Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Starfish35]

Well for one, Coast City seems to have been name-dropped quite a lot. And MG said in one of the interviews something about the flashbacks surprising people, and I'm sure he knows a lot of people are expecting Bratva - he even posted a question about it on his Tumblr I think (without answering it). There's also the mention of the flashbacks having to do with Oliver running into magic. Which could be possible in Bratva I guess, but might also have to do with something he ran into in Coast City.

I don't know. Maybe we'll still see Bratva. It seems like my predictions usually turn out wrong. :) It just seems like everyone's expecting Bratva and I think it might be something no-one's expecting.

Edited July 13, 2015 by Starfish35

[Sunshine]

I wonder if Oliver goes to Coast City and learns to fly at Ferris Air before ending up in Russia? Old friend they run into Anatoly? Amanda Waller? (LOL), Carol Ferris? Hal Jordan? McKenna Hall?

 

WM said in one of the interviews that the first time they have a "non-island" flashback would be episode 8. This is the crossover episode I think. Oliver FB to LOT rooftop scene in jailed Arrow suit? Sara resurrection scene?  It also makes me wonder if the Diggle/Andy HIVE connection happens in 4B even if DD shows up in 4.01.

Edited July 13, 2015 by Sunshine

[AyChihuahua]

I've said this before, but they could finesse the Bratva captain thing by simply having Anatoly make him a captain because he saved his life on the Amazo. He doesn't necessarily have to do a lot of terrible stuff for the Bratva or save Anatoly again or anything. They already bonded and Anatoly already knows he'd be dead without Oliver, so if he meets up with Oliver again they could have him just make Oliver a captain as a thank you. (Of course, he still has to learn Russian, but I've totally given up on him having somehow learned Mandarin well enough to pass as a native speaker to native speakers, so whatevs, maybe Anatoly gets him one of those Rosetta stone programs.) I definitely think there will be more to the Bratva thing, but it doesn't have to take up an entire season of flashbacks of him earning his place.

Edited July 13, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[quarks]

With the caveat that I do not think this was originally planned in the first season, I'm wondering if the introduction of magic this season is going to let them say that at some point in the next two years, Oliver will literally gain fluency in Mandarin and Russian (and possibly Spanish, although he could easily have picked up Spanish before landing on the island) through "magic."

[Chaser]

Magic on Arrow.

 

I don't wike it. I don't wike it.

[AyChihuahua]

With the caveat that I do not think this was originally planned in the first season, I'm wondering if the introduction of magic this season is going to let them say that at some point in the next two years, Oliver will literally gain fluency in Mandarin and Russian (and possibly Spanish, although he could easily have picked up Spanish before landing on the island) through "magic."

I frigging love it. It's nuts and I love it. Access to magic and he goes for multilingualism!

[SmallScreenDiva]

With the caveat that I do not think this was originally planned in the first season, I'm wondering if the introduction of magic this season is going to let them say that at some point in the next two years, Oliver will literally gain fluency in Mandarin and Russian (and possibly Spanish, although he could easily have picked up Spanish before landing on the island) through "magic."

 

LOL! Well, they gotta explain those skills somehow. Oliver certainly didn't learn to speak Mandarin like a native during his time in Hong Kong.

Edited July 13, 2015 by SmallScreenDiva

[foreverevolving]

Oh shit.. No i can't stop thinking what if because of Magic he lands in a Earth-2 like world (I mean Flash is bringing Jay Garriack in and he is coming from Earth-2 i believe) and spends several years there, and than is able to return - via magic- to a specific time and location.. this will allow the writers to say... well yea for his family and friends he was away for 5 years, but to Oliver it was more than that... all in the- likely- case that the show will go beyond 5 years...

 

someone hit me with a baseball bat, I think i lost my mind.

[kismet]

Coast City again.

I'm starting to think there will be no Bratva this year, guys.

I feel like the ship might have sailed with a little bit of photoshop. :(

 

As disappointed as I am to not get Bratva, I want it done well & it seems like s4 might be spending a lot of time setting up LoT. So in that regard I am ok with them pushing Bratva to late s4 or even s5, so as not to pretzel or ruin the story potential to fulfill some plot requirements.

 

If it is Coast City in FB, I just hope its more on par with s1/2 FB and not as disjointed & poorly linked to the story as s3 was. I want to enjoy the FB again and not just so I can admire what the wig department can come up with.

[BkWurm1]

Oh shit.. No i can't stop thinking what if because of Magic he lands in a Earth-2 like world (I mean Flash is bringing Jay Garriack in and he is coming from Earth-2 i believe) and spends several years there, and than is able to return - via magic- to a specific time and location.. this will allow the writers to say... well yea for his family and friends he was away for 5 years, but to Oliver it was more than that... all in the- likely- case that the show will go beyond 5 years...

 

someone hit me with a baseball bat, I think i lost my mind.

You are not the only one whose mind is going there.  At this point there are a million explanations and possibilities for everything.  If they sent him off to a AU or even play with Time Travel, he could easily even have been gone longer than the five years we know about. 

[EmeraldArcher]

I'm not sure why they think magic is something new on Arrow.

We've seen Yao Fei's magical herbs for three seasons now!

Honestly, I don't think I'll like magic on the show. The LPs are already pushing it.

[catrox14]

I'd rather he have been implanted with a language chip than magic. 

[calliope1975]

I'm unsure how I feel about magic. On one hand, I like that Arrow is grounded in some sort of realism. On the other hand, I wrote a whole story in my head once with Zantanna showing up causing problems for Team Arrow. I guess it's like metas for me - it works in small doses, but I don't want it taking over the show.

 

I'm wondering about the tone of the show now. Oliver in the flashbacks should be going down a pretty dark path. He's a year away from being the guy we saw during S1, but the EPs are indicating we're going to have a happy, quippy guy in the present. Would those two tones be too jarring to jump back and forth from? 

[Chaser]

He is Green Arrow this season right? The flashbacks were to show his evolution to Green Arrow. For some reason, I always that the last episode of the series would be when he choose the moniker and it would parallel with the boat getting him off the island. Oliver Queen coming full circle. 

 

But since this season he is the Green Arrow…what is going to be the point of the flashbacks?

[Velocity23]

[kismet]

The magic mentions don't worry me just yet because I know its probably just so they can get their Vixen web series up & running with Arrow's help. I think in small doses like they did with the metas it will be tolerable on Arrow. I don't really see it taking over the show or pulling it too far from the realism that grounds the show.

 

The language thing was funny... :)

Have to admit, I now have more than a few songs with Magic in the lyrics running through my head since reading about it so often.

It also is indirectly making me think of Magic Mike and dancing. So maybe its all a big hint that OQ may dance this upcoming season after all. After all it is a new day in Star[ling] City.

[foreverevolving]

 

Wow.. that was a loud sigh that came out of my mouth seeing that title.. and not the good type of sigh.

This title should have been kept for the last episode of the show. wayyy too soon.

 

also.. did anyone even guess that title? I remember everyone were talking about it in the hopes and fears thread when the 1st draft was shown.

Edited July 13, 2015 by foreverevolving

[tarotx]

If Laurel can be Black Canary than Oliver can easily be Green Arrow. And if he's going to be green Arrow I don't see why not call an Episode Green Arrow.

The Flash backs are to show how he became the crazy looking fellow rescued on the island and the S1 hood.

I have no issue with mysticism and magic on a realism driven fantasy show. That stuff is real to many non crazy people. Of course not to the degree a super hero show will take it but there is a degree of truth imo. Especially herb based spell like things and sensing auras and energies from people.

[Chaser]

Beth Schwartz. Huh

 

I'm disappointed. I don't know why, but I really didn't want to watch Green Arrow. I wanted the show to end with him becoming Green Arrow. I think the spin-offs threw the original plan off balance. Flash, LOT, all feature their fully monikered heroes. You can't have an origin story thrown into the mix I guess. That and Black Canary. The way they just masked her in half a season put Oliver behind the curve even more. 

 

I think they were left no choice in the matter. But yeah, a little bit of a let down.

Edited July 13, 2015 by 10Eleven12

[tv echo]

They could use magic to accelerate Laurel's transition into the fully capable BC or give her a supernatural Canary Cry.  IIRC, there is supposed to be a "one big development" happening with her in S4.

 

EDITED: corrected quote.

Edited July 13, 2015 by tv echo

[Morrigan2575]

I don't know about that.  I remember interviews from the summer before S2 that strongly hinted at Oliver becoming Green Arrow in S4.  I don't think they changed or accelerated his path.

 

They could use magic to accelerate Laurel's transition into the fully capable BC or give her a supernatural Canary Cry.  IIRC, there is supposed to be a "significant development" happening with her in S4.

 

Was this something said this weekend during SDCC or is this related to KC's con appearance where she said something from S3 didn't happen but it might happen in S4 so she couldn't talk about it.

Edited July 13, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[tv echo]

Sorry, the exact words were "one big development" and not "significant development" (I misquoted from memory).

 

In the TV Guide SDCC special issue (scans posted in Spoilers thread), MG referred to "one big development" for Laurel that he can't talk about yet.

 

Tying that development to BC or Canary Cry is just speculation on my part.

 

Incidentally, magic could enter S4 in several ways.  Magic has been tied to Malcolm (The Magician), Vixen and perhaps even a guest appearance by Constantine.

Edited July 13, 2015 by tv echo

[Morrigan2575]

Ah OK, thanks.  Without reading and just looking at the quote my guess would have been tied to Sara or a Love Interest.  I didn't even think of a "real" canary cry because I figured if that's what they wanted for her they wouldn't have done the dog collar version.

[tv echo]

Considering that DD is a big tech guy and they're also bringing in Anarky and Mr. Terrific, could magic be used as the counterbalance?  Like a science versus mysticism - or man-made 'magic' versus real magic - thing.

Edited July 13, 2015 by tv echo

[Sunshine]

I think the "one big development" for Laurel is related to Sara and ties into KC saying something along the lines of Laurel "being the inspiration" for LOT.

[Guest]

I'm kind of split on when he should be called Green Arrow. My first reaction is that the episode title is more fitting for an end of season episode, just like "My Name is Oliver Queen" was for the end of s3. But I do think he's more than earned his GA label, especially when you compare it to Laurel who fumbled around for a few episodes and got everything that supposedly made her BC handed to her within the same season. I thought that was such a copout and no, it didn't seem earned to me. So fuck yeah, he should be GA when he's been on his journey for eight years. But as a season opener, I don't know. Seems strange. 

 

As for magic on the show, no thanks. I knew we'd go there eventually though. This 'grounded in realism' crap was just a front. They've been slowly edging more towards this with every season. First it's the magic herbs. Then it's the mirakuru. Then it's the LP. Meh. Whatever. I just hope it's used sparingly. 

[wonderwall]

Sorry but I'm not disappointed at all. I think out of everyone, Oliver deserves the title and I'm glad to see it play out. Just because he's GA doesn't mean he won't have his own issues. And to be honest I'd like to see said issues. I watched Smallville and was pissed that Clarke only became superman at the end of the series.

[dtissagirl]

I'm now 100% sure that the "grounded in realism" talk from S1 was scaredy cats PR, and now they don't need it anymore. I'm sorry for those in the audience who feel like they've been duped by that, but the second they announced a Flash show I was certain that was it -- Arrow was gonna start dealing with more comic book-y anti-realistic stuff as well.

 

They hammered on the "grounded" thing because they were the first superhero show out of the gate, heavily influenced by Nolan, who is pretty much ashamed of saying the word "Batman" in his Batman movies, and they actually had the dirty job of convincing a skeptical audience that serialized superhero storylines on TV can be enjoyed by adults. And then there were superheroes everywhere, and Arrow legit doesn't need to pretend it isn't a superhero show anymore.

 

Plus, they're heavily influenced by Buffy and Angel, and now they can actively play with the same themes those shows played, by contrasting realistic reactions to out-of-this-world phenomena.

[Sakura12]

For me all I can say about that title is, FINALLY!

 

Everyone else got their super hero moniker without doing any of the hard work Oliver has done in the past 7 years! I was getting annoyed that any idiot that put on a mask (or helmet) got to go by their hero name before him. Oliver deserved his hero name before Laurel got hers. 

Edited July 13, 2015 by Sakura12

[quarks]

I'm now 100% sure that the "grounded in realism" talk from S1 was scaredy cats PR, and now they don't need it anymore. I'm sorry for those in the audience who feel like they've been duped by that, but the second they announced a Flash show I was certain that was it -- Arrow was gonna start dealing with more comic book-y anti-realistic stuff as well.

 

 

I'm not so sure. I think the initial intent was to do a grounded in realism show. Then, Arrow was more successful than they anticipated, which made a few of the powers-that-be think, yay, spinoff.  Which brought up the ok, who?  DC just doesn't have that many superhero characters without superpowers, and quite a few that they do have are tied up in the Batman franchise. Which eventually led to picking Flash for a potential spinoff.

 

I do agree that once Barry Allen came on board, the grounded in realism bit was off the table, thus mirakuru and Lazarus Pits and now whatever will be happening with Vixen, Damien Darkh and Flash and Legends crossovers.  There's a limit to just how "realistic" Arrow can be in a shared universe with a telepathic gorilla. time travel and a girl with wings.

[dtissagirl]

So I guess Barry Allen supersonic punched the Nolan influence out, to which I say YAAAAAAY. :)

[Scribbles]

Not to go off from the magic discussion by too much, but one spoiling bit that slipped in to the panel discussion was PB (Quentin) saying he was fitted for a new suit as well.  He described it as grey. Any takers on odds that Lance will no longer be a police officer?  That could open up a lot more story for him.

[apinknightmare]

Quentin shouldn't be in law enforcement anymore - he went utterly batshit in public at the end there. But, this is Arrow, so he probably got a promotion. 

Edited July 13, 2015 by apinknightmare

[Sunshine]

Quentin shouldn't be in law enforcement anymore - he went utterly batshit in public at the end there. But, this is Arrow, so he probably got a promotion. 

Police commissioner?

[dtissagirl]

From the io9 article just posted in the news thread:
 

In addition to magic, Mericle said the show will be delving into the theme of “family,” including our main characters’ actual families as well as the found family of Team Arrow. They’ll ask, “What does it mean to be part of a family,” and how are chosen families different from birth families, said Mericle.

This is the one that's making me [scared shitless of being] hopeful, because chosen/found families? Is my very favorite story trope in the world ever. Gah.

[apinknightmare]

Police commissioner?

 

If they're going to have Oliver run for public office, I suppose that would be the easiest way for them to interact.

[AyChihuahua]

They had Quentin switch from hatekilldestroy Oliver to "Hey Felicity, I'd like to help out your boyfriend" at the very end.  It was totally bizarre, but I'm guessing he's back on board, so if he's the commissioner that would be helpful.  At least until he has another batshit crazy hissy-fit and punches the handcuffed Oliver in the face again. 

 

I am so over all the Lances except Sara.

[Velocity23]

Could they spin Anarky as Felicitys dad?

[apinknightmare]

They could, but from the IGN interview, WM made it seem like Felicity's dad isn't anyone who's already slated to appear.

[DeathQuaker]

I wonder if Quentin will become a private detective. IIRC in the comics, Larry Lance was a P.I. who was former police.

 

I'm cool with the magic if only because I'm super stoked about Vixen being written into the Flarrowverse. I do hope they keep the presence of magic to a minimal if only to keep them from avoiding using magic as a crutch to instantly solve problem. Oh wait, except Arrow was already doing that as far back as season 1 with magic herbs that instantly cure curare poisoning, etc. .... ;) I really hope after the webseries, Vixen will show up in live action from as a guest in an episode. Not just because she is a female POC--we need more of those in the superhero universes--but moreover just she is an amazing character.

 

I am much too lazy to look up old interviews, but I have a vague recollection of the producers not saying they were going to keep the entire series "grounded in the real world" but rather they were going to START OFF being grounded in the real world in Season 1 and then build up from there, with more comic booky elements being slowly introduced. And then the problem is that got quoted out of context and some folks' expectations were not adjusted accordingly. I could very well be misremembering, but OTOH I've never felt surprised by any of fantasy elements being worked into the show.

Edited July 13, 2015 by DeathQuaker

[Velocity23]

They could, but from the IGN interview, WM made it seem like Felicity's dad isn't anyone who's already slated to appear.

 

 

 

*grumbles* Goes searching DC database for another hacker for Felicitys dad.

[wingster55]

I have no issues with him adding "Green" to the title. Doesn't mean he's still not growing or learning. 

[Chaser]

I don't like the conflicting info on Felicity's father. DR made it sound like it was a done deal. WM talks exploring Felicity's family. MG acknowledged there were heavy expectations there and said that Felicity fans would be happy with this season.

 

Then you get to Comic Con and it's maybe we will see him at the end of the season, trying to figure our how to work him in, etc..

 

Please don't push this back again.

[Delphi]

*grumbles* Goes searching DC database for another hacker for Felicitys dad.

Could they make her dad Noah Kuttler/the Calculator? He's a bad guy, but really does love his kids in a perverse way. He also tends to get involved in super criminal societies.

[apinknightmare]

I don't like the conflicting info on Felicity's father. DR made it sound like it was a done deal. 

 

It could be that they all know who he is, just that the EPs haven't figured out how to work him into the story yet. 

[Chaser]

It could be that they all know who he is, just that the EPs haven't figured out how to work him into the story yet. 

That's the part that concerns me. MG made her father sound like a big deal all the way back in S2 (I wish I could find the link). I would just think they had it planned out before they teased on it.

 

It's weird. I'm both happy they didn't spoil much and annoyed we didn't get more.

[Guest]

Yeah, I'm actually glad we weren't as spoiled as we were last year. By the time 301 aired, they had basically revealed everything about the episode so I'm ok with not knowing more. I would have liked a little more hint on Diggle but if DR says it's finally his season, then I'm gonna trust him. It better be though otherwise I will riot. By which I mean I will just moan about it on here. LOL.

[Guest]

Could they spin Anarky as Felicitys dad?

 

 

They could, but from the IGN interview, WM made it seem like Felicity's dad isn't anyone who's already slated to appear.

 

 

I remember DR saying at one of his recent cons about how when we met Felicity's dad, we'd know why she's so intelligent or something along those lines. And I've been reading a little about Anarky and aside from the age issue, it does kind of link up. Super intelligence, skilled hacker. And I wonder if the political thing would sync up with Oliver possibly getting involved in politics. Maybe Anarky sees Felicity with Oliver and that sets the ball rolling. I don't know. All spec of course.

 

But yeah, they did hint that her dad might not appear but maybe they're trying to keep things close to their chests for once. They gave so much away last year. 

[Sunshine]

IIRC they came up with a backstory for Felicity between S1-S2 when she was made a regular.  They said they didn't want to introduce them at the same time because one would greatly overshadow the other.  Now we know dad would overshadow mom.  I am guessing 4B is the earliest he shows up because they have to deal with the LOT set-up in 4A which should wrap up the Ray/Felicity storyline.  I believe Felicity is supposed to be responsible for bringing Ray "back".  Maybe this is what she and Mr. Terrific work on together? 

[Scribbles]

The EP's have been consistent on claiming they know who Felicity's father is for years now.  That, plus the note by one of them long ago that the hint was huge in a season 2 episode, is why I think it is Arthur Light.  With him they have to decide how murky to make him because he is a very complex mix of possible good and bad.  Physics specialization also just fits right in with the type of intelligence Felicity has.  She is not primarily a hacker, hacking is a part of the problem solving mathematics talent she has.  She is not so much a coder as an engineer with theorectical proficiencies.  A great calculator is not necessarily a great math thinker.  She is a puzzle solver, logician with creative abilities. 

 

I suspect there was more to that villian with the lazer eyes thing this season (the one Ray saved her from-with Oliver's help).  He could well be a product of her father's experiments.  Remember how they made the point of Cisco noting he wasn't present for the particle explosion?