ElectricBoogaloo November 5, 2015 Share November 5, 2015 Jimmy’s trashy family comes to visit from England, much to Jimmy’s dismay. In the throes of her depression, Gretchen struggles to help Jimmy entertain them. Lindsay fills in for Gretchen at work. Edgar bonds with Jimmy’s little sister. Link to comment
whiporee November 12, 2015 Share November 12, 2015 Two things really stand out to me. The first is Aya Cash's acting. She was amazing, doing all of hr acting with her face, turning herself into the little girl you could see in season one's episode with her parents. The second is I sympathize with Jimmy. He didn't sign up for this, and being with someone doesn't require you to sacrifice your own happiness because they can't feel any. In the end, this shit is Gretchen's, and while I was sad seeing it, I can't hold Jimmy looking for solace somewhere else against him. Add in Linsey's voice, and "Mexican's are America's Pakis" and you have what continues to be one of the best shows on TV. 3 Link to comment
NorthstarATL November 12, 2015 Share November 12, 2015 That's just it with depression, or any number of other issues/illnesses: you really have to be all in because it will involve both of you. Just the fact that Jimmy tried to "fix" Gretchen previously indicates that he really doesn't understand what she is going through, and, though she sort of cause the family visit, she wasn't fully "there" when she was given the letters. I feel badly for both of them. HOWEVER, the fact that Jimmy has to find a sympathetic ear who happens to be opposite gender and appropriate age/attractiveness to become part of a triangle? That's a contrivance by the writers, because Jimmy is not without friends AND is also a writer and could well be writing all of that down as a productive outlet. But that wouldn't further the plot. Does Gretchen no longer have her own place? I just didn't recall when that happened. Spending time depressed while living in that small space with Jimmy's family must have been a special kind of hell. I love Lindsey. Link to comment
CMH1981 November 12, 2015 Share November 12, 2015 (edited) Wow, that last scene b/t Jimmy and Gretchen was awful. I don't know how depression works, but I mean seriously, Gretchen couldn't just sit there and let Jimmy vent?! I do think Jimmy recognizes that Gretchen is going through something, he isn't sure how to fix it, but he knows he can't push anymore since that backfired. I wish he would talk to Lindsey about it since she has dealt w/ it before...although I could see Gretchen thinking that it could be a betrayal of her friendship. I only could see a brief few seconds of next week's promo b/c of my dvr cutting it off, but it looks like things come to a head b/t Jimmy/Gretchen/bar owner. Lindsey has a good voice. I really thought Lindsey and her husband might fix things, on Lindsey's part but it looks like that isn't going to happen. I wonder if Lindsey and the rapper might start something up. So we saw how the letter sending has gone so far...the gift pkg from NAMBLA, his family visiting...i wonder how long till we see the love letter to Becca plays out. Edited November 12, 2015 by CMH1981 1 Link to comment
Traveller519 November 12, 2015 Share November 12, 2015 After the three episode run this show just went on, this one was a bit more of a breather, and while it didn't standout as much as those previous ones, good god were the laughs coming hard. Edgar bringing in the "BAMLA" bag, Gretchen's continual trying to avoid the situation, Sam and Lindsay, Dad's obsession with the gun and the little comments ("dealer brought it right to the door" "I've never seen a bazooka" "We can stop at the bullet store on the way home"), and of course "America's Pakis" I was rolling. I really felt for Fiona. She seemed so content with what she had and wasn't as cruel as Diana, but really got her world rocked by that Whole Foods (or knock-off). For her existence Tesco was everything, especially the fancy one, and that got shattered in one shopping trip. 1 Link to comment
wendyg November 12, 2015 Share November 12, 2015 I actually loved this episode. I live in Britain, and while the family were of course way over the top (as they say here) that was actually fun because so many Americans do think, as Lindsay said, "I thought English people were fancy." What she says next may be a favorite quote in the whole series, "But these are like...*Alabama* English people." Gretchen's family were over the top in the other direction, and I do wonder if the show is deliberately trying to see both families somewhat from Gretchen's and Jimmy's points of view - the people they grew up with are basically aliens to them, and they have no more understanding of them than they would of cartoon characters. And I also wonder if the father plays up to the women in his life - there are some people who are essentially chameleons, adopting the behavior of those around them, perhaps out of fear of not being fully accepted otherwise. I loved the Tesco sister and her shattered pride in "the *good* Tesco - on the north side". Lily is who Jimmy would have been if he hadn't left - just run right over as though she has no existence as a person. The bully sister is harder for me to understand. Planted for the future: the love letter to Becca, the gun, the bullets, the barista, Lindsay and the rapper, and the incomplete divorce. wg 2 Link to comment
biakbiak November 13, 2015 Share November 13, 2015 Does Gretchen no longer have her own place? I just didn't recall when that happened. Spending time depressed while living in that small space with Jimmy's family must have been a special kind of hell. I love Lindsey. No her apartment burned down because of her vibrator. 3 Link to comment
arc November 13, 2015 Share November 13, 2015 HOWEVER, the fact that Jimmy has to find a sympathetic ear who happens to be opposite gender and appropriate age/attractiveness to become part of a triangle? That's a contrivance by the writers, because Jimmy is not without friends AND is also a writer and could well be writing all of that down as a productive outlet. But that wouldn't further the plot. OK, I get your point, but Jimmy really does have very few friends, in part due to his self-image as a loner. Besides Gretchen, it's Edgar - who now has a job and a girlfriend - and after that, it's Becca who rightfully hates him, Vernon who's too fratty to be even a second or third choice friend for this kind of situation, and Lindsay, who's both busy with all the problems of her ongoing divorce and who's really Gretchen's friend first anyways. Wow, that last scene b/t Jimmy and Gretchen was awful. I don't know how depression works, but I mean seriously, Gretchen couldn't just sit there and let Jimmy vent?! My guess is -- and I don't know how depression works either -- is that she could definitely sit there, but she didn't have the energy to be mentally present for it. Ultimately, Jimmy's family were a bit too horrible for my taste. I'm not sure why. The even more horrible Dr Kelso on Scrubs's early seasons was just great, after all. And the Edgar-Lily stuff just seemed like filler. The Lindsay-Sam stuff felt less superfluous because both are recurring characters and both were working through a running plot that's been going on longer. I was distracted by all the fake names for stuff, though. BAMLA, Eurotune (?), unnamed Whole Foods-a-like, fake Google from earlier in the season (street view cars)... esp weird since Fiona worked at Tesco. 1 Link to comment
inyourmarrow November 13, 2015 Share November 13, 2015 (edited) Wow, that last scene b/t Jimmy and Gretchen was awful. I don't know how depression works, but I mean seriously, Gretchen couldn't just sit there and let Jimmy vent?! Here's what I loved about her refusal. Even before the depression reveal, we already knew Gretchen wasn't all that attentive -- back in season one, episode 7, Jimmy was venting about his dad to her at the bar, and she was playing a game off to the side in the midst of it (her excuse was that she listens better when she was doing something with her hands). That entire episode she kept complaining about having to tend to Jimmy's funk. I love that that final scene in yesterday's episode basically illustrated that even with clinical depression, Gretchen isn't any less of the person we've always known her to be. Even with her depression back, she probably could've made an effort to let him vent to her, but it's so Gretchen not to. That's my reading of it anyways. The scene with Jimmy and his dad at the bar was awesome. Chris Geere absolutely nailed it. The look on his face when his dad mentioned how proud he was broke me instantly. Chris has always been such an expressive performer; glad he got the chance to do some of the heavy lifting Aya's been doing this year. I just love Kether Donohue a lot, and any opportunity for her to sing is A+. I want her hook on the diss track to be my ringtone. Edited November 13, 2015 by inyourmarrow 2 Link to comment
Irlandesa November 13, 2015 Share November 13, 2015 (edited) I too thought that Jimmy's family was over-the-top awful, at least in the beginning. Things significantly improved for me once they hit the grocery store. Watching his one sister amazed by the store was both funny and humanizing. I felt for her in that moment. I also really felt for Jimmy. When the bar owner showed up during Sunday Funday, I didn't like what it implied. But when what Jimmy needed and what Gretchen needed became incompatible, the whole situation sadly worked for me. I still don't want him to cheat but reaching out to her felt more organic than I thought it'd be. Edited November 13, 2015 by Irlandesa 2 Link to comment
wendyg November 13, 2015 Share November 13, 2015 Oh, and: "I put a ball in front of you, you sat on the ball and read a book." That, to me, is a wonderful line summing up a lifetime of disappointment and alienation, on both sides. 3 Link to comment
wayne67 November 13, 2015 Share November 13, 2015 Wow, that last scene b/t Jimmy and Gretchen was awful. I don't know how depression works, but I mean seriously, Gretchen couldn't just sit there and let Jimmy vent?! As someone who has had days like that where all I want to do is hide under a blanket and pretend the world doesn't exist, those type of social situations are hell. From Gretchen's POV she's checked out, apathetic, miserable and trapped in her own hell and Jimmy and his whole family are forcing her to engage at a time when she is unable to cope with her own psycho drama let alone anyone else's. When Jimmy asked to vent, he didn't just want to vent, he wanted her to care about his problems too. She was way too far down the rabbit hole of her own depression to be able to do so. From Jimmy's POV Gretchen has gone from a fun hot mess to a sad sack who mopes and has no objective reason to be depressed. Since Gretchen won't talk about it and doesn't seem to want to get any sort of treatment whether that's therapy or medication; he doesn't know what to do to help and he's stuck watching all the vibrancy of his girlfriend fade to nothing and is not allowed to comment or try and help. As well as dealing with his own issues and family drama. Sometimes it's easier to talk to someone who is not invested in any of the players. Edgar and Lindsey are both too close to Gretchen & Jimmy to be unbiased listeners. It's a messy situation and there's no easy answer. Gretchen can't pretend that her depression isn't an issue indefinitely when it's obviously effecting people around her and Jimmy isn't the sort of person who can just sit by and not comment on his frustration with the situation. 1 Link to comment
ElectricBoogaloo November 15, 2015 Author Share November 15, 2015 I sympathize with Jimmy. He didn't sign up for this, and being with someone doesn't require you to sacrifice your own happiness because they can't feel any. In the end, this shit is Gretchen's, and while I was sad seeing it, I can't hold Jimmy looking for solace somewhere else against him. While I understand that Jimmy didn't sign up for Gretchen's depression, neither did Gretchen. I know that they're not married so the whole "in sickness and in health" thing doesn't necessarily apply to their relationship, but I've seen this happen in other people's relationships in real life. Something bad happens (cancer, death in the family, etc) and the other person says, "I didn't sign up for this," and uses that as a reason not to deal with it (in one particular case, the other person actually used the phrase, "I didn't sign up for this" before dumping the guy, to which the guy replied, "Well, I didn't sign up for my dad to die either"). I totally understand that dealing with your partner being depressed can be difficult, but no one signs up to be the boyfriend of the girl with cancer or the girlfriend of the guy whose parents just died either. Shit happens in life. It's not always going to be drunken nights or Sunday funday. I'm not blaming Jimmy for being frustrated because this is all new to him and Gretchen has been dealing with this since at least college (and so has Lindsay) so she's had years to find coping mechanisms. No, Jimmy doesn't need to sacrifice his happiness in the name of Gretchen's mental illness (depression is an illness just like cancer is an illness so it's not Gretchen's fault she has depression any more than it's a cancer patient's fault for getting cancer), but what frustates me is that he hasn't asked Gretchen how he can help her through this. Instead he ignored her request not to try to fix her and came up with the non-medical solution that Sunday fun day would magically cure her. Now he's acting like she's just being lazy. To me, that's like saying a paralyzed person in a wheelchair just isn't trying hard enough to walk. It's a medical condition that you can't will yourself into not having. Again, I totally understand that depression is a bitch for everyone involved, but he's acting like this is a choice she's making and he's blaming her, which is like blaming someone who's carsick for puking. It's not that she wants to be this way or that she is choosing not to be happy. It's out of her control. When you are in the throes of depression, it's sometimes all you can do to get out of bed and do anything besides stare at the wall. When one of my friends had a really terrible bout of depression, she laid in bed for six months. She barely got up except to go to the bathroom a few times a day. She hated feeling miserable and she was tired of being depressed but she couldn't shake it. If this is too much for Jimmy to handle, that's fine. I just hate seeing him act like she's just being a party pooper. You wouldn't tell someone, "Geez, can't you just stop having cancer?" but people seem to think that depression is cured by sheer force of will. Gretchen doesn't need a guilt trip on top of depression. I do think Jimmy recognizes that Gretchen is going through something, he isn't sure how to fix it, but he knows he can't push anymore since that backfired. This isn't something that Jimmy can fix any more than he could fix her if she had cancer. He's not a doctor. What he can do is help her cope with it, but he hasn't asked her how he can do that and she hasn't offered any suggestions so they're both kind of stuck. He needs to realize the difference though. Examples of fixing a problem: I am an oncologist and I will treat your cancer. I am a mechanic and I can replace your alternator. I am a repair technician and I can fix your broken refrigerator. Examples of helping someone cope with a problem: I can drive you to your chemo treatment, take you home, and hold your hair while you puke. You can borrow my car while yours is in the shop. I can bring you some food until your refrigerator is fixed. The reason Jimmy's plan backfired is that a couple of hours having fun with your friends doesn't cure depression. The other reason it backfired is because Gretchen specifically told him not to try to fix her and he did it anyway. That's like telling someone, "My toilet is clogged. You are not a plumber so don't try to fix it," and then the other person jamming ten tennis balls into the toilet and saying, "Your toilet is still clogged. Why are you so mad at me?" No her apartment burned down because of her vibrator. Ha, not a sentence I ever expected to see! 3 Link to comment
Ottis November 15, 2015 Share November 15, 2015 (edited) The reason Jimmy's plan backfired is that a couple of hours having fun with your friends doesn't cure depression. The other reason it backfired is because Gretchen specifically told him not to try to fix her and he did it anyway. That's like telling someone, "My toilet is clogged. You are not a plumber so don't try to fix it," and then the other person jamming ten tennis balls into the toilet and saying, "Your toilet is still clogged. Why are you so mad at me?" Except I think Jimmy *has* asked Gretchen what he can do to help. Her answer - that he can't fix her - essentially says there is nothing Jimmy can do. Gretchen could have said, "Just listen," or "Give me time, it can take a few weeks or months' or "Give me space, I'll be back." Gretchen is the one who apparently has been down this road before. She knows what it is, how it affects her and generally how it ends. Jimmy knows none of this because Gretchen isn't telling him anything. She never even let him know, back when she wasn't depressed, that she has severe bouts of depression. He was caught completely unaware, thanks to Gretchen. As a result, Jimmy is left to his own devices. And those devices involve generally trying to cheer Gretchen up. He figured out that doesn't work. Then he just tried to vent. That didn't work, either. So what is he supposed to do? I suppose he could Google "depression." But there is no guarantee that whatever he finds will be what Gretchen wants. People with depression respond to different things. Gretchen has to throw him a bone. Until she does, I have no issues with what he is doing. And I don't equate it in any way with saying, "Stop having cancer." There *is* an element of will to depression for Gretchen. She chose not to tell Jimmy before hand. She isn't giving him any idea of how it affects her now. If she can't even point him to a book, or an online source, or a mutual friend, then I assume she also isn't working or interacting with anyone else in any way, but we have seen that she actually is. So she is choosing not to help Jimmy help her. Edited November 15, 2015 by Ottis 2 Link to comment
StrictTime November 17, 2015 Share November 17, 2015 I'm going to give Brandon Mychael Smith a shout out here for his portrayal of Sam. In a show where the acting (and it could be the direction) is often eye-rollingly over-the-top, he goes for it in just the right way. His line delivery just kills me, every time, and I totally buy what he's selling. For a peripheral character, he has communicated Sam thoroughly--I know exactly who this guy is. And I love how he gets this completely normal name, but his group mates are Shitstain and Honey Nutz. 2 Link to comment
Palomar November 18, 2015 Share November 18, 2015 I think Jimmy is coping with Gretchen's depression as best as he can. This is still a fairly new relationship and they were still in the process of really getting to know and live with each other anyway. Plus, not everyone knows the best thing to do in this situation. The whole premise of this show is low expectations....for someone like Jimmy to solve this and even be committed enough to stick it out if it gets worse would be surprising. He's changed but he's still figuring himself out too. He loves her but even that is foreign to him. He doesn't know what to do. Feel sorry for both of them. 1 Link to comment
ElectricBoogaloo November 18, 2015 Author Share November 18, 2015 I feel sorry for Jimmy too as depression is difficult to deal with. I just wish he would realize that doing the opposite of what Gretchen told him is not a good idea and not a reason to walk off in a huff (as he did on Halloween). As far as I recall they haven't had any further discussions about how he can help her cope. Now he's acting like her illness is just an inconvenience to him instead of something that's affecting her in a serious way. It's sad that people still don't take mental illness seriously in this day and age. If she had cancer, he wouldn't be dragging her out to the living room to deal with his family or asking her to drive them around LA. 2 Link to comment
Bean421 November 19, 2015 Share November 19, 2015 The only advice Gretchen has given people is to not fix her. I'm not sure if we should expect Jimmy to be a wunderkind boyfriend when Gretchen's one friend also has no helpful advice to give. 1 Link to comment
arc November 19, 2015 Share November 19, 2015 He could look stuff up on the internet or something. He does spend massive amounts of time and effort on Gretch, such as tailing her with her parents last season, or even planning Sunday Funday 2 in secret and pretending it was all Edgar's itinerary. 1 Link to comment
FozzyBear January 8, 2017 Share January 8, 2017 The thing that I found brilliant about this episode is it's not only a realistic depiction of depression it's a realistic depiction of Gretchen specifically dealing with depression. On a good day Gretchen is immature, self centered, lazy, and irresponsible...so that's how she's doing depression. She says this has been happening her whole life, but she has no medication, no doctor, no support system, no strategy at all to cope. She is simply letting it happen like she has let her whole life happen. I suffer from depression and yeah, Gretchen is fucking up. If you treat people the way she is, they will leave. Eventually you have to figure out some way to manage and communicate your disease. Dealing with shit is not Gretchen's string suite so she's setting her life on fire just to see it burn. It's an uncomfortable choice to watch, but it feels very much like how Gretchen deals. 2 Link to comment
possibilities January 9, 2017 Share January 9, 2017 I know people who handle it just like Gretchen does, and also people who actually do try to get help or find more proactive ways to cope, without it really being effective, so they wind up acting liek Gretchen does anyway. The realism was agonizing, but also brilliant, to watch. I also do think there's something to it whens he says she just wants to be allowed to be, not to have more pressure. At one level, she's opting out of things that it's hard for other people to have her opt out of. And there are consequences for that. But at another level, it's sometimes necessary to let people go through their experience and just let them be. It's very difficult to do, though. But that is life. Link to comment
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