam/Dean?" again.

[Primetimer]

Don't you love that horror movie trope in which dumb kids tempt fate? Yeah.

Read the story

[Omegamom]

Started off slow to me, but as soon as the reveal "homemade EMF generator", "speakers in the walls", "timers on the sputtering lights" came, I perked up. And then it twisted and turned, and Amara showed up, and I liked it all.

Poor Len! He's so sweet, even without a soul! And the comment about licking sweat, Har! And the "picked up my thumb like it was a mini-hotdog"!

I do like that folks without souls react differently. Makes me wonder just what resentments Jenna had about her grandma hidden away that only got loose when Amara ate her soul.

Somebody asked about human souls looking like grace--way back in S05, the episode where they take down Famine, the dead coroner's soul glowed brilliant blue when they opened up the suitcase. And when Sam rescued Billy's soul from Hell and released it to go to Heaven, it glowed blue, too.

In re pervy tween Amara--I actually got more of a "yay, I can't wait to play with big brother!" vibe. But she's definitely being set up differently than other Big Bads in human form, which is good. I like that her effect is different on different people.

The "I dunno what toilet water is" was bad Dean writing. They could have done that differently, just have him ask why the hell they call it "toilet water", and the phrase always skeeves him out. Then we'd have the savvy Dean we all know and love. "I have grandmother all over me" was a cute line, though. And the doilies everywhere was fun.

Now that I've seen the short preview for next week, my question about Amara wandering about Massachusetts is answered: she snuck out and is going to be grounded for it. Hah!

So is "The Wire" binge-watch-worthy?

[mertensia]

I did love that as soon as Sam explained that Cas was binge-watching The Wire Dean was all "and he's occupied for the next week or so".

A deliberately faked haunted house! Yes!

So Amara can sense- and apparently track- Dean. That's not creepy.

Poor Lem.

[bethy]

I kind of love that they're using Netflix binging for the reason Cas is off-screen. And both of the boys having the response of, "Oh yeah, there's no getting him away from that."

 

I actually liked the "toilet water" exchange between the boys. "Toilet water" is an old-fashioned term (or at least I think of it as something Grandmas used - and my Grandma was born in 1903) and the only reason I know about it is because of the types of books I read. It didn't surprise me at all that Dean didn't seem to know what it was and reacted the way he did. Plus I loved Sam all, "I wanted to see if the squeezy thing worked?" 

[Goldmoon]

I'm older than Dean, and he didn't have a proper family of elders, however the boys must have met thousands of people by now.  Are you telling me that he never heard the phrase toilet water up until now?

 

On a shallow note, Dean/JA looked like a hundred miles of bad road here, especially at the end.  The horrible haircut, similar to Gibbs' high and tight with the sides shaved, is partly responsible.  I wonder if he would look better if he shaved, or are we supposed to be getting the exhausted and old vibe from Dean now?

[peacheslatour]

S11.E05: Thin Episode.

[bethy]

I'm older than Dean, and he didn't have a proper family of elders, however the boys must have met thousands of people by now.  Are you telling me that he never heard the phrase toilet water up until now?

 

 

Yeah, but in what context would that have come up in Dean's world? I can't imagine that a guy whose primary association with society has been his father, his brother, Bobby Singer, people he interacted with in bars and other unsavory places, victims of the supernatural, etc. would necessarily interact much with people who would drop "toilet water" into conversations. I'm older than Dean, too, and a woman and I don't know that that phrase has ever come up in a regular conversation. Of course it's possible that Dean would have heard it, but to me it's also completely feasible that it hasn't. 

[catrox14]

SueB, I'd have to go back and review my various speculations but I think I might have mentioned soulless way back in my early speculations but I didn't hang my hat on that since I didn't think they would do actual soullessness for Dean since we had it with Sam.

My overall theory all along which I am still sticking with, is an altered state of some kind be it actual AU, faulty/altered memories/mind/body swapping...something to that effect.

 

 

agree with you SueB. I think he is confused and disturbed but has his soul. He still enjoys eating and he wouldn't have cared about Baby last episode if he didn't have his soul.

 

It was demon!Dean that didn't care about Baby. His twisted soul seemed to view "Baby" as just a car and another responsibility he didn't want to deal with when he was howling at the moon with Crowley.

 

If Amara induces a blissful state before she eats their souls as with what happened to the babysitter, then I would think Dean's current bliss would still include taking care of Baby and eating and drinking the things he enjoys so even if he is soulless.

 

Len:" I remember what it was like to do the right thing. So I'm going through the motions. For as long as I can."

 

I thought there was definitely a shift on Dean's face and in his eyes back and forth ( and outstanding work by Jensen with those nuances as usual) when Len was explaining how he felt.  Len's words were very similar  to what Dean said when he had the Mark and  to what Sam said about being soulless.

 

I think that could be interpreted a few ways: 

 

1) That Dean is recalling back to when he had the Mark and was empathizing with Len on how Dean tried to survive when he was messed up with the Mark...
2) Or Dean's spidey sense is recognizing that he might be experiencing that same thing now if Dean doesn't remember everything about his time with The Darkness.

 

3) Or something that occurred to me last night that has to do with Sam  because my pod!Winchester senses were really pinging with Sam more than Dean in this episode.

 

Sam's reaction to possibly having to share a bed with Dean was weird. Like why would Sam care at this point of their lives? And the calling dibs on the room. Now it's quite possible they were going with Dean hating the room since it made him want to throw up and Sam was just beating him to the punch and staking his claim to his fetish room.  But Sam playing with the atomizer seemed like a Dean behavior. Even the way he spoke at times.

 

And please, gentle readers, don't take my next comment as any kind of criticism of Sam or that Sam doesn't like kids or whatever. I don't think that is true. Sam has talked with Jesse and a few other teenagers but he doesn't mesh with kids much on the show.  I can't really put my finger on it other than...it felt like Dean. Again, I AM NOT SLAMMING SAM! Don't go there! Just noticing behaviors that seemed...off. Just like I've been noticing with Dean. 

 

The burger eating scene was weird because it was like synchronized chewing LOL.

 

Which leads me to my totally new "Catrox14 has dun lost her mind" speculation No. 876509874.

 

I have to noodle on this more, and I'm not particularly married to it at all, BUT Dean made a reference to the Tin Man, the Scarecrow and wondering what was next. The Cowardly Lion? and said something about parts IIRC.

 

It's been niggling at me for some time now and I haven't quite worked it all out in my head but I'm wondering now if Sam and Dean are not somehow being merged or soul or mind swapped with each other as needed. Or each are experiencing some kind of altered state related to Oz...Yeah yeah it's crazy, but there you go.

 

And don't forget Carver qualified everything at Comic Con about the boys being together and back to normal with an "-ish".   Jensen loves to reference back to saying what Kim Manners said..."Give them what they want in a way then never expect".  

 

As to Jensen lying...well he's "lied" before and obfuscated and trolled us...so yeah the "afflictions" status might be in the eye of the beholder or beerholder as the case maybe

Edited November 5, 2015 by catrox14

[Aeryn13]

I have never heard the term "toilet water" in my life. Granted, English isn`t my first language but in German we don`t call it "Toilettenwasser" - seriously, that WOULD be exactly what Dean thought it was -  either, we call it "Eau de Toilette". Granted, this is just the Fresh Term for the exact same word but I just assumed it wasn`t literally translated into other languages. Somehow I just thought everyone used the Fresh name for it.

 

Didn`t like the convo because after ten years of "haha, Dean is stupid" jokes, they can all shove them where the sun doesn`t shine but I have seen worse moments.

 

This entire "your new rule" about saving people is just stupid. It was DEAN who first brought it up in episode 2. Maybe even in the Pilot, I can`t say with certainty now but he was the poster child of "helping others" vs. "dong it for revenge". So why play it as if he has never heard of it before in his entire life?

 

Even if his soul or part of his soul was gone, it`s not like his memory is. I felt that was very clumsy writing there. Some usual Sam-pimpage moments every new writer must go through on this show. Guess it is on the orientation sheet. Eh, whatever. To be fair, other new writers did worse in their first outing.      

 

Personally, I have no problem with how Dean looks. Don`t get "old" at all. Most times these days, I don`t see even a noticeable age gap between Dean and Sam anymore. Sometimes Dean even looks younger by a year or two. Though roughly, I`d peg them as the same age now. 

[Whimsy]

I have never heard the term "toilet water" in my life. Granted, English isn`t my first language but in German we don`t call it "Toilettenwasser" - seriously, that WOULD be exactly what Dean thought it was -  either, we call it "Eau de Toilette". Granted, this is just the Fresh Term for the exact same word but I just assumed it wasn`t literally translated into other languages. Somehow I just thought everyone used the Fresh name for it.

 

I always thought "Eau de Toilette" was exactly where us American's got "Toilet water" from.  Toilette looks like Toilet to me.  I agree it's an old fashioned term and I actually laughed at that entire exchange starting with "Toilet water?  Why are you still spraying it?" (paraphrased) to "I just wanted to see if the squeezy thing worked".  I thought it was humorous, but maybe I'm simple.

 

I liked this episode.  I really liked Len.  I have been reading Dean's behavior as a lot more happened bertween him and the Darkness than he is admitting and that's where his cageyness is coming from.  Every time Sam asks him a question about it he adds a tiny bit more.  You'd think Sam would've picked up on it by now.  My personal guess is that he was in there for a long time and his "relationship" with Amara is confusing him as to how he's supposed to feel about her.  I took it to be romantic when I saw the flashbacks, but maybe it's just because it's Dean and who wouldn't want to be romantic with him?  It never occurred to me that his soul was gone, but I think that's because that has a "been there, done that" feel.  I hope that's not it!

 

I hate creepy, rapidly growing evil children. The creep me out.

[catrox14]

I didn't care for Dean's hair in this episode. It was very reminiscent of his soldier high and tight and was too fluffy on the top. But I thought for a moment,  'OHHH maybe it's at the awkward stage of growing out and he's going back to demon!Dean hair.'...because MAN I LOVED demon!Dean hair.  RIP demon!Dean hair :(.

 

But I thought he looked stunning when he was talking to Len with the light scruff.  I love the light scruff on Dean. I don't care for clean shaven Dean as much.

 

As y'all know, I think Dean especially and Sam less so have been off all season. And after this episode I just don't believe or maybe I don't WANT to believe it's bad/lazy writing. Not for this many episodes.

 

And I also don't think either Jensen or Jared would chuck actual changes in the current version of the characters unless it's on purpose.  Like for me, I've never thought Dean could or SHOULD go back to being the same ole Dean in s1 after what he's been through. Sam didn't just go back to s1 whiny bitchface Sam after all his experiences either.

 

IMO, their characterizations right now are a bit too....everything good and bad, somewhat akin to an extended French Mistake version, if you will. Or perhaps in a way that someone else in the story thinks they would or should behave.  Or maybe even how the boys themselves  might think they should behave. Going through the motions.

 

Like here, Dean rings the doorbell and then Sam follows up with knocking on the door almost immediately before there was even time for someone to answer the door. It was funny but it's also not something I remember them typically doing. They would knock or ring the bell if no one answered they would try the other thing. Odd.

 

I did gripe about the Seger stuff last episode, and ended up attributing it to lazy writing BUT I also said it seemed purposeful. Maybe we were supposed to notice it and question it. Same with Michael and Lucifer not being mentioned by either one of them yet.

 

I'm just hopeful its purposeful for an ongoing yet to revealed plotline and not just completely lazy writing where someone has just looked at the Cliffs' Notes version of them and wrote based on that.

Edited November 5, 2015 by catrox14

[DittyDotDot]

"I wanted to see if the squeezy thing worked?"-----I totally get that compulsion, Sam. I really, really do. 

 

Eh, pretty clunky writing, but wasn't the worst thing they've ever done. Still, got a great chuckle out of Dean just blurting out Len was soulless. So, it wasn't all bad.

 

Note to Sam and Dean: it's always the girl with the colored streaks in her hair. Sure sign of whack-a-doodleness, that is.

 

This drove me crazy. Why do people react so differently? Did I miss something? Everyone we've seen lose a soul has behaved in a different manner.

 

Each person's wants and desires are different, so how they behave without their soul is different too. It's not that removing one's soul automatically makes them murderous, just takes away their natural inhibitions. Blue-streaked chick already had the impulse to kill, but her soul kept her from acting on that impulse. Len didn't have the murderous impulse, just curious of what it would feel like to be a murderer. Bah, I'm rambling.

 

 

 

Edited because compunction and compulsion not only aren't spelled the same, but they don't mean the same thing either...go figure. 

Edited November 5, 2015 by DittyDotDot

[Demented Daisy]

Bah, I'm rambling.

 

*giggle snort*  Yeah, this show has a tendency to make us do that, doesn't it?

[catrox14]

 

So is "The Wire" binge-watch-worthy?

 

Yes the Wire is 100% binge watch worthy.  IMO it is one of the greatest shows ever to grace the screen. It's practically perfect. I'm not even kidding. But funny thing....it's not on Netflix streaming, only Netflix DVD. It is on Amazon Prime streaming though. Hee...so I'm wondering how do they get that stuff delivered? Like do they have a P.O. Box?  

[Aeryn13]

 

Each person's wants and desires are different, so how they behave without their soul is different too. It's not that removing one's soul automatically makes them murderous, just takes away their natural inhibitions. Blue-streaked chick already had the impulse to kill, but her soul kept her from acting on that impulse. Len didn't have the murderous impulse, just curious of what it would feel like to be a murderer.

 

I could go with it in this episode. But Jenna in the second one didn`t strike me as so evil at her core, she secretely wanted nothing more than to kill, particularly her grandmother. Yet she did just that, about a nanosecond after losing her soul.

 

The writers struggle with consistency overall but the depiction of soullessness in particular has always been all over the place. Soulless!Sam varied from writer to writer "oh, he is dark", "no, funny" "no, sex-crazed" "no he has no concept of social interaction and can`t read body language"  "no, he can read people better than Sherlock Holmes" "no, he is murderous". Season 9 when Abaddon had her soul thing going on everyone turned into basically a crazed axe-murderer with no impulse control. Here, we have yet another variation of soullessness. 

 

I try to just go with "being soulless means whatever shit we make up about it in any given episode". 

[Tippi Blevins]

I hope Amara's not perving on Dean, really do, but it seemed really creepy to me. Yeah, she's billions of years old on the inside, but she's possessing a baby's rapidly growing meatsuit, and she acts like a kid. 

 

I loved Len. He reminded me of Ronald. I hope he eventually gets his soul back somehow, although he still managed to be a Big Damn Hero even without it.

[SueB]

I could go with it in this episode. But Jenna in the second one didn`t strike me as so evil at her core, she secretely wanted nothing more than to kill, particularly her grandmother. Yet she did just that, about a nanosecond after losing her soul.

 

The writers struggle with consistency overall but the depiction of soullessness in particular has always been all over the place. Soulless!Sam varied from writer to writer "oh, he is dark", "no, funny" "no, sex-crazed" "no he has no concept of social interaction and can`t read body language"  "no, he can read people better than Sherlock Holmes" "no, he is murderous". Season 9 when Abaddon had her soul thing going on everyone turned into basically a crazed axe-murderer with no impulse control. Here, we have yet another variation of soullessness. 

 

I try to just go with "being soulless means whatever shit we make up about it in any given episode". 

 

I thought that at first.  But then I thought about the specifics of what Jenna did - I don't think Jenna killed her grandmother because she wanted her grandma dead.  I think Jenna slit her Grandma's throat because " I always wanted to try this."  And "this" was slitting a human's throat.  Grandma's death was a byproduct of the experience.

 

***entering charts and graphs mode --- you've been warned***

 

Jenna was a BadAss.  She killed ALL those Rabids by herself. So we know 1) she's excellent in a fight (Dean was impressed) and 2) she already knows what it's like to kill a person. But even tho Jenna (who I REALLY REALLY liked, so I'm in defender mode here), was a good person, she also was someone who had been exposed to violence in our culture.  Her chosen calling was to protect.  But I could also see her having a wee bit of fascination with weaponry, given her skills.  So, being curious about what damage a knife could do?  Not that much of a leap.  In short, slitting Grandma's throat was more about the knife than about the murder.

As for Dean, besides the fact that he was a threat, he's also demonstrated some BadAss warrior vibe.  I imagine she wanted to see if she could take him mano a mano.  Oddly, she KNEW smashing what she always thought were creepy angel statues was okay ... because Grandma was dead.  So... it's like part of her knew it was wrong, but Grandma being dead made it okay.  So... I think she had more inhibition about killing Grandma's statues that killing Grandma.  

 

I agree the Soulless in Mother's Keeper were all pretty violent, but a few just sat in their cells doing violence to themselves.  And if someone without a soul WASN'T violent, they probably wouldn't have ended up in that jail cell.  There were five jars of soul, but only three in jail and one dead meatloaf woman.  So... who's soul was the fifth?  Now honestly?  I think there were five jars because they LOOKED pretty... but, it doesn't contradict that one of those jars could have been for a Len-like non-violent type.  And Len actually WAS violent when it struck him to be (tore off his own thumb... murdered Sydney).

 

 

I hope Amara's not perving on Dean, really do, but it seemed really creepy to me. Yeah, she's billions of years old on the inside, but she's possessing a baby's rapidly growing meatsuit, and she acts like a kid. 

 

I loved Len. He reminded me of Ronald. I hope he eventually gets his soul back somehow, although he still managed to be a Big Damn Hero even without it.

 

Yeah, Len is a Big Damn Hero to me as well.  I'm kinda irrationally hoping that if they defeat Amara, the souls go back.  I know it's unlikely -- they seem to be converted into her growth/power -- but I like Len.  OTOH, I bet he'll be hella-wicked in jail.  When someone starts to mess with him, he'll just chew off their ear or something .

[Mick Lady]

No one is going to mention the Ghostfacers name check at the beginning?  ;-)

 

I've slept on it and... I'm disappointed.  I believed Jensen when he said that this season, it was back to just Sam and Dean, no powers, nothing "supernatural" about them. *sigh*  Now, I'm not saying he lied.  I think he probably didn't know that something would be "wrong" with Dean.

 

Gah, I am so sick of Dean not being Dean!  Two years of this crap with no end in sight.  Frustrating.

 

Yeah Daisy! I loved this, and was hoping to see Ghostfacers show up at the Inn. But they broke up, didn't they?

 

"I wanted to see if the squeezy thing worked?"-----I totally get that compulsion, Sam. I really, really do. 

 

Eh, pretty clunky writing, but wasn't the worst thing they've ever done. Still, got a great chuckle out of Dean just blurting out Len was soulless. So, it wasn't all bad.

 

Note to Sam and Dean: it's always the girl with the colored streaks in her hair. Sure sign of whack-a-doodleness, that is.

 

 

Each person's wants and desires are different, so how they behave without their soul is different too. It's not that removing one's soul automatically makes them murderous, just takes away their natural inhibitions. Blue-streaked chick already had the impulse to kill, but her soul kept her from acting on that impulse. Len didn't have the murderous impulse, just curious of what it would feel like to be a murderer. Bah, I'm rambling.

 

 

 

Edited because compunction and compulsion not only aren't spelled the same, but they don't mean the same thing either...go figure. 

 

Why am I totally unsurprised you get that compulsion Dot?

Edited November 6, 2015 by Mick Lady

[Mick Lady]

I'm rewatching....

 

Loved Dean's "Let's grab a beer and a lobster roll" We had a place in Maine for years, and I miss the lobster! We're in Idaho now, but I have a friend that send us lobsters (She works for LobsterGram) a few times a year.

 

Second, anyone else notice how Large Amara's pupils are? I get set lights and all, but none of the other actors have pupils that large. The babysitter has the same eyes. Does this mean anything?

[sweetfancymoses]

I can't stop thinking about what Castiel thought of the Wire.

[Proteus]

The dead pair Dean found in the basement at the end, who was the man? The female was the boy's mother, right? Thanks.