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Morrigan2575

By Morrigan2575
in Arrow

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Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

Me for all of last summer hiatus and 5A: Me after reading the WM interview from a few weeks back about Felicity's arc giving her a more profound understanding of Oliver: Me after r

BkWurm1
BkWurm1

I tend to think that trying to make KC a place on the show had a ripple effect that did hurt the show pretty badly.  She's what turned Quentin stupid and into a creepy stalker.  So that wipes off the

calliope1975
calliope1975

Challenge accepted.

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catrox14

catrox14

I'm just too jaded by the show...and nearly every other show I watch, to believe that things I want will happen.

 

Except for twice ...on TWD.....and figure that is all the universe will give me.

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wonderwall

wonderwall

I denied it at the beginning, purely because I didn't want to get my hopes up, but the more and more information we get about the grave, the more and more I turn into Tom Haverford. 

 

Tom-Haverford-Looks-up-and-smiles.gif

 

Now you can TREAT. YO. SELF

 

tumblr_mzbj4jRt511qeak1oo1_500.gif

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lexicon

lexicon

Would they even care If she's the only reason they watch Arrow? I'd think they are going to jump ship if they kill her off.

 

I would refer you to the drama that's going down with the 100 right now. I'm not even a part of that fandom and I've come across the fallout from Lexa dying. Let's just say I've seen the wrath of the Lexa/Clexa stans and it is a mighty thing to behold. They're not just abandoning ship but seem intent of taking the ship down with them.

 

That being said I doubt they'll be successful...and to return to my original point I think they're a lot more of them than LL/this version of BC/KC fans so I don't expect nearly the same amount of waves after the question of who's in the grave is answered on Arrow.

 

Savvy Arrow fans may also have the benefit of putting the clues together and figuring it out for themselves before, so the death reveal may come as confirmation rather than a shock which can minimise the emotional fallout. Of course every casual viewer I know, answers the possibility of LL being in the grave with "she's the BC" so the reaction post-reveal may still be entirely up in the air. 

 

So...I don't know, is I guess what I'm saying.

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catrox14

catrox14

(edited)

I would refer you to the drama that's going down with the 100 right now. I'm not even a part of that fandom and I've come across the fallout from Lexa dying. Let's just say I've seen the wrath of the Lexa/Clexa stans and it is a mighty thing to behold. They're not just abandoning ship but seem intent of taking the ship down with them.

 

That being said I doubt they'll be successful...and to return to my original point I think they're a lot more of them than LL/this version of BC/KC fans so I don't expect nearly the same amount of waves after the question of who's in the grave is answered on Arrow.

 

Savvy Arrow fans may also have the benefit of putting the clues together and figuring it out for themselves before, so the death reveal may come as confirmation rather than a shock which can minimise the emotional fallout. Of course every casual viewer I know, answers the possibility of LL being in the grave with "she's the BC" so the reaction post-reveal may still be entirely up in the air. 

 

So...I don't know, is I guess what I'm saying.

 

I know about the Clexa situation.

 

I guess I don't see those as being comparable given the nature of why Lexa fans are angry. 

I never believed Stephen didnt know. The guy knew O/F would drive into the sunset at the end of s3, when they finished s2.

 

I guess I don't want to believe Stephen knew because I hate the thought of Oliver crying over Laurel. Yes I'm a terrible person.

Edited by catrox14
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Julie335

Julie335

Chaos in Theory is at the Convention. She mentioned having a chat with CL and CL said "I hope next season I'll be in a different color...i really like black"

Obviously this could be nothing, maybe she's just teasing or maybe she just really liked her Canary costume (which I love). She could also be angling to get the BC title back or she could actually know something.

I just found it amusing.

 

Oh boy. As much as I love Sara and she will always be, to me, the original Black Canary... a comment like that could rile up some Laurel-Black Canary fans... 

 

Yesterday when Katie was saying playing Laurel has been the best experience, WH & CR Rubbed on her in a comforting why. I've been sure it's Laurel in the grave since yesterday. Especially with CR accidentally talking about an alive Quentin when discussing Donna being back for season 5. 

 

Oh boy, that was a spoiler CR probably didn't mean to give away...

 

It would be cool but I doubt they'll do that on top of killing Laurel. Her fans would be so P-Oed.

 

 

No offense but that's exactly what they did to us Sara fans. So, I really don't care if Laurel fans are upset, shit happens. I had to watch Sara go out like a punk, get dropped on a dumperster, have her mask fall off (not quite at Laurel's feet).

Then to add insult to injury they shoved Sara's body in a freezer, had LL dress up in her outfit, take her name, pretend to be Sara (using CL's voice) and have Felicity tell Laurel just how much better she was than Sara.

Karma's a bitch but unlike Sara, Laurel will probably get a heroes exit.

 

Yeah, I think that Laurel will get a hero's send-off. Even though, and perhaps in part because, they did Sara's so poorly.

 

Sara looked awesome in the Black Canary suit! She was the perfect Black Canary. But to me, it's not going to feel "right" to me for her character to do the same thing that Laurel's character did - i.e. take on her sister's persona. I dunno.

 

It does seem like "rubbing salt" in a wound for Laurel fans. As much as I don't like KC's Black Canary, to me, it would feel like what they did to CL's Canary, when she was killed so that KC could take up the mantle.

 

Anyway, black looks good on CL and her character. I kinda like "dark" Sara, both in costume and how she's tortured and not a traditional hero. She looked good in black in that "escape from a Russian prison" episode, and I'm looking forward to seeing her in the traditional, dark League of Assassins garb in the next episode of LoT,  

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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

I know we're not even supposed to be talking about sections of fandom reacting to events on the show... but when has Arrow ever avoided doing something because it would piss off a section of fandom?

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Primal Slayer

Primal Slayer

Yesterday when Katie was saying playing Laurel has been the best experience, WH & CR Rubbed on her in a comforting why. I've been sure it's Laurel in the grave since yesterday. Especially with CR accidentally talking about an alive Quentin when discussing Donna being back for season 5. 

Is there a video of this or just tweets?

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doesntworkonwood

doesntworkonwood

I know we're not even supposed to be talking about sections of fandom reacting to events on the show... but when has Arrow ever avoided doing something because it would piss off a section of fandom?

Obviously Laurel dying is going to annoy people (and I'm mainly talking about critics, particularly feminist ones) because she'll be another female character to die (probably) at the hands of a guy and her death will likely forward someone elses storyline (though to what extent or to whos I'm not sure). I don't like Laurel myself, but I'm not going to defend the show if it does it in a particularly gross (or in some eyes karmic) way. I'm not going to go to great lengths to criticise it either but that's just me... I do think, after the criticisms of the way Sara died, the EP's are going to be more careful about it though

 

And lets face it, they didn't bring back Sara because of anything directly related to the fans or 'the canary initiative' , they bought her back because a show with Ray at the helm would have flopped like a dead cat. Alive Sara made financial sense not because of gaining the (very) few viewers they lost because of her death, but because of the new viewers they could gain by putting her on an ensemble show with a bunch of guys and hawkgirl. If they weren't going to do an ensemble show, there's no way they would have brought her back, despite fan outrage. 

 

I do think that they 'tone down' storylines because of the anticipated fan reaction, but I don't think that they'll avoid storylines because of it, if they did we wouldn't have ended up with Baby Mama Drama and Demon Spawn.

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Ann Mack

Ann Mack

(edited)

I really hope they don't put Sara back in the "Black Canary" outfit. I think its best if they lay it to rest with Laurel. Technically I don't think the writers ever referred to Sara as the Black Canary but just as "Canary". 

 

I would hope Caity wouldn't want to wear it again. I mean it would seem redundant. Laura put on the suit to honor Sara. Laurel gives Sara a white suit without a mask so she can fight in the light. So it would be like IMO if Sara was to put on the black suit to honor Laura (repeat story line) then she also falls back onto her path of darkness and not her path toward light and self discovery.

 

But these shows (LoT and Arrow) will do what they want. But even if Katie Cassidy wasn't the best "Black Canary" or not acknowledged by many as being such, the title for this version of Arrow is however hers and hers alone. Let the woman have that.

 

*If they did refer to Sara at any time on Arrow as the "Black Canary" and not as some woman with a stick and dressed in black please let me know.

Edited by Ann Mack
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Sakura12

Sakura12

(edited)

My point is Sara hasn't done much different as White Canary then she did as The Canary. She's still killing people, dealing with her bloodlust which is a new trauma and rejoining the LOA. She's not fighting in the light, she's just fighting like she always did.

However Sara is Black Canary for me. She doesn't need to have the name spoken on screen for it to change my mind.

Edited by Sakura12
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spartan

spartan

look no further, this is WM that killed laurel,it's frustrating, they are liars, Marc said that in season 5, it would be entitled to lauriver over the picture oliver had him and laurel together.

I'm disappointed we will not be a episode entitled to a true birds of prey with laurel being black canary. I am disappointed through, there were still so much to tell about the history canary back, so she could confront nemesis, it really disgusting. I try to find out why laurel, I'm serious disappointment. WM in the interview will say that laurel is in the grave because they were not able to create stories for her. it's insane clexa The story has nothing to do with lauriver, the actress was already in order in another series against by katie cassidy love playing laurel lance, she has trained very hard for Black canary.
I will enjoy to follow Arrow,until episode 18 of death, and 19, her last appearance, and I would read interviews of departure, finally, I can not follow him in this series, because we already know that it will happen: the next plot olicity wedding and soon the child.
I know this forum, many here are happy.

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bijoux

bijoux

I think they mean Wendy Mericle?

I get it. I just don't know what prompted the outburst and fingerpointung her in particular. Is there an interview or something said at HVFF, or simply the matter of it happening on the season in which she was promoted?

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statsgirl

statsgirl

How could SA know who was in the grave if MG and WM hadn't received permission yet to kill off that character?  Or were they lying too?

 

Maybe Laurel will die at Ruve's hands.  Would that make it any better in terms of fridging?

 

I'd be on board for an Earth 2 Birds of Prey episode.

 

Well I have legitimately been told with all sincerity that the show clearly with mentioning that Oliver cheated on Laurel with BM was intending to remind the audience that Oliver is still a cheater that sleeps around so therefore they are preparing the audience for Oliver to go back to his old ways.  Oh and clearly if the show runners had wanted to show that Oliver had changed, they wouldn't have written him as not being interested in anyone else and being 100% faithful, no the only way they could have shown that Oliver wasn't still the exact same cheater he's always been is if he gets interested in someone while he was with Felicity and only at the last minute decided not to have sex with that person. 

The show is a Hero's Journey. I think it more likely that the reminder that Oliver cheated on Laurel is to show how much he's grown and isn't cheating on Felicity, or moving on from her in a couple of months.

 

I think another consideration is that they might want to do another tie-in comics series this summer (since there was none last summer).  So you have to have Oliver fighting as GA over the summer.  If S4 ends on a cliffhanger, then what's going to happen over the summer?  If they go with real time like they usually do, they can't have anything real significant happen while the show is off the air for 5 months.

 

That's why I think that S4 will end on some kind of hopeful note, with an opportunity for minor storytelling over the summer hiatus.  But I could be completely wrong.  Maybe S4 will end with Felicity disappearing and then Oliver will spend the next 5 months searching for her with no success.

 

Then there's SA saying that S4 ends with a more finalized, balanced Oliver (according to fan tweets from HVFF-Chicago).  So hopefully, Oliver will realize he was wrong about how he handled the whole BMD and will also have defeated Darhk without succumbing to the darkness.  Maybe he and Felicity agree to try again in 423, but their relationship will slowly rebuild over the summer hiatus while he earns her trust on a personal level again.

 

In contrast, flashback Oliver will have succumbed to the darkness - maybe due to Poppy's death.  Then hopefully next season we'll get the Bratva storyline and Oliver doing more fight training (which we haven't seen much of in flashbacks).

 

I like it.  Finally there would be a point to the flashbacks, and the bonus of Oliver actually goes darker as opposed ot being another version of present day Oliver as he is right now.

 

If there is a comics over the summer, having Felicity disappear after they have reconciled and Oliver look for her for the five months would be a great storyline, and set-up a wedding for 5x08 when he's got her back.

.

If Oliver had handled the situation like an adult he wouldn't be in the position he's in now. I know they are saying what the writers are telling them but it rarely ever comes across on screen that way. Repeating it over and over again doesn't change anything. 

I'd like to think so, but in view of how many people are saying that Felicity had no right to know about Oliver's kid, it was none of her business, and it's an abusive relationship,I think having the actors interpret the show for some viewers is a necessity.

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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(edited)

How could SA know who was in the grave if MG and WM hadn't received permission yet to kill off that character? Or were they lying too?.

My thought is that SA was given the same short list that WB, CW, DC got so he knew but also didn't know. If that makes sense. Which, if correct actually means both answers are in fact true at the time given.

Heh, it's Schrodinger Grave LOL

Edited by Morrigan2575
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bijoux

bijoux

(edited)

If there is a comics over the summer, having Felicity disappear after they have reconciled and Oliver look for her for the five months would be a great storyline, and set-up a wedding for 5x08 when he's got her back.

 

Would it, thoug? Because readers would know at the outset that he is doomed to fail, if Felicity does go missing, they'll find her on the show, not in the comics. 

 

ETA: I remembered that the comics come out during the season, so it would work fine as filling in the blanks as to what went on since Felicity would be back by then. Not that I'm really supporting her going missing. Plus, they haven't done a season cliffhanger so far, I don't know that they will start now.

Edited by bijoux
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Lokiberry

Lokiberry

I really hope they don't put Sara back in the "Black Canary" outfit. I think its best if they let it rest with Laurel. Technically I don't think the writers ever referred to Sara as the Black Canary but just as "Canary". 

 

I would hope Caity wouldn't want to wear it again. I mean it would seem redundant. Laura put on the suit to honor Sara. Laurel gives Sara a white suit without a mask so she can fight in the light. So it would be like IMO if Sara was to put on the black suit to honor Laura (repeat story line) then she also falls back onto her path of darkness and not her path toward light and self discovery.

 

But these shows (LoT and Arrow) will do what they want. But even if Katie Cassidy wasn't the best "Black Canary" or not acknowledged by many as being such, the title for this version of Arrow is however hers and hers alone. Let the woman have that.

 

*If they did refer to Sara at any time on Arrow as the "Black Canary" and not as some woman with a stick and dressed in black please let me know.

Honestly, I want Sara to take up the BC mantle, not to honor Laurel's memory, but to finally do justice to the comic book character. I truly love Dinah Lance, and she's been treated pretty disrespectfully by this show. From conception of "Laurel" as Rachel Dawes-lite, to the casting of uncoordinated KC, to the barely trained Insta-Canary, nothing they've done has ever really brought this marvelous character to life; with the exception of when CL was playing the Canary. Establishing Sara as BC, with her backstory and CL's skills, would be the first time Arrow has ever really shown respect to the character.

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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

look no further, this is WM that killed laurel,it's frustrating, they are liars, Marc said that in season 5, it would be entitled to lauriver over the picture oliver had him and laurel together.

I'm disappointed we will not be a episode entitled to a true birds of prey with laurel being black canary. I am disappointed through, there were still so much to tell about the history canary back, so she could confront nemesis, it really disgusting. I try to find out why laurel, I'm serious disappointment. WM in the interview will say that laurel is in the grave because they were not able to create stories for her. it's insane clexa The story has nothing to do with lauriver, the actress was already in order in another series against by katie cassidy love playing laurel lance, she has trained very hard for Black canary.

I will enjoy to follow Arrow,until episode 18 of death, and 19, her last appearance, and I would read interviews of departure, finally, I can not follow him in this series, because we already know that it will happen: the next plot olicity wedding and soon the child.

I know this forum, many here are happy.

What? I have no idea what you're trying to say here.

 

Also, I thought you were sure that LL would die but BC would live?

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hogwash

hogwash

At least Laurel got a fair shot at the vigilante thing? Even if "killing" Sara/Oliver and all the focus/buildup only amounted to a gratuitous butt shot and "I'm the justice you can't outrun." 

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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

I guess a fan asked SA to write his fave Olicity quote, and he wrote "I thought of you..." and said it hasn't happened yet. Someone on Twitter theorized that he tells her he thought of her when RAG killed him, and I kind of love it.


At least Laurel got a fair shot at the vigilante thing? Even if "killing" Sara/Oliver and all the focus/buildup only amounted to a gratuitous butt shot and "I'm the justice you can't outrun." 

It was SO GRATUITOUS. But a great stunt butt.

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catrox14

catrox14

(edited)

 

How could SA know who was in the grave if MG and WM hadn't received permission yet to kill off that character?  Or were they lying too?

 

Sorry to invoke Dean Winchester but this quote is too perfect for this :

 

" Well, that's the problem. See, you don't think anybody's lying. I think everybody's lying."

Edited by catrox14
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statsgirl

statsgirl

Would it, thoug? Because readers would know at the outset that he is doomed to fail, if Felicity does go missing, they'll find her on the show, not in the comics.

It would give them a storyline, hunting for Felicity.  She could even give them clues when she can escape from her captors for a time.  Meanwhile, Oliver, Diggle and Thea, with the help of their friends (Barry, Caitlin, Cisco, Vixen?) look for her and fight the bad guys that get in the way.

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

(edited)
The show is a Hero's Journey. I think it more likely that the reminder that Oliver cheated on Laurel is to show how much he's grown and isn't cheating on Felicity, or moving on from her in a couple of months.

 

 

I'm with you but I couldn't help but share the dark side.  ;)

Maybe Laurel will die at Ruve's hands.  Would that make it any better in terms of fridging?

 

I'd be on board for an Earth 2 Birds of Prey episode.

 

 

 

I like it.  Finally there would be a point to the flashbacks, and the bonus of Oliver actually goes darker as opposed ot being another version of present day Oliver as he is right now.

 

If there is a comics over the summer, having Felicity disappear after they have reconciled and Oliver look for her for the five months would be a great storyline, and set-up a wedding for 5x08 when he's got her back.

.

I'd like to think so, but in view of how many people are saying that Felicity had no right to know about Oliver's kid, it was none of her business, and it's an abusive relationship,I think having the actors interpret the show for some viewers is a necessity.

Ruve killing Laurel doesn't explain killing "him" though. 

 

I'd be ok with an Earth2 Birds of Prey (yes with Laurel Lance returning)  Wouldn't be thrilled but could live with the bone thrown (as long as it didn't end with said Laurel Lance moving to Earth One like in the comics)   

 

It seems the showrunners are too busy for the comic book extras though if they accepted JB's pitch then maybe they'd be open to a good idea if it landed at their feet.

 

I didn't realize the "Oliver is in an abusive relationship" theory existed outside of that site that shall not be named.  Well that probably explains where the notion came from in the first place.   

 

My thought is that SA was given the same short list that WB, CW, DC got so he knew but also didn't know. If that makes sense. Which, if correct actually means both answers are in fact true at the time given.

Heh, it's Schrodinger Grave LOL

Lol!  That's exactly where my mind went reading your first sentence. 

 

I guess a fan asked SA to write his fave Olicity quote, and he wrote "I thought of you..." and said it hasn't happened yet. Someone on Twitter theorized that he tells her he thought of her when RAG killed him, and I kind of love it.

It was SO GRATUITOUS. But a great stunt butt.

I'd be fine if he brought it up again but Tatsu told Felicity just that last year to get her to keep fighting for Oliver. 

Edited by BkWurm1
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SmallScreenDiva

SmallScreenDiva

It would give them a storyline, hunting for Felicity.  She could even give them clues when she can escape from her captors for a time.  Meanwhile, Oliver, Diggle and Thea, with the help of their friends (Barry, Caitlin, Cisco, Vixen?) look for her and fight the bad guys that get in the way.

 

They already kinda did that in the 2.5 comics, when the new Brother Blood took Felicity and Diggle. If they are doing another comics, I'd rather Felicity not be kidnapped and separated from everybody. I want her to be working with her team, not marooned on another island, even if it's just the comics.

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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

I'd be fine if he brought it up again but Tatsu told Felicity just that last year to get her to keep fighting for Oliver. 

Hmm, then even if he doesn't know Felicity knows, I guess the audience (or that part of the audience that watched/paid attention to those episodes), would know she knows, so it'd be pretty anticlimactic.

 

I wonder what it is, then? Maybe when he almost dies again in 17?

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