S01.E02: Stronger Together

[MarkHB]

The BBCode for the strikeout is [ s ]. :)

[Potanical Pardon]

Better than the pilot. Still wish this show was more Linda Danvers-Earth Angel Supergirl in tone and quality. It's tooooo crap still.

[Perfect Xero]

How long Superman has been operating does increase or decrease the probability of his having encountered Kryptonite. It's possible that Superman encounters Kryptonite before ever putting on the costume. It's possible that he doesn't encounter it in his entire career. 

 

It's just not very probable that he hasn't encountered Kryptonite in 12+ years of adventuring.

 

The notion that someone deduced that Kryptonite could hurt Kryptonians without the main known Kryptonian having ever been exposed to it or having any knowledge of it seems far-fetched, especially if we are to think that the DEO has had these weapons at the ready for some time.  

 

For us to believe that Superman has never heard of or been exposed to Kryptonite, we have to buy that 

a) no villain in the 12+ years Superman has been operating has ever used Kryptonite against him

b) the DEO somehow discovered/deduced Kryptonite and its harmful effects on Kryptonians independently of Superman

c) the DEO never attempted to use Kryptonite against Superman

d) Superman/Clark Kent and the rest of the Supergirlverse reporting squad never discovered the DEO's weaponizing Kryptonite

e) The first time the DEO ever deployed a Kryptonite weapon it was against Supergirl while she was en route to a good deed.

 

The simplest explanation here is that Superman for whatever reason just neglected to tell Kara about Kryptonite.

 

It's very probable if that's how they want to frame the story. For all we know superman's adventuring in this world has mostly been rescuing people from disasters and throwing down with another alien or a robot from time to time. There are two Kryptonians on this show, one who has been secretly watching and plotting against Superman for over a decade, and the other who is his cousin that he sent his best friend to help learn the ropes on how to be a hero. If neither of these two know about Kryptonite at all, the simplest answer is that Superman doesn't know about it either.

 

If Superman hadn't encountered Kryptonite, how would they know it would hurt him? Unless there's a reveal that they have other Kryptonians trapped in a secret lab as guinea pigs, the only way they could know the stuff would harm Superman is that they've seen it harm Superman. I'm guessing this is a post-General Zod timeline.

 

If they have some idea of how Kryptonian powers work they can predict how they'll respond to the properties of Kryptonite. They've had access to the ship that Kara came to Earth in. They recruited Kara's sister, did they not use that access to run scans on her, to collect a bit of DNA?

[Chris24601]

It's very probable if that's how they want to frame the story. For all we know superman's adventuring in this world has mostly been rescuing people from disasters and throwing down with another alien or a robot from time to time. There are two Kryptonians on this show, one who has been secretly watching and plotting against Superman for over a decade, and the other who is his cousin that he sent his best friend to help learn the ropes on how to be a hero. If neither of these two know about Kryptonite at all, the simplest answer is that Superman doesn't know about it either.

If they have some idea of how Kryptonian powers work they can predict how they'll respond to the properties of Kryptonite. They've had access to the ship that Kara came to Earth in. They recruited Kara's sister, did they not use that access to run scans on her, to collect a bit of DNA?

Technically, there was a third Kryptonian in the last episode as well... the one who first knocked the DDT-eating alien around before Astra showed up (notable as Kryptonian because he used heat vision identical to Kara and Astra).

Given that Fort Roz was a KRYPTONIAN prison and we saw dozens of prisoners running off from the crash site, it's quite possible that there were more Kryptonians aboard than just Astra and nameless minion number three and that the DEO might have taken one or more of the Kryptonians out on the downlow without ever alerting Superman that they'd discovered something that could kill a Kryptonian.

Superman could have been established as a non-threat to Earth enough by that point that the DEO didn't feel the need to take him off the board pre-emptively, but that doesn't mean they'd be inclined to share that they've figured out a way to kill him with Superman either.

Another prospect too is that, if as some have speculated, this version of Henshaw is actually J'onn J'onz, the Martian Manhunter (or some other alien really) then perhaps HE already knew about kryptonite's effects and concocted a way to reveal it to the DEO (ex. setting up a scenario where one of those rogue kryptonians ended up in the same place as a chunk of kryptonite with other DEO agents around to draw a conclusion about it).

I'll admit, how the DEO knows so much about Kryptonite while apparently Superman (and certainly Kara and Astra) do not is a head-scratcher, but we're only on episode two and don't even know for sure what Henshaw really is yet, so there's a strong chance we may find out more as we learn more about Henshaw (and the DEO) as the series progresses.

[Kromm]

I'm confused. How did we establish that Superman doesn't know about Kryptonite?  Simply because Kara didn't?  It could simply be that he didn't tell her when she wasn't heroing, but once she did she found out almost immediately, because it was used on her. So he didn't have time in that gap to let her know (through James presumably).

[Actionmage]

Alex mentioned Kal being able to "commune" with "ancestors", so maybe Jor-El told Kal at some point. Doesn't mean he couldn't forget to tell Kara, though. There probably was a lot Kal wanted to say, but figured it wasn't helpful at the time. He sort of sent James, so maybe he'll pick up a phone in the future.

 

( I would fanwank that there were mines on Krypton, so like Earth miners are exposed to dirt here, Kryptonians were exposed to Kryptonite. So that is how my headcannon explains how Kal might know, but not tell Kara.)

[BkWurm1]

Cat Grant isn't the only person Kara has ever met. The problem with this plotline/logic is that it acts like she is. While really, any of the hundreds of people who Kara encounters should be capable of noticing she looks like Supergirl, and on top of that if it ever came out that Supergirl's Kryptonian name is "Kara Zor-El" have the tiny little niggling thought that the girl who lives in their building has the same name and looks like Supergirl, or that girl who gets coffee at their coffee stand, or takes books out of the library where they're a librarian, or has the desk four down from them at Catco.

 

Yes, we overlook it, because it's what the formula demands. That doesn't mean it isn't worth an eyeroll, because they didn't HAVE to name her Kara (or pretend like Cat is the only possible danger to her secret identity).

 

I don't see why Kara would tell anyone her Kryptonian name.  It never made sense to me in the comics either.   I think sticking with the official nickname is best. 

Alex mentioned Kal being able to "commune" with "ancestors", so maybe Jor-El told Kal at some point. Doesn't mean he couldn't forget to tell Kara, though. There probably was a lot Kal wanted to say, but figured it wasn't helpful at the time. He sort of sent James, so maybe he'll pick up a phone in the future.

 

( I would fanwank that there were mines on Krypton, so like Earth miners are exposed to dirt here, Kryptonians were exposed to Kryptonite. So that is how my headcannon explains how Kal might know, but not tell Kara.)

I thought that it was only after Krypton exploded that the pieces of the planet became radioactive and thus poisonous to Kryptonians on earth.  (She typed thus earning her geek card)

[Zuleikha]

Agree on Jimmy Olsen too, yeah we get it he's very handsome and he's a good guy, any chance you could flesh him out and make him somewhat like a real boy now?

It's only episode 2, and I think we got a good glimpse into his motivations. I'm sure we'll get more development for both him and Winn as the episodes progress. (also, he's very very pretty.)

 

I didn't love Cat last episode, but I liked her this one. Calista Flockheart is a strong comedic actress, and I think she brings the right touch of levity to Cat's lines. The scenes are both serious and comic relief at the same time. Cat also gave good advice. 

 

I felt bad for the poor Helgrammite. He was just hungry. I, too, wondered why they couldn't just feed him DDT in exchange for information and safe keeping. He didn't seem to be actively malicious; just like he was desperate and trying to survive.

[lion10]

So how do Kryptonians get their powers? Do they get their strength, speed, and invulnerability from Earth's relatively weak gravity and their heat vision, x-ray vision, and frost breath from the sun, or are all their powers because of the sun?

[legaleagle53]

So how do Kryptonians get their powers? Do they get their strength, speed, and invulnerability from Earth's relatively weak gravity and their heat vision, x-ray vision, and frost breath from the sun, or are all their powers because of the sun?

 

It's a combination of both factors.  Even on a planet with lesser gravity, they would have no powers without Earth's yellow solar radiation.  A red sun would give them no powers, while an orange sun would weaken their muscular powers (super-strength, super-speed, flying, and super-breath) and limit their invulnerability while either diminishing or eliminating their other non-muscular powers (heat vision, telescopic vision, microscopic vision, x-ray vision, and super hearing) altogether.  Where the gravity is even lighter than Earth's, as long as the sun is at least orange- or yellow-colored, their muscular powers would be magnified.

Edited November 7, 2015 by legaleagle53

[Kromm]

( I would fanwank that there were mines on Krypton, so like Earth miners are exposed to dirt here, Kryptonians were exposed to Kryptonite. So that is how my headcannon explains how Kal might know, but not tell Kara.)

No version of the mythology has Kryponite on Krypton.  It's the result of the explosion of the planet and the bits being irradiated by that in some unique fashion.

I don't see why Kara would tell anyone her Kryptonian name.  It never made sense to me in the comics either.   I think sticking with the official nickname is best. 

Presumably in a modern comic (vs. an older one) because it might seem terribly egotistical to use a default handle with "Super" in it. Ergo, she'd accept the name when used by the public or press, but with an personal relationships (and Superheroes do have them, even in costume), they might opt to use an actual name (and I mean by people who wouldn't necessarily know any secret ID--people like another Superhero, or a Chief of Police, or something like that).

 

Also, it really depends on if the public knows Superman is "Kal-El" already. The bit we get in the preview reveals that the Supergirl-verse public knows about Krytpon exploding and the details of that story often include the story of the House of El being told. Also now everybody knows that she and Superman are actual cousins.  That might logically lead to the conclusion that she might have the name "El", if that's known about him.  So the question (which she'd have to refuse to answer) would be "El What?" (or rather "What El"?)

Edited November 7, 2015 by Kromm

[legaleagle53]

Presumably in a modern comic (vs. an older one) because it might seem terribly egotistical to use a default handle with "Super" in it. Ergo, she'd accept the name when used by the public or press, but with an personal relationships (and Superheroes do have them, even in costume), they might opt to use an actual name (and I mean by people who wouldn't necessarily know any secret ID--people like another Superhero, or a Chief of Police, or something like that).

 

Exactly.  To give a modern example of that, when Wonder Woman was rebooted in 1986, she never used the secret identity of "Diana Prince," and she made it clear that she really hated the "Wonder Woman" nickname which the press and the public had given her (any time someone addressed her as such, she always insisted on being called by her given name, "Diana."  She really only tolerated the name "Wonder Woman" because she recognized that she was basically stuck with it). 

 

That's where Kara is now with "Supergirl."  She probably still hates it for the reasons she gave to Cat when she first brought it up to her as Kara Danvers (and the show really should have gone with the canonical Linda Danvers -- not only is "Linda" not a boring name and potentially less confusing than having Kara be "Kara" in both identities, but it also comes from the Spanish word for "pretty"), but since Cat basically dismissed her complaint "because I said so" and the public ran with it, she recognizes that she's stuck with it and therefore told Henshaw that she now answers to it.

Edited November 7, 2015 by legaleagle53

[BkWurm1]

Exactly.  To give a modern example of that, when Wonder Woman was rebooted in 1986, she never used the secret identity of "Diana Prince," and she made it clear that she really hated the "Wonder Woman" nickname which the press and the public had given her (any time someone addressed her as such, she always insisted on being called by her given name, "Diana."  She really only tolerated the name "Wonder Woman" because she recognized that she was basically stuck with it).

 

Interesting but odd that I don't recall any male heroes going through such a dilemma.  It's always been call code name to keep real name secret. 

 

I guess if Wonder Woman didn't have a secret identity, it makes sense but Kara DOES, so I guess if Kara finds someone that she really wants to have a less formal relationship with, she'll have to decide if she wants it enough to bring them in on her secret.  Otherwise, Supergirl it is. 

[jay741982]

You only need one dagger to kill Supergirl. And Hank Henshaw just handed one to her biggest enemy.

Given what Hank becomes in the comics maybe they are following that route and it was intentional

[Chris24601]

I'm confused. How did we establish that Superman doesn't know about Kryptonite? Simply because Kara didn't?

There's a line at the start of the kryptonite danger room scene where Kara states that no one but the DEO knew that kryptonite was even a danger to her, no mention of any villains who might have threatened Superman with the stuff.

Just a hunch, but with the majority of the threats being other powered beings, including other Kryptonians, they don't NEED omni-present kryptonite to challenge Supergirl (or Superman)... just enough around to make the DEO a credible threat so the bad guys can't just act in the open and keep Kara from thinking she's the best thing ever.

So not quite the Iron Age single kryptonite ring level rareness, but not the meteor rocks littered everywhere that was Smallville either.

[Kromm]

There's a line at the start of the kryptonite danger room scene where Kara states that no one but the DEO knew that kryptonite was even a danger to her

I think we need to look that line up, because I don't think that's really what she said. I think it was simply "I didn't even know about it until a few days ago".

If my memory of the line is closer (I'm not saying it is, just saying how I recall it) the implications would be very different from yours.

[Chris24601]

The complete line includes both "I didn't even know about it until a few days ago" AND "besides, the DEO are the only ones who even know it can hurt me."

 

The implication is that kryptonite is something so rare that Superman may not have even encountered it in this universe. If it were in any way common enough that people outside of the DEO have it, certainly Kal would have mentioned it to Kara... "FYI, stay away from glowing green rocks, they make you sick and can kill you if you're around them too much."

 

Frankly, if it were as common as it was in say, Smallville, and was a known weakness for Superman, I think every crook in the country would try to buy a chunk of it (and real professionals would make bullets out of it) as a form of "Superman Insurance."

 

The two lines combined make me think that they're going to using kryptonite very differently than in other series (kinda like how they didn't have it at all in MoS). So far its mostly been used to weaken Kara enough to restrain/fight her and once as a knife to stab one. There's also the prospect of what in the comics was referred to as synthetic kryptonite... the idea that a scientist could duplicate the radiation that kryptonite gave off in order to weaken Superman or Supergirl.

 

Given that they can dial the emitters in the sparring room up and down to specific percentages, I'd actually lean towards synethtic generation of radiation for the on-site stuff and a very limited supply of real kryptonite (which would explain why they're using a kryptonite knife and not kryptonite bullets). Its spec, but its supported by what we've seen so far.

[KirkB]

I'm fine with the idea of kryptonite being incredibly rare. Smallville needed it to be seeded all over the damn place because it was the direct cause of 3/4 of the weird stuff going on in the show in the first place. Even to the point where Superman has never encountered it, because staying out of her life so she can have one is one thing but I'd have serious issues with him knowing of the one substance in existence that can kill them and forgetting to warn her. But I have a bit harder of a time with the DEO knowing what the stuff does to Kryptonians without ever, you knowing, seeing it used on Kryptonians. I can accept them running tests and suspecting the radiation might negatively affect Kryptonian cells, but would Alex really be okay with them dosing her sister with something that for all they know could kill her on the spot? Unless they have another Kryptonian in the basement who they have already tested it on, then all bets are off. 

Edited December 1, 2015 by KirkB

[AudienceofOne]

Hey everyone, did you know she's a girl?

No wonder she's so wackily incompetent. Females, amiright?