Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Guest]

Oh, I'm sorry. I thought we were finally getting Diggle and Felicity focused stories and now we have LoA crap to deal with? Thanks so much.

 

I mean, I do really want Nyssa or Thea to slice Malcolm's neck open but can't it happen later?

[tv echo]

Also, remember this spoiler from WM's interview with EW: "[Nyssa's] going to be basically putting a knife in Malcolm’s back for the rest of the season, and really changing the nature and the context of the League of Assassins as a result." 

 

Nyssa is in both 412 and 413 so be prepared for back-to-back Nyssa..

-- 412 synopis: "ROY HARPER RETURNS; NYSSA MAKES HER MOVE -- The team faces off against a formidable villain nicknamed The Calculator (guest star Tom Amandes). Meanwhile, Nyssa (guest star Katrina Law) makes her move and Roy Harper (guest star Colton Haynes) returns to Star City. Kevin Fair directed the episode written by Speed Weed & Beth Schwartz (#412). Original airdate 2/3/2016."

-- 413 synopsis: "NYSSA MAKES OLIVER AN OFFER – Oliver (Stephen Amell) receives an offer from Nyssa (guest star Katrina Law) that is hard to refuse. Meanwhile, Thea (Willa Holland) continues to battle the blood lust, Malcolm (John Barrowman) steps in to help his daughter, and Laurel (Katie Cassidy) has a heart to heart talk with Nyssa. Gordon Verheul directed the episode written by Ben Sokolowski & Keto Shimizu (#413). Original airdate 2/10/2016."

Edited January 22, 2016 by tv echo

[Chaser]

Any ideas on the offer? Since Malcolm is stepping in to help Thea, I imagine the offer has something to do with DD or helping Felicity.

 

I'm still pissed there is no mention of Felicity in episodes that are supposed to really feature her.

[Morrigan2575]

Nyssa is also in 415.

[bijoux]

Any ideas on the offer? Since Malcolm is stepping in to help Thea, I imagine the offer has something to do with DD or helping Felicity.

 

No clue honestly, since Nyssa is supposed to be against Malcolm and Oliver seems unreasonably married to the idea of keeping him alive, plus he's got his own issues at that point. The only thing that comes to mind is offering a cure for Thea's bloodlust.

[Guest]

If Nyssa is trying to get the LoA back, this makes me think even more that Malcolm is going to team up with Damien or something. 

[AyChihuahua]

I said awhile ago that as much as I like Nyssa I would happily never see her on the show again if it could mean no more LoA. Everything about the LoA sucks. Hopefully if MM is S5's Big Bad, he's dethroned or the LoA itself is gone, because if not it will basically be Oliver v. RAG and his League of Incompetent Henchmen again, and S4 is already too much of a repeat of S3 for me (or about to be, with the team split and at odds, AGAIN, and Oliver partnering with MM over his team, AGAIN).

[way2interested]

Any ideas on the offer? Since Malcolm is stepping in to help Thea, I imagine the offer has something to do with DD or helping Felicity.

 

I'm still pissed there is no mention of Felicity in episodes that are supposed to really feature her.

I figured that it would be support for Oliver once he battles Darhk again. Like, if Oliver helps her get rid of Malcolm (maybe kill him?) then Nyssa, once she takes control of the League, will bring them to help Oliver defeat HIVE once and for all, but that's just what I jumped to think with what might be going on (Darhk taking a break from attacking to city until what seems to be 414).

 

I got annoyed too with the complete lack of mentioning Felicity, even though it makes sense in a way. 411's and 412's plots came out before 410 did, and they had to pretend that Felicity was dead at that point. Then in 413, which did come out after 410, they would probably have to hide what happens in 411 and 412 (Felicity possibly quitting the team or the Calculator being her father), so they just completely avoid mentioning Felicity completely just to make things simpler. It kind of sucks, since it contradicts WM's insistence that they are exploring Felicity's dark journey with her injury and the mentioning that they would explore Felicity's father, but it does make me wonder how much her plot is really going to be in 412 and 413. I honestly think that it would be a significant portion of both of those episodes, but we'll find out more once those promos/pictures come up. Heck, 411's plot didn't mention Felicity either, yet all of the promos are stressing that it's a reactionary episode for her, so I'm guessing the same for 412 and 413.

[Morrigan2575]

Stupid question but wouldn't Oliver be able to get the same offer out of Malcolm?  Personally, I'd trust Nyssa more than Malcolm but Oliver seems to put more stock in Malcolm.

 

Oh lord, please tell me they aren't bringing that stupid marriage thing back.  Because I'll be really pissed off if Nyssa's offer is related to Olicity's engagement.  Of course I'll LMAO if Nyssa offers to use the LP to heal Felicity...which is either a lie because she poisoned it and since no one talks on this show Oliver doesn't know. Or perhaps she actually saved some water and it lying to Oliver about letting him use it on Felicity?

 

Last bit. I'm taking the recent Spoiler Only post (ew spoiler) as confirmation that Calculator is Felicity's father.  All in favor?

[wonderwall]

Last bit. I'm taking the recent Spoiler Only post (ew spoiler) as confirmation that Calculator is Felicity's father.  All in favor?

 

Aye! I'm all for it. Tom Amandes is great! Nice to see EBR will have a seasoned actor to play off of. Those scenes will be wonderful to watch.

[way2interested]

Stupid question but wouldn't Oliver be able to get the same offer out of Malcolm?  Personally, I'd trust Nyssa more than Malcolm but Oliver seems to put more stock in Malcolm.

 

Oh lord, please tell me they aren't bringing that stupid marriage thing back.  Because I'll be really pissed off if Nyssa's offer is related to Olicity's engagement.  Of course I'll LMAO if Nyssa offers to use the LP to heal Felicity...which is either a lie because she poisoned it and since no one talks on this show Oliver doesn't know. Or perhaps she actually saved some water and it lying to Oliver about letting him use it on Felicity?

 

Last bit. I'm taking the recent Spoiler Only post (ew spoiler) as confirmation that Calculator is Felicity's father.  All in favor?

Malcolm said he couldn't afford to get the League involved with fighting HIVE, where I would think that Nyssa might be more willing if in part it gets rid of Malcolm, or at least that was my thought process. 

 

But oh gosh, I completely forgot about that, so that at least would have to come up I suppose? Hopefully it doesn't hold much weight in the plot. I would also wonder what would Tatsu have to do with any of this, since she and Nyssa seem to be fighting in an upcoming episode?

 

Last point, I'm pretty sure that David Rapaport's statement about casting her father and then suddenly Tom Amandes' casting announcement comes out was all the confirmation I needed, but I do love Wendy's roundabout way of avoiding saying "yes." Also, very intrigued with her comment about him having a lot of kindness and malice.

[Morrigan2575]

Malcolm said he couldn't afford to get the League involved with fighting HIVE, where I would think that Nyssa might be more willing if in part it gets rid of Malcolm, or at least that was my thought process.

 

Ah, I probably missed it because I zone out when Malcolm is on the screen (I hate him) or just totally forgot.

 

But oh gosh, I completely forgot about that, so that at least would have to come up I suppose? Hopefully it doesn't hold much weight in the plot. I would also wonder what would Tatsu have to do with any of this, since she and Nyssa seem to be fighting in an upcoming episode?

 

This is probably me being hugely bitter because I HATE that storyline with a passion but, there was something MG said at the start of the season that always made me think it would come back into play.  Especially after they through in that "sister" line in 403

 

Last point, I'm pretty sure that David Rapaport's statement about casting her father and then suddenly Tom Amandes' casting announcement comes out was all the confirmation I needed, but I do love Wendy's roundabout way of avoiding saying "yes." Also, very intrigued with her comment about him having a lot of kindness and malice.

 

Yeah, I've been saying  (and I think we all figured it was fact) that The Calculator was Felicity's father.  I just meant I'm taking this as "offical" confirmation even if she didn't really officially confirm it...which is kind of amusing in it's own way 

[EmilyBettFan]

Ugh I'm so mad they still try to give big episodes for Felicity and or Diggle to other people like Nyssa and Laurel. They've had their chances over and over again. I just don't understand why some characters get all these arcs that don't work as opposed to giving characters that do work their time to shine.

[lexicon]

I'm wondering if Oliver decides not to help, then Malcolm does some terrible shit that gets the grave dweller killed, and the "he" they're referring to in the FFs *is* Malcolm. Because at this point (and I know we've got an ep until this happens), I'm not sure why Oliver would help Nyssa? Malcolm's not a thorn in Oliver's side right now (and has been helpful on occasion), so...again, no thanks.

 

Well he is her husband. 

[AyChihuahua]

Well he is her husband. 

If it turns out that it is something about their "marriage," such as Nyssa telling Oliver she won't grant him an annulment or divorce or whatever bullshit Guggie comes up with, I will be positive that Guggie hates Arrow's audience. That was one of the most-hated storylines from the most-hated season, and if brings it back full-bore by treating it as an actual valid marriage that is a stumbling block to an O/F marriage, I mean, WOW. And right before the likely breakup episode, during Felicity's paralysis.

 

Hopefully it's just Nyssa's promise to ally fully with Oliver against HIVE/DD, with no reference to that BS other than a jokey one.

Edited January 22, 2016 by AyChihuahua

[Guest]

Does Lyla still work for ARGUS? Because she's with Waller in the trailer for 411 and I thought she quit because of baby Sara? Did I miss something?

[Primal Slayer]

She is their only star agent so she keeps coming out of retirement.

[apinknightmare]

Does Lyla still work for ARGUS? Because she's with Waller in the trailer for 411 and I thought she quit because of baby Sara? Did I miss something?

 

She did quit, but then IIRC she used some ARGUS equipment on Arrow, and then Barry called her for a plane or something over on The Flash. She's Arrow employed, which means when convenient. 

[kismet]

Nyssa is going to come out publicly (or at least to the bad guys) as OQ's wife to remove the heat from FS, BM & William. She will then sacrifice herself protecting FS which is how she ends up in the grave & FS ends up so angry. She dies at the hands of The Darhks because they also double cross her when she turned to him for helping in dethroning MM.

[Guest]

Nyssa is going to come out publicly (or at least to the bad guys) as OQ's wife to remove the heat from FS, BM & William. She will then sacrifice herself protecting FS which is how she ends up in the grave & FS ends up so angry. She dies at the hands of The Darhks because they also double cross her when she turned to him for helping in dethroning MM.

 

I don't really want anyone dying to protect Felicity because I could really do without everyone hating on her afterwards for being 'the only one who can't take care of herself.' That crap talk has already started now that she's paralyzed. I hope they don't make it worse. 

Edited January 23, 2016 by Guest

[lemotomato]

My favorite speculation so far is that since we see that Oliver and Felicity have broken up, Laurel should seize the opportunity to strengthen her friendship with Oliver, mend his broken heart, and finally bring to the show the iconic Green Arrow/Black Vulture Canary romance!

[dtissagirl]

My favorite speculation so far is that since we see that Oliver and Felicity have broken up, Laurel should seize the opportunity to strengthen her friendship with Oliver, mend his broken heart, and finally bring to the show the iconic Green Arrow/Black Vulture Canary romance!

They'll do it on her father's grave and everything.

[WaitandHope]

I love that Oliver has a secret love child and a secret wife... he's already the perfect politician! If Nyssa's return has anything to do with the mayoral race, I'll be shocked.

Also for those wanting birds of prey, you'll basically have it if Dig's the winner of the dead pool. The show would then be Green Arrow and the Birds of Prey. (And before you shoot me, I'm being sarcastic!). It better not be Diggle!

[AyChihuahua]

My favorite speculation so far is that since we see that Oliver and Felicity have broken up, Laurel should seize the opportunity to strengthen her friendship with Oliver, mend his broken heart, and finally bring to the show the iconic Green Arrow/Black Vulture Canary romance!

If the writers wrote "Oliver and Laurel gaze at each other, remembering the good times and thinking how they could be again..." the result would STILL be:

"Oliver and Laurel glare daggers at each other, Oliver thinking about how annoying Laurel is, while Laurel remembers all the times Ollie the douche cheated on her."

[wonderwall]

My favorite speculation so far is that since we see that Oliver and Felicity have broken up, Laurel should seize the opportunity to strengthen her friendship with Oliver, mend his broken heart, and finally bring to the show the iconic Green Arrow/Black Vulture Canary romance!

This is how it'll happen...

 

Felicity finds out about the kid from Damien's wife during that debate. They have a huge argument and Felicity is obviously the villain in the situation because she ends up breaking up with him. 

 

Enter Laurel who 'embraces' the baby mama and the kid and tells Oliver that he did the right thing keeping it from Felicity and she ends up bonding with the kid. Oliver sees this and starts to have some feelings that were long dormant come back to life. They end up growing closer to one another throughout these episodes. 

 

Then in episode 15 the kid is taken and obviously Felicity doesn't help because she's the WORST and so SELFISH. So who ends up saving the day? Laurel of course. She brings back the kid to Oliver and this officially marks the start of their new relationship. 

 

By the end of the season, Felicity then realizes her mistake in letting Oliver go, and she goes to him. But Oliver doesn't want to get back with her on account of his new feelings for Laurel. She leaves and Oliver then whips out his wallet to look at the photo Laurel gave to him all those years ago. Of course he dug it out from storage because he found he had a sudden attachment to it again. 

 

Then in the season finale, Oliver defeats Darhk, Thea dies, and Oliver/Laurel comfort one another because of the loss they BOTH endured. Oliver losing his sister, Laurel losing her friend. And the season ends with them finally kissing. 

 

//

 

This is the longest sarcastic post I've ever made

[calliope1975]

This is the longest sarcastic post I've ever made

 

In any of these scenarios, the outcome will always be me having free time from 8-9 on Wednesdays!

[lemotomato]

//

 

This is the longest sarcastic post I've ever made

That's the most well-written L/O fanfic I've ever read, seriously.

[wonderwall]

In any of these scenarios, the outcome will always be me having free time from 8-9 on Wednesdays!

Huzzah! The end is nigh! 

[Guest]

Shudders at that O/L scenario. *Shudders* 

 

MY EYES! MY EYES!

Edited January 23, 2016 by Guest

[kismet]

This is how it'll happen...

 

Felicity finds out about the kid from Damien's wife during that debate. They have a huge argument and Felicity is obviously the villain in the situation because she ends up breaking up with him. 

 

Enter Laurel who 'embraces' the baby mama and the kid and tells Oliver that he did the right thing keeping it from Felicity and she ends up bonding with the kid. Oliver sees this and starts to have some feelings that were long dormant come back to life. They end up growing closer to one another throughout these episodes. 

 

Then in episode 15 the kid is taken and obviously Felicity doesn't help because she's the WORST and so SELFISH. So who ends up saving the day? Laurel of course. She brings back the kid to Oliver and this officially marks the start of their new relationship. 

 

By the end of the season, Felicity then realizes her mistake in letting Oliver go, and she goes to him. But Oliver doesn't want to get back with her on account of his new feelings for Laurel. She leaves and Oliver then whips out his wallet to look at the photo Laurel gave to him all those years ago. Of course he dug it out from storage because he found he had a sudden attachment to it again. 

 

Then in the season finale, Oliver defeats Darhk, Thea dies, and Oliver/Laurel comfort one another because of the loss they BOTH endured. Oliver losing his sister, Laurel losing her friend. And the season ends with them finally kissing. 

 

//

 

This is the longest sarcastic post I've ever made

DD did promise a new world & beginning.... That corn might be mighty powerful... Part of me wants your sarcasm to be true cause then I could quit the show.

[wonderwall]

COME ON YOU GUYS, IT'S A BEAUTIFUL THEORY. 

[AyChihuahua]

That's the most well-written L/O fanfic I've ever read, seriously.

I don't know, I kind of like the one in which Laurel eyes Oliver up while they're standing at Felicity's grave.

[Starfish35]

You forgot the part where Diggle dies, thus officially ending OTA forever.

[AyChihuahua]

You forgot the part where Diggle dies, thus officially ending OTA forever.

Lies! ORIGINAL TA is Oliver/Laurel/Tommy!!!!!@#@##@!%%^$

[Starfish35]

Oh right yeah. Oops. :)

[wonderwall]

You forgot the part where Diggle dies, thus officially ending OTA forever.

umm idk man. Laurel/Diggle are now besties. O/D/L create TBTA (The best team arrow)

 

or what @Aychihuahua said lol

Edited January 23, 2016 by wonderwall

[jay741982]

Ugh I'm so mad they still try to give big episodes for Felicity and or Diggle to other people like Nyssa and Laurel. They've had their chances over and over again. I just don't understand why some characters get all these arcs that don't work as opposed to giving characters that do work their time to shine.

Especially since it seems Diggle and Felicity are the two most popular characters and we were promised this is their year yet it seems Thea Laurel and Nyssa fill up the episode descriptions lol. I don't get it

[statsgirl]

This is better than the fanfic thread, or the bitterness thread.

 

I'm not worried about Thea or Laurel or Nyssa getting time.  This show always goes terribly when it spends too much time focused on one person. Any person.

 

I want Felicity's story to quietly percolate in the background, just enough in each episode.

 

I love this idea (by which I mean I hate it) that strength of mind can overcome paralysis. I mean hey, Oliver's strength of mine not only allowed him to move the location of a stab wound (from his chest to his abdomen), it allowed him to survive that stab wound, which was all the way through his body, and being kicked off a mountain top. That mental strength also allowed him suddenly to become a super-duper expert swordsman.

 

Kind of sucks for all the weak-minded people who can't overcome terminal cancer diagnoses and paraplegia, but I guess that's their own fault.

You jest, but that's a real thing, people receiving the diagnosis and wondering what they had done in their lives to cause this to happen.

 

I really hope that Felicity's fix is through science and not magic or meditation.  That would be the most hopeful thing for real people.

Edited January 23, 2016 by statsgirl

[BkWurm1]

 Donna makes the most sense. She has a mothers POV. And she was faced with a husband who wasn't the best father. She probably has some sympathy for her.

Donna makes a good amount of sense to be the one to make BM sympathetic for lying to her son and for wanting to keep Oliver at arms length but I can't see how Donna keeping secrets from Felicity (in order to protect her from the truth) helps justify Oliver agreeing to BM's terms about lying to his significant other.   I thought the person in the know backs up what Oliver did, not the BM. 

 

I guess they could spin it you do what you have to do for your kids but it just doesn't feel like the same thing (protecting kid vs keeping essentially a spouse in the dark)...which I guess fits with the show since Felicity clearly still dumps him. (Or at least hands back the ring and declares they need time apart).

Edited January 23, 2016 by BkWurm1

[Chaser]

In a way, they are backing up the BM. They are giving her demands weight.

 

They have to frame this conversation right. They can frame it as Oliver did the right thing, but at the same time Felicity has every right to be angry at him. They don't have to be mutually exclusive. Donna can say "I hate that you are lying to my daughter but as a mother I understand her need to protect her child. You had to honor her wishes, but also you need to figure out how to tell Felicity the truth now."

 

I don't think they are intentionally trying to make the BM a villain. I think they do want the audience to see her as a sympathetic character.

 

What would be a big mistake is having this person back Oliver and tell him to keep the secret. That would make all the parties look awful.

Edited January 23, 2016 by Chaser

[lemotomato]

I don't know, I kind of like the one in which Laurel eyes Oliver up while they're standing at Felicity's grave.

Wonderwall's fic gets bonus points for getting L/O together without killing off Felicity. Can't have Oliver end up with Laurel just because she's the only woman he knows that's single and he's not related to.

[doesntworkonwood]

 She leaves and Oliver then whips out his wallet to look at the photo Laurel gave to him all those years ago. Of course he dug it out from the rubbish heap because he found he had a sudden attachment to it again. 

FTFY

[tv echo]

Sorry, but I had trouble even reading through wonderwall's fic post.  Count me among those who would drop the show in a heartbeat if that ever happened.

 

Does Lyla still work for ARGUS? Because she's with Waller in the trailer for 411 and I thought she quit because of baby Sara? Did I miss something?

In the EW interview (in the spoilers thead), WM said: "Lyla is going to, at least temporarily, return to A.R.G.U.S., and we’re going to see some big stakes and some big changes happening in that organization as well."

 

So it sounds like both the LOA and ARGUS are going to undergo big changes this season.

Edited January 23, 2016 by tv echo

[Belinea]

I still don't get the DC logic sometimes. They can have 2 Flash but not 2 Deadshots? Who confuses movie and tv? Sure if the actor/actress has a new gig but otherwise it just seems stupid to get rid of Waller just so that nobody confuses the properties...

[kismet]

I don't really want anyone dying to protect Felicity because I could really do without everyone hating on her afterwards for being 'the only one who can't take care of herself.' That crap talk has already started now that she's paralyzed. I hope they don't make it worse.

I don't want it either. I'm just making a hypothesis. Frankly, I think they will mishandle how they represent FS in both the paralysis and BMD. I also think they will waste the return of Nyssa, so I have low expectations with what they will do with the story.

Edited January 23, 2016 by kismet

[Velocity23]

I think the person who dies will do so because they die protecting Thea.

[dtissagirl]

I still don't get the DC logic sometimes. They can have 2 Flash but not 2 Deadshots? Who confuses movie and tv? Sure if the actor/actress has a new gig but otherwise it just seems stupid to get rid of Waller just so that nobody confuses the properties...

It's all about money. DC negotiates rights for each character separately, and if WB Pictures paid for exclusive rights for a character, they get to be the only ones to use it. If they don't enforce exclusivity, then WB TV can have a shot at them too. But ultimately, Pictures >>>>>>>>>>>>[...]>>>>>>>>>>> TV.

[bijoux]

But is it still like that? We're getting Tatsu back somewhere in episode 12 or 13, if I remember Nyssa's appearances correctly, and Katana's in The Suicide Squad. I doubt people would wonder about Tatsu if they decided not to show her again.

[dtissagirl]

Most likely because there's no exclusivity clause on Katana, just like there isn't on Amanda Waller, but there seems to be on Deadshot. It's not about the audience, really, other than arbitrarily deciding which characters get shown to the audience as the ~unique~ version, and which don't. A lot of it is ego and vanity, and the movie side of WB throwing their power around. But it's all money. And which characters will sell most toys.

I don't know for sure, but I think WB TV doesn't get exclusive rights to any character at all. Maaaybe Supergirl if CBS threw some money in the mix. But WB Pictures has both the clout, and the pockets to pick and choose which characters they want on their roster only.

[statsgirl]

I can understand it if Will Smith negotiated an exclusivity clause on Deadshot.  Guy has a lot more power than Viola Davis who plays Amanda Waller, even if he didn't get an Oscar nomination.