Spoiler Discussion Thread

[apinknightmare]

MG's memory doesn't seem so great.  He keeps insisting that the mayor was in episode 3x05, but I don't recall that happening at all.  Unless, maybe my memory is not so great.  He also tends to write some pretty offputting/pervy stuff like never having the opportunity to confirm Felicity's natural haircolor or how he's sure that Felicity could molest a kitten and people would still love her.  Yuck.

 

I think the mayor probably was in 5, but her scene got cut and he doesn't remember. I didn't find the natural hair color comment gross, but the molesting thing, yeah.

[Chaser]

I am looking forward to Oliver and Ray interacting. It's about time.

 

I wonder if Oliver's change in outlook is a return to S1 Oliver or a grab life by the horns Oliver. MG's answer could go either way.

 

I'm less nervous about the Oliver and Felicity than I was, because I get the feeling its going to be a good reunion and things a headed in a nice direction…Than BAM. Kinda third party involved blows it all up. 

 

I LOL'd that Tommy would ship Olicity. MG is like 'No worries, Everyone ships it!'

 

 

See, I guess I don't figure there was much thought put into that scene since it's not really a way to disable someone without being able to fight. It's not like she took her shoe off and banged on a guy with it - she ripped her heel off, had to control the guy long enough to hold his arm still, and then had to have the aim and strength to be able to pierce his hand with the heel that wasn't connected to the shoe (which would've been easier). That, to me, is something that a capable person does. So I don't see it as something they did to show her being able to fight without skill, that's something I think they did to look "bad ass." YMMV, of course. 

I agree 100%. That's a Melinda May move right there. 

[Sunshine]

Regarding Felicity and the line she says about Ray in THE FLASH...MG doesn't work on The Flash.  Even if he has general knowledge of the storyline for 1.18 he probably doesn't have time to concern himself with the actual dialog.  AK made that statement not MG. As for the mayor, MG is working on 3x18-3x20.  It's possible the scene ended up on the cutting room floor.  He just remembers it was written. 

 

I have read comments by people elsewhere who think Ray is perfect for Felicity.  There are people who think Felicity will be with Ray at the end of the season and Oliver will be with Laurel because COMICS.  (I always wonder why those same people don't insist that Ray wind up with Jean Loring?)  There are others who think she should die at the end of Season 3 to further Oliver's man pain (and of course reunite Oliver with Laurel).  In interviews, now that he can talk since Oliver isn't dead,  SA has mentioned that Felicity is it for Oliver - at least this season.  Why?  SInce Laurel is taking up the Black Canary mantel a lot of people are assuming it is going to be Arrow & Canary.  It probably is but as TEAMMATES not lovers.  When these individuals make these statements like they are fact MG is having to reassure people that she's not going anywhere.  He gets a ton of is Felicity in ?s. 

[KirkB]

Honestly, I don't think anyone on either show is perfect for Felicity. Oliver is an obsessed vigilante who has a hard time seeing beyond his bow. Barry before the accident was a goofy forensics geek obsessed with his mother's murder, and after the accident is a super powered speed freak vigilante obsessed with his mother's murder. Ray is a rich genius obsessed with avenging his dead fiance by becoming, not surprisingly, a vigilante. Felicity obviously has a type but given the circumstances I'm not sure it's a good one.

[Chaser]

Honestly, I don't think anyone on either show is perfect for Felicity. Oliver is an obsessed vigilante who has a hard time seeing beyond his bow. Barry before the accident was a goofy forensics geek obsessed with his mother's murder, and after the accident is a super powered speed freak vigilante obsessed with his mother's murder. Ray is a rich genius obsessed with avenging his dead fiance by becoming, not surprisingly, a vigilante. Felicity obviously has a type but given the circumstances I'm not sure it's a good one.

I actually agree with this. For me, its an opposite's attract thing with Oliver that I like and find entertaining. But if it were real life, I would tell Felicity she needs a normal guy without issues. I didn't want a Ray type character as a love interest, I wanted someone outside the typical group. Someone who could offer a normal, uncomplicated life. Ray does nothing for her story because it's been played.

 

I just reread the question the person asked about Tommy and Felicity. And I wish he would have answered the question and instead of making it about Olicity. Because there was a lot of potential with bringing Tommy into the group.

[chaos is welcome]

If they wanted a realistic love interest (stalker behavior not withstanding), they should not have gone the tragic loss of loved fiancé route....it should have been a family member. Unless they are going for the grief fuck but then still no.

Interestingly, hubs, who rarely has opinions about characters, told me he's just sure ray is a liar, that he way lying about his story w Anna.

Great job, show, you can't even get the demo you want to buy in at this pt.

[Guest]

I'm sad that Ray is the ATOM because there's no chance of him going evil and I feel like that would have made him more interesting, at least to me.

 

Same goes for Laurel. If she had gone full-on evil I would be like 'YES. LOVE IT.' Instead everyone's gotta be a hero. It's kind of boring after a while.

[romantic idiot]

I just wish they's cast someone better for Ray. BR just doesn't do it for me (not in terms of sexiness, just in terms of an actor I want to watch), so a lot of his scenes fall flat. 

[HighHopes]

Spotted by someone on twitter. Apparently they have put Katie Cassidy's stunt double in an episode still. 

 

[SonofaBiscuit]

#EpicFail.  Hahaha.  I can't believe we missed that!  I see over in the spoiler thread that Oliver is probably going to be having nightmares about Felicity in this week's episode.  Hope that doesn't mean that we're back to the "because of the life I lead" crap when he returns.  Ugh!

Edited January 27, 2015 by SonofaBiscuit

[Guest]

LOL. Omg. Thankfully it's only an episode still and it hopefully won't be so obvious that it's her stunt double in the actual episode.

[Password]

Honestly, I don't think anyone on either show is perfect for Felicity. Oliver is an obsessed vigilante who has a hard time seeing beyond his bow. Barry before the accident was a goofy forensics geek obsessed with his mother's murder, and after the accident is a super powered speed freak vigilante obsessed with his mother's murder. Ray is a rich genius obsessed with avenging his dead fiance by becoming, not surprisingly, a vigilante. Felicity obviously has a type but given the circumstances I'm not sure it's a good one.

Hmm well I don't think her type is vigilante as much as men who want to save the city/make a difference. Besides she just clicked with Barry tbh.

I would have preferred the "normal guy" scenario to play out because it would've brought interesting conflict to Felicity's life, instead of Ray pseudo Oliver. It could've been the same premise of Felicity working wherever with a normal guy who uses her speciality, computing, to save the world. Remove vigilante from the fray and allow Felicity to choose between a more comfortable and frankly safe option of saving the city through her expertise in a legal way, in comparison to putting her life at risk saving the city in an illegal way. Have the emphasis on FELICITY'S choices, have Ray react to her instead of being hailed as king by Felicity. Have her try to balance the two or making the ultimate choice. Have conflict if she chooses balance through her having to bail on dates, be home infrequently. Then of course there is the added conflict of lying to her boyfriend, her considering telling him, him being uncomfortable with her working for a former mass murderer.

I mean crap there is fanfiction that gives Felicity more agency in her own frikin life. Just imagine the conniption fit Oliver would have if she brought a civilian into the foundry, not to help like Barry, but to pick her up for a date.

Of course this would require the writers to spend time on Felicity's story, not Ray's.

Edited January 27, 2015 by Limbo

[SonofaBiscuit]

LOL. Omg. Thankfully it's only an episode still and it hopefully won't be so obvious that it's her stunt double in the actual episode.

 

Actually, I was just thinking about that.  Those who watch, please let us know if it's as bad as the Ra's/Oliver fight scene. That one was really awful about showing the stunt double's face.  But, it should be fine considering it was hard to tell that wasn't KC in the photo.

Edited January 27, 2015 by SonofaBiscuit

[Guest]

Actually, I was just thinking about that.  Those who watch, please let us know if it's as bad as the Ra's/Oliver fight scene. That one was really awful about showing the stunt double's face.

 

Yeah, Ra's double was really obvious and you could also tell it wasn't WH during Thea's fight with the Arrow before she jumped off the balcony. And I also think you could tell that kicking plus ass shot of BC at the end of the episode wasn't KC but I don't think it matters so much when you can't see their face. 

 

Releasing an episode still of the stunt double when you can see her face just shows how much the CW promo department sucks. It's very clearly not KC. 

Edited January 27, 2015 by Guest

[KirkB]

I still want to know where the hell Thea jumped TO.

[apinknightmare]

I still want to know where the hell Thea jumped TO.

 

Right? Oliver didn't even go look over the balcony to check things out, haha. 

 

As for the fighting and stunt doubles, I don't pay one lick of attention to any of that, honestly. I've never noticed anyone's stunt double while I'm watching the ep as it's airing.

Edited January 27, 2015 by apinknightmare

[looptab]

The impression I got from MG tumblr spoilers (thanks tv echo for posting them frequently!) is that he is scared as hell of losing the Olicity part of the fandom. Must be a hard time for him, poor guy lol

[Password]

The Ra's vs Oliver stunt double was really obvious though. They didn't even try. Not to mention it was pure daylight with a snow backdrop. No wonder it looked terrible, no shadows to hide behind.

[tv echo]

Regarding the stunt double still, the face isn't that bad a match in a darkened room -- but if you look at her thighs and legs, it's obvious that it's not KC.

Edited January 27, 2015 by tv echo

[quarks]

Well, it's a similar situation to the pre-"Left Behind" promotion. Last year, the show announced that it would be having a five episode Laurel arc, and ratings went down. Then, Oliver hooked up with Sara, and ratings went down again.

 

This year, the show backed away from the initial announcement of a three (or four) episode arc for Laurel, and ratings didn't (initially) go down. So far, so good. Presumably now they want to avoid a repetition of the second part, too.

[SonofaBiscuit]

If MG is really afraid of losing the Olicity part of the fandom, he shouldn't say stuff like "you all will be so pissed at me that I'll have to stay off twitter for a while."  Really, what is he thinking?

[Password]

If he's afraid of losing the Olicity crowd he wouldn't throw ten "obstacles" at them before they get together.

[Morrigan2575]

Well, it's a similar situation to the pre-"Left Behind" promotion. Last year, the show announced that it would be having a five episode Laurel arc, and ratings went down. Then, Oliver hooked up with Sara, and ratings went down again.

 

This year, the show backed away from the initial announcement of a three (or four) episode arc for Laurel, and ratings didn't (initially) go down. So far, so good. Presumably now they want to avoid a repetition of the second part, too.

So, no Lunge 2.0?  Or there will be a Lunge but they'll lie about it until it's too late?

[SonofaBiscuit]

I will take a Laurel/Roy lunge purely for entertainment purposes.

[Belinea]

Maybe someone should be equally snarky and ask MG whether or not the epic BC storyline is epic because they switched to another actress... ;-)

 

I don't know if he is afraid, he seems to sure of himself but I do have to admit that if they have Felicity shut  Oliver down (I don't love you.... I don't want to be a woman you love....I am now more of a Ray Palmer kind of girl) I am not sure whether I want to stick around for more. This season has been so dark and made so little sense in some ways that I am seriously not as enthusiastic as I was when the season initially started. They managed to suck the joy right out of it. 

[Guest]

Hehe, it makes me smile when people still talk about The Lunge from s2. I wasn't watching the show at that point, I just marathoned it later, so it never seemed like a big deal to me. I can see why it is now though. I'd hate to see a Felicity/Ray lunge, although I don't think we'd see it. I mean, did we ever see a Tommy/Laurel love scene? I can't remember. Kisses, yes. Sex scenes, no. That's for Oliver as lead, I guess. 

Edited January 27, 2015 by Guest

[Sunshine]

Well IF Oliver is having nightmares regarding Felicity, I hope they don't involve Ray.

[Orion]

If MG is really afraid of losing the Olicity part of the fandom, he shouldn't say stuff like "you all will be so pissed at me that I'll have to stay off twitter for a while."  Really, what is he thinking?

 

Just by him saying that something will happen between Oliver and Felicity and that something will make fans mad is enough to get people speculating and tuning in.  And for MG's money talking and watching are enough. He doesn't care if the scene actually delivers or if people are angry after seeing it because that just generates more buzz for the show.

 

So even though he's not teasing anything positive it still gets him the results he wants. The one thing he has to prevent is, "Meh, what else is on tonight" and judging by twitter and tumblr people aren't there yet.

[apinknightmare]

Maybe someone should be equally snarky and ask MG whether or not the epic BC storyline is epic because they switched to another actress... ;-)

 

I don't know if he is afraid, he seems to sure of himself but I do have to admit that if they have Felicity shut  Oliver down (I don't love you.... I don't want to be a woman you love....I am now more of a Ray Palmer kind of girl) I am not sure whether I want to stick around for more. This season has been so dark and made so little sense in some ways that I am seriously not as enthusiastic as I was when the season initially started. They managed to suck the joy right out of it. 

 

I think she'll be honest about how she feels. I think we're in for an "I love you, but..." scenario.

[Guest]

As much as I can't stay away from spoilers, I actually wish MG would stop now. I know why he's doing it but I think it's more harm than good. He should maybe concentrate on making a show good enough that people will just turn in every week without these little crumbs he keeps dropping. I've actually stopped reading them all because something always annoys me and then later it ends up being not so bad. But for now I think he's just making things worse.

 

I think she'll be honest about how she feels. I think we're in for an "I love you, but..." scenario.

 

Same. I thought that since AK said something like 'she speaks up about how she feels but not in the way people think.'

Edited January 27, 2015 by Guest

[apinknightmare]

Same. I thought that since AK said something like 'she speaks up about how she feels but not in the way people think.'

 

Since she's supposedly "mad as hell," I'm guessing it's not a nice confession, like maybe she yells it at him because he's being a dumbass. Unless the thing she's mad as hell at doesn't have anything to do with her relationship with Oliver and is something else. 

[ban1o]

TBH the ratings for every CW show lunged in the spring  except for Supernatural. I wouldn't blame it entirely on Laurel's addiction arc and Sara/Oliver. 

Edited January 27, 2015 by ban1o

[chaos is welcome]

Regarding the stunt double still, the face isn't that bad a match in a darkened room -- but if you look at her thighs and legs, it's obvious that it's not KC.

Hahaha, and that's what I was thinking when I saw this...stunt double will be used any time it's a wide shot and we see her legs.

[WaitandHope]

I actually think MG has lost his mind a little bit with all these spoilers and fan interaction regarding spoilers. I'm curious has there ever been a show runner who has spent this much time on twitter/tumbler/fan sites before? I know Whedon and other writers dropped by a lot on Buffy's fan site, but this is just odd. He has fallen down the rabbit hole and can't get out.

That said, I am more hopeful than the many of you, I don't mind angst that makes sense for Olicity - and I guess I'm withholding judgment on whether it will make sense or not.

And jealous Oliver really is the best (I loved those parts of 208 and have been known to just cue up "they will card him at the bar' and 'mmhmm ' just for kicks) I'm happy he'll have lot of scenes with Ray. This is what I was hoping for in 3a.

Ohh Laurel. It makes little sense, but so much doesn't that I am suspending my disbelief and just going with it. I found her interesting in 310 and that was so rarely the case last year or in 306 that I'm willing to give this a shot.

Finally, and I think this will be an unpopular opinion, but I LOVE every crossover and appreciate they are doing so much on both shows and am very forgiving of it not always matching up exactly because I appreciate the ambition of a shared universe in episodic television.

On this board and The Flash board there seems to be annoyance of Felicity development happening on The Flash, but she's a GREAT character as given life to by EBR- and these show runners REcreated her and gave her life -- and if she pops up in comics, on Constantine and gets a mention on Gotham and Supergirl, it wouldn't be too much for me. Frankly, Arrow is about Oliver Queen and there's just not enough time to do this wonderful creation justice --and this show should never become about her but her effect and importance to Oliver and his journey. She works perfectly as a motivator of superheroes and a connector of verses - so her appearances on any other shows will always be welcome to me. Just sprinkle awesomeness and cyber tech bad assery wherever she treads with wit, slight awkwardness and fashion.

[SmallScreenDiva]

If MG is really afraid of losing the Olicity part of the fandom, he shouldn't say stuff like "you all will be so pissed at me that I'll have to stay off twitter for a while."  Really, what is he thinking?

 

It's an old trick producers use to get fans buzzing -- and right now this show needs all the buzz it can get. Not a lot of people seem to be talking about the 3x11 clips coming out. The Arrow tags on Twitter and Tumblr seem to be quieter than usual. MG is not the first producer to use it, and will not be the last. Friends who watch TVD tell me Julie Plec says the same thing whenever she wants that fandom to go nuts. And fandoms, predictably, respond with OMG and all the questions -- getting the buzz going. Will it really be as bad as he says it is? Probably not. Nothing MG ever says gets the response he seems to expect. So *shrugs*

[quarks]

So, no Lunge 2.0?  Or there will be a Lunge but they'll lie about it until it's too late?

 

No plot predictions here.  I just think Guggenheim's Tumblr is just trying to get viewers to tune in to 312.  They need at least one February episode to do well in the ratings.  The two episodes that follow that one are toss ups - one, from the title, is focused on Laurel and Sara.  "Birds of Prey" did well last year, but the other Lance family drama episodes, not so much. "The Return" is a mostly flashback episode - something that did great in season one, and bombed in the ratings in season two.  So based just on past seasons, there's no way to predict ratings for those two episodes, but if I were a CW executive looking at the numbers for "The Promise" from last season, and the plot description for "The Return," I'd be telling the showrunner to get out there and promote the hell out of episode 312 too and get people buzzing and speculating.

[looptab]

Just by him saying that something will happen between Oliver and Felicity and that something will make fans mad is enough to get people speculating and tuning in.  And for MG's money talking and watching are enough. He doesn't care if the scene actually delivers or if people are angry after seeing it because that just generates more buzz for the show.

 

So even though he's not teasing anything positive it still gets him the results he wants. The one thing he has to prevent is, "Meh, what else is on tonight" and judging by twitter and tumblr people aren't there yet.

 Exactly. Laurel is happening, and he is trying to lure them anyway he can. It's hilarious actually :)

 

I actually think MG has lost his mind a little bit with all these spoilers and fan interaction regarding spoilers. 

That, too. Hahaha

[Guest]

Since she's supposedly "mad as hell," I'm guessing it's not a nice confession, like maybe she yells it at him because he's being a dumbass. Unless the thing she's mad as hell at doesn't have anything to do with her relationship with Oliver and is something else. 

 

Is the 'mad as hell' spoiler about Oliver's return? I actually can't remember. Everything is kind of merging together into white noise now. I can see her being mad about the team wanting to team up with Malcolm but being mad that Oliver is back from the dead? Eh. There has to be more to it for me to believe that, and I'm sure there is. 

 

I do wonder what will happen to prompt this feelings talk though.

[MsSchadenfreude]

I don't think MG is worried about losing the Olicity fandom at all nor should he be, the majority of Olicity fans aren't going anywhere.  I consider myself a pretty big Olicity fan and while I have some issues with season three, Oliver/Felicity is not one of them.  I neither expected nor do I want the show to rush Olicity together just to get to happy times.  I spent two and half seasons suffering through romantic relationships that I had no interest in and that bored me to tears, now that I found one I am invested in why would I want to skip all the obstacles and go right to the end result.  And since I find the idea that Oliver/Felicity would just get together, no muss no fuss, completely unrealistic given what we know of these characters, I'm fine with some "will they or won't they."  If they are still dragging it out three or four seasons from now maybe I'll be fed up, but it's been barely half a season…that's nothing.

[apinknightmare]

Is the 'mad as hell' spoiler about Oliver's return? I actually can't remember. Everything is kind of merging together into white noise now. I can see her being mad about the team wanting to team up with Malcolm but being mad that Oliver is back from the dead? Eh. There has to be more to it for me to believe that, and I'm sure there is. 

 

I do wonder what will happen to prompt this feelings talk though.

 

No, the spoiler was that she'd be mad as hell at the end of 3x12 (IIRC). I don't know if that that has anything to do with Oliver's return or whatever talk they have though.

[Password]

I think people assumed the two are linked because Olicity will be angsty in 3x12.

[GirlvsTV]

Considering how MG tends to oversell stuff I'm expecting his 'mad as hell' is probably more like 'slightly perturbed'

[Guest]

No, the spoiler was that she'd be mad as hell at the end of 3x12 (IIRC). I don't know if that that has anything to do with Oliver's return or whatever talk they have though.

 

Oh, ok. Omg, I have no idea what's gonna happen. I'm kind of tired of guessing tbh. I'mma try a wait and see approach from now on because wondering is getting me nowhere but annoyed lol.

[looptab]

I don't think MG is worried about losing the Olicity fandom at all nor should he be, the majority of Olicity fans aren't going anywhere.  I consider myself a pretty big Olicity fan and while I have some issues with season three, Oliver/Felicity is not one of them.  I neither expected nor do I want the show to rush Olicity together just to get to happy times.  I spent two and half seasons suffering through romantic relationships that I had no interest in and that bored me to tears, now that I found one I am invested in why would I want to skip all the obstacles and go right to the end result.  And since I find the idea that Oliver/Felicity would just get together, no muss no fuss, completely unrealistic given what we know of these characters, I'm fine with some "will they or won't they."  If they are still dragging it out three or four seasons from now maybe I'll be fed up, but it's been barely half a season…that's nothing.

Yeah, I don't think he should be worried either. But it's just the feeling I got from this spoiler-fest that reeks of "Better give them something or else I'm screwed". Because, honestly, both the timing and the content are *suspicious*, for lack of a better word, IMO. 

I'm also in for the ride where Olicity is concerned, we missed a freaking summer, I want to see it all now! :) I was also slightly bothered by that "Say you never loved me" in the premiere, because that - just that line, and nothing else- seemed to come out of nowhere, as I wouldn't have thought Felicity would have said that,or even thought that, at that point. So, as long as they don't skip any other beats or put stuff not in line with the characters, they can bring it :) Even the ANGST lol

[chaos is welcome]

But they WILL skip other beats.

I fully believe Guggie on tumblr was to distract people from the TCA fiasco. Because people were livid about that. I saw it as damage control.

I do think that they really believe they can skip things that make sense over shiny new things, and expect the fandom to be forgiving about things about continuity and what makes sense. I DO think he should be worried, and if think the fans should be worried because they don't seem to care for continuity or character beats anymore.

I am starting to worry how far off the res they will go for felicity's reaction to Oliver not being dead.

[apinknightmare]

I think MG on Tumblr has more to do with getting people through the Oliver-less episodes than the TCAs. The TCAs may play a part, but I definitely think he's trying to keep people engaged and make sure they tune in this week and next. We'll see how much he's on Tumblr after those eps have aired. 

[looptab]

I see it as a Laurel's arc kind of  damage control.. But it could be both, all things considered. :)

[calliope1975]

I see it as a Laurel's arc kind of  damage control.. But it could be both, all things considered. :)

 

That just begs the question for me - if you have to do damage control or keep people engaged because they aren't responding to the stories you're telling, why not make better writing choices??? Don't double down on the worst elements in your show. 

 

And it's not that they aren't doing what I want so I'm mad, it's that the decisions are baffling to me. Sleepy Hollow lost me at the winter break and I loved the show last year. Arrow's walking a fine line. It's like they read all the criticisms over the summer and were like, 'oh yeah, you don't like that part? Let's continue to do that and amp it up by 100.' 

Edited January 27, 2015 by calliope1975

[chaos is welcome]

It could be that they really, really thought when they were conceptualizing this arc that people would love it. Then maybe the pic backlash over leaked photos made them go "um, uh oh" and things were already too far gone to cover up with other things. It's possible many of the "laurel centric" eps in the past were supposed to carry more scenes for her, but they ended up on the cutting room floor. Except this time they have backed themselves into an artistic corner by offing Oliver....it leaves a lot of dead space to fill.

[TwistedandBored]

Considering how MG tends to oversell stuff I'm expecting his 'mad as hell' is probably more like 'slightly perturbed'

 

LMAO!