Spoiler Discussion Thread

[kismet]

It does the exact opposite of Felicity. She would inspire Oliver to hood up to become a killer and start him on that dark path. 

Unless that's the twist... Poppy's death triggers him to start a dark path. FS helps pull him back to the light and made him a hero.

 

PS - I am just pissed that she is not named Poppy. She will forever be Poppy, I don't care what they call her on the show. :)

[tarotx]

Felicity could clean up the audio but she would have to spend hours listening to Ray's Angst. I can see why she would Delegate it. 

 

And whatever happens with Poppy, Oliver has already chosen to put on the hood and try and take out the bad of Coast City so that was his own thing. His Father's message in The Return was a key thing and so was Oliver's own reactions to Akio's death and killing General Shrieve. So far Shado was more a Taiana character than Poppy imo.

 

And I doubt Poppy lasts past this season and Oliver has a whole other year until he returns to Starling.

Edited November 5, 2015 by tarotx

[BkWurm1]

So now armed with Poppy's official alias (I agree, her name to me will always be Poppy) I looked up her history.  Some of the story line is very familiar.

 

Taiana meets a man in the opium fields, and tells him what is happening on the
island. She later tends to him when he gets a compound fracture in his arm,
giving him some opium to help the pain.

 

Some of it though is hard to believe they'd find a way to fit in.

 

When she and her husband discover she is pregnant her husband promises to do whatever it takes to get her and the baby off the island. He attempts to steal a patrol boat but is captured by China White's men, and is slowly eaten away by rats in a cage, his screams able to heard in the slaves living quarters.

 

 

If she's already pregnant though and has just lost her husband, then she wouldn't be likely to fall IN LOVE with Oliver even if they hooked up.  So that would at least take that off the table. 

 

Makes me fear the kind of parallel they might have in mind.  The only thing worse than surprise kid for me is the pregnancy storyline when you know it's just going to end in a miscarriage storyline since no baby would be allowed to actually show up on the show. (And Sara doesn't count because she has a mommy that can be off screen)
 

Edited November 5, 2015 by BkWurm1

[Guest]

I don't know anything about the comics so the flashbacks being like Year One means nothing to me. But I hope they don't lessen Felicity's importance in Oliver's journey to hero by making this FB love interest like the 'Faux Felicity' before our Felicity, if that makes sense. That would suck. 

 

I'm hoping they stick to their usual pattern of picking and choosing things from the comics rather than copy it exactly.

[BkWurm1]

I don't know anything about the comics so the flashbacks being like Year One means nothing to me. But I hope they don't lessen Felicity's importance in Oliver's journey to hero by making this FB love interest like the 'Faux Felicity' before our Felicity, if that makes sense. That would suck. 

 

So far I don't think we have to worry about that.

[looptab]

About Felicity being dumbed down, the only people happy about it are the reviewers at a certain site, that can believe without a problem that Lazarus Pits and metahumans exists, but find Felicity's abilities and competence a step too far *rolls eyes*

[kismet]

I wonder if they will parallel Poppy to BabyMama. Maybe they each have a miscarriage, but OQ is lead to believe that he is the father of surprise kid. However, on the island, Poppy & OQ bond over losing unborn babies.

[bijoux]

I'm still going with he's being nicer to Laurel because the city depends on him to keep them safe from that lunatic. Watching her will be a 24 hour job. Felicity should probably put a tracker on her so they can monitor her at all times to prevent her from doing something stupid. 

 

Well, that's a lot to expect of them.  Laurel's stupid actions - the biggest foil on this show. But they should definitely put a tracker on her. In fact, I think the whole team should have trackers, in fact. Oliver's put one on himself in the past. I think it was revealed in Unfinished Business, when Dig finds him in the asylum in time to help him and tells him he'll never make fun of him for doing that again. Hopefully he still has one for the next episode.

 

Ok, am I crazy, or in that promo for next episode, did I see Sara suited up as Black Canary? I know there's been photos of her suited up with Thea and Laurel, but man is it good to have a smile on my face, seeing her in her full attire once more! 

 

You're not crazy, she's in the promo with Dig.

 

Wee, Oliver's together with Felicity dealing with Ray's disappearance. In a vase! Love it all around.

[Ariah]

Speculation / wild thought:

 

With the recent episode reminding us heavily of Oliver/Laurel's "friendship" and "connection", maybe the writers are testing waters how will the audience react to a possible rekindling of their romance? (I can't believe I typed it)

 

As the writers state they don't know who is in the grave (yeah right - but it actually works with these writers, "chaos driven development" or "no-plan is the best plan"), perhaps they're doing a little test to see if the audience would like Oliver/Laurel together again IF they kill Felicity.

 

My answer is - no. This particular audience of one (meaning: me) will not like this and will cross out Arrow from my list.

[Chaser]

They did the same with Thea, Lance and Diggle. Recap and Repair. 

 

Laurel landed with a thud in the friendzone tonight. I personally don't see anything in the narrative to suggest a return to Oliver and Laurel.

[looptab]

Looks like Felicity's borrowed some energy drinks from Curtis. Love the look on Oliver's face, haha.

What does she say before intercepted something something?

[bijoux]

Looks like Felicity's borrowed some energy drinks from Curtis. Love the look on Oliver's face, haha.

What does she say before intercepted something something?

He sent this message that was intercepted by whoever's holding him captive.

[looptab]

He sent this message that was intercepted by whoever's holding him captive.

Thank you. I'm deaf in the morning :)

Also, you know shit is happening when Felicity's hair is less than perfect. LOL

[bijoux]

Thank you. I'm deaf in the morning :)

Also, you know shit is happening when Felicity's hair is less than perfect. LOL

Felicity Smoak OHSHT hair index. :) I really like how the wisps around her face look though.

 

Going by the Canadian promo I presume DD is only playing with Ray in order to draw out the Green Arrow. I approve.

Edited November 5, 2015 by bijoux

[looptab]

Felicity Smoak OHSHT hair index. :) I really like how the wisps around her face look though.

 

 

Yeah, that's what I had in mind, hahah :)

 

From the shot of Oliver upside-down (don't know if it's his doing or not) and the kiss, they're channeling Spiderman in 406. Not complaining :)

[Velocity23]

Australian promo

https://twitter.com/DamnTurtle1/status/662200788362510336

[lemotomato]

From the Australian promo, it looks like the tandem skydive with Curtis Holt that was hinted in one of the BTS pics happens in 406? Do they go rescue the rest of the team?

[bijoux]

Is this the episode where Felicity and Curtis go out in the field? To save GA? Dig, baby, you're finally showing Felicity some love. It's so good.

[Morrigan2575]

They did the same with Thea, Lance and Diggle. Recap and Repair.

Laurel landed with a thud in the friendzone tonight. I personally don't see anything in the narrative to suggest a return to Oliver and Laurel.

This seems to get overlooked a lot but Oliver is repairing all of his friendships/relationships in S4. I'm guessing this has a triple purpose part of NuOliver's healthy headspace, part of the S4 Family theme and potentially part of the S4 Death Plot.

I think the repair of The BrOTP was a welcomed exchange so no one read into it as anything other than yay Oliver/Diggle are friends again

The stuff with think Thea also largely went unnoticed because she's Oliver's sister...makes sense.

The stuff with Lance sent up red flags...warning Lance is the one in the grave!

The stuff with Laurel sent up similar warnings...warning return to O/L

I really don't think either the Lance or Laurel red flags are true so far. I think they're putting all the pieces in play for who could be in the grave. They're repairing Oliver's relationships and giving him a healthy mindset because they don't want to do the guilt driven, self loathing, suicidal stuff all over again with the latest death.

I still think it's Laurel or Lance in that grave. If they can redeem Laurel with 405 (and going by the initial review and fan reaction) that's a no; then Lance will end up in the grave. If they can't save LL in the last/latest attempt then she's in the grave.

Personally I think they have a better chance with Lance then Laurel. I know people here hate Lance (I don't) but PB is a much better actor than KC so he can sell a Lance redemption. Plus they actually gave Lance an out, he signed up with DD to protect Laurel. Laurel's entire motivation for 403-405 has been selfish, careless, stupid and KCs acting choices left people thinking Laurel was deranged. I think the EPs may have wanted or expected people to view Laurel as a loving sister that was doing the same thing as Oliver did when he saved Thea but it's a false equivalence and no one is buying it (not the media or fans).

 

ETA: I totally overlooked it because they're relationship has been very strong this season but as DancingNancy pointed out in another thread, 401 was about Oliver/Felicity's relationship mending.  Granted they didn't have some huge fight or breakup but there was stuff that needed to be cleared up and they moved in a stronger/healthier direction after everything was discussed.

 

So yeah, this is totally part of the NuOliver/Family theme with a dash of future death setup on the side.  At this point anyone but Malcolm could be in that grave as Oliver has mended all his fences and is in a much healthier mindset. 

Edited November 5, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[kismet]

This seems to get overlooked a lot but Oliver is repairing all of his friendships/relationships in S4. I'm guessing this has a triple purpose part of NuOliver's healthy headspace, part of the S4 Family theme and potentially part of the S4 Death Plot.

I think the repair of The BrOTP was a welcomed exchange so no one read into it as anything other than yay Oliver/Diggle are friends again

The stuff with think Thea also largely went unnoticed because she's Oliver's sister...makes sense.

The stuff with Lance sent up red flags...warning Lance is the one in the grave!

The stuff with Laurel sent up similar warnings...warning return to O/L

I really don't think either the Lance or Laurel red flags are true so far. I think they're putting all the pieces in play for who could be in the grave. They're repairing Oliver's relationships and giving him a healthy mindset because they don't want to do the guilt driven, self loathing, suicidal stuff all over again with the latest death.

I still think it's Laurel or Lance in that grave. If they can redeem Laurel with 405 (and going by the initial review and fan reaction) that's a no; then Lance will end up in the grave. If they can't save LL in the last/latest attempt then she's in the grave.

Personally I think they have a better chance with Lance then Laurel. I know people here hate Lance (I don't) but PB is a much better actor than KC so he can sell a Lance redemption. Plus they actually gave Lance an out, he signed up with DD to protect Laurel. Laurel's entire motivation for 403-405 has been selfish, careless, stupid and KCs acting choices left people thinking Laurel was deranged. I think the EPs may have wanted or expected people to view Laurel as a loving sister that was doing the same thing as Oliver did when he saved Thea but it's a false equivalence and no one is buying it (not the media or fans)

DITTO.

[jay741982]

Maybe the EPs will put us out of our misery early, and have Felicity join Oliver at the gravesite in a flashforward scene in 410.

That would be awesome but then we would have to worry about Dig :(

[bijoux]

Here's what I want to know about rescuing Ray. Who pockets him to get him to Felicity and Curtis so they can get him back to his original size?

[tangerine95]

I also think its either Lance or Laurel in the grave except I think they already decided who it is and aren't wating for a fan reaction.I don't think this episode was supposed to redeem Laurel for what she did.They actually never had people say its okay or right.We had Oliver accepting that the damage is done and doing whatever he can to help Sara but he didn't excuse Laurel actions.They glossed over it by the end and didn't even resolve any of the issues Laurel and Oliver have which is better IMO since doing that right would take a lot of time and focus I'm glad Laurel isn't getting.Oliver just looked like he was done fighting with Laurel because its not worth it to him and he has been trying to do things differently.

I think if they wanted Laurel to be liked they wouldn't have chosen to bring Sara back the way they did or they would have at least had her solve the problem and look like the hero in bringing her back.Instead they had Oliver save the day while Laurel came off looking like a selfish brat.

My main reason for thinking its Laurel is the fact that she has nothing left to do and is getting closure on all sides.Even in the last interviews she got no storyline.Wendy when asked about the Lance family after Sara talked about Lance and his DD storyline and Laurel reacting to it at some point.That's not a storyline for Laurel,its for Lance.They also made her BC with no more learning curve left,I think its highly unlikely she will get her own villains or team so I have no idea what they would do with her other than write her out.

Lance dying is an easy,obvious choice so they can always chicken out and kill him instead.I kinda get the feeling they're setting him up to be the police connection close to the team after they redeem him this season.The way 4.04 made it look like it was Lance was as obvious as Felicity in 4.01 so idk if they would want to be that obvious with the death.

[Genki]

Most of the promos for next week is making me go "Ugh!! Ray! >_<"

[tv echo]

Hopes aside, I still don't think it's Laurel in the grave because she's the Black Canary and I can't see DC Comics approving that.

 

Having just watched those promos for next week, I have to say that watching Sara and Laurel side-by-side in similar BC costumes just highlights the SWF aspect of Laurel's becoming BC - it also looks like they're cosplayers at a comic-con.

Edited November 5, 2015 by tv echo

[Guest]

How many more episodes must we endure before Arrow is released from this LoT hostage situation? 406 is saving Ray and I don't think 407 is about setting up Legends but then we have the actual crossover in 408, right? So 3 more episodes? UGH. Can't come soon enough. Done dot com.

[Sakura12]

When does Sara leave for LoT so I don't have to see Laurel every week? 

[tarotx]

I'm sure Sara is in the Crossover-It's kind of the LOT Backdoor Pilot. And then after that Sara should be gone.

[Velocity23]

https://twitter.com/LaOlicity/status/662280743846940672

Asia promo

So i see Laurel didnt say anything to Sara about the Bloodlust.

[Cerulean Blue]

Hopes aside, I still don't think it's Laurel in the grave because she's the Black Canary and I can't see DC Comics approving that.

I have very little knowledge of the comics (not only for DC Comics, but just in general), but would having one version of one character dying be that big of a deal? I feel like I've heard that really major superheroes have died in the comics (Batman and/or Superman, maybe? I tried googling, but apparently all the different versions of comics means no one can agree if someone ever really died). Killing off Laurel on Arrow doesn't mean Black Canary is dead and gone, it just means that Arrow's version of Laurel's version of Black Canary is gone. 

 

A new Black Canary could always appear in the Flarrow-verse now that Flash has opened up the possibility of alternate universes. I doubt they'd go this route for Arrow, but the possibility exists for brining a non-Laurel version of the character back on one of the shows if DC really wanted Black Canary to remain part of the TV-verse. 

 

Alternately -- and this is probably just me showing how I don't understand how any of this actually works from a creative property standpoint or whatever -- could it be possible that killing off Laurel/BC in Arrow might be okay so that they can use Black Canary in other properties? I feel like I remember hearing that's why killed Arrow's Deadshot, because he was going to be in the DC Movie-verse now. From my understanding, non-Laurel versions of BC are pretty popular; I can't imagine DC comics love that the character is, to put it nicely, so divisive in her LL/Arrow incarnation. Perhaps they want to use Black Canary in another property where the character can be more successful.

 

Maybe this is all wishful thinking on my part because I really want the grave to be Laurel's, but I just don't understand why the fact that she's currently Black Canary means she's safe. 

[Sakura12]

I wonder who's idea it was to take Sara out in the field when they know her bloodlust is worse than Thea's?

 

Although I do like that Sara's adding wrestling moves to her skill set. 

Edited November 5, 2015 by Sakura12

[Morrigan2575]

I have very little knowledge of the comics (not only for DC Comics, but just in general), but would having one version of one character dying be that big of a deal? I feel like I've heard that really major superheroes have died in the comics (Batman and/or Superman, maybe? I tried googling, but apparently all the different versions of comics means no one can agree if someone ever really died). Killing off Laurel on Arrow doesn't mean Black Canary is dead and gone, it just means that Arrow's version of Laurel's version of Black Canary is gone.

 

 

Considering that DC Comics erased Dinah Laurel Lance from continuity and replaced her with OG Black Canary (Dinah Drake Lance) and basically got rid of the whole split Mother/Daughter thing...no, I don't think DC Comics would object.  However, I neither work for DC nor Know anyone that works for DC.  So this is just MY opinion.

Edited November 5, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[apinknightmare]

I wonder who's idea it was to take Sara out in the field when they know her bloodlust is worse than Thea's?

Although I do like that Sara's adding wrestling moves to her skill set.

Not only send her out in the field generally speaking, but to send her out in the field WITH Thea, who...she wants to kill? Unless somehow that part of it magically goes away for her, even though it didn't for Thea?

[Chaser]

Well I'm just going to guess Laurel

[Morrigan2575]

Not only send her out in the field generally speaking, but to send her out in the field WITH Thea, who...she wants to kill? Unless somehow that part of it magically goes away for her, even though it didn't for Thea?

I don't think it does, since we know the LP causes issues with the girls' part of the rescue mission.  My guess is Sara loses control and goes for the kill and maybe even goes after Thea.  This will be what prompts Sara to leave town, so that she's constantly not trying to kill Thea.

 

Well I'm just going to guess Laurel

 

Well, that would be an easy guess.

 

ETA: I just have to add, it seriously fucking annoys me that these idiots keep using their real names in front of people. 

Edited November 5, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[Sakura12]

It was more of a rhetorical question. We all know it was Laurel. 

 

Thea: "Why aren't we telling Sara about the Pit Bloodlust?"
Laurel: "Because I don't want to see a judgmental look on Oliver's face. And maybe if we don't tell her, it won't happen"

 

However it looks like Thea is finally ignoring the lunatic and tells Sara about it. In preview we can hear Sara say "Thea told me about the pit". 

[bethy]

And Sara will be fine in a couple of days.

 

Glad that Thea has maybe learned from the earlier dumb-assery. Though it looks like - again - Laurel has not.

[apinknightmare]

I'm really curious about the liviing sitch now. Is Sara living in Lance's hovel? Is she taking the couch at Laurel's? Does Thea sleep with 50 padlocks and a dresser in front of the door? And something large and heavy covering her window, since that seems to be new Sara's preferred alternative entrance?

[bijoux]

I don't think it does, since we know the LP causes issues with the girls' part of the rescue mission.  My guess is Sara loses control and goes for the kill and maybe even goes after Thea.  

It would certainly amuse me if this happened and left he bad guys just staring at them. What's going on?

I want Thea to move out of Laurel's so badly that I'm ready for Felicity to be missing for a week or two just so that she goes to the loft to keep an eye on Oliver.

[looptab]

Thea has also really nice hair. Just more Thea, more away-from-Laurel Thea.

[Sakura12]

In season 2 I remember her crashing through windows a lot and climbing and swinging down from pipes to exit and enter the Clocktower. 

 

Sara's only fear: doors. 

[dtissagirl]

What I really need is for Sara to have an identical Canary uniform stashed somewhere that hasn't been 1. buried underground for a year with a rotting corpse and 2. hasn't been dipped in muddy waters infested with old dude's butt bacteria.

[SmallScreenDiva]

Looks like she does have an identical uniform stashed away somewhere. Isn't that what she's wearing in the promos?

[WaitandHope]

All the previews have got me EXCITED!  I know there is the Ray-ness of it all, but as long as they keep it about Felicity's reaction to Ray and Oliver's reaction to Felicity's reaction, I think this will be a really good episode.  It seems to have it all -- Olicity goodness and angst, Birds of Prey elements, Dig being a strategic badass, DD being menacing, etc. Who are the writers of the 4x6 again?  I'm probably setting myself up for disappointment, so I need some tempered cynicism from all of you. 

[Morrigan2575]

Interesting.  According to THR interview with WM Sara no longer has the desire to kill Thea, now that she has her soul back.  She knows there's a line there?  However, she's going to experience the same bloodlust as Thea just more intensely.  Guess they'll just have Sara leave for LoT because she needs a fresh start or a purpose in life beyond SC?

[tarotx]

I think it will be more Sara knows Thea didn't kill her so can control herself from going after Thea. But as Sara is fighting, the Bloodlust is so powerful that she won't be able to control going all psycho killer on whoever she is fighting. And the bloodlust will never be satisfied because she can't kill Thea. 

[looptab]

So, will Oliver think that Felicity's losing it? Why would Dig need to tell him She's one of the most intelligent people on the planet, otherwise?

[Guest]

I have to admit I'm dreading this Ray rescue crap. Felicity is obviously out in the field to save him. Ugh. I hope they don't get some big reunion hug or whatever. No thank you. Not today, Satan. 

[Sakura12]

I get that Sara wouldn't want to kill Thea, but I at least thought she'd be fighting that need. Not that she was cured. These writers don't seem to know what organic story telling is. Having Sara leave to protect Thea makes perfect sense. I suppose their ways leaves an option for Sara to come back to Arrow (when they kill off Laurel *in my dreams they do). 

[Carrie Ann]

EBR has been notably absent from BTS pics posted this week (except the old one posted by KC) (unless I missed some?), wasn't at the hospital shoot, and has been live-tweeting movies during what I would consider shooting hours. I'm not saying Felicity was definitely kidnapped, but...she was, right?

Edited November 5, 2015 by Carrie Ann