Spoiler Discussion Thread

[way2interested]

Interesting! I'm just gonna imagine he was told right off the bat it wasn't going to be Felicity and Diggle so he could grieve accordingly ;)

Heck, it would be hard for me to believe that he would have been okay filming it without confirmation that it wasn't Diggle or Felicity right off the bat. I wonder now if he was told who the killer was or if he, like a lot of us, just assumed it was Darhk until the possibility of it being Malcolm came up (and even then, I would kind of think that Stephen would ask Marc and Wendy if the killer really is Darhk).

[chaos is welcome]

Unless the writing gets better, I won't. Ugh, the Babymama fiasco was horrible.

The thing that kills me is that if laurel is dead, sara is the.bc again, malcolm was a foe, dead, undead, frenemy, foe....like REALLY, what was the point. I adore ota and olicity but in light of all these developments, I kinda wish I hadn't ever bothered. What a waste of my time and certain actors talent. The poor writing is unforgivable. the net result of s3/s4 would be next to nothing (other than olicity)...Sara didn't stay dead, Malcolm is an ass like always. Thea got mind raped, bad writing for all. Meh.

[HighwayFlower]

I think they will probably have Caity wear black again but just keep calling her the Canary. She will basically be the Black Canary (as she always was to me) but by not saying it, they can avoid any more backlash.

[Sakura12]

I think they'll keep Sara in white. Most people call her the Black Canary anyway. That's a title, it doesn't matter what color she's wearing. She's the Canary that is the master martial artist with a connection to Ra's al Ghul and has an adopted sister named Sin. 

Edited March 14, 2016 by Sakura12

[chaos is welcome]

The whole concept of white canary was not being the mask anymore. Don't they kind of need masks is star(ling), bc secret Identities/fams etc....Will be interesting to see

[foreverevolving]

Why can't she be both?

Black Canary when she's in 2016 & onward because she needs the mask to hide her identity so that those she loves are protected, and the White Canary when she's traveling through time with Rip and the gang because in the past no one can reconize her and she can be mask-less?

 

See guys I solved our Canary problem! Different color --> same person --> different need for the different color.

Edited March 14, 2016 by foreverevolving

[EmilyBettFan]

What if Merlyn finds out how Tommy really died and turns around and kills Laurel the same way.

[foreverevolving]

What if Merlyn finds out how Tommy really died and turns around and kills Laurel the same way.

Unlike some I already sort of like Malcolm.. this will make me love him, he will be redeemed for all eternity (unless he tries to hurt Felicity and than he's worse than buckles) in my book.

Edited March 14, 2016 by foreverevolving

[apinknightmare]

He'd have to care about Tommy in order to want revenge, though, and he clearly doesn't.

[nksarmi]

Well there is that little newspaper on Flash that I'm pretty sure mentioned Atom, Hawkgirl, and Black Canary fighting with Flash and Green Arrow. If Laurel is dead - somebody has to be BC! :)

[Julie335]

The whole concept of white canary was not being the mask anymore. Don't they kind of need masks is star(ling), bc secret Identities/fams etc....Will be interesting to see

Yes.

 

I think they will probably have Caity wear black again but just keep calling her the Canary. She will basically be the Black Canary (as she always was to me) but by not saying it, they can avoid any more backlash.

Yes!

 

Why can't she be both?

Black Canary when she's in 2016 & onward because she needs the mask to hide her identity so that those she loves are protected, and the White Canary when she's traveling through time with Rip and the gang because in the past no one can reconize her and she can be mask-less?

 

See guys I solved our Canary problem! Different color --> same person --> different need for the different color.

 

YES!

 

Well there is that little newspaper on Flash that I'm pretty sure mentioned Atom, Hawkgirl, and Black Canary fighting with Flash and Green Arrow. If Laurel is dead - somebody has to be BC! :)

 

Hell yeah. :)

[tarotx]

Was Black Canary listed in the newspaper?

 

Well there is that little newspaper on Flash that I'm pretty sure mentioned Atom, Hawkgirl, and Black Canary fighting with Flash and Green Arrow. If Laurel is dead - somebody has to be BC! :)

[wonderwall]

Well there is that little newspaper on Flash that I'm pretty sure mentioned Atom, Hawkgirl, and Black Canary fighting with Flash and Green Arrow. If Laurel is dead - somebody has to be BC! :)

Sin went to a new city and totally channeled her inner BC ;) She comes back to the show as a guest star and totally kicks ass. 

 

pleasepleasepleasepleasepleaseplease

[ComicFan777]

Was Black Canary listed in the newspaper?

 

 

From what I can read, it says:

"According to witness, The Flash, with help from Starling City's Green Arrow, The Atom, and Hawkgirl, began fighting the Reverse-Flash around midnight last night."

 

I couldn't find a better one that's zoomed in enough and isn't chopped off.  Since Barry has gone back in time a few times already, it is an alternate timeline, so it may not be relevant.

 

Edited March 14, 2016 by ComicFan777

[Morrigan2575]

Well there is that little newspaper on Flash that I'm pretty sure mentioned Atom, Hawkgirl, and Black Canary fighting with Flash and Green Arrow. If Laurel is dead - somebody has to be BC! :)

It only mentioned Green Arrow, Hawkgirl and ATOM. There was mention of Black Canary.

Or what Comics said above

Edited March 14, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[tv echo]

"Starling City"?

 

Like "Queen Inc.", the question of names has to be explained someday.

Edited March 14, 2016 by tv echo

[kismet]

This was on fan forum

http://www.fanforum.com/85388848-post155.html

SA clarifies his comment about knowing who was in the grave. I don't know the rules about bringing over something from another forumn so I'm just posting the link

Thanks for the clarification. :) It sorta makes sense that he would have a short list... most of us had a short list right after the episode aired without even being privy to a lot of the info he must get fed about the show. There are only so many people that fit the description and even the chickened-out version. I do think he was given info about who it was not, and that there was some lag between when he filmed that first FFwd and when he found out for reals.

On another note, and not that it is probably worth discussing, but I do think the decision to kill off a character and that character being LL/BC was a collective decision and really wasn't just the choice or doing of one showrunner.

[tarotx]

So NM says that Damian Darhk will be back and go darker and darker so maybe he will be the he and it is Laurel being a Lawyer that gets her killed? That could be Laurel's balance between her day and night job that the ptb talked about in the beginning of the season. So maybe they knew all along who was in the grave or who they wanted in the grave?

Edited March 14, 2016 by tarotx

[nksarmi]

Thanks.  I could have sworn BC was included as well but I guess not.  I'm still ok if Sara wants to get back in black and continue the BC legend in present day while operating as White Canary in Legends.  She wouldn't be the first superhero to use two different names/aliases.

Edited March 14, 2016 by nksarmi

[SmallScreenDiva]

"Starling City"?

 

Like "Queen Inc.", the question of names has to be explained someday.

 

I always got the sense with The Flash that the future is very fluid, so the future with Queen Inc. and this fight might not even happen at all. 

[apinknightmare]

I think the top headline/story has changed once or twice, but the article with Queen Inc. has always stayed the same. Not that I've, um, read it or anything. And I don't put too much stock in it because continuity isn't the best with these people, but...yeah.

[SonofaBiscuit]

You think Okay, I get it, I'm prepared for the worst, but you hold out that small hope, see, and that's what fucks you up. That's what kills you. ---Stephen King, Joyland

 

Denying that Laurel's in the grave is really going to mess some people up.  I'm not home on Wednesday nights anymore, so I'm going to have to wait until late to read the reactions to the death episode.  WHY?!!!  :(   

[bijoux]

I really, really don't want what NM said about Darhk getting darker to be an exaggeration. I really want him to be given his space and to turn a feral force to be reckoned with.

[Chaser]

So NM says that Damian Darhk will be back and go darker and darker so maybe he will be the he and it is Laurel being a Lawyer that gets her killed? That could be Laurel's balance between her day and night job that the ptb talked about in the beginning of the season. So maybe they knew all along who was in the grave or who they wanted in the grave?

I'll maintain that while they may have had a short list, Laurel was their number one pick.

 

I want DD to be the killer. I find him much more menacing then MM/JB.  I was so disappointed in Ras last season that I want DD to wipe him from my memory. That being said, I would want MM to be involved in some way because he needs an arrow/bullet/whatever put thru him. Actually, I wouldn't mind if DD killed MM. I know it wouldn't happen but I would love if DD totally played MM and then betrayed him.  A taste of his medicine.

 

Question for peeps. Would people rather see Laurel die as a civilian (like Lawyer Laurel) or in the mask?

[tarotx]

I rather Laurel die as a Lawyer. It ties in more with season 1. But I think it could be cool if DD doesn't know about Black Canary being Laurel but when he finds out out BC is the Lawyer who tried him in court, all his anger at being locked up will be taken out on BC. Either way I think it will be the fighting in the light of day that gets her killed. 

Edited March 14, 2016 by tarotx

[looptab]

This was on fan forum

http://www.fanforum.com/85388848-post155.html

SA clarifies his comment about knowing who was in the grave. I don't know the rules about bringing over something from another forumn so I'm just posting the link

Did he clarify during the panel itself or at a later time?

Edited March 14, 2016 by looptab

[Starfish35]

I'd rather she die as BC. It makes more sense with the guilt vs responsibility at the grave, and all the anvils about fighting as BC being Laurel's choice. Not that the writers are great on follow though, but the foreshadowing doesn't work nearly as well if she dies as a lawyer, rather than as BC.

[Morrigan2575]

Did he clarify during the panel itself or at a later time?

From what I understand it was after the panel, probably at an autograph signing

[looptab]

From what I understand it was after the panel, probably at an autograph signing

Thanks!

By the way, after asking about that "taking one for the team" from KC, I googled it to find the actual quote (not what she said at HVFF, but what she had said before) and this is what came out:

It's so sad when somebody leaves," Cassidy told reporters on the "Arrow" set in Vancouver last week. "Caity and I were really close, and she is a great actress, and we loved having her. It's always sad when somebody leaves, but exactly like Colin Donnell, it's like he took one for the team, because something drastic needed to happen, and he is an amazing an actor as well. It's always tough when you lose an actor, but she seemed to be very supportive, and yes, of course I was excited to continue to see what was going to develop for Laurel and her journey, and hopefully one day becoming the Black Canary."

Read more at http://www.hitfix.com/the-fien-print/arrow-star-katie-cassidy-teases-laurels-growth-and-destiny#DicDZDUygeEMW0RW.99

which I find rather amusing, in light of recent events.

Edited March 14, 2016 by looptab

[GigiM]

Thanks!

By the way, after asking about that "taking one for the team" from KC, I googled it to find the actual quote, and this is what came out:

which I find rather amusing, in light of recent events.

Well Kc had to have known what was coming.  The writing was on the wall. Decreasing screen time and importance. It made no sense to continue to pay her top dollar when the writers had no use for her character anymore. I would have quietly started looking for other employment last year. 

[thegirlsleuth]

For behind the scenes reasons, I am wondering if Malcolm is the killer and is either going to be killed or skulk off to parts unknown.  Barrowman is guest starring on Reign in a role that looks like it could turn into something long term (I don't watch).  In addition, I have to wonder if the Darhk is going to be finished off this season, because I remember reading that McDonough moved his entire family to Vancouver, which seemed like a long term commitment, and McDonough seems kind of entrenched as part of the cast.

Edited March 14, 2016 by thegirlsleuth

[kismet]

I'll maintain that while they may have had a short list, Laurel was their number one pick.

 

I want DD to be the killer. I find him much more menacing then MM/JB.  I was so disappointed in Ras last season that I want DD to wipe him from my memory. That being said, I would want MM to be involved in some way because he needs an arrow/bullet/whatever put thru him. Actually, I wouldn't mind if DD killed MM. I know it wouldn't happen but I would love if DD totally played MM and then betrayed him.  A taste of his medicine.

 

Question for peeps. Would people rather see Laurel die as a civilian (like Lawyer Laurel) or in the mask?

I basically want it to be DD, because they have no plans on actually killing MM for at least another season (unless they grew some plot kahunas over the hiatus, which I doubt). Therefore, I don't want yet another crime I have to watch MM commit, that the show then forgets about and he slips away without any punishment again. I need LL's death to be avenged, not because I love LL but because they promised me an avenging OQ in 401 and that won't happen with any type of satisfaction if it is MM, because the show is not ready to make him a menacing force again. And I'm not sure him killing or being responsible for LL's death would give him back his villain edge yet.

 

I want both for LL & BC. I want it to be LL's professional life that causes her to fall into DD/HIVEs crosshairs. But then she gets killed as the mask because I do think it's important for her narrative to die as the mask. DD could easily figure out that the spider-eyelashed dyed blonde in the black is the same as the spider-lashed dyed blonde in the courtroom. He might be too oblivious to jawlines & facial hair similarities. But I think based upon on how LL handles herself in the courtroom it will become pretty obvious how she is getting her inside information. So once DD is let go, he will set-up a trap and she will die a heroic death in full costume.

[Scribbles]

I rather Laurel die as a Lawyer. It ties in more with season 1. But I think it could be cool if DD doesn't know about Black Canary being Laurel but when he finds out out BC is the Lawyer who tried him in court, all his anger at being locked up will be taken out on BC. Either way I think it will be the fighting in the light of day that gets her killed. 

The way for them to make it a blend (dying as Laurel but b/c she is BC) would be for her to let something slip at trial that DD knows she could only know if BC.  DD may be in jail, but he has Ruve on the outside to get it done.  DD has the most immediate motives, fulfilling his threat to Lance and being prosecuted/jailed by LL.  But, it seems doubtful they would opt for the obvious "him". 

 

If she wins the case to prosecute DD, that would be a change of pace.

[apinknightmare]

I'd prefer that she die as Black Canary, not because of anything that she did as a lawyer. Only because they're all vigilantes doing super dangerous work, and out of all the people who have died on the show, no one on the team has died doing the work that they've all committed to. I think that's something that needs to happen, to put into sharp perspective what it is they do, and how dangerous it is, and that it's not just flesh wounds and occasional trips to the hospital. Seems like there's more mileage to get out of that than yet another city employee biting the dust.

It'd be interesting if she does die as BC though, because how would they explain her death to the general public? Would she be outed? Seems like there'd be more dramatic payoff there, but these writers are just as likely to take the easy way out by having her killed as DA for whatever happens during DD's trial.

Edited March 14, 2016 by apinknightmare

[looptab]

It'd be interesting if she does die as BC though, because how would they explain her death to the general public? Would she be outed? Seems like there'd be more dramatic payoff there, but these writers are just as likely to take the easy way out by having her killed as DA for whatever happens during DD's trial. 

Yeah, I'm wondering how would they deal with her death, if she dies as BC? Will they drag her to the lair as Laurel did Sara? Or was that just because they had forgotten that the general public knew that Sara was alive?

[tarotx]

I think she will die as BC because tptb want to kill a mask. I just feel that Laurel dying for something she did as a lawyer fits with what I like about her best. Plus it'll be full circle to season 1. 

[apinknightmare]

Yeah, I'm wondering how would they deal with her death, if she dies as BC? Will they drag her to the lair as Laurel did Sara? Or was that just because they had forgotten that the general public knew that Sara was alive?

I'm pretty sure they did forget about that since some of us were questioning it last year. Even so, i think it'd be easier for someone like Sara to disappear than an actual public figure like Laurel. Sara didn't really have many ties to SC when she died. Laurel is the DA-they'd have to explain it somehow.

[tarotx]

Team Arrow can just remove Laurel's BC mask and stage her death as nothing to do with being a vigilante. Instead of Shockingly ADA is the Black Canary, there can be gossip about her being a dominatrix ;)

[Chaser]

I'd prefer that she die as Black Canary, not because of anything that she did as a lawyer. Only because they're all vigilantes doing super dangerous work, and out of all the people who have died on the show, no one on the team has died doing the work that they've all committed to. I think that's something that needs to happen, to put into sharp perspective what it is they do, and how dangerous it is, and that it's not just flesh wounds and occasional trips to the hospital. Seems like there's more mileage to get out of that than yet another city employee biting the dust.

It'd be interesting if she does die as BC though, because how would they explain her death to the general public? Would she be outed? Seems like there'd be more dramatic payoff there, but these writers are just as likely to take the easy way out by having her killed as DA for whatever happens during DD's trial.

With that thought, I think it would be cool if they didn't go for some Big Damn Hero moment. Instead of her being targeted specifically or saving Thea from a Big Bad, she dies in a way that could happen to any one of them. A random Ghost gets a lucky shot off, the wire breaks, the bike crashes, etc...

 

When Alison died on Teen Wolf, there is a scene of her father stressing their cover story and the boys are listening in shock. It's an emotional scene. Arrow would be smart to take that approach. Have them arrange an accident or a scene. She dies as BC but the public believes she was murdered because she was the DA.

Edited March 14, 2016 by Chaser

[looptab]

I'm pretty sure they did forget about that since some of us were questioning it last year. Even so, i think it'd be easier for someone like Sara to disappear than an actual public figure like Laurel. Sara didn't really have many ties to SC when she died. Laurel is the DA-they'd have to explain it somehow.

 I remember, that's why I said it :) I was (trying to) being sarcastic. She can't just disappear, there's a grave and a funeral and all :)

[Angel12d]

This is gonna sound weird but I really hope we find out why there are literally no flowers at the grave. It's really bugging me. I mean, does Laurel get outed as BC when she dies and people stay away? I really can't think of a reason why there wouldn't be flowers unless not many people were there.

 

Don't mind me, just thinking about random pointless crap today. LOL.

[ComicFan777]

If LL dies as the BC, they will probably just change her clothes and have Lance take care of the murder scene.  Given she has prosecuted killers in the past, it's not too surprising she might be killed by one.  DAs seem to drop like flies in Star City.  When Moira died from the sword, I don't think anyone said anything about it.  Strange things just happen in Star City.

[dtissagirl]

The fact that they were shooting pick up scenes for 418 in prison has me wondering whether Laurel does win her first case ever in 416 and sends DD to prison, and then something happens at the prison that gets her killed in 418.

Edited March 14, 2016 by dtissagirl

[Chaser]

The fact that they were shooting pick up scenes for 418 in prison has me wondering whether Laurel does win her first case ever in 416 and sends DD to prison, and then something happens at the prison that gets her killed in 418.

That answers everything. She died of shock!

[Chaser]

It didn't occur to me at first but KC booking that Con is all but confirmation she is leaving the show. She is set to appear Friday thru Sunday. Coming from the east coast, that is basically a full day of travel to and from.

[foreverevolving]

It didn't occur to me at first but KC booking that Con is all but confirmation she is leaving the show. She is set to appear Friday thru Sunday. Coming from the east coast, that is basically a full day of travel to and from.

playing devil's advocate: not really, she's had several prior meetings such, this is something the production schedule (knowing this far in advance) can work around it if needs be, or the writers can minimize Laurel time in the episode but simply not writing her in or giving her only a handful of scenes which can be shot in other days, or not have her in the episode at all.

I think the recent spoilers from recent chicago con and other social media stuff are much more telling imo that she is being killed off, than some con appearance that she is more than likely to cancel anyway at the last minute. 

[Chaser]

I can't see the writers and crew scheduling an entire episode around a fan con. SDCC sure, but not this.

[Sakura12]

Or she'll go because she needs the money now and it's a paid trip to Paris.

[apinknightmare]

I can't see the writers and crew scheduling an entire episode around a fan con. SDCC sure, but not this.

 

Seems like they've worked around her going to NY Fashion Week in the past. 

 

Pretty confident she's in the grave, but this doesn't really mean anything. 

[Chaser]

I thought about that, but NYFW is high profile so I can see a network like The CW supporting an actresses appearance there.