Spoiler Discussion Thread

[thegirlsleuth]

I'd post this in hopes and fears, since it almost entirely speculation except for the fact that Laurel is likely in the grave, but I have been very afraid that they are going to throw the Laurel/Oliver fans a bone before she shuffles off this mortal coil and write them a romantic scene. It may even be in flashbacks. If that's what the writers of 4.17 had to do I imagine it would be very difficult, especially since I will be setting them on fire with my brain while the episode airs.

[looptab]

I'm thinking the thing they're worrying about is something new for the show. 

While I do hope for Felicity to have a role in the rescuing, I very much doubt they'll have her use the T-Spheres. I'd like it, but I don't see it happen. Especially in the episode that brings Curtis into the fold, I'd imagine he'll be the one having a hero moment.

Edited March 11, 2016 by looptab

[lemotomato]

The flashbacks in 417 will have to be island flashbacks, since the show is apparently taking a break from them in 418 (Lance flashbacks) and maybe even 419. If the writers are nervous about something, maybe it's about the "romance" between Oliver and Poppy.

[looptab]

Am I too optimistic if I wish that a rock falls over Poppy's head during their subterranean adventures? Please spare my poor eyes any romantic scenes with those two. Please.

[lemotomato]

I'll just fast forward through them like I've been doing the last couple episodes. Not like they've mattered at all this season anyway :P

[BkWurm1]

From what I understand, nobody really apologized to Felicity. Thea flashed her a guilty look, BM said to blame her (which is arguably apology-adjacent), and Felicity told Oliver "You're right, you should have told me," meaning there might have been an offscreen acknowledgment that he should have told her, at least, which is also apology-adjacent.

What a crapfest episode for Felicity. SO glad it's over.

 

I don't need the words "I'm sorry"  but I do need to actually have Oliver say those apology adjacent stuff, like I shouldn't have kept the truth from you blah, blah. 

 

I know I'm in the minority on this one but I really don't want Malcolm to die until the end of the series. IMO, he is still the best villain, because he's so unpredictable. I mean we KNOW he's going to do some kind of crazy shit but we just can't always guess what they will be..(well, I did once but that's beside the point).

 

I like that Malcolm really does think he's not crazy which makes him even more crazy. His total lack of self-awareness is epic. I hate him but I love to hate him. I think they made a mistake last season with the convoluted manner he became Ra's Al Ghul but he's just straight up BSC and has been all along. I just think he's a fun asshole villain. 

I don't need him dead, I just need him off doing his own evil thing without the show falling over itself for a reason for the rest of the cast to interact.  Do a Lex Luthor on Smallville and just give him his own minions and let Team Arrow fight and foil them.  Maybe shout at him from a far every once and a while.  I've like how they've used him lately apart from his conversations with Thea. 

 

 

My head!canon is that on some level Oliver can't quite bring himself to kill Malcolm because of Tommy.  He lied to Tommy about not killing Malcolm when Tommy was dying and Tommy was so grateful that Oliver didn't kill him, that I wonder if that still sits with Oliver. Tommy's death was the entire reason Oliver stopped killing. Maybe on some level he thinks that would be a final breaking of Tommy's heart. I dunno.

 

Like I said, just my head!canon.  

It's the only thing that I cling to as well.  Makes me all kinds of emotional.  They really should have Oliver confess that to someone.  Sigh, even Laurel. 

 

 

Am I too optimistic if I wish that a rock falls over Poppy's head during their subterranean adventures? Please spare my poor eyes any romantic scenes with those two. Please.

Would it make you feel better to hear that in that new novel tie in that basically tells season two from Slade and his minion's viewpoint, I've been told that there is mention of a grave on the island with Poppy's name on it.  It's second hand info but fingers crossed.  Of course that would only make sense if Slade (or minion) returned to the island after Oliver's 4th year missing, but at least it's possible.   

Edited March 11, 2016 by BkWurm1

[BkWurm1]

This kind of worries me lol

 

 

Could be the technical challenges of robot henchmen or them trying to write a new way for Brie and Felicity to hack fight that doesn't seem like a complete repeat of Felicity vs the Calculator. 

 

Challenging in a good way doesn't cry out to me as a Lauliver warning. 

[looptab]

Yeah, I figured Poppy would eventually be the inoccupant of that fourth grave. I just wish it happened sooner rather than later :)

[bijoux]

I am telling you, Oliver needs to be the one to kill her. It would solve so many narrative problems.

[catrox14]

 

Yeah, I figured Poppy would eventually be the inoccupant of that fourth grave. I just wish it happened sooner rather than later :)

 

I shit you not, I read this as "Poopy" and found it so amusing ...and now I'm just going to call her Poopy.  Hi, I'm an adult...

[looptab]

I am telling you, Oliver needs to be the one to kill her. It would solve so many narrative problems.

If only...

Hee, Poopy works for me :)

[wonderwall]

Challenging in a good way doesn't cry out to me as a Lauliver warning. 

 

Oh no nononononono. No. I'm not worried about Loliver AT ALL considering I'm 99% sure Laurel's in the grave lol. I'm just worried about bad storytelling or something really controversial. Arrow doesn't do controversial well.

[jay741982]

I'm half expecting a scene where we see Thea get all hypocritical with Felicity or something but I'm probably off base

[Password]

I'm half expecting a scene where we see Thea get all hypocritical with Felicity or something but I'm probably off base

Considering Guggie is the brain child of this story, follow that feeling.

I expect everything.

[tv echo]

Someone had a theory that Felicity is holding a T-Sphere because she'll use them to help save everyone in the company from Brie... I thought that was really interesting and I hope that happens haha

 

After reading the 417 writers' tweets, I also think that Felicity uses the T-spheres in 417.  That would both be a technical challenge and also cause strong viewer reaction (both ways).  Oliver is supposed to be seriously injured in 416 or 417, so he may be hampered in his ability to swoop in and save everyone.  Also, Brie's expertise is teckky computer stuff.  So he likely enlists the help of Curtis, who manages to somehow communicate with Felicity who's inside Palmer Tech.  Together, they manage to outmaneuver and defeat Brie.  Also, remember, MG's Bily Joel song pick for 417 is "She's Always a Woman."

Edited March 11, 2016 by tv echo

[Chaser]

Those tweets could mean anything. It could be something technical or a specific scene or plot point, it could involve the good guys or its about the villains.

We know that Felicity isn't in 4x18, I'm wondering if they give her a reason to have limited time. It's possible the hospital set isn't for Oliver, but for Felicity. I will be so mad if they give her back the ability only to take it away (so mad). Or Donna gets hurt and Felicity goes back to Vegas with her (I doubt this because CR was in full Donna mode in that BTS IG).

[Scribbles]

After reading the 417 writers' tweets, I also think that Felicity uses the T-spheres in 417.  That would both be a technical challenge and also cause strong viewer reaction (both ways).  Oliver is supposed to be seriously injured in 416 or 417, so he may be hampered in his ability to swoop in and save everyone.  Also, Brie's expertise is teckky computer stuff.  So he likely enlists the help of Curtis, who manages to somehow communicate with Felicity who's inside Palmer Tech.  Together, they manage to outmaneuver and defeat Brie.  Also, remember, MG's Bily Joel song pick for 417 is "She's Always a Woman."

 

When Oliver on the magic table of dreams and healing was spoiled, my first thought was....if they break up either of them in life threatening danger would be reason to ask "do I want to live without him/her?"  I suspect it is a device to make Felicity put her feelings about his character flaws in perspective. Think ...every moment is precious.

[bijoux]

We know that Felicity isn't in 4x18,

 

We do? I remember something about her not being in Vancouver but do we have confirmation that it was during the whole time the episode was filmed?

[Chaser]

I meant to write 'much.' She isn't in 4x18 much.

I believe she may have only filmed one day.

[AyChihuahua]

I really and truly cannot imagine they'd take away her ability to walk right after giving it back. I'm betting in S5 or S6 something will happen with the chip to make us all worry about, but I don't think she'll ever be in a wheelchair for any appreciable amount of time again.

[Morrigan2575]

I meant to write 'much.' She isn't in 4x18 much.

I believe she may have only filmed one day.

Can someone please clear this up for me because i can't find any proof of that at all. We know she was filming on 418 for the first day of shooting 2/12. As far as I can tell she's in Vancouver until 2/19.

2/18 she's tweeting about strangers giving her dog treats.

2/19 she's tweeting about getting coffee or being late (flight?) And then another tweet clearly from LA where she's talking about the UPS truck with her roommates. There's also the first picture of her in LA (in the trunk of a car).

As far as I can tell she was in Vancouver from 2/12 - 2/18 and easily could have filmed on inside sets.  Unless there's something I'm missing that shows all of her pics of Fantasy (or whatever her name is) are from LA?

 

Now she could be limited but, keep in mind, the least amount of screentime she's had in S4 was in 410 (6.1 minutes). The next two least screentimes were 408 (8.46 minutes) and 407 (9.32 minutes).  Every other episode she's had at double digit screentime, so the odds of her filming only 1 day for 418 are very low, IMO.

Edited March 11, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[kismet]

When Oliver on the magic table of dreams and healing was spoiled, my first thought was....if they break up either of them in life threatening danger would be reason to ask "do I want to live without him/her?"  I suspect it is a device to make Felicity put her feelings about his character flaws in perspective. Think ...every moment is precious.

This is where I envision them going with the story. Parallel life & death moments put everything in perspective. They still have loads to work through, but it will bring them to want to work through it together rather than apart.

 

Also randomly, your post inspired me to imagine the scenes being played out to Celine Dion's "All coming back to me" blaring in my head. So thanks for my youtube detour this morning. :) Nothing like a good power ballad to power through the melodrama. I know MG loves his Billy Joel. But I swear the writers room secretly plays a rotating collection of woman power-balladeers like Celine, Adele, Whitney, etc.

[tv echo]

I don't have anything regarding Felicity being in 418.  However, if Donna is in an episode, then Felicity is almost certainly in the same episode.

 

On Thursday, Feb. 18, CR tweeted: "Nooooo @EmilyBett -I want to Nemo w/ you!! ???? We'll have Nemo pajama party next week!" (CR tweet, page 881 of Spoiler Discussion thread)

 

The following week was Feb. 21-27.

 

Since 418 shoot dates were Feb. 12-23 and 419 shoot dates were Feb. 24 - Mar. 4, CR could've been returning to shoot 418 or 419 (or both).

 

On Monday, Feb. 29, CR tweeted: "Back in town... #arrow @ Vancouver, British Columbia." (CR tweet, page 33 of Spoilers thread)

 

So CR was definitely filming for 419. (And we already know that Felicity is in 419.)

Edited March 11, 2016 by tv echo

[Chaser]

What was the Stanley Cup day? SA said she wasn't filming that day.

Then I want to say there was a couple days were they were filming outside and she wasn't there.

'Much' is probably a fan assumption. Not a lot of set reports with her and the knowledge that it seems to be an episode focused on the Lance Family.

[Velocity23]

Monday was the day of Stanley Cup after the Dallas Con. Willa and Emily werent on set.

We know that Willa, Paul, Stephen and Katie  were spoting together filming for several days in a school and the mayoral campaign thingies were spotted with Ruve Adams merchandise.

[tv echo]

PRELIMINARY SUMMARY OF 418 SPOILERS

 

S4, Episode 18: Eleven-Fifty-Nine
-- Production code: 418.  Shoot Dates: Feb. 12-23, 2016.  Director: Rob Hardy.  Writers: Marc Guggenheim & Keto Shimizu.  Airdate: Apr. 6, 2016?  (MG tweet, page 31 of Spoilers thread)
-- 418 synopsis: TBA.
-- Per MG, 418 began shooting on Feb. 12. (MG tweet, page 31 of Spoilers thread)
-- MG's Billy Joel song pick for 418 is "Famous Last Words." (MG tumblr post, page 31 of Spoilers thread)
-- On Feb. 12, PB posted pic of Quentin wearing a flashback wig. (PB tweet, page 316 of Social Media thread)
-- On Feb. 17-18, Arrow was filming at Vancouver Community College on East Broadway (with "Queen for Mayor 2016" pic).  (YVRShoots tweet, page 31 of Spoilers thread, and Oliver Queen Films Notification Letter, page 878 of Spoiler Discussion thread)
-- Scenes being shot at Vancouver Community College have to do with the mayoral campaign.  (YVRShoots tweet , page 31 of Spoilers thread)
-- On Feb. 17, SA, WH and KC were filming something for mayoral campaign; and PB and KC filmed a coffee shop scene.  (Juvelyz in VC tweets, page 880 of Spoiler Discussion thread)
-- Taiana will appear in 418 because ER was on the Arrow set on Feb. 23.  (ER tweet page 32 of Spoilers thread)
-- Unclear whether Donna will appear in 418.  On Feb. 18, CR tweeted: "Nooooo @EmilyBett -I want to Nemo w/ you!! ???? We'll have Nemo pajama party next week!" (CR tweet, page 881 of Spoiler Discussion thread)

[Morrigan2575]

What was the Stanley Cup day? SA said she wasn't filming that day.

Then I want to say there was a couple days were they were filming outside and she wasn't there.

'Much' is probably a fan assumption. Not a lot of set reports with her and the knowledge that it seems to be an episode focused on the Lance Family.

Yes but that's one day.  All I'm saying is that her not being there on Monday of Stanley Cup doesn't mean she only filmed 1 day (4/12).  That's the problem I'm having with this argument.  Is she limited in 418?  Yes, quite probably.  Is she only in 1 scene?  Highly doubtful.   

Edited March 11, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[tv echo]

I'm not sure of the reliability of this IMDB info, so I'm not putting it in the Spoilers thread...

 

IMDB lists Kevin Tancharoen as the director of 421:
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1160495/

 

IMDB also says that 418 will air on Apr. 13, that 419 will air on Apr. 20, that 420 will air on Apr. 27, that 421 will air on May 4, that 422 will air on May 11, and that 423 will air on May 25:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt4862552/?ref_=tt_ep_pr
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt4862550/?ref_=tt_ep_pr
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt4862548/?ref_=tt_ep_pr
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt4862556/?ref_=nm_flmg_dr_2
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt4862558/?ref_=tt_ep_pr
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt4862554/?ref_=tt_ep_nx

 

If the IMDB info is accurate, this would mean a one-week break after 417 and a one-week break after 422.

Edited March 11, 2016 by tv echo

[Morrigan2575]

The director might be right, if his people went in an updated his information.

 

I find the 1 week break before 422/423 odd, they're skipping both a Sweeps Week and putting an unnecessary break in between the penultimate episode and the Season 4 finale.  I'm going to take this one with a grain of salt. 

[calliope1975]

I don't know if I get anti-chemistry from #Poppy and Oliver; it's more like a void of anything. I get nothing between them. You could remove her from the scenes, and I doubt I would notice. I can't even say I'm not looking forward to whatever the do romantically because she's such a non-entity. I really hope someone, somewhere, at the network, or studio, or in editing...ANYONE...is letting them know how boring and terribad the flashbacks are this year. To think I thought last year was bad. What a sweet, summer child I was. 

[apinknightmare]

I don't know if I get anti-chemistry from #Poppy and Oliver; it's more like a void of anything. I get nothing between them. You could remove her from the scenes, and I doubt I would notice. I can't even say I'm not looking forward to whatever the do romantically because she's such a non-entity.

 

Since they haven't done anything other than have Ghost!Shado refer to her as Oliver's "love" (LMAO), I'm hoping that since we're so far into the season and they haven't done anything apart from that one mention(and it doesn't look like they're going to be alone together anytime soon), that we're not going to get the most awkward sex scene in history. Maybe they'll just kiss or something? Please god, let them just kiss. 

[looptab]

To think I thought last year was bad. What a sweet, summer child I was. 

Seriously. The story wasn't great, but I liked Maseo and Tatsu. This year Conklin was the only saving grace, and they killed him.

[Tallis]

Would it make you feel better to hear that in that new novel tie in that basically tells season two from Slade and his minion's viewpoint, I've been told that there is mention of a grave on the island with Poppy's name on it.  It's second hand info but fingers crossed.  Of course that would only make sense if Slade (or minion) returned to the island after Oliver's 4th year missing, but at least it's possible.

I have the book right here and can confirm that on page 225, Slade revisits Shado's grave (about 4 years after he left the island, according to the book) and notes that there's a new grave; "A burial plot marked with the name Taiana".

[dtissagirl]

I wonder if someone at the network realized the flashbacks are snoreville mcboredom, and told them no flashback episode this season?

[apinknightmare]

If so, I'd like to send that person a thank you letter. 

[quarks]

I really hope someone, somewhere, at the network, or studio, or in editing...ANYONE...is letting them know how boring and terribad the flashbacks are this year. 

 

I'm sure it's been brought up, since "the flashbacks are boring" has been the most consistent fan/critical complaint all season, and worse, apart from mentioning that, almost no one - fan or critic - is discussing the flashbacks, which from the CW's point of view is a negative. 

[looptab]

Yeah, they have to know, since the time for the flashbacks has been drastically reduced.

[ComicFan777]

Does anyone know if they did a chem test between Oliver and Poppy?  I would have thought they would learn their lesson after LL.  It should have been abundantly clear that there is no chemistry at all between Oliver and Poppy, or else they really need to re-work the chem test they are using.

 

How do you think they are going to relate the flashback with the present?  If the inner workings of the magic tattoo or a totem he finds is really the only thing coming from flashbacks, then I would have rather preferred Oliver recall in a single scene in the present - well, we can use my tattoo/totem to defeat DD now because blah blah blah in the past - one explanation in the present instead of having flashbacks this season.  If flashbacks are somehow showing a parallel between olicity and Oliver/Poppy, then I really don't think it is working at all.  I guess if they are going for contrast, that works because olicity is interesting and Oliver/Poppy is a snorefest and I haven't been paying attention to flashbacks, so kinda pointless.

Edited March 11, 2016 by ComicFan777

[FurryFury]

Would it make you feel better to hear that in that new novel tie in that basically tells season two from Slade and his minion's viewpoint

 

Ooh, there's a novel from Slade's POV? Could you tell more about that?

[ComicFan777]

Ooh, there's a novel from Slade's POV? Could you tell more about that?

 

I think the book is called Arrow Vengeance written by Oscar Balderrama and Lauren Certo.

 

Part of the overview I got on amazon.com:

"Also a survivor of Lian Yu, Slade Wilson’s ultimate goal is Oliver’s doom, and he recruits Isabel Rochev, whose hatred for the Queens knows no bounds. Brother Blood, while seeking to do what is right, also finds himself inextricably tangled in Wilson’s machinations.

This is the untold story behind the rise and fall of the Arrow."

 

[Midnight Lullaby]

About Emily filming for 18..now it's been a few weeks so it's possible I'm missing something, but what I remember is: she was on set on the first day that was a Friday, than the others went to the con and KC to NYC. On Monday she wasn't on set, on Tuesday no idea, on Wednesday and Thursday they filmed the campaign event, the coffee scene and Lance family FBs. On Thursday there were people on set that reported they saw SA, Willa, KC and Paul and when asked about Emily said she wasn't there. On Friday she was in LA (Jarret posted a snapchat) and she filmed that comedy thing. On Monday she was in LA because her LA roommate said she listened to her giving the interview to Chris who called her. No idea about Tuesday that was the last day they filmed for 18. I don't know if we had more info but right now I don't remember more.

[SmallScreenDiva]

I'm sure it's been brought up, since "the flashbacks are boring" has been the most consistent fan/critical complaint all season, and worse, apart from mentioning that, almost no one - fan or critic - is discussing the flashbacks, which from the CW's point of view is a negative. 

 

Yeah, any mention I've read about flashbacks always included the word "boring." Maureen Ryan tweeted about it the other night:

 

"I will never stop watching #Arrow, but this season, this is me during all non-Constantine island flashbacks" and then used this photo

 

 

I'm still not seeing what kind of compare/contrast they're trying to do between Oliver/Felicity and Oliver/Poopy. Is it the lie? Because that seems to be over in the flashbacks, unless Poopy decides to betray O later over it. If they were bent on contrasting couples, I would have preferred Oliver/Felicity and Damien/Ruve. 

[ComicFan777]

I'm still not seeing what kind of compare/contrast they're trying to do between Oliver/Felicity and Oliver/Poopy. Is it the lie? Because that seems to be over in the flashbacks, unless Poopy decides to betray O later over it. If they were bent on contrasting couples, I would have preferred Oliver/Felicity and Damien/Ruve. 

 

If the point of flashbacks is to show that Oliver was less of an idiot in the past because he told Poppy the truth, then it just makes me sad.

 

If telling Poppy the truth leads her to betraying Oliver and that experience is one of the reasons why Oliver felt he should lie to Felicity, then I don't know what that says about Oliver because Felicity is nothing like Poppy.

Edited March 11, 2016 by ComicFan777

[catrox14]

Yeah, any mention I've read about flashbacks always included the word "boring." Maureen Ryan tweeted about it the other night:

 

"I will never stop watching #Arrow, but this season, this is me during all non-Constantine island flashbacks" and then used this photo

 

 

I'm still not seeing what kind of compare/contrast they're trying to do between Oliver/Felicity and Oliver/Poopy. Is it the lie? Because that seems to be over in the flashbacks, unless Poopy decides to betray O later over it. If they were bent on contrasting couples, I would have preferred Oliver/Felicity and Damien/Ruve. 

 

@SmallScreenDiva.

 

I feel so proud that someone has adopted "Poopy".  Thank you :)

[Ann Mack]

Did I miss something or did Stephen bypass Meme-Monday and FanArt Friday this week? I know he's skipped them before but he's usually on a vacation or something when he knows he won't be on SM much! Also wondering what the HVFF Chicago is going to be like, since people know the death episode has been filmed, should be an interesting weekend for all the Arrow participants attending!

[AyChihuahua]

Echo Kellum tweeted his excitement about renewal, a bunch of people, including me, asked if that meant he'd be back in S5, he responded that he's feeling very optimistic. I know Curtis Holt is a bit controversial around here, but I really like him, so I'm hoping that means he's back. I think he and EBR are great together.

 

Additionally, for what it's worth, Paul Blackthorne tweeted excitement about renewal as well and used the term "we." So...

Edited March 11, 2016 by AyChihuahua

[Chaser]

I like Echo and I like Curtis. I'm just not thrilled with some of the ways they have used him.

[Ann Mack]

Echo Kellum tweeted his excitement about renewal, a bunch of people, including me, asked if that meant he'd be back in S5, he responded that he's feeling very optimistic. I know Curtis Holt is a bit controversial around here, but I really like him, so I'm hoping that means he's back. I think he and EBR are great together.

 

Additionally, for what it's worth, Paul Blackthorne tweeted excitement about renewal as well and used the term "we." So...

Why is Curtis controversial? Yeah I posted the "regular cast" member's response over in the spoiler section cause I never know what to or not to post. I also posted Charlotte's response. But I thought Curtis was a well like character so could you expand on why he is considered controversial?

[tangerine95]

I like Curtis too,I just wouldn't want another mask now that we're finally getting rid of one. So if he helps from time to time and remains a supporting character no one I care about needs to prop or be dumbed down for, I'd be okay with him coming back for season 5.

[Midnight Lullaby]

I don't mind Curtis because Echo makes him work, but what I'm wary of is recurring masked characters that somehow always seem to get more consideration on the show than the regular characters. So I won't be upset if Curtis will be back but I can't say I would be happy either.