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Celebrating 25 Years Of The West Wing

Spoiler Discussion Thread

Morrigan2575

By Morrigan2575
in Arrow

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Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

Me for all of last summer hiatus and 5A: Me after reading the WM interview from a few weeks back about Felicity's arc giving her a more profound understanding of Oliver: Me after r

BkWurm1
BkWurm1

I tend to think that trying to make KC a place on the show had a ripple effect that did hurt the show pretty badly.  She's what turned Quentin stupid and into a creepy stalker.  So that wipes off the

calliope1975
calliope1975

Challenge accepted.

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Chris24601

Chris24601

Just a hunch, but I think they'll probably isolate everyone on the team as much as possible and then put each of Diggle, Thea, Lance and Laurel into some type of jeopardy while on their own (Ollie and Felicity being know to be safe don't have to be).

 

Diggle, Thea and Lance survive their brushes with death. Laurel gets fatally injured in costume and is rushed to the hospital and dies there. I kinda like the notion that she dies saving a stranger over anyone on the team. Not only is it a noble way to go out (and her decision to step in can be as impulsive as ever), but also because the stranger who was saved would likely be the one to call 911 and/or bring Laurel to the hospital instead of one of the team who'd likely also be in costume if she was injured while with another member of the team.

 

The only thing Felicity would be "guilty" of in such a scenario would not being on the comms (a position she quit two episodes before) to let the team know Laurel was jumping into a dangerous situation or being able to tell Laurel to wait for backup before jumping in. If a grown woman decides to go out without backup and need other people to tell her to not jump into situations she can't handle then its NOT Felicity's fault... its all on Laurel.

 

Give Laurel the win of saving an innocent stranger's life, but her death will be her own fault and no one else's.

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Scribbles

Scribbles

In trying to anticipate Quentin's responses to LL/BC death it struck me how having Donna in show really worked for more story.  He has someone he can express the feels to is one thing.  Also, Donna dealing with him and the death of his vigilante daughter opens all sorts of stuff for Donna when she discovers her daughter is a vigilante.

 

Also, the Calculator has been far too quite.  If Bree Larson can launch a full on bee assault on 30 min per week computer time, Daddy Keystroke (yeah couldn't resist images of Keystroke v Deathstroke in villains volume 1) surely can top that.

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kismet

kismet

(edited)

Help me out.  When all of you say heroic death, what do you mean?  BC performing a heroic act at the moment of death????  Martyrdom? Moira took a sword to the gut for the family and that was a heroic way to go, but then she wasn't all that heroic day to day.   Tommy died to save Laurel from her own stubborn choices, he was a hero but it was hard to mourn him for anger at Laurel (maybe just me) and I hated how she got to be a victim following it all.

 

When I say she should die as she lived, i mean it.  She lives recklessly/impetuously, and usually acting despite sound advice from others.  I could see her dying after some anonymous tip comes in that she can get X or save X and she rolls out alone and gets clocked charging in unprepared.  That would fit her story.  Help me here.

I think there is a really ORGANIC way to have LL's death be heroic and impetuous because it is how she lived. She generally always had good intentions, she was just really awful at executing her plans. I want to help people I will become a lawyer - chooses corporate law. I really really want to help people & need to take care of my Dad, gives up good paying job to work in CNRI. I need to help people it's my job, runs back into structurally unsound building on fire to save paperwork - kills her good friend/lover. I need to help people joins DAs office, but let's life tailspin out of control - blames everybody, blackmails the DA and winds up getting a jacket. I am going to help people - watches sister dies and steals her identity to fight untrained in the streets. s4 - I'm part of a team that helps people - spends majority of time hair whipping, winking and practicing her squatting Mariah. Even though she never had a decent plan the girl was always up for saving the world. You have to give her credit for her tenacity.

 

That being said, her tactical skills, situational awareness and strategy has always missed the mark. So I could totally see her thinking that she can go out on a solo mission to save somebody or perform a heroic deed to win something to save the city or her loved one. Likewise, I could see her while on mission with the team doing something completely impulsive and heroic that gets her killed. It is really not that hard to imagine LL being both heroic & reckless. It's really her MO. I don't see it as martyrdom, I really don't see her directly sacrificing herself for another, she wants to save the world but she is also very self-absorbed & selfish. For me Tommy & Moira made very heroic decisions to sacrifice themselves for others, I do not see LL doing that. Shado & Sara were mercilessly killed & never given the opportunity to fight. I do not see LL dying as a result of a direct attack on her. I think she might come into contact with HIVE, but I don't think they will kill her just to do it like they writers did with S & SL.

 

Part of the reason, I think the writers made such a valiant effort to try to convince us in the interviews that LL is a full-fledged Hero with no learning curve was so she could die as Heroically making her own decisions. She has always been a separate entity from OQ & TA until this season, but even then she has been away from TA in critical scenes more than with them. It's intentionally that her special skills were needed to save OQ from the bees & F/T/D from the chambers. The show has gone to length to tell us that she is her own woman, who makes her own decisions. She is part of the team but it is not her only outlet. So I can see how in this penultimate episode for her questionable decision making skills would converge with her innate need to help people and as a result lead to her untimely & yet heroic death.

 

They had her run into a burning building that was falling down to save paper not people... and accidentally cover herself with child or two during a drone strike while trying to protect them.  I think these writers can find the perfect blend of impetuous & heroic.

Edited by kismet
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looptab

looptab

(edited)

Wait, didn't Malcolm basically say to Darhk that they were washing their hands of him? Why would he help him escape from prison?

Edited by looptab
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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

SUMMARY OF 418 SPOILERS:

 

S4, Episode 18: Eleven-Fifty-Nine [bIG DEATH EPISODE]
-- Production code: 418.  Shoot Dates: Feb. 12-23, 2016.  Director: Rob Hardy.  Writers: Marc Guggenheim & Keto Shimizu.  Airdate: Apr. 6, 2016.  (MG tweet, page 31 of Spoilers thread, and SpoilerTV article, page 33 of Spoilers thread)
-- 418 episode synopsis: "MALCOLM MAKES HIS MOVE – Oliver (Stephen Amell) and Diggle (David Ramsey) learn that Merlyn (John Barrowman) is going to try to break Darhk (guest star Neal McDonough) out of prison. Meanwhile, Laurel (Katie Cassidy) gets a surprising offer and Felicity (Emily Bett Rickards) has a heart-to-heart talk with Curtis (guest star Echo Kellum). Rob Hardy directed the episode written by Marc Guggenheim & Keto Shimizu.  Original airdate 4/6/2016." (SpoilerTV article, page 33 of Spoilers thread)
-- MG's Billy Joel song pick for 418 is "Famous Last Words." (MG tumblr post, page 31 of Spoilers thread)

-- See 418 producer's preview posted. (418 producer's preview video, page 34 of Spoilers thread)

-- See 418 promo and extended promo posted, which indicate that someone will die in this episode. (418 promo and extended promo videos, page 34 of Spoilers thread)

-- See 418 sneak peek video posted. (ComicBookResources article, page 34 of Spoilers thread)
-- See second 418 sneak peek video posted. (Variety article, page 992 of Spoiler Discussion thread)
-- See third 418 sneak peek video posted. (SpoilerTV article, page 34 of Spoilers thread)

-- See 418 promo pics posted. (TVLine photo link, page 34 of Spoilers thread)
-- See 418 comic preview posted. (MG tweet, page 34 of Spoilers thread)

-- 418 dialogue tease: "It's not myself I'm planning on hurting with this." (ArrowWritersRoom tweet, page 34 of Spoilers thread)
-- Per WM, 418 "is one of the most powerful [episodes] we've ever done."  (WM tweet, page 34 of Spoilers thread)
-- Per MG and WM, 418 will be the episode where we find out who's in the grave. MG: "Dead is not goodbye... We definitely recognize across all three shows [Arrow, The Flash and Legends of Tomorrow] that when we kill off a character, it means something different now. I'm not going to put a qualitative judgment on whether it's more or less impactful. I'll leave that up to the audience. But certainly, we acknowledge that there's a difference. Arrow much more so than Flash or Legends, for a lot of reasons, it traffics in death. For better or for worse, death is a part of the show. What we're finding as we're pushing into season five, the show has to evolve. The concept of death on the show is evolving and changing as we've seen with Sara Lance. As the show has evolved, so has death."  WM: "It's going to be huge and significant... There's no question that it is going to be shocking. It was a shocking thing for us to process and to write the aftermath. We really wanted to make sure that we did it in a way that was very honorable and gave us space to honor all the characters' various reactions to it. The episodes we've written in the aftermath are devastating. They're meant to be. We wanted to explore that and have everybody feel the impact of this loss." Also WM: "It is a game changer in a very sad way that we're losing a beloved character but also in the sense of it's going to open up new storytelling avenues and will force our characters to rethink their decisions and their objectives... Death is a reality and with the Lazarus Pit and the possibility of coming back, it's easy to forget that these people are vigilantes, they're out on the street, they're doing dangerous things. This brings that reality back in a rude and brutal way. It's good for the audience to be reminded of that and for our characters as well."  However, 418 will not be the last time we see the character who ends up in the grave. (Hollywood Reporter article, page 34 of Spoilers thread)

-- In 418: (1) we'll learn where Andy Diggle's true loyalty lies, (2) we'll see Malcolm make a big play in an attempt to fulfill his deal with Darhk (Malcolm helps Darhk in exchange for sparing Thea and him from Genesis), (3) we'll see father/daughter drama between Malcolm/Thea and between Quentin/Laurel, where Laurel must make a big decision regarding her superhero/civilian life, (4) there'll be a status quo shift that will change the game and set up what will drive us towards the season finale, and (5) we'll learn who's in the grave and this character's death will be permanent.  (IGN article, page 34 of Spoilers thread)
-- In 418, in addition to the death surprise, MG: "There are a couple revelations in this episode... [The]’s death looms large, but there is a pretty seismic change for the Diggle-Andy relationship that we’ve been teasing.” (EW article, page 34 of Spoilers thread)
-- 418 will reveal who is in the grave and this episode's performances "will bring people to tears." (ComicBook article, page 34 of Spoilers thread)

-- Per media tweets from advance screening of 418, Natalie Abrams: "Prepare yourselves, people."  Tim Beedle: "I'm not going to spoil anything, but it's easily the best episode this season. Keep some tissues handy." Christina Radish: "No spoilers, but tears will be had. Keep tissues nearby." Sydney Bucksbaum: "It's a big one. I have a lot of thoughts. Some good, some bad." (Morena post, page 34 of Spoilers thread)

-- The Felicity/Curtis scene mentioned in the 418 synopsis was not in the episode screened by the media on Apr. 4. (GreenArrowTV tweet, page 987 of Spoiler Discussion thread)

-- Laurel gets a job offer from Star City's new mayor.  (GreenArrowTV article, page 34 of Spoilers thread)
-- On Feb. 12, PB posted pic of Quentin wearing a flashback wig. (PB tweet, page 316 of Social Media thread)
-- On Feb. 17-18, Arrow was filming at Vancouver Community College on East Broadway (with "Queen for Mayor 2016" pic).  (YVRShoots tweet, page 31 of Spoilers thread, and Oliver Queen Films Notification Letter, page 878 of Spoiler Discussion thread)
-- Scenes being shot at Vancouver Community College have to do with the mayoral campaign.  (YVRShoots tweet , page 31 of Spoilers thread)
-- On Feb. 17, SA, WH and KC were filming something for mayoral campaign; and PB and KC filmed a coffee shop scene.  (Juvelyz in VC tweets, page 880 of Spoiler Discussion thread)
-- Taiana might appear in 418 because ER was on the Arrow set on Feb. 23.  (ER tweet, page 32 of Spoilers thread)
-- Unclear whether or not Donna will appear in 418.  On Feb. 18, CR tweeted: "Nooooo @EmilyBett -I want to Nemo w/ you!! ???? We'll have Nemo pajama party next week!" (CR tweet, page 881 of Spoiler Discussion thread)

 

Grave-relevant Social Media Posts & News Reports
-- On Feb. 6, in response to fan asking if it was true that KC "decided to leave" or whether it was just a rumor, MG replied: "Total rumor. And a false one, at that."  (MG tumblr post, page 31 of Spoilers thread, and page 930 of Spoiler Discussion thread)
-- During 419 filming, papps tweeted funeral pics showing Dinah, Nyssa, Madison McLaughlin's character, Felicity, Thea, Diggle, brunette Laurel and Quentin (with and without flashback wig), and also men carrying a casket, and funeral scenes.  (Various papp tweets and fan tumblr posts, pages 32-33 of Spoilers thread, and pages 908-915 of Spoiler Discussion thread)
-- Per papp tweet, during 419 filming of funeral, SA was also in a group scene as well as a scene alone with the gravestone. (Larry Andreutti tweet, page 915 of Spoiler Discussion thread)
-- During 419 filming, per papp tweet, description on pic folder was "Katie Cassidy films her last day on Arrow." (marilia@melliegrantaf tweet, page 32 of Spoilers thread and page 909 of Spoiler Discussion thread)
-- During 419 filming, papp report (on Feb. 26) said: "Katie Cassidy films her last day on the CW series 'Arrow'. The 29 year old actress is apparently being fired from the show for not getting along with other cast members, and being late/holding up production." (Scan of Steve Ginsburg blurb posted in fan tweet, page 913 of Spoiler Discussion thread)
-- During 419 filming, per fan tweet (on Mar. 3), KC had her farewell party on set.  (Black Canary Project @ blackcanaryPRO tweet, page 927 of Spoiler Discussion thread)
-- Per Canadagraphs, 419 episode title is "Canary Cry."  (Canadagraphs tweet, page 33 of Spoilers thread and page 914 of Spoiler Discussion thread)
-- Per fan tweets from HVFF-Chicago (on Mar. 13), KC denied knowing who was in the grave but then compared the death to losing Tommy (CD) in S1; she also said it's how television works, no changing it, and "it's taking one for the team."  Also, DR confirmed the death is final, but said person will always be a part of the Arrow family.  WH said that the death was a huge loss for the show and that whenever you lose a character like this, it feels like losing an arm and a leg, because the cast is so close. (Felicitys_Arrow tweets, page 33 of Spoilers thread, and page 944 of Spoiler Discussion thread)
-- Per fan tweets from HVFF-Chicago, CR inadvertently revealed that Quentin was not the one in the grave when talking about Donna & Quentin's relationship and Donna being back for S5. (Felicitys_Arrow tweets, page 340 of Social Media thread, and tarotx post, page 944 of Spoiler Discussion thread)
-- Per Amie Marie Bohannon's interviews with cast at HVFF-Chicago (on Mar. 13): DR said, "I was sad, it's sad, very sad. With shows like 'Legends', 'Arrow', and 'Supergirl', you never know what could happen." CR said, "I don't know, hopefully I don't get killed! We start filming the last 3 episodes of the season next week, so who knows." KC made no jokes and said, "You know, it's like it was in season 1 when Colin (Tommy) died, it's always sad, but at the same time, it is what it is, it's television, it's kind of like taking one for the team. I don't even know if they know who it is yet, I assume they do, but I haven't read that script... It's bittersweet, but at the same time, we're a team." WH said, Look, when something like this happens, because this cast is like family, it feels like losing an arm and a leg." PB said, Who's in the box? I'll tell you who. Somebody! ... How do you know I know who's in the grave? I'm ignoring that question! I don't even know who's in the grave! ... (when asked for his hopes for Lance in S5) Breathing!" (MoviePilot article, pages 947 and 968 of Spoiler Discussion thread)
-- Pics of blonde KC on Mar. 12 and brunette KC on Mar. 13 at HVFF-Chicago. (ILoveKCassidy tumblr post, page 344 of Social Media thread)
-- On Mar. 16, KC tweeted pic of herself with brunette hair standing at Hollywood & Vine with comment: "Hey look ma... I made it to Hollywood!!!" (KC tweet, page 948 of Spoiler Discussion thread)
-- KC returned to Vancouver the evening of Mar. 16.  (KC tweet, page 949 of Spoiler Discussion thread)
-- Papp pics of brunette KC at Vancouver airport on Mar. 17. (OutlawHobbies instagram, page 949 of Spoiler Discussion thread, and PUNKD Images tweet, page 344 of Social Media thread)
-- On Mar. 18. KC posted pic of "Wig fittings. So edge." on instagram and twitter. (KC instagram post, page 952 of Spoiler Discussion thread)
-- On Mar. 22, KC posted pic of herself in front of NY International Auto Show with comment: "Partnering with Toyota USA to reveal a mechanical marvel at #NYIAS. Follow my story from NYC on Toyota's Facebook Page ot see it first... We're going LIVE tomorrow!"  (KC facebook post, page 346 of Social Media thread)
-- On Mar. 23, PB posted pic on CW Arrow's instagram of KC getting her make up touched up between scenes. (CW Arrow instagram, page 346 of Social Media thread)
-- On Mar. 31, during LoT filming, papp tweeted screenshot of gravestone marked "DINAH LAUREL LANCE  1985 - 2016 THE BLACK CANARY."  (Ken@pursuit23 and Punkd_Images tweets, page 34 of Spoilers thread and page 974 of Spoiler Discussion thread)
-- On Mar. 31, during LoT filming, papp tweeted screenshot of CL and PB standing over a gravestone, which papp said was Laurel's grave.  (Punkd_Images tweet, page 34 of Spoilers thread and page 974 of Spoiler Discussion thread)
-- See better quality pics of Laurel's gravestone and of CL/PB standing over a gravestone posted. (Velocity23 post, page 34 of Spoilers thread)
-- Per Canadagraphs, KC was seen on the Flash set on Apr. 1, and she shot scenes with GG and KL. (Canadagraphs tweets, page 34 of Spoilers thread)
-- Per fan tweet, Laurel from Earth 2 was fighting with Barry Allen, and Wally was also there. (Jade@TeaAt23 tweet, page 978 of Spoiler Discussion thread)
-- Canadagraphs and fan tweeted pics of Earth 2 Laurel dressed in a different BC(?) costume. (Canadagraphs tweet, page 34 of Spoilers thread, and Bonnie@bawnies tweet, page 980 of Spoiler Discussion thread)
-- Fans tweeted video clips of KC (dark BC from Earth 2?) filming Flash episode 2x22 on Mar. 31. (Diva_Jong tweets, page 34 of Spoilers thread)
-- AK: "We have a really exciting, fun doppleganger coming up in the penultimate episode of The Flash that we haven’t announced yet." (Collider article, page 979 of Spoiler Discussion thread)

-- Per MG (on Apr. 4), KC will appear as Earth 2 Laurel, a/ka Black Siren, on The Flash, episode 2x22, on May 17. (TVLine and EW articles, page 34 of Spoilers thread)

Edited by tv echo
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bijoux

bijoux

Wait, didn't Malcolm basically say to Darhk that they were washing their hands of him? Why would he help him escape from prison?

 

Because he was Ra's Al Ghul!

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

Wait, didn't Malcolm basically say to Darhk that they were washing their hands of him? Why would he help him escape from prison?

He did, but I'm guessing he changes his mind once the idol comes back into play? DD without magic is useless. With magic, I can see Malcolm wanting to use him. He's probably got some secret, stupid plan in the works.

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Scribbles

Scribbles

Wait, didn't Malcolm basically say to Darhk that they were washing their hands of him? Why would he help him escape from prison?

I didn't take from that scene that Malcolm was washing his hands of Darhk, just that he was informing Darhk HIVE is doing so.  Which btw, Ruve is one heckuva wife eh?  Malcolm increasingly is showing he is more interested in learning Darhk's secrets than helping HIVE with Genesis.  Thea asked Malcolm to help her with Darhk and the bloodlust and Malcolm always wants to know the secrets (it is what makes him the best gossip on the show).

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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

NO PRISON CAN HOLD HIM OMG.

 

...decapitating works?

Decapitating works on nearly everything. Not ghosts or that one alien Tony Shalhoub played in the first Men in Black, but pretty much everything else. They should really consider just starting there.

Maybe Malcolm wants to learn DD's secrets because only the student can defeat the master...:D

I think I read that in a fortune cookie once. Gosh, I'm sure glad no one is dumb enough to use a fortune cookie saying like that to, for example, make major life decisions. Bc man that'd be dumb.

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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

Is it just me or everything would be much more interesting if they didn't force MM in every single SL?

 

He's like that annoying inconvenient uncle that ruins every single holiday, but your family still invites him over every time.

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Scribbles

Scribbles

Is it just me or everything would be much more interesting if they didn't force MM in every single SL?

Ahh ty for the sl clarifier.  I am goofy in that I love his gladfly role in the universe. Whatever is  brewing ya always have to wonder what mischief Malcolm is meddling in to make Oliver and the team's doings all the more complicated.  MM is scariest when you don't know where he is or see what he is up to cause ya know he is always up to something.  Arrow is a show based on comics and Malcolm helps it stay true to that.

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Midnight Lullaby

Midnight Lullaby

Ahh ty for the sl clarifier.  I am goofy in that I love his gladfly role in the universe. Whatever is  brewing ya always have to wonder what mischief Malcolm is meddling in to make Oliver and the team's doings all the more complicated.  MM is scariest when you don't know where he is or see what he is up to cause ya know he is always up to something.  Arrow is a show based on comics and Malcolm helps it stay true to that.

I get bored when it's the same stuff over and over again. I could stop watching, pick the show up again in a year and there would always be MM betraying someone, LOL.

I would have liked if this year they let HIVE and Darhk be the antagonists on their own without MM meddling in everything. He could have taken a year break and come back the next. Right now more than a threat I perceive him as annoying and I guess that wasn't the writers' plan.

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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

Arrow is a show based on comics and Malcolm helps it stay true to that.

 

I think they missed the mark by about eleventy miles, and he's a cartoon character instead of comic book character.

 

He's basically DeeDee from Dexter's Lab. Can I push this button? No. *pushes button*

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Scribbles

Scribbles

For fun: April 6 = election day on Arrow, who will be Starling's next mayor.  Is there a way to do a poll on here that we can predict whether the show will make Oliver or Ruve or "other" mayor?

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spartan

spartan

I enjoy the fact that evil E2 BC is a lot smarter than good lawyer E1 BC. Full gloves, y'all.

But who said She was evil? Earth 2 Black Canary was a kind of anti-hero before becoming nice when she went IN Earth 1.

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catrox14

catrox14

I wonder if KCs going to post that picture of her in a fridge again

 

Wait, what??? Where is this?

Yeah I think it was a (tactless) response to the complaints about Sara being fridged.

 

Oh I never knew about that . Wow. You know, since I know this now...I don't care how she dies. I'm back to wanting her to do die like Sara did. A pointless murder.  Yes. I'm still petty about it! Like why would she even do that??

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kismet

kismet

For fun: April 6 = election day on Arrow, who will be Starling's next mayor.  Is there a way to do a poll on here that we can predict whether the show will make Oliver or Ruve or "other" mayor?

Well they could always have MM as a write in candidate... It defies logic and reason that a "dead" mass murderer would get elected, but you never know with these SC people they have some really wacky thoughts about was qualifies & disqualifies people as mayor.

 

I know I'm in the minority of people who still like MM & want to see him live beyond this season. But I must admit the writers are even wearing my patience down. They are really destroying his and other characters on their weekly pretzel making plots. He really does not need to be squeezed into every storyline. I realize that they are paying MM a significant amount of money, but there has to be a better way to incorporate him. Rather than bringing back the stupid LoA & Nyssa power play this year, they should have just had MM become couch surfer. I would have much preferred him chilling on the couch watching Netflix for a whole season. Occasionally getting up to refill his glass and give some "fatherly" advice as he mourns the loss of his hot tub. It would have been lame but he's the new Gossip Ras Al Ghul, there was no need for him to meddle in anything but gossip. And then next season he could hatch his Evil plans that he has been working on for a whole year.

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NumberCruncher

NumberCruncher

(edited)

Yeah, I can't say I was too thrilled when they announced they were bringing on Mr. Terrific and I'm still not.  I like Echo a lot but S4's biggest problem is that there were too many masked heroes in the field.  They're supposedly taking care of that problem, but now they are just going to be right back where they started from.

Edited by NumberCruncher
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looptab

looptab

I'm glad. He works well with everyone, they just need to hit the right balance. If he's going to be in the bunker with Felicity, at first, there's potential for comedy.

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Guest

Guest

(edited)

Yeah, I like him but I feel like Curtis is better in small doses. I found him funny in 417 but a bit OTT sometimes. I hope they learn to balance all of the masks out in the field better though.

Edited by Guest
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Chaser

Chaser

Mixed feelings. I love Echo and I think he works great with the cast. I'm just not sure how they will fit Curtis in. I don't want him in the Arrow Cave regularly because they already have Felicity for Tech and they don't need another mask.

 

I'm kind of laughing at the fact that they didn't even wait for Laurel to be killed off because announcing another regular.

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looptab

looptab

I think anything could happen. We don't even really know what's happening beyond 419, they might be in a completely different situation come next year.

I guess that pilot Echo was in fell through?

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statsgirl

statsgirl

I think there is some comedy with Felicity because Echo is good but comedy works best when one is the straight man and the other the comic (look at Burns & Allen or Lucy & Ricky).  Put two of the same together, like Ray and Felicity, and it falls flat.  Ray was much better when they brought Oliver in to play off him.

 

I like Curtis but I feel that he, like Donna, is best as grace notes rather than main melody.

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kismet

kismet

Curtis and Felicity are Arrows Cisco and Caitlyn from the Flash.

Sadly I don't think that is a good duo to be emulating. They are the 2 main reasons I find it very hard to watch that show.

 

Consider me on the team that thinks Curtis works better in small doses. I was overjoyed when EBR was promoted to a regular I think she adds something unique to the team dynamic both as an actor and as her character. It made the show a significantly better show. Kudos to them for seizing that opportunity. I think making Echo a regular is just a wrong tactical decision for the show. And I'm having the exact opposite reaction.

 

Frankly, I'm getting tired of the show killing off all the regulars (or heavily recurring) I liked in s1-3 to "focus" of the core story only to continue to bloat the cast every subsequent season with new masks. Tommy, Moira, Shado, Sara, Roy and even some of their VOTW all died in sacrifice for a better show per the writers and they are just making it worse. S4 looked like it was finally getting it stride by slimming down the masks and perhaps aiming for a more balanced story ~ but now I have to dread what machinations they will have to do to the plot to somehow incorporate unnecessary regulars like Malcolm & Curtis into every plot.

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Guest
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