Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Danny Franks]

I hope Ra's has some other game going. You don't bring in this character just to have him believe Oliver's obvious lie, fight him once, then disappear. He's extremely smart and dangerous and always has ~plans~ at work. Has there been any info about Matt Nable returning? 

 

 

I would say they brought Ra's in because they wanted to do an 'homage' to Batman's duel with him in the comic books. Like so much of Arrow, they just pinch stuff from old Batman comics. Did they originally think any further ahead than that? I wouldn't credit them with that much foresight, given how badly planned the first two seasons ended up being, in terms of unfulfilled threads and rushed plotlines.

 

They'll be figuring out how the hell to use Ra's (or not, as the case may be) in their season climax at the moment. But I wouldn't be surprised if Waller suddenly ends up being the big bad at the end of the season, after doing very little for the first half of it. That's just how these guys roll.

[calliope1975]

I would say they brought Ra's in because they wanted to do an 'homage' to Batman's duel with him in the comic books. Like so much of Arrow, they just pinch stuff from old Batman comics. Did they originally think any further ahead than that? I wouldn't credit them with that much foresight, given how badly planned the first two seasons ended up being, in terms of unfulfilled threads and rushed plotlines.

 

I know. I'm being optimistically hopeful which is rather unlike me. I don't know why I continue to keep hope alive when TPTB have let me down more often than not. It is a deep flaw that I'm still so invested in this show. Maybe it'll be a New Year's miracle and Ra's will be used effectively and the rest of S3's story lines will not only make sense but be good, too! I need some more spoilers to leak. Clearly, I've become delusional.

[ban1o]

Well there is that theory that he's been secretly behind everything that's happened so far to test if Oliver would be a suitable apprentice. That would be copying Batman, but  I guess it would at least use Ra's in a way that makes somewhat sense and in a way that was planned out.

[looptab]

From the article linked in the Only Spoiler thread:

 

Even though details regarding the plot are unavailable at the moment, these rumors confirm that the ‘Olicity’ chapter does not close right now. “I believe that there is a proper way of doing it. It does not necessarily mean that we will be doing it that way.” Marc revealed when enquired whether Oliver Queen is killed for good.

Is that referred to closing the Olicity chapter, or killing Oliver Queen  for good, or what?

Edited December 30, 2014 by looptab

[apinknightmare]

From the article linked in the Only Spoiler thread:

Is that referred to closing the Olicity chapter, or killing Oliver Queen  for good, or what?

 

Seems like it's in reference to whatever they're doing with Oliver.

[Chiny11]

From the article linked in the Only Spoiler thread:

Is that referred to closing the Olicity chapter, or killing Oliver Queen for good, or what?

I believe that quote was in response to a question about whether or not the show will incorporate Lazarus Pit.

I suppose Olicity was mentioned because if Oliver is dead-dead (which we know he is not since he is the star of the,show) there will be no olicity

Edited December 30, 2014 by Chiny11

[chaos is welcome]

From the article linked in the Only Spoiler thread:

Is that referred to closing the Olicity chapter, or killing Oliver Queen  for good, or what?

I have seen that quote in another article and it was in reference to the Lazarus Pit, not olicity.

 

Edit - Chiny beat me to it!!

 

It annoys me they are still trying to pretend he's dead dead. Come on now. If I really thought he was dead I would not turn my tv to Arrow ever again. I love Oliver's stupid face.

Edited December 30, 2014 by chaos is welcome

[Kordi]

Dear @chaos_is_welcome, couldn't Oliver be really dead-dead,.. and literally resurrected with the help of the Lazarus Pit? I know, this would go against Arrow's no-superpowers-rule, but as I understand MG's tweet that "there is a proper way of doing it [i.e. the Lazarus Pit]", TPTB won't stick to this rule in a strict manner. I don't like the idea, but I suspect that this is what is going to happen on the show.

[chaos is welcome]

Irregardless he isn't going to STAY dead.

 

I still really hope they don't go the Lazarus Pit route.  Because if they do, I will be forever angry no one called Nyssa the second Sara fell off the roof.  Plus, again, death already means so little on this show.  I'm in favor of him being nearly dead or us finally finding out what that thing on merlyns neck is for. 

[dtissagirl]

I'm calling 100% made up out of thin air on this article. The Guggenheim quote when googled only reverts back to the article itself. Which for me means made up, because the site looks like a vanity news aggregator at best.

 

ETA: plus, there is no image of Crazy Eyes in the suit making the rounds around the web, nor there is a video promo with numerous LoA members searching for Oliver's body [why would they even, they KNOW where Oliver's body is]. That's all BS.

Edited December 30, 2014 by dancingnancy

[looptab]

Thanks! The way they phrased it confused me for a second :)

[ban1o]

I agree the whole article seems made up

[KirkB]

There would be no real in show reason for them to call Nyssa when Sara was killed. Even if the Pits exist in this continuity, and assuming the League has phones they probably don't have the number, and more to the point it's likely no one but the League would know the Pits exist. That's the kind of thing they would keep a pretty closely guarded secret.

 

Most likely Oliver's just going to be critically injured and almost but not quite dead. If they have to do a more overt explanation it will probably end up being the special herbs the EP's are so fond of. At most maybe one called the Lazarus flower.

[Morrigan2575]

I'm calling 100% made up out of thin air on this article. The Guggenheim quote when googled only reverts back to the article itself. Which for me means made up, because the site looks like a vanity news aggregator at best.

ETA: plus, there is no image of Crazy Eyes in the suit making the rounds around the web, nor there is a video promo with numerous LoA members searching for Oliver's body [why would they even, they KNOW where Oliver's body is]. That's all BS.

It is not all BS it is a compilation of existing quotes and 1 mistake, 1 viewers opinion.

The Felicity crying was reported by TV Line - that is correct

The MG quote about the Lazarus Pit was from another article - that is correct

The comment about the ATOM suit, correct in that there is a photo of BR in thr ATOM suit floating around twitter. It is incorrect in assuming that it is legit in that BR confirmed on twitter that it was a fake

There is a promo that was released that shows a man in a parka on the mountain looking for (and finding) Oliver's body. The writer is assuming that it's the LoA, which it could be, or it could be MM if Barrowman's comment about filming a scene for 309 on a mountain.

[Chiny11]

Remember when MM showed himself to Moira after her trial in Season 2?

She was shocked he was alive. Telling him that "they said you were dead". MM replied that there are places in this world were "death is an illusion".

The above statement by MM makes me think that the fans who have said that MM will have something to do with Oliver surviving may be on to something.

Although I cringe at the thought of what MM will do Oliver (manipulation-wise), if he really is the one that saves him.

Edited December 30, 2014 by Chiny11

[Kymmi]

She was shocked he was alive. Telling him that "they said you were dead". MM replied that there are places in this world were "death is an illusion".

The above statement by MM makes me think that the fans who have said that MM will have something to do with Oliver surviving may be on to something.

 

 

Wasn't there a spoiler about the green vial that Malcolm now wears, which may come into play?  I was wondering if that was the part of the Arrow costume that Stephen Amell didn't want the fan seeing (and thus changed before taking a picture)  Of course, it's possible I made that up.  I had this great epiphany in a dream recently only to wake up and realize it made no sense whatsoever.  

[tv echo]

When I was compiling a list of comic con appearances by Arrow actors scheduled for 2015 (see Behind the Mask thread), I noticed that KC has three guest appearances from late January through February, which would coincide with her Black Canary trilogy or whatever.  But then she's also got three comic con appearances from April through May, and another one in June.  Does that mean Laurel's got another story arc coming up then as well?

 

Curiously, EBR, CH and WH have no guest appearances scheduled so far at any of the comic con websites that I checked for 2015.  Should we read anything into that?

Edited December 30, 2014 by tv echo

[apinknightmare]

When I was compiling a list of comic con appearances by Arrow actors scheduled for 2015 (see Behind the Mask thread), I noticed that KC has three guest appearances from late January through February, which would coincide with her Black Canary trilogy or whatever. But then she's also got three comic con appearances from April through May, and another one in June. Does that mean Laurel's got another story arc coming up then as well?

Curiously, EBR, CH and WH have no guest appearances scheduled so far at any of the comic con websites that I checked for 2015. Should we read anything into that?

Katie's always been really active on the con circuit, and EBR, CH and WH haven't. I don't think there's anything to read into any of it.

[Chiny11]

Wasn't there a spoiler about the green vial that Malcolm now wears, which may come into play? I was wondering if that was the part of the Arrow costume that Stephen Amell didn't want the fan seeing (and thus changed before taking a picture) Of course, it's possible I made that up. I had this great epiphany in a dream recently only to wake up and realize it made no sense whatsoever.

Your statement about an epiphany in a dream made me laugh.

[ban1o]

CH, WH and EBR never go to comic-cons so I wouldn't read into that.

Edit: lol apinknightmare beat me

[Velocity23]

I dont think KC was really active in the Con curcuit after the end of season 2.

[Morrigan2575]

I dont think KC was really active in the Con curcuit after the end of season 2.

KC started doing cons at the end of S2 April (Calgary Con) and did several over the summer Motor City, Chicago, the 2 in Australia and she's had several booked since the beginning of S3. The con's are not attached in anyway to the show, these are personal appearances for which she gets paid. I would not read anything into her con appearances other than she's looking to make extra cash. Edited December 30, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[Chiny11]

But apart from the "official" cons (e.g.ths SDCC), the network doesn't really have much to do with actors appearances in cons.

Actors appearance in the "minor" cons is usually an arrangement between the actor's team and the con organizers.

I found out about this this year when I was trying to understand why some Once Upon A Time actors didn't appear at certain cons.

For example, Robert Carlyle who is one of the top actors on OUAT does not like doing cons and he only attends the SDCC because that is the official con and attendance is required by the network.

ETA: Morrigan's post covered the same point I was trying to make :)

Edited December 30, 2014 by Chiny11

[statsgirl]

I get the feeling that EBR is still pretty shy about the fame thing. She'll do a con if there are other people with her (e..g. SA and DR in Chicago) or if it's a mandated PR thing like the European tour with CH but she won't sign up for a con on her own for the money.  (Given when KC has been saying in her appearances, that's probably a good thing.)

 

It's the same with Laurel. I don't understand Laurel's motivation, and I haven't bought KC's acting for two and a half seasons. I don't think a wig and a mask and all the buckles will make one iota of difference.

 

Contrary to what the CW PR department thinks, Laurel's rise to Black Canary has been a massive fail all around, from the writing (why isn't she looking for Sara's killer if it's so important to her) to the acting to the costumning.  Sara had to die to set the wheels in motion because heaven forfend Laurel actually wants to help the people of Starling City; Oliver has to appear to die to justify her putting on the buckles so soon.

  

Ra's motive was not Sarah.. It was Oliver placing his protection on Malcolm that angered Ra's, Sarah was the easy excuse to get Nyssa to turn on Oliver. In all honesty Oliver pretty much played right into Ra's hands with his confession.. For Ra's this ended being killing two birds with one stone - take down the man who is harboring the man who betrayed his ideals, and who supposedly killed his daughter beloved. Ra's is a tactical man, this created a double win both for him and for Nyssa.
Now whether Nyssa truly believes Oliver is the killer is doubtful.. I don't think she does.

 

I'm anticipaqting that the season will end with Malcolm fighting alongside Oliver against Ra's but Oliver is an idiot to trust either of them.  That's kind of this year's theme though, what an idiot Oliver is.   He was stupid to try to protect Malcolm from the consequences of The Undertaking and like the scorpion the turtle crossed the river on Malcolm stung him to death by setting him up to kill Ra's.  Oliver was also an idiot to think he could kill Ra's in a duel when he knew how good even Nyssa could fight.

 

Unless it's Nyssa helping to save Oliver, she's doing to be rather an idiot too, for letting herself be manipulated by her father like that.

[KirkB]

Oh, Malcolm is one hundred percent untrustworthy, as his treatment of Thea proves, but you don't have to trust someone to team up with them against a common enemy. Ra's is a big enough threat that Oliver can side with Malcolm for the sake of protecting Starling, while having Felicity and Diggle and Roy there to watch his back for when Malcolm inevitably tries to stab him in it. Unless it turns out Malcolm has actually been working with Ra's all along, which I have speculated, in which case it will probably be Team Arrow and Nyssa against Ra's and Malcolm.

[chaos is welcome]

I still can't believe Malcolm actually thought Oliver would beat ras, so there HAS to be an ulterior motive for the whole setup. I could really see the Malcolm/ras team up. Win win for all, ras forgives Malcolm his debt, ras gets rid of Sara for ??reasons (the heir reason seems plausible. Maybe he's a homophobe. Maybe he doesn't like that his daughter brought Sara in. Maybe it's because she dared defy him and leave the league. Who knows). But this would require Ras to have an interest in Oliver. Which it seems he does, we just don't know why (and what of Queen? From ep 4)

When Malcolm tried to finger ras to nyssa for Sara's death? I bought that.

I wish they hadn't gone to such ridiculous lengths to make sure Sara was dead dead. Laurel saw her die, carried her body, felicity did that virtual autopsy, they but her in the freaking freezer. I would love if she had faked her death yet again for some plot driven reason, to trick Malcolm or ras or something (anything) rather than her being dead and us being stuck w buckles

Edited December 31, 2014 by chaos is welcome

[Sakura12]

Laurel is Buckles the Inept Super Hero! That's her name and I'm sticking to it.

 

The Black Canary died in this universe with Sara. 

[SonofaBiscuit]

On his twitter, Guggenheim mentions that we met the Mayor of Starling City in episode 7 and we'll see her again in episode 11.  I don't remember that happening at all...

[Sunshine]

On his twitter, Guggenheim mentions that we met the Mayor of Starling City in episode 7 and we'll see her again in episode 11.  I don't remember that happening at all...

I saw the tweet.  Originally we were supposed to meet the mayor in 3.05 when the city was under cyber attack.  I think the scene ended up on the cutting room floor. 

[ban1o]

On his twitter, Guggenheim mentions that we met the Mayor of Starling City in episode 7 and we'll see her again in episode 11.  I don't remember that happening at all...

haha yeah I saw it. I'm guessing it might have been in the script but didn't actually make it to tv and Guggenheim didn't remember. I guess I'll wait to see her in episode 11.

[SmallScreenDiva]

Contrary to what the CW PR department thinks, Laurel's rise to Black Canary has been a massive fail all around, from the writing (why isn't she looking for Sara's killer if it's so important to her) to the acting to the costumning.  Sara had to die to set the wheels in motion because heaven forfend Laurel actually wants to help the people of Starling City; Oliver has to appear to die to justify her putting on the buckles so soon.

 

I can't believe I'm saying this (I'd blame wine but I'm drinking coffee) ... but it might be a tad too early to call Laurel's rise to Black Canary "a massive fail all around." Don't get me wrong, I totally agree with you about the bad execution — writing, acting, costume. But the episodes for her "arc" haven't come out yet and there is still the possibility — however small it may appear to many on this forum, including me — that viewers may actually embrace her in all her buckled glory. There already seems to be more positive reaction to the character since the show put her on the "hero" path. #justsaying

[tv echo]

The numerous buckles on the new Black Canary costume have been so mocked that I wouldn't be surprised if Laurel's costume got "upgraded" next season to reduce or eliminate the buckles.

[ban1o]

The numerous buckles on the new Black Canary costume have been so mocked that I wouldn't be surprised if Laurel's costume got "upgraded" next season to reduce or eliminate the buckles.

a lot of people do like her costume though. When it was posted on twitter it was favourited a lot.

 

Personally I think it's okay. I just wish it wasn't almost exactly the same as Sara's except with more buckles and no cleavage.

Edited December 31, 2014 by ban1o

[tv echo]

The EPs want the Black Canary to be viewed as a heroic figure and not as a figure of fun (a la Edward Scissorhands), I'm assuming.  So I think you have a problem when even television critics like Alan Sepinwall are asking "Why so many buckles?"  http://www.hitfix.com/whats-alan-watching/review-arrow-guilty-boxing-glove-arrow-time

 

But hey, I could be wrong.  The EPs seem to be loosening their original attitude of grounding Arrow in realism. So who cares if a superhero costume is impractical for quick changes.

Edited December 31, 2014 by tv echo

[Chiny11]

Are we going to see Ted Grant in upcoming episodes?

[ban1o]

Are we going to see Ted Grant in upcoming episodes?

in episode 12 IIRC

[apinknightmare]

I think a lot of those buckles are just for some weird kind of Edward Scissorhands-esqe aesthetic, and probably aren't functional. I bet she could slip into the costume and only need to buckle a few. That, of course, begs the question on why someone who will be fighting people wanting to grab at her would have so many parts of her costume that could get pulled on/snagged on something, but she's a DA going out at night as a vigilante and wearing fingerless gloves, so...yeah, I got nothing.

[Chiny11]

in episode 12 IIRC

Cool... Thanks.

[SonofaBiscuit]

All I have to do is look at the other 40,000 attempts to make Laurel relevant and think about the "emmy-worthy" acting to know that attempt number 40,001 will be an epic fail for me.  I'm over, I'm done, and I'll tune back in when Oliver returns, or when I hear a spoiler, any spoiler, that gets me excited about the show again.  But I am hoping that having more Laurel in the next four episodes means the rest of the season will be very light on the Laurel.  Not counting on that, but I am crossing my fingers.

[KirkB]

Functional or not Laurel is going to have a problem in that outfit. Besides the fact that if they are functional it would take her so long to get dressed the fight would be over before she finished you can forget about her being sneaky. I had a leather jacket with buckles like that (not nearly so many of course) and you couldn't so much as take a step without the metal making a surprising amount of noise.

Edited December 31, 2014 by KirkB

[apinknightmare]

Whenever we get actual video of Laurel in her costume, someone needs to make a gif of it with all the buckles next to a gif of Caitlin saying, "By the time (s)he gets there, it'll be over," from the Arrow part of the crossover, haha. 

[ban1o]

So i posted the official description of episode 10 in spoilers. Thoughts? 

Edited December 31, 2014 by ban1o

[tessaray]

So i posted the official description of episode 10 in spoilers. Thoughts? 

 

Sigh... looks so depressing straight out like that. 

[Chaser]

Honestly, I'm not seeing this big positive reaction to Laurel. It feels more like a 'at least Laurel is doing something now' as opposed to a'I'm so looking forward to this and KC/LL is killing it this season.' I'm not seeing a lot of people change their minds about the character and a lot of the reviews I read still seem iffy on the character. Of course, it could all change when the BC-Triology-That-Isn't is completed. The audience and critics may love it; it may not be nearly as bad as some of us are thinking it will be. 

 

Its kinda amusing. I've been reading past speculation on the Spoilers page and its amazing how wrong some of it was. Everyone was thinking Laurel would be insta-friends with Felicity/Diggle, that Laurel would be really involved with Team Arrow and some were thinking they would be building this friendship with Laurel and Oliver (possibly to reintroduce a romance between them while Oliver and Felicity are on the outs). A lot of this speculation is supported by the spoilers that were put out there - Great scene between Laurel and Felicity in Ep. 3, dynamic with Diggle and Laurel, Oliver and Laurel being in a really good place, writing Laurel with Team Arrow is a lot of fun. I'm not sure we have seen any of this on the show. I think it shows how much they can oversell things. And maybe how our own personal bias comes in (I know mine did).

 

I think the upcoming episodes with feature a lot of milestones for LL as BC, but it wouldn't surprise me if they originally over the sold the arc. I'm hoping one of the things they learned from the last two seasons are that all LL all the time can hurt the show and hurt the character so they find a way to integrate all the characters.   

[ban1o]

Sigh... looks so depressing straight out like that. 

yeah sounds depressing. I don't really want to see all the character's sad. I wonder if they will have a time jump in the episode or the time jump will come in episode 11. My guess if it will be in the episode. Also from that description it seems Team Arrow is the A plot and Laurel suiting up is the B plot. 

 

And honestly I hope someone clues Thea in. 

Edited December 31, 2014 by ban1o

[Morrigan2575]

Where do I start? Laurel gets "Black Canary" handed to her for no effing reason but Oliver has to earn Green Arrow...yeah she's not a joke at all.

There's no time jump which makes Laurel suiting up even more ridiculous. Lance still doesn't know Sara is dead will he find out when he sees Laurel running around dressed like her sister and using a modified version of her sister's name?

So after what 8 weeks of boxing lessons Laurel is going to go out, get her ass handed to her for 3 episodes and then what? Magically become competent?

Edited December 31, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[ban1o]

There's no time jump which makes Laurel suiting up even more ridiculous. Lance still doesn't know Sara is dead will he find out when he sees Laurel running around dressed like her sister and using a modified version of her sister's name?

 

I'm thinking that the episode will start 3 days after but there will be a time jump in the episode. 

[Password]

Oh Laurel. Gosh I just can't with that woman's motivation. She's suiting up. Sigh but OK she deserves a chance to make us understand.

[SmallScreenDiva]

Quick thoughts: So, not following real time, eh. I wonder if the show will now do a time jump after this ep to follow real time AND to explain other characters' "progress" in their fighting skills. ... I hope Diggle actually suits up as the Arrow. He's done it before. Because it will really be strange if only the teenage mutant ninja turtle in red is running around. ... That makes it sound like Felicity believes Malcolm; I sinceriously hope not. Praying she continues to "investigate" even after his news. ... Thea asks Malcolm for a favor? To find Oliver? Ugh! ... The last line about people trying out suits and picking up mantles — double ugh!

 

Edited to add quote marks to "progress" because I'm totally not buying what they're selling there.

Edited December 31, 2014 by SmallScreenDiva

[Password]

I'm thinking that the episode will start 3 days after but there will be a time jump in the episode.

I actually wish there isn't a time jump. I want to grieve with them in real time for a while.