Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Guest]

What better way to keep DD busy and away from where he's keeping Ray than giving him GA. And now that I've looked at the pictures properly, Diggle is definitely dressed like one of the HIVE henchmen and not in his usual mask/leather jacket. I wonder if it's going to be a bit like when they went undercover in Merlyn Global, only this time everyone will be involved.

[Chaser]

If it is Lance, than Lance is getting a love interest before Laurel.

 

Also, if it is Lance and Laurel is the one who dies than they really have moved Felicity into Laurel's original position. 

 

A rescue mission and a trap seems quite ambition. 

[Morrigan2575]

What better way to keep DD busy and away from where he's keeping Ray than giving him GA. And now that I've looked at the pictures properly, Diggle is definitely dressed like one of the HIVE henchmen and not in his usual mask/leather jacket. I wonder if it's going to be a bit like when they went undercover in Merlyn Global, only this time everyone will be involved.

That's a really cool theory, I like it. I hope that's what happens

[Guest]

Haha, it probably won't happen but I like the theory too. I guess I'd rather that than Oliver get captured, again.

[Guest]

I wonder if Mama Smoak will find out Oliver is Green Arrow on her visits this season...

[lemotomato]

What better way to keep DD busy and away from where he's keeping Ray than giving him GA. And now that I've looked at the pictures properly, Diggle is definitely dressed like one of the HIVE henchmen and not in his usual mask/leather jacket. I wonder if it's going to be a bit like when they went undercover in Merlyn Global, only this time everyone will be involved.

It's a smart plan. Didn't WM mention in the pre-season interviews that Oliver has to beat DD by outsmarting him rather than just outfighting him?

[AyChihuahua]

It's a smart plan. Didn't WM mention in the pre-season interviews that Oliver has to beat DD by outsmarting him rather than just outfighting him?

Yes, and as soon as we heard that, many of us bid goodbye to poor Star[ling] City.

[wonderwall]

Everyone seems to have something going on other than Laurel. 

 

• Lance has DD and now Donna and people seem to like Quentin now that he's interacting with more of the characters other than Laurel especially after his awesome performance with Stephen in episode 4. 
• Felicity has her father, Oliver, Palmer Tech which will one day be turned into Queen Inc (and since Thea has shown no interest, Laurel isn't a business person, Oliver will be mayor, the only person who will turn PT into QI is Felicity)
• Diggle has his brother storyline and is way more integral to Oliver's journey than any other member of the team bar Felicity
• Thea has her own love interest and her grappling with the effects of the pit which could lead to compelling storytelling

 

I honestly think Laurel will die because: 

 

• She's the only character that has no arc this year, not even any special connections with anyone
• Her storylines have basically been tied up neatly
• The critics are shredding her apart and no one is giving her any love
• In an episode that featured her, people mostly talked about everyone else but her
• Basically no one seems to care about her (and by no one, I meant that as a hyperbole of course some people care)
• And Laurel brings nothing to the show and I feel like the writers recognize that because they rarely ever talk about or are ever excited about Laurel willingly 

[BkWurm1]

It's not that I'm against Quentin and Donna per se, I'm against the awkward dinners and Laurel being all up in the Smoak business and just no. Keep the Lance family away from the Smoaks. Away. Shoo.

 

Honestly, this hilarity is half the reason I want SmoaknLance to happen. 

[EmilyBettFan]

Wonderwall I agree with everything you wrote.

[foreverevolving]

i'll be fine with SmoakLance* only, ONLY!!!!, if Laurel dies, otherwise.. yea keep her away from the Smoak women.

I don't think it's Malcolm. Malcolm only loves two things: himself (and by extension any blood relations-ish) and his plan for word domination. He claimed to love Moira but I don't buy it, not fully.

So yea.. Damian is the only one left that I can by and accept. especially if he has any connections to PapaSmoak.

 

*we really need a different name cause everytime I see i think of either Felicity and Lance or Laurel.. and no to both of those. CaptainVegas? (hi it's late okay!)

Edited November 7, 2015 by foreverevolving

[Starfish35]

Y'all need to stop teasing me with the Laurel dies theories, 'cause I'm starting to get my hopes up. *sob* I want to believe!!!

:)

Edited November 7, 2015 by Starfish35

[BkWurm1]

we really need a different name cause everytime I see i think of either Felicity and Lance or Laurel.. and no to both of those. CaptainVegas? (hi it's late okay!)

 

Well, the moniker that I've seen most often is SmoakenLance or SmoaknLance.  I suppose otherwise we could go with Donna + Lance equals Dance.

[Starfish35]

You could do CaptainSmoak, but I think SmoaknLance has already gotten a foothold.

[kismet]

You know I don't mind SmoaknLance. I think QL deserves some happiness. He made some catastrophic mistakes in s3, but he's not evil or a horrible man like MM.

I also think it will only be an episode or 2 of flirtation & fun. I don't think we're headed towards a canon pairing to end all canon pairings. Honestly MamaSmoak flirts like a champ, so I would love to see straightlace QL try to handle her.

Plus LL will not be in the picture soon so family dinners are not even a worry for me.

Do we think LL will be at the Diggle family dinner this upcoming ep?

[AyChihuahua]

SmoaknDouche?

[BkWurm1]

SmoaknDouche?

You don't forget, do you?  Lol. 

[statsgirl]

Plus LL will not be in the picture soon so family dinners are not even a worry for me.

Odds are heavy that it's Quentin or Laurel in that grave. Either way, there won't be those family dinners.

 

But if Quentin is Donna's new romance, the chances that it's him in the grave just skyrocketed.

[calliope1975]

I guess I'm fine with it being Quentin, since he'll be dead by the end of the season.

 

Yeah, and he can go out with a bang! That was in poor taste. I regret nothing.

 

I wonder if Mama Smoak will find out Oliver is Green Arrow on her visits this season...

 

She is smarter than people believe so I wouldn't be surprised. One more reason I HATE that we will never get Moira/Donna scenes. I want to see them go toe to toe. 

[kismet]

Odds are heavy that it's Quentin or Laurel in that grave. Either way, there won't be those family dinners.

But if Quentin is Donna's new romance, the chances that it's him in the grave just skyrocketed.

Can u explain why him having a romance with DS increases his chances? I don't see how it increases anything.

Unless of course they are gonna take @Calliope1975's suggestion seriously ;). If so, I give them credit thats an interesting way to go, even on ARROW.

Edited November 7, 2015 by kismet

[BkWurm1]

Can u explain why him having a romance with DS increases his chances? I don't see how it increases anything.

 

Well in horror movies, the dude that just had sex is high on the list for getting offed.  ;)

[bijoux]

Do we think LL will be at the Diggle family dinner this upcoming ep?

Doubtful. It even looks like Lyla won't be there since MG answered that she'll be in 4x07. If she was in this episode, I imagine he'd mention that sooner.

[Belinea]

Well, if you want to know what Arrow would look like without Felicity, check out the photo KC posted on her Instagram. Then you can ask yourself would that be a show you'd watch? I wouldn't. 

 

I doubt anyone would cry that much if LL died. That leaves Felicity and Diggle, as well as Quentin. And frankly, I'd hate to lose one of them but I'd rather lose Quentin then Diggle or Felicity. 

[Morrigan2575]

Odds are heavy that it's Quentin or Laurel in that grave. Either way, there won't be those family dinners.

But if Quentin is Donna's new romance, the chances that it's him in the grave just skyrocketed.

My gut reaction was that it improved his "safe" odds but, that's just me.

I doubt anyone would cry that much if LL died. That leaves Felicity and Diggle, as well as Quentin. And frankly, I'd hate to lose one of them but I'd rather lose Quentin then Diggle or Felicity.

That's complete fan bias, and totally untrue. Anyone's death can make you she'd tears if done right.

Edited November 7, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[kismet]

Well in horror movies, the dude that just had sex is high on the list for getting offed. ;)

Thanks! I generally don't watch horror movies because they scare me too much, so the few that I've watched have had no sex. So I didn't know that trend. Fingers crossed the arrow writers don't know it either. If they do somebody get a one night stand for LL too.

[dtissagirl]

TV Tropes page: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DeathBySex

 

It's almost guaranteed to happen in horror movies, but it infects all genres, really.

[kismet]

Guess I just watch a lot of stuff with sex in it that I've never experienced the death by sex trope frequently as much as I've seen sex increase your chances for more scenes.

The only two shows I can remember it vividly happening was Downton Abbey & Reign, but guest stars were sacrificed so it wasn't that bad. And those people went out during the actual act. I wouldn't want that for either QL or MamaSmoak.

[dtissagirl]

It's A LOT more frequent in the nerdy genres [sci-fi/fantasy/horror] than regular drama.

[jay741982]

If Quentin went out a Bang while with Donna What a way to go LOL. Men who have just had sex dying In horror films isn't the only trope. Happens to women too.

My gut reaction was that it improved his "safe" odds but, that's just me.

That's complete fan bias, and totally untrue. Anyone's death can make you she'd tears if done right.

Agreed but I would curl up in a ball bawling my eyes out if Dig or Felicity die. I'd do that plus quit the show if Felicity died.

[apinknightmare]

That's complete fan bias, and totally untrue. Anyone's death can make you she'd tears if done right.

 

Absolutely. 

 

That's the thing I hate about tissue warnings - you're assuming that you're going to do it right. With this show? I'm not so sure that's going to happen, haha. It's like when fic writers write stuff like, "You're not gonna be able to handle what's in this chapter. Get your tissues ready!" 

 

I assure you, I will be able to handle it. And I'd be more likely to cry about it if I didn't know it was coming. 

Edited November 7, 2015 by apinknightmare

[dtissagirl]

If Quentin went out a Bang while with Donna What a way to go LOL. Men who have just had sex dying In horror films isn't the only trope. Happens to women too.

 

It happens about seventeen billion more times to women than men in genre pieces.

 

Donna having sex puts her on my list of possible deaths. She wasn't before.

[Morrigan2575]

It happens about seventeen billion more times to women than men in genre pieces.

That's because horror movies always seem to want to punish women for owning their sexuality. I don't know how long it's been going on but, it really kicked in during the 70s horror genre. Probably something massively historic and caged in sexism/misogyny.

Donna having sex puts her on my list of possible deaths. She wasn't before.

I don't think it's Donna, because of how they're caging the death.

"As seen in the season premiere, we’re going to say good-bye to a very prominent character on the show. It’s going to be a tearjerker at the end."

Donna, Malcolm, flashback characters aren't significant enough. It should be a series regular, IMO. Malcom is a series regular but not really prominent in S4 although that could change but, I don't consider Donna prominent (even though I adore her).

Edited November 7, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[tangerine95]

I don't think a romance between Donna and Lance makes their chances of dying higher.IMO Donna isn't an option for the big death this season because they have said it will be a prominent character and I doubt they would go through all this hype to kill of a guest star.I think her having a relationship with Lance as much as I hate the idea actually gets her a shot at being in more episodes and having a storyline outside of Felicity.

As for Lance dying,he is still a strong option for the grave but I think the more storyline they give him it lowers his chances of dying.A romance with Mama Smoak is a whole new storyline depending on how long it lasts and that its not just a fling while she's there for 2 episodes.

They're still not giving Laurel any kind of storyline outside of Sara while other characters pretty much got their season long storylines set up or at least teased in interviews.That plus the way they are writting her this season makes me think her chances of dying are highter then Lance's right now.

[HighwayFlower]

All logic from an outside perspective screams Laurel, "But Comics" and the fact that the show seems to have blinders on where she is concerned, still makes me think it's Detective Lance.

[tarotx]

Though I don't think it is Donna, it could be her. TPTB like to talk up storylines and give it more power than they deserve sometines. Donna was a praised guest star by fans and the media. She is already scheduled for 3 episodes this season.

[tv echo]

Why couldn't it be Donna dating her ex - Felicity's father?  WM said "she’s going to be having a romantic relationship with somebody on the show", but she didn't say that he was somebody currently on the show.  Or it could be flashbacks.

 

Felicity's father could enter the show and start dating Donna.  Then we find out later that he has a connection to HIVE and was just using Donna.

Edited November 7, 2015 by tv echo

[AyChihuahua]

I think we haven't heard about Laurel's storyline in 4b BECAUSE it's Lance.  Her storyline, repetitive and boring as it may be, will be her grieving/coming to terms with his death, maybe having conflict with other team members because of it, and then honoring him.  

[Starfish35]

I thought that, but if the death doesn't happen until near the end of the season, around 419-420, then that leaves a significant chunk of season between when Sara leaves and Quentin (presumably) dies that Laurel has no story that we know of.

I mean, they talked about Laurel having conflict between her day job and her vigilante duties, but that sounds like a C storyline at best.

Edited November 7, 2015 by Starfish35

[tangerine95]

I thought about Lance dying being her storyline but that's seriously way too repetitive even for these writers.At least with Sara dying she got to be BC no matter how horrible the arc was.I don't see what Lance dying would do for the character.She wouldn't even get the revenge on who kills him storyline since we already know that goes to Oliver and if DD would be the one to kill him it also means Diggle is the second in line to want to take him down.Doesn't leave much room for LL there.

I'm not sure about them not lying when they say the death is closer to the end of the season.At first they couldn't tell us when it happens because its a spoiler and now they can say its the end of the season?Especially if they want people to think its Felicity and she gets hurt or kidnapped in the midseason,we would know she's not the death because they said those episodes will only have hints about who dies.Its like eliminating Felicity from the list of grave options when there's still half a season to go before it happens.It doesn't make sense to me because people thinking it could be Felicity is what's giving them the most buzz,I would think they will milk that until the episode the death happens.

[bethy]

I think we haven't heard about Laurel's storyline in 4b BECAUSE it's Lance.  Her storyline, repetitive and boring as it may be, will be her grieving/coming to terms with his death, maybe having conflict with other team members because of it, and then honoring him.  

 

Will she start wearing a police uniform or suit and hanging out at the police station? That would at least get her out of the Lair.

[tv echo]

Laurel will probably be promoted to DA.  I'm assuming all the other ADAs were killed last season because I haven't seen any other ADA around, and Laurel was the only ADA with the (now deceased) DA in 402.

 

Then she finds out her father has been working with DD and that will create another conflict for her as DA (not that she seems to have had any conflict being an ADA and vigilante).

Edited November 7, 2015 by tv echo

[kismet]

Why couldn't it be Donna dating her ex - Felicity's father? WM said "she’s going to be having a romantic relationship with somebody on the show", but she didn't say that he was somebody currently on the show. Or it could be flashbacks.

Felicity's father could enter the show and start dating Donna. Then we find out later that he has a connection to HIVE and was just using Donna.

Read that quickly and thought you meant RP. And I was ew NO, but then I thought u never know with this show. And MamaSmoak does seem like she could have a cougar side.

But I think ur onto something, it could be fb or it could be undercover HIVE. Only problem is they haven't cast or annouced a casting of someone that could be romantic interest for MamaSmoak. Still think QL, MM or DD are more likely options.

Edited November 7, 2015 by kismet

[bijoux]

I mean, they talked about Laurel having conflict between her day job and her vigilante duties, but that sounds like a C storyline at best.

C storyline sounds right for Larel.

  

Read that quickly and thought you meant RP. And I was ew NO, but then I thought u never know with this show. And MamaSmoak does seem like she could have a cougar side.

To be honest, Alex crossed my mind as far as potential candidates go. Thea freaks him out or pushes him away when the blood lust kicks back in so he seeks solace in Donna's bosom.

[Happy Harpy]

All logic from an outside perspective screams Laurel, "But Comics" and the fact that the show seems to have blinders on where she is concerned, still makes me think it's Detective Lance.

I think that you're right. Unfortunately. Especially if they recycle. Back in S1 there were rumors of a major death during the finale. Many thought that Laurel was the logical option but wouldn't be the one to bite it...they were right (those glorious nine seconds when I thought they actually did it...sigh). IIRC, Lance was a good candidate back then, Tommy was a medium to long shot -but the possibility of a Spiderman-like triangle after Oliver killed Malcolm gave him a plot armor. (Again, my memory can fail me.)

This time again, Laurel is the most logical option imo (I 100% agree with everything stated above) and I kind of hope that the "polarizing" reaction to her storyline of late will be the proverbial nail in the coffin, but it seems that I can't have nice things. So...

Lance is the most obvious option. Nevertheless, I still think that the writers are going to pull Roy out of their hats somewhere, especially with the reveal being pushed back after the midseason finale (Oh, joy. Not) because it gives them more time to re-introduce the character for a small arc.

Edited November 7, 2015 by Happy Harpy

[apinknightmare]

 

Nevertheless, I still think that the writers are going to pull Roy out of their hats somewhere, especially with the reveal being pushed back after the midseason finale (Oh, joy. Not) because it gives them more time to re-introduce the character for a small arc.

 

I don't think the reveal was pushed back - I don't think it was ever going to be a mid-season thing. They placed it 6 months in the future for a reason, so I'm pretty sure it's always been planned for April-ish.

[Morrigan2575]

Yeah, they straight up told us the death date, 6 months from October "in show" time. Now they could do time jumps post Flarrow but both Arrow and Flash seem to stick to Real Time (more or less). So the death was always intended to be in April and most likely 419 or 420

[Chaser]

The sooner the better. 

 

I wish they would surprise us and put it mid-season, but they are going to drag out the suspense. 

[apinknightmare]

The sooner the better. 

 

I wish they would surprise us and put it mid-season, but they are going to drag out the suspense. 

 

MG said in an interview the other day (I think it was for the Constantine ep) that the death was "toward the end of the season," so I don't think there's any chance of them moving it. 

[statsgirl]

From Wendy Mericle's remarks, it seems like they will pull back the camera at the gravesite to let us see someone else there that we can take off the list.

 

I have to admit, it's a clever idea to get us guessing.

 

 

Back in S1 there were rumors of a major death during the finale. Many thought that Laurel was the logical option but wouldn't be the one to bite it...they were right (those glorious nine seconds when I thought they actually did it...sigh). IIRC, Lance was a good candidate back then, Tommy was a medium to long shot -but the possibility of a Spiderman-like triangle after Oliver killed Malcolm gave him a plot armor. (Again, my memory can fail me.)

This time again, Laurel is the most logical option imo (I 100% agree with everything stated above) and I kind of hope that the "polarizing" reaction to her storyline of late will be the proverbial nail in the coffin, but it seems that I can't have nice things.

 

 

At the end of season 1, Laurel still had lots of potential as a character, not to mention becoming the Black Canary.  I think there is still some storyline for her in terms of being an ADA and a vigilante but it seems like they don't want to write for her other than Big! Things! twice a year.

 

And there is still the love for the Black Canary that the show claims in spite of how badly they treat her. 

 

It would be weird right now to have Laurel when Sara has just come back to life, especially given that Sara had to die in order for Laurel to become the Black Canary.  But maybe April is far enough off that it wouldn't be so strange.

 

Can u explain why him having a romance with DS increases his chances? I don't see how it increases anything.

On this show, any time a character starts getting a big story arc, chances are good it's a deathwatch one.  And Quentin is not only getting redeemed and finally forging a good relationship with Oliver, he may be getting a love life too.  The death bell tolls.

 

Lots of shows kill characters for angst.  Shonda Rhimes just killed McDreamy, part of the iconic couple, because they've finally resolved all their differences and there wasn't more story to tell.  NCIS:NO the guy just got with his childhood sweetheart and everything was great and the show killed her off for the angst.

 

It could be Donna in the grave.  And while I doubt the writers would care that that would leave Oliver and Felicity's potential kids without any grandparents, Donna is a fun character they can use in future.

 

Why couldn't it be Donna dating her ex - Felicity's father?  WM said "she’s going to be having a romantic relationship with somebody on the show", but she didn't say that he was somebody currently on the show.  Or it could be flashbacks.

He's rich, but he's also evil.  I don't want to see her dating him in the present, and there's no real point in the flashbacks.  And while Charlotte Ross looks fabulous, I have my doubts that she could pass for 20 in the flashbacks.

[AyChihuahua]

I basically just really don't want to get my hopes up that it's Laurel.  I frankly don't think they have the [smart] balls to do that.  (I added smart because it would also take balls to kill Felicity or Digg, but it'd be stupid, for many reasons.)