Spoiler Discussion Thread

[jay741982]

I still so irritated that Felicity is involved with any of this crap. She has to be in the middle of the Atom and the Arrow? Fuck that shit. 

 

Do we know who the VOTW is for 318? All the spoilers are running together in my head. I do want everyone who goes in on the Malcolm Merlyn's an awesome guy plan to grovel at Felicity's feet when his sudden but inevitable betrayal happens. I'm almost positive that Felicity's in the hospital just because this show would never take time to flesh out her life by making it about Mama Smoak.

Yeah I'm not liking the in between ATOM and ARROW shit either. If Felicity gets hurt cause of fucking Meryln there better be ass kissing involved with her. I'm pretty sure Oliver will be lol.

[statsgirl]

The only thing I can think of if Felicity's the one injured is that she's in the ICU and only relatives can visit and Donna just won't leave her side.

Maybe she's unconscious to give EBR a rest after pulling double duty on the Flash too.

 

If this hypothetical bomb goes off and hypothetically injures Felicity, what are the chances that it's Malcolm Merlyn's fault?  Felicity and Diggle were so adamant against working with him, and the result is that is nearly gets her killed.

That would be awesome.  Think of all the manpain you could give Oliver, writers.  You'd love that.

 

Malcolm is captured by Ra's in ep 315 though.  Will hr be free by now?

 

I wonder if Donna is in Starling visiting Felicity and they both get taken out? Kind of like episode five, but with them getting nearly blown up instead of kidnapped and held at gunpoint.

If that happens and if I were Donna, I'd never, ever set foot in Starling City again, not even for a christening.

[jay741982]

Maybe she's unconscious to give EBR a rest after pulling double duty on the Flash too.

 

That would be awesome.  Think of all the manpain you could give Oliver, writers.  You'd love that.

 

Malcolm is captured by Ra's in ep 315 though.  Will hr be free by now?

 

If that happens and if I were Donna, I'd never, ever set foot in Starling City again, not even for a christening.

Not even for her daughter's wedding to Oliver LOL?

[BkWurm1]

It SHOULD be advancing her story making her evaluate what she truly wants. Good writing would advance her story and Oliver's if she is the one who's severely hurt

 

I'm more inclined to believe we would get Felicity doing self reflection than any overt reaction from Oliver confessing all his feelings to a comatose Felicity just because I think MG would be trolling an awesome Olicity moment in 3.18 and not some cryptic "5" thing. 

 

Not this season. or at least the decision to fight for that balance will happen probably by the finale, but the finding of the balance is going to be all of season 4. At least that's my prediction

 

Very much my prediction too.  It seems the more extreme he acts as the Arrow, the more extreme he might react when he rejects making choices like teaming up with Malcolm or hanging on team LoA.  I could see this leading him to overcorrect and drop being the Arrow since Starling now has other viable protectors.  Then season four would have him learning that he is not just one or the other but both Oliver Queen and the Arrow. 

[kismet]

If this hypothetical bomb goes off and hypothetically injures Felicity, what are the chances that it's Malcolm Merlyn's fault?  Felicity and Diggle were so adamant against working with him, and the result is that is nearly gets her killed.

I would even go so far to hypothetically suggest that Malcolm intentionally puts Felicity in harm's way. After all he recognizes, the threat she poses to any masterplan he has regarding Oliver. And trust me redemption arc or not - MM will eventually reveal his true colors and they tend to be a little shady.

[Ariah]

I would even go so far to hypothetically suggest that Malcolm intentionally puts Felicity in harm's way. After all he recognizes, the threat she poses to any masterplan he has regarding Oliver. And trust me redemption arc or not - MM will eventually reveal his true colors and they tend to be a little shady.

If Malcolm captured by Ra's reveales to him that Felicity is the way of harming Oliver... then yes, I can see that happening.

 

But a part of me wants Felicity to be injured in an accident non-related to the Arrow, the ATOM or anything superhero-y. I know it won't happen on a show like this, but...

[BkWurm1]

But a part of me wants Felicity to be injured in an accident non-related to the Arrow, the ATOM or anything superhero-y. I know it won't happen on a show like this, but...

 

Yes one of those life is short and comes with no guarantee even when you are totally minding your business and not engaged in dangerous secret crime fighting.  But yes, alas...

[SleepDeprived]

I'm making a wild speculation that the Oliver look-alike will be Arrow's version of Hannibal Bates, aka Everyman, who can physically copy others by eating part of their body. Except Bates obviously (hopefully) won't be a cannibal but more like someone who copies the Arrow for some reason. Maybe Bates impersonating the Arrow could be another cog in Malcolm's convoluted shenanigans since his name was on the Undertaking/Malcolm's List in S1. There's already a connection with Malcolm and Bates established on the show.

 

From what I've read, Hannibal Bates had a story in the comics where he pretended to be Green Arrow and tried to kill Dinah, as well as another story where he teamed-up with Cupid and tried to blow-up Green Arrow, Black Canary, and Speedy (Mia not Roy). So, if that still from SA's Facebook is from 3x18, it could be that fake-Arrow tries to kill Felicity/tries to blow-up the foundry when Felicity is there (the foundry getting exploded could be what SA meant when he said "literally blow up the show"?). She ends up hospitalized with Mama Smoak watching over her, while Oliver hunts fake-Arrow down. And since the show likes being heavy-handed, someone looking exactly like the Arrow literally being the one to "kill"/almost-kill Felicity might finally be that wake-up call to Oliver that choosing to only be the Arrow suit will definitely lead to a life without Felicity. Because, right now, Felicity is still there as part of Team Arrow even if she moves on romantically away from him. He can still pine for her, albeit from a distance. But if a pseudo-Arrow gravely injures Felicity and she flatlines for 5 seconds? Well, that's something that might actually get through to him and make him want to live not just as the Arrow but Oliver Queen, too.

[Genki]

If Malcolm captured by Ra's reveales to him that Felicity is the way of harming Oliver... then yes, I can see that happening.

 

But a part of me wants Felicity to be injured in an accident non-related to the Arrow, the ATOM or anything superhero-y. I know it won't happen on a show like this, but...

 

I don't know if I want Felicity injured for Oliver to go crazy over protective in the hospital or to have some revelation about his decisions. However the EPs love good DiD cliche so if she must be injured at all I prefer your scenario @Ariah and for Felicity to have the revelation about her life *cough*Ray*cough* choices.

 

I'm making a wild speculation that the Oliver look-alike will be Arrow's version of Hannibal Bates, aka Everyman, who can physically copy others by eating part of their body. Except Bates obviously (hopefully) won't be a cannibal but more like someone who copies the Arrow for some reason. Maybe Bates impersonating the Arrow could be another cog in Malcolm's convoluted shenanigans since his name was on the Undertaking/Malcolm's List in S1. There's already a connection with Malcolm and Bates established on the show.

 

From what I've read, Hannibal Bates had a story in the comics where he pretended to be Green Arrow and tried to kill Dinah, as well as another story where he teamed-up with Cupid and tried to blow-up Green Arrow, Black Canary, and Speedy (Mia not Roy). So, if that still from SA's Facebook is from 3x18, it could be that fake-Arrow tries to kill Felicity/tries to blow-up the foundry when Felicity is there (the foundry getting exploded could be what SA meant when he said "literally blow up the show"?). She ends up hospitalized with Mama Smoak watching over her, while Oliver hunts fake-Arrow down. And since the show likes being heavy-handed, someone looking exactly like the Arrow literally being the one to "kill"/almost-kill Felicity might finally be that wake-up call to Oliver that choosing to only be the Arrow suit will definitely lead to a life without Felicity. Because, right now, Felicity is still there as part of Team Arrow even if she moves on romantically away from him. He can still pine for her, albeit from a distance. But if a pseudo-Arrow gravely injures Felicity and she flatlines for 5 seconds? Well, that's something that might actually get through to him and make him want to live not just as the Arrow but Oliver Queen, too.

 

 

I could see how Hannibal Bates could be a villain in 3.18. I would prefer it if Malcolm was not involved.

 

I'm already tired of the "Felicity is in the middle of Atom and Arrow"...Le Sigh!

Edited February 8, 2015 by Genki

[SleepDeprived]

Well, you know, who said love interests are the only ones that can be damsels-in-distress or be the only ones that inspire revelations for loveable but thick-headed heroes?

 

How about, just to make everything more insane and unbelievably crazier, Diggle, Roy, maybe even Thea, Palmer, and/or Laurel are all hospitalized or incapacitated due to injuries because of pseudo-Arrow's activities/the bomb and Oliver is left to battle him alone. Oliver loses everyone because of "the Arrow," even though it's a fake-Arrow, which causes him to rethink his life and his choices. If they're all in hospital beds/injured then Mama Smoak wouldn't have a chance to interact with anyone else since everyone else are having their injuries tended elsewhere.

[Genki]

As long as Mama Smoak gets to interact with Oliver....

I real hope MG was talking about Thea in that Tumblr ask and she can still interact with someone other that Felicity.

[Belinea]

The one thing that really bugs me is that "The Atom has a problem with The Arrow" spoiler- So Ray has a suit for a New York minute and already feels as though he can tell others how to do it better. I get that Oliver sometimes doesn't think at all, is extreme and so on. But he was forced to learn how to survive, he had to fight and he doesn't really know how to be different anymore. (At least he has a very very slow learning curve) He has tried to protect the city for a long time and I don't like the implication that Ray has opinions regarding him and his methods. He hasn't done anything at all yet. Maybe the problem has to do with Felicity. But then she should (once again) take a stand and shut the problem down. I really don't like triangles. I have a feeling she will go with Ray as the superior hero at the moment and I am trying to be ok with it. As long as they have their majority of scenes off-screen I might not mind as much. One can hope. 

[tv echo]

Yeah, the Mama Smoak episode spoilers are confusing.

 

I just realized that MG was telling the truth when he said it wasn't a BC trilogy.  311 was Laurel-centric.  312 was Malcolm-centric.  313 will be Laurel-centric.  So technically speaking, two out of three does not make a trilogy.

[BkWurm1]

I'm making a wild speculation that the Oliver look-alike will be Arrow's version of Hannibal Bates, aka Everyman, who can physically copy others by eating part of their body. Except Bates obviously (hopefully) won't be a cannibal but more like someone who copies the Arrow for some reason.

This makes me wonder if the copycat might damage his reputation as Arrow to the point where he could feel he can't be effective as the Arrow anymore. It would only work if this Hannibal Bates was around for a big arc and maybe it's too late to set something like that up.

[Morrigan2575]

I read the SA quote in the spoiler section if accurate it doesn't imply Arrow/ATOM are fighting over Felicity or anything. Seems more like Arrow/ATOM have different takes on how to protect the city and Felicity is stuck in the middle of the argument because she works with and knows both men behind the masks.

I know they implied romance but this could be part of the whole Felicity choice thing. Which path (hero) is the right one for her (morally/ethically speaking)?

Edited February 8, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[BkWurm1]

I think the bigger question is who needs her more.

[quarks]

The one thing that really bugs me is that "The Atom has a problem with The Arrow" spoiler- So Ray has a suit for a New York minute and already feels as though he can tell others how to do it better. 

 

I don't know that it bugs me, exactly - Ray Palmer isn't my favorite character, but to give the guy all due credit, he has been remarkably successful in his life: PhD,  billionaire, able to quickly snap up companies, already getting Palmer Techs stock option up - so I can see where he would have the self confidence to do that. And let's face it - they made a good point over on Flash when they pointed out that Starling City has been hit by two terrorist attacks since Oliver's started operating there, so he can stand a little criticism. Even I'm having some problems with Oliver "yes, I think that teaming up with the guy that originally started all this damn mess and most recently had my sister kill my ex-girlfriend is an awesome idea" Queen just now, even if this is the sort of batshit insane plot twist that's making me rub my hands in glee. 

 

It does, however, puzzle me.  This is a character that they've flat out said they want a spin-off for. I would think, therefore, that the goal would be to make the character as popular and cool as possible. And to a certain extent they've done that - Ray has a cool suit, and he says funny things, and the popular IT character likes him, so this is all good. At the same time, they've also set things up so that Ray's in opposition to the protagonist of the show - the very guy we're supposed to sympathize with - going after Oliver's company and then Oliver's girl. Not exactly the way to win fan support.  And now they want to have Ray tell Oliver how to protect the city? Huh. Sure, Barry got a spinoff after calling Oliver a jerk - but Barry is based on a much better known character, and Barry helped Oliver out and saved his life before the jerk comment.  We still haven't seen Ray save or help out anything other than Palmer Technologies - even Laurel was more useful during the Brick attack. 

 

What makes this development particularly odd is that it's presumably happening in episodes 15-18 - episodes written after they'd gotten the initial, tepid fan feedback from Ray's initial appearance. If it's in episode 18, then it was written after the fan reaction to "Draw Back Your Bow," which wavered between "whatever" and "this Ray/Felicity relationship is a little creepy" and "oooh, robots." I would have figured that the response to this would have been "ok then, robots," just for the sake of getting the spinoff, not "hey, let's have him fight with Oliver!" 

 

Hmm.

[BkWurm1]

In regards to SA's comments about him maybe having to imagine life without Felicity, I was listening to the clip over in the public appearances page (it's the one labeled Hi Olicity Friends/Hola Olicity, the last 40 seconds) and the low shock of horror that went around the room was almost comical. Like the notion really is unthinkable. It's a good piece of feedback for SA to bring back to the set IMO.

[looptab]

I know this has been discussed already, but listening to the last SA panel, the point where he says how everyone tells Oliver he has to adapt  to the new order  really bugged me in a way it didn't before when this spoiler first came out.

I mean, I never really got the impression that Oliver was this dictator and the Team did't have any say. I'm wondering if they might amp up on his douchery to drive the point home or if it's a "side-effect" of his being defeated, i.e. him wanting to be more in control of the few things he can be?

[apinknightmare]

I read the SA quote in the spoiler section if accurate it doesn't imply Arrow/ATOM are fighting over Felicity or anything. Seems more like Arrow/ATOM have different takes on how to protect the city and Felicity is stuck in the middle of the argument because she works with and knows both men behind the masks.

I know they implied romance but this could be part of the whole Felicity choice thing. Which path (hero) is the right one for her (morally/ethically speaking)?

Yeah, that spoiler makes me think that they have a fundamenal difference of opinion on how to handle a problem and Felicity is caught in the middle of that. I wonder if either of them is aware that Felicity is working with the other at that point?

[KirkB]

I know this has been discussed already, but listening to the last SA panel, the point where he says how everyone tells Oliver he has to adapt  to the new order  really bugged me in a way it didn't before when this spoiler first came out.

I mean, I never really got the impression that Oliver was this dictator and the Team did't have any say. I'm wondering if they might amp up on his douchery to drive the point home or if it's a "side-effect" of his being defeated, i.e. him wanting to be more in control of the few things he can be?

 

 

I kind of did. I mean, yes Diggle and Felicity and Roy had a say, but in the end they always did whatever Oliver decided they should do, and how he decided they should do it.They didn't have to like it, they could complain, but Oliver has always been a my way or the highway kind of guy. He listens to Felicity and Diggle though and sometimes changes his mind but it's still always been up to HIS mind to be changed for things to go forward.

Edited February 8, 2015 by KirkB

[romantic idiot]

And now of course, he's gone and teamed up with MM. That really shows that they need to shake  things up. Though, sometimes, I think Diggle is maybe pointing out Felicity acting a little cold towards him as the new order of things, after Oliver's choice. At least i hope it is. They've confirmed it's due to a more 'democratic' way of running things, is it?

 

 I know Felicity has scenes in a hospital with Donna (and MG did confirm that someone was in the hospital for an injury), but I hope that Felicity's not the one injured. I'm tired of women being injured/kidnapped to advance men's stories (of course this is Arrow so that's probably exactly what will happen).

Honestly, usually i'd be against that as well - but in this regard I think the man does need the woman seriously injured or hurt to get through to him. They already tried the plainspeakinug route and it didn't seem to work. So in this particular instance, I wouldn't mind it. 

 

Maybe being injured will advance Felicity's story or feelings about things? Hahaha who are we kidding? That will never happen.

Again, it would be good if it makes Felicity re-evaluate her choices as well, but i don't think i'd like it if she did since it would just be more of her going towards Raylicity. Again, I think Felicity knows what she wants, so I'm not looking for a lot of character development from that. And nearly dying won't help her abandonment issues, so in this instance, I'd be okay with her not changing or evolving as a result of her injury. Unless it taught her to be more cautious about giant cameras staring her in the face. Or dealt with her feelings of inadequacy as a hero, which we've seen them touch upon a little. 

 

If that happens and if I were Donna, I'd never, ever set foot in Starling City again, not even for a christening.

I think you are underestimating mothers there :0) Especially a good one like Donna. 

 

Very much my prediction too.  It seems the more extreme he acts as the Arrow, the more extreme he might react when he rejects making choices like teaming up with Malcolm or hanging on team LoA.  I could see this leading him to overcorrect and drop being the Arrow since Starling now has other viable protectors.  Then season four would have him learning that he is not just one or the other but both Oliver Queen and the Arrow. 

 

I could see things going this way too. Since the pendulum must swing completely the other way before coming to rest in the middle and these writers seem like the type who'd like to bookend the season like that. We'll see I guess. 

[looptab]

I kind of did. I mean, yes Diggle and Felicity and Roy had a say, but in the end they always did whatever Oliver decided they should do, and how he decided they should do it.They didn't have to like it, they could complain, but Oliver has always been a my way or the highway kind of guy. He listens to Felicity and Diggle though and sometimes changes his mind but it's still always been up to HIS mind to be changed for things to go forward.

I guess I saw the fact that he listened to them as a "Team" approach already. I think what bothers me it's more that I don't know what to expect from this development, like, what are they going to do? Go out and about at random? Take the initiative, without being told what to do? They sort of already do it. How are they going to show this shift in the dynamic? This is what I'm dreading, and it may or may not be an irrational fear due to the status quo in that damn cave being changed so much already that I don't know if I can take any more. (It may be. It definitely is) :)

[Ang]

Do I have the timeline right if I think the Arrow double shows up, causes trouble, convinces Ray that the Arrow's a threat, and Ray decides he needs to be taken down?

@looptab, IRL to answer those questions would require an analysis of power, and I think it would come down to a question of resources. Whoever's funding this gig would have an advantage when it came to making decisions. Since the writers and producers of Arrow aren't really solid on the whole "money" concept and Team Arrow is funding their very costly endeavors via Heroic Intentions and the Ghost of Fortunes Past, I assume it'll come down to a bit of bickering about how they actually do things or a temporary disagreement on priorities.

Edited February 8, 2015 by Ang

[Guest]

I really hope this thing with Felicity being in the middle is more about their hero counterparts than her being between Ray and Oliver because there's something about that which feels so gross and icky otherwise. I like a bit of jealous Oliver sometimes but not like this. No. Why do we have to have Felicity in the middle at all? 

 

Also there's something about Oliver having to fit back in with his team and toe the party line that doesn't sit right with me. I do think he needs to become a bit more of a team player but it's not like the team was actually working all that well without him. They make it sound like they were the most successful Team Arrow ever and don't really need Oliver's help anymore and that's just wrong. I hope it doesn't come across the way the episode description and spoilers have made it sound. 

[BkWurm1]

Do I have the timeline right if I think the Arrow double shows up, causes trouble, convinces Ray that the Arrow's a threat, and Ray decides he needs to be taken down?

 

See this would be interesting.

 

I also have to admit I'd kind of love if in the middle of a mission with Team Arrow Felicity deployed Ray and he'd get in and out before they know what's happened.  There are some circumstances dudes in leather with Arrows really isn't going  to cut it.  I'm annoyed enough at Oliver that I would enjoy him feeling knocked down a few pegs. 

 

If the reason Felicity is caught between the Arrow and Atom is more personal, then I wonder if her bullet wound scar that is supposed to make an appearance could be a trigger.  Seems less likely. 

[jay741982]

The thought of Felicity seriously thinking Ray is a superior vilgante to Oliver makes me Ill cause Oliver has been at for a long time. Another thing would be are they seriously trying to ruin Felicity more in some fans eyes?

[statsgirl]

Am I supposed to hate Thea?  I was excited for her storyline when the season started but with that clip of Oliver saying that Ra's al Ghul is coming for them and the only way to get out of it is for them to work together, I've reached the end of my rope with her.  He wouldn't be in this mess if it weren't for trying to save her, and she wouldn't be in it if she hadn't flounced off in a hissy fit at the end of season 2 and hooked up with the man who is a mass murderer (instead of refusing to have anything to do with him like she did with her mother) and is now telling Roy how great he was for saving her when no one else did when Roy was out saving the whole freaking city.

 

I hope that "Oliver has to adapt to the new order" is not just about Laurel fighting but also about Felicity and Diggle disagreeing with him on moral principles and because he's making stupid decisions, really digging their heels in this time, but I'm afraid that's beyond this show.

 

 But if a pseudo-Arrow gravely injures Felicity and she flatlines for 5 seconds? Well, that's something that might actually get through to him and make him want to live not just as the Arrow but Oliver Queen, too.

 

Good thought, but if an Arrow-look-alike is the one who  hurts Felicity, the current idiot on our screen would be more likely to double down on pushing her away.

 

I just realized that MG was telling the truth when he said it wasn't a BC trilogy.  311 was Laurel-centric.  312 was Malcolm-centric.  313 will be Laurel-centric.  So technically speaking, two out of three does not make a trilogy.

AK said it was a Laurel-trilogy and I think it was in the sense of a "Rise of the Black Canary" trilogy since in 312 she was an equal to Roy in fighting and a vote in the lair.

 

What makes this development particularly odd is that it's presumably happening in episodes 15-18 - episodes written after they'd gotten the initial, tepid fan feedback from Ray's initial appearance. If it's in episode 18, then it was written after the fan reaction to "Draw Back Your Bow," which wavered between "whatever" and "this Ray/Felicity relationship is a little creepy" and "oooh, robots." I would have figured that the response to this would have been "ok then, robots," just for the sake of getting the spinoff, not "hey, let's have him fight with Oliver!" 

I think they over-estimated the appeal of Raylicity, by a lot, so the plan is to have Oliver come back from Ra's, make a bunch of stupid decisions so that Ray can look good when he disagrees with them, and redeem Oliver at the end and get the girl.  This seems to be the season where the two remaining members of the Queen family have been taking stupid drops along with their morning tea.

 

Yeah, that spoiler makes me think that they have a fundamenal difference of opinion on how to handle a problem and Felicity is caught in the middle of that. I wonder if either of them is aware that Felicity is working with the other at that point?

Now that would be interesting and much better than fighting over Felicity as a love interest. as she tries to work with two superheroes who are both convinced they're doing things the right way (also Oliver having to adapt to the new order) while not letting one know she knows the other.  It would meet AK's statement that Felilcity has to choose between two guys but in terms of which is the right vigilante, not which guy is her love interest.  (Sadly I don't think it's going to be that but I would be the smart thing to do if they want to spin-off Ray for his own series.

 

 

I think you are underestimating mothers there :0) Especially a good one like Donna.

Speaking as a mother myself, I'd be trying like hell to get her out of a city where she gets blown up and kidnapped every time I visit.  What happens to her when I'm not around?

Edited February 8, 2015 by statsgirl

[Password]

I'm trying to think why I feel slighted by this, even though I know Oliver doesn't always do things well. Isn't it a good thing if Ray has alternate ideas?

I almost feel threatened by Ray tbh. Not just that, it's Ray and everything else happening that gets my back up and I want to strangely defend Oliver.

Felicity being in the middle doesn't bother me because bae can handle things like a boss. But Ray? He can go shove his suit and ideas.

Felicity having a choice between what is right and what is good seems a far better premise than choosing which guy she should be with. If they left Felicity and Ray platonic, I think it would've played out better. But romantic Raylicity and then Felicity saying deuces to Oliver almost overcomplicates things.

I really do think the writers had Oliver drink stupid tea instead of penicillin tea. I just cannot imagine he'd be THIS dumb. But anyway, we'll see how it plays out.

Edited February 8, 2015 by Limbo

[calliope1975]

Since SA said we'd be seeing the Lazarus Pit this year, my new crack theory is we'll see it in the back half of the season to establish what it can do, then Malcolm's going to die, and then we'll get some coda on the finale with Zombie!Tommy. He'll be S4's Dark Archer. I figure if I'm supposed to be enjoying what they're putting out now, which I'm not, at least they can give me some truly WTF stuff for next year. I bet Kid Queen is also some pint sized vigilante already patrolling Central City.

[Ang]

When i first got wind of Oliver's "death" and the Lazarus pit, I, you know, looked it up and read something about people coming back temporarily insane. I'd heard about how they treat the back half of the season in 3-4 episode chapters.

And all of a sudden I had this lovely, absurd, cartoonish picture of the season in my head. They effectively set up Ray as co-opting Oliver's former identity in the first nine episodes - billionaire, head of Oliver's company, vigilante-wannabe, and, sure, starting to win Felicity's affections. Then they take the elimination of Oliver's identity all the way and actually kill the guy!

They have three episodes where they show Starling City and Team Arrow, and, sure, Laurel, without the Arrow, and the Atom ratchets up his efforts to complete his suit and start his mission. Then Oliver comes back still damp from the Lazarus Pit, finds Ray essentially living his former life, and one way or another, loses his marbles. For three lovely episodes the Big Bad...is the Arrow! Angst, twist, SA getting to ham it up, conflicting loyalties, etc. They resolve things, with lingering romantic angst, enough for Atom and Arrow to eventually team up in the final few episodes against Malcolm, Ra's, and/or the League, and then at the end of the season, Atom leaves Star City a better place and takes his fight to Spinoffville. It was, frankly, a lot more fun, if sillier, in my head than what we've actually seen.

[BkWurm1]

The thought of Felicity seriously thinking Ray is a superior vilgante to Oliver makes me Ill cause Oliver has been at for a long time. Another thing would be are they seriously trying to ruin Felicity more in some fans eyes?

 

It can't be that she'll think that Ray is a better vigilante, but there has to be a lot of circumstances where zooming in in a battlesuit,, immune to gun fire and equipped with high tech weaponry is a safer, more effective choice than fists, arrows and showing off parkour skills.  We've seen Felicity want to keep her friends safe - if there was a set up they were going to be in over their heads, I can see her pushing Ray to take care of it first.   

[calliope1975]

So are we going to see Oliver in a LOA suit? Does he get to keep Arrow as his name or will Ra's change it?

[BkWurm1]

Ray, Roy, Ra's.

 

My head is starting to hurt. 

[jay741982]

It can't be that she'll think that Ray is a better vigilante, but there has to be a lot of circumstances where zooming in in a battlesuit,, immune to gun fire and equipped with high tech weaponry is a safer, more effective choice than fists, arrows and showing off parkour skills.  We've seen Felicity want to keep her friends safe - if there was a set up they were going to be in over their heads, I can see her pushing Ray to take care of it first.

I see how Rays suit would be safer and I know Felicity wants to keep her friends safe but man some of the hate she is getting is so damn uncalled for and Riduclous! How dare she want to keep Diggle and Roy from being killed how dare she be Mad that Oliver is a dumbass working with a Pyschopath! I just see her getting more hate cause MG keeps shoving Ray down our throats like he's some special awesome guy cause he makes Felicity prop him and possibly side with him(God forbid) over Team Arrow

Ray, Roy, Ra's.

 

My head is starting to hurt.

Mine is too lol

[SleepDeprived]

So are we going to see Oliver in a LOA suit? Does he get to keep Arrow as his name or will Ra's change it?

 

Well, isn't it League custom to adopt another name once people join? So, Oliver Queen will, probably, now be known as "The Batman." Heh. I wouldn't be surprised if they make Oliver's LoA name something like The Emerald Knight or The Hooded Crusader or some other take off of Batman's titles, though. Of course, they could just stick with The Emerald Archer as his LoA name since that was the official hashtag for Oliver's current arc, right?

 

I was thinking, if Felicity is injured, maybe she murmurs someone's name while unconscious with Donna Smoak within hearing distance. Which is why the "hospital sex" line comes up? I can see the show trying to be funny with the awkward that could arise from something like that between Felicity and Donna. I just hope we get a couple of very nice heart-to-hearts between Mama Smoak and Felicity because I want Felicity to open up some more about her thoughts/feelings with someone who actually makes sense for her to be opening up with. And since the show doesn't seem to want her confiding in Diggle all that much then Mama Smoak it is (no more unearned moments with Palmer or the insta-friendship with Laurel, please).

[jay741982]

I know I can't be the only one who noticed in the promo who Noticed Felicity enjoying Laurel completely whiffing when throwing a punch

[catrox14]

So thinking about SA's comments about the changing of suits...I think he'll be running for mayor.

[looptab]

Honestly, when SA talked about changing suits I thought he was referring to Oliver wearing a business suit again. Scenes with Ray and all that. :)

[jay741982]

So thinking about SA's comments about the changing of suits...I think he'll be running for mayor.

Ooh that could work or he's trying to get QC back. It's a step to show his lady love he wants to live

Edited February 8, 2015 by jay741982

[apinknightmare]

Honestly, when SA talked about changing suits I thought he was referring to Oliver wearing a business suit again. Scenes with Ray and all that. :)

 

I agree. As much as I don't want to see Oliver back in the business world because being CEO/in charge of pretty much anything really didn't seem to suit him, whatever it is just please, oh please, let this man get himself a job.

[SmallScreenDiva]

Honestly, when SA talked about changing suits I thought he was referring to Oliver wearing a business suit again. Scenes with Ray and all that. :)

 

I wouldn't say not to Oliver in a suit again. As hot as he looks in those Henleys, I need a little variation in his wardrobe, and he looks mighty fine a suit. Or out of it, with just the dress shirt rolled up to his forearms. He also looks dandy in a vest (City of Heroes). And as bonus, if Oliver is in a suit, then Diggle has to also be in a suit. #shallowendofpool

 

Back on topic, there was a quote in the Spoilers Only thread of Stephen saying there "We go back and forth a lot over the next few episodes," while talking about Oliver and Felicity and I can only hope/pray that what that means is Oliver and Felicity finally sit down and have an honest-to-goodness conversation about their relationship. No more of these truth bombs and walking away, but actual talk, stating their feelings and figuring out how they can actually be together.

[Jessie2009]

So based on what MG said on tumblr the episode where Felicity is in the middle of Oliver and Ray for whatever reason is 317. 

[looptab]

I agree. As much as I don't want to see Oliver back in the business world because being CEO/in charge of pretty much anything really didn't seem to suit him, whatever it is just please, oh please, let this man get himself a job.

Right? He's 30, is he going to live off Thea forever? (with MM money, let's not forget)

 

I wouldn't say not to Oliver in a suit again. As hot as he looks in those Henleys, I need a little variation in his wardrobe, and he looks mighty fine a suit. Or out of it, with just the dress shirt rolled up to his forearms. He also looks dandy in a vest (City of Heroes). And as bonus, if Oliver is in a suit, then Diggle has to also be in a suit. #shallowendofpool

 

I share your point of view on this delicate matter. We're getting no Sally, give us something show!

Also agree with O/F actually talking. If the scene from last episode has no repercussions until they decide to pick it up again I'll be very disappointed.

[Morrigan2575]

So based on what MG said on tumblr the episode where Felicity is in the middle of Oliver and Ray for whatever reason is 317.

That's also the episode where Felicity has a scene with Maseo. SA also made a tweet about good looking guys in suits during his Thursday night shoot. So it's possible something related to LoA in Starling City. Edited February 8, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[Guest]

Wowsa, 317 has A LOT going on. Diggle/Lyla wedding, Suicide Squad and whatever mission they're on, Felicity scene with Maseo, Felicity in the middle of whatever stuff is going on with Arrow vs Atom. Why do they insist on cramming so much in?

[Hook75]

I know I can't be the only one who noticed in the promo who Noticed Felicity enjoying Laurel completely whiffing when throwing a punch

 

 

Prop duty...

[jay741982]

How is it propping when shes enjoying Laurel not landing a punch lol

[apinknightmare]

How is it propping when shes enjoying Laurel not landing a punch lol

 

Laurel did land the punch.

[jay741982]

She did? It looked she whiffed and fell to the ground! Ugh now that line sucks! Fuck MG with the Laurel Propping. We never see them celebrate a punch from Dig or Oliver